Cold War Chess & Show Tunes: One Night in Bangkok

 Cold war chess matches and show tunes collide in "One Night in Bangkok" by Murray Head. The song went to number one in many countries and topped out at #3 in May 1985 in the U.S. and Canada. The song was a single from the concept album “Chess” by Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus of ABBA (and Mama Mia fame) with lyrics by Tim Rice. It later became a musical, starring Murray Head.   

In the musical, Head plays “Freddie Trumper,” an American Chess master who is in Thailand to face off against his opponent from the USSR in a big chess match. If that sounds familiar, it’s because it was inspired by the 1972 Bobby Fischer/Boris Spassky match in Reykjavik.

In the song, Trumper is trying to stay focused on the match and not succumb to Bangkok’s many distractions. Listening to it with 2021 ears, it’s hard to miss the transphobic overtones or the way it hypersexualizes Asian women. If you were transfixed by the flute solo, you may have missed all that in 1985, but the Thai government didn’t. 

Check out the video.

Note, this song is not to be confused with Musical Chess by Burger King Illuminati.

Like the show? Buy us a coffee!

***AND***

Visit our website at www.sickburnspod.com to leave a comment or a voicemail!

Instagram @Sick_Burns_Pod

Twitter @Sick80s

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/SickBurnsPodcast

Email us at Burningthe80s@gmail.com

Editing by Ghost Label

Chapters

• 0:00 Chit Chat & Recommendations
• 18:32 Rate, review, subscribe!
• 21:29 Introducing the Song
• 43:29 The Verdict
• 57:57 The Mixtape

Transcript

Margaret: 0:00

Hi, how are you?' Elizabeth: Hi, Margret. I'm doing okay. How about you? I'm also doing okay. I'm not vaccinated yet, but other than that, I'm a I'm hanging in there are people in Ohio getting their vaccinations, like they should be, Oh yes, they are. Parents are vaccinated. My oldest man is getting vaccinated. Your old man, meaning your husband like my own and my old man. Just like us. Yup. Yeah. That's uh, that's exciting. Um, you know, I keep hearing about some of

Elizabeth: 0:36

the States and regions where people are not getting vaccinated, so they're opening up eligibility more and more and,

Margaret: 0:44

um,

Elizabeth: 0:45

Hopefully

Margaret: 0:46

more people will get it. I can't wait. And this idea that everyone will be eligible starting in may. I just really hope that comes to pass. And, um, and yet it's also sort of frightening to think about going back to life, like is exciting, but also, uh, I don't know. We're just so used to it that I don't know what it's going to be like. And it's no, yes. I don't know why I have these feelings of like, I don't want to say fear, but, uh, you know, like when you come out of someplace very dark and it's suddenly very light and you like have to cover your eyes, I feel like that's going to be like, yeah, Yeah,

Elizabeth: 1:24

I'm having like, pre-social anxiety actually. Like, am I going to be expected to go out, to eat with people? And what

Margaret: 1:34

will I talk about then? And

Elizabeth: 1:37

also at the same time, what if no one wants to go out to eat with me? You know, like I'm having all of the scenarios causing

Margaret: 1:46

problems for me, same here. And I don't I'm with you. I don't know what I'll talk to people about. I, especially since the big thing that we all talked about for several years is, um, you know, like life is so much more normal, normal now, quote, unquote normal in some ways. Uh, and, um, But luckily people will still be writing books and making, you know, TV shows and we'll go to movies again someday. And that I'm really looking forward to I'm looking forward

Elizabeth: 2:18

to a movie also. I don't even, I don't even think I went all that often before, like maybe a few times a year, but Oh,

Margaret: 2:26

it was apparently a massive treat. Yes, same. I cannot wait to there's that moment. Right? When the movie's beginning, when they turn the lights on and you kind of snuggled down and if you brought a treat or a snack, you can, or got one at the movie theater. I never just bring them myself. That's a totally against the rules. Um, can you see me? Yeah, I'd love them. And sometimes I bring a blanket and I snuggled, Oh, I do. They have those like recliners at the movie here near me and, Oh, it's greatest. I love it. And miss it. They are.

Elizabeth: 3:03

I do like that too, but there's a little part of me that finds them like disgustingly

Margaret: 3:09

gross. Yeah. And I did just because they are disgustingly grew up, but I never

Elizabeth: 3:15

thought that about movie, other movie seats, which are presumably as disgustingly gross as these, like, there's something about the recliner and like the fake leather and everything that makes it seem grocer. Like maybe because it seems like someone could have

Margaret: 3:28

sex on it or something. Oh, maybe, uh, Uh, like fart on it more or something. Is it just the idea that you've gotten a little too comfortable with a public space? Is that it? That might be maybe that's it? Yes. I mean, they're mostly like pleather or leather, so how you could fart on it. I don't know, because it would be very nice.

Elizabeth: 3:49

I'm going to try, but also the pleather seems like they could just like bleach them, but you know, like, yeah. Yeah. And maybe they do, but it always, I always feel a little bit like there's a film on

Margaret: 4:03

it, you know, and there probably is. But listen, if we have learned anything from the last year that there is no shame and bringing your own Clorox wipes places and wiping that shit down, and I am going to be wearing a mask for the rest of my life. Right. Uh, wherever I go, because like certainly airplanes and public transportation, I'm never going on that without wearing a mask. Cause every time I would be on an airplane, I get sick. Totally. And I'm just not gonna, I will not suffer the cold and flu season the way I have in the past.

Elizabeth: 4:39

Right. You know, I apparently like deaths from the flu are like bottomed out. There's like been none, you know, every year there's like a few thousand or something like that. And I think this year has been like in the single

Margaret: 4:52

digits. Well, I think that hopefully that will be one of the benefits. One of the silver linings to all of this. Yeah. And hand-washing yes. And hand-washing, hopefully people keep that up. Um, have you been watching anything interesting lately? I've been watching something I wanted to tell you about and I wonder if you watched it too. Uh, yeah. I

Elizabeth: 5:13

have some things to tell you about in terms of. Um, media, I have one more pandemic observation to make though. And that is that my neighbors and other people's neighbors still have Christmas decorations up. And it is almost St Patrick's day.

Margaret: 5:32

And so normally, well, in general, I don't actually

Elizabeth: 5:37

care. And so I'm more like puzzled by it because these are also like people who you wouldn't normally think of as the type of people who leave up Christmas decorations year

Margaret: 5:47

round.

Elizabeth: 5:48

And I thought it was just my street, but like everyone I've spoken to both who live in my town and even in other States have noticed the same phenomenon that the Christmas decorations

Margaret: 6:01

are still up. And once again, it is not even Valentine's day anymore. Like we are well out of the zone. I do. I just took mine down this week. Uh, not from the outside of your house. Yes. Five days ago, I took mine down. I marked the date and I apologized to my neighbors, but listen, we haven't had such bad weather here. The last couple of months, I was not about to go out there in the cold and snow and, and take them down. So I waited until we had a little bit of a warm up. And then I got out there when the snow was gone and I pulled them down and throw them out. And I said, sorry, sorry, neighbors who were all standing outside their house and the driveway watching kids play. And they were like, we just did the same. And my, my neighbor pointed to his front door. And he's like, do you note that I still have a Christmas wreath up? You don't need to apologize to me. Yes. Okay. So

Elizabeth: 7:00

everyone's doing it. Do you think, okay, now I have like a subject to interview on this topic. So the weather makes a lot of sense as an explanation. Um,

Margaret: 7:13

I mean, Hmm. No, I will also admit to you. I kept mine lit through February. Uh huh.

Elizabeth: 7:22

Yeah. Oh yeah. Some neighbors did that

Margaret: 7:24

too. Yeah. And then I unplugged them. I was like, okay, it's past my, my teenage daughter was like, shaming me. She's like, mom, the neighbors probably think we're crazy because you still have the lights on. But I was like, they're pretty. And they're making me happy. And she's like, but you don't even go anywhere. So you can't see them. Why do you, there was like, there's like a little bit of a Bush outside the kitchen window that had lights on it. And I said, when I'm making dinner and it's dark, I can see those lights and it makes me happy. And she was like, Oh,

Elizabeth: 7:58

so that was my other theory that people felt like they didn't have things to be happy about. And they were, and they're like read some lights, we're making them

Margaret: 8:06

feel happy. I can attest to that. And I also saw quite a bit of stuff on social media of people saying, and this was more in January people saying, leave your lights up because the frontline workers. Uh, especially medical workers who were really kind of missed the holidays. Didn't get a chance to enjoy the Christmas lights. And so leave them up for an extra month so that they can enjoy them. Who said that? I saw it on social media. Like I saw it on the nextdoor app. Now. I'm not saying that the nextdoor app is like a place I would validate points of view from, but, uh, because generally speaking, there's, there's like the level of crazy that is Twitter. And then you take that up a couple notches and you have the next door app, but I did see, it was like a meme, like a screenshot that was going around of like, leave your Christmas lights up your holiday lights up for, um, for the frontline workers. And it was also like a solidarity we're here for you. And this is my way of telling you. Yeah. So

Elizabeth: 9:13

you just gave me three legit reasons for all the U S that could all support each other, or even if they had one of them, then that would

Margaret: 9:21

be deed. Yeah. Um, well, but two was just like lack of motivation. Like I just didn't. I was just, yeah, but more so

Elizabeth: 9:31

than any other year. Right. Like you've never taken them down the slate in other years. Right.

Margaret: 9:35

Okay. Yeah. So definitely definite, uh, lack of motivation, but I would place that, but you know, further down the list, low, my other reasons. Well,

Elizabeth: 9:48

I feel quite gratified. I'm glad that now in terms of things

Margaret: 9:52

watching, um, yeah,

Elizabeth: 9:55

so what

Margaret: 9:56

you go first, you said you had something well, I've been watching Allen V Farrow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, which I fell into the trap of HBO max by watching the flight attendant, which was sort of there, I think there, uh, no it's, um, Kaley Cuoco.

Elizabeth: 10:16

Okay. Ooh, not to be confused with Joey Butterfield Loco,

Margaret: 10:20

which is, which is my preferred pronunciation for her, her last name, because do you remember that Saturday night live, sketch the house of I just had this conversation with somebody and the kids were around and they were like, who's butterfly. And I was like, Oh, the long Island Lolita, let me tell you the children, not the long Island Lolita. And then they were like, horrified. And then I told them about John Wayne Bobbitt and Lorena Bobbitt. And they were like, Oh, and I had so much fun. I was like, there's so many things that happened before you born. We're born crazy things, bonkers things. Yes. Um, and they were like, testimo mother tell us,

Elizabeth: 11:12

I bet. I bet

Margaret: 11:13

they love that. Yep. So, um, yeah, we we've been diving into that, but so I got kind of hooked on HBO, max from watching the flight attendant. And then, um, Allen versus Pharaoh is the other big, um, show that's been there lately. So working my way through that.

Elizabeth: 11:32

Well, I read a, um, newspaper column about. Um, Allen versus Pharaoh and they mentioned Joey Buttafuoco in it, actually.

Margaret: 11:44

So why and what was the point? Well,

Elizabeth: 11:47

the person writing. So as Manhattan, the movie, the focus of the

Margaret: 11:52

documentary. Yeah. Um, it's a big part of the second episode. Got it.

Elizabeth: 11:57

So the column was focusing on Manhattan and it pointed out and it was talking about, and I've read a lot of things like this before, and I gobbled them up about how we were all under this like collective delusion that Woody Allen was cool and sexy for so many decades. And how the same. Yeah. It was like the, basically the same year, maybe within the same few months that the Woody Allen's SUNY Previn story broke and the Amy Fisher and Joey Buttafuoco, I guess you just say Joey Butterfield goat, but I always think of

Margaret: 12:38

the masterpiece

Elizabeth: 12:40

theater, um, and Jerry Seinfeld. Um, dating a high school senior. Yes. And how differently they were all perceived because the butter Fuko situation was this like low class long Island dude, but everyone was still used to thinking of Woody. Allen is like the height of

Margaret: 13:04

urbane. Oh, sophistication,

Elizabeth: 13:07

sophistication, and so forth. The end. Um, and Jerry Seinfeld of course was like ascending the like echelons of fame and popularity. And so just the, the article was just pointing out the, and then D and then discussing, uh, forget which Hemingway is it? Mariel, Hemingway, who was the star of Manhattan and how she was like 16 at the time of filming. So it was just juxtaposing those things happening at the same time as all. So

Margaret: 13:37

interesting. That's very interesting. Yes. Well, the thing that is. That really the thing I appreciate about it. And the thing that I think a lot of the criticism or the reviews of the show online have pointed out is they have been telling this story now for a couple of decades and suddenly people are paying attention to it in a different kind of way in a way that substantiates or believes, um, Dylan, Dylan Farrow's, uh, claims. And, um, and the first couple episodes go into this, like you're saying the, it. The kind of like, why did we all think, what are y'all in was so great, you know? And, and he, and mirror MEO were really like, Oh, such a couple. And so like, urbane is absolutely the right way to phrase it. And they had this very modern relationship where they were like together and they had kids together, but they live separately across central park and she tells stories about like, they would turn their lights on and off so that they could see, you know, that was like, you know, a little, like, I love you to each other. Cause they could see it. And um, or sometimes she'd like, hang a red towel out of her window, which meant like, I love you a lot, like extra, can you see this? It's even bigger than turning the light on, which is kind of sweet and exciting to picture that happening across central park. But, um, but the. It is just boggling to me that anybody could find him attractive. Like I, I don't get it at all. Um, and, but then it had me thinking about, I mean, me, uh, clearly was in love with him and she seemed most attracted to will a, the fact that he was Woody Allen. So he had like a persona that, um, she was attracted to. But I think that she also really was attracted to his intelligence and that idea of I wrote it down. Cause I can never think of the word sapiosexual reality that you can only be attracted to someone who's highly intelligent. Okay. And I suppose if you were a person who. Felt that they were sapiosexual then maybe you'd get on board with Woody Allen back in the day. Yeah. But he, yeah, but that's

Elizabeth: 16:14

some of the things I have read are more about how he, some, maybe he's intelligent, but like that he performed intelligence and like formed what our idea of Sapio sexuality. Is, or what, you know, because did you watch Woody Allen films when you were a kid? Did you get into any? No. Well, I definitely like S like swallowed it all hook, line and sinker. Like, you should want to be in Manhattan,

Margaret: 16:44

you know, ugly guys

Elizabeth: 16:45

who are funny and smart are sexy. And, um, and it's cool because he also like in Manhattan and I it's been many years since I saw the movie, but the column reminded me of some details. You know, he like quite poo-poos popular culture and crass commercialism. And so he seems like a real upholder of values, you know? And when I was. 15 or 16 or whatever. I was like, yes, that is, that is sophisticated adulthood. And you were like cool, old sweaters and you walk through central park musing about things. And even when the dude is ugly, the woman still has to be beautiful and the conventional way. And it's totally fine if she's a teenager and he's in his thirties because that's cool. And, um, yeah, I like, I just completely bought all of it and it's and one of the more interesting columns I read it, might've been by AOL. Scott was about how he defined this idea of like masculinity for people, our age and older basically. And I thought. And I thought he was hilarious and people like, I exchanged mix tapes with friends that had like bits of standup routine, Woody Allen, standup routines, and, um, you

Margaret: 18:05

know,

Elizabeth: 18:05

and I

Margaret: 18:07

like, yes, everything about it. I completely bought well, I and I, to like buy into that idea of urbane, olden, older man, sophisticated with great taste in music and art and books and film and as yeah, yeah. Um, but physically, yeah. Oh no.

Elizabeth: 18:33

Oh, I know he's disgusting, but that was, but that was like his alibi or like his

Margaret: 18:39

cover, you know? I, yeah. Yes. Covers covers a great word for it. Um, because it says to the world I'm not. I'm not about, you know, shallow appearances. I care about depth and substance and, um, it just, it's so strange and, um, it just gets more and more disturbing. Uh, but it also, it is a type, right? Like you like, and Jerry Seinfeld, I don't know that there would be a Jerry Seinfeld if there wasn't a Woody Allen, nor would there be because, because Larry, David. Totally. It was like cut from the exact same cloth, um, and this like neuroses and, um, would we even know what that word was? If it wasn't for it? He is like synonymous with neuroses and of like poking fun at them himself, which is Jerry Seinfeld's shtick and Larry David shtick. Um, it's just so, um, disturbing and interesting. And, um, anyway, it's a very engrossing story. Um, but, but also really disturbing, disturbing.

Elizabeth: 20:01

Yeah. I really want to see it, but my husband. Well, not there's some things he won't watch and it drives me nuts. And that might one of them is the crown, which I'm left all alone. Yeah. And, uh, but that might be another one, but maybe I could talk him

Margaret: 20:17

into it. I don't know you and I could just have a Netflix party and watch

Elizabeth: 20:21

it. I would do that even though it's HBO, max, it'll still be called a Netflix,

Margaret: 20:26

but no, no, no. The crown is on Netflix. Yes. The crown I met the, um, Allen, Allen and Farrow. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 20:33

Yeah. That's great. I'm watching the crown backwards cause I couldn't resist the Diana season. And so I had to watch that first. And so then I'm just like working my way back.

Margaret: 20:42

Oh listen. Oh, good. Have you seen it already? Yeah. Diana season of the crown. Oh yes. I went through it fast. Oh my God. Yeah. And I feel like that

Elizabeth: 20:53

shaped. Entirely Oprah's questions for

Margaret: 20:57

currently. It was so weird. You can see she was having trouble telling the truth from what she knows of his family, from the show, which we all have that problem. And of course he's like, well, of course that's all fiction, whatever. I don't know. I mean, certainly like the conversations have been, had to be made up, but the plot points are all history at this point. Totally. And like a

Elizabeth: 21:27

lot of the conversations are even part of historical wreck. Like I'll hear conversations, then I'll be like, Oh yeah, I remember reading

Margaret: 21:32

that in vanity fair. Yeah. Oh. Especially with the Diana and Andrew Morgan stuff. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Which also I was blown away to hear him say that he seen some of the crown, which I don't know how you could resist, especially the. Well, first of all, if somebody made a movie, a TV show or a movie about my parents and I grew up terribly missing one of them, how could I resist seeing someone be that person? I it's so good too. That's good actor. Oh, and it's heartbreaking. The season is heartbreaking, but even if someone made a movie about my grandmother and hurt being in her twenties. Oh my gosh. Totally. It's like it's yeah. Extension of ego or something. Like, I would want to know those people better and to see a drama desertion of their early lives together, or like the part where grandma and grandpa fell in love how credit resistant.

Elizabeth: 22:40

Right. I know. Yeah. I know. Well, I, I don't know. Yes. I think that's a good point. I mean, surely they have people like pre watching it for them and saying like you should, or you should, you know, I would hope,

Margaret: 22:53

I love that they have people watching it bullshit. The people that work in the palace raised home at midnight to watch it drop on Netflix. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 23:04

Well, um, why did we start talking about that in the

Margaret: 23:07

first place? Because your spouse won't watch the crown or,

Elizabeth: 23:13

yeah. So I have one other thing to tell you that we watched, which is related to the eighties. Um, and that is the movie miracle about the hockey

Margaret: 23:25

game. Did you ever see that movie? Yes. It's one of the movies that's like stored on my phone. I downloaded it and I watch it with my son and I, I love

Elizabeth: 23:35

it. Yeah, it was good there. It was quite good. And, um, yeah. Well, I think number one though, there's one woman in the hall Bovie,

Margaret: 23:45

and there's zero people of color. And even though the coach at one point is like, we

Elizabeth: 23:50

show that people have such diverse backgrounds can come together, you know? And I'm like, yeah, I guess the suburbs of Minneapolis are totally different than the suburbs

Margaret: 23:58

of Boston. And yet they got along. But, um, but the

Elizabeth: 24:05

other thing that was funny about watching it with my son who,

Margaret: 24:09

who could not, he's not

Elizabeth: 24:10

like that into sports. And I just knew that I had read how good the movie was. And so when it was pizza nights, so what else are we going to do? Um,

Margaret: 24:21

was trying to explain to him the Soviet union. Oh yeah. Cause like, you know, they're, they do all the

Elizabeth: 24:29

like culture stuff at the beginning. They sort of do a montage, like reminding us of the

Margaret: 24:33

eighties, but, but then like the game has coming and I was like, This was not

Elizabeth: 24:40

just an Olympic hockey game, which already is a big deal when she understood. But so then I was like, so Soviet union, it was like this group of countries. And they were like our total enemy. Like

Margaret: 24:51

I did the whole like Colt or the primer on the cold war for your son. And we really

Elizabeth: 24:59

were taught, taught like that they were evil and they were bad people. And, and there was this whole thing about sports and like all these legends about how the athletes, they are like, didn't even know how to read, because all

Margaret: 25:11

they did was like eat, drink, and sleep,

Elizabeth: 25:13

whatever sport they had to take. Like I had, and there was like nuclear

Margaret: 25:17

armament. Oh my God. I had the

Elizabeth: 25:21

hole. And he was like,

Margaret: 25:22

uh, like, so unimpressed with any of it, because I asked him Ben to like recount to my parents on

Elizabeth: 25:30

a, you know, family

Margaret: 25:32

weekend zoom call or whatever, what I told you yes. Where they very impressed to, to get it right. Uh, he got it mostly, right. It was so like such an unenthusiastic recitation. And, but because they spent their childhood like Dunkin covering their school desks and everything, like, it's just, it

Elizabeth: 25:56

just made me realize there's no, I feel like that even more, maybe more than like Catholicism or Cleveland newness, like.

Margaret: 26:07

Ha is like utterly in my constitution. Like, so defining, having the

Elizabeth: 26:13

bad, bad, other bad guys of the Soviet union and you know, my kid doesn't have, there's not, there's various evil forces and there's bad things in the world, but there's

Margaret: 26:25

not like this immense existential bad. Yes,

Elizabeth: 26:32

yes, yes. And so that's like, so I don't know. I grow up with like a big other in my head and he doesn't, and I wonder how

Margaret: 26:41

that's, you know, mostly how it turns out. Okay. Are you forgetting about like ISIS and stuff? Because I know

Elizabeth: 26:48

they're bad. Yeah, totally. And they're even on the rise again, but it's not the

Margaret: 26:52

massive constant. Oh, well, yes. You're right, because they were an empire. Yes. This other set of nuclear weapons to add us. Yes. Yeah know, have not speaking of which, have you ever seen the movie 13 days? Which is about the Cuban missile crisis. That's another one, boy. No, it's terrifying. I mean, you and I didn't live through it as a little bit before our time, but you realize just how close everybody came and whatever. And you're like, Holy shit, totally. This could have been very different. Um, you know, a fun fact and sometimes you like to teach. I always say, I don't know anybody famous, but then sometimes you tease me when I bring these things up. I met Mike

Elizabeth: 27:41

has another friend of mine. Yeah. So, yes. Number one, on every single episode, you talk about meeting someone famous, but let's hear your

Margaret: 27:52

micro Etzioni story. Well, again, this is when I was working for the big hamburger company and we were at the conference, the annual conference for all the franchisees and they. Um, and he was the, like a speaker and because I was putting, producing the meeting and putting it on and, um, was in charge of photography. He was, he did a couple of photos with people backstage. And so I was, you know, like, okay, well you're on in five minutes, Mr. Rusconi, that kind of thing. And so I got my picture with him and I said, Oh, you went to BU I went to BC. Oh yeah. So they were rumbling now. Uh, I don't know. Well, he learned that people

Elizabeth: 28:31

of diverse backgrounds can

Margaret: 28:32

nevertheless get along. So one thing that the miracle on ice taught us it's that people from opposite ends of Commonwealth Avenue can even get along exactly the way exactly.

Elizabeth: 28:48

You know, a member of that team died quite recently. And I think it was tragically. And I think that an and it was not only a member of that team, but I think it was the guy that had the assist to

Margaret: 28:59

a rezone, Oh, slipped a goal. He died.

Elizabeth: 29:04

I couldn't quite tell, but he was living in a mental health facility. And I think the common wisdom

Margaret: 29:09

was that he had traumatic brain injury from, from hockey.

Elizabeth: 29:13

From hockey and his life did not turn out. So as great as microbione is like gallivanting around the country, getting paid to talk, which is

Margaret: 29:22

how my other

Elizabeth: 29:23

friend met him also. And, um, anyway, it's just a timeline. It just so happens that somebody he died recently. Yeah. I believe

Margaret: 29:35

was his last name. yeah. Well, that's an interesting, um, uh, anecdote that you bring up because there is a tie in to the song that I wanted to talk to you about today. It's, uh, it's a great segue actually, because the song we're going to talk about today is one night in Bangkok by Murray head, let's take a listen, do the dune. Um, so do you know much about w what this song is from. Almost nothing. The only thing I have to say

Elizabeth: 30:13

about it is related to the singer, but I don't know anything about the song and I'm very

Margaret: 30:18

excited to learn. Um, well it's from a musical, um, a musical called chess. Oh, I've heard of chess. Yeah. Musical chess. Uh, and, um, take that

Elizabeth: 30:33

King, take that pun. Like, do they, is it about playing a chess?

Margaret: 30:38

No. Okay. It is about, um, it's a musical about a cold war chess match between an American and a Russian. Oh. And it was kind of inspired by the Bobby Fischer, uh, world championship. When he defeated, I had to write this down, Boris Spassky of the USSR and they played in Reykjavik and Iceland and it was like, It symbolized this big miracle on ice, like the miracle on ice, another game, um, do do late sixties, early seventies. Oh, 1972. Um, and then with, you know, miracle on ice was what th the 1980 Olympics, the 1980 Olympics in Lake Placid, New York, New York, uh, there

Elizabeth: 31:29

also exists no women or people of color so

Margaret: 31:32

that it was true to life in Lake Placid. Yeah. I'm just joking. Oh, it's like, there are women there, there I saw, uh, so chess, the album was a concept album and then they turned it into a musical. But do you know who wrote this musical? No I do. You said, you know, nothing. Um, the guys from ABA wrote it. Benny Anderson and Bjorn, LV chess wrote chess. And then later they went on to write mama Mia, the, the musical and later TV sh uh, mute movie, starring Meryl Streep. Yes. Yes. So they wrote Amanda, what's her name? Seyfried.

Elizabeth: 32:20

Yeah, she might play you in a movie someday.

Margaret: 32:22

Oh, I could, I could be so lucky. Um, so okay. Born wrote, uh, wrote chest and then the lyrics were done by Tim rice, who, um, who is, uh, a famous lyricist who often collaborates with Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim rice. So they wrote this song, which so Murray had was the guy who was in the musical. And he's in the original cast recording, which is what this song is from. Is he

Elizabeth: 32:52

the, um, does he play the American or the Russian chess

Margaret: 32:54

player please? The American chess player. Okay. A guy by the last name of Trumper, which is also kind of funny at this point. Um, so he also played, so his name's Murray had, he was a British actor and singer and he also had. Um, a radio hit because he was in Jesus Christ, superstar, the original Jesus Christ superstar. And he played Judas Iscariot, and he sang, um, superstar on that. And that came a hit on the radio. That's the one that's like, every time I look at you, a donut understand things you do to get so out of hand. Um,

Elizabeth: 33:38

yeah, so he had a record of, um, starring and musicals and bringing their songs to the hit,

Margaret: 33:45

which happens like there was that song from hair. Um, let the sunshine that, um, dimension and sometimes

Elizabeth: 33:54

it misses the Johnny of the age.

Margaret: 33:58

Yes. Yep. That both songs from here. Um, so yeah, so Marie had is the guy who sings it and fun fact, his brother Anthony had played Giles on Buffy. That's what I was

Elizabeth: 34:12

going to contribute. So I have nothing. I have nothing

Margaret: 34:15

more to say, Oh, well, I didn't know that until I researched this.

Elizabeth: 34:19

Anthony had yes. So

Margaret: 34:21

did you watch Buffy? Never. Once that passed me by, I was busy raising a colicky baby and I missed the whole thing. Right.

Elizabeth: 34:31

So I believe it's on Netflix or Hulu now. And I got to say. You might, I think it holds up and

Margaret: 34:37

you might return to it. And it is on my blessing. He says, it's the best TV show ever. I think it would be up my alley. It

Elizabeth: 34:46

would totally be up your alley and it's just plain good. And we tried to rewatch it recently with my son. I think he's still a little young for it, um, at especially gets like heavy later in the season, but yeah. Um, because it's

Margaret: 34:59

scary or sad. No. Um,

Elizabeth: 35:03

well, yeah, so I guess scary in the sense that they just always have vampires and they die, you know? Um, and so the special effects. There's special effects with people turning into vampires. Sure. But later it gets heavy into like issues for young adults and growing up

Margaret: 35:23

and

Elizabeth: 35:24

family, and also nine 11 happened while it was filming. I think there's like two or three seasons after it. And you can kind of tell which season that is

Margaret: 35:33

interesting. Um, but

Elizabeth: 35:35

they, yeah, so there's like sex and love and parents and like just some sort of heavy issues that they do incredibly well. And, um, and Giles is great in it. And he, and I just saw Anthony Head in. Ted last out as

Margaret: 35:53

you watch that show. No, but I would like to cause I'm a big Sudokus Oh

Elizabeth: 35:58

gosh, it's super fun. And it's like a nice, it's like nice. You know, it's funny as hell, but it's not mean, you know? Um, and anyway, Anthony had has a, uh, I guess you'd call it a minor role in it and I was really happy

Margaret: 36:14

to see him. Okay. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled on those ones. Yeah. He's also in, um, little Britain, which I hear good things about. Yes. I've seen that they have, they might have some. Episodes that are

Elizabeth: 36:29

cancelable as the kids say these days, they might have dealt with some issues with some

Margaret: 36:35

insensitivity, but I do remember

Elizabeth: 36:39

laughing at many episodes of it also.

Margaret: 36:42

I don't remember. I'll check that out. I haven't seen it. Yeah. Um, w so weirdly this show tune went to, um, a number one in lots of countries in the U S it hit, um, number three and May, 1985. It was, uh, it was, it was a big hit across the world. Um, and so if you don't know that it's about chess, it can be a very confusing song. And you'd be like, what the hell is this song about? But once you know that it's about chess, You it's a whole different layer because then you can understand some of the wordplay he's using and yeah. Once you know,

Elizabeth: 37:26

it's about the game or

Margaret: 37:28

about the musical. Well, just hearing that it's from a musical, you're like, Oh, I get it. There's a lot of contexts that I don't get from just this one song. But the fact that, you know, it's about the game of chess, a lot of the lyrics start to make more sense. So the it's about it's about a chess match in Bangkok. So, um, what they're doing there is they're having a big chess match and it's being set in, in Bangkok. And they're always in these like, you know, international city,

Elizabeth: 37:59

right. Uh, because it's the cold war and they have to meet in like diplomatically

Margaret: 38:04

proved places, their world championships, and so much like the Olympics. Um, they, you know, they have, they have them all over. They have them in, um, Isolating or Hastings or, or this place. Yeah. Can I ask you, do you play chess? I do not know me

Elizabeth: 38:25

either. And I feel that it is like very counter to every other way that my brain works. Like I'll never be able to play it. Um, I really have no desire

Margaret: 38:36

to think that far ahead.

Elizabeth: 38:37

Yes. I think of it in the say someone just told me recently since today is PI day that they knew a teenager who had memorized PI to like 200 digits or something. And I was like, there's nothing in my being that wishes to memorize digits. Like

Margaret: 38:52

there's no. Yeah,

Elizabeth: 38:53

yeah. And I feel the same way about chess. Um, you know, respect to people who play it. But when you

Margaret: 38:59

say like, like what, Oh, the

Elizabeth: 39:02

song is actually about

Margaret: 39:03

chess and that like, and then I'm

Elizabeth: 39:05

thinking in my head, like, is there any lyrics about boring nerds or is there any lyrics about like.

Margaret: 39:13

Fuckin, you know, taking her back or shapes. No. However, part of the thing that I think makes this an interesting song to cover right now is because jazz is such a big deal because of the queen scam. But yeah. Did you see that? No, we've talked about it before. Um, because I told you the funny anecdote that my son was like, that's my favorite opening move. And I was like, what is he Queens gambit? Oh, I didn't know that a gambit. Yeah. Uh, I had no clue, but I will tell you, um, I, they are making a musical about the Queens gambit. Oh my God. Yes. And so, um, don't move there, move over there. Well, the funny thing about it is like two years ago, there was this sketch group called, um, burger King Illuminati, and they did a little like four song musical about chess. It's called. Musical chess, not to be confused with chess, the musical and its four guys and two are dressed up in black and Toor dressed in white and they put on hats that look like the chess pieces and the songs. So like these are the rules of chess. That's how I got a musical for you. It exists. I will link it in the show notes that is moved diagonally. We bump into each other. We can only move in the shape of an L it's it. And that makes me never, ever want to play chess because none of it makes any song and dance. But that's not what this musical is about by Bjorn and Benny. Um, this is about a chess match and in played in Bangkok during the height of the cold war against an American and, uh, a Soviet. So, um, I will tell you that a couple of interesting things to me about the song and number one, about two minutes in there is a killer flute solo, and I play the flute in the, in the school band in 1985. When this came out, I was in the school band playing the flute and I used to. Have fun, impressing people, making friends and influencing people in the band by doing that move. And I could play like four or five notes from the song from that solo. And I, it was very thrilling to me. And totally, I will also just say, because I love to name drop Joe Russo. The director of the Avengers was in the band with me. So he might have heard my sick flute skills as I also have the rest of development. Very same. Yes. Wow. I know. Um, so, Oh, there's another famous person you're talking about. Just nodding, just noting. Exactly. Um, so the flute pillow is one of my favorites, but the, the things get really interesting when you talk about the lyrics, because they're describing Bangkok in the context of a chess match. So the guy like in the plot of the musical he's. Trying to make it seem like so Bangkok well-known for its sex trade. Right? It's a major thing there. I don't want to say industry, but it's a, it's a major thing there. I think it counts as an industry. I mean, it's does, although it's not taxed. So if it's not counted towards the GDP or whatever, can you call it an industry? I don't know. I don't know. No, but it's making

Elizabeth: 42:53

me giving me the willies to talk about, well, in the, because I'm thinking of the involuntary

Margaret: 42:58

participants and there's plenty of that. Um, so the character is really kind of talking about like, yes, I'm in this exciting city, but he like ridicules that. Cause he's like, I'm above that. I'm here for the intellectual stimulation.

Elizabeth: 43:14

Get my kicks above the waistline

Margaret: 43:17

shine. That's exactly it. So he's saying, well, everybody is here, reveling in the sex that Bangkok offers. I'm not going to participate because I'm more, um, more intellectual than that. Yeah. Um, back to Woody Allen, uh, his holier than now intellectual ism. So, uh, interestingly, the, um, the Thai government did not care for this song. Uh, in fact, they have something called the mass communications organization and they banned the song in 1985. And was it because it was like assuming Bangkok was

Elizabeth: 43:59

this sex place

Margaret: 44:01

and they don't. Yes. And, uh, quote, lyrics the lyrics cause misunderstanding about Thai society and show disrespect toward Buddhism, which is the national religion of Thailand. Uh, ha um, So a couple of the shout outs I'll help you I'll interpret the song for you. So they mentioned Yule Brenner, and, um, our listeners may not know who that is, but he played the King of Siam and the musical, the King and I, which was a big deal in 1956. And it was like, A couple months before his death, that this song came out, he famously died of lung cancer. He was a heavy smoker. And in the last couple of months of his death, he did lots of campaigning, um, uh, against, uh, cigarette smoking, um, sort of thing I am being the former name of Thailand is Thailand's former name. Yes. So, um, they mentioned that in, they mentioned Siam. SIAMS going to be the witness to the ultimate test of cerebral fit. Yes. Oh, Oh. Which is

Elizabeth: 45:05

where the chess mat

Margaret: 45:06

is the matchup to me more than what a muddy old river or reclining Buddha. So that river that runs through Bangkok and Buddhas that are found in the temples all around, um, all around Bangkok. Um, and. He also mentioned the Tyrolean spa. The Tyrolean spa has chess boys in it. Okay. That's also mentioning a chess match that was held in the two roll region of Italy. And then he mentioned Iceland, the Philippines in Hastings, and these were also places that big chess matches were ha were held in. Uh, the interesting thing is there's like this undercurrent of transphobia in the song that maybe escapes people. But, um, he, he, so he mentioned, um, I'd let you watch, I would invite you, but the Queens we use would not excite you. Okay. That's one reference. I'll explain in a minute. And then secondly, he, they, the chorus says you'll find a God and every golden cloister. And if you're lucky than the gods, she. Ah, this is a reference to the transgender community in Bangkok. So the, so let me just break down this idea that like finding a God and every golden cloister. So cloister is like a monastic, uh, like a temple and they're golden they're they're gilded, they're they're gold in Thailand. And, um, and the monks, the Buddhist monks are the keepers of the temples. And so also we know, like we just said, Thailand has this booming sex work industry. It's known as the sex capital of Asia. And, um, interestingly, I was reading that a lot of scholars think that that reputation is mostly because there were like thousands of us soldiers who on RNR leave, visited Bangkok during the Vietnam war. Um, and that, that. You know, economics, there was a, there was a need. And so, um, there was cause to fill it opportunity to fill it. Um, but interestingly, there's like a relationship between sexual sex workers there and the temples. And there's this like reciprocal relationship between the Buddhist monks and the sex workers and the sex workers kind of hang out around the temples and then they pay off arms or make donations when they call them making merit, they give money to the monks and the temples who then improve their karma, like make up for the fact that they're

Elizabeth: 47:48

yes. They're about sex

Margaret: 47:52

morality. Yes. Okay. Yes. That's generally thought of to be immoral, but by paying this, I don't want to call it tithing. It's not the appropriate word, but like by paying alms, you can improve your karma and. Um, so there is a large population of within this, the sex work industry of transgendered females. And, um, they're known as I'm not going to pronounce this right. Freeing or , um, which is a gender identity used by some people in Thailand. Um, usually like what we would call transgender women or maybe intersex people. And, um, interestingly, um, there's a lot of activism going on in this space right now, the community is working to, um, basically, um, it's a legal right now. Gender change, gender reassignment surgery is illegal still in Thailand. And so that they're working to change that. Um, so that helps you understand the line of, um, you'll find a God in every golden cloister. And if you're lucky than the gods, as she. Right. Um, and they also mentioned that girls are set up in the Somerset moms suite. And so there's this famous hotel there called the Oriental hotel and they have sweets named after a famous writers. And Somerset mom was, is a famous writer. He wrote, um, yes of human bondage and he was a spy for the British government. And he spent a lot of time like in India and Asia and places like that. And, um, so anyways, got a fancy suite named after him. So that's why they mentioned him there. So it. The lyrics make like no sense, unless you think about them carefully understand that it's about chess and stuff like that. So, and as you might imagine, if you've ever seen the video, it's like on a chess board, right. And it's people dancing on a chess board and he's sitting at a chess board and then there's lots of imagery of ver like there's lots of crowding and lots of slums and Bangkok shots of that as well. Um, yeah. And

Elizabeth: 50:17

so it sounds like the whole song is meant to like, and maybe with the video. Contributes to this, like mental, like, um, counter pose, like order and like intellectual illness with like very base messy.

Margaret: 50:33

Yes. That is the backstage of the story. Yes, it is. Everybody else is here to get their rocks off, but me I'm above that. I'm here for the chest. I'm, you know, existing on a, on a higher plane than these folks. Yeah. So what

Elizabeth: 50:50

makes a hard man humble, like losing it chess or getting beat up and

Margaret: 50:55

mugged or know? I don't know. Maybe it just, um, rhymed well for Tim rice. Yeah. Right. Uh, because you feel bad about yourself for plunging, you know, into the, the offerings. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 51:16

What about the angel

Margaret: 51:17

walking next to me? I don't know. The angel walking next to me, the devil walk. I mean, I guess it's like moral orality, right? Like he's saying about the choices you made. I feel I can feel an angel walking next to me, or I can feel the devil sliding up to me the different ways that he said in the chorus. Um, so it's about temptation. Yeah, I could be about, or I could get laid given to the temptations of the pleasures and the delights that Bangkok offers. Yeah, which, um, you know, in this song, at least I don't think there's any references to any of that besides sex talks about massage parlors. So you better go back to your bars, your temples, your massage. Yeah. So he's really just saying, like, there's all this debauchery out there drinking gambling women, but, um, I'm above that because as you say, I get my kicks above the waistline sunshine. Yeah. Uh huh. But

Elizabeth: 52:22

surely he's, I, I mean, I haven't seen the, um, chest, the musical,

Margaret: 52:30

but um, not musical Jess

Elizabeth: 52:37

but, um, does he, do you know the plot of the musical.

Margaret: 52:43

Yeah, it's the showdown. Yes. It's the showdown between the American and the Soviet and the American Freddie Trumper. He comes in with a woman, like, you know, he brings his girlfriend or whatever, and then she leaves him, him for the Russian. Okay. Do you know?

Elizabeth: 53:03

And so obviously this is like the number where they're showing the like inner battle of the protagonist, the Western player, like somehow wrestling with his nature somehow

Margaret: 53:17

is that had gas. I think it just is meant to set up, um, This set the scene for it tells you something about his character and it sets the scene for the city that they're in for this, for this match. Okay. But it's not all like the whole musical is not all in, in Bangkok. Um, there, there are matches other places too. Okay. So we ha so let's talk about the verdict, which is a common segment here where we discuss what we think about this stuff. Right. Um, I. Have, I mean, I think it's clear that I'm a big fan of the song. I have always loved it because it's show tunes. It's got everything. It's got all my favorite things, even a game, I don't know or understand, but yeah, I agree to that is great. I feel smarter because I could sing along, but I don't really know how to play chess. I will say I had the album on vinyl and there are a couple really beautiful love songs too. And album,

Elizabeth: 54:33

you don't mean the musical?

Margaret: 54:35

The outline originally. Oh, okay. Okay. So I know a lot of the. Songs, but I've never seen the musical. So you have to do your best to try and piece together what the hell is happening if you have ever seen the show, but you're listening to the cast recording. Right? So, um, I, I'm a big fan of a couple of, uh, other songs. Um, there's one called heaven, helped my heart, which is really beautiful. Elaine, Paige is, uh, is a famous, um, Broadway in West end singer. And she's in this, uh, on this album. Um, they, there's a duet called I know him so well, which went to number one in the UK. So like there's some hits on this album, even though the musical itself wasn't like famous, but because of the musical itself, wasn't famous. I don't know that many people could explain to you the plot. Yeah. Also, they changed the musical plot from the West end version in London. And then when they did it in Broadway, they changed it a lot. So in the British version, Freddie Trumper was like there to be the analyst for the chess game. But then in the American version, he's a player of, of he's playing the chess game. So it's and did the

Elizabeth: 55:56

Alba guys

Margaret: 55:57

write the plot? Like they, yeah, one and then they wised up and they were like, for our next one, maybe let's just figure out how to put a story around songs we've already written. Right. Which is the point of mommy. I took a note. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because the student do well, and I think it's because a. The plot doesn't isn't a good one. And me, I mean, cold war tensions, not withstanding. And then B the songs are kind of all over the place. Like there, there's no clear musical style. Like you listened to Jews, Jesus Christ, superstar. There's some pre every song sort of feels like it fits with the other songs. This album is all over the place. So. And also,

Elizabeth: 56:49

because I was going to say, maybe people don't like stories about chess, but they all loved the Queen's gambit and everyone loved searching for Bobby Fischer also, you know,

Margaret: 56:59

but yeah, but I don't know enough people. It's not very accessible as a theme for a song, you know? Cause not, I don't know, it should look it up. I don't know how many people know how to play chess. Um, but I, but uh, maybe you start with like the musical chess, these other rules of chess by the burger King Illuminati, and then you move your way to Queens gambit and then you can end here. But I really having like thought about it. There's some elements of like, This, and I think it's too, because of what's happening currently in the world with all the anti-Asian hate that's going on now, it feels much more obvious to me that there is an undertone CRO flake, sexualization of Asian women or fetishes fetishization of, and it makes me uncomfortable. And you know, I've been reading too that like Asian women have been, um, are often like exoticized and. Sexualized. And it leads to these stereotypes of them being submissive and hyper-sexual, and that leads to intimate partner violence. And I actually read that, um, 40 to 60% of Asian women report experiencing physical or sexual violence with an intimate partner in their lifetime. The highest of any minority by far, probably. Yeah. And, um, so I think I give it a thumbs down because it's really perpetuating and re remember like the song and the lyrics are written by some Swedish guys and a British guy, um, uh, you know, colonizers, both. The Vikings invaded Britain and then Britain invaded everybody else. And it just feels kind of icky to me. Um, especially like the line about if you're lucky than the gods of Xi, because as we've discussed in the funky cold Medina episode, could there be anything worse than, you know, then, um, finding out that your sex worker is, um, uh, not the gender that you expected?

Elizabeth: 59:18

I guess. So, although I think we also discussed like fair enough that you want to have sex with certain people and not other certain people, you know, but, um, I'll just tell you, I, when I meet a white guy, who's married to an Asian woman from Asia. I judged the man negatively. Is

Margaret: 59:38

that I don't, is that correct? Well, I don't know. I do think that there's like the word fetishization there. It's. There is a thing as Asian, such a thing as Asian fetish. And, um, and I think that we have those stereotypes in our head of, um, this idea of Asian women as being more submissive and hyper-sexualized, and it's found, you know, it's evidenced in little cues like this. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:00:10

And all those statistics you just said only support my prejudice about those men.

Margaret: 1:00:15

I'm afraid that we're making some assumptions that perhaps that is the draw that they prefer. It's like a power. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe we should find some and ask them. Like

Elizabeth: 1:00:34

I asked, like I found someone who had their Christmas decorations up until recently and asked them

Margaret: 1:00:40

what's at the root of this for

Elizabeth: 1:00:41

you. Yeah. Yeah. That's a super good

Margaret: 1:00:43

idea. But I I'll tell you, um, I know plenty of Asian women who are the very first thing from submissive. Oh. So this is like the thing that's so annoying about stereotypes. Yes. Is that, um, they're not always right. And it can be super fucking annoying to the people who are judged by them. Yeah. And more than annoying, possibly dangerous in this. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:01:13

Yeah. So do you think that the. Song

Margaret: 1:01:18

like

Elizabeth: 1:01:19

exoticizes Asian women just by virtue of its existence or is there some specific lyric you're thinking of?

Margaret: 1:01:25

Yeah, I think it's how he's, uh, the, the way that the city is portrayed as being so sexualized and that he's, um, th th there are so many little images in it that paint women is just being ready for you. Um, like set up massage parlors. Girls are set up in a hotel suite, um, go, you know, go to the temple to get laid. Um, I don't know. Um,

Elizabeth: 1:02:00

well, I don't know, like I'm a little bit, I'm not settled in my mind on whether the, like, how much that song is perpetuating it, versus like reporting on what everybody already thought of it to begin

Margaret: 1:02:12

with, you know? And there's the fact that it's. A character. We've talked about this before. It's a character, an unlikeable character. And so telling you his impressions of something. Um, and so you have to understand that context too. Like it's not the guy who wrote the song, telling you what he thinks about Bangkok. It's a guy you're not supposed to like right. Giving you an opinion on something and basically saying I'm better than them. Right. And so, I don't know. It's tricky. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:02:48

It's like a lot of like switchbacks or something, you know, like in the. Set up, you know, like there's, um, the reputation that Bangkok had already had, and they're like, acknowledging it, but he's distancing himself from it, but it doesn't seem himself from it. He's reinforcing it. And also being like unappealing and his distancing from it at the same time, you know, like, I feel like that two negatives make a positive, like I'm losing track of the negatives and how they add up

Margaret: 1:03:19

whether they cancel each other out. Yeah, they do. But, um, I mean, I can say this about it. How many pop songs, you know, top 10 pop songs are there about major Asian cities? Yeah. Uh, so at least it brought awareness to our young ladies minds to even know that there was a place called Bangkok. Yeah, true.

Elizabeth: 1:03:44

Um, I also

Margaret: 1:03:45

remember, although a very small Mark in the column pro column Margaret. Yeah, I definitely, yeah, it was, it

Elizabeth: 1:03:52

was a small Mark, but maybe something I didn't have, like, you know, the way I would have connected to Thailand as a, like later is like through food, you know? And I think the first time I do remember the first time I had pad Thai vivid, I would think I was like 19 years old or something like that in college. Um, at a restaurant.

Margaret: 1:04:15

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's very young. I think I was in my twenties. Well, I was like, what is this manna? I have to have exactly. I was like, put like, can you just make my face, like come plate to look to the bowl too? Totally. Oh my God.

Elizabeth: 1:04:35

But, um, I also remember, I feel like on this show, we've talked about the transphobia of old songs and like wonder like Lola by the kinks and walk on the wild side by Lou Reed. And I recently just heard a story on the radio, a trans woman who's about our age, um, who said that walk on the wild side was like, um, all of a sudden, an open door to her as a young person in the eighties. When she cause when Lou Reed things like, uh, somebody came from from LA. And then drove West and like shaved her legs. And then he was a,

Margaret: 1:05:18

she that that's. Yeah. And so this person on the radio was like, that's a thing I can do. Yes, exactly. Yes. And

Elizabeth: 1:05:27

was like, I shall be shaving my legs. Like it was like, Oh, plucked her eyebrows. And then he was like, that's it? And so yes, this woman was like, that like changed everything for her and like, Oh, and I could drive across country and like become a new person. And it was like, kind of like a savior song for her. Yeah. And so I don't know if like we're, you know, we think we're so clever dismissing songs, you know, but if like you talked to some of the people that might be affected, but like they might have

Margaret: 1:05:56

different, more complicated relationships, but what a great point. Yeah. But I will say like the, the trans stuff and all that, like the band and talking about Bangkok, like it's disgusting. I know it's

Elizabeth: 1:06:11

unfortunate. Like the, my main thing that makes my gut and heart, like when people talk about Bangkok and that way is thinking about the children, the girls and the boys, and like, and that is like unbearable to me to think of, you know, to think about. And so, I don't know. And so like, so for that reason, I feel like some of the other stuff just about like, Like if they're adult prostitutes who are doing it willingly, I could not possibly care less compared to how I'm thinking about the children. You know what I mean? So, um, and even like the cultural stuff I care, like I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I have a strong stance on it. Cause I'm like, I kind of get hung up on that aspect of the city and its reputation

Margaret: 1:07:05

and what I know, because like, isn't

Elizabeth: 1:07:08

that where Gary glitter went, you know, who was later convicted of how many dozens of sex crimes? I think Bangkok was his main place. He went really? I think so.

Margaret: 1:07:20

Oh yeah. Oh, I didn't know that he's the guy that wrote Hey, and that's why they don't play it anymore. Oh, Oh my God. You're blowing my mind. I know that it's been a long time since I've been to a sporting event in person. Yeah. What do they play said now? They play seven nation army by the white stripes play seven

Elizabeth: 1:07:42

nation army.

Margaret: 1:07:44

Yeah. And they play, um,

Elizabeth: 1:07:49

guns and roses. I think they play welcome to the jungle.

Margaret: 1:07:52

Um,

Elizabeth: 1:07:54

which is not as like, you know, seven nation army has the

Margaret: 1:07:56

like thump, but they need,

Elizabeth: 1:08:00

yeah. They of course still play queen, um, some other like fun pop songs, but seven nation army is like

Margaret: 1:08:07

the big, which pumping size makes me happy.

Elizabeth: 1:08:10

Totally. Um, yeah. So I, so anyway, I don't know. So I'm not sure, like, I don't think I would like try to veto your thumbs down, but I probably wouldn't give it a thumbs down. Cause I also like enjoy

Margaret: 1:08:24

the. Patter of it. Yeah. It wasn't going to say that, uh, you know, what's interesting. One of the things I wrote about it said, um, the chorus is sung by this Swedish singer and then Marie had does the rap. And I was like, I don't know, you can call this a rap if you squint squint from a distance and over to the side, I mean, there's a thing in Broadway where you sort of sing talk, and that's what he's doing here. Um, so no that happened my book, but, um, okay, well, yeah, so you've given me a thigh thought a sideways thumbs up or a thumbs up. Yeah. And you're not vetoing my thumbs down. You're giving it a thumbs up mixed reviews here. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:09:15

That's why we, that's why people come and stay. I have some sense for a mixed tape too.

Margaret: 1:09:20

Oh my God. I had no idea what to put on this mixed. Well, what would you put on the mix tape? Okay.

Elizabeth: 1:09:28

So flute solo

Margaret: 1:09:29

says Jethro Tull. Yes. So you can have a mixed tape of solos and

Elizabeth: 1:09:36

also isn't Aqualung about a pedophile,

Margaret: 1:09:40

is it? No, no. I've never looked into what Aqua long is about

Elizabeth: 1:09:44

no girls with bad intense. Yes. Totally hunting on a park bench. Oh, okay. So that goes,

Margaret: 1:09:53

Oh, I know.

Elizabeth: 1:09:55

Gross. Super gross. Okay. So changing the topic, but

Margaret: 1:09:57

I would also put, what is it? I don't know this one time at the end camp. Yeah. Um, Oh yeah. I forgot about that one. I don't know why, but something

Elizabeth: 1:10:10

musically makes me want to put, um,

Margaret: 1:10:13

I come from a land down under, on that mixed tape, Scott flute on it. Well, I just listened to that like an hour ago and I saw the first lyric. Do you know what the beginning of that song is? Um, Oh, it's still on my phone. Um, and I, and I never knew that this is what he was saying. It says traveling in a fried out combi, K O M I capital K, which must be some sort of like truck or something. Yeah. They talk about like Vegemite and stuff in the side of, yeah. Yeah. all right. So anyway, that's what he said. Put that that's a good one. Okay. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:10:58

I would also

Margaret: 1:10:58

put for some reason safety dance. Okay. Sorry about these. Bye. I'm going to say, I know. No. Didn't you hear the ding? No. Oh, good. I thought you might your picks for them. No,

Elizabeth: 1:11:13

you say it. Cause I thought I have do not disturb on, but my I'm still getting messages. And so I thought you could hear it. Nope,

Margaret: 1:11:20

I didn't. That's wonderful. Okay. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:11:23

So I put safety dance on. I might put walk on the wild side with the talking because

Margaret: 1:11:27

of the good thing. And I would also put, um, who's Johnny by elder barge. Oh, and because

Elizabeth: 1:11:37

I put it on every mix tape, she

Margaret: 1:11:38

works hard for the money. It goes, it goes on every day. It's like a little black dress of mixed tapes. It goes, yes, that's funny. So there was a place in the mall we used to go to, uh, and you could go in there and like there were recording studios and you could record yourself singing the hits of today. It was like recorded karaoke. Did you ever go no

Elizabeth: 1:12:08

fun? No, I really regret

Margaret: 1:12:11

not going well. I went not knowing about it. I'll just their last names out, but I went with Maureen Crotty and Carla Lombardo and Katie McHale and we sang who's Johnny. And I loved that song so much and I love elderberry and, um, and I still have the tape somewhere. I should find it, find it, but it's hilarious. They're just laughing their asses off and I'm like heartedly. Yes, I bet. Anyway, that's I, that's a great pick. And guess what? I have an elder barge song on my playlist. Did his, is it rhythm of the night? Yeah. Rhythm of the night. Does his

Elizabeth: 1:12:57

name mean the, of,

Margaret: 1:13:06

I find the, I find the articles very confusing. Well, this last name, Mr. Barge and his first name, I think he goes by, but I think it's like he spells it ELL, but I think it's, it's short for something. We should do it on, Oh, it's L Dre.

Elizabeth: 1:13:24

I'm looking at

Margaret: 1:13:25

it right now. We should do a L DeBarge episode. We should, because I just started yelling at him. Oh, if I can find it, I just started following him on, um, Instagram and he is a delight. Well,

Elizabeth: 1:13:40

okay. I'll have to find him and follow him on flip or flapper

Margaret: 1:13:43

or whatever, the social media clubhouse. So you have read them on the night of the night is great. One. Um, I went with just like songs that were popular the same time as this, um, yeah. Uh, which were, um, crazy for you by Madonna. And we are the world USA for Africa.

Elizabeth: 1:14:11

That's good. Since we became aware of Bangkok at, with the

Margaret: 1:14:16

song. So national flare. Exactly. Don't you forget about me was simple mind. Um, so I went down to also a little rabbit hole with nine may, 1985. And do you know what was happening in May, 1985? Hang on.

Elizabeth: 1:14:34

I got my period,

Margaret: 1:14:41

probably that too. Yes. But, um, the journalist Terry Anderson was taken hostage in Beirut. Bye. Do you remember that big deal for us from Ohio? Yeah. Um, wow. He got out eventually just FYI. Was there a song about that? No, but like that's what we were dealing with. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth: 1:15:10

Terry, who will save Terry?

Margaret: 1:15:19

Uh, yeah. That's what the burger King Illuminati should do a musical about that next. Totally. Huh. So yeah, that's it for my mix tape. Those are good ones. Yeah, totally. I

Elizabeth: 1:15:32

would tell you.

Margaret: 1:15:33

By that mix tape. So anyway, you should all go out and watch, um, Chessie musical. If you can find it on YouTube and learn more about the USSR and America and the way that they worked out, their aggression through sport cerebral and otherwise, exactly.

Elizabeth: 1:15:50

Watch miracle and to end chest the music. Yeah.

Margaret: 1:15:54

And then maybe go right back to Rocky where he defeats. Totally. Oh my

Elizabeth: 1:16:00

God. Which we've talked

Margaret: 1:16:01

about on this show. Right. Make an appearance and almost every one of these it's the eighties. Yeah, it totally does. Right. So good talking with you. I enjoyed this episode as did I. That

Elizabeth: 1:16:14

was a good song and a good

Margaret: 1:16:15

story about it. Okay. I'm gonna smell you later. Okay. For now.