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The Prison Officer Podcast
The Prison Officer Podcast is a place where prison officers and correctional staff share their experiences, discuss leadership, cope with stress, and learn survival strategies for one of the toughest careers out there. Hosted by Michael Cantrell, this podcast delves into the lives, dreams, and challenges faced by those who work inside the walls of our nation’s prisons. It features interviews, insights, and discussions related to the unique and demanding world of corrections. Whether it’s overcoming difficult leaders, understanding rehabilitation, or addressing misconceptions about incarcerated populations, the Prison Officer Podcast provides valuable perspectives from professionals in the field.
The Prison Officer Podcast
108: Can Smart Technology Create Second Chances? Interview w/Alisha Shoates James
What happens when a police officer's career evolves into revolutionizing corrections technology? Alisha Shoates-James takes us on her remarkable journey from patrolling Nashville streets to developing innovative tablet solutions that transform prison environments nationwide.
Drawing from her seven years in law enforcement and extensive experience as a federal probation officer, Shoates-James intimately understands the complexities of our justice system. Her work creating pre-sentence investigation reports for federal judges provided deep insights into the human stories behind criminal cases. "The person is not their lowest moment," she emphasizes, a philosophy that guided her leadership of Tennessee's Probation and Parole Division, where she supervised 1,200 staff responsible for 78,000 individuals reentering society.
Now at Aventive Technologies, Shoates-James pioneers secure tablet solutions that are deployed to 1,200,000 incarcerated individuals in America's prisons and jails. These devices deliver far more than entertainment—they provide critical education, rehabilitative programming, and family connection for incarcerated individuals while creating calmer, safer environments for staff. Correctional administrators report significant reductions in facility tension and behavioral incidents after implementing this technology. "When we introduce tablets into the environment, suddenly everyone has equal access to education," Shoates-James explains, describing how digital learning eliminates waiting lists for limited classroom seats.
Subscribe to the Prison Officer Podcast for more insights into the evolving world of corrections and innovative approaches to rehabilitation and reentry.
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Hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. Before we get to our topic today, I just want to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors. Innovation has always been the key to success of Pepperball, and the Pepperball Blast is just one more way to deliver a payload that will distract, disorient or incapacitate an inmate. This lightweight, refillable delivery system is perfect for carrying in a holster in your pocket or just holding in your hand as part of a cell entry team or a cert team. Each reloadable blast cartridge contains up to three projectiles worth of PAVA powder. When the quick flip safety is turned and depressed, the PAVA powder is pushed out of the tube by a 1.8 gram nitrogen cartridge. This will quickly cover the inmate and saturate the cell. Since there's no actual projectiles deployed upon firing, this is a truly non-lethal product with no impact. To learn more about Pepperball, go to wwwpepperballcom or click on the show notes today for more information. Pepperball is the safer option first. Hey, welcome back everybody. This is Mike Cantrell with the Prison Officer Podcast.
Speaker 1:Today I've got a guest, alicia Schultz-James. She is the Senior Vice President and General Manager and Account Manager at Aventive Technologies, where she oversees national accounts relationships, leads a team to ensure client success. Previously, she served as Senior Vice President of the Post-Incarceration Business Unit at Eventive's subsidiary Securus Technologies, spearheading the strategic expansion of reentry resources and tech solutions for justice-involved individuals. She began her career in law enforcement as a Nashville police officer and later became a federal probation officer and is still very active, including she's part of the table and I'm going to have to ask what that is and the executives transforming probation and parole. So she's still very active in law enforcement and corrections and reentry. So welcome to the Prison Officer Podcast, alicia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me and thank you for whoever scripted that beautiful bio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know we haven't done a lot of probation and parole on here, so I'm interested to hear, of course, how you got there. We did have the president of the Missouri chapter of the Probation and Parole Association, but that was a couple of years ago, so I'm going to dig into that as we go along. But I always start off with the same stuff. Can you tell me where you grew up and how you got into law enforcement?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. Thank you for having me Excited to be here and share with your listeners.
Speaker 2:So, originally from Detroit, michigan, and always had a knack, a love for law enforcement and the public safety, public interaction component of it like public servant interaction component of it Went to undergrad in Tennessee and I thought that I would go back to Detroit to be a police officer and fell in love with Nashville. Fell in love with the city. The crime rate was a little bit lower than Detroit and so I just decided to stay in Nashville and tested to become a police officer. I actually was in my junior year so luckily I met my husband before I tested to become a police officer, because I could tell you, junior year of college, being a cop was it was very interesting. But but yeah, and then just stayed, stayed in Nashville thereafter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so were there people in corrections or law enforcement in your family? Had you seen that already?
Speaker 2:Yes, I had. So my, my uncle, my father's brother, um was a Lieutenant in the Detroit um police force and um, unfortunately he lost his life in the line of duty. He was um, he was going in, he was actually just ending his shift and went into a fast food restaurant to pick up some dinner. Um, uh, a guy subject dude was robbing, uh, the the was robbing the establishment.
Speaker 2:My uncle announced himself and the assailant got a drop on my uncle and unfortunately he succumbed to his gunshot wound. But he lived for a few years after being shot. But that was really so you can imagine my parents' surprise. That's powerful.
Speaker 2:When I went from wanting to be a special education teacher early in life to wanting to be a police officer, they were like you want to do what? And then the family history of it, but it really it connected me to legacy Again, thinking about how police officers serve the public. It was a very, it was a strong sense of pride and community in Detroit and so that connection, the connection to the community, really drove me to say yeah, I want to serve my public, the public, in this way. That's going to be my contribution.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of where it all started.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So when you became a law enforcement officer and I know there's surprises, we all have those moments when we get in there and we go, wow, I didn't expect this. What were some of the things that you learned about yourself and learned about the world actually? Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I had a very fortunate upbringing, lived with my siblings, my parents, and so, even though I'm from Detroit, it was the, you know, the more affluent parts of Detroit, right. And so policing introduced me to other components of society and really the gray areas in life where people are on a straight and narrow path and get a substance use, addiction or, you know, drinking or some type of critical incident that really derails them. So it allowed me to see kind of the multiple dimensions in human behavior in, you know, in society. And so when I first became a police officer I wanted to be a homicide detective.
Speaker 2:And that was. You know, the crime shows were big when I was in high school and so I thought, man, I want to solve murders. And I visited a police precinct the 8th Precinct in Detroit when I was like a junior in high school.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I was like, you know, there was closure to a case that a police officer, an investigator, had worked on and there was a victim, a family member of the victim, there, and they were talking about how this detective, this investigator, allowed them to have closure. And so when I first became a police officer, I said, okay, you know what I want to do, that I want to go out and close these cases and serve my community in this way. And I will tell you, like I mentioned, I was a junior in college. So by the time I graduated the police force I'm sorry, oh yeah our third call of the first day, and it was it was a homicide call. And of course, patrol in Nashville patrol is called out, of course first to just like assess the scene and call in a homicide unit.
Speaker 2:And I went on the scene and like within like five minutes I was like I don't think I want to do homicide anymore, like that. So it really surprised me, because I had this buildup of years of you know what I mean, from high school to undergrad and then a first week on a job, and was like, yeah, I don't really want to you know, want to do homicide. But I knew that I had found my passion for what I was doing in the capacity of law enforcement at that time. But I was surprised that like quickly, I was like no, I don't want to stare at dead bodies. It was kind of it wasn't my thing.
Speaker 1:That's interesting because you know you're right. The initial part of a homicide is here, and that's a whole different thing than that closure at the end, which would be so gratifying. Wow, Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how long did you stay with the Nashville PD?
Speaker 2:Seven years I was a Nashville officer. For seven years I worked patrol, worked a little bit of undercover investigations, I worked in background and recruiting the training division. So I had an opportunity to move around a little bit within my seven years and then we had like maybe every month where we had to go out and do actual patrol work to connect us with, you know, the community still, no matter where you were, if you were in training or whatnot.
Speaker 2:And I always will say during my tenure at the at MMPD, serving in patrol, and connecting with the community and just being a brush like it's, the vibrancy of, of that position. That was probably my favorite in my in my law enforcement career.
Speaker 1:Nice, yeah. Um, so next thing you moved to was federal probation and parole. Yeah, so I did that come along.
Speaker 2:I know Right. So I had earned my master's degree. I had no plans of getting an advanced degree, but I had. I earned my master's degree while I was a police officer and you know it really opened my eyes up. I thought about when I was a police officer I thought about the way to move up was to make sergeant, lieutenant, you know, captain, commander, and was kind of focused on growing in my career that way.
Speaker 2:And then I thought about, okay, dea, fbi, atf, right like Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. And I thought about, okay, dea, fbi, atf, right Like Tennessee Bureau of Investigations. And I thought about, okay, there's an opportunity there for me to grow my career that way. When I got my master's degree, I was open to like there are a whole lot of three-letter agencies out there federal agencies that people typically like I did, I just was not familiar with.
Speaker 2:And I was fortunate enough to do a temporary duty assignment at the White House, actually while I was a police officer, and during that seven months it really opened up my mind to think through what could be a possibility, you know, in my career.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I understood that the federal probation where I was was a in the Middle District of Tennessee. The role of a federal probation officer is still a law enforcement-oriented role but, it's much more adjacent to the court. You work within the court system, you can write pre-sentence reports, pre-trial reports, do supervision, and so it was almost a natural extension of after incarceration Right. So there's a very tactical. You know, you lock somebody up, you work the case, you go and you testify in court, right, and then they serve their their period of time.
Speaker 2:And then that that transition when individuals come out into the community. There's a whole host of work with that, a whole host of work with that, and so I thought that it was unique enough and challenging enough but very closely aligned to law enforcement. Where I had the opportunity after I finished my master's degree and that was a requirement, that was a prerequisite for Middle District of Tennessee was that you had to have an advanced degree, and so I thought what better way to put that to use. You had to have an advanced degree, and so I thought what better way to put that to use, and it was such an enlightening experience understanding federal law and understanding the judicial system at that time, like in that season of you know, armed career, criminal, and learning different statute, how to apply sentencing guidelines to individuals who had been convicted of crimes, to better inform federal judges. It just took me down a very, I think, a deep road with understanding criminality in a different way, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And understanding that, while my previous experience as a police officer was very Black and white, understanding that, while my previous experience as a police officer was very black and white, like if you're there disturbing the peace or you're committing a crime, then you know, then we, then there has to be an intervention and I have to restore peace as a as a police officer. But there there were.
Speaker 2:There was the gray areas in life that I saw much more abundantly during my time as a federal probation officer and then talking to individuals, family members, talking to victims of crimes, understanding that, and so you stand in the middle of kind of the instant offense that occurred, and then the individual having redemption at life and coming out and being more successful as they reintegrate into society, right. And then driving accountability and structure for them. So it was a very unique role that a lot of people was like. I don't really understand that federal probation officers, you know, have that type of scope, but it was. It was very impactful.
Speaker 1:Well, I got to ask you a question, and this is something for me to learn from, because I've seen the other end of apparently what you did, which is PSIs you know pre-sentencing reports so as a federal correctional officer that was something that we looked at, something that we sometimes went and studied. So, for my own information, can you tell me a little bit about what you guys do for that, Because it is such an encompassing of their life?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's a very humbling experience. I will tell you to write psis for federal judges because, um, you know, again, I had. You know, you go to school and you get the degrees, whatever, and you have these life experiences and then to be able to recount a person's life, to be able to, with dignity and respect, inform the courts, inform the BOP, inform every you know, all interested party attorneys about the individual with fact-based and resource-based information. It is definitely a lift, and sometimes those reports would be anywhere from 30 pages to 100 pages, right, like you, definitely a lift, and sometimes those reports would be anywhere from 30 pages to 100 pages, right.
Speaker 2:Like you've seen that, and if the criminal histories are extensive, being able to appropriately calculate the criminal histories that go into that and all of those calculations set the judge up for understanding the appropriateness of a sentence right, there are some, you know.
Speaker 2:If a person's criminal history is more tenured and lengthier, then at a certain point, you know, some criminal history would just be lumped together for a point basis.
Speaker 2:But it was, you know, I would say, interviewing everyone from the attorneys to any family members that can give insight to the incarcerated individual themselves right, like understanding how their family members have played into kind of their experiences or their lifestyles, right.
Speaker 2:And then, and being able to articulate that story again in a very posture, was something that, like you said, so many people who had to use a PSI and it's so critical for sentencing and mandates of the court, judges being able to mandate the appropriate types of rehabilitation programming or education or suggestions thereafter, or even a probation officer, post-release or super post-release supervision officer, being able to drive compliance with the person, understanding their background and history, all of that is the foundation for how a person moves forward and I've always I mean in that time I really doubled down on the idea that the person is not their lowest moment. Typically, what is what is deemed as their lowest moment of that instant offense? Right, but it took place. What are the parameters that can help this person become a more successful, productive member of society, and who are the respective community players or law enforcement players that can help that person rehabilitate and be more successful in the community?
Speaker 2:So, that was the scope of it.
Speaker 1:So that's interesting, that that was the way you were focused. That's not the way I saw it from my end. But, that's interesting that you know. I worked at a medical center in Springfield, Missouri, which has a lot of mental health, and sometimes you look at those guys and go, how did they end up like this? And you look at the PSI and it's scary, it's sad. You can't believe. Some of those people have went through and I'm not one of those people that makes excuses.
Speaker 1:you know you make choices in life but, some people didn't get a fair shake, and we used to see that. But we also used it when we spoke with them and when we had problems with them, because I could go back and find out what meant something to them and have a conversation.
Speaker 2:Yes, so interesting to hear about that, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I mean that's the that you hit the nail on the head, right Like it's a tool that's leveraged at different points of the you know of the criminal justice process to better inform. But, yeah, like some individuals that came across my desk, I just thought to myself my God, right Like the you know being introduced to substances at four and five years old, or you know, victims, a lot of victims of violence or sexual assault or different things that you know that it's just you could imagine why you can better understand why they're having the challenges that they were having like during their time in the justice system.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so how long did you stay with federal probation and parole?
Speaker 2:So almost five years. And then I had a mentor who called me and said, hey, I hear that the state is looking for a probation administrator and I thought I really like the federal system. We had a lot of the newer technology. It was a very interesting role. Definitely, I would say, more more sophisticated understanding of the application of law than than my tenure at the police department. But I was looking for a challenge specifically around leadership, like I said I mentioned. I mentioned I had finished my degree and I had studied some things in leadership and I had managed small teams. But I wanted to just stick my foot in the water, stick my toe in the water at a larger leadership opportunity and I went from that experience, that federal experience, to supervising about 300 people up under my chain of command. So I had, I think, four direct reports, but the first region that I supervised was around three to 400 staff who were responsible for about 21,000 probationers and parolees in the region.
Speaker 2:And so I went to the state of Tennessee, tennessee Department of Correction up under the Probation Parole Community Corrections Division and from regional director to probation administrator to finally assistant commissioner, where I oversaw the entire division Probation Parole, community Corrections a staff of 1,200, 900 were sworn and responsibility for 78,000 individuals reentering society. Again, it elevated the way that I thought about the application of justice, post-release and really the idea of what could true rehabilitation look like and that balance of true rehabilitation and allowing an avenue for that while making sure that the peace and the protection of society remain whole right, like we had a mission to protect you know, protect the public right and, as individuals who committed these crimes, reenter society, making sure that we understand where they're living, what they're doing, if they're going to programming, if they have a job, gainful employment, coming in for drug testing.
Speaker 2:But that role I mean it definitely deepened my leadership experience, obviously supervising that many people over 95 counties but leading 900 officers Right Like people who are sworn and had. You know guns and you know drove marked cars or whatnot A very different function than a police officer. But you know the public, public perception around. You know probation officers and their authority is similar, and so I had to artfully and distinctly draw that separation for the probation officers to be and parole officers to be impactful.
Speaker 2:But, understanding that our jobs were much different than traditional law enforcement and we had a duty to the state to ensure kind of this, to allow an avenue for a behavior modification for these individuals, the people who are up under probation and parole. They had already served their time, so our job was not, as probation and parole officers, to be punitive and to you know what I mean like try to in some way de-incentivize success. If anything, we wanted to give them avenues to change their behavior and then, you know, become productive members of society.
Speaker 1:Right, you know one thing I've talked about with correctional officers that I don't think gets brought out, and I think it's the same. You tell me, with probation and parole we have more power in one way to say it for take away somebody's freedom than a police officer does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I can write a report and I'll get two more years you know, you can violate them and send them back and they're going to go for two or three more years and I don't think we look at that sometimes as the burden or the responsibility that it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very true. And when you think about it like it's a tremendous responsibility, and that's why I think like the for me, when I look at what at that point, you know, looking at employees and the staff that we have around us, making sure that we have leaders that understood that we want to cultivate a culture where people respected, you know, the power that they have and they're humanizing the experience.
Speaker 2:Now listen as much as like the old school police officer in me, right like we understand that you know if there is an infraction that takes place and someone needs to be held accountable, balancing that mindset and driving accountability with opening up the door and allowing an avenue for change. But there were some people, undoubtedly, who did not take the help and who would not you know what I mean Like they did not, you know, respect the conditions of their release or their probation and ultimately had to go back into an incarcerated setting, and it was appropriate.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And just like having. That's why I say is it like correctional officers, probation officers? They're very unique positions because they may not be in that many LA, you know, movies or whatever. It may not be on the big screen, but it's a, they're very, they're key and critical roles for how justice is, you know, administered in some ways throughout the justice system and it's an important role in society for sure.
Speaker 1:I know corrections does, I know probation and parole does. But we also affect that person's lifelong feelings, understanding about justice.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And when somebody feels like they've lost justice because even I mean you've talked to them they know that they're in there for what they did.
Speaker 2:There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1:I accept it and I'm going to do my time, but we can steal that from them also by treating them wrong.
Speaker 2:Right, Absolutely. I work closely with, obviously, the incarceration, the assistant commissioner that was over operations of the incarcerated individuals, and it was always a push and pull around. How do we balance what that reentry process looks like, making sure that the probation or parole officer are going inside the institution prior to release and making sure that we had continuity of services as they release into society? And then you know, it's just, it's a coordination, right, and I think that if you lack that coordination or that continuity of services individuals could have could not be, you know, as successful because they aren't being introduced to here's a job when you first come out here are housing resources, here are mental health resources, and so it is.
Speaker 2:You know it's key and critical.
Speaker 1:One of the most impactful things for me. I started off at Missouri State, penn, which is now a museum that tells you how old I am, and one of the first inmates I walked out had done like 35 years and they handed him a check for like $3.47. Wow, and the guard? We were guards back then but the lieutenant said and don't come back. And my brain's just going well, what do you think he's going to go back to? Yeah, yeah, exactly. We didn't give him anything, you know, we didn't give him anything yeah yeah, we're better than that.
Speaker 1:now, right, exactly, we didn't give him anything. We didn't give him anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're better than that now, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I was getting ready to say the evolution of corrections and thinking about even my role. That's why I love what I do so much. I mean the technology component. I know we're getting there, but I would be remiss if I didn't say this is reentry. Today looks markably different than reentry 10, 15 years ago. In most cases, especially in the environments, when we're able to deploy technology and I have the privilege of serving and partnering with over half of the prisons and jails in America to be able to deliver secure technology that benefits the incarcerated individuals but also benefits the officers, and I'm not going to lie. I think early in my career I would have never understood the power of a tablet and how you can put education and reentry information on a tablet Individuals they can consume that in their cell.
Speaker 2:They can consume that, like when I was in, when I was, even when I was assistant commissioner we didn't have tablets in our facilities and people. We would have to wait until we had a seat in that classroom for John or Jane to go get the programming that they need. That was a condition of release and so it's a prerequisite for release and that individual you know would be maintained in that correctional environment.
Speaker 2:the costs associated with them, treating them right, like that, everything operationally that goes around you know, keeping a person in custody, but when we introduce tablets into the environment, then now you take your 30 seats that you have available every month and you multiply that to what is appropriate for the content and you know education is being delivered and now everyone has that equal access. So you think about just. It's like a release of a pressure valve from an operational perspective and then from a contention perspective from the, you know, from the incarcerated individuals.
Speaker 1:And something I've seen over the years from the incarcerated individuals. I've seen them go to the teachers and say, hey, I want to learn this, but I can't sit in class. I've seen them hide textbooks. I've seen them reading up on stuff in their cell that they can't show the others because that makes them look bad or they lose face or whatever.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. And now like, if an individual is on a tablet, they don't know if they're looking at you know listening to music or looking at a book, or you know what I mean reading you know the newest novel that they choose to consume? Right, to be better connected with their loved ones. Right, we want to facilitate phone calls and conversations and e-messaging and pictures of their kids, because we want individuals to get out and have that technology allows that facilitation to happen without interference, you know, or operational, I guess, interference from administrators, right. So we're always thinking at Avento Secures.
Speaker 2:We're always thinking about the officer, right? How does this technology that we're introducing into the environment, how does it streamline operations for the officer? How does it make the environment more safe, more productive, keeps the incarcerated individuals calm at a lower pressure point, right? I mean, all of those things are benefits that we saw and that we continue to see as we deploy our technology. So you know, that was one of the reasons when I think back to why I transitioned ultimately transitioned out of traditional kind of corrections or law enforcement is I wanted, I was really interested about innovation. Where can we take, you know, innovative solutions and be able to innovate in a way that impacts the reentry process that better connects people as they are returning from an incarcerated space.
Speaker 2:And I launched a couple of businesses. I launched a business specifically about this called Quick Touch, and I had a connection with Securus and Securus said, look, we're really trying to do this reentry thing, we want to be able to provide connection for individuals. And I'm like great, because I just, you know, had I've had all this experience with the population that you're trying to serve. And so we connected Securus and I connected and I came within the in the organization to help kind of further the advancement of providing the reentry and rehabilitation arm of the organization and that has just taken off. Like I have colleagues now who oversee that, I've moved into an account manager role where I, you know, stand between the customer and the business, making sure that we have a balanced approach. But we have some. You said it one more time.
Speaker 1:I'm just agreeing. Yes, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we have wonderful people over our education system and people who have had the experience of working in correctional environments as educators now working to strengthen our platform. So it's just I mean it really is a. People ask me all the time like how did you wind up like you're working as a patrol officer? How did you wind up in tech? Right, it was that hunger for solutions, because I understand and I understood that government environment. Sometimes you're you're so busy, like making sure that you keep the bus moving right and keep those wheels on the bus turning, that having strong partners that can come in and say, hey, here's a solution that you may not be thinking of because you're doing this mission, critical work, and here's how we can collaborate to make your life and your job easier.
Speaker 1:So for people that don't know, kind of run me through what's a tablet, look like what's on there, the security that's involved and what's the options that they have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is where I'm going to have you put up, like populate, an image of the tablet right, we can probably do that Right.
Speaker 2:In the playback. We'll have the image there. We'll have the image there. But right now we have undeniably the most secure technology for a correctional environment, both from an officer perspective and the incarcerated individual's perspective. Our new tablet is called EvoTab. It is a modular design tablet that allows individuals to consume media, education, rehabilitative services, make phone calls from their tablet. So now there's not a monopoly on the phone on the wall for individuals where they have to clamor or fight over that phone on the wall. They have that at their fingertips.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you real quick here. So I was talking the other day about these new FCC guidelines. How does that affect this?
Speaker 2:Do inmates get?
Speaker 1:charged for using the tablet to talk to family. Does that go over, okay?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's just like you or I if we you know on our cell phones or our tablets there is a cost for that. You know that communication. Essentially, the FCC has come in and said that the cost of a phone call or a video call is capped based on the side of the agency, right? And so, based on if it's a DOC or a county, there are rate caps in place. It does not limit the amount of communication, it does not limit the types of communication or material that is, you know, on the tablet.
Speaker 2:Of course we always work with agencies to make sure that the you know material music, movies, games are within the scope and policy of the agency. But essentially the agency will drive that and guide that. The FCC simply says that it's appropriate to have rate caps.
Speaker 2:And when you think about rehabilitation and you think about the need to connect individuals to their family. We support having communication that has appropriate cost for incarcerated individuals. Me or you, we have to pay for our cell phone service, right, and there's a cost to that. But we agree and we support the idea that that should not be extreme costs where people are unable to have meaningful conversations. So we support that wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1:So on the tablets, is it like FaceTime or is it like a phone call, or both? Right?
Speaker 2:So it can be either, yeah, it can be either, or it just depends. Every agency is different. You can imagine that, right, like every county is different, every, every DOC is different. We have devices that are mounted on a wall, where there are, you know, like just a video terminal type device. There are agencies that will allow for the video connectivity on the tablet, or there can just be, you know, straight phone calling on the tablet.
Speaker 2:But, yes, individuals can receive pictures from their loved ones, they can correspond on email, they can correspond in a text-like solution. And, from an operational perspective, while we appreciate and we want to facilitate those communications, we want to make sure that that's done in a way that promotes a safe and secure and you know, safe and secure environments allow people to do their time in a way that promotes rehabilitation. Right, and if you talk to a lot of incarcerated individuals, which I'm sure you have over your tenure, they don't want the time foolery either, right?
Speaker 1:Like they don't want to deal.
Speaker 2:They just want to do their time, you know, digest some rehabilitative content for the most part, work a job right, get positioned to be successful post-release and then go out in society and release. And so I think our investigative tools are tools for the officers to really drive behavioral management on incarcerated individuals' devices. All of those are tools and the tool belt for the officers to be successful while managing the population.
Speaker 2:And kind of. What I mean by that is that the officer would have his own tablet, right, so he or she would have their own tablet, and then incarcerated individuals have their own tablets. Let's just say that there are behavioral issues with specific individuals and perhaps they need to have some type of restriction. Maybe their tablet should only be used for phone calling and messaging, and that officer says John Doe, you know the behavioral health model, risk needs responsivity.
Speaker 2:We're going to make sure that we take away the music and the media. The officer then can leverage their tablet and then go in and do that behavioral modification so that John Doe loses the privilege until they have proven themselves appropriate to have those devices or those services, and then they can turn them back on. So we really try to empower our agency and our administrators to think through what's the best way to supervise the population.
Speaker 1:Sure, and you know, I've seen County jails that have got 40 inmates and there's no way that they have the access if they want to learn something new, if they want to do something. But I would guess with these tablets it's almost unlimited what they can sit there and learn.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:The really cool thing about our new Evo tab is that we have the Google Play Store on the Evo tab and so we can interface with third parties.
Speaker 2:Of course the agencies would have to give us a blessing for that, but we can interface with third parties to offer reentry content that is custom.
Speaker 2:They're third parties to offer reentry content that is custom, their third parties, as custom to the communities that individuals are releasing from right. So the jail population a lot different from the DOC population, as you know, but for your listeners, right, like that, the jail population are shorter stays and so when you think about the importance of digesting content that's going to help for that rehabilitative, you know that facilitate that successful rehabilitation it becomes important for an individual to be able to get their device and begin to download that information and consume that information as soon as they're in facility and not wait to be placed into a class DOCs. The beautiful thing about the opportunity I would say with DOCs is that incarcerated individuals can take consume education programs that are lengthier in time. So think about two-year degrees, think about GED training, right, so you have the time there for longer facilitation and consumption of education material. So it really regardless if you're talking about short stay 21 days or long stay five or six years, 10 years the devices are used differently depending on the needs of the individuals.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing that hit my mind while you were talking about the jail there sometimes you want to get that to them at that moment.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because that might be the moment they've said I need to make a change, something's not going right here and if you wait they're going to get back into that system. They get more criminally educated.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 2:So I could absolutely see the reason to get that in their hand immediately. You know, I was just in a jail in Georgia, actually yesterday, and I was hearing from their administrator that said, when we first like, the tension in the jail before tablets was extremely high. You'll walk to the day room. People are yelling, you know. And he said, when we put the tablets in there, like it just brought the tension down so significantly and even the volume of the day rooms. Because people are focused on either they might be consuming music right, like they. It can be relaxation too, right Like we, we. But we understand that technology allows for the environments to be more conducive to rehabilitation than those without Like. There are uses of force, incidents, right, and there's no studies that directly correlate that instituting tablets drives down use of force.
Speaker 2:So this is anecdotal, I just want to make sure I say that for the record. But we have seen and we've heard from administrators that they have noticed that the uses of force have decreased when you introduce technology, because people are occupied.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I can even tell you from old school. I worked in a prison. Everybody had a TV. You didn't want to lose your TV. So I'm absolutely sure that they don't want to lose their tablet.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was a deterrent. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and that was a deterrent. Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And you know again, working with the agencies to understand how the technology can continue to further their mission. Right, we're, we are in partnership. We don't. We don't ideate in a silo, like that's one thing with our agency or with our organization, that we don't. We don't ideate in a silo. We make sure that we go out and we talk to leaders, we talk to practitioners and we say what do you need, what is going to benefit you as operators in this environment? And we come back to the genius minds that we have within our organization. Shout out to Melanie and Lidgett and Jessica I don't want to start, I shouldn't start saying names, oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:I'm going to miss somebody, but we have some really impressive people, charles Barrasso, that we will bring the use cases to and then they will help us further develop what we need to develop right. I was working with a colleague his name is Liv, since I'm naming people and you know we were talking about the investigative services and ways to strengthen the investigative services, and I'm going to tell you it wasn't you know a couple months later that there was this first scope of how to advance that understanding that our tools and our technology really, as we move forward, is we're a staple in the way that prisons and jails are run in America and we are dang proud of that.
Speaker 2:So, you know, and I'm proud to be a part of the team too.
Speaker 1:Sure. So what's this team working on now? What's for the future? What are you guys bringing forward?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the future is here, right, with the Evo tab, and we will continue to see further iterations of our technology. So, strengthening of the applications that we bring to the environment, you know, more secure connectivity and communications to. You know the short term, or what do we call it? Stc? So it's like a text messaging feature, right, making sure that, like that was revolutionary when we think about from phone calls to e-messaging, to STC. Just making sure that we continue to strengthen those products and services. Sure that we continue to strengthen those products and services. Increasing the type of media content that we have, making sure that, while we want all of the publications and the books and everything that we offer, the blockbusters too, right. So just understanding and having that balance, the newest music for the incarcerated individuals. From the officer side, it's really exciting because everything from the safety and security, the investigative tools that we're developing and bringing to market, continue to evolve on our platform for officer tablets, right. Just a strength in the connectivity and the reliability of what we do as we continue to evolve that of what we do as we continue to evolve that. So we're excited. We're excited to partner with agencies that are forward-leaning and hear from them as we continue to develop our products and services.
Speaker 2:And I mean selfishly when I think about my time as a police officer, when I think about my time running an agency or as a federal probation officer. I wish that I would have had some of these tools and understanding the content that people you know either consume in an incarcerated environment. Probation really doesn't know. In America, like I will say, a large part probation really doesn't know what people, or parole officers they don't know what people are doing while they're incarcerated, right, and so if we had some type of digital receipt to say here, here's the content that was consumed, when we think about scoping reentry plans for individuals, that would be huge Right, and our connectivity, our tablets, allow for that digital receipt of here was what was consumed, here are the hours that were spent on it, and we can give that to John or Jane Doe or the agency, for you know just the iteration of a success plan as they release into society.
Speaker 1:Interesting? Yeah, because on our part, unless they completed it and got a certificate, we probably didn't put it in their file Exactly.
Speaker 2:And then you don't see it.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly what can corrections and probation and parole do to work together better, because I always feel like we're separate and we shouldn't be as much, because we're just handing them off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle and I would say you know, we did everything from earlier reach-ins where you had parole officers going inside the facility, connectivity with family members prior to John or Jane Doe getting out, and more than just a checkbox Because probation and parole officers, they would have to go and say, okay, is it a real house, where's the address? Who else is going to be there, mom or dad? Make sure there are no weapons in the house, but making sure that there's connectivity with the family to say you know John or Jane Doe, you want them to be successful. Tell me about other things that you know we should. We should work on as like, almost like a collaborative team for that reentry process, documentation or any instances where they should be notated in the file and then given to the parole officer. So there's this continuity.
Speaker 2:It's very choppy. Our justice system in America is very choppy, right, like the police, and I can't tell you how many cases I worked in and you're like what happened to it, like you just don't know. So you know you have and everybody has their role and function. But just making sure that the communication is there, that we leverage technology then to have that receipt and the PSI, the great.
Speaker 2:You know that's a great, like you mentioned earlier that's a great document to kind of capture all of everything that happened before that incarceration and then having some type of way to then capture what happens in incarceration so that individuals can be more successful post-release. And hopefully they don't return, but we know that some people will and then you have that record if they do have another instance.
Speaker 1:You know, in mental health I may get this wrong. Somebody will let me know if I do. I think they were soap notes and we used to be able to do soap notes and those would track across nurses, psychiatrists, psychologists, officers we could all see them. It'd be interesting if we could do that with just the regular inmate.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think communication is power, right. And then having the wonderful practitioners that we have we have a lot, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but we have a lot of good men and women who are serving in the capacity, in mission-critical capacity, of COs and POs.
Speaker 2:right Again, like I know the police officers typically like on the LA screens, right, and the movies and everything but man, the work, there are a lot of people who really want to get it right and want to help individuals and I just I always appreciate meeting those CEOs when I go inside of a facility that that gives a darn about like OK, I want John Doe to be successful, you can't be a knucklehead while you're in my facility.
Speaker 1:Right, I hold you accountable.
Speaker 2:But I want, I care and I want you to be successful, and so it's just always refreshing to know that we still have those men and women and we continue to have them and recruit that type of talent across different agencies in this country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you talked about successful and I just put it together. This week has been one of the most interesting examples of inmate success. Josh is it Smith? I think it is that was just announced as the deputy director of the federal Bureau of prisons. He did time and came out. Apparently, from everything I've read, has done an amazing as an entrepreneur and is now going to be part of leading the Bureau of prisonsisons Isn't that remarkable?
Speaker 2:I mean the idea of second chances and people who deserve second chances, like humanizing the experience of incarceration and reentry and then, you know, allowing people the opportunity to be impactful right Like. Josh's story speaks exactly to that. Yeah, so he's a Tennessean and yeah, he's just a wonderful guy. I saw him a couple months back at a Correctional Leaders Association conference and he's doing wonderful impactful work impacting the lives of other individuals who are just as impacted or formerly incarcerated, and so I'm super excited to see how he changes that agency and brings the agency forward, because I think lived experience gives him a different perspective. It's just like I mean, I think of it as my way of being a former practitioner like that lived experience running agencies and having that law enforcement experience allows me to better inform technology, and I think that you're going to see that same correlation and the work that Josh does and the impact that he has. So it is a wonderful day and the fact that he has the background and he's a really great person is just like I, just love to see it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I know that there's a bunch of correctional officers out there going, wow, we can't do this. Um, when you take a look at and just what I've read, uh, he's been extremely successful. Um, yes, he's showing himself to have made a change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, absolutely tangible work like you can't deny that. It's almost like, why can't we do it right? Like why can't we do so? I think we have to. I think corrections, law enforcement, we have to get out of the comfort zone and look, that was probably the hardest thing to break earlier in my career and my ideation about, like how to impact justice systems is this is the regimented way, the paramilitary style that was like ingrained in me from day one and you know, over time I understood that we're dealing with complex people are complex and but for the grace of God, there go, I oftentimes we'll say, in the South, right, so you never know what situations or happenstance leads individuals to their criminal offense.
Speaker 2:But I think that we should open the door and invite them for a possibility of change. And who better? Or a possibility to change? But who better than a person who has proven themselves post-release in ways that we can go back and see their impact? But who better to step in and kind of shake it up a little bit, like let's challenge the status quo and hopefully we will be better because of it? You know, five years from now, we look back and we're like man, that was a, it was a great call and it takes nothing away from those people who, like you and I, who are traditional. You know, you came up through the ranks and and kind of um. You know, like, I think I call it the gritty climb, like I've had the gritty climb, um, there's. It takes nothing away, I think. Um, the collective brain trust in order for us to advance, um, the the area of correction is needed. Why not now, like now's the time?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. What a great, what a great conversation.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:If people want, to get ahold of your uh, and I'll put it down here in the show notes, of course, with links and stuff. But tell people how to get ahold of you and your agent or your company. My fault.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm all over LinkedIn. Um, certainly, please, please, uh, reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to to talk to people and connect with people. Um, secure us and inventive? Um, I certainly we will. We will certainly add those in the in the show notes. But if you Google Securus or Aventa, if you Google my name with the Securus or Aventa, like it will pop up. So we're, we're everywhere, probably in a neighborhood near most of you, and, yeah, I'm open to further dialogue and coming out and talking to anybody about our impactful technology.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come talk to us and I learned a lot about probation and parole and and tablets and your company and I appreciate that. I think a lot of people will be glad to hear it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely have a great day.
Speaker 1:Thank you, hey before we go, I'd like to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors. Omnini Real-Time Locating System is a company I've been working closely with for years. I'm proud to be a part of this innovative team that's developed the best real-time locating system on the market today for your jail or prison. Omni's PREA-compliant real-time monitoring technology is the very best way to track and record your inmate's locations, their movements, their interactions, throughout every square inch of your correctional facility. Imagine getting an alarm the second an escape happens, or an alert that lets you know when an inmate's heart rate drops below a set level. To learn more about Omni, go to wwwomnirtlscom. That's omnirtlscom. That's omnirtlscom. Or you can click on today's show notes to get in the information guide. Omni Real-Time Locating System is a powerful tool specifically designed for the modern correctional professional. If you haven't done so, please take a moment to like my podcast or, better yet, hit the subscribe button so that you'll be notified when the next episode comes out. Thanks for listening and let's be safe out there.
