Summer Re-Run: ASK US ANYTHING: Co-Parenting after a Divorce

Hello Brave Friends! This is an Ask Us Anything episode in which YOU, the listener, get to write or call in and, you guessed it, ASK US ANYTHING! 

In this Ask Us Anything episode, #189, we are responding to the question, Do you have any tips for navigating life with a disabled child after a divorce?

This is a VERY relevant topic for our community because the added stress of caregiving for disabled children is not known to help marriages last longer. Also two of our three hosts have been through divorce and continue to co-parent with their disabled children’s fathers. So we have A LOT of first hand experience and advice for this caller. 

In this episode we offer: important things to consider in the divorce process, ways to break the news to our kids and the realities of what co-parenting with your ex-partner can look like as the primary caregiver. 

Keep the vulnerable questions coming. We’re here to support you! 

We see you and we love you!

Whether you have questions as a parent to a child with complex medical or mental health needs or you’re someone looking to support a care-giving parent, we would LOVE to hear from you. 

If you have any topic requests or if you would like to ask a question, leave us a message here.

Find Dr. Zoe’s book, Stronger in the Difficult Places: Heal Your Relationship with Yourself by Untangling Complex Shame here.

Find more information about Life Coach, Susanna Peace Lovell here.

Find Susanna’s book, Your True Self is Enough here.

Find our first book from We Are Brave Together, Becoming Brave Together here.

Find our second book from We Are Brave Together, Suddenly Brave Together here. 

Find FULL episodes and clips of our podcast on Youtube here.

Brave Together is the podcast for We are Brave Together, a not-for-profit organization based in the USA. The heart of We Are Brave Together is to strengthen, encourage, inspire and validate all moms of children with disabilities and other needs in their unique journeys. 

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Feel free to contact Jessica Patay via email: jpatay@wearebravetogether.org 

If you have any topic requests or if you would like to share a story, leave us a message here.

Please leave a review and rating today! We thank you in advance!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Hello, brave friends! We are taking a short summer pause, but we've handpicked some favorite episodes from past seasons for you to enjoy while we recharge and prepare for what's ahead. We'll be back on September 1st, 2026 with season 11 of the Brave Together podcast, bringing you new stories, trusted experts, and practical resources to support your parenting journey. If these episodes have helped you, we'd love for you to share them with other parents, especially the ones that made you feel seen, comforted, or gave you helpful insight into the path of altered parenting. If you have questions, story ideas, or requests for future episodes, follow the links in our show notes. Wishing you all a very wonderful summer. And remember, Bravies, as always, we see you and we love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

For a mom who is maybe contemplating or in the process of going through a divorce, who has a child with special needs, I would encourage you to find an attorney who has some familiarity with that. Because there's never a stipulation for long-term care in your general divorce contracts. And so that's something that you really need to consider is the long-term care for your children and how you want that to factor into the divorce. That's really important for you, especially if you're the main caregiver.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Hello, Brave friends. Welcome to Ask Us Anything. I'm Jessica Pete, your host of Brave Together Parenting Podcast. And I'm joined by two fantastic fellow Brave Mom co-hosts to help answer your questions. Hi, I'm Susanna Peace Lavelle.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

I'm an author, a certified life coach and soul care coach, and an advocate for the health and wellness of disability families everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Hi, I'm Dr. Zoe, a licensed psychotherapist, writer, speaker, author, and complex shame expert.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

We are gathered here to share our experiences, share our wisdom, and answer your questions. Have a caregiving question? Find the link in the show notes to leave us your message. May you feel seen and heard and not alone.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Ask us anything.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

So I am in the process of getting a divorce, and I'm wondering if you have any tips for navigating life with a disabled child during and after divorce.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Hi, Dr. Zoe. Hi, Susanna. Welcome back to our next Ask Us Anything episode. And I appreciate that both of you will share so openly on this. I mean, we're always sharing, I think, openly, but this is a topic that specifically you two can address. So thank you for your willingness to just jump into a really hard topic and a very deeply personal topic and share both of your experiences. And before we get to that, are you surviving this week or are you thriving this week?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I guess I'll start. You know, in relation to the topic we're going to talk about today, which is caregiving as a divorced mom, I would say that I am finally in a place of thriving. And I've kind of hit my stride and really accepted where I am in terms of my status, my relationship status, and caring for my daughter as a single mom. And so yeah, I'd say I'm definitely thriving in that area now. Hasn't always been the case.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

I think right now for me, certainly same with you, Zoe, in terms of just sort of accepting where I am. I will share a fun little story from this week that I felt was, you know, a sign of my daughter and I thriving together. And that is this week has been a little challenging for her. And you know, sometimes it just helps to be off devices and just, you know, turn off all the external noise. And so I suggested that. And by suggest, I mean we're not gonna have devices. And I said, you can read instead. And she chose to read my memoir. And she sat down and she read the entire book, front to back, um, within a couple of hours, and she could not put it down. And, you know, what was so phenomenal for me is that she was asking questions about like, oh mommy, I don't remember that, but but things are different now, you know? And I I just felt like it was a nice little glimpse into her seeing her mother a different way of going through, you know, this journey without her even realizing all of the things that had to be put into place for her to be on this journey. So I thought that was beautiful. I've always wanted to make sure that she was okay with having her story out there. So that was very affirming. So I am I am a thriving mama right now. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

I love that. I love that. And you know, when we say thriving, it doesn't mean that everything is going well, but it's it's, you know, is there something that gave a special energy or helped you pause and be grateful? Is there, you know, something that you got to experience, or is there something that is adding to your perspective or your mindset or your mental health? So it there's a whole gamut here of what thriving means for us. And I think I think when you have an ongoing challenge in your life, you can appreciate the little things. And so when we ask each other this question, when we do these episodes, it doesn't have to be like some big, extravagant, big experience or big, I don't know, breakthrough or something that, you know, I did yoga every single day or whatever. You know, every little bit of thriving counts. So yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

So Jessica, are you thriving or are you surviving today?

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Yeah, I I would say that on this particular week, I would say I'm surviving through living with five of us, and not everybody always locks the kitchen as vigilantly as me, and it's driving me crazy, and I kind of have an attitude about that. So back to work on me and my attitude, but it's just frustrating when I walk into the kitchen and something is unlocked, and I don't care if you are in the laundry room nearby, doesn't matter if you leave the kitchen, lock it. If you're in the kitchen, lock it locked. I don't care. And you know, I heard this also. Um, well, I walked into the kitchen and it was already unlocked. Okay. Well, if you walk into the kitchen and you see that it's unlocked, it's not because Ryan suddenly doesn't have Prader Willie syndrome and now we are this free kitchen. If you walk in and see it, lock it. So rant over.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Oh my goodness. Thank you for that, rant, because that is my life. And I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one. Because when you have a family of all these people and all these working parts, keeping everything locked is hard. It's hard. Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. I feel you. I see you. I thank you and feel you in that for sure.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

And by the way, it is perfectly understandable why you would have an attitude. Because I would too, for sure. Yeah. Not even going to try to hide it.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Thank you. I might be holding grudges over here. Maybe. All right. So again, I thank you, Zoe and Susanna, for being willing to share about your own personal experiences. Susanna, why don't we start with you? Because I think it's not fresh as fresh for you. So maybe. Yeah. I yeah, I love.

SPEAKER_04 8:27

I love. What do I love about divorce? I guess, you know, what I'm grateful for in this moment is the camaraderie and not feeling alone, Zoe. So I appreciate having this shared experience with somebody who I respect and admire and can learn from and grow from and really have vulnerable conversations with. So that is what I'm grateful for. Okay, let me just say that. Um and I think the same is true for both of us that we didn't set off on this journey expecting it to be ending or continuing on in divorce. That was certainly not my intention or idea. And, you know, I my parents have been married for 53 years and they are very much in love and in companionship together through all of the ups and downs and the thick and thin. And so that was just my patterning that I saw. So I wasn't expecting that this was going to happen. And I held on for such a long time when I knew deep down that it probably was going to be the best idea for all of us. And so, you know, technically I have been divorced, like officially divorced, for about 10 years now. And maybe eight. You know, it took some time for the official paperwork to go through, but you know, it was a process. Um, and it was definitely not something to be taken lightly. It was a very big deal for me. Arizona was probably around seven years old at the time when we started the conversations around we're we're just not gelling what's going on here, you know. So I'm happy to share everything I've learned along the way in terms of co-parenting now in a different way and having a different life. Also, you know, for me, a big thing was sort of releasing the shame around being a divorcee, as if, you know, it's my fault and my fault alone. But, you know, we take on all of these characteristics and qualities. And so I'm happy to jump in.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Someone is at the phone. I'm realizing that I think I'm the only person home right now. And so Sally just got home from school and I need to go let her in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Oh, that's right. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Of course. Yes, yes. Arizona's by herself upstairs, and I was like, I am recording with Mama Jessica. This is my third um podcast recording today. So I was telling her I had support this morning, yeah, but this afternoon I had to switch assistance around because her dad needed help with something. And so anyway. So she's like, Well, what is the last one? I was like, It's with Mama Jessica, and it's only gonna be like 37 minutes. So she promised to be quiet for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

I love you, Zoe. Thank you so much. So Zo tell her thank you for the little sticker. I know juggling. Yeah, I know. And Kate was so sweet the other day. She was like, You do so much. When you're gone, I realize how much you do. Oh yes. Yeah, right? Yeah, and then you know, she's like, I wanted to make sure like the kitchen was clean and the laundry was. I go, mm-mm. Don't worry that everything has to be perfect. I don't expect that of you, but just try to keep up with the dishes, the trash, the feeding the dogs, you know, while I'm if I'm gone, you know. But I don't expect everything to be perfect. Just lock the kitchen, please. Yes, and she's the second most vigilant. After you. Well, after me. Your daughter? No surprise. That's good. Yeah. Um, by the way, when I went in between, mm-hmm. Yeah, it was unlocked. I mean, Ryan's not here. But I don't care. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Because what if he walks in without a a babysitter? What if she like says goodbye? Sometimes they say goodbye in the car and he walks up and in straight to the cupboard. Yes. And anyways, okay, let's move on. Back to you, it's so Arizona was about seven when you came to the realization or when you started talking about the possibilities of dissolving. That sounds so dramatic. Yeah. I mean, it's just what's the best what's the most sensitive way to say it, Susanna?

SPEAKER_04 12:47

I don't know if there is a sensitive way. I just look at it very literally, like because this was actually how Arizona was able to process it the best in a very literal way. And we had support with therapists along the way to help us with the languaging. But it's it's the wishy-washy, not knowing sort of that purgatory, you're in between, not, you know. And of course, there were there was that time too. But once we knew and Brian moved out, it was more of, you know, we were starting with, uh, well, he's traveling more. Oh, da da da. And finally a therapist was like, just tell her he has his own apartment, you know? And it because up until that point, every night she was like, Do I still have a daddy? Does my daddy still love me? Where's my daddy? You know, it was very confusing. And then, you know, that was hard for me too. But as soon as we said, Daddy has his own apartment, oh, good to know. We are going to take a brief break.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

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SPEAKER_04 15:34

So yeah. Right. So I was just saying I'm I'm so thankful for your camaraderie in this. Um, Dr. Zoe, because we've talked about feeling, you know, shame. Like we used to be invited to all of the couples' things, right? And now all of a sudden, it's like, can I still be your friend? You know, in a different way. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

So right after were there talks of how you were going to share the caregiving, Susanna?

SPEAKER_04 16:01

For me, it was an interesting, slow, very slow drawn-out process. I felt like there wasn't any black and white about it at all. And because I had been the primary caregiver up until that point with Arizona, it was almost as if that was sort of just understood would stay in place. And, you know, when we first decided to get married, we were both working full-time, you know, I had full-time jobs. And we had made the decision for me to stay home in the very beginning because, you know, I just wanted to spend some time with my new baby. And it ended up being such a great foreshadowing in terms of like planning ahead financially because of all of the needs that Arizona had right away as soon as she was born. And so obviously that stay at home period extended to the point where I still wasn't back to work at the time that we were talking about separating. And so it wasn't just again, it wasn't sort of like this black and white, okay, well, you're working and I'm working, and you know, everything is equal and the same. So then let's figure out 50-50. And actually, too, I mean, I really was, even as the primary caregiver, the most hands-on as well. And that's just how it was set up. And so it was different in that it was just assumed that I was going to stay the primary caregiver. But what I also naively understood is that, you know, sort of everything would be taken care of as if I was still being taken care of as sort of an intact, you know, wife and mother. Meaning financially, I was thinking, okay, well, I'm always going to be taken care of if this is the decision. And I just had no idea. I had no idea that that would not be the case. And so that was um, that was a big wake-up call for me and um very challenging for me. So yeah, it's it's been a journey. It's been a lonely journey and a very isolating one, especially at three in the morning when Arizona's perseverating about something and I'm just sort of there in the dark with her on my own. I mean, you know, there are so many things that happen throughout the day when it's just me and her, you know, because it's mostly just me and her. So that feels, you know, that feels lonely. And at the same time, Arizona's dad and I have had to come up with a different way of being in partnership together as co-parents for Arizona. And I can speak for him as well when I say that I'm really proud of how we have created a new normal for her and for ourselves. And that does not mean everything is perfect and goes swimmingly all of the time, but we have definitely grown and matured in the ways in which we have been able to communicate our sort of unmet needs with each other without us, either of us, automatically becoming very defensive, which is something I can access in two seconds, like being defensive, resentful, holding a grudge. Hi, that's me. And so I try to lean into okay, yeah, let me let me understand, let me take a breath and understand what's happening and why I'm being triggered, and let me see if there's a way I can just respond with questions instead of, you know, which can sometimes be my go-to. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

And would you say the greater challenge is that most of the caretaking falls on you, Susanna, or the greater challenge is the communication with your ex?

SPEAKER_04 19:31

No, the that has become less challenging. The communication part is is pretty solid. And if I feel like, or if one of us feels like the other one is is more disconnected, we we we talk about it, you know, or I'll say, you know, what's going on? Because I'm feeling fill in the blank. But the caregiving, you know, to be very honest, is something that I had always sort of been doing even when I was married. Just in terms of like just the bulk of the responsibility of cooking for her with all of her food allergies and taking her to her appointments. And certainly he's working full time. So I'm not trying to say that, and therefore he should have, you know, equally split that burden or responsibility with me, but it just was yeah, it just it was interesting because so many people, you know, when you tell someone that you're going through a divorce, and it took me a long time to even say those words, you know, I we were separated for such a long period of time until I was like, we're making the move to actually get divorced. People would automatically just have so much sympathy and I'm so sorry, and this must be so challenging. And I was like, Yeah, it's so challenging and hurtful. And I look for me, my ego was so bruised, you know, because it wasn't my idea. I'm like, who would want to not be with me? You know, I and so I really had to lean into that, but also I have to say, again, very candidly, it was actually easier when he left because then I didn't have to think about taking care of him and his unmet needs, and then thinking like, okay, but you're sitting on the couch. Why can't you help me with fill in the blank? Because when he wasn't there, and and by the way, I was doing it anyway, but when he wasn't there, I didn't have to have that. Well, why aren't you doing it? I didn't have to think about what he was gonna do or not do. It was I never knew for sure at what level he would be participating in the day or in what whatever was happening in the life at that moment. So in that sense, it sounds really sort of crazy, but it was it's been easier just to have to think about what Arizona's needs are and then what mine are in each moment, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

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SPEAKER_01 23:04

First, thank you for sharing, Susanna. And you know, you're 10 years out. I'm a couple of years in at this point. And so, and what I think I hope is helpful for our listeners is that I have a little bit of a different experience. And so I I'm very happy to share. My ex-husband and I were married for 29 years, and I got married when I was 19. We were together since I was 18, and so you know, we had what you call a very long-term marriage. And the same with you though, Susanna. There were years before when I kind of knew that this was coming, and I tried to do everything to keep it from happening. And part of it is wanting to avoid all of I didn't want to be a single mom. That title was just, it was just so scary for me. All of whatever the connotations are, you know, understood, and I didn't want my children to come from a broken home, and all of those things that people think about and the shame that kept me staying in a marriage that I shouldn't have stayed in. We have now been, I believe we've been separated about two years because my son, it was my son's freshman year in college, and now he's going into his junior year, but we've only been actually divorced because it takes a long time since last August. So we're coming up on a year now, next month, for the actual divorce to have been completed. And I can talk about the logistical things that well, first for a mom who is maybe contemplating or in the process of going through a divorce who has a child with special needs, I would encourage you to find an attorney who has some familiarity with that, with having a special needs child, because there's so many things that are different. Our kids are different, the whole process of what you're going to need long-term for that child. Because when you look at normally developing children, you know, at 18, child support's cut off and kids kind of go on, and maybe you can put some kind of stipulation for college, but there's never a stipulation for long-term care and your general, you know, divorce contracts and custody type things. And so that's something that you really need to consider is the long-term care for your children or your child with special needs and how you want that to factor into the divorce. That's really important for you, especially as the main, if you're the main caregiver. And then, you know, there's the custody issue too, because custody only lasts until 18. It's the same thing. And those are things you just have to kind of think about, especially me now with my daughter who's past 18 at this point, at just coming up in March. And you know, what I didn't anticipate because it just kind of went over my head, is especially with medical care, psychological care, all of a sudden, you know, when I'm raising my children, by the way, we had three adult children when we got divorced, and we had two minors still in the house, my my younger two daughters, and then my son, you know, he's an adult, but he's going back and forth because he's in college. But, you know, we had raised these children, and I had gone to 20 years of medical doctor's appointments and things like that, and no one has ever asked me to prove that I can allow someone to treat my child. And so all of a sudden, because maybe I guess I must have checked divorced or something on a form, all of a sudden it's like, oh, we can't treat your child unless you prove to us that you have custody, unless you prove to us that he needs to sign this and that. And I was like, what are you talking about? That was so disconcerting to me. And it's another layer of work, of paperwork that needs to get done just in order to get your child treated, which was so difficult for me because this was the same child that I've been taking to the doctor for 18 years or six was 16 years or 17 years by that point. And now all of a sudden, I can't take my child to the doctor without some permission or somebody to see some type of custody agreement. So those are things to consider that I had never considered in, you know, in the divorce process and what happened with divorce. So I was the one that asked for the divorce, and my ex-husband did not want to divorce, but it needed to happen for a number of reasons that we definitely don't need to get into here. And, you know, regardless of whether you instigate the divorce or a spouse does, well, I'll talk to a woman who maybe has chosen to divorce because sometimes when that happens, there's a sense of, well, you wanted this. So why are you complaining? This is what you wanted, right? When you're dealing with all the difficulties. And the reality is nobody wants divorce. Nobody. Nobody goes into marriage thinking, oh, let's, you know, let me let me think about my divorce. And so people have to divorce for various reasons, or people make the choice to divorce for various reasons, and it's usually not because people just want that, it's because people figure out there's no other option, healthy option, right, for a relationship. And so I just want to honor a woman out there who might be feeling like, well, I asked for this, so I deserve all of these things that are going on for me right now. And the answer is no, you don't. It's part of the process, and just because you requested the divorce does not mean that you deserve any of the fallout that's happening right now. My ex and I, you know, we're newly into this divorce, and what I understand and working with clients and other people over time is that things do get eventually hopefully more like what's going on with you, Susanna, where you can actually have conversations and work together. That's not happening in in my relationship. And my ex was never really involved in my daughter and her special needs care, and that's continued, and he's even way less involved, and so I do very much consider myself I am a single mom doing everything on my own in all of the ways, and it's hard, it's hard. And that first year, you know, I'm into the second year now because the first year was a separation, but was just a really huge painful transition, you know, it just is. And there was something I was going to say about the single mom aspect. Oh, I know what I was gonna say. So my daughter doesn't really have much contact with her father at all. There isn't a lot of interaction. I think maybe they've seen each other a couple of times over the past year. And so I think the hardest part of being a single mom with a child with special needs is really forming a sense of identity around what that means and what that looks like, and dealing with your own sense of loneliness in the process and learning to accept a new normal and allowing yourself to grieve because any loss, grief has to happen. And so it's so important that we don't try to skip those steps and go straight to I'm okay and go straight to all the logistical stuff, but to be able to allow yourself to grieve and to know that no, I didn't want it to be this way, but I do have a new identity, and how can I stand up strong in this new identity? How can I show up for myself? How can I find my people and how can I show up for my child in a different way now with making sure I'm getting all of the help? Because, you know, even when you have a spouse that doesn't help, he's still present in some way, shape, or form. If it's like I had to run to open up a door, I had to stop this podcast and interrupt myself to go open up a door because there's no one else there, right? And that was one of the hardest things for me because in the marriage, I remember feeling so alone and feeling like I'm doing everything and I'm so alone. And then when he was gone, it was a sense of wow, I was doing everything, but still there were little moments when he could do something like open a door if some if you know Sully came home from from um from school. And sometimes even just having someone and your partner who has gone down this road with you and just knows that you can even unload on sometimes, that's not there when you're a single mom. And and it's okay to honor that. That that hurts, and it's not how as it should be, but it is how it is now. So yeah, that's been that's been my journey.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

How do you, either one of you, protect yourself from getting bitter and holding a grudge about maybe what your exes are not doing or not participating or not helping, whether it's emotionally or logistically, or you know, I'll take Zoe every other weekend, or I'll take Silly every other week, you know, kind of a thing, and that's not happening at all. You know, you're doing like 99.9% or 100% of the caretaking. How do you make peace with that? What would you say to any any of our listeners? Because it would be hard for me to be radically accepting of that.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

It would be I uh you know, there is a saying by I believe his name is Jerry Dopolski, and that is regarding forgiveness. And his definition of forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past. And I think the answer to that is acceptance. And that's what I see as when we talk about forgiveness in that way, because like you said, it would be hard to be radically accepting, but what other option do you have? You can be angry and bitter and resentful, and you can sit in that and you can project it all over, or you can decide that you're going to give up a hope of something different. And when you allow yourself to give up that hope of something different, and this is where I do resonate with you, Susanna, because you talked about being in a relationship where a partner is not helping you is so much harder than when they're not there and there's no other option. And yeah, it's painful and it's lonely, but when we are able to accept the reality of what is, and instead try to find the joy, try to find the small little pockets of happiness, then we're living a life that we should. And so, as hard as it is to think about forgiveness, as hard as it is to think about not being resentful, it's harder to sit in those places of resentfulness and bitterness.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

Yeah. What about you, Susanna? Yeah, no, I think that you know, we feel it in our bones. I think it it really affects our physical health. Certainly our mental well-being, our emotional well-being. And so my intention is to always sort of bless and release whatever comes my way. But I feel like it is cyclical for sure, because I can be in a really great place. Uh, you know, things are going well, communication is phenomenal. We're kind of on a schedule where I can, you know, understand that Arizona will be with her dad at various times, and then something will shift. And it will shift often at the last minute. And so then I am left like scrambling to sort of figure it out because I'm the figure outer, right? And so I have had to simmer down the bubbling up of that resentment that I think is not fully resolved, you know, right? That is certainly I do so much work around having compassion for myself and therefore having compassion for him and his situation and what he's going through and what he needs and how I can be supportive and all of the ways that I'm grateful for the ways that he supports me in raising Arizona. And it's not just like all of a sudden everything is kosher. And by the way, Jessica, I don't think I've ever used the word radical acceptance for what I'm going through. I mean, it certainly there's a big spectrum, but I feel like some days I am more able to access, like you said, Zoe, just like acceptance. I mean, this is my life. This is what is real and true for me right now. And it's not always going to be the case because things are shifting and changing. I don't know what Arizona's future is going to look like. I have no idea. But what I do know as she gets older, I can lean into other adults and individuals who I trust, who Arizona trusts, that can be supportive in a way that could maybe fill in the place for a partner. You do you know what I'm saying? In different ways, right? And so I try to just focus forward. And some days I have to scream into my pillow. That's why I have girlfriends. That's why I have brave together mamas who see me that I can just vent and scream. And then I then I'm good. Then I'm done. And by the way, no one's ever gonna hold that against Arizona's dad for any reason, for anything. I just need to vent and and release and write furiously in my journal, you know, and whack a tennis ball, whatever it is. You know, I have a toolbox of supportive things for me. But really, there is always such a learning in it for me of why am I being so triggered. Susanna, what is going on? Right? What is really underneath all of this? Because it's really prickly right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

I'm glad that you talked about the triggers because when it comes to acceptance, of course it's a journey and there's a million detours along the way. And I think in health, we should always work on trying to walk towards acceptance. But I know for me, my triggers of resentment come when there's something going on with the kids that you would normally share with a partner. And whether it's really good things, like my daughter is getting this award on stage, and I struggle with feeling like, why should I share that with him when he's not there for any of the other things? Why does he, you know, why should I? And I know that that's that's part of my resentment, you know, bubbling up. Or when I need to take my daughter to the ER, do I contact him and let him know? Oh, I'm taking her to the ER. And those are things that I've struggled with over this year because part of me feels like, well, if I'm doing this all on my own, then why should I be reaching out to him to share all of these, you know, big things? But I have been given advice that I'm supposed to do that as the mother of his children. And so I do. But for me, that is a big resentment trigger, I think, is going through that process, especially because we do not communicate well. We are not in a place where we can have that level of communication, and usually sending off a text like that is just gonna create more trouble for me, if that makes sense. So that is my struggle. And if any woman's out there who's dealing with that, you are not alone.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Can I just say thank you both so much for sharing so openly and so honestly and just being so transparent about your experiences? I know this is going to benefit somebody who's listening. Somebody needs to hear.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Is there anything that you wish somebody would have told you when you first started going through the separation or divorce?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

You know, it's the things that you hear, but you don't really hear. It's kind of like when your children are little and people are like, oh, enjoy this space. And you're like, yeah, this is great. Um and you know, you get older and you start to say that to younger women, or you want you want to say that to younger moms. I think it's hard to really hear it until you're you're in it, but it's about your children because what's hard when you're in a place of divisiveness with your spouse or partner, their their their parent, is to really stay grounded in remembering that your kids love both of you. They do need both of you, that they see you both in the best light. And your job in this whole divorce process, as you are in sometimes often contention with the partner, is to kind of hold your children in a sling of comfort and do the very best you can to remember that these little ones are half, you know, of each of you. And sometimes that's hard. Sometimes that's hard, especially when you're, you know, doing everything and taking care of everything, and the other partner is, you know, getting praised for doing nothing. And there's just sometimes a lot of pain in that. And so for a woman who's going through it, I would just like to remind her too that no good deeds go unpunished, and your children, your children will grow up to see all the things that you are doing and all the sacrifices that you are making. And you don't have to put them out on a megaphone now. You living your life is the only megaphone that's necessary. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

That's so good, Zoe. That's so good. I wish I had some of that wisdom eight years ago when I was going through this. But I realized also too throughout this journey, and certainly not so much early on, but now that I'm, you know, some years out of it, sort of, you know, hindsight looking back, is that we are really, even if we feel like we don't have any control in our life about anything, ultimately we are responsible for our own narrative. So we can tell the story in any which way, shape, or form that we choose to sort of share our story. And for a very, very long time, I held on to, well, he left, right? And technically, logistically, ultimately, yes, he did actually leave. And so I hear, you know, I've had conversations with people and and moms and dads and everyone who will oftentimes be talking about the hardship of divorce and being a single parent now. And I'm thinking, wow, that must have been so hard for you. Sounds like you just went through this like last year or two years ago. And they're like, no, no, no, it was 15 years ago. You know what I mean? And so to me, that is just ouchy for them because they're so holding on to this story and it must be so painful and hurtful. And so now I just want to be able to just, you know, move forward. It didn't work out, things didn't work out the way that we had planned, and we are moving forward. And so, but that's something that I really had to work on for myself because I very much wanted to lean into the martyr mentality of like, woe is me, you know, I'm a damsel in distress. Um, and so, you know, I felt like that was not supportive or helpful for our daughter. And now she sees two adults who are, you know, thriving in a different kind of relationship and partnership than what was originally intended. So I just have to keep saying, What is my story right now? This is my story, and my wish and my intention is to keep moving forward and feeding my soul with the things that are supportive for me.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

So good, so good. Wow, what a fantastic episode. And we went way, way over. So it was, but there was just so much to talk about. There's so many, so many really good things, important things and heartful things that you guys shared. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

And again, as always, you know, we see you, we love you. If this episode resonates with you in any way, shape, or form because of what you're going through, what you're about to go through, what you've already been through, just know that we deeply care and feel free to reach out to us, leave us a message if you want to talk to any of us. Thanks for listening. Bye. Thanks so much for listening today. Do us a favor and leave us a review and a rating so that this podcast can get into the ears and the hearts of more and more moms. Did you know that Brave Together Podcast is an extension of our nonprofit organization? We Are Brave Together. We Are Brave Together serves an international community of caregiving moms, offering support groups that are virtual and in-person, educational resources, and low-cost weekend retreats all over the United States. We've also published two books. Our first anthology of caregiving stories entitled Becoming Brave Together, heroic, extraordinary caregiving stories from mothers hidden in plain sight, and our newest release, Suddenly Brave Together. Letters to Caregiving Moms at a defining moment in their lives. Both books offer stories of hope and transformation and encouragement and validation for every parent caregiver. To join us today, go to WeARBravetogether.org. Our support and sisterhood awaits you. Brave Together Podcast is for entertainment and education purposes only. It's not a substitute for professional care and should not be relied on for medical or mental health advice. The use of any content on our podcast, links, show notes, or on our website is to be done at your own personal risk. Please take out a professional to assess your own medical or mental health concerns because we are all beautifully complex, and the content of this podcast is for a broad audience.