Safety Dance by Men Without Hats

 "The Safety Dance" is a song by the Canadian new wave/synth-pop band Men Without Hats, released in 1982. It hit #3 on the U.S. charts the following year. The song was written by lead singer Ivan Doroschuk after he had been kicked out of a club in Ottowa for “pogo dancing,” a bouncy dance that was a precursor to mosh dancing. Why do people have such a problem with dancing? And why did “The Hats” decide to set their music video in old-timey England around a maypole? We may never know, but we’ll get as far to the bottom of it as we can in this episode. 

Transcript

Safety Dance by Men Without Hats
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[00:00:00] Elizabeth: 

Hi, Margaret. 

[00:00:22] Margaret: How are you doing? 

[00:00:22] Elizabeth: I'm doing okay. I'm going to say, although my son told me yesterday, I seem depressed and tired.

[00:00:30] Margaret: Thanks. 

[00:00:31] Elizabeth: Yeah, it was more, it was solicited. Cause I said a friend of mine seemed like I said, remarked that I seemed down and I asked my family if I did. And my son said yeah, now that you mentioned it, so that'll teach me. 

[00:00:47] Margaret: Did he actually say now that you mention it? 

[00:00:51] Elizabeth: Yes. Wow. Now that you mentioned it, you seem depressed and tired that's 

[00:00:56] Margaret: what'd you say to that?

[00:00:58] Elizabeth: I said, oh, okay. I'm. I maybe I am. I don't know. Thank you for telling me. 

[00:01:06] Margaret: As the days are shorter, the nights are longer. Everybody gets a little blue, I think.

[00:01:11] Elizabeth: . I think that's right. And of course like the older you get the faster those cycles seem. And so that doesn't exactly help. 

And it's just kind of like I'm melancholy. I don't know. I think people feel wistful this time of year and they just 

they get nostalgic and Hondo P as the kids say. And also I will add here in Buffalo, after the time change, we don't yet have snow and snow at least provides a glare. But with no snow, it's just dark. And it's it's dark at four. And it's like 40 degrees.

So there's not even any like strong feelings you can have about whether, how cozy it is to watch the snow fall or whatnot. Right. There's just, it's just dark and nothing. Yeah. It brings to mind that song by guns and roses, November rain. Which is just a very much does, which I got made fun of for singing.

Oh, did you sing that around your son? Yes, but I hear it. And it was more, you sounded

maybe a little bit, but that mockery was from my spouse, because I sounded like. Katherine Hepburn. My Axl rose imitation sounds like Katherine Hepburn, but much more specifically. It sounds like Martin Short's impression of Katherine Hepburn from Saturday night live. Do you remember that? I sure do you go?

And I pour myself a bowl of bran. That was like the line that when I was however old, 13, 14, man, I lived for it. 

[00:02:51] Margaret: God, he's so funny. Listen. So have you watched only murders in the building? Heck yes. I feel like that TV show was a hundred percent written and produced to delight me.

[00:03:03] audio_only: Hundo P. 

I know that that's not the case.

I'm sure that people all over the world like it, but I am, as you know, a big Steve Martin fan. You know, too, you are as well. My God, do I have a heart beating in my chest? He's on my top five lists. Like my laminated friends style, top five lists. He's such a Renaissance, man. I just think he's fantastic at everything he does anyway 

well, hopefully you'll be able to lift your spirits with some eggnog or something.

[00:03:36] Elizabeth: I do like eggnog. I like mint and chocolate. I like the advent of that flavor combination in our world too. In fact, the trader Joe's treats holiday treats are being rolled out and I got some mint chocolate cookies. Oh yeah. Hmm. Uh, just at the store today, I bought like a limited edition bag of Starbucks, peppermint mocha coffee, like CRA ground coffee, beans, not like a mix with some hot cocoa or something in it.

Very excited to try it. Cause I'm going to love the mint and the peppermint and chocolate or coffee flavors. Listen, wouldn't be a podcast without our mentioning Starbucks. And I'm excited this year to try my first peppermint mocha. You've never had one. No. Have we ever discussed this before on this exact date?

On this exact podcast? 365 days ago. I'm very pleased because I got my daughter hooked on them and I don't know why it matters to me so much that my kids like coffee. Like I probably should be pushing them away from it, but. It's like a family moment that we have where we drink coffee. Like my grandmother passed it down to my mother and my mother passed it to me.

And now I want to bequeath the love of coffee to my children. it's like a good gateway, cause it's mostly hot chocolate. I was going to say, it's hardly coffee per se. Right. It's got a little caffeine, a little shot of coffee she, I got her started on the peppermint mocha is in a hot cocoa basically.

And she told me recently that she's been drinking coffee at work because she's she works in a restaurant and when it's like a long slog on a Saturday night she makes some coffee and drinks it. And I was like, Hmm, really? That's quite a path from peppermint mocha to light. Coffee at your restaurant.

They, if they're not no restaurant. Yeah. At night. Yep. She makes it for all the guys who work in the kitchen, she makes them for herself and she passes out the little cups and they all have a coffee party back there. Yeah. Caffeine is a potent and seductive drug. It really adds a richness to the fabric of my life.

So I'm grateful for it in all its forms. You know, I like a cup of tea too. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Totally. And just got some PG tips for the first time. It's very delicious. My favorite brand tea. That's my NCY preferred cup. 

[00:06:07] Margaret: Yeah. 

[00:06:07] Elizabeth: I love it. I'd never tried it before. It's a fantastic blend. In fact, one of my other favorite drinks at Starbucks is the London fog latte.

Can I just make a quick plug? Our local Starbucks employees are rallying to unionize and be the first Starbucks employees in the United States to unionize. And at the one near your house or the Buffalo area, Starbucks, Buffalo area, there's like three stores total.

I do not believe the one near my house is included. And in fact, I Chitty chat with a neighbor who works at it. She does not support it, but mystifying to me why people don't support. Yeah. Yeah. But whatever. So the other ones and there, and it's just so stupidly obvious Starbucks, corporate has been sending big wigs here to like, as if like it's just part of their standard operating procedure, but it's so obvious.

It's meant to like intimidate people. And we always do market visits to Buffalo in November. All of that. That's like where we devote our resources. Yeah. Anyway, so go Starbucks union now. Yeah. It's it is funny too, that they're the ones leading it because there's probably worse places to work.

Did you see the story about the Wendy's employees who who all walked out? Like all 14 of them walked out? No air gosh, somewhere out west, uh, Arizona or Colorado or something, I'm probably getting that wrong. it is clearly like a franchise owned Wendy's most Wendy's restaurants are franchise owned this guy like his general manager like he didn't have a general manager at the store, like she quit or was fired or something.

And so he was sort of running the show single-handedly for six weeks or something and working these crazy hours. Cause he was like the only assistant manager there, an opening, the store, closing the store, working seven days a week just not getting any time off at all was exhausted And he was like, I need help somebody. He was telling his bosses, somebody got to help. I can't keep doing this. And he just didn't get any help. So one day he was like, guys, I'm quitting, I'm done, I'm leaving. And they were all like, we're coming with you. And so they all quit. Yeah.

So that's, I guess the other side of the coin, if you don't want to unionize, you can quit. However, in one scenario you have a job with some guarantees and then the other scenario you don't, so maybe more power and banding together. But John Oliver just did an episode on union busting that I want to watch it's in my queue.

Yeah. Starbucks, I think is gotten real good at it. And I think it was one of the leaders, like in the nineties, especially in having really attractive, like employing. incentives and benefits. Yeah. In fact, I even worked at a Starbucks. I was a barista for a few months in Chicago. Yeah. there was some very pleasant aspects of that job.

But , someone explained to me or I read or something that like, part of the reason for the benefits was to prevent unionization and whole foods was similar. Similarly, had really great benefits for people. I worked at a whole foods for a bit in the nineties, also come to think of it.

So maybe that's why I was aware of those corporations. what did you do with whole foods? There was a whole foods run restaurant and I waited tables there. But I also handed out samples in the grocery store that was a real eye opening situation for good old me because people were real. That was like my first introduction to like real strict, like dietary management for lots of different reasons that we're not just like playing Al I was familiar with just plain allergies.

And but people like I would be sampling they called it a granita, which was basically like a slushy, but since it was whole foods, they had to call it granita and people would be like, is there. Like GMO rice and that they would be asking like every little, even in the nineties.

Yes. Cause it was a real rich area in a big city, you know? So it was like at the leading edge of that kind of got it. And I served a sample granita to James YHA of the smashing pumpkins. Oh, right. I know I can see his face when you say his name. And I also, and I think other celebrities too, that's the one I remember.

One woman came and she was dressed. She was like a very tall and very large woman. And she was dressed dramatically to my eye in all white, like draped in white, like robes and scarves and shawls and had sort of like a white turbine type of thing on. And no, it was, I know it was straight, it was striking and I felt like calling attention to itself.

And so I, but I, once again was like kind of a, we'll call it naif, N-A-I-F you know, and maybe like, UN schooled in the ways of the city sophistication. And I said something about like, oh, I got today was like all white day or some, you know, I made like some joke and she looked at me and very meanly said, I dress religiously.

Like it was, um, yeah, she was dressed because of her religion. And I felt really like stupid, but I also was like looking for the Groucho Marx joke and there too, like yeah, a lady I dressed religiously chip like as if religion requires that sort of dressing, do you think I have no idea? I was, I was.

You said, uh, is that a thing still? I don't know. I don't know if the Moonies anymore. I don't know if they are, maybe she was part of that. Um, the cult from they didn't dress unusually though. The one that's wild, wild kingdom or what? Wild. Wild. Oh yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah. Country wild, wild country.

[00:12:42] Margaret: I, I thought you were going to say it was someone famous and it was reminding me of a time. I was in a mall in Boston and I saw Mary from Peter Paul and Mary, because she is very striking. I would not know what her face looked. She's tall. Oh, but she's quite tall. Isn't she? Yeah, she's tall. Very blonde, straight blunt, cut hair and bangs.

And she was wearing like a full length fur coat. We're real big, like moon boots made out of furry stuff too. And you could not met their parents. Yeah, my God. Yes. I was like, that woman is someone and then I realized, oh, it's Mary from Peter Paul and Mary, because you actually like recognize her face.

Yeah. My parents were big. Peter Paul and Mary fans were yeah, yeah. Watched a lot of them on PBS when I was young there were face. Yeah. 

I ha I just want to contribute one more thing to the celebrity spotting thing. And that is at the at another restaurant I worked at in Chicago. I, some friend of mine, it was like a kind of a dead time, like three or three 30 or something.

And a friend of mine was waiting on like 50 ish, maybe 55 year old guy. Handsome, like kind of hippie, long hair, tight jeans, a chambray shirt cheekbones. And I was like, God, and he kind of sauntered, maybe you would say, or, or strutted. And I said to my friend, who is this guy, think he is Robert plant. And she goes, I think that's exactly who he thinks he is, because I think that is who it is.

And we all freaked out and like looked at him from a few different angles and determined. In fact it was Robert plant. And then we all just like, were we, that restaurant got a lot of celebrities in. And so we were used to seeing David Schwimmer and Jerry Springer and Oprah's Steadman came never Oprah herself, but Chicago area, right.

and even sometimes like performers who were playing a different venues there, but like Robert plant was, that's huge, I think as big a deal as you hunter percent. So reclusive, really. So it's not like you see him on TMZ, walking down into the Ralph's and Beverly Hills or whatever, like and I've got to say he still had it then I'm used to the saunter.

Well, and the jeans, you know it's not like he doesn't know what people like to look. Excellent use of the double negative there. Did I ever tell you about the time I saw I ate lunch at a little local Italian chain here in Columbus, and I saw, uh, Eric Clapton at the table next to me. What in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio, actual Eric Clapton, actual air Clapton.

I was looking at him. I was at lunch with a friend and I was like staring over her shoulder at this man. And I was like, how do I know that? How do I know him? And there's that thing you get of? Like, I know, I don't know him know him. He is a person who is famous. I just recognize him. Who is he? But it was so out of.

The place he was there. And then I hit me and I was like, holy shit, it's Eric Clapton. And she was like, I immediately turned around and I was like, yeah, it's like a racist piece of shit though. As it turns out,

it's recently come to our attention. Yeah. What the heck was he doing? There are clues. He's still George Harrison's wife. Oh, it in a song like we know anyway, he married a. , his current wife is from Columbus. She went to my daughter's high school.

Actually. She was a makeup artist and they met and married and have kids. And so they have a house here in Columbus, Ohio in Columbus? Yes. Yes. . This is a good cocktail party talk. I'd love the, yeah.

What famous people have you seen when you work in a restaurant? Big city? You get a lot of stories like that big time. Yes. Robert plant came in a few more times that week. So like the third or fourth time he came in, we were like, Jesus is a Robert plant again, like, like it was getting boring to see, get a life plan. Exactly. And we wanted to joke with him about pretending he was Robert Palmer. We thought that would be funny. Here's your rice bowl, Mr. Palmer. Exactly big fan feel like addicted to love, you know, make some jokes like that.

No one had the guts to do actually do it. No 

did you have any notes or you want me to get into the content for today? I'd like to hear about the song.



[00:17:51] Margaret: , we have a good one today. I request this one's by request. Is it. Yes, Benji at ghost label who edits our show. This is a great request. It's such a good one. I hadn't thought about this song in a long time, so I was glad to be able to dig into it. It is the safety dance by men without hats requested by Benji.

Do you know much about this song or when you hear it? What do you what's in your mind's eye 

[00:18:21] Elizabeth: Dancing. Yes. Kind of dancing safety and dancing. is there a spelling out the letters of safety with the body? Is that a thing? Yes, they spell that the letter S the safety dance. You make an ass with your left arm over your head, curled in a sort of a C shape and then your right arm pointing the opposite direction, held beneath your abdomen.

And then they do spell it out. You spell out a with your bow. Oh, you're getting it. Uh, you know, you got a little mental overlap there with YMCA just the S got it. Just the us, because that's the safest letter to, it's hard to farm, but they do spell it out in the song. They say S a F E T Y. Yeah. So that's my association and also I like it.

[00:19:23] Margaret: it's a really good catchy song. It's kind of a touchstone for generation X, I think mostly because it was played so much on MTV. We were lucky enough to have MTV sod all the time. let me tell you a little bit about it. So it's by men without hats, which is a new wave synth-pop band from Canada.

The song was released in 1982 and it was written by the lead singer. Whose name is Ivan Deroshek and men without hats started in the late seventies and Montreal as a cramps cover band. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it is. And then in like the early eighties, they changed over to sort of be like techno pop and then included a bunch of other people, including his two brothers stuff.

And Colin. And that's when they got into new wave and that's when he wrote a safety dance. He was inspired to write it because he had gone to, he was, you know, going to clubs, punk clubs, new wave clubs, dancing, and he had gotten kicked out of a club in Ottawa for Pogo dancing to the direct, vertical up and down.

Yes, it is the, I didn't even really know it was called this, although we certainly did a lot of this dancing in our youth. Um, you just jump up and down either remaining on the spot or moving around and it looks like you're on a Pogo stick. Um, you kind of keep your torso stuff. Like you put your arms down at your sides and you just kind of bounce back and forth, like close together.

And it's 

sort of like 

[00:21:02] Margaret: precursor to. Mosh pit or slam dancing or something like that. Cause sometimes in poker dancing, you bounce into each other. the bouncer was telling him to stop, was telling the guys to stop doing this dancing. because it's not safe or whatever safety dance, and it was really.

This anti-establishment song, like you can't tell us what to do. We can dance if we want to. The interesting thing to me is, when you're young and you have all those feelings of like, you can't tell me what to do, Mr. And then you grow up and you're like, things can really get out of hand.

Let's just take a minute and come back down here. I went to a mother, son dance at my son's high school, like mother, boy. Arrested development. Did you see when they knocked to motherboard? Okay, well, that's another conversation, but maybe it's very similar. So it was like all the boys took their moms to this dance and it was called mom prom.

And it was usually like the weekend, like the weekend of prom, the idea is like, here's how you behave. Like a nice young man at a dance and your mother, it was low mg, but it was fun because you got to dance with your son and his friends and they were goofy and fun. And there was always a big conga line and it was, and 

um, the boys were so they'd play like a song for the moms, like for example, safety dance or something.

[00:22:28] Margaret: And the moms said, I'll get out there and boogie and show their sons, their moves or whatever. And then they'd play like a current song. And the moms would naturally there'd be this attrition, they'd leave the dance floor and the boys, because they knew what the hell the song was. They'd keep dancing.

And then you'd see like just craziness began to develop and they would start pogoing pushing into each other and pushing around and just going insane. And it would take like 30 seconds. And then the principal. This tall dude would come out and go, all right. All right. Let's you, he had like a secret signal with the guy who would then like cut the music and put on a song that mom would like bring the moms back out.

But you could see that the energy just shift in these boys to start to kind of go nuts. Like when they're like, when they have a space to themselves, like 17 year old males will yeah. Just amplify each other and they just start bouncing up and down as a group, like as a sea of boys.

And then, then there would be people like put on hands and crowd surfing. It just got out of hand so quickly and you stand there and watch like, oh my God, the crowd dynamics here are kind of insane. Well, all your mothers are standing here. Yeah. Right. But it took the principal being like, oh, all right. All right.

Let's just all calm down. Right. Like the bouncer in this song from who would like to hear various explanations for that phenomenon, you know, like anthropological, oh, there must be right. It's developmental a bit of crowd mentality, but also like a little bit of showing off for each other and just like kind of natural implication escalation.

Yes. Oh my God. The escalation was like instantaneous, just nuts. But when you're the person doing the dancing, the last thing you want is for someone to tell you to stop dancing because yeah. I'm just dancing. Yeah. Meanwhile, some may get their head cracked open. Yeah, for real. So that's what the song is about.

Plenty of people try to interpret the lyrics in the eighties and nineties before the internet. And you wondered what songs were about in the nineties. People thought it was about safe sex. Um, you know, the rise of each might've thought that some people thought it was an anti-nuclear protest song because there's a little bit of nuclear imagery at the very end of the video.

Aha. And he didn't really refute that. Ivan Doroschuck said it's not just like just being 

anti-nuclear 

[00:25:07] Margaret: nuclear. It was also a question of being anti-establishment, but essentially like it's a protest song. 

It did really well. It was, you know, like a top 20 hit in 14 different countries or something like that. It got nominated for Juno awards in Canada, which is a big deal. It was released in March in the us, but it didn't actually chart for a few months. And it was obviously helped along bite by MTV was really big in England and South Africa and Australia, let's take a listen real quick.







[00:25:51] Margaret: Okay. And then, so if you want to leave your friends behind, cause if friends don't dance and if they don't dance, they know, oh, did you listen to the actual recording? No, I wanted to hear you perform it. Yeah. Do have a mental image of the video. Have you seen the video? No. Oh my gosh.

The video is so weird and great. When I explain it to you, it's going to come back. I promise you. The video was directed by this guy named Tim Polk, who also directed a bunch of videos for the cure and other bands. 'Sort of based in British folk revival style. So it kind of looks like the pied Piper. So the video starts late revival. Like I'm not Peter Paul and Mary folk or no, no, no, but like British, like, uh, like Ren Faire

unfair. Yeah. That's what I'm picturing. Yeah. Wicker man. Yes, it is all the things. Um, it's got Morris dancers. It's got Mummers. It's got punch in Judy. It's got a May pole it's got all the do remember this. He's like walking through this flowing field of barley and he sees a little town in the distance and he has a little person with him, a dwarf.

They were called when this video came out and there he's dressed as a jester and Ivan, Doroschuck is dressing. You know, just an old timey British dude with the puffy shirt and the brave, sir, Robin like brave or Robin, maybe precisely. Yes. And a vest. And they're walking through these flowing fields of, I think barley and they walk into this town and they meet a young maid and she sort of follows along with them.

And then there's all these people dancing. They're just following around in the town and the children are going around the maypole and there's people dancing and all of this stuff. And it was filmed in Wiltshire England near oh my God. I'm blanking on the name of Uh, Kmart? No, uh, the Beatles, um it doesn't matter, but I feel like I need to look it up now it's in the Cotswolds, uh, the Cotswolds, which it's where they filmed Bridget Jones, his little hometown.

Do you remember when Bridget Jones goes to the Turkey Curry buffet at her mother's house? No. Okay. It's very picturesque, a little market town, and I think I've visited the Cotswolds. And I think I do remember that about it. You and I went to bath and that's what I'm thinking. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I spent a semester in Beth also.

Yeah. There you go. Yes. Picture that, that kind of little town got, I blur all dancing around and there are Morris dancers in this video. Do you know what a Morris dancing. Please tell me it's an English folk dance and it's based on rhythmic stepping and the execution of choreography by a group of dancers.

And they usually wear these little pads on their shins that have bells on them. So when they dance around they like clap or slap their legs or they have like swords or handkerchiefs and I was picturing this, but you're describing it vividly more vividly than I could have. And there's tons of that.

There's tons of different kinds of moral stances in Wales. It's clogging. And you may remember from the sausage company I used to work at, we had a festival, um, a big sausage festival on a farm every year and there, and it was based in this part of Ohio, where there were a lot of Welsh immigrants, uh, been there for a couple of decades.

And there would be a big clogging exhibition every year because all the Welsh people, this is like their national dance and that's essentially Morris dancing. Yeah. I see. Interesting. It's all the same kind of, um, the same kind of thing. Or if you picture German dancing, like the scene in European vacation, where Chevy chase puts on the little dirndl or whatever, and they're slapping their hips and their feet, and it's all this kind of dancing 

uh, 

[00:30:20] Margaret: Fun fact, a Morris team is called a jingle.

So cute. That is cute. 

Yeah 

Interestingly, there are a couple notable people in the video. The actor, the little person actor is an actor by the name of Mike Edmonds he's dressed as adjuster, but he's wearing a t-shirt that has the album cover that the song is from and he has been in tons of movies, uh, flash Gordon, the dark crystal.

He played Stretch in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.. Huh? He was in the Terry Gilliam film time bandits, which is like, I read that and I was like, oh, I haven't watched it in forever. I need to watch that he's in return of the Jedi. He plays an Ewok. Uh, huh. He also operated Jabba the Hut's tail. So I'm going to do it, I guess.

And what do actors who are in all those kinds of fantasy movies? When you move into the two thousands, what do they star in Lord of the rings? Harry Potter and Harry Potter. Harry Potter played a goblin into Harry Potter movies. Yeah. Nice. So what a career Mike admin system. Uh, and right, the young blonde haired woman by the name of Jenny I love that she has no speaking lines.

She does not sing on the track, but in the video she says the little part he says we can do. And then she goes "and sing!", yes, I know that. So I love that they gave her character a name. Jenny isn't good eighties name. Totally. I think we know we between us have at least five friends named Jenny dozens.

And her name is Louise Court she's a journalist and she was later editor in chief of Cosmopolitan UK. These people went on to do amazing things, right. It was like a little incubator of talent and opportunity. The creativity around the maypole was unparalleled. Yes. If you want to stir up some creative shit, just dance around a maypole.

That's my, my advice to the kids today. Speaking of kids today, a lot of kids know this song now because I'm spending a bunch of TV and videos and things uh, 

send a bunch of movies too. crazy frog did a version of safety dance in 2009. Do you know who crazy frog is? No. Your son hasn't gotten a D crazy frog.

No, I don't know any of the things you're mentioning today.

Should I just make up some stuff? I feel like you are of the joke is being played on me. Well, it was crazy frog. Crazy frog is no, I did not look this up, but let me tell you what my understanding is. Crazy. Frog started as like a meme or a YouTube channel of a little frog who rode a motorcycle and saying like, uh, like a version of some popular.

Yes, I'm looking at, I mean, amped Arnie's brought me some information. Okay. And crazy frog is like a YouTube channel now with millions and millions of subscribers. And they did a version of this song. So that's how a lot of kids know the song, but also Glee did a version of the song. Mm yup. Did you ever use to watch glee? I did the first season and I think that was it. Well, this was an episode on the first season. Already the character who's in a wheelchair and the show nerdy boy that sweet nerdy boy has like a fantasy where he can dance and he's in a mall and they do like a flash mob song to this and he's like dancing.

Oh, that's cool. There's a Lipton iced tea, commercial starring Hugh Jackman that plays this song. Boom, boom, boom. I don't know what it has to do with ice tea or Hugh Jackman, but I bet he makes it work. Yeah, sure. Uh, it was in south park family guy and Alaskan airlines used to it in a commercial about COVID precautions.

Oh, nice. And not to be forgotten weird. Al Yankovic did divert did a parody of this. What's his it's called the Brady bunch and he basically sings the lyrics to the theme song of the Brady bunch to this tune. But he's like, you can watch Barney Miller. You can watch dude, the dude he's like just naming songs, you know, TV shows from the, or whatever, but please don't put on the Brady bunches.

Uh, huh? This is a story of a woman who had three lovely girls. Oh my gosh. Okay. I have so many things to say, lay it on me. I can't be silent no longer. Number one. I love that. And that's like the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald lyrics fitting Rocky raccoon. Have you ever heard that? So now do you know like that song?

What is it? Okay. I, a name was McGill, but she called herself little and oh no, it's the opposite. It's Rocky raccoon into the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. And everyone knew her as Nancy. Like that is the greatest it goes on and not, yes. Perfect. It all works. I'm pretty sure. Yes. I haven't tested it from beginning to end, so you'll have to do that and report back, but that is the legend and what little I have tested, absolutely works checks out.

Okay. Only to find Gideon's Bible like that. I know what I'm doing tonight. Yeah, exactly. Two great songs brought together. So that's what you reminded me of. But just going back a little, I was wondering if the songs tempo was part of, so I feel like it's mock your story is that it's like mocking people who say you need to be safe dancing.

Yeah. Right. Yep. And so did they, and if these guys started off like punk, like maybe the kind of slower tempo of the song was part of the mockery in a way, like. Maybe it'll just be this like methodical. Yeah. Cause it never really speeds up and just at this like moderate pace. And so I wonder if that was like, kind of part of the mockery a little bit.

Maybe you can safely dance to this. I've tried it and successfully done it. I totally agree. But I also want to go back to the picture, the vivid picture of the mother boy dance that you went to and say like, maybe that's why I have some weird, like alt-right associations with Pogo dancing, because maybe there's like some like mass, I'm not saying like people who, but, but I do think some of that punk stuff like turned into alt-right stuff like down the road, you know, some of that has to find a way to channel it.

So, yeah. and also that like young masculine, unconstrained energy could somebody could get hurt for sure. But it also feels like that's where some of that righty, like I'm thinking of proud boys and their. Yeah. And like the aesthetic that's associated with that a little bit and I grow and fuming and also the crowd mentality of January 6th, you know?

[00:38:05] Elizabeth: And because you saw a little bit of that emerging and the principal knew to expect it and was there to like, had the signal with the DJ. Yeah. So even though like the political content is different, like I'm just talking about like the crowd energy and the, and the wild, you know, the wildfire nature of it kind of yeah.

[00:38:24] Margaret: Completely like a fire. Yeah. That guy was so good at crowd control. He knew exactly when to queue because you loved me by Celine Dion was a salve on the mood of the crowd. Yeah. And the way that people like can be stirred to emotion through music. Oh my gosh. Kind of crazy when you see it. Um, music is very powerful thing , and it is interesting that the song is kind of meta like that.

Right. It's like a song about dancing to a song. Right. 

[00:39:04] Elizabeth: But I'm picturing, I don't know if I've ever been in a dancing crowd when that song played. Although maybe like, as likely as not like in a club or something, maybe I don't think I ever saw them, like in concert. It wouldn't like really fire people. It would be like a calming song in a right, because in a crowd.

Hello? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Although have you ever been to concerts where there are mosh pits and stuff? Yeah. As a young person, I was, yeah. People like seek that out because they want to, like, it makes them feel alive, you know? Yeah. For sure. God, you're making me think of , uh, the trampoline and Scott.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I, the people who I heard on the radio, whatever it was just NPR, like who are experts in crowd control are had interesting things to say about. You can't just cut the mic. Like, I guess some people were like, why didn't they cut the mic and stop the concert? Yeah.

Yes. And he was saying, well, that could make it work. Like when something unexpected happens, send the crowd turns on and it's like, get the show back on track. Yes. I was in a crowd recently. It was pre pandemic. It was an outdoor Beck concert and it was in the summer. And so probably, I don't know, four or five years ago.

And there was a thunder storm approaching. And Beck announced he had, he was maybe three songs in like really just getting gone. And he said, there's a thunderstorm in the area. And so we're getting the warning that we're probably going to have to close down. And everybody was like, Ooh. And I mean, these were all like 40 and 50 year olds.

Cause it was Beck you know, and everyone was like, Boo! Boo!. It felt potentially scary, you know, like in a crowd thing age. Yes. And then crap. And then lightning came and like a clap of thunder and everyone like screamed and started running. Like they, cause it, cause they're like, yeah, fucking dummies. It's a thunderstorm, but that's what he just said, you know?

And it was like after they had booed and so we want, what do we wanted? Yeah. And I think, you know, when the lady came, like Beck was like Audi, you know, and like ran under and everyone finally took it seriously. But the point is, it was like a gentle glimpse of like what could happen when crowds all of a sudden decide.

They're not, they're just organisms unto themselves, you know? Yeah. And those poor kids that in Houston and the people. Yeah. And the crowd control like analysts those, those kids are just like victims of that organism, you know? Yes, yes. It was the first one where this happened. Was it the Altamont uh, with the rolling stones and the I guess it was the, uh, the biker gang.

That was the hell's angels angels The Who concert in Cincinnati. You are, they were talking about that on, that was in like maybe 1979 or something like that. Yeah, because I think that the hell's angels and rolling stones, there's really such a great documentary about that. I'm going to have to look up the name of it.

I think that was a shooting. I don't think that was a crowd. Yeah, you're right. But the who concert? It was the who, where people got trampled. Yeah. I also remember in the eighties, there was the big , at the soccer stadium, the football stadium in England, uh, maybe Northern England somewhere. There was a big, the crowd pressed against, uh, a fence and many people died.

I can't remember the name of the town now, but it was like a major event in the eighties. Can I just say the Altamont was, well, this is like, you're not remembering Bruce Springsteen's, um, autobiography name because the name of the film is gimme shelter, but it was several different deaths. There was, uh, someone got stabbed.

Someone was tripping on LSD and drowned. There was a hit and run car accident, but the poncho hired the hell's angels. Where security. Exactly. Yes. Maybe not licensed and bonded in retrospect, maybe. Should I consult with the all lawyers on that one \. Anyway, giving shelter is really good.

[00:43:41] Margaret: You know, men, without hats went on to have at least one more hit they were not destined for the kind of fame that the rolling stones experienced nor the longevity. Uh, but they did have another big hit in 1987 with that song pop goes the world, which way?

Yeah, it's very like techno pop with lots of beeps and go. , they did a rock album in 2010 which interestingly was produced by Dave Ogilvy of skinny. And it was fairly verbal reviews. and lately they've been doing all those 1980s themed tours, , with, uh, like Howard Jones and Andy bell from Erasure and Berlin.

And, uh, yeah they get around in those eighties. Nostalgia tours. Yeah. 

[00:44:33] Elizabeth: Well, I, yeah, totally. I wouldn't mind seeing a whole eighties nostalgia tour for crying out loud. I confess, I, when I'm not focused with laser precision on the topic that I am likely to mix them up with men at work. Because in my mind, men at work are wearing safety hat or wearing. Yeah. What are they called? Like construction or helmets. Yeah. Yes. And then men without hats don't have any hats in my mind. I removing the construction hat. Yeah. So it gets, I have a whole scene that doesn't correspond to anything men without hats, their logo is in fact, this is probably why you're thinking of it.

Their logo is a man's head with like a bowler hat on and the international symbol for no over it. And the bowler hat, not too dissimilar from a construction helmet. , but also when you see actual men at work signs, although I guess now it's people at work. It was usually like an, a construction in a hard hat zone.

Yes. They have hard hats on, see, I'm not totally demented yet. You're not, there is, it's very easy to conflate these things because of the international symbol for safety and the helmet slash slash bowler hat you can be forgiven for confusing. These things. Safety symbols are a fascinating realm of design talk.

And I think there's like a big question about how to label nuclear waste storage sites for future beings, whether they be human or not for like, in that many thousands of years, like what will be a thing that's meaningful to keep people away?

[00:46:28] Margaret: What means danger across millennia?

[00:46:30] Elizabeth: Or, or what means radiation? Yes, exactly. Right. That's a great question. Yeah. I mean, any kind of. Cross, you would think that feels very natural. An X yeah, the an X or something. But I did hear though that Fukushima in Japan, where that after the tsunami, you know, they had like a nuclear plant reactor meltdown I've read and I haven't confirmed it, but that there were.

Messages and scribed on the cliffs that, cause it was like right on the ocean that set from hundreds or thousands of years ago from like ancient saying like do not build here, like people who are like considered the danger of that area. And of course they wouldn't have known about like nuclear power plants, but, maybe some, maybe a tsunami or maybe an earthquake or something else happened at some.

700 years ago and there, so there actually were warnings not to build there, but, and they built a nuclear reactor or nuclear power plant there, and then it was dangerous. They just looked at that scratched on the side of the Clifton. I was like, yeah, that's what I picture. I mean, it's a nice view. So exactly, like I said, I only read it in one place.

I mean, it was a credit credible source, but right. They were like, eh, those old guys didn't, you know, they didn't have what we have today. They didn't have hard hats, for example.



[00:48:02] Elizabeth: Who would you put on this mix tape? I would put, um, men without work for men at work work, former blaze of Wendy's. I put land down under right. Former employees of Wendy's nice. I would put. Some, I would probably put synthetic what's it called? Synthetic what's a synth music. I would put an eighties synthesizer music I would put, yeah, probably didn't like, just can't get enough maybe or Ooh.

And maybe even some what's the Erasure I try to discover is that chains of love. Yes. Chains of love. I love that song. Always. I would put that on it. And one of my favorite albums, I wore that tape out that erase your album. So darn good. How about you? Yeah, I, I would go with the same kind of theme and, or just like new wave hits from 1982.

So, or actually, I don't know what year video killed the radio star came out, but just in the theme of like early MTV hits. Yeah. I think I do the Buggles video, killed the radio star and then. Other new wave hits from 1982. We've already covered goody two shoes by Adam Ant oh yeah. Wall of VooDoo's Mexican Radio

imagine all three of these 82. They're all 82 Goodyear for, for new wave. Right? Right. Uh, or human league. Don't you want me? Oh my gosh. Totally. I think I throw on there. I also had a men at work song, but I chose who can it be now? Also just because I love this song, like if I had a band, I would perform this, uh, Romeo voids.

Never say never. It's so good. I don't know what you're talking about. You don't know. That's all I bet you would do. Uh, well, I don't know how most of it goes, but the chorus is never said never. 

Okay.

Is that from 1982 also? No goody two shoes and Mexican radio. I don't know about the rest of them. Goody two-shoes is in that same vein of, you know, like culture wars, you know, against moralizing that fits, that fits the context, the child ballads and stuff. I mean, that's the, the, all the Morris dancers, uh, British folk revival.

That famous album of that guy doing, um, the child ballads that you've talked about in our goody two-shoes I say, yeah, that's what was happening around this time. And it's probably why this idea for the creative treatment of this video into their minds. Yeah, though. I mean, that aesthetic for me is forever linked to the Wicker man, the horror movie, , and that, um, Midsommar, which you, so helpfully told me about it picks up on that.

It doesn't leave your mind. Does it even really like it? I don't think sticks with you. I think I did. I mean, I think I appreciate it. I don't know if I like okay. Like the experience like watching it per se again, right? No, but I thought it was quite good like in terms of, anyway, I guess Maples are just fucking scary.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's some weirdness to them, I mean, I know it's but isn't, it does it, isn't it about like fertility? So it goes way, way back. Am I right? I mean, I think so. And like, and also, um, harvest, you know, not just human fertility, but like harvest and the earth and, you know, abundance.

Well, here's what the Wikipedia says. Maypoles were erected as signs that the happy season of warmth and comfort had returned and med a and, huh. Well, I loved thinking about that song and I'm going to have to listen to it a few more times here and always. Yeah. I also always loved people. Who'd must dance and cannot be told no to don't tell me not to dance.

Yeah. You know, whether it's Popo, dancing, dirty dancing. I mean, Kenny Loggins Footloose on that next time we've hit all of them. Just in the course of natural conversation. I love it. . So go listen to safety, dance, everybody, 





[00:52:57] Elizabeth: and you give it a thumbs up. I give it a thumbs up. Oh, a Hondo P why are people so against dancing? That's my question. I. Well, that's been the theme of this show, but I think we touched on some of it it's because it can, you know, lead to violence, sex.

Historically, like that's what dancing was for, right? Like fertility dances or dances, or we hope we have a good harvest dances. Yeah. Those are all things that have to do with life. Yeah. And that have to be controlled, I guess. Yeah. You got to control life. If you're going to be the one in power and that's the moral of the story and anti-establishment, that's what we're for here.

And Ivan Doroschuk. We're on board with what ol' Ivan is selling.

well, I'm going to let you go. I'm going to go. What did I say I was going to do tonight? You gave me a great idea and now I don't remember what it was. insert the words of Rocky raccoon and to the tune of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Thank you. And then I'm going to watch gimme shelter.

Hmm. So I've got my dance card is full chock full and I have a lot to listen to also. Yeah, go get on top of it. I'll send you a, I'll send you a playlist. You can, I'll put it on our Spotify channel. You can listen to it there. Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay. It's been good talking Same as always. Bye bye.