Living out the Golden Rule

Join Cyle, Carver, Matt, and Mark as they explore what it means to truly treat others the way you want to be treated. From navigating middle school friendships to honoring people in their final moments, this conversation dives into the heart of building authentic community. Discover practical ways to invest in relationships before it's too late and learn how one church transformed its culture through simple but powerful principles.

Transcript

 Hello and welcome to the fourth floor, which we call the HOTL Cast. 

Hey there. Nobody calls it that. What are you talking about? Yeah, 

not 

yet. 

Welcome to the HOTL Cast. I'm Cyle. 

I'm Carver. 

I'm Matt. 

And uh, yeah, we we're here. So it's a new, a new mix today of people, so I like it. So Cody is actually rescuing, um, someone from church who had a little car trouble this morning.

Ended up creating a power outage to, this is the whole thing, and I'm Mark and Oh, you're, mark. We forgot about you. I, I'm sorry. I 

would say it. And you're just like, Hey. And anyway, 

yeah. Anyways. Yep. But Awesome. Well, hey, mark. Hi. 

Mark over there 

in the 

corner. 

Yeah. He's always in the corner. The, the best part is no one knows Mark's in the corner, so they just think he's in the room.

But yeah, it's, yeah. 

I'm actually on the opposite side of the building. 

Yeah. 

Listening in. 

But cool. Well, that's 

not creepy. 

Yeah. A couple things we wanna talk about today are what's going, some of the things going on in our church. We invited Carver who's overseeing really our middle school and works with Cody and Youth Group.

And, um, we wanna hear about what's going on there. But we talked about the Golden Rule Sunday, so that was a, it was a fun thing. And here's the, here's the kind, the funny thing, Matt, I, I know you listen to the sermon, but, uh, people don't get to see the difference in the three services, which is kind of fun.

So I ask people the question, what do you think of when I think of, when I say the word golden and I anticipated responses, which because it's church, I kind of thought golden calf would come out, never once came out. 

Oh, 

uh, and so. It was, it was just funny which service, the comments kinda aligned with the makeup of the congregation.

So the first service was golden years and, uh, golden, uh, golden Child was in the middle of service and just, just was funny. Golden 

child, 

golden egg. Yeah. Just a lot of things I never even thought, uh, I was like, oh, I didn't even think of these. Like, probably would've got there eventually. But I mean, in my context, I was just thinking about K-Pop, demon Hunter and the song Golden, which we played.

But, uh, it was just, it was really interesting to see the mix of people and the makeup of how. One word can be perceived so differently, which is why we often go to like the original languages of Greek and Hebrew and talk about the depths of scripture because one word can mean different things depending on context, but it was fun to hear about the word golden.

So, um, when you hear Golden Matt, do you think K-Pop demon hunter. 

I can't say that I do, I mean, in, in the HOTL scenario of things, the first thing I thought of was Golden pig. 

Yeah. Because of the, I, no one said the golden pig for the luau. 

So yeah, I was kind of, I was surprised the golden pig 

didn't come out, but.

Yeah, that's gonna be interesting. Uh, what about you? 

Oh yeah, that's the first thing I think when I hear 

gold at all. You're young enough though. That should be the thing. Yeah. That's been it for like 

the last six months. 

Not gonna lie, when I, when I was watching it, I was like, I know he, I know what this is gonna happen here.

He's gonna either, I thought you were just gonna reference it and just sing it yourself. 'cause that's something you would do. 

No. Yeah. 

Played, you actually played the song. I'm, oh hey, be nice. 

A lot of people are sitting there like, what is this? Because they're just not in the know. But if you know, you know.

Golden is an amazing song. It was kind of transformative. But um, yeah, so that kinda led us to the Golden Rule, which we did have someone say Golden Rule, which I thought because it said Rules of Us in the first slide. And then the Golden, you would, people would go to that right away. Yeah, but not, that was not people's go-to.

But the Golden Rule, that is the golden Rule cover. 

Um, treat others the way you wanna be treated. 

Yeah. That's the golden rule. 

And so I love that. That's actually the way we do it in kids' ministry. Exactly. Rather than, you know, K-J-B-N-I-V just 

do unto others 

as you would Yeah, exactly. To 

do unto you.

Exactly. 

Yeah. 

Nicely done. 

Yeah. So like, that's, that's the way I think about it because that's the way I was raised with it. But treat others the way you wanna be treated as the, the kind of the modern version and we just talked about how important that is. Really, we're doing a series. We've kind of, we're revisiting a series we've done before and we're revisiting it in a different way.

Rules of us. Which is kind of based off how I and Patty see kind of our relationship when we've established rules to help govern our relationship. 'cause really the only people that can navigate and govern the relationships are the two people that are in it. Whether you're friends, family, romantic relationships, the only people who can help navigate it are the people who are in it.

And so you're the only two that can govern it. And so creating rules to live by helps you to navigate relationships and know when there's fault, when there's not fault, and really be able to establish healthy rules and boundaries for. That relationship at home, at work, at play. And so that's at school. So that's kind of the, the, the core of this sermon was really just to say, Hey, there's a lot of ways we can have healthy relationships, but if you don't do this right, you're not gonna get any of that stuff.

Right. Yeah. And that's, I think when I, when I look at relationships, um, I think when people meet with me, a lot of times they're not treating the other person the way they wanna be treated. Or should be treated based on God's word and that it's really hard to overcome difficulty and frustration. And so Carver is actually my son.

So if you don't know this, if you're listening, carver's my son. Um, and so Carver, I I often say that I get the opportunity every week to get up and confess my wrongs and sense. Is that a true statement? 

Yeah. I, I would say that that's true. 

Yeah. So that's true. Like, uh, I'm not a perfect person, right. 

Nope.

No, but I'm objectively funny, right? 

Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. He's like, you gonna tell me later now what does it look 

like? He's sitting under an 

interrogation light 

right now. 

This goes to our conversation last night. So I was making comments. I'm like, these are objectively funny comments, so it's okay to laugh 'cause they're objectively funny and not subjectively funny.

So Yeah, 

yeah, 

yeah. So we sure. We were actually having a pretty fun time last night at Home Pup. Uh, and so, I mean, I don't think any of us are perfect. And that's the thing about. Understanding and establishing rules to navigate who's right, who's wrong, and things of offense, of frustration, of, um, mistakes, sins, those type of things.

Yeah. So we can navigate. And so, I 

mean, that's one of the first things I remember when you came to our church, you talked about, 'cause like I was always like, oh, pastors are like. Do everything right and never make mistakes. Here're like, oh, I've got sin. I mess up. I make mistakes. I'm like, what? 

Yeah, 

the pastor, what?

Wait, really? I thought they never did anything wrong. And now I know we definitely do so, but like 

nobody knows you. It's 

me. Go Mark. No, I didn't mean that, Greg. Wild Mark. I meant like as somebody who is a pass. This is last Mark's last podcast. Oh gosh. It sure is. Um, but 

the separate spots are great. It's fine.

I'm in danger. Um, no, but um, no, 'cause like we're just trying to do our best to be faithful with what God has given us, and that is this opportunity, this church, the people that are here and loving people through it and being open and being honest, like being genuine. Like, that's part of those relationships and being like, yeah, I make mistakes and I'm gonna try to work to do better when I, when I do make mistakes.

Right. So I don't do it next time. 

Yeah. I think that's the thing, recognizing when you wrong someone or they have, feel, feel you have wronged them and, and then making it. Right. And so, and I mean, you were, you were the one of the few people that are still here. Since when I came, like I've been here 10 years as of May.

Yeah. 

And so Mark, you were 16? No, 18. 

I was 16 when you came to the church. 

16, yeah. 16 when I came. So, 

and there was like, I remember it got down to like 20 people. Like, like, 

right. Yeah. Right before I came. It was in the thirties, I think. Yeah. At one point. And so. We, and there was a lot of drama, as you remember.

It was, it was some days of drama before I came, and so we immediately re had just said, um, I came with a mandate from our denomination to like immediately change things. And so the first thought was, okay, let's just establish a brand new culture and, and let's go with that. And so we did, we, we created rules to live by, which is the culture of honor.

That was like week two of me coming. We launched that. Yeah. And uh, people love it now, but people hated it when I launched 

it. We really did not. 

We are not gonna live by this. We are not gonna do this. I'm like, well, this is just guy's word. Uh, I don't understand why this is such a problem, but things have changed dramatically as a church and we have really.

Come a long way. Yeah. And just trying to intentionally create rules to help us govern what it looks like to be a community that's loving, that's welcoming, that's kind, that's forgiving, and I think that helps us here. But it's fun. You know, somebody came up and asked, um, Lisa, Matt's wife and I Sunday for the Culture of Honor, we have these little business cards with with it on it that you can hand out.

And they were looking for 'em. And we've, we've had it out hundreds of those over the years. Oh yeah. I think it's just 'cause people are like this, this works. Let's take it into my workplace and let's take it in our home. And it's such a simple thing. I didn't create it for that. It was just kind of like we had to fix what was broken here.

Mm-hmm. 

But it's been fun to see how that goes, you know, throughout the community and across age groups. Like I don't think you, you just have to be older and adult to recognize things. I mean, Carver as someone who is really working with our middle school students, and you've worked with our children's ministry now for.

I don't know, 5, 6, 7 years. Seven. Um, yeah. How, how do you see this being something that's important in those younger age groups as well for them learning kind of the golden rule, but also how to treat each other and how to have a kind of a culture of honor? 

Uh, we just, we just kind of, we dived into this a little bit more on like just previously Sunday night we kind of talked about how.

The middle schoolers, they love to make fun of each other and pick on each other and joke around. They do it constantly, nonstop to each other. And like if you're looking at it, they, it can look like they're bullying each other, but they absolutely love it. But then we also talked about how you have to strike a healthy balance.

'cause we kind of talked about how you have to treat them the way you wanna be treated. And if you're always just bullying, you guys are just always making fun of each other. But then we kind of took it to another deeper level where we're like, you have to strike that balance where you're, you know, you can pick fun 'cause that's what you guys do, but also you have to be uplifting care about what you.

You know, that people care about, care about and, you know, support each other. Like somebody comes and tells you, you like, oh, this is really cool, or tells you something they like, don't just make fun of 'em, but be like, Hey, that's also really cool and like just remember to take those moments to have, strike that healthy balance of like, yeah, you can pick on each other, but like also make sure you're actually caring about them and you're showing up for them and you're supporting them with what they need and what they want and what they like.

That's a good, that's a good one. Yeah. Like that's a great teaching. I mean, I think that we need to do more of that. I mean, I think we all like to rip on each other. Uh, I mean, we often will say, if we're not making fun of you, we don't really like you. So that's kind of a thing like in, in our group of friends.

Right. And I think 

that's friends. 

That's, that's healthy, right? I think that's healthy, especially for guys, that's a healthy way to confuse 

me at first. Because I was never used to that. And I'm 

like, 

why are you making fun of me right now? 

Why are you talking about my cats? 

I love my cats. 

But I mean, that's the thing about, I love when someone says a really creative, funny crack that's that they've taken time to think, oh, that's really clever, that's witty.

And it's about me and I don't really care. 'cause if it's funny, it's funny. Um. It's hard when you hear them repeating that over and over again in other people, and people are like, someone's okay to me and said this about you. It's like, well, maybe that's not funny. Maybe that's actually how they feel. Like, I think privately we should always be building up the people, encouraging, supporting them, but you, you can make the the fun jokes to each other as long as you're making sure to build that person up first and foremost so that you can have those fun moments.

And I know that's not necessarily if you're, if you're a woman and you're. A listening, you're probably like, why would guys do that? I mean, that's just, it's kind of more of a guy thing. I'm sure there's ladies that do it too. But it's definitely more of a, a thing. And, and just in my experience in kind of the sports world and hanging out with middle school guys and now, uh, growing up and, you know, I'm still, I think I said this to Carver the other day, I'm still a middle school kid at heart.

Like I really am. So when the middle school kids are hanging out with Carver at my house and I listened to the other room, I was like, yeah, that was really funny. That was a great, that was a great funny comment. Some of this stuff is just really dumb and I remember, oh yeah, those middle school days are like, there.

Like, you know, when they don't shower. Yep. You know, stuff like it that gets me. Um, we're gonna have start requiring kids to shower before they come over. That's gonna be my new, new thing. You guys need to shower if we go to my house. Like, it smells like a locker room in here. Um, but it's just, it's really cool to see no matter what age we are, the way that we treat others matters.

And I think, you know, I said Sunday, like, the way you treat people matters to God. It really does. And you know, Matt, as you've. Just had a huge funeral service for Cyle Sho at our other campus. 

Yeah. 

You know, we see some of that lived out on how people were in relationship with Cyle and really walked through seasons of life with him.

So how did, how do you think. Kind of the way we treat people, people really comes out in moments like that. 

It's, it's hard to, it's hard to say this like this because of how fresh and raw something like this is, but you look at somebody's funeral where they've lived a hard life, where they've just kind of been through the ringer with just the way things have gone.

Whether it's, you know, war related things, PTSD, just whatever the situation is. And you see that at their funeral, the room is packed. Mm-hmm. Just absolutely loaded with people. And you look around the room and you kind of wonder did they even know? 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

And that is the hardest reality for me, like I've done.

Hundreds of funerals. That 

was my thought when you told me 108 people showed up. 

Yeah. 

That was my immediate thought. I didn't say it to you, but like did Cyle even recognize that? 

Yeah. 

That many people cared about it, and that's my concern is he didn't recognize that that many people loved him deeply. 

And that's the hard part about it, is you see that after the person is gone, but.

At that point, it's too late to demonstrate that. Like where are you when people are going through the things that they're going through, what is your level of investment and involvement in their lives during the midst of rather than after everything is over. Yeah, and I think that that. Kind of speaks into everything that we're talking about here, where if you're gonna care about another person and demonstrate that you love them and show them that you care and you wanna treat them the way you want to be treated, that means investing in them before that final moment.

Mm-hmm. Where you're, well, I'm here to pay my respects. Well, let's take the time and do that while the person is still able to receive that rather than after it's too late. 

Right. Makes sense. And I think that's, that's a challenge for all of us, and we just don't need to treat people well. In the moment, we need to treat 'em well over time.

Mm-hmm. We need to make sure people know that they're loved, they're considered, they're cared about. We have empathy for them. We, we see them. And I think that's a lot of what we teach. That's what the Bible espouses mean. Jesus saw people, he loved people. He cared about people, he had empathy for, for people.

And we're supposed to mimic Christ in our relationships. And whether it's a relationship that's romantic, platonic, familial with an enemy, with a stranger. Like we see Jesus do all those things. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the challenge for us. And you know, really Carver speaking to our young people, you and Cody have the onus and more you mark too.

'cause you're working with a lot of middle school and high school students as well. 

Yeah. 

You guys have the onus of teaching the next generation to do those things better. Yeah. 'cause it's, it's, it's a little crazy in schools these days more so than I think ever because when, when we were growing up, I would say Matt and I were growing up.

You, you had to say things to people's face or at least behind their back. You couldn't put it in the internet. So like ultimately, you know, now kids can say things and they can do harm to each other in ways that are just often really just diabolical and, and, and horrible and, and you know, that it could just spread like wildfire.

And I think you really have to figure out like, if we can, if we can do better and teach kids and teens to do better. Um, it just makes the world a better place in our community, a better place. And so, 

I know I was talking about like living out, like loving people and using your gifts for other people.

'cause I think what happens is we kinda get caught up in our own worlds. And we get like selfish and arrogant at times. 'cause I know what's happening with me. I know what's happening with my life and I don't always see all the pieces that are happening in other people's lives. And so, like especially last night when I had youth group, I was trying to encourage the kids, like, think about those other people.

Think about the things you can do, use your gifts for somebody. Like some people are really good at catching details and seeing if somebody's off. Like be that person that's like, Hey, how are you doing? Like are you. Are you all right? Like is something, it looks like something's going on and you don't know When you stop just focusing on your own problems and you start being like, how can I love other people around me too?

It like it adds a new level to it and it becomes not just what you're doing, but something you're doing on purpose. It becomes not just what you naturally do, 'cause it's easy to think about your stuff. But you have to make an effort and an action and a choice to look at somebody else and be like, Hey, I care about you.

I want to find out what's going on with you. I wanna walk with you. Right. That's an active thing you have to choose to do to let that person know that they're loved. Mm-hmm. And so like I love, like that's something I was talking about. I was like, if you're good at baking, like bake some cookies and just bring them to people.

And one of the students like, I can't do that 'cause I eat all the cookies. I'm like, well then that's not your thing. Find the thing that you can do that you can, you can love people with. And. Take it and run with it. 'cause people need to know that. People need to see that they're cared for, they're loved, they're valued.

And it takes going out of your way sometimes, most of the time, pretty much all the time for people to see that and know that. 

Yeah. And I agree, and I think our challenge we gave some of the students, especially middle schoolers, Sunday, was like. We asked them like, when was the last time you said something genuinely nice to your friends?

And they, they struggled. They struggled to come up with like, they were like, uh, I don't know. And it was like, so that was kinda the challenge this week. It's like, well be nice to your friends, care about them. And they're like, that's, that's awkward. That's weird. I'm like, you don't have to go up and give 'em a hug.

But I'm like, start off small and it'll get easier over time and it won't be as awkward. I'm like, but just go and generally show you care about your friends instead of just like. I mean, they're not being mean to their friends, but it's like, go and show you genuinely care about their interests and what they care about 'cause mm-hmm.

They don't, they don't talk, they just joke around all day. They don't have any deep conversations. I'm like, just go. No, no. Go ask them. Like, Hey, what's something you're really interested in lately? And show some general in, like, show you're interested in what they care about. 

My best, my favorite thing to do after youth group is, and my, my middle schoolers hanging out with his friends would be like, ask him a deep question.

Like, what does so and so think about this? I. We don't talk about kind of stuff. So like I think you should, right? Like yeah. At some point you have to go from just making fun of each other and goofing around about stupid stuff to like actual real content and like go deeper. And so I think some of us adults have doing it.

It's way easier to respond to someone making fun of you. Well that's a good one. Ha ha. Than it is to, like someone say a really nice comment, you're like, I don't really know how to respond to that. 

Right? 

Because that it just makes you feel awkward. The other person feels awkward 'cause there's no real conversation.

Uh, I think the, the, the best response I've learned is just say, thank you. 

Thank you. 

When you don't know what else to say. Thank you. 

Yeah. Thank you. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 'cause I don't, 'cause I think it's such an uncommon thing. It does feel weird, but I, I, I personally like things when they're a little awkward, like, not like crazy awkward where everyone's like, that was weird and nobody's liking this right now, but like, where it's like, I don't really know what to do with this information I've been given and I didn't process it.

'cause I mean, you grow and your uncomfortable, right? And so when there's an awkward situation and you're like, uh, how do I use this thing? Thank you for saying something nice to me. Like Bri and I have been working on it where we, like, when we compliment each other, we're just like, oh, thank you, I appreciate it.

Or we'll like, say, say something back. That's nice. 'cause at first it's weird. Like I remember I'd compliment, I heard you be like. Okay. Mm-hmm. I'm like, I'm like, 'cause it's not common, it's not happens often like with the middle school boys. Like it's funny 'cause like they're goofballs but like, I like the push of like say something nice to somebody.

'cause once you get like, have that happen, it's actually, it is nice though, even though you don't know what to do. There's like a little bit that's like, that was really, that was really nice. I don't know why they said that, but I appreciate that. Yeah. I've had that happen plenty of times where Right In my day, so, 

yeah.

So say thank you. Say nice things. Make it a challenge this week to go at, I mean, our challenge at church with a service was, you know, go and, you know, we prayed for each of us to be challenged by God, to have a moment where we have to choose to do the hard thing. 

Hmm, 

to live that moment well for the Lord, where someone's gonna just challenge you, try your patients, and you're gonna have to really actively treat that person the way you wanna be treated in that moment.

So I hope you all are. Struggling through that. I pray that is the same for you and me. So, uh, 'cause that's the way we grow, right? Like, if we fail, then we recognize I didn't do that. Well, I need to do better, Lord, gimme another chance. Uh, you're gonna get plenty of chances to do that. And I think what we could challenge on the podcast this week is go further and go say that thing.

That is unsaid. Go, go. Say that appreciative comment that that nice comment to someone in your life that you maybe are struggling with. Maybe it's somebody you're just at odds with and just go, go. Instead of being frustrated, just go say a really nice kind thing that you mean. Don't make it up and see where it goes and, 'cause that's.

That's what models Christ. 

And as I think about this, this is something that I've seen you demonstrate over the years many, many times. Whenever you know, you're talking about rules of us and the way that you kind of engage and the way that you kinda walk through stuff a. I had told Lisa before we ever got married, I said, I want you to know, I said that Cyle and Patty's marriage, while not a cookie cutter example for everyone, is something that I look at and I kinda hold up as almost an ideal in some ways.

And she said, well, what do you mean by that? I said, not that we should model. Everything after them, but that whenever you look at how they interact with each other and how they communicate with each other and the honesty and the integrity, and the partnership and the teamwork, I said, all of that stuff matters.

I said they always take into account what each other is thinking and what each other is feeling. Not always to a perfect level because I 

try to be way too funny. It gets me in trouble way too much. You can ask Carver. 

I mean, I, I think back years ago, whenever she'd be on the phone with you trying to get information, you're like, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

And it, it's stuff like that where I said, I hold that up as the ideal. Not that their marriage is perfect, but they, they kind of have the idea worked out and they have it kind of understood for the way those things play out. And if you can start. That in your closest relationships, taking it from there and expanding it out to the relationships beyond that, it's gonna be the way you're gonna be able to grow that mentality with every person that you interact with.

So it's no longer just, okay, I'm great at kind of figuring this out with my spouse, but I'm kind of terrible with the people around me. You kind of use that as the training ground to be able to then move it out beyond and further and further from there. There. 

And the funny thing is our, like our kids pick up on things and become like us.

And so there was a moment I was on the phone call 'cause it, like, Patty will ask me like a question. I'll like, okay, answer the question. Okay, goodbye. Because I'm in a meeting, usually I'm in a meeting and I gotta go. So I'm like, okay, goodbye. And like, I still wanted to talk to you, have four questions and like, okay.

And then I answered, bye bye. And so I was talking to my daughter one day and she li I, I asked her a question. She was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bye. And, and I hung up. And I'm like, oh, that's what that feels like. That's exactly what that feels like. 'cause she's a lot like me. So, um, so, uh, yeah, then I learned maybe I should not do that.

So yeah, that's how that feels. But I just train a child, I just kinda laughed about. I was like, Ooh, that's probably for me. Um, you, so I think just as a church, we're trying to be a church where we, we have good relationships. They're not always gonna be. Like cozy or cheery, sometimes they're gonna be rocky, but you can work through it in a way that is honoring to God and honoring to each other.

And so that's, that's what community looks like. If we honor God and we honor each other, we love God and we love people, life, life is just better and a community is better for it. So. Carver, anything you wanna say at the end about your ministry and what's going on with the middle schoolers? Because the people don't know, like our middle school ministry right now is thriving.

Those kids are thriving spiritually. It's been fun. I mean, they're like inviting friends to church from like, they're blowing up Mark's youth group, your youth group, your events. Can you kind of give us maybe like the two minute rundown here? 

Um, it's been going really, really well. We've started doing a cereal, breakfast, social on Sunday mornings to help.

Just give them more opportunities to connect. 'cause they're just, they just want to connect and be together all the time, which is absolutely amazing. Um, we were growing very steadily, which was great. But I think the even better part is now that we're at a higher number, we're seeing the relationships, like they're growing deeper with each other and with God, and they're asking better questions and they're questioning things and they're starting to really focus on like.

Where they wanna be, what they wanna do, and what they believe, which is, I think, even cooler than having, you know, 60 kids every Sunday to having these kids who are really understanding it, really getting it, want to live in community together and want to grow together to, and hold themselves to a higher standard, which I think is just amazing.

So like, everything's just been going absolutely wonderful. The numbers are great, the relationships are great, and they're, they're really getting it, which I think is the coolest part. 

Yeah. What are you most excited about for coming up with the middle schoolers? 

Um, I'm really excited for this Sunday. I mean, we're doing a Super Bowl party and we're playing NCAA Madden before church, which is gonna be fun.

So open to beat the middle schoolers, but they usually beat me, so 

yeah. 

That's great. Yeah. You're not very good 

at football. 

Yeah. No, not at all. It's bad. I throw a lot of interceptions. 

Yeah. 

Average seven a game, but anyways. Um, so yeah, that's just, it's just fun to have those moments to connect and hang out with some of the kids and give, have another opportunity to connect with some kids who are.

Into those kind of things, those athletic games that don't come to some other stuff. So 

great. 

That's, that's gonna be a lot of fun 

if you have middle schoolers, uh, get 'em plugged in. Um, I'm telling you, as a parent of middle schoolers, our middle schoolers are thriving right now. I mean, you, you're a parent middle schooler too.

Yeah. They're at everything. Yeah. Like if it is church related right now, they will go to it. It doesn't matter. Yeah. They're into it. They 

love it. And if they can keep that energy for the next few years and get into high school, like, I mean, it's just, it's gonna be so much better for those kids to have each other and all be growing in the Lord together.

And pushing each other. And so I would encourage you find a way to get your grandkid your kid into the program, get 'em connected to the Carver and Mark and Cody and what they're doing, and be just enjoy watching it from this side. They're gonna say a lot of goofy, weird things, but it's all, it's all about building community.

And, uh, we're just, we're excited about what's going on. So thanks, Carl, for all the effort. And if you're, if you're listening, we'll catch you on the next episode. Hopefully from our new house soon. Our new huddle house before too long. So. We will catch on the next one here. Our Heart Lakes hot cast. 

Yeah.

See ya.