The Hunt for Spirits

Hunt for Spirits is an episode dedicated to exploring the fascinating world of premium spirits. From small-batch bourbons and rare single malts to artisanal rum, tequila, mezcal, vodka, gin, and emerging craft distilleries, each episode uncovers the passion, craftsmanship, and history behind every pour.

Whether you're an experienced collector, hospitality professional, or simply curious about discovering your next favorite bottle, Hunt for Spirits delivers entertaining conversations and expert insights that celebrate the culture of fine spirits.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to our second episode of Salmon Sommer. I am Floyd. And I am Aaron. So today we are going to talk about the hunt, but not wine. We're going to talk about spirits. And we had this conversation that Aaron has transformed. He's gone from Mr. Wine to all of a sudden. Mr. Corona. Mr. Corona. Seriously. We will be lucky if we get to episode three.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

We just got a text. Well, you did. I did. It is spreading. So hey, wherever you are, whatever you're drinking, stay safe out of the time.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

So that's why we're doing you're going to have nothing but time on your hands being stuck at home in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

So any dr anything we talk about, get it delivered. Don't go out to get it and uh stock up.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

So what we're going to talk about is hunting for spirits. Um, like I said, Aaron has transformed from wine lover to bourbon whiskey hunter. And he is on this whiskey bourbon kick. If you follow him and follow him on Instagram, everything is No, that's not true. It's mostly true. That's true. It's like 95% true. I said recently. Recently. Recently. Okay, fine. Recently. Alright. So he's recently on this kick of bourbons and whiskeys. So today I thought would be a great time to talk about this. Why do you have this desire and this drive to find these bourbons and whiskies that you can't find anywhere? Because I can, Floyd. Well, besides that, that's quick and easy. We can't end the episode like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

No, um so within the store, we mostly have wine. And that's that's just a fact. Uh, but we have a nice little section of hard to find or kind of independent labels of whiskey, tequila, gin, vodka. Uh my biggest problem with wine hunting is you have the bottle that you have been looking for. Okay? In this case, uh, we were just talking about the Chateau Lefon Rocher 2005. You can't really find these bottles out there, you have to kinda really make an effort to find them. But what happens when you actually find them? We just killed about a quarter of the bottle, maybe a little bit more. A little bit. A little bit more. A little bit. But what can we really do to preserve this? It's we either have to kill the rest of the bottle, or it's gonna go bad within a couple days. So, one of my friends loves bourbon. He just got into it maybe end of last year, and I was kind of silently mocking him, saying, you know, what? So you drink whiskey, you get a little hammered, you're done. But he kind of told me that there's this whole other world out there of people who are hunting down bourbon as if it was as rare as some of the wine that we talk about. So I would just kind of say that bottom line, it's something you can collect, try a little bit of, re-cork, and then always come back to. Sometimes they can stay for a year, two years before you really kill it. And I like the idea that it's almost like an interactive hunt or collection.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

So you like the fact that it's actually something you can try, you can drink, and you can preserve it a little bit longer. It has a longer shelf life once you've opened it.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

That's one facet of it, but yeah. I also like the fact that uh people are going nuts over it right now. If you remember, it's still going on, but craft beer was really hot for a while. People that would actually drive out to uh different breweries and collect different types of unheard of craft IPAs. Actually, the first time I met you, you thought I was trying to sell you one of those.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, I definitely did.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

But uh what I like about this is just the fact that uh people out there are going crazy over these. And the distilleries and companies that are releasing them are allocating them in very small amounts. So I like the fact that I know how to get certain bourbons that people just are either A, not finding, or B, are spending three times the amount for. And shaking his head because he's like, Oh, it's just whiskey, bro.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Well, I've always said what the difference between me and you is like you're a collector, right? You love collecting these things. Uh-huh. I'm a person that just loves drinking these things. So I don't look at bourbon and whiskey as like this, you know, this investment. Like I always say, Man, why is it so hard to get that? It's impossible. Like, why is it impossible? Why is it so tough? Why can't I get my hands on it? Owning a store, I can't get my hands on a bottle of blands, but a total wine could, or a wine library, the bigger chain stores. So I've always said that. And then I would always say, I remember back in the days I had blantons, and it's just it's a it's a good bourbon, it's good whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Why don't we try some today?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Well, this is what I was gonna get right into. I you know, Aaron, because he is the Indiana Jones of uh finding all these things that you can't find anywhere, he actually has a bottle here of Blanton's.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Ah, but read the sticker. For those listening.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

So single barrel select. So, explain what that is.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So, Blanton's is a single barrel bourbon, meaning that they're not actually blending different barrels together, like say Buffalo Traces. This is all coming from one single barrel, but in this case, what often happens is the distillery will say, Hey, uh X store. In this case, what's the name of the store that tracing No, you have to look in the sticker.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

The sticker in the middle bottled for Bourbon Street, wine and sparrows.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Okay, so Bourbon Street, they have about I don't know, they have like ten locations. But this is in Clinton, New Jersey, and they invite Bourbon Street, about four or five people from the store, to come out to Kentucky and they'll say, Here's let's say three different samples, which means here's one barrel sample, here's another barrel sample, here's another barrel sample. They all try them and they come up with this consensus of what was the best sample we had all day, and then essentially that distillery will say, Here, this barrel is for you based upon your consensus. So what you're getting is a store pick based upon the majority voting for the best possible barrel that they tried that day. And what's what's unique about that is everybody thinks that it all tastes the same. But what people don't realize is that, you know, depending upon where the barrels are stored and how they're stored, they tend to taste different. So uh it just makes this a little bit more unique and a little bit more enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

That's interesting. It's we've had this conversation, we've talked about this before where it's exclusivity. Exclusivity. So it's more of like, because Aaron called me, he's like, Floyd, you gotta do this single barrel. This would be a cool idea for the store. And I'm like store pick, yeah. Yeah, and I'm like, oh well, that's interesting. You know, it'd be nice to get it done. I think to have something exclusive for the store would be awesome. I think it would be a cool treat to have people, you know. We go out there and we s taste three different barrels, four different barrels, and we said, you know what, this is gonna be just for unwind, just for my store. And, you know, bourbon and all these spirits, you know, kind of drives me crazy in a way. Just makes me nuts. Why? Because it's not like wine. I feel like you're programmed to be contrary to shit that I like. But no, it's not that. It's more of like I look at it from a business standpoint. Like, what amazes me about spirits is something like a blend. Excuse me, rep from said company. I would like to order a case.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Well, we can't give you a case. Why not? Well, it's allocated. Who's it allocated to? Oh, it's allocated to this restaurant or this bar or this uh bigger store that's a retail store. Well, that's not fair. Why can't I, you know, get a get give me half a case. Give me a bottle or two, I'll sell it. Well, we can't do that. So I've always felt like The victim. Not the victim, no. I don't want people to feel sorry for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I I I think that you're uh go about in pity for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

I don't want people to feel sorry for me. Okay. I just think that because we've always said, well, spirits are very straightforward. The taste profiles It's not so again, uh it's I I'm you to this. So am I? Why are you cutting me off? I'm explaining myself. You're cutting me off before I even got to the point. Go ahead. So let me finish and then step in. Okay, go ahead. Just kill it. But that's what annoys me about spirits. It really bothers me because it's it's become like this thing of you can't find it, but you can find it, but you can only get one bottle, but you can't find it here, you can only find it there, and it goes for this price, but is if it's hard to find, why is it so cheap? It should be everything should kind of work together, should be in like a nice symphony. That if something is so hard to find, like a blend, any barrel, not even a single barrel, just a blends bottle in general. If it's hard to find, so why is that the bigger chain stores? Why is it only, depending on where you live, a certain price? Like in Jersey, what was it, sixty, sixty dollars or sixty-five?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

So again, it's based upon allocation. Fact is is that I think the rule is that a lot of places do have them, but a lot of the places that carry them regularly say, Well, because we know how hard this is to find, we're gonna charge you, say, a hundred or one twenty. Really, this is a sixty dollar bottle. Okay, and it used to be back when I was younger, back when you were younger, you know, five, seven years ago, you could walk into a store, grab like six of these at 50 bucks a pop, and nobody cared. I mean, nobody cared about the little horsey on the top, right? Nobody cared. So we're and again, I cut you off because I think that it's just it's a bold-faced lie to kind of say that the profile is the same on these because, you know, try this against the mellow corn, two different things. Now, I will say there's better bourbon out there than blantons. Uh, part of the Blanton's appeal is exactly what you kind of chase for other products in the store. Why will people buy it? Why do people want to buy Blantons? Is it because the taste is so amazing? No. Look at the bottle. It looks like a mini decanter. And then it has a little horse stopper. People go crazy over this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But I think that people are buying it mainly for the fact that they can't get their hands on it.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, it's it's the can't get in policy.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Exactly. You watch South Park years ago.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Well, Carbon Carbon inherits a carnival or or a th um amusement park, and he wants the amusement park just for himself, but he realizes that in order to keep it open, he has to hire people and he has to allow people to come in to make money off it. So he allows people in very sporadically or one at a time, and other businesses love the fact that he goes for the whole you can't get in policy. So with this, I think that most places, even chains like Total Wine or Bottle King, they get six at a time every two weeks, and they fly like that. I think where you learn something from this is when you show me bourbons that I've never seen before. Like I like you gotta see some of the whiskeys and bourbons that this guy shows me. I have never seen them in stores before. I have never heard of them before, but he says, you know, listen, what do you think we could sell? What do you think people will like? And I said stuff like Kinsey, stuff like uh whipsaw. You don't see it out there. I mean, Kinsey especially, you won't see that anywhere in New Jersey.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Because you got you have to be in the business, you have to be very selective. Like when it comes to spirits, it's a huge investment. Right. It's a lot of money to invest in uh any any spirit. So, you know, as we have talked, I've always told Aaron, because Aaron will come and say, Floyd, you gotta try this, you gotta bring this in, you gotta bring that in, you gotta think about bringing this in. So one day I just shot him a list of like, I think it was like maybe 20, 25 bourbons and whiskey. It's fun. Just check these out, man. And it was like Canadian, it was, you know, from the States, and it's also from uh Japan. I think I I just talked to you about the chip uh the Japanese ones, but I sent them all these and I said, you know, it's it's a it's such a difficult process to pick something that one you can't find at these big chain stores, two, that people will get excited about that'll come to my store because they're excited that Floyd has this bourbon from let's say Maine. You have to get the people excited. So what drives me crazy about the spirits market when it comes to like these brown spirits is Man, you know, it's such a hard find, but you can find it, but and you're gonna pay a certain price, and it's gonna be a cheap price. No, to me, it's like what if it's so hard to find, it should be a little bit pricier, right? That's me, and that's my thinking. I uh that's the way I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Okay, so let me ask you a question. Let's just say that you like this. Yeah, like, and I and I know that like by your face, you're saying, oh, listen, it's whiskey, it's fine. It's whiskey, it's perfect. It's fine, right? But let's pretend that you looked at this the same way that you looked at certain wines that you really love to enjoy, right? Uh not knowing the actual price of this, what would you say you'd be comfortable paying for this by the bottle? If just looking at the bottom? No, just knowing that you like it. Like, screw the bottle. This this is about like if you if you actually enjoyed this whiskey and you said, I don't care how hard it is to find, I want at least one or two in my house.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

I think the price is at that 60 mark. I would say that's a $60 bottle. Just looking at it, just I like it, I would say 50, 60 in between there.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Okay, but say that you knew how hard it was to find this stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

And you knew that like if you had to if you found one in a store and you never saw them in stores, yeah, how much over that 60 mark would you pay if you were a fanatic? Like if you if you were actually obsessed with this where you said, if I find a bottle, I need to get it. What price point would you cap yourself?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

If it was something where I was like, you know what, can't find I I've had it, loved it. Smoothest bourbon I've ever had. Made you feel young again. Made me feel younger. Made me feel like I was back in college. The glory days. It's I would say, you know what? I can't find it anywhere. It's hard to find. Yeah. You know, I would maybe go up to like 80, 85, okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I would say I would go there.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Okay. So I have a friend who's in Virginia. It's apparently harder to get in Virginia, which I'm surprised about, than it is here. He said he paid 150 for this. I said, You're out of your mind. And he said, I'll give you 200 bucks for two of them. And I said, Okay. Now, again, the whole purpose of this episode is to say that I kinda know that there's a certain method or way of getting this whiskey. And it's not about buying the whiskey, it's about buying the whiskey at its price, not at 100, not at 120, like our friend at 4709.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

But I I get that. I I I trust me, I understand that.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

But he thinks $100 is a bargain. And that's what makes me laugh my ass off. That's why I love this, because you're not seeing this with wine. You're not seeing this auction that's happening in real time. It's not as exciting right now as say this. This is like a liquid commodity right now. But that's like toilet paper.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, but it's it's it's like TB. It's but this is what's it this is what amazes me. Like wine, you know, it's people are expecting I think and that I think this is what drives me crazy as owning a store and being a business person versus just being a person that just goes out there and buys stuff. It's like why why do we downplay? Why do we put things in a certain per like in a certain way where it has no value? Like I feel like if you're drinking something as like a blend, which is hard to find, we're capitalists, it should be higher. But I understand your point as a collector, you're finding the best price of it, and you're looking and you're hunting, and you're gonna find that price that speaks to this is how much it should be. It goes to my example of how much you've changed. So I follow you on Instagram and you're very welcome at Chosen Vine at Unwind Boutique. But you've at Summon Summer too you've transformed into this guy that is the the customer that I used to always talk about that would come into my store. So, like let's say I had D B, you could say it. D B. So let's say I had something that you know retails for a lot less, right? Because being a small wine store, you know, you have to charge a certain way, you have to make money in order to pay the bills. And the customers would come in and see something and go, Oh, well, I can get this down the street. So I always try to avoid that by finding new things. You can't find everywhere. So the customer would come in and say, Oh, you know, down the street or this over here, I can go and I can find it for this price. It's much lower. Ten bucks, you're charging five bucks more. You know, so Aaron had this thing. He's, you know, Mr. Instagram, he's always posting pictures and always posting, you know, conversations. So he posted a picture of, I think it was Bland's. Or he wanted to get us, what was it? You wanted to get your hands on Bland's, or you had a picture of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Quick little recap, this bottle that we're having, because you're such a good guy, Floyd. Uh, this was the first Blantons that I ever found. And it was the store pick, so it makes it kind of special. But since then I've gotten like four or five other bottles. Yeah. And the I think the latest picture I put on Instagram was just me showing off. And like, oh yeah, no one to add to the collection because uh see see the slow transformation.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

The cockiness. The cockiness.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

I get it, yeah. So that's what I put on Instagram recently, and then I posted a picture of wine from your store.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

But I mean, no, no, no, no, no. You're trying to I'm fairly you're you're you're going over it. So my the story was so he posted this picture and he's like, you know, I'm looking for you know more blends. Kind of like I'm still hunting, I already have like 15 in my house. I'm looking for more. And you post it on Instagram, and somebody responded, Hey, why don't you shop at our store? We have it, we have it.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

We've got tons!

SPEAKER_01 20:49

We got tons, we got boxes of this, and then all of a sudden, Aaron writes back in his you know I was very polite. Nice way of no thank you. I don't pay that kind of price. I pay this price in Jersey. And I said when Aaron came in to the store, I was like, you know, you're turning into the the customer that we always used to talk about that would come into the store and complain about prices on wine and spirits and this. You're you're turning into him. And Aaron gave me this soliloquy of like why he's doing this now, and he's not gonna pay this price, and he's not gonna do this, and he's not gonna do that, and Belantin should be for sixty bucks and only sixty dollars. So I said, Aaron, you're turning into this person that I've I've never seen before. And now all of a sudden you're the person that wants it for you. Expect a certain price now, any store you go to. It's like a virus, it's like coronavirus.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

It's um let's talk really quickly about Pappy. Yeah. Okay, I I don't want this to be the Blanton's forum because I want to talk about how this relates to other stuff out there. I believe that Pappy 23, which is the really sought after one, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah. It's the one we were talking about before.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I think that's like it used to retail. And I think that if you won a lottery with Total Wine, the suggested retail price is two fifty. Which again, I've never spent two fifty on a bottle of whiskey. I know you haven't. Oh no. Okay. I think the most I've ever spent is maybe like one ninety on a bottle of blue label. Yeah. Because I was just that curious.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

My problem is I drink it too quick, so that's why I don't invest. Like, and when it comes to bourbons and whiskies, anything like that, I just don't spend it because I just drink it too quick.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

But why don't you tell people how much Pappy23 goes for on the secondary market? How I'm not talking about total wine or bottle king, but how much does say the liquor store down the street sell for in their glass case?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

See, that's that's the funny thing, is everybody is different. Like I had a a person, random person, come into my store and just say, I'm trying to sell this Pappy Van Winkle. You want to buy it? I said, This is when I first bought my store. I was like, uh Well, I want I think he wanted like 1300 for it. And I said, 1300 for it. I was like, are you kidding me? I was like, who would buy that? You could have flipped it for a thousand dollars more. I but at that point but at that point I was like, I'm not buying thirteen hundred. Uh who am I gonna sell that to? Lo and behold, I learned more about like Pappy and like the older bottles and how much they go for it. Like uh we were talking about I I don't even know. I couldn't even sit here and tell you how much people charge because it's I just never look for it. Like, what is it, two grand? What does it go for? I've seen it as high as three grand. I but I mean to me that's crazy. I can't even find it on my website that I look for when I order. I don't even it's not even there.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

No, it's and that's why also you want to go even further with that. Weller. Weller is owned by the same company as you know Pappy. They're not oaked or they're not aged like Pappy is, but people started catching on that Weller is like the poor man's Pappy. So I do think that's do you think that's a trend that's gonna just catch on? I mean, I'm telling you right now that I when we were at Vin Expo, I was in the city. In New Jersey, you cannot find Weller at a decent price. I've seen them at like 200 bucks per bottle. It's a $20 to $30 bottle. I got one for $65 because I said, you know what? Screw it. I need to see what this is all about. Yeah. But apparently, to get that $20 to $30 mark, you gotta go to Ohio to get it. And the problem is there's sick people out there that will drive to Ohio to get that at that price.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Hence I'm talking to one.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yeah, you're talking to one right now. But Aaron, where are you? I'm in Ohio. The name of the game is that as long as they keep on producing this, as long as they keep on allocating this, the price is only gonna go up. I mean, Buffalo Trace Distillery, which produces this, the the Blantons, they just announced the $1.2 billion expansion at their distillery. And they are also implying that they're going to release an average man's bourbon, meaning that the Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, all the other stuff that they're known for making, that's gonna stay at the same price or shoot up in retail value while they try to appeal to the people that don't care, like you, by saying, Here's something more tangible.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

I I think that this is taking into a shape of its own.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

So you're thinking it's it's gonna take off. You're thinking you're thinking collect now, hoard now like sanitizer. Hoard it, hoard it. Sanitizer. Grab it and make sure you stock it up because you never know the apocalypse comes and you need your bourbon and your whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Listen, man, three months from now when this coronavirus is still spreading, Chef Boyer D's will mean $20 a can.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

So that's what you're so that's what you're really trying to say. That's what it is. It's collect it now, collect it now, sell it later. And sell it later.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

And you know what? If there's a quarantine coming in your area, you have some good bourbon to try.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

You gotta you can't just have wine every day. You gotta mix it up.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And you know, it just goes without saying that. I think that, you know, there's points to everything. I think it goes back to the point of wine, it goes back to the point of spirits. I think it's it's like collecting wine. If you see something, collect it because you know you just want to try it and have it. Right. And I think that it's just it's a it's such an interesting market, man. It's so funny. It's just the I love the way one time you can have a spirit that is the same spirit. 60 bucks somewhere else, somebody's trying to sell it on eBay for like, you know, 120 or more like that. So it's just such an interesting market. That's why I said spirits, it's kind of like French wine, it just drives me crazy because there's something always changing about it, always something evolving, and you never can get the right grasp on it because it's always changing, you're always learning something new. So that's why I I think like your hunting and your you know your your love for brown spirits now is like just the funniest thing I've ever talked to you about because I just think you've evolved. However, though you've grown up, boy. I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Um You're my boy, Blue. I I think that I think that uh you should though take into account that there's trends. Next month it'll be tequila, the month of that it'll be craft vodka. Learn what people are throwing themselves in front of cars for.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I think you're right with tequila. I think tequila is going. I think vodka is kind of just like it's just gonna end. Yeah, it's always like it's always straight. Yeah, it's always shooting straight. Everything else, it's gonna start trending up. Um, but it's just a very interesting thing to talk about. Yeah, um, so alright. Well, listen, we got your point of view, we got my point of view. We have more to talk about, but this this isn't the end. I'm I'm done with this conversation actually. All right, so thank you very much for listening to our podcast, uh Sam and Summer, and we will talk to you soon. Bye bye.