13: 100 Year Old Prison Officer - Interview w/Robert "Bob" Burks

I saw a Facebook post the other day from the Missouri Patriot Guard and the VFW who were honoring a local veteran with a motorcycle ” drive-by” to celebrate the milestone of him turning 100 years old on September 9 of this year.  

Robert “Bob” Burks, served in the US Navy during World War II from 1942 – 1945.  He was in college at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack and enlisted for service shortly thereafter. He served as a Pharmacist Mate in the Pacific Theater and was interestingly “loaned” to the United States Marine Corps on the island of Samoa to function as a medic helping treat soldiers involved in the brutal campaign to recover the South Pacific islands taken by the Japanese early in the war. Bob was able to return 25 years ago to be reunited with the people of Samoa and be honored accordingly. 

You know, I love our veterans and it was great to read Bob‘s story about his heroic service in the Pacific.  As I continued to read, at the bottom of the post, almost as an afterthought was written: “After his military service, his work included 31 years as a guard at the Federal Medical Facility in Springfield.”  I myself worked at the United States Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, MO for 14 years.  Thirty-one years as a guard at USMCFP Springfield is an absolutely amazing feat all by itself.  

I reached out to the organizers to make contact with Mr. Burks and I am extremely happy to tell you that in today’s episode, we are going to talk with Mr. Burks and hear about his amazing life and his time as a prison officer.

Transcript

Untitled - March 8, 2026

Speaker Hello and welcome to the Prisoner Officer Podcast. This podcast is a place to talk about the forgotten cops in this country's jails, prisons and correctional centres. A place for me to try to make sense of a career spent working inside the fence with some of the greatest people that nobody sees or recognises for the important job they do. 

The other day, I saw on a Facebook post a post from the Missouri Patriot Guard in the VFW who were honoring a local veteran with a motorcycle drive by to celebrate the milestone of him turning one hundred years old on September ninth of this year. Robert Bob Burke served in the US Navy during World War Two, from nineteen forty two through nineteen forty five. He was in college at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack and enlisted for service shortly thereafter. He served as a pharmacist mate in the Pacific Theatre, and then was interestingly loaned to the United States Marine Corps on the island of Samoa to function as a medic, helping treat Marines involved in that brutal campaign to recover those South Pacific islands taken by the Japanese earlier in the early in the war. Bob was able to return twenty five years ago to be reunited with the people of Samoa and to be honored accordingly. You know, I love our veterans, and it was great to read Bob's story and his heroic service in the Pacific. And as I continued to read at the bottom of the post, almost as an afterthought was written after his military service, his work included thirty one years as a guard at the Federal Medical Center in Springfield. I myself worked at the United States Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri. I was there for fourteen years, and I know thirty-one years as a guard is an absolutely amazing feat all by itself. So I reached out to the organizers to organisers to make contact with Mr. Burks, and I'm extremely happy to tell you that in today's episode, we're going to get to talk to Mr. Burks and hear about his amazing life and his time as a prison officer.

 Welcome to the Prisoner Officer podcast, Bob. I'm very excited to have you on the podcast. Oh, well, I'm surprised you're surprised. What are you surprised about? Well, I think to be honored for working in the Bureau of Prisons, I'll tell you. Uh, I was only about twenty, twenty-six years old, actually. Okay. Uh, I, uh, retired early because I had a bad back injury right at one time, and it got worse. I was off for a while and went back to the bureau, but then I decided to retire. Right. Well, twenty-six years is, uh, quite a milestone also for anybody that's ever done prison work. They know just how long that is. You know, we got a lot of ground to cover today, but I guess I'd like to start with, uh, you know, just from the beginning. Let's start with where you grew up and a little bit about your childhood. Uh, where'd you grow up at? Well, I grew up along the Pecos River in New Mexico. Oh, wow. 

A long time ago. I'll tell you. Yeah. I think you told me the other day that, uh, New Mexico had only been a state for two years when you were born. That's right. It was, uh. Oh. Well, my dad was, uh, an oil man. Okay. And, uh, he was looking for oil, and we moved to a little town, and, uh, we got settled there, and I lived in I started school in Sierra Blanca, which was a Mexican, mostly Mexican town down in Texas. Okay. On the border. But mostly I grew up in Carlsbad. I, uh, worked for the, uh, Bureau of Prisons from there. Well, actually, I was with the, um, a security outfit out of Los Alamos. Okay. Of course, it was on the, uh, the bomb, you know, uh, and, uh, I was, uh, I traveled around the country. I had a top-secret clearance. Now, was this after I escorted, uh, was this after the war? Yeah. Okay. So this is after you'd come back from the war. Uh, you're working at Los Alamos? Well, I was working at Sandia Corporation, which was part of Los Alamos, but it was in Albuquerque. Okay. And I was on a top secret. I had a top secret clearance, and I escorted, uh, materials, atomic material around the country. Oh, wow. A dangerous job. Well, sometimes. Yes. Right. We flew. We flew in the old, uh, gooney bird airplane all the time and went hit a number of different places. But, uh, I had just gotten married, and, uh, we were in Albuquerque, and I was gone a lot, so I decided that I needed to get into something else. 

So I took the examination for the Bureau of Prisons at Albuquerque. Tell me a little bit about that, because I know it's changed a lot over the years. What do you remember about the was it a civil service exam or was it a specific to the Bureau? It was Bureau because, uh, they about ruined my reputation in my hometown because they went down and was questioning people even when I was in grade school. Oh, yeah. And, uh, I went to visit, and they said, what kind of trouble are you in? Said these FBI men been around? Yeah, we still do. We still do background investigations. I think that still happens. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Where did you apply? At which prisons? Uh, Leavenworth. Okay. You just applied at Leavenworth. And is that where you got hired? Yeah, yeah, I went to work at Leavenworth. I was, uh, in Albuquerque and hadn't been married long. Just had that little boy. And, uh, I was traveling a lot on that job because I had a top secret clearance. Right. Traveling with the atomic energy. And I was going a lot, which didn't work too well. Knew newly married, you know. So I took the examination for the Bureau of Prisons. Right. And, uh, they told me they were going to call me. 

So my wife left and come back to Missouri to be with her folks, who were there in Springfield. Okay. And, uh, I, uh, finished out there. And then I went to the Bureau of Prisons. About what year was that? Do you remember? Oh, gosh. You're talking to an old man. You know, you got a hundred years there to remember a cross, don't you? I was just wondering. So had you known anybody that worked in the prison system before that? Or was that. No, no, but, you know, it's funny. I came back here. You know, my dad and mother were originally from Bolivar, okay? And they went west, you know, and I grew up in the West, and, uh, I was back here visiting when they opened the medical center right. For visitors when it was brand new. And, uh, my uncle and my dad and I went through the Bureau of Prisons here. Had no idea that one of these days I'd be spending a lot of time there, you know? Yeah. And it it was open to the public for about, oh, two or three weeks. You know, people examined it for whatever. Um, took any, any prisoners, you know. Right. I don't think some of us and I worked at Springfield, but I don't think some of us understand how big a deal that was at the time. Um, for that prison to come into Springfield. Springfield, I believe, donated the land. And. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. How what kind of impact was that on the communities back then? 

Oh, gosh, I don't know. Yeah, I, I know that people were rather leery that lived around it. You know, they, uh, were just leery of having a penitentiary in their backyard. To tell you the truth. Sure. And was that considered a good job back then or I don't know, is with the government. You know, and I quit the government job in Albuquerque and took it, you know. Uh huh. And, uh, I suppose it was probably considered a pretty good job in those days. You know, you had you had good retirement and everything. Right, right. But I had no idea that one day I'd be working there. You know, I was. Oh, I don't know when it opened. I've forgotten. Can you tell me? Yeah. It was nineteen thirty-three. Was when Springfield was back here. That. That would have made me, what, nineteen thirty-three? About thirteen years old when I went through it the first time. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. 

So. So you start at Leavenworth? Um, I started at Leavenworth. Yeah. And tell me about that. What was Leavenworth like at that time? Well, it was a penitentiary. It wasn't a rest home. Right. You know, and everything was, uh, very military-like, you know. You know, there's two penitentiaries at Leavenworth. Yeah. The military, the or the DB is what they call it. The disciplinary barracks. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, when I went to work at Leavenworth, it was a penitentiary. In fact, we had the worst of the country in over there at Leavenworth. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Machine gun Kelly. I locked him up. Remember him? Yeah. And a lot of those old timers, uh, were alive then, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. So. And I know that, um, I kind of wonder, you know, I I've worked as a correctional officer recently, but what was your day like then? Um, I mean, when I walk into a prison now, the inmates are out and they're about. During that time, were you guys. Was it more orderly? Were you marching them? They had assigned seating. I've seen pictures of that at Leavenworth. 

Oh, yes. They went on the, um, meals and things. They marched in and never made a sound. Stayed right against the wall. Single file. Mhm. They'd march into the, uh, and get there. They had little carts as they went in and they'd get their eating irons, as we call them, you know, their tray and everything. Right. And they'd go sit down at the table. Well, actually, we had a counter, you know, to feed them and they'd get their food, and they'd have a hundred, and you'd never hear a thing except just the they're eating. Okay. So they they weren't all very quiet. And then we marched them out back into their cells. So there wasn't any of that. Then at certain times, certain inmates got to go to the yard. In those days. Uh huh. And, uh, well, it was just it was run as a strictly as a penitentiary then, you know? Absolutely. Instead of a rest home. Yeah. Um, so. And I don't know the answer to this question, but were gangs a problem back then? Did you guys have did you deal with that? You know, inmate gangs? Was that a problem during that time? 

Yeah. No, we had no, no no organized. No. Huh. Yeah. That probably was you know, it was all strictly. Well, I don't know what you call it, but they were kept under control. Right. You know, well, if we had a prison camp and they worked over on the Missouri River on the farm, we had a big farm over there, and we'd take these trustees over there, and I spent a lot of time with them. I'd maybe have twenty in my group and I'd take em out in the fields. Uh, we raised all the, uh, food that they ate, had a big dairy up there, and the convicts took care of the dairy, took care of the farms and everything. And we we would have groups that we would take. Right. And we had. The fact is, I run down two of them that escaped. I caught them later on. And, uh, but, uh, it was a well, we had, uh, what did they call that then? Well, it was a camp over there for trustees, you know, that worked in the farms, right? 

What I have heard, I worked at Leavenworth for a couple of years. They called it Two Farm. Does that. Does that sound familiar, or is that something from later on? I never heard that. Yeah, it's still there. Leavenworth still owns that land. It's called. Yeah, well, they had we had, uh, some barracks down there. Yes, trustees. Trustees lived in the barracks down there, and we worked them on the farm. And then we'd, uh. Of course, we had trustees, you know, in the big in the top up there, and we'd take crews down in the buses and work them and bring them back at night. Check them back in. That's so interesting. Yeah. We had a big dairy farm where they milked all the cows and the milk. We sent milk down to the, uh, Springfield prison. Right. It came on the train every day, They would melt down here. And we had quite a dairy herd up there. Wow. I didn't know the trustees did most of that work, you know. Sure, sure. Wow. So, how many years did you work at Leavenworth? Um, I don't know only about, I think around two years. Okay. I wanted to come to Springfield because my mother and dad, my dad and them retired and moved to Springfield during the war because my brother and I were in the service, and they were afraid we might come home, you know, injured and things. Mom and Dad retired and came back here. And he said, I want a place in case you boys want something you know, that you would come home to. 

Sure. And of course, your wife was from Springfield also. Yeah, yeah. Her father was a professor at a university. Um, that would have been the, uh, teachers' college then, which is now MSU. Right. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't work there. He worked at Columbia. Oh, okay. Mu yeah. He was, uh oh. What are they called? Oh, Thunder. I have a good memory, but it's so short, you know. I understand you're talking to an old man. Right. You got a lot to remember. More? More than most people. A hundred years old. Quite a milestone. So you get to Springfield. Did you know what Springfield? What they did at Springfield. Too much that it that they had the mental health before you came down here? Yeah. When I first came down here, we were on more like a penitentiary. You know, we had a, um, part of the penitentiary was, uh, uh, farm workers, you know, on, uh. Where they lived, you know. Right. And they worked in the fields. In fact, we'd every once in a while, one of them run away. In fact, I caught one. They'd run away one time. Yeah. But we had the prison camp, and they were, you know, with short timers, stuff like that. 

But the penitentiary, Springfield, was a penitentiary when I came down here. Really? Because I worked in what we called the North side individual convict cells. Okay. And we locked them that evening, and we had, uh, uh, the very worst of the convicts were in those wells, and we got all the. Just like the old Stroud, the Birdman of Alcatraz. Right, right. They sent him to us when they closed Alcatraz. And we had all the old, old, hard, hard shell convicts in. Yeah, and it was more of a penitentiary than a hospital. To tell you the truth. Well, tell me about Stroud. What? I mean, I've heard that name. What was he like? Oh, that's old Stroud. Well, he was, uh, he lived in Alaska back in Alaska then was a territory. And all the penitentiaries in Alaska was run by the Bureau of Prisons. And, uh, he was a he had a. Oh, I forget what he's doing, but he's a pimp. Huh? And he called this bartender, and he had a customer, and he wanted the bartender to send a woman over to. Well, the bartender shorted him a little money, and Stroud went over and killed him. Oh, wow. Well, anything in, uh, Alaska, then, was a federal because of a territory. Okay, so they took old Stroud and they sent him to, um. There goes that memory. Yeah, but there he killed a convict there, and they sent him to Leavenworth. Uh huh. And then at Leavenworth, he killed another convict, and then he killed an officer at Leavenworth. And they sent him to Alcatraz. And when Alcatraz closed, they sent him to Springfield. So he wasn't the guy that they portrayed in the movie by any means. I'll tell you. 

I'll tell you something funny on that. Burt Lancaster played his part. Uh huh. And I was on the gate when Burt Lancaster came to see Stroud. You know, on account of the movie they had in California, they had this thing free, the Birdman, you know, after the movie. and a bunch of weirdos out free the Birdman. Well, he came to visit him and I was on the gate when he come out. I said, well, what do you think of Stroud? And he said, he's right where he belongs. And he walked through the gate and left. That's wonderful. That was Burt Lancaster, you know. He played the part. Right, right. Yeah. But Stroud had a girlfriend, right? And, uh, his girlfriend's name was Dubois. And, you know, when old Stroud died that afternoon. And at midnight that night, we transferred his sweetie to another institution. Right. Got him out of out of Springfield, you know? Absolutely. Because, uh, cut down on publicity and all that crap, you know? 

Right, right. But the only decent thing he ever done was die. Yeah, I think we've all dealt with at one time or another, those famous inmates that the public perception is totally different than what we deal with on the inside. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what? At Leavenworth, you know, we had Machine Gun Kelly and all them guys. Uh, the times gang and everything when I was there. Uh huh. And, uh, they were long-time locked up, and they they didn't give us any problems. Right. You know, they. But these young, young criminals come in. Would give us more trouble than the old, old, long-term convicts, you know? 

Right. And so that's I guess that's one of my questions, you know, since I've been in prison, we started off, you know, some inmates at some penitentiaries we called convicts and then the popular name was to call them inmate. And now a lot of places call them residents. How did you. Yeah, I tell you. So how did you guys get out of the Prison Service? It was getting too sissified for me. So what did you guys did you refer to him as, inmates or were they convicts? They were convicts or inmates? Either one. Okay. So you used both terms. I wondered about that. Well, you know, I had a nickname out there. Okay. I was trigger Burks. Trigger Burks was that trigger? Yeah. Uh, I was nicknamed that, uh, it was a little bit on the trigger. Quick on the trigger. You know, when the convicts would give me problems. Okay. And they started it. And, you know, when I retired, and I've been working out there all those years, one of the lieutenants come up to me at my retirement dinner, and he says, trigger, he says, what the hell is your name? All they knew was trigger. That's hilarious. And when we had that riot, you know. Uh huh. Uh, I was in the, uh, three shifts there at the penitentiary. 

You know, during after that riot. During the riot. Yeah. That was nineteen fifty-nine, right? Uh, somewhere along there. But my wife called out to the institution because I didn't come home, you know, for three shifts. Right. And she wanted to know if I was all right. And, uh, she says Bob Burks and the man in the control room says, well, who is that? And she says, well, trigger. Oh, Mrs. Trigger. He said, he's okay. You know, so she's even Mrs. Trigger. I'll be darned. Yeah. It was that was my nickname. Nobody knew my first name. That's funny. I know all my retirement dinner. The lieutenant had been working with come up and he said, trigger, what's your name? You know. Wow. So. So tell me what you remember about the fifty-nine riot? It was in ten North. The homosexuals. 

Okay. You know. Yeah. And, uh, they took over that, uh, ten north section over there, and they, of course, Rosendaal a friend of mine, uh, he just died here recently. You may have. You didn't know him? I don't guess I met him once, but I did read. Yes, I did read about Bob Rosenthal. Yeah, he was a prisoner, you know. Japs. He was in prison for Japs during World War two. Yep. A P.O.W.. Yeah. And he was in, uh, he spent most of his time in China in a prison camp. Wow. In China. But Rosie Rosenthal, uh, he was one of the officers that took, you know, they beat him up pretty bad, but he was pretty well liked. And one of the homos in there locked him in a cell and saved his bacon. Right. Well, they had gotten all the keys and everything, and we couldn't get in. So put a bulldozer around there by the ten north, hooked onto the big barred windows, pulled the, pulled the whole thing out, and we went in there. They sent down a bunch of officers from Leavenworth to come and give us all a Billy club. And we went through that door, and we hit everything that moved. Right. In fact, we killed I think two convicts died over that, but we found old Rosie. He was locked in his cell, and they'd beat him up pretty bad. Mhm. And, uh, but it was mostly homosexuals in that whole ten North side. Is that like a protective custody unit? Is that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Ten North, uh, was all single cell. Mhm. You know well you've you've been ten north haven't you. Yes, sir. 

Yep. But uh, there's one section was homosexuals. Okay. Another section was just the, uh, troublemaking convicts who had on single cells, you know. Yeah, yeah. Locked in those units. I've read, you know, some of those a Time Life magazine article, uh, from back then that actually has some pictures of what you described, which is the, the bulldozer, you know, coming around, I think. Yeah. You guys were building the gym. Uh, the rec area is why the bulldozer was in there, right? I think that's what was going on at the time, and that's why. Well, we just hooked on to the. I can't remember whether it was bulldozer or bulldozer was a big, uh, um, road grader machine, I can't remember. It's a bulldozer in the picture. Was it? I can't remember, but we hooked on with chains to the big cell windows they're on because they had the keys. You know, we couldn't get in to the north side. Uh huh. And we just pulled it off, and then we just piled through there about a hundred of us and hit everything that moves. Took your prison back, right? Yeah, absolutely. It didn't take us long to get them subdued. Mhm. You know, but it was kind of hairy there for a while. Right, right. And I think that weren't the hostages I think the hostages were kept for twenty-four hours. Um. That's quite a while. So um I can't remember. Yeah I know they put them on full lock up, you know, but we had we had one section of North Side where the, uh, where our worst convicts were kept. You know the psychos? Sure. In fact, I worked at ten North when I come down from Leavenworth. 

They thought any officer coming to Leavenworth should work in that unit. So I spent about two or three years in the North Side with the with the psychos. Right. Everything you guys do. A lot of, uh, medicating over there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'd go around. We would, uh, we had our own. Well, we officers, you know, did all the medication. That's what I'd heard. They didn't. They didn't have them doctors. They would, uh. Each unit, we would medicate the convicts, you know. And most of the units that we worked in then had a two-cell operation. Mhm. We didn't open the cell unless there's two officers. Right. You know, cause you never knew when one would come out. We've had them come out on us so many times, you know. Absolutely. We had one that he was a Chinaman. I'll never forget him. And he wouldn't come out of his cell. And we'd have to just open the cell and hand him his food. He wouldn't come out of that cell. The only time we would get him out was we had to take him out and let him bathe. At one time. Right. And they decided to put some, uh, some, uh, radio things that come through the speakers in the cell. And the day we turned that radio on, that's the first time that Chinaman ever come out of his cell to eat out, you know, on the mess hall, or we fed him right in the unit. Right. 

You know, those speakers are still in those cells. They still use them today, do they? Yeah. Well, that was all. That was all, you know, top priority. Sure, we didn't open the cell unless there's two officers there, you know. Yeah. And I've seen pictures from the time you were there back in the fifties. And the first thing I notice is that you guys didn't have tray slots. There were no tray slots or chug holes on those doors. You opened the whole door when you had to, uh, feed or medicate or deal with an inmate. Yeah, yeah, we opened the door and handed them their their food. Right. You just had a convict orderly, and we pushed food cart. Wow. And I don't want to sell the time and feed, you know, give them their food. So dangerous without having those tray slots. It's just foreign to me. Yeah, I've, uh, I've had to throw some of them back in. Yeah, a number of times. Uh, every once in a while, they'd jump on top of us, you know? You never knew. Yeah, I got my back hurt real bad. In fact, I was off for quite a while. I was a big convict. I usually, uh, kind of a trusty convict, push food cart and feed him. And we opened this cell and this big. He's a big black guy. He come out and grabbed my, uh, inmate worker was trying to kill him, and I grabbed him. I had to jump up, and I put a chunk a choke chokehold on his, you know, from behind. Sure. And the only way I could control him. And he fell backwards against me, and the doorknob got me right in the spine. 

And I was off about six weeks with the. It hurt my spinal column. Absolutely. And, uh, I've had that ever since to, you know, I was off work about, I don't know, six or eight weeks on account of that. Right. But, uh, it injured my spine. I still have a lot of trouble with it. Wow. But it was just one of those things. Sure, sure. But that ten North, uh, seemed like every time we come, any officer that came from Leavenworth. You know, when I first went to work out there, we had public health, right? And the public health was in one building mostly. And we had, uh, one nurse or two nurses, I guess. Oh, we had the only women working out there. And we used these public health men. They finally, uh, absorbed them and turned them into the Bureau of Prisons as, uh, from public health over to us, you know. Sure. Well, interestingly, we we have public health services that works in the prisons now, is that right? 

Yes. So, probably most of the prisons have at least one or Springfield's got several public health services staff. So yeah, things have kind of wrapped around. Um, so at the time you were out there, the warden at Springfield was a doctor, correct? Yes, yes. So how what did you guys think about that? What did the guards think about having a doctor calling the shots, or was it just accepted? Well, it was accepted. And the doctors didn't, uh, they didn't really mingle with the convicts. They were kinda. You know, we had one building was our, uh, main hospital, um, one building where we had most of your rest of them were psychotic and stuff like that, you know? Right. But, uh, medical one building, mostly. And then eight building was the older colored cripples and stuff like that. Okay. And, you know, we have one all one officer in the desk and one officer in the ward. And then at night, at night, we had them locked up. They just had one officer, you know, patrolling each unit, right? Doing your counts and your. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys do. I mean, it's a common thing for me. Did you do, like, a thirty-minute round that you had to, you know, every thirty minutes or every hour? No no, no. Nothing special. Okay. We, uh. Well, we we were expected to check them. Yeah. We'd have a couple, three checks, you know. Right. And they would have to call a control room and tell them how many we had. You know, it was. It's so interesting just hearing the the differences. 

Do you remember one that was the the worst inmate you had? Well, let me think. Yeah, I had two or three bad ones, but, uh. And you made the worst. Well, we had, uh, of course we had some guys in there that, you know, were. Oh, we had lots of murderers, you know. Right. And, uh, and we kept them in ten over in ten north. We had one unit where our worst convicts were, and it was a two men order to open a cell, you know. You didn't open a cell unless there's two officers there. And that's where we kept our most of our bad ones. Right. It was ten ten north and ten south. They called it. Right. And still do. Still do? Uh, it's still called ten building over there. And the, uh. So let me ask you a question, and I'm kind of coming back to, you know, nowadays, some of the things that people talk about a lot, um, is resilience and the stress of being a correctional officer. Um, so first I want to ask you, did you consider that job stressful? And did you see the effects of that stress on you and your family? Oh, I've, I've seen fellas that, uh, it really got to them. Right? But I guess I'm just dumb enough that it never bothered me. It was. It was a job, you know? Right. And I didn't like it. In fact, uh, I was more than happy to cover that front gate and let it slam behind me. Right. I never missed it for a day. That's interesting. They locked us in. We had an officer in the Carter, and he patrolled the corridor up and down in front of the units. But they lock us in and we had no keys. You know, we couldn't even get in a cell, right? 

Once, you know, say, at six o'clock in the evening or something like that, we had lock outs. And so we had some strange units, some strange convicts, and I'll guarantee you that. Right. So the roving officer would come through and he would lock you in. He would take your keys that you'd been using. That's right. The keys got out of the gate. Uh huh. And then he'd lock. You had the corridor, officer. He walked up and down. We couldn't get in the cell even, you know. Mhm. Why do you think. Why do you think they did that. Well that was so the inmates couldn't take over the unit. Yeah, I think so. Once uh, we'd get them fed in the evening. those cells locked and we put them on course. Out in the hall is where the units where they threw the main switches, you know, in the hall. Right. And, uh, after we'd get them in their evening, get them in their cell and fed and everything, well, that gate was not opened. We couldn't open them because we couldn't even get out of the unit. We couldn't even get out of the units. We didn't have the key. Right. That was in case they took over. They couldn't come out, grab you and come out, you know? 

Absolutely. Yeah. So did you work any of the what we call perimeter posts? Did you work towers? Did they have. Yeah, I worked in the towers. Yeah. We, uh, we, uh, uh, rotated about six weeks at a time, you know. Mhm. Uh, later on. But when I first came down here, we just worked in ten north and ten South all the time. nearly for a number of years. Right? Because that's where we had our worst convicts, you know. So in Springfield, you also had reservation housing, didn't you? Um, for. Was that for the doctors and the people like that? Uh, it used to be a lot of, uh, ones lived on the campus, you know, lived in, uh, on those places. They tore a lot of them houses down there, I guess. But we had quite a few. And, uh, most of the. I run around with a couple of the psychiatrists. They was crazy as I was, so we got along fine. In fact, uh, we were good friends on the outside, you know? Yeah. Uh, when we weren't at work and we had some psychiatrists come in there. There was another in a fruit cake, I'll guarantee you that. Yeah. Oh, I know all of us have a time. You know, where we were? Uh, didn't know if we were going to make it out. And you, you know, you think about that a lot. Was there a scariest time? Was it the riot or some other time, maybe when you were attacked? Well, uh, I never well, of course, uh, I was never, uh, I guess I was too stupid to be afraid. Yeah, but, uh, I, I never, uh, I figured it could work. It might help, uh, happen to somebody else, but it wouldn't happen to me. You know, that's the attitude I took during the war. 

You know, I lost a lot of good friends during that war. First two years when we was taking the Solomons. Right. And I figured that, uh, my buddy might get killed, but I'd be okay. And that's the way I was in the prison service. You know, I just I don't know, I guess because I'm stupid, I don't know. Oh, I think that's just keeping a positive outlook. You know something? Yeah. Don't let the negative get you down, you know? Just always think of the positive and that things are going to work out. Positive. Yeah. And I think that's about resilience there you know. I think that's how people do get through some of this is that resilience that they develop. And that was your way of having resilience. Yeah, I figured it was stupid. I don't think anybody lives a hundred years stupid. 

You've you've seen a lot and you've learned a lot over the years. So let me ask you this question. If you were talking to a, uh, a new correctional officer these days, what what what's the advice? What did you learn from your time and what advice would you give a new correctional officer? Oh, good Lord, I don't know. Uh, well, what do you think helped get you through there? You know, was it communication? Was it, Um. Were you able to communicate with the inmates? Is that how you, uh. Oh, yeah. I had inmates that really liked me. In fact, they would come to me with little items that might that might interest me. You know, this convict that, you know, and, uh, I don't know, I just, uh, I guess it's my just the way I am. Just be who you are. 

I never was. During the war, the only time I was ever scared was the time that we, uh, got into to, uh, an Arctic storm. And we thought the ship was going to roll over. Oh, and, uh, under, you know, under fire and everything like that. I was never afraid. Uh, just stupidity, I guess, you know, a little bit of fatalism. Yeah, absolutely. I guess I guess it's always going to happen to the other guy, you know? And that's where I was during the Bureau of Prisons. Yeah, I just, uh. I never was afraid of any of them. For some reason, I guess. Stupidity. Well, it worked for you. Yeah, I made it. You made it, didn't you? Been a long time ago. A hundred years. That's an amazing milestone. Uh, yeah. And you've seen a lot. So, you know, I'd really like to thank you for, you know, taking the time to be on the Prisoner Officer podcast. No problem. No, I'm not, uh, I'm not tied down with any work right now. Okay. And I'd also like to thank you for your service. You know, both both in the military and to the the government. Um, well, that's. I like that, uh, job with atomic energy. 

I had a top secret clearance. Yeah. And, uh, I escorted. Well, I didn't know what it was, you know? And, uh, I wasn't supposed to, but I run into one time, you know, nobody was allowed on the floor. And one of them old gooney birds, you know, a diesel twin engine. And nobody was allowed on that airplane except me. I mean, nobody, if I wasn't on that airplane, nobody was on it. The crew, even, you know. Right. And we'd landed at an airport, spend the night. They would send out, uh, their Air force, you know, uh, police around me, I'd lock. I had a thing. I'd seal the door on that plane, and nobody got in it until I opened it and went in it. Wow. And I just it was strictly, you know, I carried some, I guess pretty high-powered stuff at one time or another. Oh, I bet I know. One time I landed at this airport, this Navy Army base up in the Dakotas or somewhere. Uh huh. And the commandant come out. And of course, I had a uniform, and I carried a pistol and everything, and he was going to get on that airplane. 

Okay, he says, I'm the commandant of this base, and this is a military airplane, and I'm going to get on it. And I just says, I'll just pull my pistol out. And I said, one more step and you'll be on it. You'll be under it. Why? He said, I'll have your job, I'll have blah, blah, blah. I got back to my base, you know, in Albuquerque, and, uh, the guy called me and said, do you have a little trouble with this guy? And I said, yeah. Well, he says, don't worry about it. Said, we burnt his butt. And the next time I. He didn't have his security out there any. Next time I landed at that airport, he had half a dozen airmen surrounding that plane. 

He wasn't going to get in trouble again, I bet. Yeah, but I was. I don't know, I. A lot of guys were scared to death when they worked in. I worked with some guys that were just nervous as a cat on a tin roof. You know, uh, they were. They finally worked in a place that was that scared all the time. I wouldn't have liked it at all. Right. But I guess I just too stupid. I don't know, I, I think we become used to it after a while, you know? Um, I guess I did anyhow. Yeah. I've worked in several penitentiaries myself, and. And you don't realize until you talk to other people. Um, where you actually do work, you know? Yeah. What do you think? What do you think the public perception was of correctional officers back then? Or or prison guards? Were you considered law enforcement back then or were you did. What did the public think? I never paid much attention to it. I just never that never. Oh, I tell you, wear uniforms. We had uniforms, right? You know, but I never enjoyed a day in the Bureau of Prisons. Yeah. Yeah, it was a job. It was a short, you know, job that I knew I was going to retire. Mhm. And, uh, all I want to do is just put in my eight hours and retire. 

Right, right. And a lot of people worked under strain all the time. You know, I've seen some nervous cat on a tin roof, you know, just they just walked around scared. And that's that's terrible. You know that. And there's a lot of officers I worked with that way. They were afraid of the convicts, right. And, you know, the convict can tell it to, you know, that. Oh, absolutely. The minute they put eyes on you. Yeah. Yep. Well, Bob, I'd like. I never looked back when I walked out that front gate. I never looked back. Retirement was there for you, and you'd done your time. That's right. Did you do anything after, uh, the bureau or did you just retire? Yeah. I worked as a, uh, wagonmaster for caravans in Mexico and Alaska. Wow. That was quite a change. Tell me about that. Yeah, yeah. Of caravan, you know, from motorhomes and everything. I traveled all over Mexico and Alaska for five years until finally, wife. Wife got tired of it, You know, and we we bailed out, but, uh, I enjoyed it, you know. Oh, I bet we did. Of all of Mexico, the Yucatan, everywhere. 

Boy, you've seen some stuff. Yeah, you've seen some stuff? Yeah. Then we've. After we retired, we we've traveled the whole world. We've been to Egypt. We've been all over Europe. Uh, I came down the Nile. I've come down the big rivers in Germany. What is that river? Rhine. The Rhine? Yes. And I've covered nearly. Well, I never got into Russia. I didn't want to go there anyhow. Right. But the wife and I, we traveled all over the Europe, you know, and everything. Oh, well, that's amazing. That's, you know, Ireland, New Zealand and, uh. well, of course I was in New Zealand and Australia during the war, but we didn't go back there. But yeah, but we went back to Samoa. I took her back to Samoa. Tell me about that. They honored you while you were there, correct? Yeah. Oh, I was there for my. Which was a chief, you know, uh, when I first went there, of course, it was military base. You know, the first Marines. We had lots of wounded in there. And, uh, submarines would come in for repairs. I was on their medic. I was a medic, and I had little dispensary out in the jungle. Uh, two of us medics out there, and we had two native nurses. And I traveled all over that island, you know, with the nurses. I'd go to these different villages. Some of them. We had to get in there to them by Outriggers boats to get in there. Some of them we had to climb the mountain to get down to it. And, uh. Uh, I spent, well, about a year and a half there. Two years maybe. And I, uh, quite an adventure. 

And then, of course, when the wife and I went back out there, why, uh, the the, uh, head honcho, the head, uh, Samoan, he had this big, uh, celebration for us and invited the the, uh, heads of the some of the other Cocos Islands. And we had a great, great time, you know. Wonderful. And I thought it was just wonderful. But when I was over there, all I wanted to do was come home. Yeah, well, it was a different time then. You were. You were there during the war. Oh my gosh. Well, you've lived quite a life, Bob. Well, I've been around. Yeah, all over the place. That's amazing. 

Yeah, I've enjoyed it. You know, I never drank, never smoked. And, uh, I guess that's why I've lived so long. Yeah, but, uh, wife and I been. We got three fine boys that are all very successful, and, uh, I can't complain about a thing. Wow. Well, I I'm just amazed by your story. And I'm so happy that you took time to chat with us here on the Prison Officer podcast. So that I can share this with everybody else. Um, any thoughts you'd like to leave us with before I close out? No. Okay. Not that I know of. I know one thing. I'd ever drive by that penitentiary, and I never look at it. Oh, really? When I walked out that front gate, I says, are those that part of your that chapter of your life was over? Someone would say to Fossoli. Fossoli. That means goodbye. Goodbye. Well, I learned to speak. I learned to speak someone you know. Sure. Because I had two native nurses and and I had about five or six villages. It was it wasn't bad, but of course, all I wanted to do was go home, you know, in those days. But the wife and I enjoyed our going back out there. We was honored, you know, and we, uh, we enjoyed every bit of it. 

Wonderful. Well, I'm going to end today's podcast with Tofas Soli. Uh, and I hope to see you again soon, Bob, and talk to you. okay? Hello is goodbye. You know, I can't think Bob enough for taking the time to tell us his amazing story. 

I feel privileged to have been able to do this interview with such a great man who is willing to share a little bit of prison officer history with us. I hope you enjoyed it. Also, if you haven't already, check out the Prisoner Officer podcast on Facebook and click that follow button or leave us a message. And if you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, Google or Spotify, click the subscribe button. If you enjoy these podcasts, you enjoyed this interview. The best way that you can help this podcast grow is to share this with your friends and coworkers. Till next time, I'm Mike Cantrell. Watch your back and please take care of each other out there behind those walls.