HOTLCAST
HOTLCAST
The Hardest Idol to Destroy Is the One in Your Mirror
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In this episode of the HOTL Cast, Cyle, Matt, Ryan, and Mark dive deep into their "False Idols" series with an honest, unfiltered conversation about the idol of self — how we subtly (and not so subtly) put ourselves at the center of our own worship. With raw personal stories and pastoral wisdom, the guys explore how trading self-exaltation for true humility is the only path to real contentment and joy. Whether you're a pastor wrestling with pride after a great sermon or someone who's been searching for peace in all the wrong places, this episode will hit home.
Hello and welcome to the Holocast. I'm Kyle. I'm Matt. And I'm Ryan. And Mark's here.
SPEAKER_03Mark's here. Mark's here. Alive and well.
SPEAKER_00You know who else is not here though?
SPEAKER_03A lot of people.
SPEAKER_00The Westwood Mall Hippo.
SPEAKER_02That's true. Oh my goodness. Like right here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so like it's it's still at the mall. It didn't move. No. It was a rumor that then went crazy with AI.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It's been hilarious though. This rumor comes back every couple of years where somebody's like, did they sell the hippo? And it's like, no, it's still. I mean nobody goes to.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I went to that mall the other day just because it's like I was over it. I was like, I wonder what's over the mall. There's nothing. Nothing. There's nothing. It's it's sad.
SPEAKER_02It's like all malls right now, though.
SPEAKER_00If you'd like to put a hard legs campus there, that would be epic.
SPEAKER_02That would be let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it. The lobby would be huge.
SPEAKER_02And we would have the Westwood hippo. Hang on, hang on. Does the hippo convey with the property? Because that's an important question.
SPEAKER_00Someone's gonna steal it. It's gonna get stolen.
SPEAKER_02We bought them all.
SPEAKER_00It's just a matter of time.
SPEAKER_02It's way too famous. So now we're gonna have a Hoddle hippo and a Hodlax Lottle.
SPEAKER_00Well, here's the thing. I think the Westwood Hippo is an idol.
SPEAKER_03Ooh.
SPEAKER_00Oh it is a golden hippo. It is a golden hippo.
SPEAKER_03It's actually like more like silvery, bronze grape.
SPEAKER_00It's a bronze idol, Mark. Right now, it's currently being worshipped on Facebook. Is it how Jackson community events Facebook page?
SPEAKER_02Your son did also put it on as having performed worship at the lodge on Sunday.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking all every post I've seen. Now, if you don't know what's what we're talking about, the Westwood Mall has a like bronze hippo that you can climb on. It's a sculpture that you can play, kids could play on. And so it supposedly went missing, and then it people started putting in AI everywhere. Businesses on tow trucks, uh on our stage worshiping at at leading worship at wildfire worship for the youth group. Uh, you know, too. I just saw that my hair salon just put it on getting curlers, came in for getting a perm. So today, so Virginia Coney Island is in enjoying a hot dog. Yeah, it's going everywhere, it's going crazy. So um, but then that means we it's an idol, right? It's people are worshiping this hippo.
SPEAKER_02So I think worshiping might be a stretch here, but okay.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's a giant bronze idol that people are just spending their time focusing on. Let's say that. So that's fair. Yeah, but uh no, it's it's kind of funny if you see the post. The posts are are clever, some of them really have gone the nth degree. I think I prefer the ones where it looks like the actual hippo in this in them all, not the ones dancing on stage or getting a perm, but it's just they found a creative way to incorporate the hippo. So yeah, but I don't know. We I thought of it to myself, we should do something for the hippo at church, and then I was like, nah. We're all just outside, we're just on the edge of the county, like we're almost into another county, and then like next thing I know, it's on our stage leading worship. So there it is. So yeah, the hippo, but we don't really go to that side of town ever. Like we don't really have a lot of people from that area of Jackson. That's kind of the other side of town.
SPEAKER_02So when you say we, you mean from the Brooklyn campus.
SPEAKER_00Brooklyn campus, yeah. I mean, even Jackson campus, we don't have a lot of people from that area of town.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we do. We have more now than we used to.
SPEAKER_00From the Westwood Mall area?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, David and Katie are out that way.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Well, have they always lived out there?
SPEAKER_03Yep. They used to live basically across the street before they moved to apartments nearby.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, David and Katie. I apologize. You've lived out by the Westwood Mall. Say hi to the hippo for that. Well, if it were still there, they could, but yeah, that's right. Yeah, but um, no, it's been it's fun to see the things that people are doing. It's also fun to see how people embrace AI. I mean, AI is just it's a thing. Like it was funny, it was funny to watch people get mad at AI at first, like, ah, we're never gonna embrace AI. No, it's too easy to embrace AI. Um, I was using AI to guess a name of someone this weekend. Like I did I literally I spent hours on AI just trying to guess. I was playing a puzzle with one of our biblical kids and I was just trying to piece together stuff together just because I like puzzles. I didn't really care about the name, I just wanted the puzzle. I solved the puzzle.
SPEAKER_03I still hear people call it evil.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not. It's not. I think the people that crew use the AI can be the evil one. So it's a machine. It's a computer.
SPEAKER_03It's a tool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Money's not evil. It's the love of money that's the root of all evil. So money doesn't do anything to me, it just sits there and burns a hole in my pocket.
SPEAKER_02Is that gonna be a sermon for you, Mark, that uh AI is a tool? Bring it back.
SPEAKER_00But no, but I well, I think we all like it. We all like AI here, though. Yeah. Yeah. I think AI's getting smarter and smarter. I think the scary thing is AI is going to eradicate the world. I do believe that. It's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_02Eventually. I don't think it'll be in any of our lifetimes. No, I think our kids are all gonna get killed by it. But uh, you know, it is what it is. So I think I'll survive.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm close enough to death that I'm I'm probably gonna make it there before AI goes crazy. Close enough. I'm close enough. So you know, I've got I've got a good 10 to 30 years left, depending on some you know things.
SPEAKER_02So uh welcome to morality chat here to the mortality chat here at Heart of the Lakes. Um yeah, that's probably about right, right?
SPEAKER_00It's just reality.
SPEAKER_01It's reality, and it is that's okay. That's a long time. That's plenty of time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I could have three give or take a heart attack. So it's a thing. So that's true. Um, you know, so I think it's the the reality of you know, looking at life and the perspective. That got dark. This got dark with me. Yeah, it did. We're not here to talk about the end of our lives. Uh we're here to talk about the Westwood Hippo. No, um But we are we are kind of in a series called False Idols. This week we talked about the idol of self and self-exaltation and self-worship. And I think that's the really idol worship comes back to the fact that we believe we are God. We are our own God. Whether we like to say it or admit it, we we act as if we are our own God. We live to please ourselves, we live to exalt ourselves, we live to have whatever we want for ourselves, which is kind of what you do in worship of a God. So if you're doing it for yourself, you're worshiping yourself. And I think that's the that's where we came across in the sermon, just talking about the the hardest uh idol to destroy is the one that you see in your mirror and to get off you know off your worship shelf and really worship on Jesus and stuff. So what do you guys think about that? I mean, I I kind of have said this series, this is a struggle for all of us on staff, all of us as pastors. Yes. This is not a this is not a series just like, whoa is you guys, you're evil sinners, terrible are you. Join me and be like me. No, I think I'm just as broken and flawed with this, be especially self-exultation, self-worship, because I think we're all have a proclivity to um trying to make life about us and what we want, my desires, my plan instead of God's. I think it's something we we gradually get into sometimes, and I think sometimes we just dive headfirst into worshiping ourselves. Yeah. What do you uh I think about it?
SPEAKER_03I think we have to we start off by having to unpack that. Because I mean, when we're first born, all we know is I'm hungry, I'm uncomfortable, I don't feel happy, and so the only way we communicate is by communicating those problems to people by like crying. Like just the other day, my sister dropped off our my niece, and we watched her for the day, and I helped her until I came up to the church to work yesterday, and like she's crying, and I'm like, I want to help you, and I don't know why. So I was just taking a little cow thing, I was like, Moo! And for some reason that was working, where like she would stop crying. So I'm learning how to like just try things until they work uh by interacting with my nieces and nephews. Um, but yeah, you start off with communicating the things you need, and not that like like we kind of almost start off selfish and we have to learn how to be selfless. We have to learn how to look at things outside of our own heads. Like we're now like kids that are like four and five, my niece like Ryan Dawson, we're trying to teach them hey, you shouldn't prunt punch your sibling because do you like to be punched? Well, no, well, hmm, all right, let's not punch our sibling then because it doesn't feel good when it happens to us. So it's like something that you kind of have to learn and unpack as you grow. And we have like the duty to try and figure out how I don't know, I feel the duty to help these kids figure that out too. We're like, okay, like I'm seeing why Cody would use the whose hands are these? Like he used to do that in kids' ministry, and then he the kid would say, These are my hands. He's like, That means they stay on you. So um, but that that's kind of the thought that I have. We're like, we're having to unpack that. We're having because I'm stuck in my own head, I'm stuck in my own body. I see what my needs and wants are, and I have to make an intentional effort to step outside of that.
SPEAKER_02So I think that for me, whenever I'm kind of reflecting on it, sort of when I think through this stuff, with as a pastor, when you come down off of preaching, if you feel like, man, I just absolutely nailed that sermon, it did everything that I wanted it to do, I got everything the way I wanted it to go. You immediately have to check yourself because there is a there's such a fine line between the idea of I did great because God enabled me to do something awesome and praising him and worshiping him for that, versus I am just the best communicator that has ever existed and lived on earth. And if you aren't watching which side of that line you fall on, that's when I feel like that trap kind of comes into play. Where there's the mentality of, what if this was me? What if this can I be proud of because I served God well without it being the sinful level of pride of being looking at it and saying, you know, this is not just because I have these talents and I have these abilities, it's because God has given me these talents and these abilities. And having to take that time to kind of check yourself and kind of make sure that you're falling on the right side of that line is the really important part with that. Because the minute you start to slip up and start to focus more on, well, I am capable of doing this, that, and the other without immediately turning it around and saying, Because of God, that's when I feel that slope starts to become really slippery really fast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think the times I walk off the stage and like, I just killed that. I just did a great job. Crickets, yeah, nobody says anything. Yep. I'll greet everybody at the door on the way out, and nobody'll say, like, that was a great sermon. That really was nothing. Just quiet. And it's like instantly God's like, I'll show you. I'll cover you. You didn't you didn't care about like what I brought to the table. So uh, and so like you always as a pastor want to push back about those feelings because like you know that those are not feelings that you should be, you should be humbly going for the Lord. So the times that I feel like, oh man, I I just I bombed that, that's when I'll be at the door and people like those so great, it was such an important thing for me. It like changed my life, it's speaking right to me. I'm like, it's just like God's every time, like, haha, you need me. The Holy Spirit working and making up for your weaknesses and inadequacies, and I'm speaking to people on your behalf. And like, it's just that happens so often, it's almost comical. But there are still times I get down like I think I did a good job there. And I'm like, and it's just it's like a constant reminder from the Lord, you you're nothing without me. So um, and I just I kind of laugh, and then you know, I'll even I'll even say something to like one of you guys of like, yeah, I thought I did a great job Sunday, but then I was at the door and like everybody's like, see ya, have a good week. Bye. Like nothing. And uh it's just kind of funny how God God has a way of humbling us. I don't know if it's that way for every pastor, I think it's that way for most of us. But I I do I don't know that every pastor has that similar experience. I don't know if it's if that comes along with trying to be in the right place with preaching where it really isn't about the pastor, it's about Christ. And so um because I've talked to the pastors, I don't know if they have the exact same experience that we have. Um I think you know, and maybe it's just a heart condition that you need to have that you're you're you're open to recognizing when you're when you're being pulled in a more self-exaltation direction or not, but I think we try to keep each other accountable to that as best we can and and talk about openly because those are some of the trappings of being on stage, and you we have to be careful about those things. And so um I know that that's something that I'm thinking about co constantly and we're talking about as well.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think back all the way back to Grace Chapel when you first preached Roar, and that was whenever I had just started to get to know you and was kind of, you know, starting to come to that church, you stood up there and you told me, you know, you preached the first one and it was n it didn't go the way you were intending for it to start. And kind of halfway through the sermon, you switched it during the first service, and then when you got to second service, you completely transformed it into what you started to do first service. And I think that's another really key component of being a pastor, is you step up onto that stage and you might have had all of these thoughts of what you were gonna say throughout the week, what you were gonna do, the direction it was gonna go. And if you get locked into that without saying, God, this is not my sermon, this is your sermon. This is my being willing to stand here and preach the words you want me to speak to the people you have in front of me right now. There is a willingness of obedience, a willingness of humility where you step into that role and you take that time and you say, God, empty me out, get me out of the way, use me for whatever you need. And the way that transformed that sermon for you, there were so many people that were coming up and saying, Wow, that was just so what we needed to hear. There were discussions happening, there were amazing things that came of it. And it was the first time I'd ever seen somebody actually say, Yeah, this was not what I had planned to do with this. You know, I had studied for the week, I had done all the research and the things I wanted to talk about, and it was just gonna be kind of this goofy little sermon where I lifted my shirt and there was a lion roaring and all of these things that turned into something really powerful. Not because you're an amazing communicator, though you are a great communicator, but because you were willing to say, All right, God, this is yours. You do with it what you need to do, and I'm just gonna be the person who fills in that gap.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think we have to do that in all our areas of our lives. I think that's why the importance of talking about idols and talking about worshiping ourselves, because we you know, it's not just getting on stage and speaking to people. We we try to to put ourselves forward in everything that we do. Work, play, hobbies, home, you know. Um we just we try to we try to exalt ourselves because we think that exalting ourselves brings us joy and happiness, but it really just brings us chaos, I think. So I think I think the the goal is if we exalt God, we can't have all those things if God wants that for us and we stay in the right place with Him. I think that's where you know trying to stay content in life is better than trying to pursue happiness. Seek first the kingdom, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's like balance is what I you know, kind of hear what I hear you saying. Yeah, I was thinking about this as we were kind of talking, and yeah, I think most of my life I did worship myself. Uh but uh but on kind of both levels, right? Like uh this this these like idol wishes that I demand the world fits in this box that I have and in order to me to be comfortable, right? And and so as long as the world does what I need the world to do, I can be okay. And it is a sense of dependency. I can think about most of my life. I was either the coolest, most the smartest guy in the room, I was amazing, or I was the lowest, biggest piece of garbage that that ever walked the earth. But either way you looked at it, I still worship myself. Addicted to being awesome and addicted to to to being, you know, just nothing. Yeah, and you know, it's interesting just seeing that that idea. I mean, how the language I use is just like idol wishes, have these idol wishes like the world needs to be this way or I need to be this way. In a sense, I'm playing God, right? And and all that causes in me is a is a boatload of grievances, and then I end up feeling hopeless, defective, and alone because I end up feeling disconnected. And and for me, I think I spent a lot of my life like that until because it's a sense for me, like this idea of like a lesser God, right? Like false idols, false gods. I think I made myself a false god for a long time, and that's why I kept you know looking for diamonds in the sample, just never found it until I found the real God and when was able to connect with with Jesus in a way that I never experienced before. And and I think that's why these false idols are so important to to note, because I think most of us, at least me for a long time in my experiences, I didn't know what I didn't know. I thought I I I spent a lifetime, I spent almost two and a half decades searching for God and I didn't even know what I was looking for. And I and I was worshiping all these false idols that I thought were real, right? Like I thought, oh, this will make me happy. If I just get another college degree, I'll be happy. If I just get this house, if I just you know, if I'm just able to make this relationship work or get this promotion. Yeah and and I but I I think that when I suss that all out and boil it all down, it all comes back to me. You know, my problems don't extend beyond a mirror.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not a single one does. I think the real pursuit of happiness, I think the pursuit of happiness is a lie. I think it's the pursuit of humility that brings happiness. And I think the pursuit of happiness brings sorrow and it brings sadness because in the process of trying to make yourself happy, you recognize all these things that maybe you don't have or you want or you covet, and it it innately makes you unhappy because you you can't fulfill the happiness because there's always more, and we can always be happier. But if you if you pursue humility, you can be happy, you can be content, you can find you can find your joy in any situation because it's the humbleness that comes to Christ. I think the difference is when I exalt myself and worship myself, I'm pursuing happiness. When I exalt God and worship God, I'm pursuing humility, and it changes the outcome. And I think that's why you can be absolutely miserable pursuing happiness and make yourself just a mess and life be falling apart. And if you pursue humility, I don't know people who pursue humility who are unhappy, miserable people. I just I've never seen one somebody that's done that. False humility, yes, but real true humility that puts God as the center and your life follows him. I've not seen anybody who pursues that kind of humility and is unhappy or not content.
SPEAKER_02Because they're putting other people first. They're always saying, you know, it I've said this before in here that it's a race to the back of the line where I look at myself and I don't need to worry about my value. I know that my value is secure in the way God sees me. So I don't care if the people around me look at me and they're like, well, you're less than or you're greater than. I'm just me. I am just what I am, I'm who I am, and I am here to serve an audience of one. And if you love me, fantastic. If you hate me, I'm I'm okay with that too, because I only serve all of the things that God wants me to be doing. And I gotta be honest, the person in this room that I feel embodies that mentality the most is right over here with Ryan. Yeah, because I've heard him say so many times something to the effect of, you know, someone will come up to me and say, Well, you know, you wronged me, you did this, you know, you you must hate me, you hear all of these things, and you're a terrible person. Yeah, you're probably right. You know, like you step part.
SPEAKER_01Parts of me, man. Parts of me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. You step into that in such a way, unlike anyone I have maybe ever met, because you grab onto that with both hands and you're like, Yeah, there are times that I'm gonna do terrible things and I'm gonna wrong you and you're gonna be mad at me. And I'm not trying to do those things, but I recognize that it's there, that that's a part of me that exists, and I'm sorry for that, but it it's still who I am. And you grab onto that in such a way where you look at it and you're like, I will absolutely apologize as soon as there's something that I have said or done or been or whatever, and it's so refreshing. Whenever I first met you, I'm like, this guy's different in the best possible way. Thanks, Matt.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it's a lot you know, I think it's a significance thing. I I spent most of my life being the most significant person in the room and not giving two hoots about the consequences of my behavior. I would not think about the future, I would think about the now and what made me happy, and I do what I want when I want to do it, and I wouldn't do what I didn't want to do when I didn't want to do it. Were you happy? And and I was miserable. It led me to the point where where I wanted to be done doing this, you know, and so you know, I I think that's a it's a significance, significance thing. And you know, these days when I tell people, like, yeah, somebody's like, Man, I don't like you. Hey, I get it. Sometimes I don't like me. You know, I I I I can I can roll with that. But the the same idea is I tell people like I'm insignificant, like I'm just an ordinary regular dude, like I'm nobody. People like, oh no, you don't gotta build me up. Like, I'm a hundred percent cool with where I'm at, you know. Um, it's a balance thing, though, right? Like, balance life is one big Balance and we're always trying to maintain equilibrium and the world's always going, No, no, come here, shiny thing, squirrel moment, come this way. And that's why I always talk about bumpers, right? I mean, that's what we all are for each other. We're bumpers. As soon as we hit that hit that gravel on the side of the road, that's a bumper going, oh course, correct.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. I think you can find happiness in faithful humility. Yeah. And that's where you find it. And if you if you're not looking for it there, you're you're probably gonna be pretty discontented, unhappy, miserable, longing, anxious, afraid, frustrated, depressed, all those things.
SPEAKER_02And being content is way more powerful than being happy, though. By happiness.
SPEAKER_00Happiness is momentary. Content is a state that comes with joy, which underlies those singular moments of happiness that we experience, because there's happy moments, sad moments. I mean, you go back to Ecclesiastes, there's we're gonna experience joy and sorrow and dancing and weeping and um all those different things. Like we're gonna have the full range of human emotion. So what we're looking for is the contentment that comes with the state of having joy where everything is going to work out and everything's gonna be okay at the end of it. And uh my friend Mike, who attends church down in he's down in Florida right now, be back here in a few months. He he always he kept saying the whole time this is not an internal problem. And it's I think it's not an internal problem, and it's not an eternal problem. I think it's both ways. Uh when I look at it, like most of the problems we we have are external, they're not internal. Don't internalize them, don't make it a thing. And recognize they're also not eternal problems, like they're temporary, so they're fleeting. So that's been a really I've always had the eternal problem, like eternal problem kind of mindset. Well, this isn't that big of a deal, eternally, it's not gonna but I since talking with Mike and being down in Florida, I've been really thinking about this internal problem. Yeah, it's not an internal problem. I'm not gonna get mad about it. I don't really care. Yeah, it's a problem, it's a big problem, but it's not gonna be an internal problem for me. And if it doesn't get worked out, it'll it'll get worked out one way or another.
SPEAKER_02So I love that. Like I I've not heard that like that before, but I absolutely love it. Yeah, so thank you. I'd love to be able to practice that better. But thank Mike Cook for that. I absolutely will.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's the thing. I I I love this because I I think it when it becomes an internal problem is when we make up that story. Oh, yeah. Right? Like we we have stuff that happens and it's just what happens, and we don't have to like assign a whole lot of meaning to it, but stuff happens in life situations that are that are more difficult than others. But then when we go, you know, this happened and now I am a broken person because of it, or or you know, you know, Matt Matt is Matt's a bad person because this happened, right? Like that's when it becomes an internal problem for me. And and that's one of those things, like it's an internal problem. When it becomes internal, there's there's only an internal solution for it. Like, I created it, I have to fix this problem through through Christ.
SPEAKER_00So the key is as you're listening to this, make sure that life is about seeking humbly to worship God and God alone is first in your life, which makes means you have to make sacrifices in your time, your talent, your treasure to do so with your family, with your hobbies, with your career, with whatever you're into, so that you can find that place of contentment that comes with the joy that comes through following Jesus and living out the fruit of the spirit. If you want to keep seeking the things of the world and the things that make you happy, you're probably gonna be stay miserable and be miserable. And if you're tired of that, if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, it's time to try something different. And I think that different thing is seek Christ humbly, worship him, and follow his way. And that is the path that leads to joy. That that's the path that leads to happiness. And if you if you want that, that's what we do podcasts for, it's what we have sermons for, that's what we have Bible studies and life groups for to help people help people on that journey. So if you need help with that, let us know. But we're just we're just four people sitting in a room, also working on the same thing in our own lives. Uh, no matter you know who you are, you don't have to be a pastor to figure this out. You just have to be humble enough to follow Christ and keep him as number one in your life.
SPEAKER_03So it's five actually, Nick's in the corner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, five, yeah, five's over there, next over there. So math time. So but thanks for uh thanks for listening to the podcast. We'll catch you on the next episode of the Hoddcast. Be humble.