77: Behind the Bars - Prayers & Executions - Interview w/Larry Peoples

This episode doesn't just chronicle Larry's experiences, it delves into the heart of what it means to uphold justice in one of the most challenging environments imaginable. He shares vivid details of the 'death watch,' the procedure leading up to executions, and provides a sobering glimpse into the complexity of enforcing the death penalty. Larry's personal connection to the topic through a family tragedy brings an intimate layer to this discussion, one that offers a rare blend of professional duty and personal introspection.  He also shares his well known Correctional Officers prayer, used in many correctional officer memorials.

If you would like to Contact Larry lepkmp@gmail.com

Larry's Book - Execution Day Journal https://www.amazon.com/Execution-Day-Journal-Larry-Peoples/dp/1499199759

The Mock Riot https://www.mockprisonriot.org/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:43

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Speaker 1: 1:37

Well, hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. My name is Mike Cantrell and today I am with a gentleman that a lot of you correctional officers probably know, but you didn't know that you knew him. His name is Larry Peoples. He's actually the author of the Correctional Officers Prayer, which I've seen. Actually, I've seen it listed as unknown author. I didn't know who it was until you contacted me and but it's been everywhere. I've seen it used at memorials. I know you'll tell us a little bit more about that, but you've had a long career in corrections and I'm excited to get you here on the podcast and talk to you.

Speaker 2: 2:15

Well, thank you, Mike, for inviting me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Absolutely. Now I always kind of have the same format. I like to. I like to hear how people got into corrections and how your, how your career built, and won't you tell me about where you grew up and how your life started?

Speaker 2: 2:31

Well, here, living in Florida, I'm actually a native Californian and I left my father retired from the military when we were in California and so we moved to this little town here One stoplight at the time. But he retired from the Navy here in Florida and he moved this and I was 16 years old and you talk about a culture shock moving from Southern California, where we were living in San Diego, to this little home, this little small town. It was quite a culture shock. It was 76 or 77. And here I am, a California boy with puka shells and a flowered shirt and long hair, and coming to this little bird here, I was kind of like a fish out of water.

Speaker 2: 3:19

So, yeah, so I I finished high school here and went back to California for a couple of years and it really didn't feel like home anymore. So I came back to Florida and that was in April of the 81. I graduated from high school in 79. And my father at the time was working at Union Correctional. It's the old Raiford prison. They used to call it Raiford prison.

Speaker 2: 3:45

Okay, okay, he was working there he says, boy, go get you a job down down the street, you know, across the river, at FSP. And I said, well, okay, I'll go try it. So I go in there and I get a job, and it's all good. And I stayed there for 10 years and did various things. So what?

Speaker 1: 4:04

did he do? What did your father do in the Navy before he retired?

Speaker 2: 4:10

He was a storekeeper so I had all kinds of good stuff. You know Marine Corps knives and web, you know the coral shoes and all kinds of good stuff he brought stuff home for me.

Speaker 1: 4:22

How'd he fall into corrections, do you know?

Speaker 2: 4:26

Yeah, he had some former Navy friends or Navy people that told him hey, go go to Union Correctional and go to Department of Corrections. It's a good job and pays well and it's a good retirement. So he went to Union CI and got a job there and he worked at the warehouse. So he really wasn't an inside officer. He wore an officer's uniform but he really wasn't. So he worked with minimum, mostly minimum inmates. He's whole career.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Sure, sure Okay, but that was kind of your introduction to corrections.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Yeah, that was my introduction to corrections. Yeah, so my whole career, tell me about going to work there.

Speaker 1: 5:03

What was that like? What did you expect and what did you find when you walked through that grill? I knew nothing about corrections?

Speaker 2: 5:11

Absolutely nothing, except what I've seen on television and I walked through. If you know anything about Florida State Prison, it's designed it's a central hallway and one end of it is like 11 housing units on one end and in the middle with the called Times Square that's intersect together.

Speaker 1: 5:30

Okay.

Speaker 2: 5:31

And then on the other end is the clinic and it's about a quarter of a mile from one end of the hallway to the other end of the hallway and the reason I know that is because I've run that before.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Sure and.

Speaker 2: 5:44

I've been from confinement up to medical and from medical back to the confinement unit. And so the first day, of course, they bring us out to the administration building, we fill out paperwork and they tell us yada, yada, and so we're all walking in together as a group and you come up to that first door that opens up and you hear that motor and you're okay, that's fine, that's cool. And then there's this thing behind you, clang, and you're like, hmm, okay, that's going to be different. And then you go through another door and then another set of doors.

Speaker 2: 6:20

I was stepping through the gate, as I was saying, and I looked down in central area, central part of the hallway and what they call Times Square, and I looked down the hallway and I see nothing but corridor and bars and blue uniform people marching in line and mopping. And it was like, okay, okay, this is real, this is no BS, this is no movie, this is the real thing. And I'm like, okay, you got to make up your mind, you're going to do this or you're not going to do this. And I did think about it for a second and I'm like you know what? Yeah, I think I'm going to do this, I think I can do this.

Speaker 1: 7:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:05

And the guy behind me. Funny because the guy behind me, he looked down that same hallway and he said I ain't doing this.

Speaker 1: 7:13

Yeah, I'm not doing this?

Speaker 2: 7:14

Nope, nope, I'm going back outside.

Speaker 1: 7:17

Glad he figured it out then.

Speaker 2: 7:18

And he did exactly because I wouldn't want him to be the one to have to come save my butt. And he right.

Speaker 2: 7:26

So that was my first day walking around, basically taking a tour of the place, and it's Florida State Prison is designed where you have. At that time in 81, when I started, we had six open population wings. Each wing had 96 inmates Okay, thanks for the chat, sorry about that. And then the remainder five wings was or confinement units and at that time our wing was just the only death row we had, we, but we had some on S wing.

Speaker 2: 8:01

But, mostly was our wing, and that was 102 man. So, okay, so, and then, of course, q wing was the Wing that stuck out on the end of Florida State Prison, and that's where the worst of the worst in the state and the death house was on the bottom floor. Fsp there with the electric chair sure and so that's when we're still using electric chair, and so that's what we had. We had outside, we had towers, of course, guard towers, all on the outside perimeter.

Speaker 1: 8:37

How many years were these housing units? Just so I can get it in my mind. Were they multiple tears for five, or was it one or two?

Speaker 2: 8:44

It was three, three, okay three tiered and the Everything was on the second floor. Total, total wings. Let's see you present sounds.

Speaker 1: 8:52

I'm gonna.

Speaker 2: 8:52

I'm gonna count here JKLM and PQ, rs, t you the W13 wings. Okay, 13, there were 13 wings, yeah, and 1500 inmates oh 1200 yeah, we single man, single man cells.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Okay.

Speaker 2: 9:13

Yeah, so, and it was full all the time we had to, we had to, you know. We had the bluebird bus would have to bring in and bring out because we got to max and at that time department was under a quarter or we couldn't have so many over capacity and all that so sure. So that's what. That's what the FSP was we had. Each wing was its own. Basically Within a wing we had, like I said, we had six open pop wings, so we had about 600 inmates in open population.

Speaker 1: 9:43

What surprised you the most? What was the? The thing that was hardest to get used to stepping from civilian and to be in a correctional officer in there? The way, was it? The violence was it? The way? The? The manipulation was it? What did you see that was most surprising for you? I?

Speaker 2: 10:04

Grew up in San Diego with a lot of gang violence, so I've seen, I've seen people stabbed so that wasn't really a problem. I mean, I haven't seen him stabbed 67 times like one guy did.

Speaker 2: 10:16

But Uh, uh, it is that you know that the constant working you you're as a side of his officer, they're trying to try to get something from you, or work you, or asking questions about this and about that, trying to get a Handle on who you are and how you are and what kind of an officer you're going to be. I mean, it's constant and they all work on you.

Speaker 2: 10:36

You know it's all all different people, but they're all work on you, trying to find out, figure out who you are and whether you're going to give them what they want or whether you're not going to give them what they want, or whether you're going to follow the rules or not follow them.

Speaker 1: 10:46

So yeah, yeah, I'll agree with that. That was the hardest. I I don't think I'd ever experience that level of manipulation, you know, and and it was constant, I think that was the hardest thing on me. Um, you know, new staff don't understand the value that's placed on information inside. So if they can just get tiny bits of information that gets sold around the institution, uh, to people who want to set you up or who want to manipulate you, or or get a little bit from you, and it may be nothing more than just you know your favorite NASCAR driver. Well, now that inmate that wants to manipulate you, he comes up and he says oh yeah, you like this guy in the races, don't you? And now you've got something in common and I think that's something I wish they'd have talked to me more about. Uh, I mean, I made it through, but, uh, I wasn't ready for that. You know what I'm saying, right? How?

Speaker 2: 11:38

was your academy. Oh well, back in the back, as I say, back in the day old days, in 81,. Uh, I was, uh, we didn't go to the academy right away. We went to, we were on OJT, on the job training.

Speaker 2: 11:51

Sure and I guess that's the department's way of saying was this person gonna make it? Was I gonna waste any money on this guy before I sent him to training? So I was. I was, uh, on the job for Almost a year before I went to drink, to training To learn about being a correctional officer and by the time I'd done that On the school I knew pretty much. You know everything about that building.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Sure uh so they were just basically teaching me, teaching me book stuff, and of course you know it's important that you learn the law and you know the rules and all that sort of stuff. But Back there in 81 and 82 the department of corrections in the state of florida added Initially it was 360 hours, that was it 160 hours and you could be certified. And then Two years later they added an additional 160 hours of officer training.

Speaker 2: 12:43

So In 83 I had to go. I worked 12 hour days. I worked four days at school and then I went to the, to the unit and I worked the fort and midnight shift and I did that for Six months trying to get the other 160 hours to be certified. Wow, so that's how they did it back then.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:06

So, yeah, that's, that's what we did.

Speaker 1: 13:08

Interesting now, uh, in florida, our correctional officers down there, peace officers, are you law enforcement?

Speaker 2: 13:16

Uh, you mean with the rest powers?

Speaker 1: 13:18

Not.

Speaker 2: 13:19

Specifically. I mean we can arrest any inmate, but as far as going out, to going out of burger king and or a right in a ticket or anything, that we can't do that.

Speaker 1: 13:27

Yeah, limited arrest powers yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:28

Yeah, yeah, we're still consider.

Speaker 1: 13:30

There's a lot of talk about that going on around the country because, uh, more and more places new jersey, california, of course have been ahead of that for a long time. You know those, they have full, uh, police powers, full arrest powers, and then you've got other places where they they don't have any. So I think that's a discussion that's coming to the head more and more these days is how we're going to go forward with Correctional officers. Uh, you know, I don't believe I know for so long and you saw this because it was your era too but for so long they tried to make corrections part of law enforcement. Well, you're part of law enforcement, you know, and my vision is we're not part of law enforcement, we're part of the justice system. You've got, you know, judges and courts, you've got police officers, and then you've got corrections and we're our own entity and I think we need that respect for that, that own entity.

Speaker 2: 14:27

So part of your go ahead. I always like to say that I was talking about first responders and all this other stuff and I'm like you know that's great first responders. I said but you never about correctional officers, first responders? And my answer to that is we're not first responders because we're already there in the middle of it, so we're not responding to nothing, we're there, yeah yeah, absolutely, so we don't get the bonuses and the discounts and all the crap oil that goes on the inside, so we don't worry about that Excuse me.

Speaker 1: 14:56

So death row was one of the places that you worked there fairly early on. Yes, what were your? What was your thoughts about that? I mean, I dealt with some death row at Missouri State, Pen, and it was wasn't something I thought about before I walked through the door and then you have to deal with the fact that you know the state is mandated to take this person's life. Did you have any thoughts about that, or?

Speaker 2: 15:23

First of all, the potential for something to happen to you, to be killed anywhere, would be death row, because what do?

Speaker 1: 15:32

they got to lose. What's another death sentence?

Speaker 2: 15:34

They can only kill you once. But as a rule, the quietest place to work in, the most not full of a bunch of stuff going on, was death row. Because they all, they all had a television in their cell, they had a radio in their cell.

Speaker 2: 15:52

They got canteen privileges every day, so they were pretty quiet and laid back and it was a pretty easy duty to be on death row, work on death row. Now you always had to be, of course, vigilant, as anywhere you go. But I mean, we had some famous, famous serial killers back in the day when I started, you know Bundy and an artist tool and Gerald Stano and Jesse Taffero and people like that, you know there.

Speaker 1: 16:20

So yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:23

But yeah, death row was one of the easiest, quietest places I worked.

Speaker 1: 16:29

Right, right. Did you ever, did you ever move into being part of some of the executions?

Speaker 2: 16:34

Yes, I got to be. When you're a CEO, you get to do a death watch. You sit in front of the inmate cell down on bottom floor cueing it's called death watch. When they sign their warrant, they either have, they have between 30 to 60 days of of when their warrant is active and you have somebody sitting down there in front of their cell cell cell front monitor, it's called and you sit there and you note everything they do they eat, they sleep, they, whatever they do. You write it down and you're there the whole shift and you, whatever they go they go inside the prison to the medical department. You follow them, you go with them with the logbook and you logbook and you log everything they do. And I've done that before many times sitting there in midnight shift or whatever. When I made Sergeant I got to be a van driver.

Speaker 2: 17:25

I got to do with the grill gate monitor, which is the Sergeant down on the bottom floor cueing who watches the officer. I also got to be part of the execution team.

Speaker 1: 17:36

Wow.

Speaker 2: 17:37

And my last job there at FSP for the last, I'd say, about three years was I had the keys to set to the bottom floor cueing, so I was the one who had all the keys to get in and out and from the front to the back of it. So, I actually let the executioner in and walked them over to where they, where they were, where they sat waiting for the execution, had what they call executioner's lounge.

Speaker 1: 18:02

Right.

Speaker 2: 18:03

So it's a little room with a couch on it, and so that's what I did for about three years my last three years at FSP I left there in 91.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Okay, any any hesitation with death penalty cases, I mean, or is that just? I know my own thoughts, but was that just a job, is just what you were mandated to do and that's, that's the end of it, or did you ever have any problems doing that? I guess thoughts no.

Speaker 2: 18:33

I. They put themselves there, okay, and the law said that if they did certain things, heinous crimes, that they were going to die, right, and it wasn't my job to judge them or whatever. It's my job to watch them. I'm not their, I'm not their savior under keeper, and so I just whatever the law said was fine. And the irony of that, mike, I don't know if you know this, probably don't Later on in my career, my, my middle brother, killed four people in California.

Speaker 1: 19:06

Wow.

Speaker 2: 19:07

And was on death row in California, in San Quentin, and he was there from gosh 2001 until 2021. He was there for 20 years. He hung himself in his cell. Wow, he just couldn't take it anymore. Yeah, and he asked me well, what about your brother? What about your brother? He's on death row in California. I'm like you know what? My brother murdered four people and if it was time for him to go, then it was time for him to go, and that's what the justice system says, and that's what the law says, and I love him and I'll miss him. But you know what it's, that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 19:44

I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it because it's my brother.

Speaker 1: 19:47

Yeah, so wow, that's a that's an amazing story right there to be on both sides of that. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:56

Yeah, my poor mother.

Speaker 1: 19:58

Absolutely, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:00

Florida. Yeah, a correctional officer in Florida and a death row in California.

Speaker 1: 20:07

Yeah, that's that's. That's a hard line to walk there, absolutely, and you have to face a lot of probably your own beliefs, very, very bluntly, I would guess.

Speaker 2: 20:20

So if anybody, if anybody wants to look it up, it's Lewis James Peoples. That was my brother.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Hmm, excellent. Um, so you mentioned you made Sergeant. Um, were you from the time you went in? Were you looking at some point to go into leadership, or was that something that developed as you were in there and you started looking that direction?

Speaker 2: 20:42

Well, I wanted to be a Sergeant and because Sergeants get all the good jobs, okay, you know I get to. I get to do pretty much what I wanted to do supervise, walk around, and you know I'm not tied down in a particular area. And so you know I wanted to make Sergeant. Everybody wants to make Sergeant and should have stayed a Sergeant. I made Lieutenant. I said to myself I should have stayed a Sergeant. That was the best job I had was a Sergeant.

Speaker 2: 21:06

So I did that in 85 and made Sergeant 85. And and that's when I was able to join this Dessert Team, corrections Emergency Response Team, which is like a SWAT team. So I was able to do that and do all the death house things. That's the rank you have to be to be able to do all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 21:27

So yeah, oh, okay, interesting. Yeah, I just talked a couple of episodes ago. I talked about being part of a team and how important that was to my career and how important I think it can be to other people's career. I tell rookies, you know, when you come in, as soon as you can get on a team, no matter what kind it is, do it, because not only do you get the chance to get more training and have that camaraderie, but it keeps you focused more having that group of guys around you. Tell me a little bit about the being on a team with that mean a lot to you also.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, it was great and for me coming from California as an outsider and. It took me a while to get their trust okay, but once they knew that I was gonna be there when I needed to be there to take care of them, to protect them, and Then it was all good you know it didn't matter where I came from. After that, I was one of them, yeah, and so once I became one of them and one of the one of the group, one of the guys, and It- was a great.

Speaker 2: 22:40

I've never had closer Family. Sure and then those guys you know.

Speaker 1: 22:47

I mean we work together.

Speaker 2: 22:48

We we went to riot squad training and search training and all kinds of different things together. We we went sell extractions and it was. It was a good experience and I miss the some of those guys, because some of them are dying, they're dead, they're, they're gone.

Speaker 1: 23:03

I miss them absolutely, absolutely. So Tell me a little bit about you. Said you made lieutenant, now did you? When did you leave Florida State Penn? I?

Speaker 2: 23:16

Left FSP in 1990, 1991 and I went down to Martin CI which is down in Martin County near little town called Indian town. Okay and it just opened up down there and it was what we called, in correction slang, the Wild West. It was a bunch of jitter bugs and it was wild. It was. You know what I'm talking about is why it?

Speaker 2: 23:38

opened stabbings on the year on the red yard stabbings and the housing units. Just brand new place opening up and they needed some experience down there. So I went down there and I stayed there for four years.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Yeah, they open up those new joints and that's usually when every other joint dumps whoever they're having problems with exactly right, that's what happened.

Speaker 2: 23:57

Yeah, I got stabbed twice down there too. So I mean, I've been stabbed before up here but and scalded, cut you name it, but that's, that's part of the job. So I stayed down there for four years and, and and the opportunity came for me to make lieutenant in north, back in North Florida.

Speaker 1: 24:16

And so that's where I went.

Speaker 2: 24:17

I went back to, went up to Putnam correctional, which is in Putnam County, and Made lieutenant up there. And you know it was different for me. I was strange because I was always a line officer and as a lieutenant supervisor.

Speaker 2: 24:34

You can't, you have to. You have to think about your people all the time. You have to think about the inmates all the time, you think about everything. You think about Chow, you think about transport, you think about this, and that you're always having to, always having to think about things that are going on and it's, it's a lot more responsibility. Yeah, that's why I told you I probably, maybe I should have stayed a sergeant.

Speaker 2: 24:58

Yeah, yeah but um, yeah, so I was a lieutenant. I came back up to North Florida after four years, I think, and State of Putnam see, I think four years.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Yeah, it's definitely a wider view. You know, when you're young and of course, sounds like we were kind of the same you know we start off as CO's. You get on the teams, you know you make sergeant and and you're running and gunning and people are following you through the door. That's an easy type of leadership and then they didn't prepare me for the next step. You know I thought it was just going to be more of that. And then you go up and you hit lieutenant, you hit captain and it's this wider view. You have to have a bigger vision. Not just CO's are looking to you, everybody in the institution is looking to you and I Think I had some severe bumps getting used to that as I came up. Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 25:53

Yeah, it was different when you're standing on the side of the cell bar, of the cell bars, and watching them go in there and you're having to say, okay, that's enough, or hey, coffee mop, or hey, let's get him to the clinic, or whatever. You know, it's a little different than they actually go in there with the crew you know?

Speaker 1: 26:08

yeah, absolutely so. Tell me you know. And we talked a little bit about the correctional officer's prayer, did that? How did that come about? What was it that was in you that Made you write that that was going on at the time? Because I'm going to guess that that was a time when you wrote that, when you were Probably struggling a little bit, but I'm just guessing at that. Tell me about it.

Speaker 2: 26:36

Yeah, it was near the end of my career. I didn't go the full 25 with 25 years for a full retirement here. Before I didn't go to the whole 25, I went 21 years and a few months. I had had enough. I was starting to have some physical issues and things like that. So I said you know what it's time to go. So I left it 21 years and a few months and it was actually before 9-11. It was in 2001, it was in February, and I looked around on the internet and I'm thinking to myself you know, they got the police officers prayer, you've got the firemen's prayer, you've got the teachers prayer and you've got the dispar and upper and I'm like you know what? There's no correctional officers prayer. I've never seen that. I mean, I've seen somebody take the word police officer out, put correctional officer in, but that's not the same thing.

Speaker 2: 27:23

Right, right and so I wrote that prayer with the understanding of all the years and things that I've been through and all the people that I've met and all the inmates that I've seen and all the officers I've seen and what it means to to go do a job, a thankless job, and To be able to come home after your shift, you know, to your family. And it just came together. I just it just came together and it's been used. Like you said, it's been used all over. I've been used in Australia and England, everywhere you know so I'm very happy.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Do you have that with there, with you?

Speaker 2: 27:59

Oh, let me. Yeah, I have a copy of it here.

Speaker 1: 28:02

I have to refer to it because I yeah, yeah but for the people who may not have heard it yet. I think it'd be great if you, if you, were able to read that. I know you could tell when, or I could tell when I read it that it's written by someone who's been there, you know. That was the first thing I noticed.

Speaker 2: 28:21

Let me see if I can find it here. I had it up, but when this rural electricity went out, here Come on. Yeah, so we're everything up here, okay, hold on here we go yeah, it's coming up right here.

Speaker 1: 28:34

Okay right.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Matter of fact, last year it was included in the Memorial for fallen officers in the state of Florida, so it was a some nice bronze plaque and it's a really, really nice. Okay, it's a Lord. When it's time to go inside that place of steel and stone, I Pray that you will keep me safe so I won't walk alone. Help me to do my duty. Please watch me on my rounds amongst those perilous places and slamming steel door sounds. God, keep my fellow officers well and free from harm. Let them know I'll be there too Whenever there's alarm. Above all, when I walk my beat, no matter where I roam. Let me go back when I came to family and home. That's it.

Speaker 1: 29:36

Absolutely Amen, that's. That's the way to end that. One of the places, one of the passages there that gets me is so I won't walk alone. And that's kind of been something that with this podcast and some of the writing I've been doing, that I want to get out there and we feel so alone. I've been there, I've worked that seg unit. You work it by yourself. Sometimes you know it's midnight, since it's evening and you kind of get lost in the work and you're running those housing units alone and you go home and you drive alone and everybody in the house is asleep when you get home and you do get this kind of loneliness and it's interesting that you you tapped into that.

Speaker 1: 30:22

But one of the things I've just been trying to tell people is you know, take a look around and corrections, corrections is out in Podcasts, books, more than ever before. You know, and I didn't know it till I started this podcast, but I've had over 70 countries that have tuned into the prison officer podcast and well before that I never thought about that. You know, there's there's somebody in Israel that work in a jail. There's somebody in Singapore working a jail Canada, we've talked to Australia, we've talked to England. Oh no, so we're not alone. We're doing the same job with the same thugs. They may have a different Language or a different accent, but it's the same job. So I find that really interesting that you put that in there, and I think that's important for all of us to know that we're not alone, right.

Speaker 2: 31:17

Yeah, it seems like we are sometimes because the press is so Ignorant about what we are and who we are and what we do. They're just so ignorant. We're just a bunch of bunch of stupid guards and you know, you know what do we know? You know. So that's one of the reasons I wrote the prayer, and Just to give us you know, just to let people know. Like you say, we're not out there by ourselves, you know.

Speaker 1: 31:40

No.

Speaker 2: 31:41

And people do care about us on the outside. Our families and our fellow officers care about us and and we're there to do a tough job and we have a slogan Jimmy Jim Beardy and I he's a president of the Florida PBA and I came up with a slogan called no guns, just guts. That was we did that, yeah. So so, yeah, it was an important thing. I think the right and a lot of people have responded to it and I appreciate that and it's it's. It's up in Michigan to the mission Michigan corrections officer slain Memorial. They're in Lansing and it's a couple of a few institutions have actually put it into Marble inside the facility, inside the little area before you know so.

Speaker 1: 32:28

I'm very proud of. You know I've been to a couple of different memorial services. You know correctional officers week and I've heard it read there Absolutely so. I know it's something that is throughout corrections you talk about. You know the fact that the media and stuff Tell me what you think about this, what your thoughts are. You've been around for a while. Corrections, in my opinion, needs to step out and start showing what we do. We've spent so much time hidden. We've spent so much time hiding the videos of what those inmates do inside, of what goes on inside, that the media has had this free reign to just fill it with whatever they want, because nobody's countermanding them. They're not saying anything different. We're hiding. Do you think it's time for corrections to quit hiding and Come out and say, hey, here we are and here's what we do, and we do it for you? I do.

Speaker 2: 33:26

I do actually. I think it's time and I think you know, when you have those cell extraction videos, everybody's first, the first thing they say is, oh, wow, you know. Look at all those guys jumping on that poor defenseless inmate right there.

Speaker 2: 33:40

You know Well most of the time that poor, defenseless inmate has been ordered several times to the cuff up, has been ordered several times to to desist and quit doing what they're doing, and they usually those kind or the disciplinary problems you know the first place and those aren't innocent babes, you know, for Talking too loud in church and I think if we start putting it out there that we are there because we're doing what we're doing, because they are the ones that are making us do that.

Speaker 2: 34:13

I mean we'd rather be sitting around somewhere doing something else besides having to go into a cell. But yeah, I think, I think a more active role by some of the departments and maybe some of the corrections unions or whatever right would, would be a Good thing and get our story out there. You know, because you've only got stories like the wire. You've seen the wire on TV, right, the wire, hbo, the wire, and you'd seen some of these other things that are just ridiculous, you know.

Speaker 1: 34:43

So, yeah. So I think more positive Role, more positive thing would be, would be better yeah yeah, I Don't know quite how we get that done, but I know there's a lot of people you know taking the steps that it takes Anthony Ganges out there and William Young doing just corrections. There's a, there's other podcasts and writing books out there. So I'm I'm really happy about that. So tell me some of the other highlights about your career. Um, what, what did what stands out with you?

Speaker 2: 35:18

Well, everybody asked me about Ted Bundy.

Speaker 1: 35:24

Okay, yeah, okay, we'll be that story.

Speaker 2: 35:27

Yeah Well, I knew Ted Bundy. He was just another inmate like the rest of them and he wasn't anything special. He was a quiet inmate. He didn't really give us any troubles. He did try to escape. One time he tried to. He cut his bars, Him and his cell partner next door.

Speaker 1: 35:46

They did cut their bars. What they use.

Speaker 2: 35:49

A hacksaw blaze that were smuggled in for maintenance.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Yeah, and so, but other than that I can't remember anything that he did inside that prison. That was that would have been, you know, given he got a couple of DRs disciplinary report for when he went to medical Sometimes he didn't like some of the things that doctors did or didn't do or whatever other than that. But I was down on death watch with Bundy and when all those guys you know all the guys that wrote the books and things about what Bundy told him when I was sitting there, you know with with all these guys listening to all this, and so you know I knew Ted Bundy. I mean he was just like another inmate to me, I mean so I did watch him die in electric chair, yeah. So other than that you know really nothing to read a book about. It's just what I did, you know, at that particular time, and I've seen about 17 or 18 executions.

Speaker 1: 36:55

Yeah, and in fact yeah, I wrote.

Speaker 2: 36:57

I wrote a book about Jesse Taffarro's execution in 1990.

Speaker 1: 37:02

The one that we, the sponge, caught on fire on the head, head sponge caught on fire, and so that was a messy one, but you know name of that book oh, executioner execution day journal.

Speaker 2: 37:17

It's on Amazon, Thank you, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 37:19

Yeah, I'll put that in the notes. I didn't know that. I'll take a look at that. I'll send you a copy if you send me your address. Okay, that sounds good. Yeah, we'll put it in the notes so people can find it on.

Speaker 2: 37:31

Amazon, Okay, and my time on the cert team working with the SWAT officers, the Orlando PD and we used to go out to camp blending. I have a huge national guard base here in dark and we'd all go out to camp blending and we work with different SWAT teams and things, and that was that was really fun for me. That was a good fun time with all my coworkers and you know I was 24 years old, 25, 26 years old, so you know I was in shape.

Speaker 1: 38:03

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 38:04

Not like that. If you can't see that, you can't see the little belly that I have here, but so that was fun. You know, repelling and practicing snipers and things like that. That was fun.

Speaker 1: 38:16

Yeah, I've got a picture on the wall there of me repelling. I don't I don't think they make rope like that anymore. I don't think I'm going to trust a rope, but those were the days.

Speaker 2: 38:28

Yes. And you know, you know, you know you would, you would I stray and repelled down face down and you know all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 38:35

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 38:36

When we were scared to do that and able to do it.

Speaker 1: 38:40

We still have a lot of great guys. I'll be going to the mock prison riot up in West Virginia here first of May, I think and and watching that team competition up there. There's still, there's still some hard chargers out there doing some crazy stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:56

I've never heard of that. Is that a baton squad contest? What is that?

Speaker 1: 39:00

It's kind of like shop show for corrections. It's the old West Virginia penitentiary teams from all over the country come there, moundsville, moundsville or.

Speaker 1: 39:09

Moundsville, okay, and all the you know people who sell stuff. I go up there with Pepper Ball and I'll teach some classes. But yeah, it's a great time and it's great seeing all those correctional staff coming together and and they get spent three days setting up real scenarios and doing real things inside that prison with you know and the you know Pepper Ball and everything will pass out Pepper Ball systems and let them go use them and see how it works, right, and then they have a skills competition for the teams on the first day, okay, and yeah, it's all running and jumping and repelling. Oh, wow, yeah, it's cool to watch. Yeah, so what do you see for corrections in the next few years? What's I mean? We all know retention, recruitment. That's what everybody's talking about, right, what are some of the challenges that you still keep up with all this? I suppose?

Speaker 2: 40:08

I do to a certain extent. Every once in a while, when there's a particular bill in the legislature for pensions or for the current officers, I probably go up there and I do a little lobbying, you know, with the PBA president up here in Florida, and so well, you're getting more and more technical with some of the things that we're doing. Some of the defensive weapons and some of the cell extraction techniques are different. They're coming, they're changing. It's just not, you know, six guys run in and just you know how are you going to get it and you got to get it. It's changing and it's a new world and which is good, which is fine. You know, safe for the staff to say for the end mic, even though it was a jerk Right. But you know, I see that technology becoming part, more part, of the corrections job.

Speaker 1: 41:03

So right yeah, and technology is becoming part of the contraband also.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Yes, it is.

Speaker 1: 41:09

With the cell phones and cell phones. Yes, right, I was listening the other day and I think it was Senator Cotton and I guess he's really trying to finally get some of this cell phone jamming going so that they can or not jamming, anyway, where they they take cell phone signals away from the whole institution, not just an individual phone. So a lot of that's coming to light and that's good to see. That's going to help them working inside.

Speaker 2: 41:39

Well, we didn't have cell phones back in the day. We had tight strings If the inmates wanted to send contraband to each other. You know what I'm talking about. Tight strings, I do, absolutely Okay, everybody. Is there anything about corrections, though? What tight stringing is? Yup, and they're very, very good at it.

Speaker 1: 41:54

I've seen people move.

Speaker 2: 41:55

My God, pillowcases full of canteen items. I couldn't understand how they got it across the roof, but they got it across the roof and across this roof and across that roof.

Speaker 1: 42:05

And it was amazing. Yeah, that was one of the back when I was younger and we would sneak down the pipe chases and try to pop out and just run down the range and try to grab up the strings, you know, and see what we got.

Speaker 2: 42:20

Right, right. I like to get up on the roof and go up there with my little pair of scissors and I you know they call me six they call me six kinds of whatever and I get off the roof and but I'd be, you know, it'd be good they wouldn't get their stuff because it fell in the yard. So just for fun.

Speaker 1: 42:39

So what are you working on now? You working on anything?

Speaker 2: 42:41

No, I'm just no, I'm just being retired. I just got married again.

Speaker 1: 42:47

Okay, yeah, congratulations.

Speaker 2: 42:49

Thank you, and I'm just living life with my new wife and I. We're just living here in Florida and just kind of enjoying, enjoying things, and we're both retired. So, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm doing Just get up and just go. Hmm, what am I going to do today? So there is life after corrections. Yes, there is.

Speaker 1: 43:10

Yeah, good, that's important. So somebody wanted to get contact with you. You have an email that I can throw up on the deal.

Speaker 2: 43:18

Sure, I do. It's LEPKMP at gmailcom Okay.

Speaker 1: 43:27

Well, I sure appreciate the conversation today. It's interesting hearing about all that. Thank you for writing that poem. Like I said, I know it's been used. I've heard it a dozen times in memorial services and stuff. It's always meant something to me. I know it means something to other folks, so I appreciate you doing that, appreciate you being on the show today.

Speaker 2: 43:46

Well, thank you, mike very much. I appreciate you. You're an awesome guy. I liked it. I like your podcast very much.

Speaker 1: 43:51

I appreciate that. Yep, we'll try to keep it coming. Okay, thank you. Have a great day you too. I would like to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors that make the Prison Officer podcast possible. Omnirtls is a company that I've been working with for the last year. I am proud to be part of this team of correctional professionals who have developed the best real-time locating system on the market today. With Omni's real-time location technology, you automatically know the accurate locations and interactions of all inmates, staff and assets anywhere in your correctional facility, and you have this information in real-time. Omni is cutting-edge software for today's jails and prisons. It is the only way to monitor every square inch of your facility while still being PREA compliant. Go to wwwomnirtls for more information and to make your facility safer today. That's wwwomnirtlscom.