Beyond the Stage: Faith, Failure, and Finding God's Path - Christian Artist Tommy Williams Ep. 14

Meet Tommy Williams, a 21-year-old Christian musician whose profound wisdom transcends his years. From his family's guitar-building tradition to discovering his unique voice in worship music, Tommy's journey reveals what happens when divine purpose redirects human ambition.

Tommy candidly shares the moment everything changed—when God called him to abandon his dreams of being "the next Ed Sheeran" and instead write love songs to Him. This pivotal redirection shapes his distinctive approach to music, crafting songs that speak directly to human suffering while offering the hope of divine healing. His creative process involves placing raw emotions and even lies in the verses, then delivering powerful biblical truth in the chorus—creating a spiritual journey within each song.

What makes Tommy's ministry special is his theological depth concerning pain. Rather than viewing suffering as evidence against God's goodness, he articulates how God uses our darkest moments to draw us closer to His heart. This understanding permeates his songwriting, including his latest release "Come and See," inspired by Jesus's compassion portrayed in biblical narratives.

As both an independent artist and worship leader, Tommy balances creative excellence with spiritual authenticity. He shares practical insights about maintaining spiritual health while constantly pouring out to others, embracing Sabbath rest, and recognizing our fundamental dependence on God. His vulnerability extends to sharing his prayer requests—for unwavering conviction when faced with industry pressure and for God's provision in funding his music.

Whether you're a musician, ministry leader, or someone navigating your own pain, Tommy's perspective will illuminate how God works through our suffering to reveal His presence. 

Connect with Tommy!
https://linktr.ee/Tomymwilliamsmusic

Chapters

• 0:00 Channel Introduction and Welcome
• 0:27 Meeting Tommy Williams: Texas Musician
• 7:48 Musical Beginnings and Family Influence
• 19:13 Pivoting to Christian Music
• 28:38 Writing About Pain and Suffering
• 38:53 Staying True to Scripture in Songwriting
• 49:10 Music Production Process and Future Plans
• 1:02:05 Finding Spiritual Balance as a Worship Leader
• 1:15:31 Biblical Literacy and Authentic Faith
• 1:21:56 Prayer Requests and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Before we get into today's video, I just wanted to say thank you to all of the new subscribers. If you haven't yet consider subscribing, hit that bell notification so that you can see every time I put out a new video. A major portion of you that watch my videos haven't subscribed yet, so why not? It's free. You can also find a PayPal link below if you want to give a one-time or give a monthly to support the channel. Anything, great or small, is appreciated. Now let's get into the video. All right, thank y'all so much for joining us on another Faith and Failures episode. Today I have a special guest and he's actually in the same state. When I looked it up, when you sent me the little bio thing, I was like oh, he's like not down the street, but you know it's Texas, so down the street can be 500 miles. But so now you live in Austin, texas, right? Yes, sir. Okay, cool. So now do you go by Tom? Do you go by Tommy, or does that?

Speaker 2: 0:58

matter, just Tommy. Yeah, a lot of people ask me is my full name Thomas? No, it is straight Tommy.

Speaker 1: 1:05

That's like when people say my name and it's Stephen and they're like oh Steve, I'm like no, you cannot spell Steve with a P-H. Sorry, read your Bible. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Was that who you were named after?

Speaker 1: 1:17

Yeah, from the Bible yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:19

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:20

Yeah, my parents were. They're as soon as the guy preachers, so they're like straight up like biblical. Even my brother's name is Jonathan Love that.

Speaker 2: 1:30

So they stuck with it.

Speaker 1: 1:33

So, if you want to like, open up, talk about yourself, tell everybody where you're from and kind of what you do, cause you actually are the first like musical artists, like Christian music artists, I've ever had on the show. So this is kind of cool to me because I am actually I'm the pastor, but as of right now I'm also doing worship. So music is a passion of mine as well, and so tell everybody where you're from, your name and what you do.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Yeah, thank you again so much for having me. I am so excited to be on the pod. Yeah, so I am an artist, so I write and I produce my own music and I do everything except the mastering. So all the instruments that you hear in my music as of right now is all done by me, and it is a lot of work, but it is absolutely incredible and it stretches you.

Speaker 2: 2:22

It challenges you to grow in areas that you didn't think that you would need to, and so I'm super thankful to have my hand in all the pots in that way. But it means that I read a lot of scripture and I try to write about the human experience and how we are constantly in need of God in different areas in our life, and I like to focus on how we need God in our pain and in our suffering and our desperate need for His healing and for His touch and His presence in our life.

Speaker 1: 2:59

So you told me a little bit in your bio that you started off in Spokane, Washington, first right.

Speaker 2: 3:05

I'm originally from well. Originally only for a few years. Originally from California. We moved out to Spokane, washington, and then we moved to Texas around in 2017.

Speaker 1: 3:16

Okay. And when you say we was that like with your parents or did you? Were you married, like, how old are you? I didn't even ask that question?

Speaker 2: 3:22

I don't think.

Speaker 1: 3:23

I'm 21. Oh, 21. So you got a lot of wisdom right.

Speaker 2: 3:27

Dude no no, no, no, no. I try, but it is.

Speaker 1: 3:36

The weirdest and I say that and people think I'm joking, but I'm about to turn 40. But when I came to this church in 2020, almost every single person was like my parents' age or older, but godly wisdom would flow out of my mouth. Like how are you supposed to disciple people who have lived an entire life? Like I do not take for granted or or or ingest about? Like younger people raising up and leading the older people? Like that is the next generation. You are the next generation of leaders like you are the next pillars in the church and it's being formed right now before our very eyes. And sometimes people look past that and think you have nothing to offer, think like you can't speak into my life, when sometimes, if they would just be quiet long enough, they'd realize that the most wisdom is flowing from the youngest source. Let that sink in for a second. Thank you for that encouragement.

Speaker 2: 4:18

No, yeah, and I find it's often especially being a songwriter to chase this little tangent real quick. It's often scary because you're supposed to be writing about stuff that is beyond your years. You're talking about pain and suffering, and a lot of older people might look and say what do you know about the human experience? You're 21. But at the same time, we all have experienced everything that. What does Solomon say? There's nothing new under the sun, and our whole life is toiling, according to Ecclesiastes. So I might not have gone through as much toiling as someone 40, for example, but we have all gone through the same toil in some way or fashion. And so I try to articulate the human toiling experiences, as against all moods say, to the best of my abilities. But yes, I am from Austin. I moved with my parents.

Speaker 2: 5:17

And when I was I was heading into high school was around the age. So that's a tough transition point because most people have already formed their friend groups or their people. They've got their space. I didn't, and so moving from Washington State mountains, fresh air, big outdoor community into central Texas, it's just a different experience.

Speaker 1: 5:47

I went through the same thing a little bit when I was growing up. I was kind of how you were. I was born in Arkansas Don't tell nobody, but I was there for a couple of years and then my parents because they're pastors they moved to Missouri and then in that same town in Missouri for those 10 years. Then they went and moved to a place called Palestine which, if you've heard of Adrian Peterson, you put watch football at all. Adrian Peterson. I went to high school with him, oh wow yeah, that is awesome.

Speaker 1: 6:17

That's my claim to fame, yeah, yeah. And so we moved there and it was like I was going into seventh and eighth grade, so junior high and school, like I was the new kid and unestablished in the community and kind of had to relearn. So I understand that experience very well and the funny thing is like I don't know if you have kids yet or not. Are you married? You have kids.

Speaker 2: 6:36

No, not yet.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Yeah, prolong it as long as you can. But, like my son now, when we took this church in longview, he was going from the, I think, the sixth grade into the seventh grade. So it's like history kind of repeated itself and it wasn't like, yeah, we were trying to, it's just it ended up being so. I was able to, like help my teen, my my newly teenage boy, go through a transition and weird stuff in his life that I actually went through myself and didn't mean to, but in a way it kind of gave me a new outlook and perspective that I could actually help my teenager. So, wow, if you will, let's, that is awesome. Let's kind of start back at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 7:15

So what is it that got you? Like, were you always with an instrument in your hand? Like for me, for instance, like I'm a musician, all of my aunts and uncles on my dad's side, everybody sings, everybody plays. Like we went to a I think it was a 60 year wedding anniversary for my grandparents and everybody played. We rotated instruments out Like we just we set up speakers. We had a blast. Like it was out, it's in farm country and we just had a blast. So what's your history with music? Like, like where did you get that from? Where did you get that passion from?

Speaker 2: 7:48

yeah, so actually my grandpa builds guitars out in california and that played a huge instrumental pun intended role in my life and I experienced music from him. My dad and my grandpa would build guitars for each one of the grandkids or relatives oh, that's cool played guitar and so I have my guitar over here, it's you know, in a case, and I still record with it and I still play it and I don't, I don't play on stage with it. It's it. I want to keep it in pretty, pretty good shape as much as possible.

Speaker 1: 8:22

So so you like have it lock and key and you're like keeping it but you record with it.

Speaker 2: 8:27

Yeah, okay, all right yeah, and and it is. It played a huge role, role in my musical journey, because I saw my siblings getting guitar, I saw my dad get a guitar and I saw my cousins get a guitar and like I want a guitar, because this is the the thing in the family to get you know, like I want to do this and I I loved it. And I have a very specific memory of when I was like like maybe 10, like playing something. It just sounded awful, but I was like this is the best thing ever and I and I go upstairs and show my dad like dad, listen, I'm like playing this awful thing. He's like you sound great. Now, looking back, I was like I must have sounded horrible but you had a support system.

Speaker 1: 9:11

That's awesome support system.

Speaker 2: 9:13

Yeah, absolutely so. Does your dad play too?

Speaker 1: 9:15

and your siblings like do all, is everybody playing?

Speaker 2: 9:17

really, yes, my, my oldest sister plays, my brother, my oldest brother plays. And then I have one more sister I'm the baby plays. And then I have one more sister, I'm the baby of the family. So I have one more sister above me. She played ukulele. She's learning guitar right now. She was a little bit more, I would say naturally, like just by ear. She could just pick stuff up. So she would like pick something up on the piano. I had to work a little bit harder. I would say she's, she just all around, is more naturally gifted than I am in everything. She's, she just all around, is more naturally gifted than I am in everything. Sort of sort of aggravating but, she's the more naturally gifted and.

Speaker 2: 9:50

But yeah, so all of my my siblings do music or some way the only member of my family who doesn't really do music as my mom. But besides that we're all pretty musical and that that Jane passed down to us.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Now, as all your besides your parents and yourself are your siblings in Austin as well.

Speaker 2: 10:10

My brother and the sister right above me is Okay. Yeah, so my oldest sister is out in California.

Speaker 1: 10:15

Couldn't you have like a family band or have them on your album and you wouldn't have to play your own instruments anymore.

Speaker 2: 10:20

We could?

Speaker 1: 10:21

Yeah, put them to work, make them work for you.

Speaker 2: 10:27

Make a Williams family choir.

Speaker 2: 10:28

See there you go man, we'll worship album but it's just y'all yeah, well, I was I one of the projects I want to do, that I have locked in my mind that I guess this would be the first kind of inkling of. It is just like around the campfire. I'm really inspired by rent collective and they have this around the campfire album, the volume one, volume two, and I thought I've always wanted to do something like that, so just kind of in the background or backyard feel now have you yeah we can do the williams family choir then that'd be awesome.

Speaker 1: 10:58

Have you had like a full ep or full like album come out yet? Like, have you gotten that far? Are you just releasing little bits and pieces there?

Speaker 2: 11:06

yeah, so I in 2023. I released like a christmas album ep but that is a little bit more outdated compared to where my, where my abilities are now and and stuff like that. I mean, I'm 21, right like you, you advance a lot in two years.

Speaker 1: 11:23

Especially doing it all the time. Yeah, now, did you do the traditional Christmas or did you like make up your own Christmas songs?

Speaker 2: 11:32

I made two Christmas songs or three and then I kind of messed around with oh Holy Night and then it was kind of like a really short song as like the final song. So a lot of it was created and and I I personally absolutely adore christmas music. It is like a big part of like, even though I I hate playing sometimes the christmas song because they're they're you. You only play them like one time a year and it's always like you're having to relearn them, but I just love them. So this was a very special special place in my heart for this, for this ep, even though it's a little more outdated so you started?

Speaker 1: 12:13

you said you started writing music in 2020. Yeah, so what was it in your life that they? Obviously you have the background of your grandpa making guitars, like everybody's getting some. So there's obvious, like somebody doesn't just make guitars without the love of a guitar, like they chose that for a reason. There's a there's a reason behind what he was doing. And then you said your dad had the love family's getting guitars. What is it that made you finally like, okay, I'm about to start writing something. Like I want to actually, I want to make something out of this and not just own a guitar. I want to put it to work. Like what was it that got you onto that track? Like, where was your mind at when you started that?

Speaker 2: 12:53

This is. This is where the Lord pivotally changed my life. He it actually kind of started when we moved here to Texas, to the Austin area. We ended up moving here I didn't know anyone, and so, rather than we moved in the summer which is a bad time to move in Texas but we we moved here and I found myself with time and no one to spend it with except my family and, as you know, when you're in 2020, like kind of stuck with family or even before, but again not knowing a bunch of people, it was just I didn't have a lot of stuff to do with my time, and so I started playing guitar and I started getting really a lot better at guitar.

Speaker 2: 13:40

And then my next desire was to sing. And then, at my church, I had people who equipped me and believed in me and came alongside of me to sing. And then my next desire was to sing. And then, at my church, I had people who equipped me and believed in me and and came alongside of me to sing. And then my next desire was to write songs, and I was scared, I was terrified, because I'm like I. I we've all seen the person who's singer, song writer, in their Instagram bio and I'm like I don't want to be that person. And now I am that person.

Speaker 2: 14:04

But I I found myself very excited to pursue that and my, my buddy who, who was also into songwriting and music and stuff, he found out Ryan Tedder, who was the lead singer for One Republic, was doing kind of a master class on songwriting and production.

Speaker 2: 14:26

And I was like, oh, this is my door in and me and my fan were just talking about this the other day, how grateful we were for that class, because even though I had no idea the impact it would have on my life, even recently I was re-watching it just to try to pick up some more stuff now from where I am now versus previously, and it has played a pivotal role and even my parents just paying for it and coming alongside me in that and because they had no idea that that was a huge desire in my heart. That wasn't something I was really communicating, I was, it just kind of came out of left field. I was like, hey, my buddy said that he's doing this class, I would like to do it too and they paid for it and that was just something that was a huge, huge pillar in my life.

Speaker 1: 15:17

So let's pause right here for a second. Like, let's say, somebody's listening and they see you and they're thinking about doing the same thing. Like what was it in that class or that was going through your mind. Like what was it that finally made you like, okay, this, I'm going to try this? And it gave you courage to try it. Like what was it in that class? It's like, okay, this gave me the tools. Do you remember some like key things that kind of helped the juices start flowing or the ball rolling, whatever it was like. Would you mind sharing that with, like somebody who may be on the edge?

Speaker 2: 15:46

there.

Speaker 1: 15:46

And they're like I kind of want to do it, but I don't know if I can. I don't believe in myself, I don't have the skillset, I don't. I don't have this, I don't. You know, we always go down the negative rabbit trail.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Yeah, I would say you're always going to be terrible at something at the beginning, so don't let that stop you. You're, whenever you become a parent, you're not going to be just the most amazing parent out the bat. You're going to be learning, yeah, and when you are learning an instrument, it isn't something that you can just pick up. For most people and just be like oh, I'm a professional guitar player now. Yeah, like it takes dedication and time, and you not a lot of us, me included we have a hard time starting something because we're worried we're going to fail, when actually that's not at all what the Lord tells us to do in our life. He says continue to do this, lean on me and I will get you through, even though you're going to fail.

Speaker 2: 16:44

Think about our life with sin. He never called us to be a perfect person, but he recognized our flaws and gave us something that was sufficient, which is Jesus for our sin. So when we pursue something, we are afraid of failing, someone can say the same thing for being a Christian. I don't want to be a Christian because I can't be perfect like my pastor. I can't be perfect like them. Well, good thing that Jesus came into our story and filled where we were imperfect, where we are imperfect. So I would say follow the same example of what it means to be a Christian Pursue despite our failures. Pursue despite when we're going to fall.

Speaker 2: 17:31

When we show people a song and they're going to be like that was a horrible song, just keep pressing in. Keep pressing in, you're going to get better. This is something that really stuck out to me in the class. Ryan Tedder says says suck enough. Suck enough where you're not perfect at it, where you're not just mr I can play anything on piano or anything in every single instrument but where you know enough, where you're proficient and you're you're good at it, but where you still stumble into something that's beautiful because you you made a mistake and you're like, oh, actually, that was, that was a really cool move that I didn't expect this song to take, but now I'm going to go that way. Yeah, suck enough, but not too much, right.

Speaker 1: 18:16

I had an art teacher that kind of had that same philosophy in high school or no. She was junior high, seventh and eighth grade and she was. She would always say, like whatever you end up making, just flow with it and just make it into something beautiful, just keep going, don't stop, don't get upset, don't get frustrated, just keep going, because you never know what can happen on the other side. I like that.

Speaker 2: 18:37

That's good advice. Amen so good.

Speaker 1: 18:39

Now let me ask you this I know you are a Christian, obviously I will. When I post this video, I will give all your links to wherever you want. If you've got a website, youtube channel, tiktok, all that stuff, so everybody can find you. And I highly suggest everybody who is listening or watching, if you're on YouTube, click some of the links and just scroll through them. This guy, he's got the stuff.

Speaker 1: 19:00

Like I was getting chill bumps Before I was waiting, waiting him to get on the call. I was just like man, lord, is he's going to be my worship leader or what? But but like, okay, so it's. It's very tempting as a artist, a musician, a singer, a songwriter, to go the other way. Or maybe not go the other way and make more money, but kind of talk about God but not really address any issues, not really talk about things head on, not really deal with sin, not really come from a biblical standpoint, but just be Christian enough to be underneath a label. You know what I mean. So what, what has what has set that? And I think I think I know the answer, but you'd be surprised, right. Like what has helped you stay on that path? Or what has even like what made you go on that path of actually being like an actual Christian artist, not an artist that is a Christian?

Speaker 2: 19:55

I would say the Lord gave me no choice, because that wasn't. That wasn't my plan. A lot of people might not know this. I was telling myself before I felt, called I'm going to be the next Ed Sheeran, Like I'm going to sell out Wembley, Like this is my goal. And what I didn't realize is my goal was to make my name known. Yeah, I was trying to do it for my own glory, because I have this from my own glory.

Speaker 2: 20:32

because I have this, because we all have this deep longing to know that we belong or to know that we're valuable, or to know that we have something that to offer to the world, and I was trying to fill it through my own ability to be a great musician, to be the next Ed Sheeran yeah. But what changed is when I was out in a ministry out in Colorado. It's called Wind River. Shout out, wind River. I love y'all. It's a great ministry. It's like a family camp.

Speaker 1: 21:01

Okay.

Speaker 2: 21:02

And I was working there and one random night night I had already sent an EP to my producer to produce. Thankfully he didn't start it yet, but I felt the Lord tug on my heart and tell me I don't want you to write love songs to girls, I want you to write love songs to me. And in that moment I just knew oh my God, if I continue with the direction that I'm going, I am being disobedient. And then I had a deep, deep conviction to just stop in my place and go a different direction, because I knew that that's what God, the King of the universe, was calling me to do. And if I didn't do that, I would be telling God to go to the other side of the room. I'm going to go my own way and just shoving Him away, and that's not at all what I wanted. I knew that's not what I was called to do. I was called to advance the kingdom of God and through His Holy Spirit he would equip me.

Speaker 1: 22:10

Well, that right there says a lot about character, and I actually just preached a message this past Sunday about the cost of following Christ. Like when we follow Jesus, when we say, not my will but yours, it should cost us something. Like we shouldn't be all rainbows and butterflies and like, oh, everything's gonna be great and good. No, when you follow christ, it costs you. When you follow the way of the father, it will cost you. Now the end result is much better. Like his plan is better than ours. His wisdom is high.

Speaker 1: 22:38

You know his thoughts are above our thoughts like that's that's not what I'm talking against, but our human nature. Like making our name known instead of his name known. I mean even saul, that was anointed. King he was. I think it was in first samuel something I just read it this sunday but he was saying that, like you, you have made your name known, but I'm gonna strip you of everything because you, you were anointed, you were called to be the king, but yet you would not follow what I told you to follow.

Speaker 1: 23:07

You begin to do things outside of what God wanted him to do and do it his own way, and so God began to. Okay, if that's what you want, then you're going to, you're going to have to lay in the bed that you made, and so I've been in that place where I have ran from God and the call of my life because I wanted to do it my way. I thought that I had it all figured out, you know, and even though I have charisma and I have like people skills, that carries you only so far until you crash and burn because God wants you to get back on his path. So I'm glad I, I I honor you and actually having the wisdom and the hunger for the path that God has for you, because that's very hard to walk away from, especially when you begin to see the opportunity in the other direction. That's not necessarily a bad direction, but it's not the direction you were called to, and so that's very awesome.

Speaker 1: 24:05

So you mentioned it a little bit when we started about your music talking to people through the pain. One of the big ones that, as a pastor, I hear a lot about is like unanswered questions, all right. So your music it talks to people in pain, unanswered prayers. Why is it important to you that that is your kind of your writing model of songs that you put out Like? Why is that important to you?

Speaker 2: 24:31

Yeah, there's two aspects. I will go personal first, then scripture. Personal I want to write about things that are important to me, not only important to God, but also important to me and people going through pain and suffering is important to me, and being able to write about my own pain and suffering is important to me, and I think that that's the most pressing question people have right now. Question people have right now, I mean, like ask any atheist, why aren't you a Christian? They might answer a few different things, but one of the common things might be.

Speaker 2: 25:13

It probably is there's pain and suffering in this world, and what I want people to see is that pain and suffering doesn't mean that there isn't a good God and it actually God allows pain and suffering doesn't mean that there isn't a good God, and actually God allows pain and suffering to drive us to his heart, because we need to realize that we are not sufficient on our own.

Speaker 2: 25:34

We need God, and often pain and suffering is a tool that God uses to drive us back to him and to show us hey, we have a need and it is our Father in heaven and God himself. This is kind of the scripture part. God himself says that he recognizes our suffering also and the fact that Jesus took on our suffering on the cross, not just our sins, but the whole experience, our suffering, our pain, because by his wounds. Right, it says we're healed in Isaiah so, but that doesn't mean that it's just an instantaneous oh boom, I'm healed, I'm Christian now, everything is a-okay. I'm bougie, you know like? No, we are Bougie. Might've not been the right word, but we are.

Speaker 1: 26:23

No, it kind of is. So we are because you might have not been the right word.

Speaker 2: 26:25

No, it kind of is, yeah, like we're this fancy Christian now, you know? No, it is. Often. The Lord works through time and time and time and time and he heals us through our proximity and just growing close to him and seeing our need for him and seeing how he satisfies every need. Because the psalm says in your presence is the fullness of joy. And I have and this, this part summary I have all the pleasures in you. And and when we see that we see our pain is suffering on the cross in jesus, the fact that our fullness of joy is found in Jesus and we can have whatever pleasure we want in Jesus, not whatever pleasure we want, but whatever pleasure he has is ours to gain and he cares for us in that way. And he also cares for the widow at the I'm sorry, the woman at the well. He cares for her widow at the I'm sorry, the woman at the well. He cares for her and her suffering and her bad decisions. He cares for her. He cares for the woman of the blood discharge. He cares for her and her pain and her suffering. He cares for the mom who lost her kid and he goes in and he interrupts that funeral and they're carrying that child out and she sees Jesus come in and change their story.

Speaker 2: 27:51

That God cares about our pain and suffering, because we were never meant to experience pain and suffering, but we brought that in and he wants to change that in the world and that is a part of the reason why he's coming back is to set everything to right. He said everything to how it's meant to be. I think CS Lewis, just out of this world, summarized it perfectly in this one little phrase about Aslan, where he says wrong will be made right when Aslan comes in sight. It's like when Jesus comes back, all of our pain and suffering will be healed fully and that moment will be just an instantaneous healing. It's going to be a cool experience, but until then, I want to show people that there's purpose in pain, yeah, and that there's a healer who cares about our pain.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Now, when you're writing these songs and you're speaking to people about their pain, you're speaking to people about their suffering. So you kind of touched on it a little bit. But how do you, as a writer, how do you make sure that you stay in the confines of scripture, like you just kind of said a little bit, but like it's, it's, it can be easy to write a song about a certain topic, but then you have the parameters of like okay, I need to, I need to have the scripture, but like it brings another dynamic to it that you have to like. Okay, this, this has got to work this way because of scripture. Like, how do you stay on task with that?

Speaker 2: 29:23

Yeah, you're so right. It is hard sometimes because there is this perfect God and we're in this imperfect world and I want to show the contrast of those things. But I don't want to contradict. I want to show the contrast without contradiction, because what ends up happening is a lot of artists will write something that sounds really good and, honestly, it fits with what the worldly narrative is and that sells. That sells really well, because that's what everyone hears. I can manifest my good healing vibes. No, we need to stick to scripture and and and that puts out false it puts out false scripture.

Speaker 1: 30:10

I mean it. It creates a like it's all it's. The burden is ours to heal, the burden is ours to remain righteous, and we, our righteousness, next to God's is like filthy rags, like we don't compare, we don't heal. That is his gift to us. That is not our gift, that we're manifesting because we believe hard enough. Like that's not how it operates.

Speaker 2: 30:29

Sorry, go ahead yeah no, yeah, you're so right. And so one of the things that I've, I think, is a huge gift, is the Lord keeps he. The Lord keeps me focused on the scripture through daily devotion, on the scripture through daily devotion, through my own quiet times. He keeps convicting me of sin, to remind me of my dependence in areas where I need to draw to him. But then also the Lord keeps implanting scriptures on my heart, and so, even if I'm not writing with my Bible out, I can still reflect on the truth of the Bible, yeah, and be like, okay, I know this to be true. So how can I fit this truth in my song? You'll often hear when I'm writing, I have everything is a setup to the truth at the end. So I'll contradict, I'm sorry. I'll place the feeling, the emotion maybe even lies in the verse or the pre-chorus, and then the chorus is the truth, and that is the crescendo of whatever lies, or being exposed by the chorus or by the last chorus, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 31:38

Can you give us an example of one of your songs that does that?

Speaker 2: 31:43

Yeah, I don't know any that are out right now.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Oh, you can't get it. I can't, I can't, I can't give it away too early.

Speaker 2: 31:50

No, but you will hear more examples of that. That's a good call. I don't know if I have something out right now that is like that but my writings that are coming out. I have probably a two year release scheduled out in front of me, so I'm so you're right, I'm thinking too far ahead, but you will be hearing that in my writing.

Speaker 1: 32:08

Because, just being anybody who's ever learned an instrument or learned how to write songs, as you grow as a person and especially in the faith, as you grow in your faith and understanding of the Word, it changes the way that you see Scripture, it changes the way you see the world, it changes everything, and so it ended up changing the way you write. So it's awesome that, like in when you release that, we're going to see the spiritual transformation that you're experiencing right now in the future songs. I think that's so cool. I don't know, why?

Speaker 1: 32:38

but it's like it's like we're like seeing glimpses of like. This is what he is Like. You can even in like other you know the journey. Yeah, as the songs come out, the journey is like pretty evident if you pay attention. That's cool.

Speaker 2: 32:51

That's so. Yeah, and I've I mean, I've written songs where I wrote a song about going through something difficult or something like that, and then six, seven months later I start thinking about that song while I'm going through something difficult or something like that. And then six, seven months later I start thinking about that song while I'm going through that season, just talking to someone. I'm like, oh, this is a cool song I should show you. And I pull up the lyrics. I'm like, oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 33:16

You, minister, to yourself.

Speaker 2: 33:18

Yes, and it's not me, it's the.

Speaker 1: 33:21

Lord the.

Speaker 2: 33:22

Lord is writing and I resonated in six to eight months. And how good is God to do that? Yeah, like we could. He could just be like okay, tell me, you got it, like you can go write, or whatever. But no, he's intentional to speak, and even speak before a season I go through to to remind me that he's there.

Speaker 1: 33:47

Like I've listened to like our live stream from our church and like we were having awesome services and I'm just like kind of listening back. You know we're you know adjusting sound and you know fine tuning things on the stream so I can instruct them. Hey, watch this. But like I'm listening to it and I'm just like, holy crap, I've got goosebumps. And it's not that. I'm like, yes, I'm not like wow with myself, but I'm like Lord, even now, when I hear it again, it's just like your presence is like so evident and so strong.

Speaker 1: 34:16

It's like, yes, I'm experiencing it twice and it's like it's the same, it's so cool and even sometimes, like yeah, we put out like like the vertical, you know, tiktoks and shorts and all that stuff from the sermon and and I'm the one that edited, edits it and puts it out and post it. And then it pops up later in the week and I'm like, wow God, and I'm not like admiring myself, but it's just like the words coming out, it's like it's not my words and I'm just like I thank God all over again for just being a vessel, like it's just.

Speaker 1: 34:52

I get exactly what you're talking about. Like this happens to me all the time and I'm like Lord, that is so cool that you can use a broken wretch.

Speaker 2: 34:59

Like me, Like that is so good.

Speaker 1: 35:03

So, speaking of like broken wretch, like Broken Wretch, you mentioned a little bit what are some like, maybe one of your recent songs or some of the ones you have on TikTok that you can talk about, what are some instances or seasons, or even relationships, whatever that may be, that spurred or or birthed you one of your songs that people can get ahold of.

Speaker 2: 35:28

Yeah, so come and see is one of them. That's my most recent song, so I wrote that song probably in 20, I started writing it in probably 2022, 2023. And there's about nine different versions of that song.

Speaker 1: 35:45

Oh really.

Speaker 2: 35:46

And here's the last version. Yes, but the reason why I wrote it stems all the way back to the first time I saw a scene from the Chosen. It was the scene where Jesus, jonathan Rumi, is talking to the man at the well and he has such compassion and so much grace. He's just looking on this man and he gets on his level. He starts kneeling down, I think even, and he's just talking with him and he asks him if he wants to be healed. And this man who has experienced so much affliction and pain in his life is sitting there and he starts compassionately. Jesus starts compassionately talking to him and that was the first time it ever occurred to me that Jesus had compassion Like I knew it.

Speaker 2: 36:39

I heard it so many times, but I always believed it for other people. I've always struggled believing it for myself. God has pity on me, god has mercy on me, god loves me. Even yesterday, I was listening to a sermon and I got emotional just when the pastor said God has pity. It is something I'm always struggling to remember is that God has grace and compassion for me.

Speaker 2: 37:08

But when I saw that scene, it just moved my heart and I just started crying and I just started recognizing that Jesus has compassion and I wanted to capture that in a song and so I wrote Come and See again, not inspired by the chosen, inspired by the same scriptures that the chosen used and those scenes impacted me and specifically again, I just was like a newborn baby, just crying, when I saw the scene where it was under the fig tree and Nathaniel was under the fig tree and Philip says come and see. Then Jesus says I saw you under the fig tree. And you have all this emotional connection now with Nathaniel and the experience that he had to be seen like that and to have Jesus' compassion shine on him. It's just, it moves me every time and so I wanted to capture that in a song. And to have Jesus' compassion shine on him. It moves me every time and so I wanted to capture that in a song and that's one of the reasons I wrote Come and See.

Speaker 1: 38:09

So, on the most recent one, you said that you have out there what was kind of the creative process as you were writing it. How did that unfold, as you were kind of trying to take your emotion from seeing this and then transforming it into a song? What did it look like?

Speaker 2: 38:24

yeah, so again, there's probably five or six different files on my computer of the records, not not of the different versions, but of just the newest version, yeah, the release version. It was a long process because I was actively trying to get my sound in there and trying to feel it out, and the first record version is pretty pop-like. There's a lot of pop elements in it and it sounded cool. I liked it for that time, but then I moved on. I was like you know what I want, something that registers a little bit more with me, and so I rerecorded it. I was like this is awesome, this is great. And then I rerecorded it again. I'm like this is even better. And then I lost all my files in a crazy accident and then I rerecorded it and then I got immersed the two files like this is awesome.

Speaker 2: 39:20

It was a crazy journey to get this song out and and then I I start approaching the due date. I'm like I'm I was working with the producer. I'm like this isn't going to get done in time. This stinks. I was really discouraged. And then my fan was like you should just release more of an acoustic version of it. I was like it's gonna be less work. Okay, I'm gonna get it out on time, because I I a creative If you're listening to this and you're a creative too, you know we're terrible with due dates. It's so tough. So I wanted to be like I'm getting this out on time, I need to do it, I want to discipline myself in this way, and so I sent that one to to my producer. That was my first big project where I mixed and produced everything, and I only had it mastered by my buddy, joshua Crowe. Shout out, joshua. He is a great friend and I was texting with him like 20 minutes before we got on the show. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 40:20

So would you say that this was one of the hardest songs you've done, because you had to re-record it so much, or you think it just was longer in evolution?

Speaker 2: 40:29

It was definitely probably the most aggravating one, but is it your favorite? Is it your favorite one? Probably, of the ones I've released? Definitely I've got some more up my sleeve that I literally cannot wait to release. The next one I'm going to release is called, I think I'm going to release next is called Homestead, and that one might be my favorite. We'll see.

Speaker 1: 40:52

So when you release them, do you release them like as a single, or how do you do that? Like so people that they want to come and follow you, like how are you doing all that?

Speaker 2: 41:00

Yeah. So I'll kind of unveil my strategy over the next little bit. Lord willing, this strategy will work, but you never know again, you who knows, if I have another nine versions of my song. But I I'm calling I'm kind of calling them phases. I have three phases, uh, and kind of based off of a phases. I'm a big Marvel superhero fan and so I was like you know what? This is a great way to do it. So I'm in phase one right now, which is more of singles. I'm going to be releasing some singles and then I'm going to be collecting it into an EP with kind of a new song as the head song, and then after that I'm going gonna release a, a big project which would be produced into an album and then, but it's gonna be broken up into two halves and the two.

Speaker 2: 41:50

The first half, I won't reveal too much, but it is on the topic of going through pain and suffering, and the second one is going to be the, the accumulation of everything kind of coming together in a cohesive story with a new song on top, which would be the whole kind of dynamic summed up into one song basically.

Speaker 2: 42:13

So it's going to be an overarching story and then the last phase is going to be another EP, with singles releasing before that, based off of one Bible story. The whole EP is going to be based EP, with singles releasing before that, based off of one Bible story. The whole EP is going to be based off of one Bible story and I'm taking sections of the lessons that we learned from that story and we are and I'm going to be collecting it into an EP.

Speaker 1: 42:34

That's going to be the story, all collectively right. Is that what you?

Speaker 2: 42:38

said Like you're going to have different pieces that are different songs.

Speaker 1: 42:41

Is that what you mean?

Speaker 2: 42:42

Yeah, so it's not. It be like telling the story of it. It's going to be basically the lessons or the experiences that we see in that story. So it is the story of Mount Carmel, okay, which I think is probably the most epic scripture in the entire world. You got the prophet up there mocking the the false god ball, and it is just absolutely legendary.

Speaker 2: 43:09

It is my favorite scripture. Then, a little bit after that with with a god coming to, I believe, is elijah on the mountain. Okay, where he he encounters the lord with the whisper and you're saying all it's.

Speaker 1: 43:22

You're saying all these are going to be released and and so what? What platform are you the most active on so that people can make sure to to be tuned into what you're doing? Is it tiktok? That's where I found you, that's where we started talking, but that may not be where you're the most active I would say probably.

Speaker 2: 43:40

Either. Instagram is probably the one I'm most active on. If you want to reach out, or if you're an artist and you're like I would love to songwrite or I'd love to get connected, instagram would probably be the best way. I'm the most active on there, but I post about the same amount on both TikTok and Instagram. You'll get similar content on both.

Speaker 1: 44:01

Okay, cool. So now you said you also lead worship. I know some of your videos on TikToks is like of you doing that very thing. Now, this is a question that is very important to me because I really understand this and this is not from it's from the music standpoint, but people that may not understand leading worship. It is a very serious position. Like it is right up there with like being the pastor. Like there's so much more required of you. You have to pour into the people. You're leading with the musicians, the singers, and then you have to be, you know like this, with your pastor or associate pastor. You know whoever's over you and is right above you. Like you have to constantly pour into other people.

Speaker 1: 44:53

So how do you as a person, not only doing this as a job and you're you're filling a position, but you're also and you're filling a position, but you're also you're spiritually, emotionally and mentally filling a need for people who will come to you because you're one of their spiritual leaders? Like you may be young, but you are one of the spiritual leaders in the church, you're leading worship, you're out there, you're in the front. What do you do to refill yourself? Because you're constantly pouring out? Like, pastors do this a lot. Everybody always wants them. You know they want to feel like they're the favorite. You know what I mean. They, you know they lift their pastors up. They lift their worship leaders up, and so they constantly are coming to you for guidance for whatever. For guidance for whatever Like. How do you stay spiritually healthy when things are constantly being pulled from you? What do you do for things to be poured into you?

Speaker 2: 45:52

Yeah, it's easy. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2: 45:55

It's no problem at all yeah, man, no, it is probably, as you would know, it is the most important thing. It is probably the hardest thing to stay consistent on, because we just get set in this rhythm of I can do this, I can do this. I'm Mr Fix-It even is an easy mentality to get put into. I think it is easier for me because I'm not the lead pastor worship pastor at my church, but I do fill in other places. Quite often I do lead for my church in kind of a when my worship pastor is out I will fill in or I am on stage leading as just one of the worship leaders and so. But I do help out in our college ministry a ton as a college ministry leader and I've discipled dudes and I've had experience on the more pastoral side of ministry in that sense sense, and I think the area that has really helped me with that is prayer, is prayer and, ironically, sitting still because I am such I need to get stuff done.

Speaker 1: 47:18

I'm going to go do this this, this, this.

Speaker 2: 47:19

I need to be productive, this, this, this. But in reality, the best thing I can do when I'm with God in my quiet time is just sit still, and that's become a spiritual practice that ebbs and flows in times. Sometimes I need to write down journal my prayers, and that is what that looks like in that season, where sometimes I need to be consistently just sitting still and being reminded that he is God, like the psalm says and be content with being still and resting and seeing that I need rest, because it shows my dependence on God, so that and just feeling His presence through that is such an infilling thing.

Speaker 2: 48:05

I think also reading the Word is extremely, extremely helpful, because then I don't have to make stuff up, it's not on me. I get to steward that relationship according to the Bible and so I don't feel the pressure of making something up or feeling like I have to have the best catchphrase. I get to be a listening wall and I get to share scriptures and how that can apply to their life or how that can help them or how that can encourage them. That can encourage them and I since I'm not a head pastor and you might actually be able to talk more about this I don't. I don't feel like I have the same responsibility or the weight maybe, but I do. I do share some of that and I do feel the responsibility of that. So, prayer, reading the Bible and honesty, honestly, nature, being out in nature is a huge and feeling and having community. One of the things I used to do a lot was hike by myself. I would go out and hike just around. There's not crazy hiking spots.

Speaker 2: 49:16

So I feel pretty comfortable doing that in Texas. You're not, it's not like you're going up a 14 or in Colorado, I felt pretty comfortable hiking by myself but I've invited others on my hike. When I have my rest days, my Sabbath day, I invite other people on my hike and say, okay, I want to be in biblical community and that means with my church body and inviting them on a hike and that is a huge way I can hang out with other people and get infilled. And yeah, I would say those three areas community, bible reading and prayer has been my infilling points. So nothing crazy original, it's been the same since the book of Acts. You see the same stuff community prayer and Bible fasting, all that.

Speaker 1: 50:04

We have a very simple but basic, but powerful establishment. We even gave all of our we had last Friday night we had all of our volunteers and staff, we had about 25 people and we gave them T-shirts and it says I have this thing I say almost every single Sunday 5, 5, and 5, the challenge of 15. I say almost every single Sunday five, five and five. The challenge of 15, five minutes of prayer, five minutes of reading a word and five minutes of praising God every single day. And so my mission and vision for our church is to bring spiritual maturity back to God's house again, like we need to be spiritually well and spiritually healthy before we tell anybody out there what to do. And so we can be in, not agreement, and we can be at each other's faces but love each other.

Speaker 1: 50:49

Still, one of the things Jesus said before he left planet earth. He said, hey, how you love each other is how they will know the love of the father. And if we get that back intact in the church again and stop backbiting and, you know, trying to make teams and all this other stuff, like imagine what, what advances we can do for the kingdom of the lord, um, so in all this, like the writing, a lot of the, the, the years you've said have been very recent years. So, in this whole journey, what has God been teaching you along this way? That maybe something has been paramount to you staying on the path and something you cling to that keeps you going.

Speaker 2: 51:33

Yeah, I would say it's probably the same thing I keep repeating is my dependence. I need to see my dependence on God. I need to see that I'm not self-sufficient. I need to see that I have this deep need for God and I have a few spiritual practices that I have. I have to take a Sabbath rest. I make myself I don't If I'm left to my own desires, I don't. I just work and work and work and work and work. I make myself take a Sabbath rest and I'm getting better at understanding what that means because even by nature I still have, like I still struggle not working on my Sabbath and it's getting better. But that's an area where I'm trying to improve because I know that I need to be in the Lord's presence and I need to take rest to show God. I trust that the world is still going to spend without my or still going to spin without my hand at the wheel, still going to spin without my hand at the wheel, like when you asked me what I was doing, like how has my day been?

Speaker 1: 52:44

Like? I am one of those people I feel like I am not doing right if I'm not accomplishing or moving the ball in a certain direction.

Speaker 2: 52:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:54

And so I'm about to be 40 in October and I'm having to teach myself this because, and then I'm like today, I, I, I didn't have a job I had, so I have a media company as well.

Speaker 1: 53:05

You can probably tell by my setup it actually looks, you know, a little professional at least. So I do. I shoot commercials and video and stuff like that, and then photos, and I shoot real estate mainly almost every day, and one of the jobs got canceled this morning, and so I'm like you know what? I'm not going to set my alarm, I'm not going to, I'm not going to get up and do anything, and I was like, well, and so I almost made it all day, but I was like you know what, if I get it with him today, we may be able to do a podcast. I'm like, but I love this and it does bring me joy and fulfillment and it's not a lot of work, and so I'm I'm a person that I get filled by being around people, and my wife is the opposite. She likes to go hiking, she likes to be out in nature, she likes to. She'll go out in the yard and sweat her little tail off and she's happy.

Speaker 1: 53:54

And I'm like that's not my style, Like I don't want to go out there and like be miserable.

Speaker 1: 53:59

But I've got to learn what fills me up and and then also understand that I can do a little bit as long as I'm like, reigning it in Like I, literally like before I I got up to start getting ready for the podcast, my little girl, she fell asleep in my arms. My wife was at the store and she was just in my arms and she fell asleep. I left her on the and it just like I got to spend time with her all morning like I didn't do anything. I didn't work out today. I didn't. We didn't go for a walk, I didn't do anything.

Speaker 1: 54:29

I just hung out with my little girl and that's awesome and I know, especially talking to you, I already know this, but it's like things that you know, but you're like it's so hard to do because the way I'm wired, like if I don't feel like I'm like doing something, I feel like I'm not doing anything, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 54:49

Yep, yeah, it's, it's, I've I've been trying to read more. I've been slacking recently, to be honest. I'll confess that I've been slacking, but I've been trying to read more. And the one of the ways that I get myself to read because I always feel like I'm not being productive when I read I do some vocal stuff. So I have this like humidifier thing that like kind of looks like a Darth Vader mask that I put on, not like a mask, but like it's like a like a handheld thing, and it like kind of shoots up some mist and it hydrates your voice, it helps out your voice.

Speaker 1: 55:20

I I don't know all the technical stuff behind it but I know a lot of singers use it, that I trust.

Speaker 2: 55:26

And so I'm doing it and I put that on and I drink some tea, some honey, peppermint and vocal throat tea, and I take care of my voice while I'm reading something. If it's a Dr John Bologna book, or if it's a book on theology or something like that, I can sit there and read it knowing that I'm being productive with my vocal health, and so that is an area where I trick myself into thinking.

Speaker 2: 55:54

I'm being productive even though I'm still doing the exact same thing I'd be doing before, but I'm tricking myself into thinking I'm being productive.

Speaker 1: 56:02

Well, I have a Bible app on my phone and it's the. It's that little brown one that says Holy Bible on it, I think.

Speaker 2: 56:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:08

Is it Life Church or something? They have it and they, you know, everything's free. Yeah, so I travel a lot for work and I go back and forth. It's about 45 minutes an hour, so I would put on reading to me, but then my brain, because of the way I'm wired, would go in this direction. All of a sudden, I'm not even paying attention to what's being read, and so in the last two weeks, maybe three, I have changed the way I consume the Bible, and so I got a brand new study Bible Hold on.

Speaker 2: 56:35

Cool.

Speaker 1: 56:35

Like look at this thing, Dude, if you got in a fight and you wanted to smack somebody in the head with that, you would win.

Speaker 1: 56:41

So this past, Sunday you can see all these pink things in here, little post-it note things. And I was just studying the book of Malachi, so the last book of the Old Testament, and it's talking about how the sacrifices that the people in the church, they have become the least and the last instead of the best and the first. And I was like dude, that is the modern church, like we. We bring our sacrifices to God and we say it's, it's, it's our very best, but our animals are blind and they're crippled and it's like stained and tarnished and we're not bringing God anything except for the, the last of you know, the last of our energy, the last of our dedication, the last of this. And it's like and so like on the study pages. It's got like all these study notes.

Speaker 1: 57:36

So what I've changed is when my wife was putting the baby to bed, I go in our room, I lay down.

Speaker 1: 57:42

We have one of those bed that reclines. When she was pregnant we got one so and like it has all the author information. And so I just I started, like you know what, I'm not going to make the Bible a checklist, I'm going to make it something I crawl through. And so I spent the first night I read this first page of who the author was, the prophet Malachi was, what the purpose was, the setting, the key verses out of here and the features, even the timeline of when the first exile of Jerusalem and then when Malachi came to the picture. And then the next page has three verses on the top, which is like that much, and then the rest is study notes. And so I've read only three verses in one night and the rest of the study stuff and I just kept reading it that like went, went along with it and from that birth it was so weird Like I, like a hunger began to like stir inside of me.

Speaker 1: 58:43

Come on, and it wasn't like just a checklist, it wasn't something being read to me, there was no notifications, and I know paper Bible. Some people are like, oh, that's old school, but there was nothing that distracted me from actually getting what I was reading and it was like I'm a pastor of a church, you know what I mean Like. But it's like we can get so complacent and familiar with God that we forget to honor him, we forget to love on him, we forget to just bless him, we forget to like actually take the time. If we, if we did our our food like we do with the Bible, if we choked it down that quick just so we can consume it, we wouldn't, we would choke constantly, like we need to take time to chew the food so that it can properly digest and be healthy for us.

Speaker 1: 59:32

And so this has been three weeks that I was like you know what? This is not working. So, even though, like, time-wise I felt like I had to do it a certain way to fit my time, instead, I found the time and I began to crawl through scripture and it. You saw those post-it notes or those little note things that were in there. I took that to the pulpit sunday and I just read from the bible instead of I have my ipad to keep my you know my notes and all my thoughts, but yeah I just flipped through the scripture and I read from the scripture and all of those was referenced scriptures from jumping to jumping to.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

Then it was from to Romans, chapter 12, talking about that our bodies should be the sacrifice. And then it goes back to Leviticus about what it is what is a sacrifice, and that what we sacrifice actually matters to God. And so I don is what is a sacrifice, and that what we sacrifice actually matters to God, and so I don't know why I went off on that. I do apologize.

Speaker 2: 1:00:28

No, that is, that is awesome. I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

But doing what you do, like even though you're ministering to people through music, like we have to stay, like, spiritually on our edge, because we can lose that by serving God and that sounds like counterintuitive, but it's not because we forget that. Like we have to stay in the word, we have to stay rooted. We have to stay grounded and like and I know this is kind of a new journey for you, but just as a an old guy to a young guy, like there's going to be times to where you're going to you're going to serve God and you're forgetting to, to just sit with God, and so I'm so glad that you're and you confessed it. You're like you know I've slacked in this, but that's okay, you know what I mean. Like yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01:13

I'm the lead pastor of a church, and three weeks ago I realized that I haven't been sitting with God. I've been serving him really well, but I haven't been sitting with him, and so that was a little sermon.

Speaker 2: 1:01:25

I love that, thank you. Thank you for that encouragement, and I think it is a huge temptation that the enemy sets before us to say you're not doing enough. Do more and do more. To where then our time with the Lord is seen as a stumbling block to the achievements that he wants us to make, and that is not how the Lord wants us to view our time with him at all and I struggle with that.

Speaker 2: 1:02:05

There's times where I'm sitting and reading and I get anxious because I'm like I need to go do something and then I realize I need to press in to what the Lord is telling me more, because I know that the enemy is trying to get in the way and the Lord is trying to do something and I need to sit and after those quiet times where I get anxious that I need to go do something, those always turn into the most sweet times with the Lord, because I actually endured and didn't fall into the temptation of I need to do something. I endured and I waited and I waited on the Lord and he provided and he, like he says, he always puts a way out of temptation like a way out, and for me a lot of times it's staying and not leaving, yeah, and doing whatever I feel like I need to do. It's staying in the moment with him.

Speaker 1: 1:03:02

Something I just thought of like he provides a way out of temptation, but I believe he also he provides ways into his presence. If we're looking for it yeah. And that's like golly. I just got chill bumps on that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

Love that. Yeah, no, that same. That is awesome that might be Sunday's sermon.

Speaker 1: 1:03:22

It's so paramount that like and I believe this with all my heart that the devil and you said it, he wants us to remain distracted?

Speaker 2: 1:03:34

Yeah, because if he can, American culture is really good at that.

Speaker 1: 1:03:35

Yes, that's one thing. Me and my wife, we both went and got new study Bibles and I like studying from the new. I actually preach from New Living Translation because it's very like plainly spoken and I really, I really enjoy it and people it lands better. If it's not landing, then what's the point? And but it's just like it's crazy. Just a new Bible and all the study stuff. I'm like you know what? I'm just going to have to read everything that's in there. I'm just going to take my time and so.

Speaker 2: 1:04:06

That is awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:04:08

Now Go ahead, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

I was just going to say that is a big reason that I do what I do is I know how easy it is to get distracted and music is a huge distraction point for people.

Speaker 1: 1:04:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:31

They will indulge in whatever music is considered good and quality or good beats, but then they listen to the lyrics and it's saying all this stuff that's debaucherous or all this stuff that is stuff that God hates, because the Bible talks about the things that he hates and the world glorifies the things that he hates. But these people listen to this music because either they don't know better or they don't think that there's good music that glorifies the Lord, and so I want to make music that glorifies God that someone can listen to and be like wow, that was good quality, wow, that was awesome. I don't feel like I have to listen to something that's going to ruin my daily pursuit of God because I've just ingested all this gunk. You know, I've actually invested in growing closer to God through listening to a song that glorifies Him and that starts with good theology and music.

Speaker 1: 1:05:26

Yeah, when we were youth pastors over in the Tyler area, it was very common for the youth kids to say, oh, I just like the beat and I'm like you may like and enjoy the beat, but you don't understand what's actually being poured into you. Because what goes into you eventually is going to come out, whether it's in your actions or your mouth or your attitude or whatever. Like. Whatever you are allowing to be poured into you eventually is going to seep out Like that's just the facts and and it's very hard to find, first of all like biblically sound like I like all kinds of music except for country. I don't like country at all and we can go into a whole reason for that, but I think it's very hypocritical music.

Speaker 1: 1:06:10

They talk about god while drinking beer on the back road and everything else, and I'm just like to me. That just makes me want to punch them. I'm not a fan and their music lyrics are so weak like I can freestyle with a guitar in my hand and sound better than they do, and so it's just like I have no respect for the genre at all.

Speaker 1: 1:06:29

No shade on anybody else, but I'm just like dude. This gets on my nerves. But I like rap, I like rock and when I would write music I always wrote like more acoustic style stuff and the one of the rappers a Christian rapper, and then Lauren Daigle as well like they would not. They would not say what was biblically sin and what wasn't. They were like well, I really don't know. And I'm like what do you mean? You don't know. Like, if you're one of the main faces in a genre of music and you're saying you're a Christian, you should know the basic answers of what is sin and what is not. That seems kind of a no brainer to me, but apparently it's foreign to them. And so it's very, very important to me that if, if somebody's and I'm not saying they're a preacher, I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to claim that but if you're going to proclaim Jesus on a stage, you should be ready.

Speaker 1: 1:07:24

You should be ready for the answer for the hope that is within you, and the hope comes from conviction of sin. Yeah, not a, not a, an addition, like we're not adding Jesus to the things we do. We are picking up our cross and we're leaving everything behind. Matter of fact, in Luke chapter I read it Sunday Luke chapter or something it was talking about the division that Christ actually brings and he was talking. He was like dude, I did not come to unite, I came to set the world on fire. For some reason, I've never read this before. Hold on, we're on a podcast. I'm going to read this right, unless you got to go.

Speaker 1: 1:07:58

But, just give me a couple seconds. So this is like I don't know how. I've never read this before, but it was. It's Luke chapter. Luke, chapter 12, verse 49. It says I have come to set the world on fire and I wish it was already burning. I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me and I'm under a heavy burden until it is accomplished. Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other. From now on, families will be split apart three in favor of me or two against, two in favor, three against father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter, daughter against mother and it goes on.

Speaker 1: 1:08:35

But I'm like we yeah, we get so caught up and we hyper grace and super unity and all this stuff. But like when you put Christ in the center of things, what is right and what is just and what is truth, there is contrast, extreme contrast against lies and division. And what the enemy is trying to do, like it becomes more evident. There should be a greater distance. What the enemy is trying to do, like it becomes more evident. There should be a greater distance. Like I should leave. I should want. The closer I get to God, the more filthy and dirty I realize I am. I can't remember. Do you remember the prophet where God put the coal on his lips and it purifies?

Speaker 1: 1:09:13

lips, yeah, and he said, he said I am undone Like I how filthy am I, yes Like this should be the cry of the church, that that wants to see people saved. Like this is true, authentic worship to God. Like how filthy am I, how unclean am I. Woe is me. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:38

Yeah, when you have a low view of God, you have a high view of yourself. Yes, that is what happens. When you think God is on your level, you've equated yourself to God. So if you think that, oh, I can live a life that indulges my flesh and then go to church on Sunday and play this double-faced role, I'm okay. I prayed the prayer, I'm okay.

Speaker 1: 1:10:05

No.

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

God clearly states that your life is never the same after that and you can't enjoy those things. Because you've filled yourself with Christ, you can't enjoy that. You'll see that it's just a momentary pleasure and that's not everlasting. And when you put God on your level, then all of a sudden it's not that important.

Speaker 1: 1:10:34

Yeah, we've made ourselves into our own gods. We're building the kingdom of man instead of the kingdom of God. Like I, I love sinners Like yeah. I'm a filthy wretch, but it irritates me when people use the pride month or whatever and they put the little TikTok things and they feel like, well, if it's a true church, it wouldn't be hateful and say that I couldn't live my life and my truth. I'm like bro, you're zooming in, zoom out.

Speaker 1: 1:11:07

All sexual immorality separates us from God. It doesn't matter what your preference is, all of it separates us. Like you can't add God to your preference, like that's not how it works.

Speaker 2: 1:11:23

Yeah, our, our lives are transformed by the truth of the gospel. And for us to rewrite what the gospel says to fit our own narrative or a political party's narrative is not okay and people that are responsible for this is the church.

Speaker 1: 1:11:41

If they, if they would have their standards, if we would have our standards according to the scripture, instead of preference or appeasing people and affirming things like.

Speaker 2: 1:11:51

Yeah, and I think this goes back to biblical literacy. So one of the core values of our church is biblical community, biblical prayer and biblical literacy.

Speaker 1: 1:12:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:04

And understanding what the scripture says, and exactly what you said. If people read the scriptures and they see the divisive nature of the gospel, that is why Jesus was crucified. Not because he was some good man, it is because he was divisive. He was calling himself the son of God. He was saying revolutionary things. The revolutionary language that got him killed was I am the son of God. I am Literally, he says I am.

Speaker 1: 1:12:30

It was the church that did it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:32

Yes, and that is why, if you look at history and you look at Peter who died, was he doing good things? Yes, but that's not why he was killed. It's because he was killed because he was so passionate about the gospel that he wouldn't hold back the truth. And when he did hold back the truth, we hear that Paul called him out on it and he repented and he changed. And so there is this absolute truth that as soon as churches have a low view of the Bible and they start saying stuff about what they think instead of what the Bible says, or they don't read through the Bible all the way and they get the whole picture of narrative of the gospel of the Bible throughout, from Genesis to Revelation, you will get churches that are soft on issues and care and fear people more than God.

Speaker 1: 1:13:28

You know I say it like I. My people mess with me all the time. They say like it. So I don't. I don't hold back when I preach. Like I'm not, I'm not there to make fans. I don't. If the word says it, that's what we believe Like, that's it Like. We don't add our own little thing to it. We don't like. And they'll talk like man. I should have brought my steel toes this morning on my boots. I'm like. Well, man, if you feel conviction, make sure you come to the altar. We'll pray you through.

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

Like I'm a pastor, I'm here to help you, bro, I mean then that's the thing.

Speaker 1: 1:14:00

Like people want to come to church, they want to consume, they want to be a part of the church culture, especially here in East Texas. Like the Bible Belt, like everybody thinks. They're like a Christian and I'm like you don't have the first clue. So that reminds me I just got these things that are coming in a couple of days for our church. They're like it's a tool for people to minister or to hand out to invite people to church. On the front it has like biblical teachings, powerful worship, a spirit led. Then it has the address, the logo, things like that. And then on the back this one guy and his wife designed it, but I changed it up like they had the the.

Speaker 1: 1:14:38

It's not biblical, but sometimes you just let people do things. They just showed up with them. But like a sinner's prayer, like there's no sinner's prayer, oh yeah, there's not. Yeah, so I changed it. What I did is I said how to be saved and I gave like scripture and like five points of what a life looks like that is a safe person. Like pick up your cross, confess that Jesus Christ is the one true son of God, ask him to forgive you of your sins. Like the actual lifestyle and plan of what it means to be saved like churches need to stop saying, oh, lift your hand. And you know, and I understand you don't want to stand out or whatever, but like there's, the life is going to hit them in the face when they leave the door or go out the door yeah, like we need to prepare them.

Speaker 2: 1:15:20

He's going to go after them yes, yes, yeah, yes.

Speaker 1: 1:15:23

So yeah, I I think I think children of god need to be more bold. Yeah, and it's it's exciting to me to be on the consumer side to have somebody who's like scripture comes first, and there is there is countless scriptures for different things that we go through. Yeah, so I mean you're gonna be writing songs forever the sun right yeah. So now you said oh no, go ahead, go ahead no, no, after you I was gonna say so where you mentioned tiktok.

Speaker 1: 1:15:59

are you on youtube? I want to kind of make sure everybody can can find you now. Yeah, I think your TikTok says official or real Tommy Williams Real real, real. That's what it is. Real. Okay, so what's it on YouTube? Is it the same?

Speaker 2: 1:16:14

I believe it's just it might I might've. I'm in the process of changing all that to be real Tommy Williams, so it might be real Tommy Williams or Tommy Williams music.

Speaker 1: 1:16:23

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:16:24

You'll probably find it under Tommy Williams music. I will say there I've come into some problems on the distribution side where another artists videos are on my YouTube and how'd that happen? It's basically I was releasing videos under Vivio Vimeo through my distribution platform and what I had to claim the YouTube channel. But what came with the YouTube channel that was the Vivo YouTube channel was all the other songs that another Tommy Williams had released.

Speaker 1: 1:16:59

Did you let them know? There's only one. Some of them.

Speaker 2: 1:17:02

What real, tommy Williams.

Speaker 1: 1:17:05

No, but they. Is it bad music? It's very unfortunate.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

Some of them were really inappropriate, which was I praise the Lord, I got them off of my Amazon. I had people from my church be like oh man, we Alexa'd Tommy Williams music and they came up, come and see. But then there's this other stuff that's very explicit talking about very inappropriate things. I'm like I don't want someone searching up Tommy. Williams to hear a song that is AI-generated, talking about very inappropriate things.

Speaker 1: 1:17:38

And Tom's going to be like well, this was before I met Jesus. You're just going to have to look through with grace.

Speaker 2: 1:17:43

It's a part of my testimony. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:17:47

Yeah, just listen, it gets better.

Speaker 2: 1:17:50

You'll see as.

Speaker 1: 1:17:51

I grow, how closer I got to grace.

Speaker 2: 1:17:54

You'll see the transformation process you know.

Speaker 1: 1:17:57

Yeah, yeah, for sure, that is awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:18:00

So don't look at those videos.

Speaker 1: 1:18:03

What is it on Instagram? What's the title?

Speaker 2: 1:18:06

Real Tommy Williams.

Speaker 1: 1:18:07

Real Tommy Williams Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:18:09

So Instagram.

Speaker 1: 1:18:10

TikTok. Do you want them to go to YouTube? Spotify.

Speaker 2: 1:18:14

Yeah, Spotify and Apple Music would be the best place to look for it right now. I'm trying to get that resolved. I have to go through my distributor're trying. I'm trying to get that resolved. I have to go through my distributor in person and fortunately, but we're trying to get that resolved. So don't worry, it's those videos will be removed, but it's very unfortunate.

Speaker 1: 1:18:31

It's become famous. However, however God wants it to happen, you'll become famous, right. He's using this to subvert that he can use a crooked stick to draw straight lines. Amen, somebody, come on, come on.

Speaker 2: 1:18:43

That's so good, yeah, but I'll get all those links.

Speaker 1: 1:18:47

I'll get all those links too, and I'll try to put them on all my Spotify and everywhere that podcasts come out. I'll make sure that that's on there too. That way you can get all the property.

Speaker 2: 1:18:56

And you said Amazon they can-. Amazon, spotify and Apple Music.

Speaker 1: 1:19:01

Okay, cool. Now here's something that probably you don't get asked a lot, so I want to ask you yeah, please, as a musical artist, as a Christian, those who want to be your fans and they go and find you, what can we, the fans, pray for you about?

Speaker 2: 1:19:21

Oh man, thank you so much for asking this man. I would love prayer on staying strong to the convictions of the gospel Because, as you know, when you get in a position where you've got a record label saying it is this way, or the highway, I want to be able to say I choose the highway because I honor the Lord, or and hopefully I won't be a part of a record label where that is choice but it's always a possibility.

Speaker 1: 1:19:57

It's always a possibility.

Speaker 2: 1:19:58

Someone, someone is going to tell me at some point you need to forsake your values for the sake of money, for the sake of fame, for the sake of what you desire. And I want to have the conviction in my life, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit, to choose God over myself. And I like to say I want the conviction of sin to turn into conviction of living Like. I want my convictions to be strong. That's one area. Then two, I think, just like the with any indie artist, funding is probably always the hardest part. Music is expensive, which is ironic because it's not a very lucrative business, unless if you're really good at it and you're getting a lot of people who are supporting.

Speaker 2: 1:20:49

It is always just a big prayer. It's like, alright, lord, I want to see how you're going to be providing for this and I want to see how you're going to be. And he has, and it's been so cool. I'll pray some days. Lord, I need you to provide for this, and then that day I get this boom here, this is the opportunity. Or I see, okay, he's pushed this further down the line and I'll get to see how he provides for it then, and so I'm seeing him provide. But it would be amazing to just continue to see that, because I want to give high quality music so that people can listen to it and not feel like it's just some dude who on the radio and feel like it's quality, while still, like I said, I'm doing it all myself. I am like the most indie artist, I guess you know, like that's the classic indie thing, and so pray for the opportunities.

Speaker 1: 1:21:56

So are you asking for prayer for band members as well?

Speaker 2: 1:22:01

What are you going to do if you start traveling? People will be in my corner.

Speaker 1: 1:22:04

You could be like the dude with the drum thing on his back and the cymbals is one foot and the guitar is up here and he's got a harmonica.

Speaker 2: 1:22:13

Yes, that's basically what I do in the studio. Yes, you're looking at a piece of the studio right now.

Speaker 1: 1:22:20

You mentioned funds. Is there a link or a cash app or whatever, that people can actually donate to the ministry?

Speaker 2: 1:22:28

Yeah, so Patreon would be the I think is the best way, because then I'm able to still interact with the people who are giving and then also I can be able to give something back in return.

Speaker 2: 1:22:40

I'm working on a devotional for come and see, so that you can which is a part of each story is as a biblical story in the verses, and I and I touch on those and so I'm working on content for there. Then I just post random, just little updates so people know what's going on and you can be in the better in the know with my patreon awesome, that'd be awesome, and so I'll get that link too.

Speaker 1: 1:23:02

I'm gonna have like 50 links in the know with my Patreon Awesome, that'd be awesome, and so I'll get that link too. I'm going to have like 50 links in the bottom where you can find this dude wherever you go. Come on.

Speaker 2: 1:23:07

That'd be awesome. Thank you so much for asking that.

Speaker 1: 1:23:11

Yeah, do you have any closing thoughts or anything? Before we close it out, anything you'd like to? Say to anybody that's new to you in the music.

Speaker 2: 1:23:20

Yeah, I would say, if you're listening to my music, I hope that the Lord is speaking to you in whatever place you're in.

Speaker 2: 1:23:29

You might be in a place of suffering, you might be in a place of hurting, you might be in a place of joy, you might be experiencing the best season of your life, but, as we all know, you're either exiting a trial, you're entering a trial, or you're about to head into a trial, and so what my hope is is that Jesus will speak to you and show you that he's with you through my songs, but then also that you can enjoy my songs and, whatever season you're in, kind of get to experience his presence in that way.

Speaker 2: 1:23:59

But I hope that I get to be a part of your story, in whatever way it is, for the sake of the gospel, because of the Lord. But also realize it's the Lord reaching out to you, not Tommy Williams. It is the Lord reaching out to you to show you that he cares for you, he loves you, and His hope, his plans for you are for your good and for his glory, and that might mean hard times, but that also means that you're going to come out of the other side, closer to him. So keep clinging to Jesus, because that is where your strength comes from not yourself, but from Jesus.

Speaker 1: 1:24:37

Amen to that. Y'all just got another sermon. That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:24:43

I'll be at your church next.

Speaker 1: 1:24:44

Sunday. There you go, man, Come on bring it. Well, thank you, Tommy, so much for coming on. All the links will be, down below that you can click whether you want to go to his Patreon and get extra content that way, where you can actually personally interact with him. Find him on his Instagram, his YouTube channel and Spotify. Did I ask you if you have a website or no?

Speaker 2: 1:25:06

I do have a website. It's Tommy Williams Music, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:25:09

Tommy Williams.

Speaker 2: 1:25:10

Music. Some merch on there as well.

Speaker 1: 1:25:11

Okay, awesome, and then also check him out on TikTok. That's how I found him. So if you're scrolling TikTok and you want to go through his little videos, go check him out. And once again, thank you so much for coming on and God bless you and God bless your ministry.

Speaker 2: 1:25:28

Thank you, you too.