128: We Can Change How The Public Sees Corrections

Corrections gets judged by headlines it didn’t write, so I’m taking you behind the scenes of a month that reminded me why this profession deserves real respect. From Correctional Officers Week events to national recognition, I share the moments that felt like the “best of corrections” and the lessons we can bring back to our own agencies.

We start at the One Voice United conference (link below), where I join Pete Bludworth (Corrections Unfiltered) and Sarah Robuck (Lexipol and Corrections1) to talk about our jobs and our voices. If we don’t tell the truth about what correctional officers do, nature abhors a vacuum, and the public story gets filled with TV myths, one-sided news, and silence about the good work happening inside facilities. We also dig into wellness in corrections, efforts to get lawmakers to walk through prisons before setting policy on staffing and funding, and a powerful account from New York’s union leadership caught between political pressure and officers pushed past the breaking point.

Then we pivot to the stories many people never hear: the role correctional staff played during 9/11 recovery, and how corrections shows up in emergencies with resources and readiness. I also talk about practical support for staff, including a vendor focused on home loans for public servants that explicitly includes corrections, and the National Medal of Honor for Corrections banquet, where courage and service are honored on a national stage. 

One of the vendors I met at OVU (link below) is a company that is working to get public service heroes, including correctional officers, into houses. American Hero Home Loans uses its Hero Advantage+™ to connect eligible heroes with trusted real estate, lending, title, settlement, insurance, and home service partners.  

We close with training and leadership: field training insights from the Southeast Field Training Officers Association (SEFTOA - link below).  I also share with a new leadership class my framework for handling change by reframing fear and walking through the next door of their life with skill and confidence.

If you care about corrections leadership, correctional officer wellness, and changing public perception of corrections, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share it with a coworker, and leave a review so more staff can find these stories.

One Voice United & The National Medal of Honor for Corrections https://onevoiceunited.org/

American Heroes Home Loans
Corrections Webpage:
ahhlusa.com/corrections

AHHL Flyer:
https://canva.link/theprisonofficer 

Joe Ferraro
Founder & CEO
American Heroes Homes and Lending
631-767-9073
joe.ferraro@ahhlusa.com or joeferraro@annie-mac.com

Angela Harren
Director of Business Development & Marketing
American Heroes Homes and Lending
612-423-4423
angela.harren@ahhlusa.com

Southeastern Field Training Officers Association

https://seftoa.org/

For my new book: Weight of Justice: Leadership Lessons from Inside America's Toughest Prisons: A Correctional Officer's Journey

Michael Cantrell's books: https://www.cantrellwrites.com/

Amazon: https://amzn.to/4utqUSO

PepperBall
From crowd control to cell extractions, the PepperBall system is the safe, non-lethal option.

Command Presence
Bringing prisons and jails the training they deserve!

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Welcome And Correctional Officers Week

SPEAKER_00 0:02

How are you doing, folks? Welcome back to the Prison Officer Podcast. My name is Mike Cantrell. I'm the host. And this week I think I'm going to talk about all the stuff I've been doing with Correctional Officers Week. I guess we can call it Correctional Officers Month if we want to, because it's been several weeks that I've been out and enjoying, I guess I'm just going to say I've been out and enjoying the positivity that I've seen with some correctional organizations and stuff. And I want to share that with you. Some of the great stuff that's going on in our profession. So before I do that, if I if you would, reach down there and hit the subscribe button. That means a lot to this podcast. And if you go ahead and hit that like button if you uh if you like this podcast and you want to see more of it. Let me also take a moment to talk about Pepperball. Pepperball's been a longtime sponsor of the Prison Officer Podcast. I'm happy to have them on board. I I work for Pepperball. I'm a master instructor. So I believe in the product. I've used it hundreds of times. And I can tell you that when it comes to having a tool on your tool belt or on the cart you take downrange, whatever it is, Pepperball is one of them that I have to have on there because it gives me the ability to de-escalate a lot of situations without having to put hands on, without having to put my staff in harm's

Pepperball Tools For De Escalation

SPEAKER_00 1:29

way. If you haven't done so lately, go to www.pepperball.com and check out the products they've got going. If you've never used Pava before, check it out. It's a lot different than OC. You can deliver it at a farther distance than you can OC. So check that out and uh tell them the prison officer podcast sent you. So back to what we've what I've been doing. I hate to admit this. I'm usually up on what's going on with corrections, but one of the things I missed was a uh group called One Voice United. And I had not heard of One Voice United. I didn't know what they were doing. They've been around for a little while now, and they invited me, they reached out and invited me to be part of a panel uh for their next conference. And uh I was happy to do that. I was excited to do it. What made it even better was the fact that they also asked Pete Blouth from Corrections Unfiltered. So Pete was there with

One Voice United And Elevating Corrections

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me, and uh Sarah Robuck from the Lexapol group uh who uh who does corrections once. Sarah's been my editor for a little bit, so we've we've talked back and forth on emails while she's helped me get some articles out there. And uh so it was a pleasure meeting her in person. And so her and myself and Pete got to hang out for a couple of days and see the best of corrections. So I mean that's that's kind of what I'm gonna say. I th I think they highlighted uh the best of corrections in many ways. So, you know, the first day the the conference theme was elevating our profession, which I I I mean, come on, that that's a great theme. That's a great way to go about this. Uh and we started it off, Sarah and myself and Pete. We started it off the first day with a panel. Well, we had a moderator up on stage. It was kind of cool. We hadn't done anything quite like that before, so it was pretty cool. But uh it was our jobs and our voices. And what we talked about was the and I talked about this on the last episode. So if you haven't go back and listen to uh Tevin Dixon when I and I talked about nature abhors a vacuum, right? And if we don't give the media the truth, if we don't reach out and and be part of the story, they're gonna fill it with whatever they want. And you see that right now. I mean, you can go out and watch a TV show about prison or a movie about prison or a news article about prison on one of the major media outlets, and it's almost always gonna be negative. And the few things that Corrections does put out tend to be inmates. Inmates got their GED, inmates did this for the public, but rarely are the agencies really pushing the the great job that Corrections does, the great people that work inside. And so it was what what can we do to make that better? And so the reason they brought us in is because you know, Pete and I both run podcasts, and and both of our podcasts are very positive towards corrections. And and not so much, you know, I don't know if you guys know this. I I get several emails a week with people wanting to be on this podcast. And a lot of them are business leaders. I see you talk about leadership. I can come on and you know, I I can talk to you about leadership. That's not what this podcast is about. It's it's it's about leadership, but it's about correctional leadership from the people who've been there, seen it, done it, right? That's who you're gonna learn. That's who that's who you need as a mentor. That's who uh we need to get to be because because we're different. We're we're not a CEO of a company somewhere that gets to sit in an office. That's not the way our world works. And there are I'm not saying there aren't things we can't learn from that type of leadership, but what you guys need and what I need is the leadership that comes from years of experience doing this job. The other thing I get a lot of emails about is hey, you know, I was an inmate and I want to come tell my story. I do good now, you know, I've started a business, and I write them back and I tell them. I said, this podcast is for correctional staff. That's what I built it for, that's what I have ran it for, that's that's what uh its purpose is, is to uplift and build and train and uh empower and give knowledge and skills to correctional staff. So a very niche podcast, and I understand that, but that's part of the reason that they brought us on. How can we influence media? And this is how I influenced media. This podcast is a direct result of my frustration seeing all the negativity in the world about corrections, and and I thought to myself, how am I gonna I can either sit here and take this or I can stand up and say something? So I built a podcast, and here we are today. But that's kind of what our talk was about. How does that affect the public view, the public sentiment towards our profession? And and Pete and I both do the same thing as far as trying to build up corrections, trying to bring in the people who who make this profession something to look up to, who who bring on the people who train the new staff, who build the cultures, who lead the staff. And uh so that's so important. And Sarah was on that panel with us, and I I want to thank Corrections one. I have several articles printed over there, but I think my first article was like 2015 with them. And they are one of the few media outlets that, you know, they have focused on corrections. They have focused on making this profession better, better and reporting it accurately and giving a voice to correctional staff. You know, almost everybody, if you look in the people who write articles for corrections, Juan, myself, Gary York, uh, Gary Cornelius, all have corrections experience. And so that's so important that they actually are getting some of the information and some of those stories, at least, from the correctional professionals who've done the work. And so that's what that panel was about. How can we affect that? How can we build that? How can we give corrections a better name? I guess that's what I'll call it. So the next section of the One Voice United conference was we had bringing this work back home. And they had some people up there who are doing big things in corrections to help correction staff to help this profession. One of them was a couple who have built a wellness program and they built it for their agency, but now it's expanding, it's going outside of their agency, and they're getting quite a bit of success, going places and taking that wellness program to the people that need it. One of the others, and I I don't remember the name of it right off, but it was

Wellness Programs And Lawmakers Prison Tours

SPEAKER_00 8:18

about, and they were in Nevada. It's a group of uh, I think it's a union group, and they are working hard to bring the legislators who make the laws, who decide the laws that affect our everything, our working environment, our pay, all that stuff, to make those legislators stop and come take a walk through a prison. I've been advocating this for years. If you're a judge, if you're a politician of any level, from county commissioner to president, you should be walking through a prison. You should go see what the results of our justice system are. You know? So many people want to just take take the criminals, put them behind the wall. Now I don't have to look at them. That doesn't mean they don't exist. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be involved in our justice system any longer. So those guys are doing a great job. They're reaching out to their, you know, the congressmen. And I I talked to them a little bit about some of the people that they've had come in. And so they've had congressmen and working on senators and absolutely. Let's bring those people into this conversation. If you're gonna make the laws that determine how much we get paid, or even even on the inmate side of it, if you're gonna decide laws that spend money on rehabilitation or re-entry, at least come through and see if your money's getting spent where it's supposed to. Because I think most of them would be surprised at the money that we're wasting on inmates who don't want it. And they'd also be surprised, in other words, some of the great stuff that we do that they don't see. I visited a prison a couple of years ago that was doing homes for humanity. That's great stuff. Uh, it truly is. But uh if they're gonna if they're gonna put this money out there, if they're gonna budget this money, they should know where it goes, whether it's good or whether it's bad. So more power to them on that, and I I hope that they keep that going. They also had several speakers with some very powerful stories, and I won't go into all of them, and unless you were there, I don't think I could describe some of the how powerful some of those stories were. But one that I thought was very unique, um, they had the the president of the correctional officers union out of New York, and uh he he related the story of everything from the pressure he was getting from the governor's office, the threats even at some point that he was getting from the governor's office to get these people back to work, the the union members who literally have had enough, you know, of multiple shifts of working conditions that aren't up to par. You know, the New York system has a lot of trouble. It's an it's an old system. Many of their many of their institutions aren't safe places to work, and then you have minimum staffing or no staffing, and they're even less safe to work. And so the members had finally decided, look, even if we're not allowed to, we're going, we're going out on strike. And they did. And he was in the middle trying to hold this together between the governor's office, who eventually did, and I don't know the numbers, but the governor's office who eventually fired a large portion of those officers, and the officers who felt like conditions had got to the point that there was no compromise anymore. You know, they their lives and their livelihood were at stake, and they felt like they had to do something, and here he was caught in the middle. And the stress, uh, you know, he told us about some of the health problems that came directly from the stress of what he was dealing with. And uh, very powerful story. I I really enjoyed hearing from him also. One of the other powerful stories that uh I got to hear about was, and I didn't I I admit I didn't know anything about this. During 9-11, when the towers came down, people don't think about where was corrections, what was corrections doing? I'm sure if you ask most people, including me, unless maybe if you were in New York, I'd have said, well, they're making sure the prisons are safe and you know they're taking care of that. But that wasn't the whole story. When you think about a mass tragedy like that and the way it affected that city, who would you look to to have resources, to have the ability to step in in an emergency like that and and bring resources for the people that need it? Well, corrections is one of those we're always prepared for large emergencies. So things like generators, floodlights, things that we keep on hand for you know, large disturbances, unfortunately, body bags. You know, most agencies outside of corrections aren't gonna have a large number of body bags for an event like that. And the other thing they talked about, and I got to meet, and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go into their stories because I'm still hoping to have reached out to them and they want to come on the podcast. I want to have them on here, I want to hear their stories in depth. Uh, Phil Rizzo and Richard Palmer Jr. were both involved in that, and uh, got to talk to them. One of the things I didn't know, you know, from the middle of the country here, I, you know, listened to the news, listened to the media, I heard about guys working the pile, and I guess I assumed that that was, you know, all firefighters or all rescue. A large number of the people working the pile were corrections, were out of the New York Department of Corrections. And and those guys stayed there for days. Some of them I understood for more than 30 days they worked that pile. And and that may not sound like much until you think about why they were there. And they were there to I mean, the the rescue effort didn't bring about a whole lot of rescue. They were recovering people. They were recovering parts of people, they were recovering evidence, they were breathing in toxic powder for days down there doing that. And I'm just surprised I never heard anything about it. Nobody ever nobody ever mentioned corrections in the same breath as the 9-11 recovery. So very powerful stories on their part. Very interesting to hear. And uh, this was all part of One Voice United. One of the other things they had there were vendors. And I got to talk to Angela Heron and Joe Ferraro, and they work for American Heroes Homes and Lending. And one of the things that they said was that they help American heroes, military, law enforcement, fire, you know, fire departments, everybody get home loans. And of course, you know, you know who I am, and I'm like, everybody? And they're like, yeah, everybody. And I, you know, I'm the doubtful, I'm the doubtful guy, because I've heard this over the years,

Home Loans That Include Corrections

SPEAKER_00 15:19

you know. Do you really are you really reaching out to corrections? Because I've been the guy in the convenience store, and the police officer walks up and they hand him a free coffee, you know, oh no charge. And I've never asked for a discount, and I'm not going to. But I walk up in uniform behind the police officer and they say that'll be 225. The public doesn't generally consider us uh to be public safety, to be law enforcement, you know, to get a law enforcement discount. Who's enforcing the law more than a correctional officer? I mean, the officer enforces the law for what, 30 minutes, maybe a couple hours? We do it for lifetimes of these people. Anyway, so I'm a little skeptical, and uh so I start quizzing them. I said, okay, so what's what's the deal? We which correctional professionals do you want to work with? Are the ones that are law enforcement? What about the ones that aren't? And they're like, all of them. I said, okay, hmm, federal, state, yeah. Okay, what what about jail? What about detention officers? What about private correctional officers? Yeah, all of them. We want to work with corrections, and because they consider us part of, you know, public service, American heroes. American heroes homes and lending, you know, they're they're not a lender, but they're gonna walk you through it, and they're gonna support you, and they're gonna help you get the best the best deals, the best service. They they have the connections to get you a home loan. And I talked to one of the guys that was at the conference, and he has gone through them, and and like three days later, he was going to close on his house. And so I we had a phone call. I I went through some of their stuff, then they they told me more about it, and the more they told me about it, the more I absolutely believe that they they want to help you, they want to work with you. It doesn't matter whether you're state, federal, county, whatever. If you're a correctional officer, give them a call, check them out if you're gonna want to do a home loan. And I'm gonna tell you, this isn't a commercial. They're not paying me anything. I'm not paying them anything. It was just something I saw at one of the vendor tables, and I was like, wow, that is something that could that's something that could help correctional staff, truly. I mean, getting into a house, you want to talk about wellness in a family, you know, outside of work. Having a good house, not having to worry about bills quite as much. That's the kind of stuff that I don't know that I think promotes good wellness. I remember when I was working and when I started, my wife and I were broke. We were broke as could be. And uh so, you know, making that house payment and finding a good house to have your family in where they're comfortable, it makes a lot of sense to me. Check them out, tell them the prison officer podcast had them on there and let them know that uh you wanna you want to check out what they can do. I'd love to hear about it. Shoot me an email if if you do reach out to them and and let me know how it works out for you. But uh they really impressed me. They're there for the right reasons. Uh Joe's Joe's father is a firefighter, and that's they had problems with some house loans and stuff when he was younger, and he remembers that. That's part of the reason he got into this, is you know, he wanted to help public service and and American heroes. And so they work with law enforcement, military, firefighters, dispatchers. I know you guys get left out like corrections do, but reach out to them and and let me know. Send me an email. I hope this works out, and I'll have links in the show notes here so that you can go to their website and and get in touch with them. One of the things that I didn't know existed happened on the last night we were there, and One Voice United hosts the National Medal of Honor for Corrections, where they recognize courage, leadership, commitment, you know, across the agencies, across corrections. And so I got to go to that banquet, I got to go to that event. It is so nice. You know, I'm I'm used to seeing somebody get a get a plaque, and then we go up to the admin office and we stand there, and the you know, some admin person stands next to us, the warden or superintendent or whoever it is, and we

National Medal Of Honor Banquet

SPEAKER_00 19:39

smile, and if they're really doing it, you know, it it goes on Facebook. But something nationally I had never heard of before. And so that's another reason I'm talking about this. I want to get that out there. Well, let me tell you about uh, and I I've talked to some of these people about getting them on the uh podcast, so that may still be coming up. But uh the gold medal of honor was Sergeant Julie Teague. Uh, she's from the Moberly Correctional Center here in Missouri. She uh she saved a young girl from being attacked by dogs and was injured herself in the process. But she was the gold medal of honor winner. Corrections officer OB Johnson, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, jumped in the water, saved a person. The bronze medal of honor, Lieutenant Tyler Gaines from Dick Connor Correctional Center in Hominy, Oklahoma. He saw a police officer who was struggling with a suspect, and the suspect was trying to get the officer's gun, and uh Lieutenant Tyler jumped in there and assisted the officer. They also had some other awards, no national level awards, an excellence in corrections award for case manager Dana Mueller, Colorado Territorial Correctional Facility, Supervisor of the Year for John Coleman, North Carolina Correctional Enterprises, Raleigh, North Carolina, and then a lifetime achievement award for Thomas White out of O'Cala, Florida. So what a great night. Everybody was dressed up. The presenters were in tuxes, nice. They had, you know, photographers and everybody was dressed up and a nice meal. It was just great to be part of that and to see corrections celebrated in that way. So if you haven't heard of them, reach out, go to uh One Voice United, uh, check out their website, come to next year's conference, check it out, come to next year's banquet, and come see who's gonna get the I mean there were hundreds of people who were put in for this. So there's a lot of good going on in corrections out there. And it was a pleasure to be part of a group who was recognizing uh that greatness in corrections. So well, let's see what was next. Next, I came home for a day and then I turned around and went to Gulf Shores, Alabama. And I know what you guys are thinking. Cantrell's got a rough life. He went from Atlantic City to Gulf Shores, Alabama, but it's the truth. But I'd been wanting to go to the Southeast Field Training Officers Association conference for a while just to go take a look. You know, last year I worked for Command Presence, and last year I developed a CTO course. It's a three-day course that follows the coach train evaluate method of field training. And I've adapted that for corrections, and I wanted to go down there and hear

Field Training Conference Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 22:26

from field training officers what they're doing and what's working and what's not. And I got quite a surprise. I got down there and I thought I'd be sitting in the back of the room as the only corrections person and just kind of listening and learning. And I get down there and there's probably close to 20 correctional staff in there, correctional trainers in there. And we even, they even gave us, I think the second day, uh, we took a little hour or so and sat down as a group and talked specifically about correctional, you know, what they're dealing with, uh, of course, recruitment. Although I was surprised, there was a couple of agencies that said, you know, at their sheriff's department, the they're having more trouble with recruitment on the patrol side than they are on the correction side. They've had a lot of patrol guys come inside because, and you know, I'm sure there's a lot of reasons, but kind of the stability of it. I think probably the defund police movement has a lot to do with how you know police officers don't feel valued right now. And so they've had several patrol people come inside, and right now the correctional side is more staffed than the patrol side. So I found that interesting. But we also talked about, you know, as correctional trainers, what's some of the stuff that we're looking at? How we build culture with staff, how we evaluate, and how we train new correctional staff. We talked about uh, you know, physical skills testing. Is that something that everybody still does? Certain places it seemed there was no consensus on it. There was a lot of up and down about what level of physical testing there needed to be. But uh, but those were some of the discussions we had. But it was good to see uh that many correctional trainers in one place, and so I was happy to be part of that. They had some great speakers. I took I took lots of notes. I have you know, half a notebook full of notes that I took listening to them and some of the things that uh I picked up from those trainers. So it was very well worth my while. And if you get the chance, uh I'll I'll have the links in the show notes. But Southeast Field Trainer Officers Association, check them out. I think next year's conference is in Raleigh, North Carolina. I think that's what they said. So check that out. That might be something you want to attend. Another thing I got to do was uh just a few days ago, I got invited to speak to a leadership class. Now, when I was in the Bureau, I was chosen as a part of the leadership group who got to uh do a year-long once-a-month meeting and and we got leadership training. We did the John Maxwell books, we we went through all that. Uh, we had outside speakers come in and talk to us about their journey. I remember one speaker in particular, he was an AW and he talked about blind loyalty and how you

Leadership Lessons On Change And Fear

SPEAKER_00 25:28

have to be careful as you move up with blind loyalty, and uh had a very moving, powerful story that still sticks with me today. And uh so to be invited and come back and go back to a bureau leadership class and be able to talk to a new group of upcoming leaders, I was excited to do that. So I agreed to do that. We did it, we did it by Zoom up at Yankton, South Dakota, and what a great class. I I gave them uh you know, I talked to them about change. Right now, change is something they're dealing with a lot in the Bureau of Prisons. And uh I talked to them about how in my mind I reframe change when I when I feel that fear, because everybody fears change. I mean, uh not just people. Move the furniture around in your house and see how your cat and dog deal with it, you know. Change is not something that humans or mammals like. So, how do we uh how do we get past that? Well, the first thing I've learned to do is to reframe it, and I reframe it into a challenge. Okay, this is what's been decided. This is this is the direction I'm going. So my challenge is how am I going to make this the best for my agency and my staff and my peers, the inmates? How am I going to move forward with this and make it the best I can? I don't have to agree with it. I don't have to understand why the decision was made. My job is to make it implement the best I can for the people around me. And that's how I handle change. But change follows you know, fear in everyone when we start talking about change. I talked about my path. Some of it I've talked about on here, you know, uh being in the parking lot at two o'clock in the morning after a week's worth of doubles and 20-hour shifts and not remembering where my car was at, and making that decision that I needed to make a change in my life, that I needed to find direction in my life, and I did. It turned out to be training staff was what brought me purpose and why I continued to keep working in corrections and excelling and promoting. And all of that can be traced back to training staff and wanting to improve the what work is like for them. We also talked about you know, most of the things in life that are good are on the other side of fear. Uh I talk about in my book, Power Skills, you know, my my world has always been full of doors. And not just metaphorically, you know, I've worked in a prison, so we we have doors, everything. I'm I'm a turnkey, you know, and uh I've been offered many doors through my life, and you never know which one to choose. And there's always fear about you know, stepping through that door, what's on the other side? How's that gonna affect me? And one of the things I've learned to do, and then I talked to them about was you know, build your skills, build your knowledge, build your confidence, and then walk through the door and know that you can handle it, whatever's on the other side. Walk through it, handle it, move on. Sometimes those doors led me down paths that I didn't expect. Sometimes those doors led me down paths that I had to fight to get back out of. And sometimes those doors were a gift, you know, that led me to places where I met people and did things that I'm very proud of. So don't be afraid of walking through those doors. And that was one of the conversations we had. So great time with them. I really appreciate them inviting me to be part of that and look forward to hopefully doing it again in the future sometime. Well, you know, I just I wanted to come on here and talk. I I've felt so positive, and you know, I've I read, oh, it's been a couple of months ago, I read where a quote that said, If you only look at the weeds, you'll never notice the flowers. And it's kind of like doom scrolling, right? Um if you do look through corrections and it seems like you only see the negative. Well, I have had a month of seeing the positive. I've seen uh the heroes who stood up and did great things. I've seen the people who are working hard to improve this

Positive Perspective And Book Release

SPEAKER_00 29:49

profession. I've seen the new leaders coming up who are excited about where they're headed and what they're going to be able to do. And so it's been a very positive month for me. And I just I wanted to share that with you. I think I'll leave you with one thing. Uh, speaking of positive things, after many, many, many, many years, my book, The Weight of Justice, Leadership Lessons from Inside America's Toughest Prisons, has been released. So if you would go look it up on Amazon. You can also go to www.cantrellrights.com. That's C-A-N-T-R-E-L-L, W-R-I-T-E-S.com, and you can find my books there. Not only The Weight of Justice, but Power Skills. And then for those of you that don't know, this big gruff guy who's now a grandpa wrote three children's books, and they're also listed there. I'm very excited about finally bringing that book to fruition. It's been a long journey. It's my memoir. So I hope you'll go check it out and enjoy it. Leave me a leave me a review on Amazon or shoot me an email and let me know what you think about it. I'd love to hear some feedback from you guys out there. But I think uh coming up, I've got several of these people I'm going to try to get on here. I'm going to go to Missouri State Penn, which is where my career started. And uh I think we'll talk about uh you know some of those stories in that book and and how that shaped me as a correctional officer. And we'll also have an upcoming podcast where I I talk about the book and uh give you some insight into the stories and where they came about and and how that book came about and the journey. Because this truly has been a journey for me. So be safe out there. Take care of yourself, and I will see you next time.