The Church Traps That Keep You From Christ

In this episode of the HOTLCast, Cyle, Matt, Mark, and Ryan dive deep into a series on modern-day idols — but with a twist: the focus is on the spiritual traps that trip up even the most devoted believers. From the "Corinth Trap" of knowledge without love, to the danger of church-hopping and spiritual superiority, the crew gets real about the idols hiding in plain sight inside the church. It's honest, funny, and exactly the kind of conversation your small group should be having.

Transcript

 Hello and welcome to the Double handlebars episode of, uh, the HOTLCast. I'm holding my mic 'cause uh, somebody knocked to me named Mark broke it. I, 

yeah. 

So now I'm holding it. 

We just can't have nice things. 

No. Yeah. 

Mark, you were gone last week. You know what we had last week. 

What? 

Working microphone space.

You're back broken. 

I'm sorry. Those were collapsed when I came in and I was trying to fix 'em. 

Yeah, yeah. You fixed it. 

Apparently Ryan's had the same issue and I'm really happy his has not fallen too. Yeah. 

Thank 

you so much for 

facing 

my mic. We definitely need to a great job more situation here with, there's still time, so, but like, I feel like I'm riding the rollercoaster at, at Cedar Point.

Yeah. Getting ready to go, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click up the hill. So you, if you're not watching the videos of this, you're missing out that click, click, click, click, click, and then I got the handle. If I really wanna lock in. Let's go guys. It's time. Yeah, but it's cool. Um, so Mark, you're back.

I 

am Are you feeling better? 

I'm feeling much better. 

Yeah, we were, we were, I 

was not. Okay. Last week 

you were kind of laughing last week 'cause you in the podcast 'cause you fell asleep during staff meeting. So 

Yeah, we sent, yeah, I would listen through it 'cause I had to upload it the next day. 

He's like, I hate 

we mentioned that publicly.

Thought it was valuable. I fully expected that. 

How many times a week did you fall asleep at awkward situations last week? 

And last thing. 

Yeah. Mark, how many, how many were 

there? 

How many 

I don't. 

Confession time. 

I don't, I don't 

remember up step up to the microphone. 

I don't remember. 

I do not recall. Is there any, any other 

terms?

My lawyers told me not to respond to this question. 

N nothing happened on Sunday, 

March last was 

Quentin. Nothing happened on 

Sunday. I don't, I don't know what happened. I, I, I'm so, I feel so bad. I'm Where were 

you in your dream? 

I was not, I was not. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what's happening. 

Yeah. If you don't know, mark fell asleep during, in first service of Jackson.

I did. I felt so bad. I felt like a jerk, and I, I feel so bad. 

That's a small service that like if you're gonna fall asleep, at least fall asleep in a big service where you could hide. 

Sorry. I didn't plan out when I was like, sorry. I should have planned that out better. 

Yeah. 

Which 

is funny because Cyle was mentioning at Brooklyn around the same time, Hey, Matt's got this sultry deep voice that you can just listen to Mark's like to sleep.

He does. He just drifts you right 

away in the one service. I said like, it laws you to sleep, because I don't know if that was on the, the video you saw. But, uh, because Kerik was sleeping in the back doing lights, my son, and so they had sent me a picture right before I walked up to talk about, um, three 30 and the carrick's just like, yeah, he's out.

And so then I said, yeah, what Matt's voice will log. 'cause it was during your video 

Yeah. 

Is when he fell asleep. I mean, it's a long 

video, but it's not that long. 

No. Yeah, so it was funny, but like, and then it's funny, you, you, your voice put mark to sleep. So literally, I, I was speaking truth. That's true.

Speaking truth. 

That's right. 

Matt, if you, if you have trouble sleeping, listen to the podcast and just put Matt's Matt on. That's 

right. 

We'll just have, we'll just have. We used to do nighttime devotions with Matt. We just talk and then people will just listen to it at bedtime and they'll go to sleep. 

Not to be confused with like hot after dark.

It's actually not a bad idea. Struggle with insomnia. Listen to Pastor Matt read the Bible. We should do. Pastor Matt reads the Bible. 

We could charge for that too. That'd be great. 

If we need an episode of Pastor Matt reads the Bible. 

I have no problem with 

that because everybody always tells me Matt's got such a great voice.

Check out our Patreon. I hear 

that a lot for our 

Pat Patreon. Yes. How Paton account for $1 a month. You can hear Matt read the Bible for $2 a month. He can read the Old Testament. 

Seriously though. I think that's a good idea, man. It's not a bad idea. Like audio books or something. Like if you get a handle on that side gig.

Yeah. 

Can I use Cyle's magic microphone that's got the extra handle on it? Yeah. 

I think that's what's gonna holding you back. You got, listen, you can just change the, change the volume just by like having the extra That's true. Special mic. So 

you're correct. 

Yeah. That's cool. So. I think you should do this.

Let us know if you hear this podcast and you think Matt should read the Bible, we could do episodes on the podcast where you read the Bible. 

That's true. 

Like in between like just like maybe just read like a chapter of the Bible, like in the beginning. 

Very 

dramatically. Heavens and the earth. 

Yeah. You have use different voices too.

This is CNN. 

I would listen to it. 

I love it. Me totally. If you could do That's worth a dollar to me, like cafes, I'd be so happy. Yeah, that would be, I think so. Um, yeah. No, but that's, that's good. We, we did talk about our three 30 update. That's when you were doing the video for how to give, if you want to give, and you know, you know, if you're not part of our church, you're just listening.

You don't have to give to it. But like we do have people call this church home and wanna give and support our campaign and that's really about how we facilitate navigating our, what feels like a shrinking building as our congregation continues to grow. So we're just trying to figure out how do we find.

And create space and, um, without building a whole new complex. 'cause we, we don't, we don't wanna do that, um, because that's expensive. So we're trying to figure things out. But thank you for making that video as the pied piper of giving with your, your voice. But, um, yeah, we're, we're just excited about what God's doing.

We got a big surprise coming in a couple weeks for people. So, uh, we won't talk about it until they see it on, on the Luau Sunday. So make sure you come to the luau. And we've been kind of 

first or third service. 

Yes. Yeah, that's right. We're only gonna feed you then. Um, but no, it is been, we had, we had a lot of people Sunday.

It was awesome. We had like 500 people in Brooklyn. You guys had a good, good crowd on, on in Jackson, so it's, yeah, we had 

48, 

something like that. I think God is moving and we're just trying to figure out what we're doing with all that. So, and um, you know, for the six or 700 people that call church home here, um, that regularly, we come in a couple week period, we've gotta figure out.

How are we gonna handle the future and how are we gonna handle the building and how are we gonna handle our spaces and in a way that allows us to continue to meet together because we, we do three services. I, I don't mind, the people keep asking me if we do the three services, we hate it. And I, I actually like it, so it doesn't cause a problem for me.

The worst team's not complaining like. I think we've had to tighten up some things so we're not here that much longer than we were, but, uh, it, it's an enjoyable morning and our services have definitely have different vibes. Uh, so I dunno if you guys noticed this on, on Sunday. Um, the vibe change from service to service.

Well, I preached there on February 22nd. It was my first time doing the three services and preaching it at that campus. And it, it's one of those things where you do feel like the, the energy from the crowd and the energy during worship, it does shift. And it does change because each person's bringing kind of their own personality into it.

Whenever you're coming into the building, you know, we are, you know, one church, two locations, but now across five services. So you look at that and each time someone's coming in, they're bringing whatever. Energy they're walking into the room with, that's a part of what is part of that service that day.

And you do feel that, and you do recognize that. And not in a negative way, right? Not like, uh, you know, there's a grumpy person sitting in the third row. We gotta really watch them. But definitely in the, the energy and the passion and the excitement that people are bringing into the church, you feel that as you're the, the worship team or you're the pastor preaching, you know, it's definitely, it's tangible.

Yeah. I would say first service is more, um, participatory when I ask questions. 

Yeah. 

Second service is more responsive. Demonstrative, maybe would be a good way to say it. They participate but in a responsive way. Uh, laughing and. Um, participating and then third service. And I would say like first service is the people that would normally sit in the front of the, like, that's like the front pew people.

Yeah. 

And then like second service is the middle of the church. And then like third service is the people who would always sit in the back of the church 

and do, 

and do they sit far, far away. And they're the least responsive. They just kinda stare at you sometimes. And so, uh, there, there's three different crowds and it's, it's fun and, um, it's fun to enjoy the differences between the crowds and the people that come to each of those.

And so, um, not that any of them is different or in, in a bad way, they're just, just kind of fun, uh, for us as a team to see the differences and, and engage with it. And it does make preaching each service a little bit different, which is kind of, kind of neat for me. So I enjoy it, but. We have been talking about false idols though, in this series.

And so two weeks ago we talked about what are false idols and like we have them in the modern world. I mean, I'm, I've been pretty clear this say the last couple weeks. Um, we're all sinners. Like we are all sinners, and I'm a sinner. You're sinners. We all have idols. Like we can pretend like we don't, but we all do.

And they're either past, present, or future idols. We either have a struggle with them, we're struggling with 'em now, or we will struggle with them in the future. So we're just gonna have to figure out how to navigate it. And the thing is, we don't wanna ignore that idols exist. We wanna actually figure out how to navigate idols in our lives.

And so when things come up, how to say, oh, that's becoming a problem for me. It's getting in the way of God and I need to, I need to do something about that. And so that was kind of what we talked about two weeks ago this week. We talked about really kind of the spiritual idols that trap us. Uh, we call it, you know, there's some different scholarly ways they look at it.

They call it the Corinth Trap. The Pharisee Trap, and the Athens Trappings basically. Our, our intellect or our knowledge of the Bible gets in the way of our loving people really being transformed by Christ or surrendering to him. And that's really what those traps mean, kind of broken down. And so we can, we can often try to gain too much knowledge that we, we, we create our own separation.

And I think that's been my experience with people. 'cause I've grown up my whole life in church. And, and Matt, I know you've, you've had this experience too, uh, 'cause I, I know, uh, your history with church and so you've seen a lot of people that know a lot about the Bible, but sure don't seem to love Jesus very much in the way they treat people or especially their Christians.

So what do you think about like, the false idols of like spiritual superiority, um, and knowledge that people gained yet? They don't tend to really serve him the way they should or o obey him the way they should. 

Well, people have really kind of taken on that approach in not in all churches, so please don't hear this as a broad brush sort of statement, but where they almost feel like they've become gatekeepers of who can and who cannot.

Come in and out of the building to be a part of your church. Mm-hmm. Where they take on that mindset of, well, yes, we would love to have visitors here. We would love to have guests. We would love to have you be a part of our church. Right? But you have to stop this thing and this thing and this thing and these issues over here.

And you have to get rid of all of that before you are worthy enough to kind of come through our doors. And the minute you start. Kind of standing outside the church doors like a bouncer saying who can and who can't commend. You've completely missed the point, right? Because you've kinda lost the fact that Jesus died for us whenever we were in an absolute, abysmal, terrible, horrible situation of sin, and we didn't think we had any path forward.

And yet whenever we look at that now, it's like, yeah, I was awful. I didn't have to clean up before Jesus just said. Come here, be with me. You know? And whenever you have people that are taking on that approach, that's the one I've probably seen the most where there was a church that I had served at where I had built a relationship with the men's homeless shelter down the street and.

And I would go down there and I would preach every so often and kinda get to talk to these guys and get to know them and learn who they are. And they started coming to my church because we were about four blocks down the road so they could walk that distance from the homeless shelter. And I had a woman who told me, she's like, I think you need to start a separate Sunday school class from the class that we have here, right, for the adults.

I said, why? She said, well, I don't necessarily think that it's appropriate to be having these guys come in and be a part of that. Why is that a problem? She's like, well, we're talking about things that they don't really have a grasp on, and they're sitting around the table and they're asking questions that they, they don't have the answers to.

I said, but that's kind of what this purpose is with church, and 

they're getting the way of me getting the knowledge I want. 

Yeah, that's, that's, or they're asking questions that they should just already know. That was part of the mentality of it too. And that is. Not just heartbreaking in God's eyes. It should be heartbreaking in ours too.

Yeah, it happens all the time. Yeah. I don't want these people come here 'cause they smell, you know? Yeah. I mean, we live in Michigan, pure Michigan now. Smells like marijuana. That's true. Like that's everywhere you go, every store you go to. I was at the hospital doing hospital visits and like I, I got outta my car and it just wreaked a marijuana.

And then every row of cars I walked through just more marijuana. Like people are just sitting out in the parking lot smoking marijuana everywhere you go. But that's the reality of you're gonna be a church. People are gonna walk in, you know, smelling like marijuana. We had, we went and saw my daughter when student of the month at the school.

And this family came in and they just sat down next to us and they just wreaked of marijuana. I'm like, this is everywhere. Yeah. And so the problem is I've been around people who are like, you can't come here smelling like that. I'm like, you can't hear, come here smelling like alcohol. You can't come here smelling like body odor 'cause you're homeless.

Like this is a place for people who are, are showered and who have nice clothes and who like have their lives. Right. That's how people have been in the past at churches. I've grown up in, I've attended, I've seen, I've visited. And that's not Christ. Christ is come all you people, no matter how broken you are and lost and find.

Find your place in me, your rest in me, and I will give you peace and I will give you an answer and I'll give you a way. But you don't start perfect. Yeah. On the way you start broken and flawed and you transform. And so. The hard part is just recognizing that the idols of I'm superior to you in some spiritual way is a real problem in the church.

And so it makes us not love people. Well, it makes us not surrender to God. It makes us not be obedient to his word because we feel like we achieve some. Like status and in our world we like to play video games, so we've got enough XP where I'm high enough level, I don't need to put up with that anymore.

Right. I think that's, 

yeah, 

that's how people kind of treat it and, and act, and it becomes like this club mentality where I'm a, I'm a high level member of this club. I don't need to put up with this anymore. And that's not the reality. 

Yep. No, I'm, I'm, I'm with you, man. I mean, it's one of those things where I think, you know, it, it goes back to that like you don't know what you don't know.

Mm-hmm. Right? And so maybe, maybe those folks that come through the door, they don't know what they don't know. They know the parts of their life don't work, but they don't really know how to do it, what to do about it. That's why. People come through the door. That's why I came through the door. Mm-hmm.

Right. Um, but then when you flip that to the other side, and then you got these, you got people that know what they know, but they're still not living it out. And then it, then it brings then that, that what's faith without works and, and what is works and, and, you know, I, I think that's what we're talking about.

Right? 

Right. Yeah. I mean, so I think that the big takeaway I hope people get is we all have idols, and some of them are not the worldly idols that people would tend to say are the sins that trap us. It's the. Those of us who are followers of Christ and have been following Christ for any amount of time, we probably have some spiritual idols that are getting in the way of us loving people, obeying God and surrendering to him fully.

And we've gotta figure out what that is because, you know, and I talked about church hoppers, you know, I'm, I'm anti-church hopping. Um, very much so. Not just 'cause I'm a pastor, but I think people should figure out how to love the Lord in whatever context they're in. And if you find a good community, stay in it.

And be happy and, and stop letting the world tell you I gotta go find a new experience, a new experience, a new experience, because that's just e an experiential idol right in your life. Uh, we talked about that, you know, a couple weeks ago, that spiritual experiences are an idol. I need to have this new feeling or this new wow moment, and then if I don't have it, I need to go find that thing.

That's just another idol you can have, you know, deep experience with the Lord in whatever context you're in, if you choose to, because it's what you put into it, not what you get out of it. And people are always looking to get something out of church or an event. And if you put your all in and all that you're doing to glorify in, you're gonna get something out of it.

And I think that's where people get it wrong so often. It's not coming to get your nugget of wisdom. It's not coming to get your spiritual lift. You're feeling it's coming to pour into everyone else there to glorify God together. And that's the, that's the the danger. 

So there's a pastor that you and I both know, this is kind of in the way back machine for you, but Bob Combs, do you remember Bob?

Yeah. Bob, 

yeah. He had preached a sermon one time that he said, you know, there's so many people who come to church and one of their biggest complaints is, well, pastor, I'm not getting fed. I'm not getting fed. I come to your sermon and I'm not getting fed. He said, you need to start asking yourself the question, are you bringing a fork?

Like are you coming to church and bringing a fork? He's like, you can say all day long, I'm not getting fed. I'm not getting fed. 

No, we, we need that t-shirt. Hoddle. Bring your fork. We need that. Yeah, 

but I mean, Bob brought up a great point with that, you know, that you say, you know, well, I, I don't feel like I'm getting what I need outta church.

What attitude are you coming in with? Like, if you're walking in the doors and you've already got a bad attitude before you've even hit the, the, the minute you cross the threshold and you're coming through the doors and you're like, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of just coming here to go through the motions. You are gonna keep church hopping.

Yeah. And it's not gonna matter what church you're in. You're gonna still find the same problems every single church you go to. It might scratch the itch for a little bit. Yeah. But eventually there 

is no perfect church. Yeah. We're not perfect. I, I don't think we're perfect. No, we're not for everybody. We, we sail the time.

We know who we are. We know who we're not. If you don't, if you don't fit here, this may not be the place for you. That's okay. Yeah. You still love Jesus. We still love you. We can still be friends, but. I, I don't have to have you come to church to be your friend. Mm-hmm. Like you can go to our church. So we might all be happier if that happens.

Right. We might have a better friendship. And so, you know, we are our own unique blend of church because we feel like that's how God has called us to be in this time and place with the people that, that call us church home. It's not for everybody and that's okay. Um, people have different traditions and likes and interests and that's fine.

But we are, we are trying to be the healthiest church we can be for the people who do college, church home, and to encourage them to love them, support them on their journey, and really keeping Jesus as the center of that and the focus of their life and their relationships. And so if that's what you're looking for, then we do think you can be here for a long time.

And I don't want pe, I honestly don't want people here to be here because I'm the pastor. Like, I hope that people will find a way to be happy enough here that if I leave, they'll stay. 

Mm-hmm. 

And I, you know, you and I have been at multiple churches and Sure. We know when pastors leave, congregations tend to leave.

I, I would hate that. Like, that's not what I want here. I, because that means I did a bad job, I did a bad job preparing people for the broader context of God's kingdom and church that if they just go, well just go where Cyle goes. Like, I don't want that. Like, I'm not going anywhere. But like, but like all this is how 

rumors start.

Just as a, 

we heard, heard the podcast, you're leaving a whole lot of questions, so, um. Well, and then I talked about dying Sunday, so maybe they think I'm gonna, you know, I'm dying. But, uh, I think that our best thing that we can do for pa, for for people is just let them know the value of community, real intentional community, and intentionally being involved in that community.

Which means sometimes you have to forgive people that make you mad. Sometimes you have to hold your tongue. Sometimes you just have to love people who are unlovable. And the more that you figure out to do that, the more you're like Christ. Um, Jesus loved a lot of unlovable people who challenged him, who hated him, who spit on him, who put him to death, and he still loved him.

He still forgave him. He still had mercy on them. So I, I think that's the kind of people we're called to be. And when we have idols in our lives, they get in the way of us becoming like that, and they make us more like the, the, the broken world around us. And that's not what I want to become, and I know not what you guys wanna become.

And so what do you think, what do you guys think about the danger of spiritual superiority in your own lives? Let's, let's, let's turn it personal. What do you think? Yeah. 

Me, you want Ryan first or 

Yeah, whoever, whatever. 

Go ahead man. 

I, I wasn't prepared for a response. That's why I looked at you, Matt.

Matt's like, I'm not for a response. That's subtle. 

I wanna, I want you to answer. 

I want you, I wanna hear what you gotta say first, and then, you know, that'll, it'll spark something 

he needs. He needs the lock in handle. 

That's 

it's because I, it's 'cause I don't have that is why, why lock in? 

Yeah. So, I mean, it is so easy as a pastor to get caught in the trap if things are going really well at your church to look at it and say it's in even just a fleeting moment.

This is even in part because of me. That becomes so toxic because the moment you start thinking of it as my church, my church, what I did, you start looking at it and saying, well, nobody can do ministry like me. Nobody can get it right other than me. It becomes this slippery slope. I've seen this happen with pastors.

I mean, nationally we've seen pastors mm-hmm. Who have kind of. Had a rock, you know, slip from underneath and they were down at the bottom of the valley in no time. And I think that's one of the things that, from a church standpoint, we would have to look at and recognize is there's a level of humility that has to always be maintained, whether you're a pastor, whether you're just a regular.

Ordinary person walking down the street with a relationship with Jesus. You have to maintain a level of humility, and I think that Jesus lived that example out whenever, you know, he's washing feet, whenever he's putting himself last before things like all of this stuff that he did. You know, that's how you fight off that idea of superiority.

Mm-hmm. You have to start putting other people ahead of you and recognizing this is a race to the back of the line. Yeah. And I need to not be trying to be first, not trying to be in front, not be going for anything that's glorifying me because it's not about me. Right. 

Yeah. What do you think? 

Yeah, you know, I, I think, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm listening to Matt and I'm thinking the thing is, is, is, as you guys get it, I'm, I'm kind of a, you know, more of a, more of a newer, newer guy to this kind of thing.

So my experience is limited. Um. And, and so I don't know. I mean, I, I, I say it all the time, like if, if I had a superpower, like my superpower is like, you know, just kind of blind obedience, you know, 'cause I, I haven't, I don't experie, I, if anything I exist on the other end of it where there's a, that maybe that, that you could say it's an idol.

That part of me that says, you don't belong, right? You don't belong here. You don't know enough. You don't, you know, and, and then people. Because I read a lot and because I work so hard to implement all this into my life, right? I work so hard to live this life as close to Jesus as I can. Um, but in the same right.

Maybe that, you know. That opposite of not I'm extraordinary, but Mm. I'm not your guy. Right. And, and I, and I think that for me, Jesus always, that's, if, if there's a spiritual battle that goes on, that's probably probably the one for me on the other end. In, in the same Right. That's why I always just try to lean and turn and keep my eyes on God, keep my eyes on Jesus.

'cause that always saves me. And, and my idols never saved me. Right. I don't know. That kind of doesn't seem like it answers the question, but that's that's fine. That's how I, it's, that's how I resonate 

with me. I mean, for people who don't know you, I mean, you're, you're Ryan Crawl, you're becoming a in pastor in training, right?

Like in the lay minister, I think is what we call the fish title. You're working on reading books and learning and studying, taking courses. I mean, learning by history of the church and history of our church and, um. And the reason we have you on the podcast is one, you, you're faithful and available and it's good for us to have a third person.

It also frees, frees us up to not always have to be on the podcast, which is good. And we, we like Ryan's perspective and Ryan's insight and um, yeah, you're in a different place in your life and ministry than we are, which is I think, fun to have that perspective because, you know, I've been doing this a long time.

You've been doing this now. By half the time I've been doing it now, probably, yeah. I'm How many years you been doing it? 

16 years in now. 

16 years. Well know. Over half now, so. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

And when I met Matt, he was basically like you. Right. So 

probably even 

a 

little That's the future further. Yeah. Probably even a little further behind than 

where he's right 

now.

Matt was pretty bitter towards the church when I met him. Yeah. Yeah. Just in church in general. So, uh, and God's just gotten ahold of his life and you know, now Matt's pastoring and pastoring for 16 years. That's a long time ago. 

Yeah. 

Um, you know, so, um, 

well, working in ministry, not pastoring that whole time Well, working in 

ministry.

Yeah, 

yeah, 

yeah, yeah. But I, when I met Matt, he was working at Walmart in 

That's right. 

At the time. So in the electronics department. So come, life's changed. 

I did a four and a half year tour of duty. Yeah. It was something else. So. 

My favorite Matt story is, this is totally unrelated topic. The favorite mat Matt story is like a couple weeks after he starts attending church, he comes up and stands there.

He goes, yeah, I know a lot of these people at church. So, and well, I kind of figured he did because he lived in the same town as the church and he's like, 

it was a town of 4,000 

people, 

so 4,000 people. So he's like, but no, no, no. They've cussed me out at Walmart. Yeah. I was like, oh, sounds like church people.

Yeah. 

Um, right, but like, that's a spiritual security. I know better than you. Like I, you know, that, that comes from a place of, of. An idol in our life. Like we think we're, we're good enough, we can just let someone have it. Like, because, you know, we follow Jesus. That's not the case. Um, we talked about this last week and there was a pastor bragging to his staff about like ripping into a customer service representative.

I was like, I was funny. And I'm like, is that really becoming of the Lord? Is that how Jesus would've did it? I don't think so. I think we, yeah, I think those things become idols that are glorified on social media and the world, and we have to be careful that we let those idols influence us, become.

Something that we put on the shelf with God or we put on the shelf above God, I think it is dangerous. It's hard to admit that God's been replaced by something. It's really hard for, I think any, any pastor, especially to admit like, oh no, Jesus was first, but is he really? Um, I think that's the hard part, and I think we're just as.

We just have the same proclivity to taking Jesus off the shelf as anybody else. We, we just have an awareness that we need to get him back on there faster. 

And I mean, honestly, if you're looking just around this room, we've got multiple levels of pastoring kind of all sitting here together because Mark, you've been doing this longer than Ryan, but not as long as Cyle and I.

Right. So what has your experience been with, 

I know for me, I mean in terms of idols that I've wrestled with and struggled with. The intellectual piece of my faith and the emotional piece of my faith have been two things that have been things that I have idolized now, now that I understand, like a different context of it.

Not just like there's a little shrine in your closet, but like something that's taking up the focus of your time, of your life. Because like what I'll do is I'll like get wrapped up in the emotions of it, and then if something's not going well, then everything's not going well, and then I'm focusing on that more than I'm focusing on God.

And I'm not letting him take control of this plane. That's like spiraling. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everything's going badly. Everything's going badly and I'm not letting him do what he needs to do to correct it. 

Yeah. 

And so that's something I've had to learn to do. You guys have witnessed it where like I go through seasons of, I know Cody has called it Dark Mark, where like, like, like I'm just.

Truthfully, I'm idolizing the emotions and I'm focusing on that more than I'm focusing on God. That type of stuff is taking a bigger priority in my focus than God is, and it's so easy for anything and everything to do that, whether it's internal stuff that we wrestle with, or external factors that are trying to grasp at our attention.

Video games, social media, like any, any of the sort things that are taking a focus over God, there's always gonna be. Many things trying to grasp at us. And so I'm just trying to learn how to do better and better every day and let God continue to break me down and reshape me. I was talking with the students last night about that at Youth Group where the Holy Spirit's there to kind of be like dynamite, and it like breaks you apart and rebuilds you the way you ought to be, not where you were.

And so it's a process, it's ongoing, and there's always gonna be the things that try to grab your attention and your focus. That's why you have to be diligent with your faith. It's not like a, eventually you just start coasting in your faith. Once you do, you're not in a healthy spot with your faith. 

Right.

No, that's good. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, appreciate that. Dark mark. No, I I love the nicknames. We got Pie Piper, dark Mark chosen.

I chose him. Yeah. 

Jonathan Ru. Jonathan Ryan. 

There's 

the similarities between Ryan and 

Yeah. 

They think I look like. Of Jesus. 

You did kind of look, I, if I picture what Jesus looked like, you're probably close. Yeah. Really close. Hey, he's got a little bit darker skin. Yeah, 

I'm okay with that. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

So 

yeah, I think of Jesus, the think of Ryan.

Wow. Now I feel I 

don't double entendre though, because like you, you do. You're a loving guy. You care about people. I appreciate that. But also you look like Jesus too, so it's kind. 

So does that mean that when he does a baptism, he'll stand on top of the water too? 

You check that out this summer, see if that 

was a glass platform just underneath.

I'm willing to give it a go. 

Yeah, that would freak, that would freak people. I, 

we'll probably be disappointed 

that would freak people out. No, but um. No, it's just, it's good to, to do life together with just all of us. We know we're, these are conversations we're regularly having as we are all in relationship.

We're friends, we are hanging out together, we're playing games together where families are spending time together. And when we look at it, like, we're also having these real, tangible conversations about like, idols in our own lives and what, what does that look like? But I think the biggest danger for us in our context is spiritual idols.

Like those are mm-hmm. Those are really the things that we, we have to be the most careful about. Embracing 'cause those are the things that kind of come up outta nowhere. You don't realize it until it's too late and then you start looking down on people. I've been there before. I talked about Sunday back in college.

I, I thought I was better than everybody else in Michigan 'cause there were a bunch of heathens and going to hell. And, uh, I wasn't a very likable person. Uh, I was really judgmental at that time and so I recognized I needed to change and really got in with a group of people that helped me figure that out.

So, um, yeah, so we just need to do better and make sure that Jesus is the center, we are surrendered to him. We obey his word, live it out, and we don't forget to love people and make that a, a purpose of what we're doing and why we're doing just like Jesus did. So thanks for listening, uh, to the Huddle cast.

We'll catch you on the next episode.