Healthy Conflict Resolution

Join Cyle, Ryan, Cody, and Mark as they navigate the messy, hilarious, and deeply practical world of relationship conflict resolution. What starts as a conversation about viral slap-fighting videos quickly transforms into honest insights about healthy communication, the importance of trusted mediators, and why rock-paper-scissors might actually be relationship genius. This episode offers real-world strategies for couples who want to fight fair, resolve conflicts with grace, and build marriages that last.

Here is the link to the Run Nation Club Video Cyle was talking about if you're interested

Transcript

 Hello, 

and welcome to the 

HOTL cast. I'm Cyle. I'm Ryan. And I'm Cody. 

And I'm Mark 

Mark's got a brighter future head. 

I have a brighter future. Oh, the hat. I was like, what is that for? Oh, 

because your hat says brighter 

future. My hat Sure does. 

Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

It's from 

Why is future small and brighter is massive?

I have no idea. I didn't think to ask Lindy when they were at, uh, uh, winter Jam two years ago. 

Oh, okay. 

You know, when we were looking, when I seen it in the other room, are we supposed to know who that is? I thought it said fighter future. 'cause I, I couldn't see the fighter future. I was like, I was like, I don't get that.

Can I tell you my new, my new guilty, um. What do you call it? Guilty pleasure. 

Guilty 

pleasure. 

Did, you know? Okay. So I, I, I like when I watch it on TikTok and there's like slap fighting 

Yes. 

Where they just like, it's like arm wrestling, but you slap each other as hard as you can. 

Yeah. Yeah. That sounds 

like fun.

Have you seen, have you seen these videos? Yeah. Like, 

they stand next to each other. They, they 

hold, they hold up. They hold like the arm wrestling thing. And then they just stand there and they just gr like growl each other and the guy just slaps 'em open hand slap, and they, you can default, like if you hit 'em with your palm first, it's a whole, it's a whole thing.

Guys will get knocked out, but they can get back up and then like it's guys just go down. So that's like been a fad. And then so I've seen that. I was like, but I've seen a lot of those and they kind of, after a while it looks like the same thing. One, I don't know why you just do that. Like it's not a my, you are like, you might as well be a boxer.

But there's a new one and I love it. I found out last night it is the, the run club and they, it's the RNC. It's like the, yeah, it's the run club. And they literally, it's rugby and they hold a rugby ball and they're standing on turf like, I don't know, 30, well, probably 30 yards total, so 15 yards apart, and they run as fast and hard as they can.

It's all marked down. And they hit each other as hard as they can and they just crush each other. Guys get knocked out just, and guys try one. Guy's trying to tackle one. Guy's got the ball, they do like multiple rounds and switch and it's insane. They're hitting so hard. 

So I'm gonna go back to, and I'm gonna say this and I said this to teenagers for the better part of 10 years, just because it gets a lot of likes and views doesn't mean you did a good or smart thing.

I dunno, I kind of love the run club. 

Yeah. 

Is this a one-on-one thing? Yeah, it's one-on-one. It's a lot of Polynesians. 

It's like, it's like, and they're Oklahoma drill. They 

rushing each, 

it's like the Oklahoma drill on steroids. 

It is the Oklahoma drill. 

It's like the rugby 

ball. Yeah. And they are literally crushing 

each, you just go like, you can just, you just like, I watch, I saw it on 

Facebook.

It 

just 

came, came up in my second. I get secondhand sore. 

You've seen it? 

Yeah. 

It's the run club. 

See, I'm thinking like 

the, 

the skinny little guy is gonna win that just 'cause he can get away from the big pollination. 

No, no, no. The whole point is to hit each other. There's no dodging. This isn't like, so the guy with the ball Doesn home drill is like you can dodge This is literally, they're hitting each other.

They're running at each other full force. Oh, 

they're like 

starting 

off. 

Yeah. Dude. 

Yeah. So I sent this to Carver. I 

just go like, 

oh, it's run. 

It's 

Run Nation Club. 

I hope your dental run Nation great. 

So like I got the volume off. You can't hear it, but like watch this, watch this video. These guys hitting.

Man, that's so captivating. Everybody who's listening, everybody who's listening, they're on a field. 

They're on a field. 

They're on a field. They're talking, they're looking at each other. They're, they're 

that guy pointed at 'em. For sure. 

There's cameras, there's lots of people. 

Do you know what my favorite thing is?

They just knock 'em down sometimes. Sometimes they get knocked out. I think you'll agree with 

that. Cyle, can you send me the link to that? 

Yeah, it's on, it's on Facebook. 

I'll put it in the description so people can see what we're talking 

about. I don't know. I don't know the, I don't know the language. I got the volume off.

Oh, 

hey, 

I'll double 

check it too. Do 

you know what my favorite is in those? I think you'll agree. The sound it makes when they hit each other. 

Oh, it, it sounds like two trucks hit. Oh 

my goodness. And you just hear, it's like, 

here's my favorite thing though. I've seen now I started watching, I sent a couple to Carver 'cause he's in a rugby.

Like, he's like, I'm not doing that. Like, that would be awesome. 

Yeah. 

But like one of the moms commented, he is like, that's my son. And he, he's so awesome. And he is like, it's a video of him knocking out like one of the biggest guys, like the strongest guy in Polynesia. Uh, and uh, he just knocks him cold, like just running into him and hitting him.

And it's just like, I was like, your mom is so proud, buddy. It's awesome. So like, that's, yeah, I wanna be that proud. I want my kid to go do it. Knock someone down. Not gonna be that proud. But that's rugby. That's 

so you, you're not currently that proud of your kid? 

Well, I mean, I wanna be that kind of proud. I mean, I've, I've been admitted.

I've admitted it. I like sports where people hit each other. Like that's, yeah, that's kind of my thing. So I don't, like, I'm not into basketball. People don't hit each other in basketball, so, um, baseball, they don't, sometimes they hit 

each other. I mean, in women's basketball, they hit each other a lot. 

Yeah. I, yeah, I don't, 

they're violent.

Yeah. Don't, 

they're actually more violent than the men. No joke. I'm not even kidding. 

Wow. I've 

never, but they pretty much all just hit Caitlyn Clark. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Okay. 

True story. 

Didn't know you were watching a bunch of women's basketball, but that's cool. 

I mean, learn. Yeah. I'm a supporter. 

Yeah. 

I mean, I'm a supporter.

I support women's sports. You don't, 

I, I'm a Calin Clark fan. 

Wow. 

Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. Yeah. I mean, I got on, I got on the Caitlyn Clark train like everybody else, so. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, it was cool. So her story was awesome, but that's not what we're talking about today. So yeah, thanks for talking about we talking my run nation club to women's basketball.

That was a, that was, that was a 

leap. 

It wasn't, it wasn't that actually leap. You were talking about basketball. 

Don't hit evil. KL couldn't make that leap. 

I mean, I don't think that was a leap. You literally said, I don't watch basketball because they don't hit, and I said, women's basketball, they do hit each other really hard.

Boom. I don't think that's a leap at all. 

Let's, let's talk about mic drop. 

Let's, 

let's talk about real, 

yeah. 

Real. Fighting, speaking 

of segues, 

uh, rules of US relationships. Speaking 

of this next topic. 

Yeah. Um, 

what a great segue. 

What a great segue into relationship counseling. Yeah. Um, you ever, I think I'd be, actually, you know what, maybe we should do an event where relationship counseling is you just give your spouse a ball.

Separate 'em out with turf by 30 yards and just say whoever's left standing wins the argument and just run as hard as fast you can tackle relationship Nash. 

I think 

that's a really bad idea. 

I think there, Charlie, I think there are at least a dozen reasons that that's a terrible idea, Cyle. And actually for legal purposes, I think that we need to make sure on this podcast, it's like an 

upgraded version of rock paper 

seasons.

We need to make sure, I'd like to, for legal reasons. This is a joke and none of the views expressed on this podcast are represented. I don't know. 

I if Patty was like, if Patty like tossed me ball and said, bring it. I like, winner, winner gets the, the, I would never win this argument. I'd be like, let's go.

That'd be, that'd be fun. 

I would never. 

Yeah. 

Never. 

I think, I think Bethany, she might surprise you, Cody. I think Bethany would surprise you. She's, she's wire, she's wiry. 

I was thinking the same 

thing. Yeah, she's wiry. 

No, that's not a good No. 

I think you probably have made Bethany upset enough. She promote, would spear you so hard into the ground.

She'd spin up around 

and I would be like Spider Monkey Bethany's the winner. So Bethany wins. So 

can't salvage this. 

Yeah, 

I'm trying 

people Yeah, we're, yeah. Cody's trying, but like. I mean, you're doing great. Taking these size differential between my spouse and I are away. I mean, it would be, it would be fun to have that 

decision.

You can't, that's the whole point of it. You can't take that away. 

Yeah. 

You can't just say, Hey, if we were the same size, you're the same way. This would be, no, that's the her a whole 

point. I give her a head start. 

There is no. 

Yeah, 

I can't, 

it's 

nope. I can't believe that I'm the voice of reason on this right now.

Yeah, me too. It's a shocking, yeah. Change of role reversal. 

I mean, obviously we're kidding. 

Let's talk about rules of US. First rule is there should be no physical fighting in your marriage. How about that? That's a great rule to have. 

That's a good rule. 

It's a good rule. Let's just start there so we can reset from whatever it was.

Run 

Nation Club is not physical fighting. It's decision making, 

keeping an eye for a relationship. Nation club. 

Coming out soon to do something really dumb. 

Relationship Nation Club. I so like it. We're gonna do an event. We may not do that as the event, but we, we have to come up with something. 

Wouldn't that be awesome though?

I mean, if it's like time puzzles. Whoever gets the puzzle done first wins the argument. I don't think this podcast is going to, to 

it 

gonna 

pass lives. I think people 

are gonna be 

sitting there like, this is good idea. I think that this podcast is gonna pass the podcast. Here's, here's how I know this. I just, 

honestly, 

no, here's, I think Patty's gonna listen to this and go, Patty will think this is genius.

Don't think that we can show this. She can like this. You guys should have 

talked for 20 minutes before 

you started replying. This is why she'll think it's good 

because we make decisions based on rock, 

paper, scissors. 

And we have for 

25 years. Rock paper Scissors is nothing like Run Nation. There is no, there's not a, you guys see Cyle and Penny lining up on other opposite comparison sides 

of the church or the gym.

You know 

why? Hey, check Instagram. It's coming. 

You could play, you could play rock, paper, scissors with actual paper, rock and scissors and physically fight, and it still wouldn't be close to the Run Nation comparison. Okay? Like there's not even a close. You can't even compare the two. 

I've got ideas we, I'll talk to Patty about 

that.

I'm concerned 

that you, but we do like, like we have always decided like things, if we're in like disagreement about like what movie to watch or what to do, where to go for dinner, well just like rock paper, scissors. You take one, I take one and we don't usually care. You take one, I'll take one. Whatever, whatever.

Whoever wins, that's what we're doing. I always lose, it seems so she usually gets her way. I don't know if she figures out how. She wins all the time, but she does. But it's a great rock paper, sci cheap. It's great. 'cause there's no pressure. Like, all right, I lost. So let's do that. So, I mean, it's simple. Yeah.

The Holocaust does not, uh, condone or endorse abuse or physical violence in, in any way in marriages or relationships. And that disclaimer is being said now. Where did he go to law school? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

I just, I, I, I don't know, but I feel like this is 

an 

official disclaimer from Heart of Lakes Church. 

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, I mean, so you could try different decision making strategies. We, we do. So it's fun and, um, never this points. 

So where this is bringing us, and I think this is important, is conflict resolution. Let's talk about conflict resolution. Woo. Within relationships. So when you guys are at an impasse, when you have a disagreement, you go to rock, paper, scissors, right?

No. When you're deciding, like when you. Okay.

When we're having conflict, my name is Matt Plot. Yeah. When we're having conflict, we don't decide with rock, paper, scissors when we're, that's not conflict. We use proper healthy communication tools and techniques when we're, when we're at an impasse of just what to do, the not a non important decision, we use rock paper.

Alright, that's good clarification. 

Thank you. You, there 

you go. 

And what we're gonna start doing in March is. Relationship Nation club, so it's gonna be great. So we'll see. Catch more. But how do you decide, how do you decide with your wife? 

We land up 15 yards apart and run into 

Chevy. Oh, knew it Homo drill.

I knew. It 

just act like, 

oh goodness. 

Just wait. I got a video coming. You know you're 

gonna topple over lead. 

I have a video coming. Just, just watch the video's coming. You're gonna love it. I've, I've got this. Oh my gosh. Genius idea for it. It's gonna be great. 

Patty's gonna be into it. I mean, ultimately, ultimately, if we, we have trusted people, like if we have a serious decision that like we can't come to an agreement on, we always have people that we help weigh.

And you and Patty are some of those trusted people. Mm-hmm. You know, when it comes to that, we also phone 

call a few times also, 

we, yeah. Yeah. And like, I mean, I think every couple should have that, especially if you, if you can't figure out a way. If one of, if one of the people in your marriage is more passive and is gonna get rolled over and like that happens on a regular basis, there need to be some safe people that are able to step in Right.

And help out and, and like, 'cause we talk about like, you know, like, I know it's a joke and like we're laughing, but like emotionally, I think a lot of times. Run the, you know, run Nation is what happens. I think you come at, you we're against each other. Right? And we, we just want, we're coming full force with our ideas and our, our, our temperaments.

And like, we have all these things. We have all of our hopes, dreams and desires are completely reasonable to us, but to our spouses. Or our significant others, they feel like expectations. And when we don't fully communicate those expectations or what those expectations actually bring, or the unintended consequences of those expectations, that can feel really aggressive to our spouse.

And so what they're doing is they're bringing all their hopes, dreams, desires, expectations, and they're putting it in the in the middle. And we're trying to sort through it. And so. When we're, we're having, when we're at a place where like we're trying to make a decision and we're at an impasse, one of our first things is we, we, we walk away from the conversation and pray about it, and, and then we come back.

We revisit the conversation. If we're still at an impasse after we've both prayed about it and separately walk through things, then what that means is it's too deeply held for us to, to be able to referee ourselves and we need somebody else in that. Because one of the, one of the things I use in premarital all the time is that when we.

Spouses. When we come to a conversation, we a lot of times treat it like a dealt like, like a, like a singles match of tennis where we're the problem is the ball and we're volleying it back and forth. And then what happens is we're in opposition to one another. And the problem is, and the solution is that marriage is not like a single match.

It's a doubles match and you're both playing against the problem. And so you're both working together to try and solve it and, and I think all too often we don't see it that way because when we get feedback, I mean there's all sorts of things that we have that are hangups or. Things that our spouses say that trigger things in us that may be unresolved or we haven't worked through.

But it is our job and responsibility to understand that they love us and that they're, they're just trying to come at, at a different place. And so we have to figure out the compromise, like where do we meet in the middle in such a way that we can both walk away and go, you know, we love each other and we, we solve the problem.

Right. 

Yeah, I, I, yeah, you gotta meet in the middle. Yeah. Just like run nation club. Um, so I think that's good advice. I think it really is. And, um, where's the part where, 'cause I, you know, I think the problem is we give advice and people are like, you guys are geniuses. And like I had someone walk outta church, uh, last Sunday and say, it must be awesome to be at your house because like.

Just the way you guys handle things and I'm like, oh no. I mean, I pretty much said I get this wrong. This is, I learned too. Yeah. And so we gotta be careful that people don't think so you and Bethany, you say you go away and pray for it. Where's the part that you're yelling at each other, you're being mean to each other.

You're saying things that are frustrating for each other. Where's the part in that before the prayer? Because like, we're not perfect. We, we 

No, of 

course not. We don't want people to think, Hey, we we're just so perfect mean, you guys are so flawed. Like, I think it we're just as flawed often in trying to deal with these things.

So yeah. How do you reset? 'cause like, honestly Yeah. That's, that's not your normal go do is pray first. It's, 

yeah. I think I to 

get there right, 

to answer that. I, I mean I'd say there it depends on what topic it is. Who's most passionate? That's good about that. Right? Like, so for us, like if there's something that I don't really care about and Bethany's super like, we're gonna do this.

We're like, I don't, I'm not gonna, right? What happens though is when we find situations where we're both very passionate about the outcome, or we're both very passionate about the. The process or the system. That's really where the biggest grind comes, right? It's not when one thing really matters to the other person and one thing doesn't.

That's pretty much like, I don't care. Yeah, I'm good with that. I'll support you with whatever. It's where it comes to, like the bigger stuff. Okay. So like the hot button issues like for, for most couples are finances, right? Child rearing, sex, you know, sex and intimacy really. 'cause those are, those are. Two things that are hand in hand, right?

And then, you know, really just conduct and time management. And so when it comes down to it, those are the ones that we find. I mean, I would think you would agree with this, as in premarital. Those are the ones that we find are the biggest hot button issues when it comes to those things. If we are talking, if we are talking about things that are those hot button issues, sometimes I think anybody who's been married or in a long-term relationship, or any amount of time longer than like a year.

Sometimes those conversations happen organically, and when they do, that's normally when the fighting happens, right? Like when it comes up because something else was addressed, and it's like, oh, well that wasn't even, that didn't even have to do with what we were talking about because then whoever brought up the thing, or whoever it, whoever unleashed it, right?

That person, that person obviously has unresolved frustration, right? And they're, they're trying to shoehorn that into a conversation. So that, to answer your question. Normally that's when the fighting or the escalation happens. Now, what for Bethany and I are are like, we have non-negotiables, right? Like non-negotiables that we never cross in our marriage.

One, you never say the D word, which is divorce. Like we never communicate in that way. We never say things that would lead the other person to think that we're somehow backing out of the marriage or backing out of the relationship or doing anything that is not committed to that other person. Because I think what happens is you go from.

We're fighting an issue to now we're insecure about the ground that we both stand on. And I think the problem is what happens too often in, in marriages is that people threaten leaving to manipulate or to, to coerce the, their spouse into giving up the argument when the reality is that's a dirty move.

Right. So like when we talk about, like, when does it get to that point? Well, when, honestly, when, when the gloves come off and people start fighting dirty. Our spouses know the weakest points to attack. Right? For, you know, for some people it might be, you know, relationships with their family. For some people it might be relationships with their coworkers.

It might be relationships with their kids. Like if somebody says, oh yeah, 'cause you're really, you spinning habits, you're really intimacy, you know, nameless, yeah, you're a real great dad. Right? Like in a passive aggressive, like somebody might. One spouse might hate passive aggressiveness. One spouse might communicate in passive aggressiveness.

Like, so the, the reality is like those things arise often because we're taken off, we're taken off guard by a conversation that we felt like we weren't prepared for. And so like one of the things that. Bethany I have been committing to over the last two years is trying to be proactive about having the tough conversations where we're not on the same page.

So like when we're on a drive, we've committed that. When we're on a drive, that's tough conversation time because one, you can't escape that. Like you can't walk away from it. You can't go pout. Like there's only so much you can do to, to try and quiet the other person before you realize like, we're stuck here.

You know what I call that? What the The Mark Mellinger rule. 

The 

Mark 

Mellinger rule? Mm, 

yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Trademarked. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Mark the car he's 

selling, he's selling that as his own mark. 

But I know that shirt. 

Yeah. Yeah. Are you driving or just sitting in your driveway? 

I mean, it depends. It depends. I mean, it depends if the kids are, if we're going somewhere and the kids are there, like we, we try to make sure that we're not, we're not fighting like we shouldn't.

We try to make sure that like if we do, one rule that we have is like if we do fight in front of the kids, we also resolve it in front of the kids. I think that's a problem that a lot of people have. Like if you fight in front of the kids, you have to resolve it in front of the kids. 'cause what happens to a lot of kids and, and this happened for me too, like my mom and dad are awesome, but like they would fight.

And then they would go resolve it behind closed doors, or they'd go talk through it, and then they would come out and it would be totally fine. And the problem is then your kids don't have the tools to know how to resolve. Oh, that's good. Their issues. Right. And so what they're seeing is mom and dad are fighting.

But they don't ever see how mom and dad say sorry, how they resolve it, how they love each other, and how they walk through it. And so giving them those tools is really helpful. 

Would it make sense to like resolve it on your own and then go back and revisit it with the, with your kid? Yeah. Absolute. Be like, Hey, I know you saw that.

And 

understand, I mean, they need to see the process of you resolving it. They don't necessarily need to know, yeah, you can be resolved and you can go back 

and 

kind 

of, Hey, mommy, daddy, or replay that, you know, we're sorry like we, we fought in front of you, but like we love each other. We forgive each other and we're, we're moving on.

We're good. Like, and so like, you know, for our kids, they're young, but they're young kids are the most impressionable, right? Like, so they're, they're the most impressionable that you have. And so like, they're absorbing everything whether we like it or not. So 

true. 

You know, that's another rule. And I, I think the other thing is, you know, you should never.

You know, if you ever are at a place where you disrespect your spouse in front of your kids, you should be the one to go and apologize to your kids and let them know that it was unacceptable. It doesn't matter what started the disrespect. It doesn't matter what caused it. Like one thing, like I dis I, you know, a couple weeks ago I disrespected Bethany in front of the kids and like.

It didn't matter what we were talking about. It was wrong and I needed to go make it right in front of my kids. 

Yeah. The problem is, mm-hmm. We often, and this is a thing I deal with a lot in counseling. People will come in and they're all mad that the other person was wrong. Mm-hmm. But by the time they got in with me, they've done a bunch of wrong things on their side because the way they handle it.

Yeah. Like mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, and everybody might be in a situation, your spouse was wrong, but then you responded so awful. You were now wrong. 'cause you, you send against it by the behavior. Mm-hmm. So now everybody's wrong. And I think that's what people don't realize. You know, two, two wrongs don't make a right and it doesn't give you the, the, the moral authority over the person.

So it. That's, that's where I think it comes, always comes by the time you're sitting down, I'm sitting down with a couple, they're both wrong. Like it's always the case, like mm-hmm. And you might come in, like you say, just fictitious example, Ryan comes in, he's like, ah, T and all this stuff. But usually by the time you're in here talking to me, you've already done five or 10 things you should, you should regret that you've done.

And it doesn't matter who started the argument. Now, now everybody's wrong. So, and that's why, what, what I do, counseling is so easy. 'cause you did a bunch of wrong, you did a bunch of wrong, let's resolve it. So 

yeah, 

we like to say, we like to say right position, wrong retaliation. Like you were in the right position.

You, you were correct, but how you responded. Made you a culpable, a culpable party you might like because you might have been right in what you were saying, but how you responded crushed your spouse. And so like you could have res like that's why the whole restore gently is so important. Yeah. 'cause restoration happens when we know we're right and we take the time to process and gently bring them around to the same conclusion.

You might not have started the fire, but if you had a gasoline, you're definitely not helping. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You're possibly making it worse. Yeah, 

exactly. 

Definitely making it worse. 

Yeah. 

So. 

That's good. Uh, I think it's important to have a third party, so, yeah. Uh, I have a rule. If I'm the third party, I don't mind being anybody's third party.

If you, if you need to, uh, adjudicator because you are at an impasse. You can call me, but my rules for calling me is then you listen to me. So, or don't call me. Mm-hmm. Like, don't bother me with your thing if you're not willing to listen to what I, if you're asking me to step in. 

So at what point do you think that it's appropriate?

I mean, we've already talked, we have the rules, but like at what point, like for the listeners, do you think it's appropriate for somebody to involve a third party? 

I think the moment you, you can't resolve it, instead of escalating it, just say, Hey. So and so in our life, we've given the authority to be a third party where when we're in an impasse, we're going to seek that person's counsel.

Mm-hmm. And then you call that person together, put 'em on speaker and say. Here's where we're at. What I like to do is say one of you, I want one of you talk, then I'll listen to that person. Mm-hmm. Then I'll ask the other person talk, and then I'll kind of make my ruling. I mean, it's an adjudicator, right?

Yeah. And it's like it doesn't matter who's right. And normally I can figure out who, who was originally, right? Mm-hmm. But then I also can see how it went wrong for the other person so badly that we're at the point we're at. And so I can call out both sides and say, yep, sounds like you were right, but then your response was awful.

So you're both wrong. Can, can we just agree to move forward this way? And it doesn't really matter At that point, you just need a, A direction forward. Yeah. And then you need to respect that person enough to say, oh yeah, let's just, we love each other. Let's just forgive each other. Move on in this direction.

That is so much easier than just fighting and growing bitterness. And so you might need somebody that you've can find in, in the church and you're, you can't, you shouldn't be a family. It shouldn't be. Mm-hmm. Shouldn't be family or close friend. Never. It should be somebody 

should never, ever be a family member 

that you both look up to.

Yep. And their wisdom. It could be a couple, you say, Hey, let's call this couple, put 'em on speaker phone. Just, you know, take five minutes or time. 

It should be. It's 

so much better. 

It should be a co it should be a godly couple. Yeah. Who has more years of experience in marriage than you do. 

Yes. 

And who has, is has a good marriage.

Yeah. Like it shouldn't just be, have a clear couple and a relationship with her if a couple, you know, is about to get divorced and you go to them to, for, for marriage advice. No, it's not good. That's just a bad choice, right? Like you need to go to a, you need, there's like, there's rules. You have to go to a healthy couple.

They should. Always be married longer than you, like. It should never be going to a couple for marriage advice, who's not been married, who's been married less time or the same time as you, because they're going to have likely been already through some of the things and hurdles that you're having. Right?

And the other side of that is that perspective is going. They're going to have wisdom to share that is outside of your experience, and that's gonna give you better advice, right? Here's the other thing. When you have a mediator. What's really important is that if somebody calls for a mediator, one, it should be respected by the other person.

Right. That person should respect that you're asking for a mediator and that they feel they can't resolve this. 

It should be a safe thing. It shouldn't be a bad 

thing. Exactly. But two, 

have you always seen it as a safe thing or have you've seen it as a 

thing? No, and I would say that there's been times where it's been like, okay, yeah, we need a mediator here.

And then for on both sides, there's been times where we've used it as a manipulation to try and get what we want. 

Yeah. 

A mediator is not to be used for manipulation. Like it's not appropriate for me to go to Bethany and go, well, I'm gonna call Cyle like, and be, try to get forced my will because one, that is an, that's an aggressive attack against your spouse to try and.

Get your own way. Yeah. Because you're going, well fine, I'll just involve somebody else and they'll agree with me. Because regardless of whether that's true or not, in that moment you feel scared, you feel isolated and you feel like your teammate who's supposed to be on your team is against you and bringing somebody else, that's 

always a funny thing.

'cause the a true person who's going be your arbitrator. 

Mm-hmm. 

Is not gonna side with somebody just because they don't wanna initiate 

the phone call. No, but, but in that moment it doesn't matter because when you're at odds it doesn't feel like that's help. It feels like that's hurt. Right. Like you're using that person in that way.

Mm-hmm. And that's why it's really careful. So a mediator is also something somebody you've both agreed to. Mm-hmm. It's not somebody who you say, I want this person to be our mediator. And the other person's like, I don't feel comfortable with that. Like, you have to both agree. Somebody that wants the best for your relationship.

That's exactly. That, you know, is always gonna shoot straight. Cyle is our trusted. Cyle and Patty are our trusted mediators because we know that Cyle Petty love us and that no matter who's on the right or wrong side, they're gonna call it out for what it is. Yeah. And that they're gonna help us resolve it because their heart is not to team up on one side or the other.

It's for the health of the marriage and like that's why it's important that you both agree sometimes what couples do well, one person will feel strongly and go, I want this person to be the mediator. Well then the problem is the other, the spouse is not in agreement. And so then the spouse is like, well, I didn't agree to this and I don't trust this person that has our best interest.

Yeah. So it's shot from the get go. And so I'm, I feel like it's like, it's why a lot of times, like a lot of, there, there's some good stats out there on, on marital counseling and that normally the person who initiates the counseling, um. Normally the person initiates the counseling and the person who is brought to counseling, uh, don't find resolution because if it's not something that's mutually agreed upon and mutually decided 

Yeah, 

people, one person feels, 

you call my spouse and meet with them.

No. 

No, 

because if they don't wanna meet with me on their own, they're not gonna listen to me and it's not gonna go anywhere. They 

have Well, I've done that. They have 

to initiate. 

Yeah, I've done that and, and unfortunately. The majority of the times that somebody is brought into like an intervention. 

Yeah.

It doesn't 

go 

well. It does not go well. And, and there's been one or two cases where it's actually worked, but it, it didn't work for a long time. Intervention usually 

is where we're gonna lose 

the 

relationship with the person. They may end up working out for the person. 

Yeah. 

But we're gonna lose the relationship.

There's too much, you have to, you have to remove too many gold relational nuggets from that person's coin purse. To the point where you're gonna bankrupt the relationship, right? Like every relationship, like I, you might not know this, but this is a real, this is actually a really good analogy to use for this in a relationship, like everybody has what we would call a coin purse, right?

Where as you grow in relationship, you're depositing gold points. Relational 

change 

is the relational change, right? Like, and you're depositing your relational change in there. And as you grow, the coin purse gets deeper and deeper and deeper, right? But what happens is every time that you do something that.

It challenges the relationship that. Brings truth into it in a way that is hard to hear. You're taking from that coin purse. And so what happens is a lot of times when you have intervention or you're meeting one-to-one, you're, you're depleting that coin purse. And so now you're relationally bankrupt in that with that person because you've done something that's broken their trust because they trusted you as a source of.

Truth and confidence, now you're coming to them on behalf of someone else instead of that person coming and then bringing them onto the fold. So like that's, that's the reason that, that, that functions that way. So like when you talk about in marriage and like resolution, conflict resolution, you, your spouse and you have coin purses, relational change that you exchange back and forth and.

What happens the most, and I think you would agree with this, I think you would agree with this, and Mark will start to agree with this. I'm learning as a young guy, right? He's just married, but like with your spouse, you can get to a place where you've depleted them. Right. And, and you're, you're running low.

And so what we say is like, one, one thing that Cyle gave us advice on is every time you, after you have a fight, you need to do something relationally grounding to bring you back in. Right. And, and I'll, I'll just say this, like, I'll, I'll say this just for the, the people who are married and hearing this like that doesn't necessarily mean intimacy.

Like a lot of people use that. And abuse that, that means something that actually produces relational cred. Now in marriage and the health of marriage, sex can be a really great thing for bringing people together, but it also can be an excuse to not actually work on the problems that are existing there.

And so like, I would suggest that, hey, like let's go do a coffee date. Let's go, let's go out and get dinner. Like, like let's get the, drop the kids off and have a time where it's just us and we're not. Focusing on this problem, we're just focusing on us because I think that's much more profitable. 'cause what can happen is like you can end up making intimacy a place marker for a, a, a replacement or a crutch instead of dealing with the issues that are at hand.

And in so doing. That bankrupts, that portion. Right. And so you're basically the, the phrase robbing Peter just to pay Paul. It's like you're, you're taking from one thing that's very sacred and important and you're using it to try and justify instead of actually working through the problems. Does it make sense?

Yeah. And I think that's what happens a lot for a lot of young couples and a lot of newlyweds like intimacy and physical relation relations, right? Take the place of actual character development and growth and it's just like, we'll, we'll just throw this, you know, we're just gonna throw this in there.

'cause. We're, we're mad and like, this will make us not mad or like, it, 

it's easier than actually having relationships Exactly. Skills and, and actually mm-hmm. Having language. Right. Exactly. Like learn, learning, relationship language and, and being able to communicate things from a mm-hmm. How, how we, how me and Tara discuss it is like from a What's happened standpoint.

Yeah. Opposed to like the story we are making up about what's happened. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. 99% of our things that we would disagree on are going to be something that I didn't really do and she didn't do. It's just something that happened, and both of us have a different way of going at it. Yeah. And instead of going, wow, this is a really hard problem and this is hard for us to solve, we can look at each other and go.

I don't like the way you're doing that. Mm-hmm. And I don't like the way, well, what do you mean I don't like the way you're doing? And, and then it, then it, it's that, that side quest that becomes 

Yeah. 

A, a something. And it's like, what are we doing here? So, 

yeah. 

It's interesting to say that like, one of the, that's like our rule.

One of the rules that we have for us is that we talk about the problem. Um, not about the person. 

Yeah. Right, right. 

Yeah. And so, 'cause as soon as we start saying, well, you are this. Mm-hmm. Um, and you are that, and it's like, whoa, whoa. Hey, come on now. They ain't gotta be like that. Yeah. You know, let's, let's just figure out what's going on here.

Yeah. And, and, and in the moment that we can't and we're like, oh, I can't, I can't be with this like. That's when we have to bring somebody else in the mix. Yeah, exactly. What's what's interesting for us is we generally have like our, our safe people in our life. Mm-hmm. Like, I got you dudes. I got a, I got a handful of say warrior people.

Tara has a lot of her, her women that are safe in her life. And, and we kinda get it, like if I'm, if I'm upset, I get that it's not about her, it's not about anything she said. Right. It it, it's about me. And, and because I've had an expectation in which mm-hmm. I realized that. You know, on some level I thought I was God, and I thought I could just wave my magic wand and make things be how I wanted to be.

Yeah. And what do you know? I'm not, yeah. And in my opinion, almost everybody that I counsel with their relationships, their biggest problem is they are really upset that they're not God. Right? Yeah. And, and, and they, and they're throwing a fit, like a, like a 3-year-old who wants a Snicker bar and a Meyer checkout.

Yep. And, and, and then their partner is looking at them and they're. Laying on the ground right next to 'em, kicking and screaming. But they're just upset because the other person, um, didn't get a Snickers bar. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's, and me too in life, right? Like I'm preaching to the choir. Like I, I only reason I know this is 'cause I've tripped on that long, more times than I can count.

Yeah. I can just stand up and go, Hey, hey. I tripped on that before. Look, step over that. And this is how, you know, 

I know. I personally feel like I see how the wisdom that was given to me helped protect me from some of that. Like the one I've been using a lot is, we've been using a lot. Is this is what I heard.

What did you mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because there has, there have been plenty of moments where it's like, uh. What are you talking about? Because there was a moment where I felt frustrated 'cause I misunderstood her and I was like livid. I was like, I need to breathe. I'm gonna go take time. Make sure my heart's in the right place, right?

Because before I do anything, I don't feel like if my heart's focused on me, focused on being frustrated, I can be doing the right thing. So that led to me trying to do project and walking out to the car with my car keys and her thinking I was leaving the house and I had to walk that back. Yeah. But we eventually cooled off and I was like.

I heard this when you said this, and she's like, oh, no, no, no. This is what I meant when I said. 

Right. 

That makes a lot of sense now. And you weren't trying to hurt me. You just, you were trying to be lighthearted about something and I didn't receive it the way you were intending. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Well, like that one's been so helpful recently for us, like using that role.

Yeah. Well they, they, it's like you said, they know our soft points and, and when we are in that story type mode mm-hmm. Where maybe we're not in that great of space, we will take what they say. We as in all people will take what somebody says. Mm-hmm. And we will make it mean terrible things. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's hardly ever that, 

you know, you 

call '

em, they're like, nah, I just was checking on how you were doing.

Yeah. Like, 

oh, oh, okay. Yeah, 

yeah. I, I just wanted to say hello. I missed you. Oh yeah. I thought you were calling to tell me terrible things. I. I just love you. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to tell you. Yeah. I think 

our mind goes to the worst place. 

Yeah. 

That's the problem with being broken and flawed humans. So, 

well, and I, and I think with our relationships, our, our partners have the receipts, right.

They know our soft points, so. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, I know with me and Tara, we make a point to, to just like, like what Mark said, like, Hey, when you said this, it made me feel like you were saying I'm a bad father. Is that what you were getting at? Yeah. Yeah. And, and she will be like, no, no. And then she will spend five minutes telling me how cool I am.

Yeah. You know? 

Yeah, 

exactly. True. And it, and it needs to happen right. On some level. Right. 

And I mean, that's the, that's the, I mean, most, there's not a lot of couples. The, the majority of couples, because of the way that God has designed us, and the reason that they're attracted to one another is normally because they do have differences.

Right. A lot of the people who are the same don't end up having very, like, they're not very cohesive and it just ends up in burnout. Right. So who we end up with, like who becomes our person, is normally somebody who's very different than us. Mm-hmm. But that means that conflict resolution is very different as well.

Yeah. Like one, one person might be a processor. And one person might be a resolver, like one person might be like, I have to, that just described 

us to 

a team. Yeah, right. Like, like, but that, that's normally what happens, right? Like one of the people in the relationship is like, I'm not leaving this room until this is resolved.

That's me. 

And the other person feels like a corner dog. That's right. Because they're like, I just want to go and figure out how I feel about this, and then come back and discuss it. Mm-hmm. And so the problem is that puts you at a complete impasse, right? 

Yeah. I wanna go back to earlier, that's the genius of Run Nation club.

Goodness, 

great wife. If you're listening to this, you mean 

relationship 

nation? 

Relationship nation 

away from it. And 

then it just, we found a way for your processing to combine. 30 minutes 

later we're back at it. 

But yeah, truthfully, 

it is true though. Like, and so like, I mean, I think it's good to know, I think.

A healthy amount of self-awareness is helpful. Yeah, like, like if you're not aware of how you resolve fights, then when it comes to fights you might, you might be like, I wanna resolve this with you. You might just need time to go and process it. I think we, the problem 

with the fight is everybody thinks they're right.

That's why you're fighting. 'cause both people think they're right. One of you is definitely wrong, or both of you are partially wrong. Yeah. But it's not normally that both of you are wholly right? 

Yeah. 

So at some point you have to recognize there is, there is a resolution that needs to come from this.

This is not the way. If we're fighting, we need to find a different resolution and you can still resolve things and move forward. Be happy. The problem is we just default too, name calling, being mean, being angry, being frustrated, whatever it may be. And there is a better way and you can get there. You just have to put the time and energy into to getting there and learning the techniques and skills to do that.

And that's kinda what we're talking about. That's what this whole series is about. Rules of us creating better rules, navigate your relationship so you have the tools necessarily when those time comes. I mean, I, I would love to say that Patty and I are perfect at, we're not, we're we're better, way better than we used to be.

You're always getting better and better, and ultimately. You can too. But it takes one step at a time. And that's why we're doing a series about this. I had somebody texted me last night and said, if I wish, I wish you had preached a series 50 years ago, it would've helped me be, maybe not have a better marriage, but definitely be a better person 

mm-hmm.

For my marriage and I, that would've been better for me. Mm-hmm. And so that was really nice to hear. And um, they're thankful for the message series and so I think that's why we're doing this is to hopefully just get people thinking. You can do better. It's, it is attainable. 

Yeah. 

But you need to have different strategies and, um, we, we, we, we joke and we chi it about the Run Nation Club, but like, the reality is you need to do better in your relationship and find a better way mm-hmm.

To, to navigate it, not necessarily with a rugby ball and rolling out the turf. Although you, you can do that. I'll bring it over to your house for 3 9, 9, um, yeah. 

Not in the trailer. Well, Bethany is eight and a half months pregnant and I am. Still not recovered from a surgery. I think that's gonna be the injury bowl.

Yeah. 

And I think the important thing is you don't lower the rules over. Like the rules of us aren't to lower over the other person. It's to kind of hold yourself accountable too. Like that's the way I try to think about it. Like Bri and I have done it and actually we're talking about revisiting again, where we go through it and we allow each other to self address or address the other person about like, how did we do on this?

Is this one we struggled with? Is this one that's applicable? Have we done really well with this role? Like Right, because I know we're trying to get it out so we can give it to everybody and like clean up some of it. 'cause it's a little cl like clunky at the moment. Um, but like for us, like when we were dating, we had a few different times where we revisited it and we're like, I was like, yeah, I, I didn't do that, that well.

I'm sorry. I need to work on that. 

Right. 

And I gave her the space to also be willing to lovingly, graciously. Call me out too. 

Right. 

So vice versa. 

Yeah, no, I think, uh, I think we can all do better. 

Yeah, 

we can all do better. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you on the next episode of the HOTL Cast peace.

Bye.