The Material Girl: Madonna’s Marilyn Moment

"Material Girl" was the second single from Madonna’s ridiculously successful 1984 album “Like a Virgin,” peaking at #2 in 1985. By borrowing some powerful imagery from another iconic blonde (Marilyn Monroe) for the music video, Madonna earned a nickname that stuck. We discuss the making of the song and video and chat about materialism, influencer culture, Marie Kondo, and even Karl Marx and Cartesian dualism. (Gulp.) Join us as we make our first foray into the catalog of the best selling female artist of all time, the Queen of Pop herself, Madonna Louise Ciccone. 

Check out the video for Material Girl directed by Mary Lambert. 

***AND***

Visit our website at www.sickburnspod.com to leave a comment or a voicemail!

Instagram @Sick_Burns_Pod

Twitter @Sick80s

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/SickBurnsPodcast

Email us at Burningthe80s@gmail.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Chit Chat & Recommendations
• 20:44 Rate, review, subscribe!
• 21:22 Introducing the Song
• 1:03:31 The Verdict
• 1:06:02 The Mixtape

Transcript

Margaret: 0:05

Welcome to Sick burns, where to Gen X friends of corporate PR pro and a college English professor deliver choice critique on 80 songs.

Unknown: 0:13

I'm Margaret. And I'm Elizabeth. Let's get into it today. How are you doing?

Elizabeth: 0:23

Listen, I'm really good. I have I think in a past episode, we joked about having paid friends like the person who acts as my eyebrows and person who does my hair. Yeah. And I have a new paid friend. And his name is Ben. And he's taught me how to knit and I am dependent on him for knitting advice. But I really like him. And I like to pretend that he likes me.

Unknown: 0:46

Have you ever thought about asking him directly? Do you like me? I like you. Do you like me? I am thinking about it. But because he's like a guru type of knitting to me. I call him Ben knit ob. Who is face? I'll tell him next time. Where did you find Ben?

Elizabeth: 1:05

It was like a pure moment of serendipity. I had always noticed this little yarn shop, which by the way was new is near a house we had considered buying a long time ago when we were moving here. And at the time, I was like, a yarn shop. No, I wish not to be near that. But as it turns out, I shop at this little like hippy grocery that's in the shopping center where it is, uh huh. And I had had, I had endured some two hours zoom meeting for work, where that was very hard on my like, eyes and brain and everything to pay attention. And as I was going to the hippie grocery store, I looked to the side for a second and saw the yarn store. And I was like, you know what I could do during zoom meetings, I could fucking knit, because that is better than doodling like you have something. Yeah. As opposed to doodling when you have garbage. And I thought just on a lark, I just walked in and asked if they did lessons. And he said, Yes. And I took the lessons. And I'm so glad I did. And I knit during, for example, painful television, like presidential and vice presidential debates. Mm hmm. And during zoom meetings, and you know, I'm stuck at home with luck, you know, little bits of time that are very random that I have, and I can just like, do something with my hands in that time. And then you have something to show for yourself,

Margaret: 2:32

do the people on the zoom meetings with you mind that your knitting? Is it not the kind of thing need to be like taking notes, or you're just sort of passively listening?

Elizabeth: 2:41

Sometimes I do have to take notes. And that's okay, and great. And you know, then it's, I can look my look away. And I'm looking down and taking notes and involved in that way. But sometimes I'm in meetings with like 20 or 50 people, and I'm not a participant, and I can totally Listen, like while I'm doing something else. And it works really well for that, you know, I

Margaret: 3:03

read when my kids were in grammar school, I got this book to help them learn better study habits. And a couple of the tips that they gave were, if you're a kinesthetic learner, which my son is that you're supposed to do things with your hands while you're studying or going over material. And because it helps your brain retain it. And one of the things that they suggest doing is like throw a ball to each other while you're reciting multiplication tables, or what have you, or history facts. And that seems kind of like the same idea. That's also the reason that they say Doodle, the thing that you're learning about because the activity, I don't know, it just unlocks some part of your brain that helps your learning.

Elizabeth: 3:53

Yeah, I've heard that. Well, I do when I'm in smaller meetings when I don't have to take notes. I do knit I don't ask permission. I don't really need to but it's obvious that I'm listening and participating. So so I don't think I mean, maybe people are annoyed. I think I've been annoyed with people who knit in meetings that it seems like an affectation or like they're doing something else. But

Unknown: 4:13

But now, you know, it's a compulsion.

Elizabeth: 4:15

I totally get it. I think people have taken up knitting also to quit smoking, you know.

Unknown: 4:21

See? Yeah, exactly. And I met a woman who said she knits she's a lifetime knitter. But she has especially depended on it to keep herself from snacking at night, because she just was like, occupied this way. And I could really see that too. Welcome to knitting talk with Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: 4:41

Well, that's why I tried to say fucking knitting because I wanted to like spice it up a little. Yeah,

Margaret: 4:46

well, that was effective. I mean, I'm sold on the radical nature of your knitting. I will say one of my very best friends in the whole world. Tim is a crochet Yeah, and he had actually he's going through right now and making like every friend he ever had a descent collar because after RBG died, we're all like, can you please make me a design? So he's working on mine now, but he makes he's doing some blanket that has skulls on it, which is a very like punk rock crochet design.

Elizabeth: 5:23

I've heard of this. Somebody just told me about their friend making it and it sounds amazing.

Unknown: 5:28

It's really cool. Have you seen it?

Margaret: 5:31

He sent me some like Snapchat pictures of it of the detail of the skull heads. And it's really gorgeous. And reminds me of is it Alexander McQueen? Who that's like one of his motifs is this. Oh,

Unknown: 5:43

maybe so he's, he's dead, I believe. Yeah, Yeah, he is. But that Yeah, that sounds familiar. Yeah, he had a punk thing going on, I

Margaret: 5:51

believe for sure. I think Vivienne Westwood. Yeah. fired him. And yes, but yeah, so yeah, knitting can be very, like, I don't know. I don't know if Oh, yeah.

Unknown: 6:03

edgy. Yeah. I'm super cool. So all of those things.

Elizabeth: 6:08

Well, I think it's the gardening of winter, you know, because apparently like everyone during this pandemic, like freaked out and garden to the bejesus out of their yard. They absolutely did. And like nurseries were sold out of every seedling and seed and everything all summer long. And I get it. I was. And look, I already had a garden. And weeding was very pleasurable under the circumstances. I mean, physically painful. Sure, but also like, you're just like, methodical, and like just doing the thing that's right in front of you.

Unknown: 6:41

I guess. I hate waiting. I don't know what your

Elizabeth: 6:44

Yeah, I felt like I jumped out of bed with joy knowing I had to weed but I just mean like, Yeah, but anyway, but it was also like caring for this garden. And anyway, I feel like knitting is a little bit like that. Because it's just like your local thing like in front of your face. Do Yeah, well, making something

Margaret: 7:02

there is real pleasure and feeling productive. In a way. That's more than like, well, I got 20 emails written today. And right. I really feel like I got some stuff done. I mean, that's so femoral in passing. There's nothing to show for it. And there's going to be more tomorrow. Yeah. Which I guess you could say about gardening as well. But there is a cycle to it. Yes. Like it starts in the spring, and it ends in the fall, and then you get a little break, and there are seasons to it. Whereas email is a never ending, ticking grind. That will end when you die.

Elizabeth: 7:37

Yes. Not that you have any feelings about email my cut off on whatsoever. But it is it is a grinding, constant presence, metallic presence on like organic things.

Margaret: 7:50

Yes, absolutely. And then when you're not looking at your email, people text you to say, Did you get my email? Oh, my God. I just got a text like that. Right before we started recording. And I'm

Elizabeth: 8:02

I did that to Ben Adobe, because I was afraid he wasn't okay.

Unknown: 8:07

You sent me the you send him the text that said, Did I get my email?

Elizabeth: 8:11

Well, I said I called because he had not answered my email,

Unknown: 8:16

retro of you. But then I said, just delete my emails because

Margaret: 8:20

it says the same thing. When when people say like, if I see them in the hallway at work, or when I saw them, I should say past tense because God only knows when this will ever happen to me again. And people say, Did you read my email? And I want to say, if I did, I think I would have replied to you,

Unknown: 8:37

you should just say yes and passively and stare at them. I just answered your question. Yes. I read your email.

Margaret: 8:46

And then they look at you like I have said yes. And they look at you like Why didn't you respond? Uh huh. The obvious answer is because I didn't have time, like something got in the way of me replying to you.

Unknown: 9:00

Yeah, we're the center of my universe. I

Margaret: 9:03

don't know. It's like when people say when were you going to tell me that? Right now, when I told you that's what I was going to tell you. I was gonna tell you the minute it came out of my mouth. That was the plan. What are these questions,

Unknown: 9:20

people? I don't know. Worst. gardens and knitting knitting are great.

Elizabeth: 9:28

Yeah. See, they won't be trained you like that or say dumb shit to your face in that dumb way? No, but they will be like, ruined by nature. Like Yes, that's the tough thing about farming and gardening is that's true. The bodies.

Margaret: 9:42

Yeah, or the deer or the hail or the locusts or crickets or, you know, I don't know named mums pestilence or a natural disaster of some kind locusts. Yeah, sometimes that just doesn't work out for you and you starve and die.

Elizabeth: 9:58

Yeah, well, my knitting won't be trying Though but in that way ever you know you just like put it inside

Margaret: 10:04

and you get you get your you get arthritis as my husband says and he's a syllable his grandma called at that and he thought it was like named after twin your Arthur isn't inflammation of the Arthur.

Elizabeth: 10:21

I wish I knew an annoying person named Arthur cuz I would Oh gosh, I have Margaret itis

Margaret: 10:28

Margaret is inflamed. You need to put some south on that mark is an undulant.

Unknown: 10:37

Well, so in keeping up lifting gum,

Elizabeth: 10:42

yeah. But I will just say in keeping with number one knitting being cool. And number two, the theme of our show, I knitted fluorescent pink leg warmers, which is very 80s. That's a very sad thing. Yeah, for my niece. I'm a Tia. My sister in law is Mexican. And so I'm Tia Elizabeth.

Unknown: 10:59

And that's so cute. So when your Tia grows up in the 80s, then you've got a middle aged Tia and who learns how to knit and who makes you for some pink leg warmers?

Margaret: 11:10

I love it. Did you have fluorescent pink leg warmers when you were young?

Elizabeth: 11:13

It I doubt it but I sincerely believe slash em incepting myself with a memory that I desired them intensely.

Margaret: 11:22

I bought a pair maybe like 10 years ago, I was like, You know what, there are certain trends from the 80s I miss a lot and I don't want to wait for them to come back. Because there was real speaking of pleasure, there was real pleasure in them. And leg warmers was one of them. Because you get that gap sometimes between your socks and your pain.

Unknown: 11:41

Totally. I'm totally gonna

Margaret: 11:42

make myself a pair now and you and yes, well, you should. And I would say also another thing that I'm really hoping comes back in a strong way sometime soon is stirrup pants, because if you're trying to tuck your pants into your socks, a big chunky sock and they keep popping out, you really need that stirrup underneath your heel. I love that feeling of everything being all tucked in.

Elizabeth: 12:06

So amazingly, friggin body suits have come back which is a 90 thing, but stirrup pants have not. bodysuits introduces bathroom going issues there and they don't flatter. Many they may be flat or 2% of the population and our major logistical hurdles, but the stirrup pants are the body suits of the legs.

Margaret: 12:32

Yeah, uh huh. And they make so much more sense. And I do like the way a body suit stays tucked into your pants. But it does. You're not taking your pants off at the ankle as much as you are pulling your pants down. Right in the potty.

Unknown: 12:50

Yes, so yeah, my God

Margaret: 12:52

really good analogy. But yeah, we're very tucked in and the 80s Marawi. Everything was snapped in and tucked in and class.

Elizabeth: 13:00

Yeah, that's a comforting, pegged and rolled and uh huh, uh huh. Hide? Yeah, well, it was the counter to the loose and flowy and all the hell over the place of the 70s. I kind of

Margaret: 13:11

bound up but take your jelly bracelets and time and knots and string them around your wrist.

Elizabeth: 13:17

Oh, yeah. guard your swatch with a braided got swatch guard. That's right.

Margaret: 13:21

Don't let anybody take that swatch. Well, it's really speaking Why were we so bound? righties?

Elizabeth: 13:28

Right. The reactionary in us too, because I'm picturing like, peasant blouses in the 70s and like extremely frizzy hair. In fact, to me like the epitome of 70s frizzy hair is Rita Coolidge on the Muppet Show. I think we mentioned the Muppet Show on a lot of our redo burns episodes, even though I think that's a 70s phenomenon, but Rita Coolidge and Kris Kristofferson were guests on the Muppet Show, her hair is such a fire hazard. It's like down to her butt. And it's a very, yeah, frizzy and curly and curly. You can't you couldn't say curly, it's really just frizzy when I really

Unknown: 14:04

needed to trim

Elizabeth: 14:05

Yes, and she was like, very beautiful, you know, like a very beautiful person. But you just can't believe it hasn't caught on fire. And it's so and so I'm just thinking of that in my mind as the unruliness and like, I guess, Robert Plant of LEDs, uplands hair, and like, his shirt sort of like flapping around him while he was saying, you know,

Unknown: 14:25

oh, yeah. Oh,

Elizabeth: 14:28

ultra hot, of course. But also like loosen flap flapping. And flappy is like, unlike what the 80s phenomenon that you are noting.

Margaret: 14:36

And so you're right, maybe it was like a reaction to the loose flowiness, although the hair was pretty bushy in the 80s, but it had more it had like product in it.

Elizabeth: 14:48

And like, Yeah, yes. I mean, that was like the dawn of hair product, wasn't it? What? What was the gel dippity do

Margaret: 14:56

you do was from the 50s I think but but We used it for height in the 80s. And in the 50s it was like slick it back or maybe you put it in but, uh huh. Trying to get as big as you could in the 80s Uh huh.

Elizabeth: 15:11

Yeah, maybe like fashion cycles are really can be seen in terms of like, tucked untouched, tucked on tucked, tucked untucked, you know?

Margaret: 15:20

Yeah, I'm trying to think of what else in the world we had untucked as

Unknown: 15:24

a look. Well, the 90s grunge

Margaret: 15:27

Yes. Very good. I'm thinking like 1500 1600 17 Oh,

Unknown: 15:33

you're in the long game.

Margaret: 15:35

But yeah, we had like corseted on course it did. course it did. on course it did.

Elizabeth: 15:40

Really, was there ever uncorseted like boots and Tommy's just flapping around?

Unknown: 15:47

I guess. I don't know. I doubt it's nearly I mean, now. Thank God.

Elizabeth: 15:59

Yeah. Well, I don't I don't know. Well, listen, this doesn't have to do with fashion. But I have a little 80s thing to 80s themed thing to share with you. Yeah. Tell me. And I just heard on the radio this morning. Do you remember Patty Smyth? Yeah, I

Unknown: 16:16

do. She's great.

Elizabeth: 16:18

Well, I never knew. So I sing the warrior fairly regularly around the house. Let's call it a few times a year. But I never put together that it was Patti Smith. And also I think that's leftover from my personal childhood problem of Patti Smith and Patti Smith being mixed up in my own same,

Unknown: 16:35

yes, even though obviously, so very different. But well, in any case, Patty Smyth was on the radio this morning because she has a new album. Fran, she

Margaret: 16:45

does, yes, this is right now he's my phone scandal or whatever was

Unknown: 16:50

printed. Right. Wow. That was of heartache. Well, guess who she's married to? I don't know. JOHN McEnroe. tennis player.

Elizabeth: 16:58

Yes. And also he does the I just want to give a plug here. He does a voiceover like a narration for that Mindy Kaling Netflix show. Never h ve I ever did you watch that?

Unknown: 17:09

No, I did. I don't think I've even heard of it.

Elizabeth: 17:12

It is a freakin dorable. So you should watch it and maybe your daughter will like it. I don't. It's like, you know, it's about a teenager but it's got a lot of sex jokes in it. So all right, you know, let

Unknown: 17:25

me hand that right to her. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 17:28

Right, just for you. But it's the show is extraordinarily adorable and charming. And john McEnroe McEnroe does the, you know, omniscient narrator voice of it, which makes it part of its charm, I guess. But anyway, they've been married for 20. Some years. He jams apparently. And it's very hard. He doesn't have a very musical voice, let's say. And so it's hard to picture him jamming. But the little anecdote that she shared besides talking about her new album and what she's doing during the pandemic, and that kind of stuff, she also said because she was asked about Eddie Van Halen upon the occasion of his recent death, if about her relationship with them because they Van Halen asked her to be their vocalists. I wouldn't point at the point when David Lee Roth left the band. I think it was then yes,

Unknown: 18:21

wow.

Elizabeth: 18:22

Yeah. And she was eight months pregnant at the time. We said no,

Margaret: 18:28

and can't understand why she wouldn't want to go on tour with Van Halen eight months pregnant.

Unknown: 18:33

Well, she was she does wish she would have, you know, thought about it a little bit more before she answered. Sure. But it was sort of unthinkable for her at the time, but but I thought that was kind of a cool story.

Margaret: 18:43

That is fascinating. The last thing I heard from john McEnroe, he recorded a a sleep story for the calm app. Oh, yeah, the calm app,

Elizabeth: 18:54

which I do. Yes. With a lot of celebrity sleep stories. Yes.

Margaret: 18:58

They got a lot of headlines when Harry Styles released a sleep story recently, which is really nice. I enjoy listening to when I go to sleep. But john McEnroe reads the rules of tennis. Oh, boy will Pat put you to sleep that is so boring.

Unknown: 19:18

So even with his voice monotone like yelling voice,

Margaret: 19:23

a heat speaks calmly and good in this instance, because it's a calm app. So that's the direction they gave him but you can hear like he's a little Ryan a little cheeky. He makes some jokes about it being silly or boring or whatever. That's one of my favorites to listen to. Because it's so dry.

Unknown: 19:41

Yeah, girl john McEnroe. You know, he was he's got a frizzy hair.

Elizabeth: 19:46

Yeah, no doubt and somebody who was like really defined. I'm trying to segue into our song for the day. He was somebody who was really defined by one thing. You know, like every Buddy like you just had this I like john McEnroe temper done

Unknown: 20:04

knows good tennis bad temper.

Elizabeth: 20:06

Yeah, totally. And the song that I wanted to talk to you about today, the artist suffered thusly by being defined by one thing by the song for her entire career. And I'll just say I just want to give a shout out to our fan and listener Dale Wu, who suggested this song and it was an excellent suggestion. It led to a lot of interesting little tidbits and trivia and sidebars. Well, I'm telling you that ahead of time, but I guess that remains to be seen.

Unknown: 20:36

I'll be the judge of

Elizabeth: 20:38

exactly. But that song is Material Girl by Madonna.

Sick Burns!: 20:45

Dog telephone children a doorbell like sick burns podcast take your food from home to move when lush fragrances and soft silky waters caress your body. Relax your mind. It's another world episode. Two sick birds episode. yourself in luxury.

Margaret: 21:22

Nice. I can't wait to get into this one.

Unknown: 21:25

Did we give it a little lesson first? Yeah, let's listen. What a great song.

Elizabeth: 22:15

It's such a good song. And to this day though, I am mystified why she chose that pronunciation of material world and girl you know,

Margaret: 22:24

don't a lot of American singers sing in a British accent.

Unknown: 22:28

I would believe it like who else does?

Margaret: 22:33

I don't know but I'm but I do. Maybe not so many of you know the singer Phoe e Bridge

Unknown: 22:40

that's not Phoebe waller's bridges of Flea Ba So the singer Phoebe B. Has th s song. She's contem orary singer, but she's got th s song on an album from 2017. t's called motion sickne s. And it's about the singer Ryan Adams. Yeah, ex husban of Mandy Moore. And ex boyfri nd of lots of people and like us. Alleged big jerk. es. Yes, alleged big jerk. I guess lots of people have accused him of like, emotional abuse and things like this. And she's got this song called motion sickness, which is kind of a diss track about him. She says, Why do you sing in an English accent? I guess it's too late to change that. And then she says, When I was born, you were already in a band. The point is she's making fun of Ryan Adams for singing in a British accent. Yeah. So that's one other person. I mean, I don't know. My husband does it and I'm like, What the hell? You're from Wickliffe Ohio. Why are you singing like this? I feel like Madonna in the song only does it though. In that one chorus part like every other time she sings the words material and world and girl she sings that with her normal American accent except when it's like drawn out. She had a momentary just a feeling of Anglophilia pas ed over her and she she had that later today. And she didn't she gets some interviews with like, sort of weirdo faux British accent Now in fairness, I think she was living there at the time. Yeah, well, she was called the shit and still is probably called the Material Girl, everybody Well, after you know, that's just her name became her name. Yes. And I do feel bad for her a bit. But I mean, she did buy a castle in Portugal, so she's not doing a lot to prove people wrong. Right. So did you ever own just as a little side note before I tell you some things about the history of the song and so forth. I just would like to know about your fishnet fingerless glove history if you have one or black rubber bracelets or any of that kind of thing. I had the black rubber bracelets. I had a long lace skirt. Hmm, like black was white. Oh, even better. Yep. And You could like wear it you'd like layer it with other things. Yeah, you are like a virgin. Yeah. And I had another like long skirt that I would wear over it and then it would like pull one side of it up and tie it in a knot. So you could like See? Oh, the last thing is kind of like a canned girl or something immodest a bit. nicer pants. And that's about as far I didn't have like a bustier or anything I don't have some fingerles gloves Did you? Yeah, I think I did, too. I definitely had a bunch of black rubber bracelets. Let's see. That was 1985. So I was probably a bit young. I think my parents were not necessarily supportive of spending a lot of money on my fashion whims. Sure, especially if they were revealing some of those things you could like the gloves and the bracelets. You could sort of do that was definitely I remember the moment Well, yeah, her fashions influence spilled over into all kinds of things that went on girls were what I mean, what will be like 12 and 13 when Like a Virgin came out, I guess. I wasn't wearing boost days to the club or anything. I was just get right. In my parents went down with that album. Yeah, no, mine weren't either. I think I remember maybe somebody gave me the album for like a birthday or something like that. Because I do remember owning it. Like I can see it. And I think I have a memory of my parents saying she looked stupid or something, you know, like not saying, Uh huh. not commenting on the sexuality of the image so much as like trying to put her down as like looking like a negative in a way they thought would appeal to me and so not not intelligent. Yes. Look at her. She's not smart. Really. She just made millions of dollars. So yeah, it's not smart now.

Elizabeth: 26:54

Yeah, I will say like, from what I learned about the song and the video and everything the production. Smart. Yes, I would have said clever, clever as shit in many, many ways. I don't know how much she can be attributed with that. Because I think that the video director probably came up with the concept for it. So I can talk about the video first. So it was listeners may recall, or maybe they want to take a look at it. It is an homage or it's a recreation really of a scene from the Marilyn Monroe movie, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and Madonna is dressed in this sort of hot pink taffeta gown and she's draped with diamonds. And she's like, dancing on kind of a Busby Berkeley kind of stage. And with men and tuxes, like passing her around and everything like that, and the clever ness to me at least a little bit as of her associating herself with Marilyn Monroe. And once again in this like 80s nostalgia for the 50s Mm hmm. Yeah, right. Yeah, no, but also because of the ways she identified with having like being defined by her sexuality and being sort of pigeon holed in these various ways by the public. So I don't know how, quote unquote smart she was about it, but it definitely like worked for her and cemented her as kind of an icon, you know, her association with Marilyn Monroe.

Unknown: 28:14

Did you know who Marilyn Monroe was before that video came out? Oh, good question. When did she die? Did she die when in our lifetime?

Margaret: 28:23

No, she died while Kennedy was president, right? h,

Elizabeth: 28:27

or after maybe after? Yeah, maybe? So? That's a good question. And I have no way of knowing but certainly, that video would have brought her to consciousness much more than anything else. You know,

Margaret: 28:38

I think she's so good at using these super powerful, iconic images. You know, whether it's Marilyn Monroe, or Christ or whoever. brides or

Unknown: 28:50

Yeah, that cross thing has been working for centuries. Certainly not the first.

Elizabeth: 28:57

Well, I'll just say about the video. Since we're talking about it. Just a little bit of fun trivia was directed by somebody named Mary Lambert, who now directs kind of directed video horror movies. Now

Unknown: 29:07

it's a woman directed it. A woman directed Oh, cool. I didn't know that

Elizabeth: 29:12

not only a woman director, but also a woman whose younger sister was Blanche Lincoln, the Senator from Arkansas until 10 years ago or so. The director's

Margaret: 29:22

younger sister was the Senator from Arkansas. Yes. What an accomplished family.

Elizabeth: 29:27

I know. This is not the cheese none. I will say this was a United States senator.

Unknown: 29:35

I think she beats Jacko marzetti or whatever his name was. Shana.

Elizabeth: 29:42

No cheese, none she. Oh, and I could tell you a little bit about Gentlemen Prefer Blondes which I did see. Have you seen that movie?

Unknown: 29:49

I have not. It's really good. I

Elizabeth: 29:51

mean, just like all Marilyn Monroe movies, it turns out Marilyn Monroe was fairly talented. But I will say that the Video for Material Girl it has a little ironic layer another layer of it because the love interest in the video played by Keith Carradine. Mm hmm Do you know the difference between Keith Carradine and David Carradine by the way?

Unknown: 30:14

Um, they're they have different first names.

Elizabeth: 30:16

Yeah, one of them is alive and one is dead. Is that correct?

Unknown: 30:20

No, I don't know.

Elizabeth: 30:21

Well, when I'm when I'm in the nursing home and demented I will get the carotenes mixed up with the almonds

Margaret: 30:27

are the carotenes related is one of the Father and one the son and one was in the TV show about grasshopper.

Unknown: 30:35

They might be cousins like the Fonda's Oh, okay. I don't know. I feel like there's all these like 17 guys.

Margaret: 30:42

Which cousins are the Fonda's? Nephew?

Unknown: 30:45

Uncle?

Margaret: 30:46

No, Peter and Jane were brother and sister and

Unknown: 30:50

that's bad. I thought Henry was their uncle. No, sir. Dad. Oh, my God. Somebody check Benny, who's our engineer, our producer, Nigel. Check. We check on that. Thanks, Joe. But it's a whole group of them sitting back there. Yeah, I know what who's got somebody on it? Who is the ombre you on it? And you get the Can you just check it? Just Wikipedia? I don't know. Just Wikipedia. Okay. But all those like 70s and 80s. You know, families? I don't know they blend together but in any case, dynasties, the entertainment dynasties. Yeah, totally. So Keith Carradine is the love and trust and he is trying to get with the Madonna character. Yes, he overhears that she is actually like not interested in a diamond necklace that someone gives her. And so but even though she's like involved in this big lavish production and covered with ermine, furs, and so forth, so then he puts two and two together and just picks a bunch of modest daisies, and brings the daisies and then buys a little cute old jalopy from I don't know why they include this detail from the like old man farmer. They have we in the video he guys the jalopy? Yes. They remember that they show him handing over like a little stack a lot, a small stack of dollar bills. To an like 80 year old man and overalls and a hand perhaps a hat to invent this artifice to her of being poor look. Yes, Robert, July, please. Take these daisies and she comes out of the set, you know because she's filmed the video or whatever. And she because it's all these like layers of meta, whatever. And she looks kind of punk. You know, like the Madonna that got dropped off in Time Square with $25 or whatever, you know. And but she does have I think maybe some kind of rhinestones or something but and her thick eyebrows and everything. And she's carrying her little daisies and then they get in the jalopy and I think they show them making out. She falls for it is what you're telling me? Yeah. So it's kind of meant to be like ironic and that they show that you wrote that she really can be won over with not just diamonds, but daisies. So really what she's in it for is like the the unassuming. She's not a material girl. She cares about a small gesture, correct? Oh, yeah. So that's the video listeners. Take a look at it and tell us what you think. But now I'm going to tell you more about the song. Okay. Yeah, yeah, do it. All right. Well, some little bit of trivia is just that it was produced by Nile Rodgers, who really you'd be hard pressed to find some 80s hit that did not have his fingerprints on it in some way or another right. He was a founding member of Sheikh and they had their own hits. However, they also got like looped into samples galore, including rappers delight, and there's a Daft Punk song that uses a Sheik clip and Nile Rodgers helped produce Well, he he wrote, We Are Family by Sister Sledge. She also wrote I'm coming out Diana Ross's hits, and he produced David Bowie's album Let's dance. He produced a couple Duran Duran sounds like the reflex and notorious and an excess his original sin. He's just like, oh my goodness, totally everywhere. Although prolific, so prolific. so talented. I Wow. I'm super impressed. And chic. Today sing. Love freak. I believe they did. Okay. Yes. I think they were at the tail end of the disco maybe or the height of it. I don't know the years Exactly. The Disco craze? I think that's right. Because didn't say love freak say chic. Inna youngness Oh, yeah, I think that was one of those. He's an interesting guy himself. I'll just say he was born to a 13 year old mother. Oh, I know. And that's always like a little unthinkable when people Ah, goodness. It was when he was a bit older that his mom married some crazy beatnik. I'd need to check on this detail, but I think that the beatnik that his mother married was like a PhD student, which is very funny to me having been one once and he was like a beatnik. This new husband I think I already said that. They lived in Greenwich Village, and they moved in like sort of intellectual circles and guests at their home included Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, Thelonious Monk, yeah, oh my gosh, I know. Also though, some heroin use. Oh dear, which sometimes came along with that. But anyways, now Rogers lives yet and thrives. And he is one of the most interesting and experienced guys in the music business. And so I just wanted to note him because he's the producer of the song. I feel like I want to read it. Does he have a memoir or a movie about his life does no way I need to read it. I wish I could remember the memoirs name Benny. Can you check that out? Can you Wikipedia that like now? faster this time? Okay, thanks. Slow. I see. So sit together, dude. God. The other thing to say? Okay, so then there's some more things to say about this song. It's talking about materialism. Yes, by which it means something kind of like shallow. And you know about like, just accumulating goods and so forth. I would like to say so fucking What? It's okay to want to be comfortable and have beauty like those seem like natural, normal human needs. Yeah. But also, I am linking Material Girl with this beach that's sort of famous given by Gordon Gekko in Wall Street. No character played by what's his Michael dog Michael Douglas, when he that ends with him saying greed is good. And that's that film was in 1987, which is a couple years after Material Girl, but I feel like the 80s were kind of about like re animating or reinvigorating these ideas that were like sort of cynical, but making them seem more wholesome. Yes. does seem very vague. And to do that, doesn't it? It does. Yes. Mm hmm. I feel like analysis. Yeah, I feel like everything's so clear now. And at the time, we were just like, Oh, no, no, it's a good song, I guess. And like now 30 years later, it like all falls into this pattern. And I'm like, What the fuck were we thinking? Well, yeah, octave? I mean, you don't know you can't see the forest for the trees. True. That's the that's the the grace and the gift of time. But maybe it is a good thing that people started to consider like personal comfort and beauty around them more seriously. I don't know. Oh, thanks me. Without Penny just been given a paper from the research department. Oh, what did I say Nile Rodgers memoir is called love freak. Oh, well, that answers your question. Yes. Much like Born to Run is the name of Bruce Springsteen's autobiography. In a much the same vein. Where is Nigel looking up all that? Fonda stuff. The Fonda's stuff. Yeah. Pete. Okay. God, he just came in. Here comes here comes Nigel with the Sony the carrot Keith Carradine. But yeah, Henry found out was Jane Fonda and Peter Fonda's dad, whatever. Now we need them. Maybe they also have a famous uncle who knows. Yeah, where were we? Sorry, beauty, the beauty that reaganism Oh, Gecko. Well, I also I mean, there's different meanings of materialism. There's like that version of it that where you use it as an insult, like you're so materialistic, like, all you care about is stuff. Although I wonder if people even say that anymore. I don't know if they do say that anymore. Because it's already if they say what if they say, materially cares about stuff, like talks about people as Oh, yes. materialistically shallow? Oh, yes. I mean, there is a Hello. Have you read the life changing art of tidying up? I mean, the whole thing about decluttering culture is that we need to issue Mona stuff we need to live some we need to stop indulging. We just don't call it materialism so much. But that Yeah, what it is. So I say yes, well, then that's more of like the assumption that we all are materialistic and we need to like, well aren't we are just a bunch of crows that pick up shiny things at Target. Bring them back to the nest. I definitely am. I did hear him. Did you ever follow any of that? Marie Kondo advice? Yeah. I bought that book. Well, before I think her book came out like two years before the Netflix show, you were an early adopter of tidiness. I am like I aspire to it. And I subscribed to a whole lot of like Instagram channels about tidiness. Yeah, but I myself am terrible at it. Yeah. I had to fight against the clutter. The natural clutter that comes with mice, myself. Did you try it? Yeah, I tried to do my closet. And I got so I started pulling everything. You remember that? The the idea of it is take everything out of your closet. I put it. I've done that. Uh huh. And I got about halfway done. And I took a nap. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then I did you take your nap atop the pile? I laid on the pile of clothing like a Princess and the Pea. And I just draped my body over a nice knuckle up. Yeah, it didn't go. Well. I failed. Yeah. And then you just put it up again. Did you put it up? Just back in a pile? I did. Okay. shove it into my closet on the floor. Yeah. And then do you know what I did? I googled Professional Organizer. And then I looked them up. And I think I looked at the price sheet and I was like, I'm just gonna be cluttery. Yeah, cluttered. Home is a sign of wisdom and beauty. Yeah. So I have no, do I I'm looking deep in my soul. I don't think I have any moral association or judgment associated with clean or dirty people. I really don't think I do. Like I feel like I feel like I understand both like very well. And I think my own natural inclination is to be very messy. Also, however, I did follow her instructions for drawers and closet and did haul out like a good Oh, no, I'm gonna say five or eight garbage like huge garbage bags of clothes. Wow. Good for you. Yeah, I wasn't an early adopter, though. I was just a trend follower. And I only did it after the show came sort of at the beginning of the pandemic. Oh, no, I think it was like last year, maybe last summer. I can't remember when her show first came out. At the beginning of the pandemic, it where I live, people were saying stop, like goodwill, and all these places will no longer accept because everybody was cleaning up, everybody. were overwhelmed. Yeah, totally. And to this day, I still fold my clothes according to her instructions, because it's just a little easier to see in the drawer. You know, the way when they're rolled up like that? Yeah. rolled up style. Yep. Yeah, it's overtime that's really devolved. Because they used to be like, very adorable little rose, like in a little pastry shop or something like that. And now it's more like, I don't know, guinea pigs in a cage or something like that. Yes, yes. But I think that's different than materialism. Because I think that the thing that Madonna is talking about is like wanting luxury goods, like materialistic and that way. Yes. And I don't feel like people criticize people for that anymore. Like they all Everyone knows that we all just like want it and admire the people who have it. And that's it. I don't know, I feel like I follow my share of like, very critical blogs that are also very critical of like, Kardashian culture and this like the way that they will promote a whatever a face cream or something and then everybody has to have it. I mean, I also think it's an interesting thing to talk about with influencer culture. Uh huh. Oh, my because that really normalizes the whole materialism. Like even during the pandemic, I was what I follow a lot of fashion influencers, frankly, just for like outfit ideas, because I'm sure how to wear every day. I know. They were really hampered by Catholic school in that regard. I just want to throw out there. I've continued, right? Yeah. Where is gray and navy blue and white every single day some combo of it? I wear more than my share of plaid because I'm just used to it. Yeah, exactly. I don't know any better. I still am drawn to white Oxford button downs. Yes. Uh, I don't know what I'm doing. So I follow these. mostly women. I during the pandemic, I was like, you guys are still shopping. What are you dressing up for? I don't Yeah. Why are we still doing this? It feels like such artifice. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it made them happy. And also a lot of them that's their income. So they had to keep keep going. Right? Yeah, they just switched to athleisure and comfy so they probably got that stuff for free. Because they're influencers though like because the company probably makes way more money giving them $100 pair of leggings then yeah, no works on affiliate links and things like that. Anyway, I really took you off topic. But I do think we're as or more materialistic now, but I don't think that we're as critical of it as we used to be in the 80s. Yeah, I think is the thesis of this discussion that you've brought precisely so. And that's probably just because we're so used to it now. Right? Yeah, I feel like I've even heard some crazy statistics about how many more like pounds of clothing people buy now than they used to. And especially because like fast fashion has contributed to that quite a lot. And so I mean, I think part of that is maybe materialism. I mean, maybe it's like the degraded souls of the consumers. But it could also be that clothing is like much crappier and falls apart much sooner. And there now and also, like, how much more money there is to be made, not just like, manufacturing and selling more items, but like, all the accoutrements of like telling people that they need, you know, though, the blogs and the magazines, I don't know if people actually read magazines anymore. I do. They read digital content. Yeah. Right. Like all the media, that is like telling you that you need to buy more things. And then your clothes also are falling apart. And so that's why they do. Yeah, but even still, like this is the, the like, luxury, good. I feel like in Gosh, what year would it have been maybe like the early 2000s or something, there was a little like a time when people were, maybe it was just my age, like there was a certain time in my life where I was like, I should really be owning and Irma's scarf. It is time in my life that I need that I that my clothing items will be investments. And where'd you get that idea? I don't know. That's what I'm wondering. And I'm wondering what year it was. And maybe it was even only like a passing fancy for like a month and I forgot about it. And because I never got one? No, you didn't? Oh, no. But I actually I have a friend who has one I remember. And I saw her, you know, within the past, like five years or something. And I was like, Oh my god, that scarf looks so good. And she was like, it's our mess. And she had had it for like maybe her mom and had it. I mean, it was like a very, very, like, understandable way. And I will tell you it fucking worked and obviously would have worked, you know, 20 years prior and will work 50 years hence, and so forth. And so was clear like that an investment could be sort of like that. But in any case, I feel like there was an era and once again, maybe it was just me where all of a sudden we were like expected to own whether it was in our means or not like the idea of like luxury goods, then Airmen a possibility for your basic person. Yeah, totally included. And that would be like a low level thing. I mean, obviously, like a fully pet tech watch, or something would be like out of the question. But there's like little things, you know that you could Oh, and like cosmetics, really capitalize on this? Yeah, I will tell you, I remember being in a marketing meeting, one of the big companies I worked with, and this would have been in late 90s, early 2000s. And our advertising agency was presenting a bunch of research consumer research to us. And they were talking about the consumers need for small indulgences. And so I think that's around the time that this happened. You know, and possibly that's because, you know, again, everything's a reaction. So it was maybe a reaction to the late 90s. And then people felt like they deserved small indulgences. And this is part of the reason that explains the success of Victoria's Secret. Yeah, I saw lots of ad advertising messages talking about you deserve it. Who was you deserve a break today? Was that McDonald's? That was McDonald's. So I think that's right. And, like this idea of entitlement. Yeah, I'm happy still about this today. Like, I've had a really hard day. I'm gonna get go to Starbucks and get a pass by so yeah, because I deserve it. And I have to have something small to balance out the misery of my daily existence. Oh, yeah. Whether it's fancy face cream, yeah. Or a little a $6. latte. Yeah, extra whip or totally, you know, like a peloton bike. Right? Or, like, there are things that are good for you and things that aren't good for you. But they're all just entitlements and indulgences and well, they sell the thing by telling you you deserve it. Hmm. You know, that entitlement is spot on, I think because I think that's been like developing basically ever since like the dawn of industrialization, you know, and I even heard a person I think it was just like a TED talk or something on NPR but she studied love and romance and She might be a psychologist of some sort. But she talked about how, in previous times, marriage and children were not things that you like, chose or wanted, like choosing and wanting, were not part of the vocabulary of how you thought about that, you know, right. They were life necessity, economic and life necessities and you had many children, because a lot of them died and you needed to work the land, and you got married, because you would starve to death if you didn't. But then starting around the 19th century, people started to consider relationships as something that you actually got to choose among suitors, for example, and like when things like middle class got invented, people started to and this is around the time that like, for example, there were political revolutions, which had to do with political choice also. So this was like an era of choice kind of dawning on people, right. And so then you got to choose and then also, divorce came into the picture, too, because then people, which in many cases, like allowed women to stay alive, for example, or whatever, but then even even further down the road. Now, from her perspective, from the speaker's perspective, people talk about marriage, like people get divorced, according to her sometimes, just because they don't feel totally fulfilled by their partners, they're still good friends, and they still even love each other. But, you know, for them, marriage has to really be this, like, totally fulfilling thing. And her point was also that marriage now is has to, like, fill the function that like an army of people used to it, you know, like, used to have a village and your extended family. You know, it was like childcare and social interaction and sexual fulfillment and all these things, that, that were like a lot of people and now it's all on your spouse. And you have to just feel like this personal fulfillment from it. And so it seemed very true. But it also seems like that's everything. Same with work. Like you have to feel fulfilled by your job. You know, I mean, ever since, like Marx talks about being alienated from it, and you have to feel fulfilled by your religion. That's why there's so few, you know, people are like, leaving religions and, like, whatever. Yeah, I never thought you could choose a religion. Right? That's a great point. And now you do like you are you choose not to be it because you like disagree with its stance on whatever, because you don't feel like but that's regulatory, right? The idea that everything is a choice, you have no good, I guess there's, like a lack of responsibility in this, but you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Mm hmm. Which is the truth, even though you should you don't have to stay and raise your children. Mm hmm. You don't have to turn off that episode. Right? It goes to the next one. Right? You don't have to raise it. Right. Yeah. You don't have to do any of these things. Yeah, you don't have to earn your own bread. You could just let somebody else frickin pay for it. But you don't have that left, like a refugee. Thank somebody. But that's, I guess where morality comes into it? Huh? You don't have to do anything. But there are some things that you should because they're a moral imperative. Yeah. Or because maybe so well, that actually brings me to the other aspect of materialism that I wanted to talk about. Because that's like a philosophy actually. materialism. Yeah, I mean, and a philosopher would know a lot more about it than I do. But, and it also has like, a much longer and less Western history that I'm aware of, because I know, there was a lot of Asian philosophers that talked about this, but you know, starting around, say, I mean, the 19th century or so like the idea being that there's and also maybe as a response to Cartesian dualism, because like Descartes would have said, you know, there's the spiritual realm and the material realm, basically, this group of philosophers, including Marx said that there's actually only only material right and, and, and that's taken a lot of different twists and turns over the century and a half or so, you know, where like, some people have taken up, taken that idea and said that taken a very hardcore sort of scientistic approach to it that everything's like measured with science. Some people are more interested in like, how, because they'll say, Okay, fair enough, if everything is only material, but then how do we get things like ideologies like patriotism, like what is the material basis of patriotism example right? And some people are interested in how in treating things that seem like different kinds of things, patriotism and Like group psychology and evolutionary biology and like seeing how those can be like explained materially sort of. So there's lots of different ways of approaching this. And there's even like a strain of thought now in the 21st century called New materialism that philosophers, some philosophers, or theorists espouse. And so, what the heck was it that you said that made me think of that? Because you were saying, well, I introduced the idea of you don't have to do anything. It's all a moral and moral imperative, the moral imperative, right, thanks. Because then, you know, some might say, well, that moral imperative comes from this like relationship of institutions that ended up creating a way that you think of yourself as a moral being, or that create the kind of like, behavioral or economic pressure that makes you think of morality in a way that you perceive as like benefiting yourself within a social realm or something like that. Anyways, me like I'm such a good mother because I didn't leave my children I deserve or adulation latte, yes, but that you're but that that moral achievement is the result of like, careful, long standing ways that for example, like, maternity is configured in the place where you live, and what kind of like medical and legal institutions. Yes. We're all rewarded with Mother's Day, like our culture a made up holiday to celebrate. Yeah, I'm also living up to our duty or whatever, yes. But I like to think of Madonna song as being like, you know, Marxist in that way yet. Like, yes, I'm a bit I'm a Material Girl, because I am the result of these like, long standing holidays and institutions and banking practices or whatever that have right made me and she does say in a material world, precisely like a product. Yeah. of vironment. Yeah, that's a really interesting read on it. Yes. And she fucking is, you know, like, that's, I mean, it was like she had Maryland, she had like this palette to work with, you know, the femininity of Marilyn Monroe, you know, the morality associated with judging women for wanting luxury goods. Mm hmm. And their economic inability to acquire them, you know, without a man to raise her interest. Exactly. Yeah. And then so she had this sort of palette to draw from and then she obviously contributed to it too, because of course, like, women wouldn't be womanhood would not be what it is today without Madonna. Let's, let's just face facts. You mean the singer? Right? Yes. Yep. Okay. And this thing, I would not be who she was without the mother of Jesus. She'd probably be named like, Susan or Christina. Yeah, exactly. No, Lisa. Hi, Jennifer. Jennifer. Yep. Yeah, so anyway, um, yeah, I mean, I feel like Madonna totally shaped like what it meant to be like a female in the US. For me, completely. I mean, she was so empowered. But that song was so empowering. Just by calling out and I get that it was all tongue in cheek. Like, I think that part of it was delivered with a bit of like, I can't be tongue in cheek style. I mean, especially with all the little funny lyrics, like if they can't raise my interest, then I'll have to let them be, which is such a great lyric. But I remember feeling like oh my gosh, she's totally copping to the fact that she wants stuff. Yes. Feels regulatory. Yes. Right. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, it works a lot of different ways. So that's my song. I have one more little tiny piece of trivia to tell you about it, but it's kind of like once removed, because the trivia is actually about Gentlemen Prefer Blondes the movie. Oh, yeah. Uh huh. Huh, which obviously was the basis for the video, and that is that there is a novel. That movie was based on a musical which was based on a silent film, which was based on a novel that was written in 1925 by Anita loos, who herself was a early I don't know if you would say feminist but definitely like a woman with early success in Hollywood as a writer. So she wrote this novel called Gentlemen Prefer Blondes she herself was a brunette and it was legend has it was after she had been on a train had a lot of trouble retrieving her luggage from the overhead compartment like struggling and struggling. And no one helped her but then as soon as a blonde woman like dropped a book or newspaper she was reading like five men like rush to like pick it up for her. Yeah. And, and Anita loos rolled her eyes at this that inspired this novel and which was like a 1925. Can you imagine what the United States was like then? I would say fucking fun as hell, you know what I mean? Like little did they know what was coming? Oh, you think? I guess because it was before the depression and people won and after the First World War and after the flu pandemic, and so it was like fun fun fun. Women were cutting their hair and totally I picture Anyway, um, I mean, for a lot of people, obviously not for everyone. I mean, maybe if you were like in Chicago, if you were on a farm in Nebraska might not have been so fun. perhaps less so. Um, so anyway, since then, you'd probably have your knitting. Yeah, but also and also like, everyone has their ups and downs. Don't get me wrong. 1927 she wrote a sequel to the book called gentlemen, Mary brunettes. Oh, yes. And then several decades after that, they she was asked, Will she write yet another a third book in the series? And she's like, very like, I guess you would say facetiously joked. Yes. And the third one will be called Gentlemen Prefer gentlemen. And the questioner was like, This interview is over. Oh, man, she's funny. We need to read that. I know. I'm it's just occurring to me that Marilyn Monroe was in that movie and she was a brunette. Like, Norma Jean is a brunette. Oh, right. Yes. She died. Yeah, bottle blonde, right. Yeah, right. Toto is Madonna. Absolutely. You know, Jane Russell, what you would say was her co star but Jane Russell got paid a lot more than Marilyn Monroe did because Marilyn Monroe was still on a contract. And Jane Russell was not so and Jen Russell was a brunette and there's a little part of the movie where she wears a blonde wig to like imitate Lorelei, the Marilyn Monroe character, but yeah, how friggin dumb about like blonde versus brunette. And throughout the 20th century, the white were trying to divide us ladies and we need to say no to that. So, Tom, you know, I was watching we watched birds of prey, the Harley Quinn movie. Oh, yeah. And, and there is a piece of it that Miko Roby is that the Margot Robbie's in it and there is a little piece of it that evokes that she's dressed up like Marilyn and Madonna, and they're doing a little send up of that famous diamonds are a girl's best friend. Oh, is that okay, good. Um, I've I have found it to be very entertaining. Yes. You know, it's violent. But she's freaking amazing. And everything. She's so great. And she will always be so close to my heart for her. Tonya Harding. Oh, totally. I mean, give that girl all the awards, like the performance of the decade for me, she's so good in that. Yeah. So let's move on to the verdict. Well, and John's to the plaintiffs and the defendants about judge Walker's decision right after these messages. So your verdict would be thumbs up on this song? Well, here's the thing. There's like three notes in that song, you know, musically, it's not like, it's not the most virtuoso performance for any of the people involved. And so I it's catchy as hell, and I'm gonna say like, massive thumbs up for the whole like, conceptualization from the like, writing of the song through the video. And like, all the ways that it made Madonna into like, the late 20th centuries, Madonna, you know, but um, this listening to the song is not like the most pleasant experience in the universe. Yeah. What do you what do you think of her? Oh, yeah. And like the robotic men chanting the thing in a material world. Like it's just not sure. Mm hmm. Not her best work, but very tasty. Right? Like, it's almost Tuesday guys see? Like, you didn't just put your finger on the pulse. Yes, stuck a needle right in that vein. Absolutely. Like if you if 1000 years from now they're running video clips of the 20th century that one will be in the real for 100% Sure, yeah and for very good reason and for reasons, not just accidental, but you know, like intentional and produced so but like I said, I can't I can't get I can't get behind listening to the song. Hmm Well, I can I think it's a thumbs up for me just mostly. I'm possibly just because of my it felt like a personal revelation to me not because I really stand behind its message and just that I felt like it was so bold of her as a woman to be declaring. So candidly I guess like how capricious she was or something I think that that's so fair enough old What about math tapes? That pink satin is so pretty it's so pretty it's bad the video I can watch the video more than once the video I feel like makes the song a little bit really says more about the production designer of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes raise about Madonna I guess. Perhaps mixtape time. mixtape time. Oh, except by the way Nigel just came in with the information about the caribbeans Oh, let me know. What is the deal with sip Have a seat. I'll get you one I I'll let you know. Oh, we need something else. I'm half brothers. Oh, David are half brothers. And Keith Carradine lives yet also. Okay. I'm gonna say he's a real handsome guy. I forgot he was Wild Bill Hickok and Deadwood, which is one of my favorite TV Shows of All Time. Oh, wow. I did not know that. Yeah. Anyway, having brothers there you go long enough to come up with that minimal and for me, how long does it take to Google something? Okay, so mixtape, so my my theme would be like, tails of capricious females. Oh, nice. That's a great thing. Um, and I think the one that comes to my mind is everything she wants by Wham. Hmm. Which is like the man on it. Maybe? Yeah. After a bit of time. And yeah, it's grown old for him. Yeah. Maybe along the lines of like, manic pixie dream girl. I would put raspberry Moray on there. Also notice Hey, where there is Madonna. You have to have prints? Because you know, buddy's? Uh huh. I thought of all she wants to do is dance by Don Henley, which is also from the man's point of view about what a woman wants nice. I had a very hard time thinking of songs from the woman's perspective declaring things that they want. The closest one that I can think of to this song is another one that Madonna herself recorded. And it's a Christmas song. And I freakin hate it. But I feel like I'm going to mention it here and that I am Santa baby. Oh boy. I remember that while I was on the Tracy or I thought it was on a very special Christmas. Oh, yes. Yes. The one which was a charity benefit. Mm hmm. Yep. Yes, it is. You're right. And it's the cover of the Earth kit song. Hmm she's saying like, I want a deed and I want some furs and I want some diamonds and her voice and that is unbearable. Well she's doing it like as that character that Dick Tracy character Yeah, right from that movie which is fully forgettable. Oh, except for the song more from Dick Tracy. I remember that. Got my diamonds. Got my Yeah, it's got a guy. Joe I'm so happy with what I got. One more on the dances great that you're doing right now listeners you can't see it. It's akin to Kermit the Frog. I would say yes. That is a very Kermit the Frog dance that you do. Yes. What would you put on the mixtape? Well, my theme would probably be like cynical not cynical. You know or like songs that were like calling out yes ism. So to me the number one song in that realm as everybody knows by Leonard Cohen although I also quite like the concrete blonde cover of that that they recorded I believe for Pump up the volume to remember that Yeah, we talked about that on previous episode. I don't remember which one it was but we did. Yeah. Because after you mentioned it I went and watched both of them. Both of what Pump up the volume and what the Leonard Cohen version and the CO Blondie Yes. Oh, I thought you might you watch the movie Pump up the volume. No, I bet it was the Mexican radio episode. Yes. That was about a rogue DJ. Yes, that's exactly where it was. Yep. Okay. Anyway, so I have a Everybody knows maybe what's the what's the title of it is at fame 90 the George might I because I also have a George Michael, about when you shake your ass they notice fast some mistakes were built to last freedom 90 Yes. Yeah, still a fantastic song I would say yes. Maybe born in the USA. I mean just like Prince and Madonna go together so does Bruce you know. Yeah and that and that's a song that is, you know real sort of disillusioned. Yep. Those are the three that I came up with. I also had the non aromas Venus on my list. Oh, yeah. I don't know why, I guess just this idea of like a woman as a, like a powerful image of a woman talking about what she wants. But Nana Rama was now they say it in England. Uh huh. And we Cleveland we called them Bananarama. But in England there, but no, no Roma, right where we eat tomatoes. Tomato water. So what? I'm just coming up with a bad name. Oh, tomato. The tomato version of banana Ram. Oh, tomato. Tomato. Water. Tomato. Yeah. Didn't somebody else do Venus? Was it Kim? The rail version? Did she? Wait, who? Nigel. Nigel Nigel got wake up. Can you just Google these things when they come out of our mouth? anona Rama English pop group. They're a big deal in England. Good I believe not such a big deal here. Oh, shocking. Blue. Thank you, Nigel. Shocking. Blue. Recorded Venus in 1969. Oh, okay. I think I'm thinking of something else. Kim wild. Does that name mean anything to you? Yeah, she things were the kids in America. And French kissing in the USA. Huh? You keep me hanging on? Yep, that's the word that she did that I was thinking of because that but that's the supreme so I think so. delete, delete. Nope, not gonna do it. Okay, well, that was that's my song. And that is that episode and I think we've freakin killed it. Maj. I love you. I know that you've come to symbolize the access of an entire decade impossibly century but I love you and thank you for giving me this song. Oh, God. Okay, I'm glad we closed with I just wanted to to the Madonna put that right out there to her. Yes. The prayer to Madonna. Yeah, you got to do it. You got to put that rosary around your neck. Listen, that's like when hey, yeah, came out. And Polaroid was like you're not supposed to shake Polaroid pictures? Like I feel like in Catholic school because you're aren't apparently because it makes everybody does it? I know. Because they're like shake it like a Polaroid picture. Polaroid was like, Listen, people we never meant for you to shake it. And I feel like when Madonna came out, like all the nuts like the nuns, it was the same thing. Like, guess what? It looks like a necklace, but it's not a necklace. You're not supposed to put the rosary around your neck. Like we all did an opportunity to explain that. Thanks for teaching me how to use this. Sister Mary Agnes. I wasn't sure. Exactly. Well, that was so much fun. Mm hmm. Thanks for taking me through it. I'll see you next time. Yeah, get back to your knitting. Yeah, we'll do. Well, we did it. We burned another song and we hope you enjoyed it and danced around the fire. If you want to suggest a song or join our conversation. Find us on Instagram. We're at sick burns pod on twitter at at sick 80s or on Facebook as sick burns. And we'd love to get an email from you. Send it to us at burning the eighties@gmail.com and if you haven't yet gotten the message that we're desperate to interact with you but in a totally cool and standoffish way. Maybe this will do it. We also have a website and you should definitely use it. Visit Sick burns podcast.com to leave a comment or a voicemail. Ciao for now.