.jpg)
The Prison Officer Podcast
The Prison Officer Podcast is a place where prison officers and correctional staff share their experiences, discuss leadership, cope with stress, and learn survival strategies for one of the toughest careers out there. Hosted by Michael Cantrell, this podcast delves into the lives, dreams, and challenges faced by those who work inside the walls of our nation’s prisons. It features interviews, insights, and discussions related to the unique and demanding world of corrections. Whether it’s overcoming difficult leaders, understanding rehabilitation, or addressing misconceptions about incarcerated populations, the Prison Officer Podcast provides valuable perspectives from professionals in the field.
The Prison Officer Podcast
102: Leadership Strategies and Fostering a Culture of Integrity - Interview w/Chris McConnell
From military operations in the Gulf to the corridors of correctional facilities, Chris McConnell's journey is a narrative of resilience and leadership. Growing up in a law enforcement family in Pennsylvania, Chris was destined for a life of service. After serving as an airborne infantryman in Operation Desert Shield Storm, he transitioned into a civilian role, first as a municipal police officer and later embarking on a remarkable 30-year career with the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Chris's story is a testament to personal growth and adaptability and an enlightening guide to the diverse career paths available within the Bureau of Prisons.
The episode uncovers the complex realities and rewarding challenges of positions like lieutenant and associate warden, emphasizing the essential roles they play in maintaining safety and order within prison environments. Chris highlights the significance of mentorship and how it shaped his transition from managing daily incidents to overseeing emergency preparedness and critical operations. Whether you're considering a career in corrections or simply looking for leadership inspiration, Chris's journey offers valuable lessons and insights.
Chris's email - cmcconnell1968@outlook.com
Chris on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherlmcconnell/
From crowd control to cell extractions, the PepperBall system is the safe, non-lethal option.
OMNI
OMNI is cutting-edge software designed to track inmates and assets within your prison or jail.
Command Presence
Bringing prisons and jails the training they deserve!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Contact us: mike@theprisonofficer.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePrisonOfficer
Take care of each other and Be Safe behind those walls and fences!
Hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. My name is Michael Cantrell and today I've got an old friend. We've known each other for several years Chris McConnell. We're going to talk about his career and his life and what he's doing now that he's retired. He started off in the military, was airborne infantry and worked in law enforcement for a little while before he came to the Federal Bureau of Prisons. He's had several and we'll go through his career and learn about each step, but he's had several jobs through the years. He was an emergency preparedness specialist, which was where we met each other on the teams and with EPO stuff, finally retired in 2022 as a complex warden at USP Pollack. So he has went through the ranks from correctional officer all the way to the top and I'm excited to have him on here and hear about his story. So welcome to the podcast, chris.
Speaker 2:Thank you, mike, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I'm sure you I know you have you listen to the podcast. I always like to start these out the same Tell me where you grew up and what it was that got you into corrections.
Speaker 2:Well, I grew up in a small rural town in northeastern Pennsylvania called Canton. It was a law enforcement family. My mother was a secretary and office manager, but my dad and my brother were both Pennsylvania state troopers.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:They're both retired For a period of time. My oldest brother was a municipal police officer and he worked for the sheriff's office, so, needless to say, a law enforcement family.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I knew at a very young age that I wanted to be in that brotherhood, that fraternity, that civil service, that law enforcement type job. That internal desire never left me. It's probably still with me today. I graduated in 1987. Of course I was 18 years old, probably a little wild, probably not fully mature. So I enlisted in the United States Army. I went in as an airborne infantryman.
Speaker 1:Nice. Thank you for your service.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you. Probably one of the best decisions of my life. I served four years and one combat tour in Operation Desert Shield Storm tour in Operation Desert Shield Storm, excellent.
Speaker 1:So then you came back and you went into law enforcement.
Speaker 2:Is that right I did? After I served in the military I decided to pursue civilian law enforcement. So after I was honorably discharged I did something that's rather unique In the state of Pennsylvania. I used my GI Bill to pay my way to become a certified municipal police officer. So I attended a state university that hosted a police academy and I paid my way through to become a police officer, of course in the hopes of already being certified and being hired by a department that doesn't have to pay for my academy. So it was kind of a new concept, I believe, at the time.
Speaker 2:But once I got out I started looking around at the you know, the municipal pay. It wasn't the highest back in the 90s it was actually pretty low. But knowing I needed experience to move on, whether I went state or federal or whatever my desire was going to be, my father had a contact in the Tioka County Sheriff's Department, so he knew the sheriff there. It's kind of a funny story. When I was interviewed by the sheriff I don't think he asked me one question about my qualifications. I think we talked about my dad the entire interview. But anyway, I was hired on there for about a year and that was my initiation, so to speak, into corrections transport court, security, prison inmates, everything.
Speaker 1:So you had some time there as working in the jail as a deputy.
Speaker 2:I did, I worked in the jail. Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 1:And so what was it that made you want to keep going in that instead of heading out to the street? Because a lot of guys start in the jail, you know, they get a couple of years under their belt and then they try to hit the road. What was it that kept you in corrections?
Speaker 2:Well, I can say this as I previously mentioned, I believe and I could be wrong, but I believe my hourly pay was $8.08. Yes, that was fairly low at the time, so I knew it was probably a position that I was going to do for a period of time, get my experience and move on. Now this is around 1993. I'm 24 years old and the Federal Bureau of Prisons, commonly referred to as the BOP, was having a job fair in our area.
Speaker 2:I did not have the BOP on my radar. I did not know much about the BOP, but I was certainly interested. So there was a newly built correctional complex in Allenwood, pennsylvania. So I thought, okay, job fair Allenwood Bureau of Prisons, paramilitary Job fair Allenwood Bureau of Prisons, paramilitary, law enforcement agency, canines, investigations, swat teams, gangs, good benefits, pay, career advancement, travel. I'm thinking all this stuff. You know my mind is spinning. Sure, of course, I went to the job fair, I applied and I was hired as a GS-6 correctional officer and that was the start of my 30-year career with the BOP.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So did you get hired on as a GS-6 because you already had that year in at the jail?
Speaker 2:The year in at the jail and, I believe, my military, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, because that was the thing. If you didn't have some prior experience, you had to come in as that GS five and wait a year. So now I guess there are some of them are coming in as GSA. I've heard the BOP and I kind of had to walk in there and shut my mouth and let them reteach me. But yeah, we don't always get brand new people off the street like you. They came in, they've already been doing the job, that's right. So where'd you start off? At Allenwood?
Speaker 2:So I did. I started off at Allenwood. I was making a little more money. I think my salary was $24,800 back in the early 90s. It was a little more. It went a little bit further than it does today. But I together we put the beds together, the cells together, the lockers together, brought in all the equipment. So I didn't have that first time walking in a prison with a gate slamming behind you effect. I somewhat slowly eased into the Federal Bureau of Prisons because we were activating it.
Speaker 1:Did you guys get extra training and stuff because you had some time there without inmates? Was that a plus?
Speaker 2:It was a plus extra training. I remember we had a guy, a lieutenant, old school lieutenant from Lewisburg and he was our training lieutenant. And what a great opportunity to have the time to sit in classes and be trained by someone that has you know, 30 years experience managing inmates. So, yes, a definite plus.
Speaker 1:Probably one of the highlights of my career was when I activated Thompson and I got all those brand new people off the street and got to spend time with them, teaching them everything that I'd learned, piece by piece, and it was very rewarding. I still keep in touch with a lot of them, so you get the complex up and going. Complex is a different kind of bird, I mean, it's a different kind of world. Multiple prisons how many there? Three.
Speaker 2:Yep, there was actually four there, if you count the minimum, because the minimum security or the federal prison camp already existed. So the complex consisted of the low, the medium and high high security, which we call penitentiary. The minimum security institution, again, was already existed. So four levels and I believe the complex philosophy was allowing staff to be promoted without transferring. So I took advantage of that. Again, I entry level as a GS-6 correctional officer and I promoted to a GS-11 lieutenant right at the complex.
Speaker 1:So you may not have had that day when the door slammed, but you did have a day when all the inmates showed up. Tell me what that week was like, because it's more like a week. It's not really one day, but you know it happens over a period of time. Tell me what that was like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, the good thing is is they came in slowly. You know, a bus load here. A bus usually has, was it 40 inmates? I believe that we put on bus. Yeah, was it 40 inmates? I believe that we put on bus, yeah, 40 inmates at a time. So we were able to, you know, put so many in a unit at a time. You may have 10 inmates in a unit and the correctional officer can run the unit with 10 inmates, and the next day we may have 20, and then 30, and then 40. So we kind of, you know, built our way into having a full housing unit of 100-plus inmates. So it was actually kind of built our way into having a full housing unit of 100 plus inmates. So it was actually kind of nice. I like to think that that was one of the reasons why Allynwood ran so well. I believe some institutions start out not running so well for one reason or another, but I believe that's one reason. Allenwood was just one of those institutions that ran very well.
Speaker 1:What was your next?
Speaker 2:Well, I like to say when I started the Bureau I was still kind of looking for that brotherhood, that camaraderie. So I did join the Special Operations Response Team. We call it SORT. It's kind of the BOP's version of a tactical SWAT team. They trained in dealing with high-risk situations, collateral duty, generally train one to two days a month, one to two weeks a year, similar to the National Guard. And even back in the 90s we competed nationwide with other sort teams like running and obstacle courses and tactical entries and rappelling and shooting and things of that nature. So that was a neat opportunity for me as well. That was kind of my introduction into emergency preparedness or emergency management.
Speaker 1:So one of the recent podcasts I did was on becoming a member of a team. It's one of the pieces of advice I give staff as soon as you can get on one of those teams, whatever it is. How important was it to you to be the member of SORT that early in your career?
Speaker 2:Extremely important. That's one of the keys to success that you know. Maybe perhaps we'll talk about later Corrections is a tough, tough business. It's a tough, tough business. You have to do something else. I highly encourage any staff member to get involved in their institution, whether it's part of a team, whether it's an instructor. It's your career. Make the most out of it. So extremely important to have another outlet, like the special operations response team and actually getting a day or two out of the prison hanging out with the fellows shooting weapons, taking your mind off corrections Extremely important. I didn't realize it back then. I more realize it today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're absolutely right about becoming an instructor. If you want to become the master of a subject, the best way to do it is to teach it, and that's going to carry you throughout your career.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's a good point there.
Speaker 1:Your next step looks like you became a lieutenant. When did you make up your mind you were going to go into leadership?
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny, at the time I was a GS officer so I was considered a senior officer specialist. There was a position open a correctional counselor. It was a GS9 step. I thought, well, I only have a short time in the Bureau, I doubt I'll get it. But as we say, we like to test our paperwork, let's apply for it. We'll test our paperwork and see where we're at. So I applied for it and I actually got the position. Now I didn't think that was my career path. It was a little bit different for me going from, say, correctional services into unit management. So I don't think I was happy doing that job and I knew I wanted to get back into correctional services. So a position opened for a lieutenant, actually on the complex, and I applied for that and I was selected as a lieutenant. So staff teased me and they say that I have two scars in my back, one when they removed my backbone to be a correctional counselor and one when they put it back in when I became a lieutenant.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of reading. Goes on with that stuff.
Speaker 2:I call it fun banter.
Speaker 1:We absolutely need those jobs, but they're absolutely. You know, I had the opportunity to become a unit manager at one point and I was like I just don't think I can do that. That's just not who I am. Yeah, so, but one thing about the Bureau, one thing about corrections people don't realize, people that are coming into this, is how many options you know. You go in a police department. There's pretty much like two or three ways that you move up. Corrections is just wide open, especially like the Bureau. 122 prisons I don't even know how many different classifications of jobs. Food service, unit management facilities.
Speaker 2:That's right, it's wide open.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. A lot of opportunity out there. And if you have a skill or a background, if you have a, you know, you can commit as a correctional officer and say you're, you have a skill, a certificate, a certification in plumbing. Well, you can go into facilities and be a plumber. It's amazing, you know. A prison is the best way I explain it. I'm sure you've heard it is a small town. A prison is a small town. What a small town deals with is exactly what a prison deals with. We just don't have automobiles driving around, sure, everything else is pretty much the prison deals with. We just don't have automobiles driving around, sure, everything else is pretty much the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, absolutely. So what was it like being a lieutenant? I mean, I don't know about you, but the lieutenants, of course. I started off at Leavenworth. I had some lieutenants that were larger than life, and then, when I made lieutenant many years later, it was just like I became part of that club or whatever. And so what was it like becoming a lieutenant in the BOP?
Speaker 2:Probably my second favorite job in the entire Bureau of Prisons. I was a lieutenant for about 10 years, not only at the federal prison camp for a short period of time, but at the penitentiary. I always say I operate well in chaos. I just I so enjoyed it because a lot of people depending on me, depending on my decisions, depending on my common sense, you know there's times where we make decisions that you know we have to separate staff and inmates for whatever reason, for the safety of staff and inmates. You're the problem solver, you're the first responder. You set the tone for any incident that you deal with and you deal with incidents on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:That's personal life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and being in that position, having that honor, that responsibility and, quite frankly, that confidence, there's nothing better and we all know that corrections is a thankless job. Like you say, most people have no idea what we do, but we also have a shift of you know staff and inmates that you know we have to take care of and protect and give them our best and, as a lieutenant, that was one of the one of my favorites.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, you know it is a thankless job, but when you're a lieutenant, I think that thanklessness that's the public, maybe the administration, but you are so close to what's going on and the people you're working with and the inmates I mean, I had inmates thank me for the job I did when I was a lieutenant also, but you're so close to what's going on you actually do feel like you're making a difference as a lieutenant.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:So did you start thinking moving up in leadership beyond that? Is that when that started?
Speaker 2:I did not, Okay. However, someone else did for me. Yeah, that happens. So it was one of those things. You know, my captain at the time, a very respected individual. He pulled me aside and said Chris, I want you to promote up, I want you to have more responsibility, I think you can further your career. I was like well, I don't have that desire, I'm fine right here. And he says no, you're going to leave. And I said I don't want to leave. And he said you're going to leave. So he actually persuaded me and, boy, I appreciate it today, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Where did that path take you?
Speaker 2:That took me. I went to the central office or headquarters in the Office of Emergency Preparedness.
Speaker 1:Quite a warm shirt, didn't you?
Speaker 2:What a neat, what a neat job. That's what I can say. But then you know emergency. I always say there's a there's a huge difference between emergency management and emergency preparedness. They're both broad categories but they're both entirely different. What I did was more emergency management kind of the mitigation, the preparedness, the response, recovery, things of that nature, whereas emergency preparedness is kind of you know, those steps before, during and after an incident. But what a neat job that's. When I became intimately involved with use of force and less lethal munitions, the Office of Emergency Preparedness took me in that direction.
Speaker 1:You don't realize there's a lot of stuff that that office is over. I didn't even realize until I actually went up there and took it over. I mean all the teams you're involved with them, all the use of forces across the Bureau. You're putting a hand in, somehow, either reviewing, or people are calling you up and going. Did we do this right? How do we do this? So much training comes out of that office that goes back down to those institutions. So it's a huge job up there. When I left, there was the chief and then there were four specialists. Is that what it was when you were there?
Speaker 2:Yes, we had the chief, and let's see one, two, three, I think we only had three at the time, three specialists, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, huge job, but so rewarding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know. Again, we talked about you know taking advantage of your job, you know volunteering, getting involved. I tell people all the time that the Bureau of Prisons sent me to Indonesia, for example, and people are like, what are you talking about? Bureau of Prisons, that's federal, that's United States, what do you mean? Indonesia? Well, I was part of a team that went over and did physical security assessments on their institutions that housed terrorists. Again, get involved, become that subject matter, expert in that field that you enjoy and get involved in. Opportunities like that will present itself.
Speaker 1:So you were up there from what 09 to 13?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I stayed there for about four years. I actually was trying to figure out what do I do now. You know what do I do now. So I remember going to my assistant director and I said I think I'm ready to put my show on the road and perhaps move to the next position. And he said okay, he goes. What do you want to do? And I said perhaps a complex captain, perhaps associate warden? And he said, chris, you've been in custody pretty much your entire career. You need to get out of your comfort zone. I want to see you go out as an exec executive assistant.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:I went. Okay, I didn't have that one on my radar either. Okay, so I started applying to executive assistant positions.
Speaker 1:For those who don't know, tell us what that is.
Speaker 2:It's basically the executive assistant to the warden Pretty much handle all the paperwork, day-to-day planning, just kind of keep the warden in that straight path. I'm the guy that does all the administrative duties, but it also prepares me for that next level, that executive leadership level.
Speaker 1:You learn a lot in that position. When I was a deputy we were in between executive assistants Like a couple of months. The warden put me in there and I became so detail-oriented I learned so much about the Bureau and, like you said, custody. I didn't know a lot of this stuff. It's a big position as far as learning.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And going to Butner. Like you, I know you worked at Springfield. Butner, of course, is a federal medical center. People that may not know. It's a full hospital facility complete with hospice and a morgue and everything in between mental health, palliative care, dialysis, oncology, mental competency, evaluations Wow, it opened my eyes to a whole new area of the prison system. You know inmates that are sick, inmates that are older, things of that nature Something I didn't think about when I was a correctional officer or emergency management specialist. I've not dealt with that.
Speaker 1:It's a whole different world. I need to do an episode just on medical centers. Talk about what all that entails, because it is, I mean, as a correctional officer or lieutenant or whatever. You come in there and you're like, okay, how do I put cuffs on a guy with one arm? You know, it's just. It takes everything that you thought you knew about corrections and puts twists to it. And how do you treat somebody that's, you know, hospice, you know.
Speaker 2:Yep and I used to call it. I would always call it. You know correctional medicine Because you had to find that delicate balance between you know safety and security.
Speaker 1:You know with compassionate medical care and common sense sometimes, sometimes it's in the gray areas, completely out of policy, what you're dealing with. So sometimes it's just, you know, being able to pull out some common sense. That's right, yeah. So, executive assistant, where are you headed to next?
Speaker 2:Executive assistant. Now I'm ready to put my show on the road again. So I started applying for associate warden positions and I was lucky to get selected at USP Lee in Virginia USP standing for United States Penitentiary high security. It was quite an honor to be selected at a penitentiary as a first-time associate warden, sure and because most first-time assignments are low or medium securities and so that was a very neat experience. And of course it was my second penitentiary at this point, so I had a little familiarity of what I was doing, what made you choose your warden At the time.
Speaker 2:I had two wardens when I was there. One was Warden Chris Zink and the other one was Warden Charles Ratledge.
Speaker 1:Was he not there yet? He wasn't there yet.
Speaker 2:He was not there yet, but I did work with Brecken Mike Brecken in the Office of Emergency Preparedness in Washington DC for a short period of time. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, small world.
Speaker 2:I met him.
Speaker 1:So what was Lee like?
Speaker 2:Lee was different. It was a great. It was a good experience. It was a good experience for a first-time AW.
Speaker 1:How was it being the AW over programs instead of corrections? That's a whole new world.
Speaker 2:That's a whole new world because again you're out of your comfort zone. What do they say? Jack of all trades, master of none type of thing. So here I'm managing departments that I have, you know, quite frankly, very little knowledge in. To be honest with you. Let's just call it what it is Financial management. You know the business officer, the money Facilities. You know infrastructure of the prison, food service. You know the service, the food we serve to the end. I mean, wow, I have a lot to learn. But that's why we move around, that's why we go in different positions of higher responsibility, more oversight, to learn everything. They learn the entire prison operation, every department. So perhaps we can move to that next level as a warden.
Speaker 1:It's not by accident. The Bureau has set this up over decades and improved it the way people move up through there, because they didn't want somebody at the top who can only make decisions in one area of knowledge. So, yeah, they prepare you to come up there and eventually be a warden.
Speaker 2:That's right? Yep, that's right, it takes it. Yes, you know, generally you do two tours as an associate warden, two tours meeting two different institutions, a lot of times in two different regions, two different security levels, things of that nature, you know.
Speaker 1:To make you more rounded, yeah, so you went to big. Your second AW is going to be at Big Sandy.
Speaker 2:Second AW.
Speaker 1:Who knew it was Big Sandy at that time?
Speaker 2:It was fairly new. Let's see, it was probably. It was probably still 15, 20 years old.
Speaker 1:Was it.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's been around for a hot minute before I got there. That was a great facility. You know, sometimes when it comes to executive staff, when it comes to the selection of, you know, aws and wardens, you don't have a choice. The executive, the Bureau executive staff picks those positions and we had an all-star team there. We really did. It was an all-star team and we were. We just got along so well from the warden to the AWs to the captain, which which makes for a well-run institution. I thoroughly enjoyed my my tenure as AW at Big Sandy because it was so well-run. I learned so much. I learned how to run a penitentiary Really and it was and it was the you and it was the executive team, and then you can be a well-run, you can be a great exec team, but you still have to have buy-in from the staff and we had that as well and it was just a pleasure to be an associate ward at Big Sandy during my tenure there.
Speaker 1:So what do you attribute that to, because that's something we have a lot of problem with right now. What do you attribute that the executive staff were doing to get that buy-in, to have that influence?
Speaker 2:Again. I had a very high-ranking individual in the Bureau of Prisons one time. Tell me, sometimes we get it right, sometimes we get it wrong, and there's probably some truth to that. Different disciplines, different philosophies. You know you're merging all these people together and you're trying to come up with, you know, a whole and it worked at Big Sandy for us. I think sometimes some institutions get perhaps, maybe executive staff that don't see eye to eye or just have different philosophies or ideologies or whatever, and maybe they, you know, maybe they're resisting one another and maybe it's showing on how they manage the institution. We didn't have that. We were all on the same sheet. We were a well-oiled machine.
Speaker 1:And that makes it comfortable for the staff where they can look at the management and they see that the management's getting along, they're all working together, they're headed in the same direction and it's for the good of the institution. Then the staff know it's for the good of them also.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's definitely a bigger picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so your next step is going to be warden. And they looked around and they picked out the prettiest institution for you to go to Pollock was kind of rough when you went there, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Well, it was rough and I got to the point where I started applying for my warden. I remember getting that phone call and said Chris, we're looking at you, we're looking at you at El Reno and Pollock and I said okay.
Speaker 1:Those are opposite ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 2:And they said do you have a preference? I know that my preference really wasn't going to matter, so I said I have no preference. You know it's an honor to be looked at as a warden, not only selected. So I said you know, whatever the agency wants me to do, I'll do so.
Speaker 2:I was selected as a warden at FCI Pollack, which is in Louisiana, but, interesting story, before that I was still associate warden at Big Sandy and Hurricane Irma did some damage down in Florida and Texas and as a part of ESF-13, if people are familiar with that, emergency Support Function 13, which provides federal assistance to areas of disaster asked if I would take a team as the team leader down to Florida for Hurricane Irma. And of course when you're asked something like that, you say yes and I said of course. So I didn't get much preparation time for a ward and I went down to Florida as a team leader for Hurricane Irma. But that was a great experience, not only an honor to be selected as a team leader, it was an honor to take those men down there to give them whatever help that we could give them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the ESF functions are part of FEMA plan, where they can take individuals from different agencies, bring those teams together to go out. And for ESF 13, it tends to be a lot of search and rescue and security type stuff and I didn't get to go on any of those. But if the guys that came back in corrections we get so little opportunity to interact with the public and help the public and they were always just so jazzed to be able to get called out and go actually, you know, help the public outside the prison. For those, that's right. That's right. Excellent. So you come into Pollock. Tell me about Pollock.
Speaker 2:Yep. So I traveled back to Big Sandy after Hurricane Irma and you know, prepare for my transfer to Pollock as a warden, a medium security, fci, federal Correctional Institution a medium security. But it was a pretty wild place. It was a very, very active medium security. What do I mean by that? A lot of incidents, a lot of inmate-related incidents, whether it's drug introductions or violence, fights, things of that nature. It was just a very active facility. But what was nice about that is I took my years of emergency preparedness, my years of experience at penitentiaries, and I applied it to that facility. I'd made a lot of security enhancements. I call it One nice thing about us when we were in the Office of Emergency Preparedness, we had the ability to read all the after actions.
Speaker 2:Awesome, I mean we're actually reading what people did wrong and because generally after actions they focus on the negative, not the positive, to be honest with you. So we're kind of reading what went wrong. So put that knowledge in your head. You don't want to make the same mistake twice. So it was actually knowledge for us, great knowledge to take on to that next level. So when that situation comes up at your facility, you already have some exposure to it on how that next level. So when that situation comes up at your facility, you already have some exposure to it on how to handle it and hopefully how to handle it correctly. So that was certainly a benefit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was just before COVID, but no, you stayed at the same place, didn't you?
Speaker 2:Well, I, yes, I did. I stayed right at Pollock because Pollock was a complex as well. So they had a medium security institution and a high security institution. They had a complex warden and then a warden. So they had two wardens on the complex. So I kind of call them junior warden, senior warden. So the next step would have been an SES, or they call it senior executive service, complex warden. So I did apply for that and I stayed right at the complex and I assumed the duties as complex warden right at Pollock. So I did two years as the warden at the medium and three years as the warden at the penitentiary.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm sure at the penitentiary there were daily challenges. You got there just or you switched jobs just before COVID, so that had to have been one of your biggest challenges.
Speaker 2:I did COVID was. I certainly can't sit here and take all the credit, but I am the complex warden and I led 2,500 inmates and 500 staff through this unprecedented, unchartered national COVID-19 pandemic. We had no inmate-related deaths Again. Taking all those years of emergency preparedness, all that experience I've had all those after actions I read and applied it toward this pandemic and we had a successful outcome. So that's probably one of my fondest accomplishments in the entire Bureau of Prisons was managing my staff through that.
Speaker 1:Well, and those tend to be the things we remember, except, I guess, for some of us. You know the crisis, you know when crisis happens, that's what builds bonds, that's what you know builds that community inside the prison, whether it's a fight or whether it's COVID-19. So, yeah, the prison, whether it's a fight or whether it's COVID-19. So yeah, I think all of us have that. Where we have this, some of our best times are what everybody else would go. That's got to be the worst time. Well, no, we were working hard, we were working together and it was the true team at the time.
Speaker 2:That's correct. You have to be comfortable in your own skin, right? You have to be ready. You have to have prison experiences that prepare you for something like that. And I was lucky enough throughout my career to have those experiences. I was very comfortable managing that pandemic with my staff. I remember sitting down with all my department heads and you know I remember looking them all and there's some don't get me wrong, I'm a little nervous but I remember looking at them in the face and saying I operate well in chaos. We got this, folks. This is we're just going to apply what we know, we're going to make good common sense decisions and we're going to get through this as a team. And we did.
Speaker 1:So you've moved up into that warden position Kind of talk to me a little bit about. You know we get so comfortable and I know you did too. Correctional officer lieutenant, we operate in that tactical mindset. But when you get up in warden, and especially warden over a complex, you've switched a lot to the strategic mindset. You've got to think about the whole picture. Even as a captain it was hard, you know you no longer just get to think about custody, you've got to pay attention to everybody else facilities, food service, education, make sure all of it comes together. So talk to me a little bit about that strategic thinking when you get up there in the complex board level.
Speaker 2:Well, the good thing is again, I transferred over from the medium so I was already at the complex. So I knew all the staff. I knew the department heads, I knew the exec staff. It was somewhat seamless. I knew what the problems were at Pollock, so I just didn't transfer in. I was already on the complex for two years, so that was certainly an advantage for me.
Speaker 2:Pollock at the time had a black cloud over it. It just seems there was a lot of negative publicity surrounding Pollock and I did not like that. One of my main goals was to get us out of the black cloud. Let's change up a little bit, let's do some different decisions, let's manage a little bit differently and try to stay out of what we call the funny papers. Sometimes, sure, I'm a firm believer in if it's not broke, don't fix it, even if it's not how you would do it. Focus on the areas that need fixing. And I think we did that and I think we got it to a point where it was a you didn't knock on wood and I'm not trying to pat myself on the back but we did stay out of the funny papers. We were out of that black cloud. I think we got it moving in the right direction All right.
Speaker 2:And again, that's not a me effort, that's a team effort. I may be steering the boat, but you know I have my crew in the back that keeps it afloat. Jim, but I have my crew in the back. That keeps it afloat. So did you retire out of Pollock? I did retire out of Pollock.
Speaker 1:Yes, what was the just? Was it time? Were you tired?
Speaker 2:Other opportunities I had 30 years in, almost 30 years in, with four years in the military. So I had 34 years of government service. It does get to be time. It does. To recap entry-level correctional officer to an SES warden. I did six geographical moves, eight different institutions, including headquarters, worked at complexes, medical centers, penitentiaries, mediums, minimums, witsec, everything. And one thing that sometimes we may forget about is we're towing our family around with us and it's hard on him as well. My son, I think, at the time was in 10th grade and he was already in 10 different schools. That's good in some respects and bad in others. So it was time to you know, think about the family as well. That's good in some respects and bad in others. So it was time to you know, think about the family as well.
Speaker 1:Maybe look into a different endeavor and see where the you know, see where it takes us. So, through all those moves and all the jobs, I mean it's no easy task going from a correctional officer to a complex warden.
Speaker 2:What do you think the secrets to success are there? Well, I think number one. I believe the number one secret to success is training. I refer to training and you've heard this, I'm sure pay now or pay later. You're either trained or you're untrained. Either invest in high quality training now or pay later for injuries and deaths and lawsuits and community distrust and all that stuff. Training does not stop. I participated in training for the past 30 years and I still learn new stuff every day. Just because you're a warden does not mean you know everything. But I also think it's important that training and I teach this training must be recent, relevant, realistic and ongoing. Absolutely, that's very, very important. But number two another key to success is something I did and this is something I see in other agencies where you really got to be careful Learn your current job before taking on more responsibility and promoting.
Speaker 2:I see a lot of staff promote up quickly. That's okay. But if you don't know what you're doing in your previous job, are you just chasing money? Are you chasing promotions? Take your time. It's a career, it's a marathon, it's not a race. I had 24 years in before I made warden. Some people can retire at 20 years. I had 24 years in before I made warden. I was 49 years old but, more importantly, I was ready. You know, I was ready to take on that responsibility. I was in no rush when I was a correctional officer. I was in no rush when I was a lieutenant. I was in no rush when I was a correctional officer. I was in no rush when I was a lieutenant. I was in no rush when I was an emergency management specialist or an exec or an AW. I enjoyed learning the entire aspect of the job. I wanted to be ready before I took that next step and I think that's two keys to success.
Speaker 1:That I hope would help out anybody. So you've had many leadership positions. You know from lieutenant or even GS8, but lieutenant is usually when most people consider themselves stepping into the leadership positions all the way up to complex warden. What are some of the? I don't know if you've got somebody listening here and they're moving into those positions. What are some of your leadership thoughts, tips, what helped you?
Speaker 2:Well, first I will. I will answer the age old question Are leaders born or made? But I'm going to cheat and split the difference and say both. I do believe that you know some people do have, you know, natural leadership abilities. I do believe that some people do have natural leadership abilities, but I also believe that those abilities and those qualities need to be honed through experience and learning. So there's a lot of catchy phrases out there. One people will say is leadership's not a rank, it's a service is not a rank, it's a service. You'll say how do you inspire and guide and influence others into achieving a shared goal? First, I would say integrity. You have to be honest, you have to have a moral compass or staff will see right through you. Now, that's first.
Speaker 2:I believe another important aspect of leadership is really leading from the front. Again, one of those catchy phrases don't ask your employees to do something you wouldn't do yourself. I led from the front, for example, when I asked my officers, my staff members, to do a shakedown. I'm in a unit doing a shakedown with them. I'm in a cell. I could tell that was a new concept to some, because they were all going the warden's shaking down. You know things of that nature. Perhaps maybe they have not seen that, but, leading from the front, I remember taking over in 2015,. You know, I think I was associate warden at the time and a new concept in the Bureau was stab resistant vest. There was some resistance there. You know how do I tell a 30 year correctional officer put on a vest. Wait a minute, I just went 30 years I didn't wear a vest.
Speaker 2:How do I tell a plumber, hey, put your vest on while I'm working inside a pipe chase, I have no room as it is Put on your vest while you're interviewing an inmate for mental health reasons? How about a hot climate, the sweat, the heat, a lot of resistance. But you know what I did as a warden? I wore my vest. I put it on when I left my house. I took it off when I got home. I wore it all day. I set the example, I led from the front.
Speaker 2:You know, I've actually heard people say well, the wardens do it and I'm going to do it. You know that thing. You know, yes, it was a policy. Yes, I could have enforced it through discipline, but that wasn't the time or the place. You wanted. You want them to do it.
Speaker 2:Because we care about you, we're going to give you equipment to to you know, to protect, to saw this in our careers is you cannot manage from your desk, you have to manage by walking around. I remember the days when the wardens would have a picture, a framed picture, in their office and it said M-B-W-WA, manage by walking around. How are you going to know what's going on in your institution unless you get off your butt, get inside there and walk and talk with the inmates and the staff. It's that simple. You have to manage by walking around. That is leadership 101. And when I was walking around I would ask him you know what equipment, what supplies, what training do you need to successfully perform your job? What's one thing you would change right now to to make your job safer? Is there anything I can do for you right now? You know those type of questions.
Speaker 2:Engage with a staff. I was also known to test them a little bit too. I'd quiz them. You know what's the goal of OC? You know involuntary closure of the eyes, things of that nature. If you lost control of your unit from an inmate fight, kind of a disturbance what would you do? You know those types of things. You know. Call for help, secure the unit, you know. Wait for the cavalry to arrive. You know additional staff. You know where's your cut down tool. You know things of that nature. Just constantly make them think.
Speaker 1:Constantly training, constantly training.
Speaker 2:It's because training never stops.
Speaker 1:Everybody says we don't have time for training. Yeah, you do. Do it right there on shift. Every time you see one, one of the officers give them just a question. And I saw several guys like you. Of course, they were always the best ones, the best AWs, the best wardens were the ones that quizzed you. They wanted to do it. It made them feel better. I know that this officer gets it. I know that they, you know, understand. So they not only got that, but then we also got this leadership of. They want to know that we're doing what we're supposed to.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. That's right, i's right. Yeah, that's right, and it is. I call it a general reminder. You know, some of that training that we do, some of those questions that we ask, are just general reminders. It's just to, it's to get your head thinking. You know, we used to say you know what if, everything. You know what would I do if this happened? What would I do if this happened? I did that as a warden and it seems silly, but it's a great game because I've asked myself questions that actually my heart sank in my stomach because I wasn't sure of my own answer. And that's what I mean by you know what if? And then you have to. Okay, I need to look into this. I'm not confident in my ability right now if that particular what if, happened, and I need to explore this a little bit further.
Speaker 1:Yeah, getting the officers out of the. There's so much stuff tied to them being in the office. I think, and I hope and we're seeing some of it come across as a technology and I hope technology is going to take some of that back off. The officers and the lieutenants Lieutenants are stuck in offices too because we're filling out reports, all these forms and all these Excel deals, you know. But I think technology that's what's coming into corrections. I think that's going to be the next great thing is it's going to come in, take some of those, you know, just piddly jobs off of us and allow us to get back to doing corrections.
Speaker 2:Right, that's right. And if I could just close a little bit more on the leadership, a couple of other points I wanted to bring up is I think you know leadership is also listening to your staff before making tough decisions, especially decisions that's going to impact the operation or everyone. I say I think that's important. Everyone should have a voice, a buy-in opinion, and unfortunately there's only one person that makes the decision, but everything should be taken as a whole before a decision is made.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question here while we're talking about this. So it's not on yet, but I interviewed a 28-year-old correctional officer the other day, so it'll be here in a few weeks. But one of the questions I asked him I said I get to hear from people up in the chain. You know that your generation is tough. You know to manage that they don't look at things the same way and he said we don't. He said but what we want is explain to us why. So tell me, you know, as a leader and you're talking about that communication is that something we can give staff coming up? Is the why? Or do we not have time and we just say do it like we used to?
Speaker 2:Again, I think that's that manage by walking around. That's going to allow those questions, that's going to allow those answers. Hey, ask me why. I'm more than willing to tell you why. Why did you paint the egress door green? Why did you do that, warden? Why did you do that? Well, because the statistics have shown if an officer or someone within that unit was in distress, actually running for their safety, all they see is one color throughout that entire unit. They have no idea where the door is, because you know that fight or flight takes over and you know your mind's going 100 miles an hour, your adrenaline's just flowing throughout your body. But there's statistics where they've asked the officer why didn't you just go out the, you know, out the front door, out the egress door? I couldn't see it, I didn't know where it was at. I was just running, all I saw was one color, things of that nature.
Speaker 2:I think it's important to explain why we do what we do as a warden. That was one of my difficulties. I had to realize that there is a generational gap between me and some of my new correctional officers coming on board. But I had a mentor have you know, have to explain that to me saying you do. You do have to recognize that they, they, they do look at things differently. It's not bad, it's just different. That's okay, you know so.
Speaker 1:Any final thoughts?
Speaker 2:Well, just to even get back, I want to mention one other thing in leadership because I think it's important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think you know I used to call it. You know there's sayers and there's doers out there. You know, some talk a great game and leaders get it done, and I think Benjamin Franklin said it best well done is better than well said. So you know, action not words. Action not words regarding leadership.
Speaker 2:My final thoughts I guess my final thoughts would be one thing that I, as a warden, I always hated to hear from staff is you know, I can't wait till retirement. I can't wait till retirement. This is your career, your career. Make the most out of your career. Don't wish for retirement. Retirement will come. You'll get there, trust me. Enjoy your career along the way, get involved, volunteer, become an instructor, make yourself, your staff and your institution a better place.
Speaker 2:Something that I would press upon my staff when I'd hear about retirement. I think that's extremely important. I've had, you know, probably lucky, but again I've traveled outside the country, traveled all over the country with the Bureau of Prisons, so that was extraordinary, to say the least. But to answer your question on a final thought, I guess I'd just like to say you know, thank you to all the correctional professionals out there. You're the true public servants that perform a dangerous and thankless job with honor and compassion and professionalism. Be proud of who you are and what you do. And I would also like to say Mike, I like to say thank you for doing what you do. I always said that the craziest things regarding human behavior happen in two places prisons and hospitals. So for you to try to make sense of a world that doesn't make sense, it's probably extremely difficult, but you're doing a good job, so keep up the good work, brother, appreciate that yeah.
Speaker 1:It's been a learning experience for me. I'm still learning. It's been a learning experience for me, I'm still learning. And to get to do these interviews with you and you know we're coming up on our hundredth episode to get to do that, I have learned so much. So corrections hasn't stopped for me just because I retired from the bureau. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:If someone wanted to contact you, what's the best way to you have a email? Or LinkedIn, or what would you like to put in the show notes?
Speaker 2:I am on LinkedIn. I am on LinkedIn. I also have an email. It's my first initial C, my last name, mcconnell, so it's CMcConnell. That may or may not be the year I was born, so cmcconnell1968atoutlookcom. I would welcome any questions or comments or any advice or any mentorship.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I'll put that in the show notes and I'll say thank you before I let you go, because you were a mentor to me in emergency preparedness and the teams. We had a lot of great conversations when I was coming and I'm sure that's what allowed me to move up into. I mean, I finished out as chief of emergency preparedness, which I'm very proud of. That's right. But, we had a lot of conversations and you helped me through that process and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Well, we helped each other.
Speaker 1:Okay, have a great day, chris.
Speaker 2:Thank you, mike. Thank you, it was an honor being on here. I appreciate you interviewing me.
