Throughout our lives, we've looked to our heroes in law enforcement, firefighting, and emergency medical services for protection and safety. Yet, we seldom stop to think about the silent battles they fight within themselves due to the heavy emotional toll of their job. This episode uncovers the stark truth about the mental health struggles and addiction issues faced by our first responders and veterans, spotlighting the formidable work of Amanda Coleman, the founder of Irish Angel.
Amanda's passion and commitment to supporting those who shield us daily is nothing short of inspiring. Her non-profit, Irish Angel, serves as a powerful support network for individuals who bear the brunt of trauma and stress in their line of work. Through candid discussions about the macho culture prevalent in these professions, we shed light on the often-ignored mental health issues that plague these communities. We also discuss how the emotional weight of the job can lead to addiction, depression, and a high rate of suicide among first responders. Amanda's unwavering dedication to this cause is a testament to the power of compassion, resilience, and the capacity of the human spirit to heal.
But the conversation doesn't end there. We delve into the uniquely challenging world of doctors, particularly those in the cosmetic field, exploring the immense emotional labor entailed in their profession. Amanda shares her own experiences, providing a raw and real insight into the pressures, expectations, and the often overlooked emotional toll that this profession takes on its practitioners. This episode is a must-listen if you've ever wondered what it's like on the other side of the siren and the scalpel. Join us as we navigate the often unseen struggles of those who selflessly serve and protect us, reminding us all of the power of listening, empathy, and understanding.
Contact Amanda Coleman at:
Website: https://irishangel.org/
Linkedin: Irish Angel Inc
Instagram: @blue_irish_angel
Facebook: https://facebook.com/IrishAngelinc
Tweet me @realdrhamrah
Throughout our lives, we've looked to our heroes in law enforcement, firefighting, and emergency medical services for protection and safety. Yet, we seldom stop to think about the silent battles they fight within themselves due to the heavy emotional toll of their job. This episode uncovers the stark truth about the mental health struggles and addiction issues faced by our first responders and veterans, spotlighting the formidable work of Amanda Coleman, the founder of Irish Angel.
Amanda's passion and commitment to supporting those who shield us daily is nothing short of inspiring. Her non-profit, Irish Angel, serves as a powerful support network for individuals who bear the brunt of trauma and stress in their line of work. Through candid discussions about the macho culture prevalent in these professions, we shed light on the often-ignored mental health issues that plague these communities. We also discuss how the emotional weight of the job can lead to addiction, depression, and a high rate of suicide among first responders. Amanda's unwavering dedication to this cause is a testament to the power of compassion, resilience, and the capacity of the human spirit to heal.
But the conversation doesn't end there. We delve into the uniquely challenging world of doctors, particularly those in the cosmetic field, exploring the immense emotional labor entailed in their profession. Amanda shares her own experiences, providing a raw and real insight into the pressures, expectations, and the often overlooked emotional toll that this profession takes on its practitioners. This episode is a must-listen if you've ever wondered what it's like on the other side of the siren and the scalpel. Join us as we navigate the often unseen struggles of those who selflessly serve and protect us, reminding us all of the power of listening, empathy, and understanding.
Contact Amanda Coleman at:
Website: https://irishangel.org/
Linkedin: Irish Angel Inc
Instagram: @blue_irish_angel
Facebook: https://facebook.com/IrishAngelinc
Tweet me @realdrhamrah
All right, welcome everyone to the Darihammer podcast, to another amazing episode with an amazing human being. So this podcast is very going to be very inspiring. It means a lot to me personally because of what I went through as a first responder, especially when I was in training as a resident at Jackson Memorial Hospital and other hospitals like Chicago and Boston, so we will delve into stories of resilience, empowerment and change. Today we have an amazing guest. Like I said, she's a beacon of support for the unsung heroes amongst us the law enforcement officers, firefighters, dispatchers, emergency medical services providers and military veterans who face unique challenges on and off duty. Our guest today is the very Amanda Coleman, also known as Irish Angel, passionate founder of Irish Angel, a nonprofit that serves the powerful support network for these brave individuals.
Speaker 1:Amanda's commitment to protecting our protectors has garnered her organization over 300,000 followers and connections on social media. Her mission to tackle growing rates of post traumatic stress, mental health issues and addiction within these communities. She does this remarkable work not for applause, but because she truly believes in giving back to those who give so much to us every single day. Irish Angel not only offers access to essential services and counseling, but also provides education, funding and resources to help those struggling to find their way back to healing. With chapters across the United States and a vision that's continuously expanding, amanda's dedication is making an impact on countless lives. She's a testament to the power of compassion and resilience. So let's dive into her journey, her challenges and her unwavering commitment to those who protect us. Please join me in welcoming Amanda.
Speaker 2:Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks, amanda. So it means this again. Like I said in an intro, this means a lot to me just because I was affected from a lot of these issues for many years in training, where today I'm able to, as a result of what I went through in the past. I was able today to go through a lot of stresses in professional and personal lives, in my personal life. But many of us don't come out of stressful situations strong and many of us don't know that there is help. Many of us don't know how to cope with it because of the stigma that's attached to this issue, where it's usually perceived as weakness.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was a resident, I never wanted to talk about it because I didn't want to be perceived as a weak person. I didn't want it to affect my career negatively. So I basically, like I was told, I sucked it up like a man. But there was days in my career, in my early career, when I was in training, that I didn't know how I could survive the next day. I just didn't. I had no answer. It got to a point I got so tired thinking about it that the time just passed while I was thinking about it and then the next day was already there. It's almost like just take one foot in front of the other and don't even worry about the third step.
Speaker 1:And what I'm talking about here is our issues, that there are studies, and I want you to share your experience with us. Also, just for the audience to know the context we're talking about, about PTSD, which is post-traumatic stress disorder and depression, that is estimated that 30% of first responders develop these types of behavioral health conditions, compared to less than 20% in a general population, so that's a pretty significant difference. Statistically. It's pretty significant. You know, I read about a white paper on mental health and suicide of first responders, which was dated 2018, that more firefighters and police officers died by suicide than in the line of duty in 2017.
Speaker 2:And it's been consecutively with law enforcement, in particular for the last two years. It's been the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is pre-COVID, by the way. I just don't. I'm scared to ask about the number during COVID, like the 2020 number. I don't want to know. To be honest, an anxiety more common amongst first responders. You know it's obviously due to the high stress nature of the work, so I want a minute. So, first of all, welcome again, and please tell me how does your organization approach supporting the first responders law enforcement, firefighters, dispatchers, ems providers, veterans to translate to the unique pressures and stresses faced by healthcare professionals, like, how do you guys do it? If you can help understand our audience, understand how you guys approach it and how you came about to create this foundation? Just so we have some context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so back in 2015, we were having trouble. Obviously, I'm from Ireland and hopefully you can understand me. Your audience.
Speaker 2:But, I'll try to keep it, keep it, keep it slow, but yeah, so we were going through our own stuff in Ireland and it was impacting our law enforcement massively and I have family in law enforcement and I was really bothered by it and I wanted to take the social media just to show support for them because there was so much hatred towards them. And my cousin was like no, he says we don't have it as bad as America. He said you need to see what's happening in America. So he said police officers are being ambushed in their cars while they're sitting having lunch and I was like nah, can't be.
Speaker 2:Like America is big carry guns, our police officers don't. So I'm like how can that be? And I did the research and I was absolutely devastated by seeing what I was seeing. I just took to LinkedIn post and messages of support, not even thinking it would make it to the United States, and it did. And a SWAT team actually in your hometown now Virginia got together and they gave me an honorary call sign which was Irish Angel and that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great. So I used that and I turned it into. I created a website that was username and password. It was a safe haven for them to go and talk amongst themselves and to invite the families on as well. We would just share, like we do on LinkedIn today, just sharing news, relevant topics, mental health stuff, the fallen heroes, all that kind of stuff. But it was an open forum so we could see the conversations, and in doing that, I too personally have had repeated trauma since I was a child till 10 years ago and aside from that, my mom suffered with PTS because of grief and her PTS sadly brought her to abuse and alcohol and prescription meds and that and so on, and then she developed something called parapsychosis and so I have a clear understanding of addiction.
Speaker 2:I have a clear understanding of trauma, and so I was watching the conversations on our forum back and forth and with the families and what have you. It was triggering things in me and I was like this is an issue, this is a problem. So I did research, just like you, on the suicides. I knew the suicides was high in the veteran community, but I didn't realize just how high they were climbing up there within the first responder community too. So I spoke with a friend a good friend of mine is a sheriff in Schenectady, new York and he was like Angel, you've got all this following, now what do you want to do? And I was like I can't really do anything. I'm not from America. He said. No, he said, but I am. He said I believe in you. He said and I believe in your passion. He said do the research and we'll start at 501. So we did that was in. We got our letter of determination in December 2019.
Speaker 2:And so we I went around, did some research on how we could actually help people. I did not want to just be another raise awareness kind of an organization and not that there's anything wrong with that, but I I'm very much about being proactive and helping people, and especially those who are leaving their families every single day to go and take on everybody else's traumas and everybody else's problems, and you know so I respect them. So I went around treatment facilities that cater to first responders and I was like, well, how can, if I start this nonprofit, how can we help? So the consensus was that if you're a first responder, a lot of the time they're sent out of state for treatment, because they don't want to put them in a position where they're with people they may have arrested or they may go into altercations with or whatever, and so they go out of state for treatment and a lot of the time, if someone is in crisis, so is their finances, and so they can't always afford the travel expenses when it comes to going to get the treatment. And so I was like right, that's where we need to start, you know, helping, and we were not without our headaches too, when we got the 501, because we got that in December and we were launching in Boston in March 2020 and COVID hit, and so we were hit with that. That put a spanner in the works. And then, sadly, there was the riots, which that had a profound impact on nonprofits, that helped law enforcement and, because it wasn't that, people didn't want to invest in us, they were afraid of what would happen to their businesses, and so we just kind of had to take it back seat, and I was glad that we did that, because, you know, I think everything happens either for a lesson or a blessing, and for us, I think it was a bit of both, because it allowed us to develop our network our resources and get more educated on stuff and put together a good team. And so we did. And now we.
Speaker 2:What we do as a whole for the company is we help send people for treatment. So we don't have a hotline for Irish Angel, but we do have people because we're so prominent on social media. People trust us. Our board is built of service members, past and present, so they're able and they all have experienced trauma or addiction. So this is a labor of love for all of us and none of us take a wage. We all do it because we have hard for doing it and so we have different members of the team that they're very educated in, not just the field of mental health but the living, living that daily. So people, when people reach out to us, they know they're going to talk to. They call them brothers or sisters right, they're going to talk to someone who has been on their level. So they do reach out to us quite a lot for help and when they do, we then have amazing resources that we go to.
Speaker 2:We have gotten some people help within it. Within it was 20 minutes. We got someone in New York some help and so we could have helped to someone from 20 minutes to 24 hours, no matter where you are in the States, but that's again for that time. We just built up our resources and the medical professionals around us to be able to help them. So that's what we do. We fund people to go for treatment and then if a treatment is not covered under insurance and insurance companies are a bit of a nightmare, to be perfectly honest because they agree to just say, for instance, someone needs six weeks treatment they will agree to the six weeks treatment and then if that individual is doing well two weeks in, they'll pull the funding from it. You'll say they're doing okay, they need to go home now. So we try to help with that.
Speaker 2:But thankfully, the resources that we work with also work with other nonprofits and we can pull together to be able to help them all stay in treatment when we can. So we do as much as we can to help them all. Plus, we go around to different departments that don't have funding and be able to talk about peer to peer, to talk about crisis intervention, to talk about resources we have available for people and to show people that it's okay to not be okay. And Scott normally comes and does the training with us and Scott's my vice president and he's a former assistant chief in Alabama and he has been through the wars and back again and so he is very passionate about helping. So we go around and we go to those departments that don't have the funding to be able to educate them on certain things.
Speaker 2:Because the key, the fundamental key and this is why I'm so in awe of you the fundamental key is to have someone who is in that position of power right, who has been in that position and understands it, to have experienced trauma and to have experienced that not okay situation you know and you've lived through it and you come out the other side of that. To have that taught down to people beneath them not beneath them, wrong word, but people who look up to them basically is a huge thing, because that's the fundamental key to reach and get people to reach out and letting them know it's okay to have these difficult conversations. We all need to have them. We're all human beings, no matter what side of the profession that you're on.
Speaker 2:Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody in this world is exempt from mental health issues or from having trauma in their lives. We all process trauma differently, you know. So trauma is trauma. It doesn't matter whether I've. I think you know my story, but my story was like a complete note or cluster of a life. But versus somebody who you might think has an insignificant trauma, it's not that at all. It's how we process it and how we deal with it right. When you and I just discussed this before, we jumped on about using that like we're kind of a rare breed in many ways because we utilized our trauma and we turned it into our superpower right, and so that drives us to where we are today. So I am in awe of you as a doctor, thank you.
Speaker 2:You're now saying about your trauma.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate your kind words. You know it's. I feel that we come to a place in our lives where we start developing so much compassion and empathy for the ones that have gone through similar trauma and similar hardships in their lives than we have, and there's nothing more compelling than wanting to help these people, because, especially when you see people that mean a lot to you, like friends or family, who don't come out the other side stronger, it starts with them where it raises awareness in your mind like oops, I guess it's. You know, not everybody is able to come out stronger from the other side, and maybe we should. And then, obviously, naturally, what I do I try talking to them, try to basically help them by sharing my experience, how I did it.
Speaker 1:Maybe they can use it as a tool to first of all have known someone that has done it and then also get receive a tool that helps them to come out of it and not getting crushed, because I feel a lot of times it is the lack of perspective that crushes people, when they think the world has come to an end and there is no door they can get through. There is no way they can come out of this, however miserable situation it is and they just don't see a way. And for someone to show them the way. I mean to me that's the very purpose of humanity, where people are supposed to help each other because without each other we don't have a world. And when people realize that without each other for example, the stories that you said about people ambushing police officers and responders just because they're upset about whatever news came out the day before and it's terrible because I mean, think of it what is the first thing we do when we feel threatened? What three numbers do we dial?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And to ambushing those people because of a story you got wrong or your emotions got the better of you. It just doesn't make sense and I feel it's also. We live in a society where the media has so much power, and just to sell eyeballs they create these dramatic stories and exaggerations. They influence people just so they can sell eyeballs. What they don't realize is that they're threatening the very people that help them when their house is on fire, when their child got lost or kidnapped, when they got in an accident or when there is a burglar in their house. And so this is just such a lack of perspective. It does make me upset. It just makes me sad that people have the especially in the media the audacity to claim these stories true and create this turmoil and this just hatred towards our first responders.
Speaker 2:And that has a profound impact on the first person.
Speaker 1:Of course, like for you guys, like you said, it was an issue with funding after those protests. You know, like people, I know people hated first responders and especially officers, and there's good and bad in every profession and that's what people need to realize. I mean, that's the nature of the beast, but that doesn't mean you get to just attack someone that you don't even know that could actually be the one that would save your life one day. Think of it that way.
Speaker 2:So people forget as well that they're human beings. Yes, they have a job to do, but they're human beings. They feel just like you and I. They feel they bleed the same, they get hurt, they have family issues just as we have. And, funny thing, they probably have worse ones.
Speaker 2:Because when you work and you'll get this as well from your profession when you're working, as on the front line, and you are seeing, you're going to a scene where you've just had to tell someone that their child was dead, you had to pick a little girl up or a little boy up who's been raped. I mean, you associate. The automatic thing is to associate your children with those children, and that is one of the number one things that a police officer in general or a firefighter or an EMS worker will tell you. They automatically associate their own children with that child and that has a horrible impact on them. So if they're seeing, if they're going to different scenes every night or every day or whatever the shift is, they're on and they're going home and then, just with family life your wife has a little nag at you or your husband has a little nag at you it's going to escalate, right, or either escalate or you'll shut down.
Speaker 2:And when you shut down or if you escalate it, it's just more drama, it's more just layering it on top of you. It's just you know it's awful. So I try my best. We share new stories on our social media, about cops in particular, just because we want to educate the people that you know what. Ask yourself could you do this job and be okay? You know?
Speaker 1:I could tell you I couldn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, because especially, I've seen what they have done and the things they have done when I was working at the trauma center and I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you see what comes through your doors, right, they're seeing the scenes. They're seeing the people that is at the scene, the trauma that they're experiencing, and the sad thing about it is that law enforcement and the first responder community it's a very macho industry, right, they've got egos because they have to right, they have to come across like it doesn't affect them.
Speaker 1:Authoritarian.
Speaker 2:And even to their brothers and sisters. They won't say it affects them, but they'll go home and that's how they turn to addiction. They will drink, they will take sleeping meds, they will do whatever they can just to try and drown out the noise you know.
Speaker 1:It's a very principle that you can't sustain faking something long term. You can do it once or twice, but these people have to almost fake an unnatural strength and power.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even, like you said, in front of their families, just so that they show a little bit of weakness because they're perceived as this powerful authority. Yes, and I can relate to that, because I remember when I was a resident, there was times where I was under so much stress that I went to the bathroom. I had two pagers on me and a walkie-talkie. I was receiving every trauma that would come in from the city of Miami and Dade County.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And for two months I had those things strapped on me every day and it got to a point where everything was beep. I went to the bathroom. After like waiting six hours to go to the bathroom, I just didn't get to it. But then I said I can't, I was in pain because I had to go to the bathroom. So I went to the bathroom. Every beeper, every radio, every phone on me was ringing at once.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And then I was trying to figure out which one to pick up first and then something shut down in me and I remember I said, fuck it, I can't do this. And I put my hands on my face and I just started crying and I was in the bathroom, the door was locked and I don't know how much time passed by and these rings and everything, they became very distant and then, once they stopped because they stopped all of a sudden it got. I snapped out of it and just that. I don't know how many minutes that was that I was crying. It just was a relief, the sort of relief where I said, okay, you know what? And I just got a grip of myself. I said, okay, one miracle at a time, daria. So let's see what these beeps are beeping for. So I walk out of the bathroom. The bathroom was in the trauma center. The nurses came to me where are you? Where have you been? I said I was just in the bathroom. So I came out and it was basically a mass casualty. It was a inmate bus on I-95 had flipped over and there was like 16 inmates. They got ejected from that bus and all of them were coming via, some of them by helicopter. So we're watching on TV. The scene was live. It was live on TV and all I was thinking is like, okay, how many people are we Like we don't have enough people.
Speaker 1:So I started running to other ERs. I got every intern, every medical student. I said you come with me now. And the attendings were asking what are you doing? I said we have a mass casualty, I need hands, because my chief resident and the attending that were in the operating room dealing with a liver laceration. So it was me, two medical students, one intern and two trauma nurses and one army physician who was in training, because the army sent always the military sent their residents to us for training because we were such a big trauma center. So basically, all of a sudden, this calmness went to me where I just went. Literally it was like in my brain everything turned into an orchestra. I said you do this now. You do that, just all pragmatic. Five minutes before that I didn't have an answer. I thought I'm just going to flush the toilet and I'm going to go down that flush, I'm just going to disappear. I can't do this. I always use that moment in my life as an anchor whenever I get in a high stress situation where I'm like I don't have an answer right now, I don't know how I'm going to get out of this. I use that moment and this calmness comes through me. But I do know that not everybody necessarily has that ability and that experience. That whoever Angel was sitting on my shoulder that night helped me to overcome that. I know that not everybody necessarily is that lucky and for me that moment serves as an anchor to every hardship in my life to overcome it, because I know I did that and I always tell myself if I can do that, I can do anything.
Speaker 1:Because this topic is so important to me, because I couldn't talk to anybody about the issues, because the stigma that was attached to what we went through was perceived as a complain, as weakness, and you wanted to make sure they don't kick you out and you graduate. That was the pressure that was on you. You didn't want to be the laughingstock of the hospital and you definitely couldn't go to your chief residence because they were like, kind of like the attitude. I went through the same crap, so you better shut up or you're out, or worse, even you would get an extra call. So we're already post-called. You had to sit for another call. So now you didn't sleep for 36 hours and so that pressure was on you. So you didn't dare to talk to anyone about it and no one talked to each other even about it. Because we thought maybe if you say to one person, the other person is going to talk about us to our superior and then they're going to think we're like a wuss or a wimp. So we didn't want to have that on us and that was crushing really.
Speaker 1:I mean now thinking back, I definitely was suffering, definitely from anxiety. I mean, even today, when I hear a beeper going on, it's like Pavlov, right, it's a trigger. I get anxiety. But I was depressed because I couldn't talk to anybody about it. So I had to internalize everything and the only reason why I came out of it stronger is because of my personality.
Speaker 1:I'm very stubborn and I'm very determined. So my determination was I knew Promised Land is outside of those four walls. All I had to do is finish these four years and then I'm done. So I did it for a purpose. So I saw the light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1:But many people do not have a light, do not see a light at the end of the tunnel. And I think of myself if that was the case, I probably wouldn't have made it. The only thing that motivated me was that little light at the end of the tunnel, and the closer I would get to it, the more motivated it would make me. So I want you to share your thoughts on how this type of stress and burnout experienced by doctors and mainly surgical residents in hospital, which many don't know, that a lot of the work in the hospital is being done by the residents and there are doctors but there are still residents in training, but they do all the legwork, all the hard work, all the dirty work and how that might mirror what you guys do and how you guys serve the first responders, and have you thought of creating a support system for those residents and interns in hospitals?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and in many ways we already do, because we never turn anybody away. A lot of our police officers who follow us, their wives for nurses, so you'll get a lot of medical people coming through as well. So I mean, we turn nobody away. If someone reached out to us for help, we won't go to them. No, you're not a cop or you're not a first responder. We will make sure that we try to get the best care to them that we can. We collaborate with some of the most amazing organizations, which is one is Kadia Health. I'm sure you know them.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they have a phenomenal first responder program. It's headed by two former chiefs of police, very dear friends of mine, bill Mazer and Joe Collins, both incredible human beings, and they do a lot centered around wellness for the hospital community, like doctors, nurses. They even do pilots. They do all professional, all anybody, I think, who has a high pressure job or is involved with the public. Because, as much as we love the public, public are nasty sometimes.
Speaker 2:You know they're not your friends a lot of the time and so the people are put in awkward situations, stressful situations, so they cater for everybody. So they are an amazing tool for your arsenal and I would totally suggest to have those guys go out and talk with you or departments, hospital departments but yes, absolutely, we would happily put the residents and nurses, doctors and what have you on there, because the professionals they need their help and they're the ones that the professional field, I think professional field is, because you have to maintain a certain level of diplomacy and how you act around people and you have that authority over people. They believe that they can show that weakness, they have to be vulnerable and they have to know that it's okay to be vulnerable, because being vulnerable is the strongest thing that you can ever do, because it's the first step to you getting the help that you need when you need it.
Speaker 1:Isn't that true? Isn't that true? And isn't that ironic that our very bosses, so to speak, they say that's a sign of weakness, and they say this is only for people with thick skin, and if you're not made out of thick skin, there is no place for you here. What do you have to say to that?
Speaker 2:I think that mentality is just so wrong. It's so wrong.
Speaker 2:I think the problem from all the first responder communities is you know it starts with leadership. Your leaders have to be a beacon of life for your people, because, think about it, no matter what your profession is right, and just using the analogy of a veteran or a cop, so you're given a budget, right, you're given a budget to run your department, you get new uniforms, training, clothes, training in your cars, equipment, all that kind of stuff. You're given all of these tools to do your job, but they forget about the one tool that's the most important tool that you have, and it's your brain. And so if you're not looking after your brain, you're not going to be 100% at your job, no matter what profession you're in, you know. And so I believe that these leaders have a duty of care to their people, to make sure not just their communities, but to their actual people underneath them that they need to be well, they need to have that support network that's there for them because, like they said, no one is exempt.
Speaker 2:You will have that moment, just like you did, that day where you will shut down Like you will. You will either freeze and go in a total opposite direction or you will just like you have that come to Jesus moment where you just you know you turn it around, but there's many people out there who can't and they don't know how to process that, and so it's down. It's up to the leaders to change that. I think personally Now in the law enforcement and the first responder community that's starting to change, but it's not changing fast enough. When you look at the rate of suicide.
Speaker 1:Why do you think that is when? In your experience, have it really Is the resistance or the?
Speaker 2:friction, I think. I think before COVID, I think, yes, everyone was on board with it. And then when? And I hate to use politics, but I think politics.
Speaker 2:I know you're going to say that politics has gotten involved massively in the first responder community, and to the detriment of the first responders, you know, because when you think of it logically, right, just say, for instance, law enforcement's immunity was threatened to be taken away. If that happened, it meant that they're on their own, basically. So if they get sued, they have to pay for that themselves. The government was no longer going to do that, so they're stressed out about that. Then the training had to have to change, right? So you're already putting yourself just think about it with the training that you're given when you go into an academy or whatever, and the training that you get all the time. When your structure is changed and you're put in a high intense situation and your hyper vigilance is off the charts, right, and you're put into that situation, you're thinking within your mind within that split second, am I going to get shot? Am I going to kill somebody? Am I going to get sued? Am I going to, am I going to get jailed? These are all the things. The high stresses that these guys have a split second decision to make within a moment, and that is extremely difficult, and so the government doesn't see that, and so they're just implementing all of these rules and regulations without even contemplating the impact that it is having on the individuals. And when we talk with first responders now, when they reach out to us for help, it's really funny to see how it's evolving. Right, so it would always be around their families, it would be around what they've experienced on the job. But now, just from talking to doctors all the time that we deal with it, but in certain organizations, when they strip it back, there is two things that it's becoming a very clear and I would never have thought of it before is like it's a very clear path to their destruction is one they have childhood trauma that they've never dealt with. Right, that they've. They've compartmentalized it and forgot all about it. But what they experience on the job triggers whatever that was in the past right.
Speaker 2:And then you have which is a really new thing is the administration. There are administrations failing them and they know that there's no hope. There is a mass exodus within law enforcement right now, a veteran police officers mass exodus and they don't want. They didn't want to leave because they love the job and they actually a lot of them. We talk to feel guilty for leaving because they're leaving these kids, but they know, if they know the risks involved now with all of these laws that's implemented by the government. So they had to get out. They just had to get out. But now you have these young kids that are coming in. We don't have the veterans to look after them and help them on their way. And these kids are coming in and they're not as hard tough as the veterans are and so they're getting more impact impacted by what they're seeing. And for the good thing about the younger generation now is their will and talk. It's the older generation that won't talk, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's a positive.
Speaker 1:But how do we motivate people getting into this type of line of work, Going into how are the police academies dealing with? I guess, a meager application numbers and they're not.
Speaker 2:How does?
Speaker 1:that happen. They're not. It's changed.
Speaker 2:It's bad. Right now. No one wants to join the police force. Right, so Remember they're way down, Like way way down.
Speaker 1:So is there any solution? Any way? Has that risen awareness within the politicians to realize? Okay, the strategy I guess is not working out to anybody's benefit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's the same even with the veterans right now they can't. Or with the military, they can't get people to sign up. Now you know, yeah, and again I hate bringing it into this, but it's like we've joined this world culture that is now intoxicating these people that have a tough job to do when they their entities. That should never be. Those lines should not be crossed. You know they have to act a specific way. They need to be allowed to do their job and that's the issue is, they're not allowed to do their jobs. You know they're villainized for doing their jobs. So it's just, it's something that has got to give within the ranks of the politician world, because I can't see it getting any better. You know I really can't, and that's disheartening for those who are who we need valuably to join the services, but it's just not happening. The numbers are down, the quality of candidates is down. It's not good. You know it's really not good, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I know and I hope that people will wake up and realize that the people who are in the enterprise are going to realize that this vocal culture, mentality and this fear-mongering is not going to help any of us.
Speaker 1:And I guess you know, like history has told us, unless things get bad enough, people won't do anything about it.
Speaker 1:There's too many politicians who are so worried about their careers and about how they can maximize these types of issues to their benefit that, you know, until one of their own family members or they themselves get affected from it, and then all of a sudden they become the spokesperson. So it's tough to say, but it is the way it is and I hate to be the one saying it, but you know, unless we've gotten burned ourselves, we probably won't necessarily, or we kind of close both eyes on issues like that, and I think that will change, I just don't know when. But I wanted to circle back a little bit on these resources that you guys have. You said you know you setting people up with resources, how, what kind of resources are you talking about? And if you can kind of explain us a little bit how, if someone is seeking help and they contact you guys or they come in touch with you, and, when you do, channel them to the resources that you mentioned, what are those resources specifically?
Speaker 2:So when we do that, we tend to. We have a lot of resources, so there's loads of different treatment facilities that we would reach out to depending on the situation. So when, when they contact us, we'll have like a couple of questions that we will ask them so we will know what level of care they need or who we need to go to. So if it's somebody who needs some treatment for addiction, if it's someone who who needs mental health treatment, or if it's someone who who just needs outsourced, like you know, out of treat, out of facility treatment, we we judge it on that and then we contact the people out where on a resource team. Then they assess the individual and the thing that I love about, particularly about Acadia, is based on the individual's assessment, they will send them to the treatment facility that best suits the individual's needs and that does not mean their own, their own facilities.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great because they invest so many other other agencies that they could partner with if a treatment is needed, a specific treatment within a specific area for that individual, and so they put them out to whatever treatment facility best suits that person's needs. Because mental health as a whole is a minefield and everybody's everybody. How they deal with it and process it is different, and so is the treatment. It's nearly like it's tailored to an individual. So they do that. And then for the outsourced and for the outpatients, we work with a great company called Forge Health. We've sent a lot of people their direction too, and they I think they're in about 10 states now, but they have like a tele telemedical as well. So they're really they're great people and if they don't know someone, they have someone within their field or their area that will know someone who will get them help, you know. So it's all about utilizing the resources we have to assess the individual and then find the best care needed for those, those people.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful and I think having that type of triage that is also done by people that have been in the trenches, like you said, is what makes it more relatable to the individual that is seeking help, that knows that they're speaking to someone that like them. And you know, because a lot of us not doctors but people out there, they don't have necessarily very healthy relationship with doctors or therapists sometimes. You know, I've seen that hate and mistrust on social media a lot where I tried to educate which is all I do on social media try to educate people on the stuff that I know best and I never tried to talk about stuff that I don't know.
Speaker 1:And then I see comments like you guys are just saying that because all you care about is money and the pharmaceutical industry is so corrupt, they put us all in one pot and yeah category and start judging us and I'm thinking, wow, I mean, if you go through life with that type of attitude, you know like there's no way you can ever get help if you need it. So but but again it's politics. Again I again blame it on media creating these types of stories.
Speaker 2:It is 100% correct there.
Speaker 1:And it's so sad, it makes me so upset. I'm like here I am trying to give the best advice and someone takes it exactly opposite, almost like I'm doing everything for money. And so sometimes I just comment with empathy. I said I'm sorry you feel this way. You know there are the ones of us that care more about helping people, that care about money. If you believe in humanity, but if you've lost your trust and you know your love for humanity, then you know God help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because and you know I, because I've been following you for a long time now and I love your honesty. I absolutely love your honesty, thank you, and everything else. But from a standpoint of you and I can relate to this I'd be in it being just saying if I was a patient and I was, because I think I told you about my weight loss and I've lost 100 pounds, and so me as a person can, yes, I feel much better myself, I'm really healthy now and all that kind of stuff, but I in many ways still suffer with body dysmorphia and you know like to me, I've traded in one problem for another set of problems. There's other things that needs to be fixed. Now you know what I mean, there's always something.
Speaker 2:There's always something. So but for as a doctor like particularly in the field you work in, where people, people who reach out a lot there's a lot of people who reach out for help to plastic surgeons, and you know people who do bariatrics and all that kind of stuff and they're reaching out because they're at their most lowest, they believe that there's something wrong with them and they want to change that for the better. Like, granted, some people are amazing at it and they just get it done because they want to get it done, but there is an underlying issue of that individual suffering mentally about how they physically look and how they feel. And so I can't imagine as a doctor particularly one like you give a great bedside manner and you're great with people and you care. So you're taking on people's stories, they're talking to you about their lowest points, and so you're layering that up as well.
Speaker 2:You know so as much as you know first responders doing their things. You're actually layering that upon yourself. So you're taking on other people's heartache and that's difficult, and then you're going home to your family and then you have to try and decompress or compartmentalize, whatever way you process it. So I think, just because you work in the cosmetic field and people think it's a really glamorous job and it is. It makes people beautiful and makes people very happy with themselves. But at the same time, patients are patients and patients have problems and they will emotional.
Speaker 2:You know. So I think it does not matter what sort of a doctor you are, what sort of a nurse you are, whatever field you work in, things is going to impact you. If you're a human being, it will impact you in some way.
Speaker 1:So far, yeah, thank you. I really appreciate you segwaying into that, because that's actually how we met. And I remember, you know, that day that I sat on my desk and it kind of felt like that day when I was in the trauma center where I was just exhausted and I just sat on my desk and there was this utter silence and then I just picked up the phone and I just started talking to a point I don't even remember right now. I wouldn't be able to recall what I said. I would have to see if I can find that post to listen to what I said, because I just started talking and when you talk from your heart, you don't remember what you said because it didn't go through my brain, it came straight from my heart to my mouth, to my vocal cords.
Speaker 1:But I remember that day. I had a whole week and that particular day back to back to back patients, where you know that's the part that people don't know about our job. We certainly don't save lives, but what I try to do is improve people's lives by giving them back their self-esteem, their self-confidence, and I'm so passionate about it that I feel everything my patients say and sometimes I struggle to keep my composure and hold my emotions back, because I can feel how they feel You're an inspiration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I feel it and vice versa, I share their happiness afterwards when I was able to help them, which is there's nothing more beautiful than when someone just looks you in the eyes and, straight up, says thank you, and you can feel what that thank you means. There's two words, but you can feel, you can sense, you know with all your fibers in your body, you can sense what that meant and how the patient meant it. That is, it's the superpower that I feel. It gives me to try to help every single person that I can see or touch, and so that's really something I do with a lot of conviction because I see it every day, I see a transformation, but that particular day I sit several consultations and patients all the patients had, you know, crazy stories, that from domestic abuse to just someone one patient, her mother, was constantly telling her that she's ugly, that she should do something about herself.
Speaker 2:And that's what I mean about you taking it all on. You know, people don't realize that that you do. You layer all that up and it does have an effect on you and your well-being. And I always remember that post, I always remember seeing it and I just I had to reach out to you because I could feel it from you.
Speaker 1:And it meant a lot to me, by the way, just knowing that someone heard it and there is people like you that actually have their lives mission consists of helping others, but for me, just knowing is that basically, hey, I see you and I hear you, which is what you said that just made me feel so much better. So that's why I'm really grateful, not just for what you do with your foundation, helping first responders, but you have your eyes and ears out there on social media.
Speaker 1:So that day, back to the story, and so basically, instead of talking about surgical or non-surgical solutions to their problem, I just tried to give them self-worth, teach them self-love, tell them that the only important thing is what they think and not what others think, that today is the first day of their future and the past is the past, it doesn't exist anymore, it only desists in their minds. And so I was more of a life coach that day. But when I do that, I don't just check boxes, I don't just read a script. I really, because I feel the patient's pain, I really want them to hear me, I really it's so important to me that they understand what I'm saying, so I give it my all. I put everything I have, the last piece of me, into that conversation, to the point that my staff now knows they cannot disturb the room when that happens, to tell me, hey, the next patient is waiting. Because when that happens I usually have a talk with them to realize that, yes, we're running a business, but first we treat human beings, and this is more important than anyone. And let me deal with the patient that had been waiting, because I will explain why they had been waiting and, trust me they will be okay with it, so don't worry about it. So my staff and my staff knows that. And the way I learned that lesson is because the very first time I had to explain to the patient why apologize for that they've been waiting, and I explained why they had been waiting, the patient got up and gave me a hug. So that's when I learned it's like well, people, there is human beings out there. They understand people still have a heart out there. They're not just out there to get you or complain or leave a bad review on Google to corner you or to pressure you. So that was that very learning experience.
Speaker 1:So that day I gave it my all and I was able to really get to a point with those patients that at the end of the conversations they were so full of gratitude and so much they felt so much more hope and they verbalized it. That's why I know it, you can sense it, but when they verbalize it it's a different thing. That means it really meant a lot to them. That means, hey, I really heard you, thank you, and things like no one ever spent this time with me, no one. So all of those things they mean a lot and it's very uplifting, yes, it's also it helps my own self.
Speaker 1:It's maybe it's a little bit of selfishness involved in there too, but because it makes me feel amazing to know that I could make a difference, not just with the scalpel, but just by giving someone just perspective. Right, all I do is I give them perspective and how much that helps these people, how it affects them, and so I'm so passionate about it and it's something that in our field, in cosmetic or plastic surgery, not only it's not talked about, it's frowned upon, it's like, hey, we're not, this is not our problem. Those patients need to see a psychologist or a shrink. You're a surgeon, do your job and be done with it and don't deal with those patients. I disagree because the human part of me can't let me see past that. It's just part of it, because when I do see transformations of when I do some work on these patients, it's the joy it brings me is not any different than the joy it brings me by spending the 15 or 30 minutes talking to them, even if they walk out without any treatment plan, knowing that I helped them.
Speaker 1:Because some of these patients, their problems is more psychological. They have just self-esteem issues and, yes, someone might have some problems that it really, if I feel, or they verbalize that that's really what is affecting their self-esteem and if I can augment it with that physical change together with my let's call it pep talk, then that's a double winner and that's what I'm passionate about. But I cannot separate them. I can't separate the human, their spirit, their brain from their body Just not possible. It's just they go hand in hand and there are studies that in social psychology that has shown that it's embedded in our DNA. We feel better when we look better, we have more self-confidence. It boosts our self-esteem. I mean, they're related, it's like a cycle and you can't separate them. You can't say, oh no, this person is crazy or this person is shallow.
Speaker 1:There's more important stuff in life and that's the stigma that's attached to when people choose to improve their physical appearance. To me it's not any different than someone trying to go to the gym or losing weight or combing their hair, putting their favorite shirt or dress on to go to an event. You walk differently, you talk differently. As a result, it's not any different. And yet people judge cosmetic or plastic surgery and they separate that, and so one of my missions is to give them perspective, to tell them look, it's not any different than you just putting your favorite shirt on, look how you feel.
Speaker 1:I mean, how would you feel like going in a hoodie and jumpsuit to a wedding? You would feel weird. And then you can blame the society for it, say, well, that's societal pressure. I refuse to bend to societal pressure. Well then, don't. Then stay home. But if you come to the event and if you do these, if you dress up, stop judging people that are worried about their physical appearance and want to improve it. And that's part of the lifestyle. And it's 2023. It's not 1920.
Speaker 2:You know I got so relate to it exactly how you talked about that. It's like as much as I'm in the face of Irish Angel like I would be happily be the one behind the scenes just doing the work, and so when I was heavier, I would never get in photographs. I would. I would shy away from it and I still hate getting in photographs, like the photographs he saved me online. They're like avatars.
Speaker 1:That's not what it is me, but it's not me, I actually, I actually like you better than your photographs, to be honest with you, and I mean it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, but I'm so camera shy so I totally I had that whole. People would judge me all the time by my appearance and I would always be the very first person to put myself down in front of people so that no one else I would never give them the opportunity to do it. You know what I mean. And that's all destroying to somebody. So when I went through my gastric sleeve, so I'd read it till it was white, because I battled on and off for years, I was yo-yo dieting all the time and then I got really sick and I'm an asthmatic and I got had to get the job and the job put me in hospital with a blood clot and I was like I have to do something and so I did.
Speaker 2:But the difference in me I'm still shy, like I will talk to anybody. Put me in a room, 100 people, I'll yuck, yuck, yuck away, no problem. But when it comes to standing up and me being the center of attention, I hate it. I actually hate it and it's so ironic given the work I do. But I'm like just from that and I know it's in here For me. It's in here, right, the constant beating down on your appearance, because I've had that all my life and I've had that where people put me down and so people would comment on how you look or whatever. And yes, I have to look a certain way now given the role that I'm in.
Speaker 2:But does it mean that in here is fixed, that you can fix this? It will make you feel better? But sometimes that's my trauma, that part of my trauma, that has to heal and it is. It's getting better all the time. But it's good people like you who help people like us feel better. And that is the start. Like you just said, it's the beginning of the rest of your life and people need to understand that just because someone goes for cosmetic surgery doesn't mean that they're vain. It doesn't mean that they're, you know, they're up to themselves or whatever. And it means sometimes they have issues and it stems with here or with the support network of people they have around them. Toxic people reads horrible stuff on good people and it has a profound impact on their well-being. So I appreciate people like you, trust me, and I never judge anybody. I never judge anybody on improving themselves. If that's what they want to do, go, do you.
Speaker 2:If it makes you happy, do it. Well luckily for a short while luckily it is changing.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely right. Luckily that is changing, even though slowly. But if I just look at the past 10 years, we've come a long way. And I love the new generation. I love the millennials and Gen Z's. They're extremely intelligent. They're a highly intelligent generation that is more in touch with themselves. It's more honest than my generation, which is Gen X, or even the millennials that are all you know. Their behaviors are led by stigmatae and just judgment, self-judgment even, and it's usually the people that judge themselves, judge others the most, and that's something that I noticed during my career and my line of work.
Speaker 1:But it's important to talk about these things because I feel the more you talk about these things, the more normal they become. And then, all of a sudden, people will come out and they will voice and I've seen that on social media when people say, okay, I guess he's talking about it, hey, I'll share my story too, and then someone else comes out and is like, yeah, me too. And then all of a sudden, we have more people talking about it, and to me, progress always starts with a conversation. And then, when the conversation happens, that's when the chips just fall in the right place. And so, opening up the conversation, which is what we are doing today in essence, and I hope this episode will be shared by people, just so others that don't know about you and me can listen to this and know that, oh wow, so there are people that are aware of this problem, so it is okay to talk about it, and that's what I'm trying to raise is awareness. But, just like you, not just awareness, but also at work, I try to do every day something about it.
Speaker 1:With my patients that I come in touch, I'm in a unique situation where I meet strangers every single day of my life and they let me into their lives through their stories and I get to help them, and I consider this a privilege and I'm so grateful because by doing so, I gain so much more perspective that helps me in my personal life so much more. That's how I've grown as a person through my patient's stories, through gaining more perspective, realizing, oh wow, for example, I thought I have problems. I guess, compared to that person, I'm not really that bad in a bad situation, or vice versa. You find someone that's in a similar situation. You're like, oh my God, me too, and then you share experiences and then all of a sudden it doesn't look like a problem anymore just because you just talked about it. And I think conversations are so much more valuable and people underestimate it. And for what you guys do, a lot of it is just helping people to come out and crying for help and getting help just by talking to them. So I wish there was an Irish angel everywhere, in every profession, and one of the things I hope you guys get into and is to also help or not forget about those in training, because the training for medical residents is anywhere from four to seven years and that's during a time when you're in your 20s and early 30s where you don't have life experience, where you just thrown out there and you're supposed to deal with certain pressures that you've never even imagined exist and you're expected to deal with it without any help.
Speaker 1:And I remember the first day I had to tell in the trauma center. I had to tell a parent that they're 17 year old after eight gunshot wounds that didn't make it. I was in the trauma bay and we tried everything we could and unfortunately he didn't make it. And I remember his face and I remember him asking, before we put him to sleep, if he's gonna die. And I told him don't worry, we got you. And then 30 minutes later I felt a hand on my shoulder. I said you need to go talk to the family. And because he didn't make it and then I looked at was one of the nurses and said why I have to go? Like isn't that the attending's job? I'm just a resident, just like the attending is. In the operating room there's no one but you here. A doctor has to go and talk to the family. And I couldn't refuse. I couldn't say no and I didn't know what to say. I didn't even know the words. No one has taught me had taught me how to say it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So and then, nurses, don't worry, a social worker will be coming with you and then you just you have to explain the cause of death and break the news, and then the social worker will take over. I'm like, okay, next thing, the social worker was there, we'll go to the waiting room. It was a packed waiting room. There was like 50 people there and 20 of them were family members. Like the whole family of the kid had come to the hospital. And I walked. I didn't know who I'm supposed to talk to. I keep looking and I'm like who's the parent? So, as I call the family name, the mother and the father come approach me and before I could say who I am, or hello, she said did my baby make it? Did my? How's my baby doing? How's my baby doing? And I'm shaking right now telling the story because all those emotions, I'm reliving it. But I just didn't know what to say. So I said, as soon as I said sorry. When I saw her face I got so much anxiety I thought she's going to like attack me or something, or she's going to blame me. And I said we did everything we could and then all of a sudden, she grabs me and she shakes me, screaming no, no, and then she just slams herself on the floor and cries. And then everybody came some of them were angry and next thing I see I'm in the air, I'm airborne and I'm moving backwards. And I look, look to my back. One of the security people had literally picked me up and was running me towards the exit of the waiting room, back into the trauma center, back for my own safety. And then the door slams and I didn't know.
Speaker 1:It took me a moment to realize what just happened and I was so perplexed. No one came and I was all by myself Because there was no one there, and the security just asked me are you okay, doc? I said yeah, I'm okay. And I said thanks for getting me out of there. He says, yeah, no problem, that you know, we do that all the time. And he said again are you okay? I'm like yes, I wasn't okay. But I just said yes. And then he left and I just I remember I sat on a chair and I just started crying.
Speaker 1:Because I was crying, because I couldn't cope with that. I couldn't process it. I didn't know this is going to happen. I didn't know what I'm supposed to do now. Should I talk to someone about it. Should I go say I'm not going to do this again? Or like why don't you guys teach us how to do this? Like, can at least someone tell us what I can expect? Like just go there and talk to them and tell them, like what are you talking about? Like this is someone's child. And now, thinking back right, so, and every day, whenever someone came through the door, I was worried that I'm going to have to go and tell the family. I had this anxiety and so while I'm working, I was always scared that what if they don't make it? And a lot of people don't make it right. No, when you come to a trauma center with eight gunshot wounds, I mean your chances are pretty slim, your chances are pretty slim.
Speaker 1:So, and for me this was just two months rotation, right. And for people, some of these trauma residents or surgeons, they do that day in and day out, like I don't know how I get, like, how do you do that, how do you cope with it? And yes, you know there are a lot of alcoholism is, in that profession, a problem, you know they. They try to still it with alcohol or drugs or just, I guess, encapsulating themselves because they can't show weakness, can they? They can't complain, can they? Because you're supposed to do that, that's your job. And if you can't do that, then go sell ice cream, you know. Go tell stories in elementary school and read books to children in elementary school. But then who else is going to do this? You know what, if, what, if? You're passionate about this, you know. But then, you know, support us.
Speaker 2:You know, of course, you just have to cope with it. You gave me chills when you were saying that, because my brother was killed in a car accident in 93.
Speaker 1:Oh sorry.
Speaker 2:No, it's okay, but we, how you just described the family being there and everything just brought it back to me and I always remember it was a because David was. David died at the scene. Well, en route to the hospital he died, but we went in to see him and my mother I always remember my mother and she was just vomiting. She was, she was just in a bad, bad way. But I always remember the, the. We call them bangards, so a police officer in Ireland, a female, is called a banger. So I always remember looking over her and she was a young girl she was only young and she was crying and it was her first time that she ever to tell somebody that their child was dead. And she brought my heart. She really did. And so when I, when I heard you say that, it just brought it back to me.
Speaker 2:And you know one thing about and again trying to change the culture between civilians and first responders is if a police officer stops you when he's in a pissy humour, you can be sure his eggs is eggs. He's in a pissy humour for a reason. You don't know if he's just come from telling somebody that their loved one is dead. You don't know if he's what scene he's at or what he's seen that triggered his PTS. And I'm not justifying someone's attitude, I'm really not. But we need to be like you said earlier on. There has to be More kind humanity out there, like we have to be more mindful of people.
Speaker 2:You know that we are human beings, regardless of our professions.
Speaker 2:We are human beings and they and you see, you have seen some of the worst things that anybody could ever see.
Speaker 2:You know, like firefighters go in and see born bodies and you guys get them into the hospital. Then right, it's just a continuation you see things bodies that are mangled in car accidents. You see, you know, you see the worst scenes, smells, you know everything and people don't realise that that it does have such a profound effect on you and, although we compare, mentalise it, things will trigger that sense, will trigger that you know, seeing something driving down the street that you once seen an accident on, that was serious and it had an impact on your life or like for you, if you, if you you're seeing victims come through the door, it might trigger something that you've seen that really affected you on a particular day. We just all, as human beings, need to be more mindful about each other, Be kinder to each other. We're not, we're nasty, People are nasty, and I think if the world was a little bit more kinder, the world would be a better place, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Thank you I. These were, these were great words of wisdom and advice and I actually want to leave it at that, because what you just said, like amen to that, and I can summarise it in one word, which is called actually two words. It's called empathy and compassion, and that was very well and beautifully said, and I hope people listen to what Amanda just said very, very carefully, especially the people that are in power, that are in media and care about their own agenda more about the common agenda. And with that, from the bottom of my heart, thank you, amanda for coming on and I really hope that a lot of people will listen to this. And how can people get in touch with you if you can say it on air? It's just irishangelorg.
Speaker 2:You can reach out to us there and again, we're on all social media platforms. Linkedin is our main one, but we are on all of them, so just reach out to anybody I mean, in any profession that's feeling in any way like they're struggling and they just want someone to talk to or listen to. That we will listen. You know we're there. That's what we do. No one is alone and I know people get to a breaking point sometimes where they can't see the wood for the trees, but you're really, really not alone. There is people out there and on irishangel's team that will talk to you, that have been in those trenches with you. So please reach out to us, please.
Speaker 1:And I will share Amanda's links in the caption of the podcast. So if you want to get in touch with her and donate to her foundation, you will essentially help yourself by helping the first responders, the very people that come when you dial 911. Don't forget. Thank you very much, amanda. Thank you All right guys. Episode's over Hope.
Speaker 1:You enjoyed my conversation with the irish angel, the one and only Amanda Coleman. It was a very emotional conversation for me as I had to show my vulnerable side, but it was a very safe place talking to Amanda, and I'm so glad that there are angels like her amongst us that help us when we need them and that support us and lift us up when we are trying to lift others up. So please, don't forget to do the most important thing. If you really enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to leave me a review on Apply Tunes and leave comments on Spotify. That way, others will get the benefit that you got to be listening to what you thought brought you to Amanda's Valley. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you very much and until next time. Have a great night and Godspeed.