The Worlds Okayest Pastor
Faith. Life. Real Talk.
I’m a pastor with a deep passion for teaching God’s Word and helping people discover a meaningful relationship with Christ. But I’m also human—living in the same world you do, facing the same ups and downs.
This space is where faith meets everyday life. I don’t want to ignore the struggles we all face—whether spiritual, emotional, or practical. My hope is to walk alongside you, offering truth, grace, and guidance for both this life and the one to come.
Let’s grow together.
The Worlds Okayest Pastor
The "Even If" Mentality: Standing Firm When Everything Burns
What does true faith look like when everything is on the line? The story of three men facing a blazing furnace offers us a profound answer that challenges our expectations about how God works in our darkest moments.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego stood before the most powerful ruler in the world, faced with an impossible choice: bow to a golden idol or burn alive. Their response resonates through the centuries: "Our God can save us... but even if He doesn't, we still won't bow." This remarkable "even if" mentality represents the pinnacle of spiritual maturity—faith that isn't conditional on favorable outcomes.
We often pray for God to spare us from the furnace altogether. We want the healing before the diagnosis, the provision before the lack, the restoration before the breakdown. Yet these three men teach us something profound about where miracles actually happen. God didn't prevent them from being thrown into the fire; He showed up within it. The king witnessed not just three men surviving, but four figures walking freely among the flames.
This powerful narrative directly contradicts the prosperity gospel so prevalent today. Faith doesn't guarantee a life free from suffering—it offers us something far better: the assurance of God's presence in our suffering. What if the greatest demonstration of God's power isn't in keeping us from the fire, but in revealing Himself to us and through us while we're in it?
When you're facing impossible circumstances, remember that the miracle may not be in the escape. It may be that when everything around you burns, you discover you're not walking alone. And sometimes, like Nebuchadnezzar witnessing God in the furnace, the people watching you go through the fire might see something of God they never would have seen otherwise.
Subscribe now to explore more stories of faith that stands firm when tested by fire. Share your own "even if" moments in the comments below!
God, as always, we thank you so much for who you are. Thank you for everything that you do. We pray for the sacrifice that you make. God, I pray this morning as we get into the Word, as we wrestle with some difficult topics, set our heart at ease, give us peace, give us understanding. God, as always, I pray that the words that come out of my mouth are not mine. It's always you, god, it has to be. I'm not enough, but with you I am. Spirit, guide me, spirit, lead me, spirit, give me everything I need in this moment, and we love you. We thank you In Jesus' name. We pray, amen, amen.
Speaker 1:So the book of Daniel is such an interesting. Daniel ends up being an interpreter of dreams. The people are in exile. They've been taken out of their home.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you've ever been in another country before, but I can tell you that being in another country sometimes is disorienting A lot of times. I remember the first time I went to Guatemala, heavily speaking Spanish country, and the only Spanish I had was when I was in high school and I think I barely passed my Spanish class right. But I remember getting down there and we had an interpreter with us and we had someone who was with us, but just being there for a week was just crazy. The food was different, the culture was different. I was pretty convinced that everyone was talking about me because I was taller than everyone there by like a foot, so like I would walk by people and they would mumble something in Spanish, and I was like I hope that's good, because I have no idea. But there's something about being in another country that another culture is disorienting. And so Daniel and his friends have been taken into captivity, into Babylon, and their whole lives have been rearranged. And so, and their whole lives have been rearranged. And so the three gentlemen we're going to talk about today. Their names were changed to Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, so their identity has been stripped from them. Externally, right. They've allowed the culture to kind of define who they are, but not internally. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego are three young men who, like Daniel, have chosen to follow God, and they've committed to following God no matter what comes, and that's important.
Speaker 1:So Daniel, chapter 2, king Nebuchadnezzar has a dream, and he dreams of this giant gold statue that has all these different layers. And if you follow how the dream ends, excuse me, if you follow the dream and how it ends. God is basically saying to Nebuchadnezzar listen, you're at the top, you're the gold and your kingdom's great, but there's going to be a bunch of kingdoms after you, but really, in the end, my kingdom will last forever. So Daniel talks about this giant rock that hits this rock of earth, it smashes the statue and it's the only thing remaining. And so Nebuchadnezzar hears all of this and he praises Daniel. And he praises Daniel and he worships Daniel, essentially because of how incredible he was. And then Nebuchadnezzar, in all of his narcissism, goes and builds a 90-foot tall gold statue of himself Excellent, she's a good wife, she really is, she really is, really is, she's amazing. You guys have no idea. So nebuchadnezzar has this moment where he decides he, he, he sees this dream and he decides I'm going to build a giant gold statue of me. Mean, talk about someone who's full of himself. And on top of that he says now, all of you who live here have to worship this gold statue of me. Seems weird, but Nebuchadnezzar, he's full of himself, right?
Speaker 1:So Daniel, chapter 3, verse 1, it says King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide, and set it up on the plain of Dora in the province of Babylon, sets it right in the middle. He then summoned the satraps, the prefects, the governors, advisors, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials that come to the dedication of the image he had set up. So the satraps, prefects, governors, advisors, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials assembled for the dedication of the image the king Nebuchadnezzar had set up, and they stood before it setup. Whoever does not fall down in worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace. By the way you notice, there's not even a warning. If you mess up, he says, you will be thrown into a blazing furnace. So if you do not do what I want you to do, I will kill you. We talked about this in Daniel, chapter 2.
Speaker 1:Evil people use death as a deterrent. Continuing in verse 7, it says therefore, as soon as they heard the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp and all kinds of music, all the nations and peoples of every language fell down and worshipped the image of gold the king Nebuchadnezzar had set up. So, upon hearing the music, everyone in attendance bowed down and falsely worshipped Nebuchadnezzar. That's important, right. They didn't do it because they wanted to. They didn't do it because they felt compelled to. They did it because they had to. They were forced to do it For fear of their life. They had to bow down and worship. So even the intention of the audience was not genuine. Most of them were exiles, most of them had taken from other countries. They weren't worshiping Nebuchadnezzar because they liked him, they were worshiping him. They were worshiping the statue because if they didn't, they would die, except for three men.
Speaker 1:So we come to find out that Shadrach, meshach and Abednego again, these are friends of Daniel's who are now in exile. They have decided to follow God and only God, to only worship God. We see this in Daniel 1, when they only eat the fruit and the vegetables and they drink only the water. They abstain from the meats and the feasts because they want to honor themselves by committing to God. They might have lost their name, but they knew who they were. They understood that they were going to worship God, no matter what.
Speaker 1:So how do you reconcile living for God, worshiping God, worshiping God in a culture that's forcing you to worship someone else? How do you find the balance? Because what's going to happen and the threat is, if they don't worship Nebuchadnezzar, they'll die. So I think there's a couple options. You either worship. You can worship and bow down to the golden statue when you mean it and you abandon your faith. Or maybe you bow down to the statue but you don't really mean it. You like cross your fingers behind your back when you're worshiping the statue, like it doesn't really matter, but in private you worship God. Maybe you do nothing, maybe you stand and you make no decision. You just sit on the sideline and decide that I'm not going to participate. Or maybe and this is where it gets hard maybe you decide to stick to who you are and you stick to the knowledge of who God is. Maybe you decide that you're going to stand for God in chaos, that you're going to stand and worship the one true king, in spite of the king who physically is ruling. And so this is where Shadrach, meshach and Abednego it becomes a challenge for them, starting in Daniel 3, verse 8, it said At this time, some astrologers came forward and denounced the Jews.
Speaker 1:They said to King Nebuchadnezzar may the king live forever. You know they're buttering him up. Your majesty has issued a decree that everyone who hears the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music must fall down and worship the image of gold, and that whoever does not fall down and worship will be thrown into a blazing furnace. But there are some Jews whom you have set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, shadrach, meshach and Abednego, who pay no attention to you, your majesty. They neither serve your gods nor worship the image of gold you have set up. It's interesting, because it's not Nebuchadnezzar that notices this, by the way. It's these men who are jealous of them, and they go to the king and they say listen, everyone's supposed to worship you, but these guys aren't. And you, now, you know what you have to do, right, you have to murder them. They refuse to listen to you. Oh, great and wise king.
Speaker 1:So, continuing in verse 13, furious with rage, nebuchadnezzar summoned Shadrach, meshach and Abednego. So these men were brought before the king, and Nebuchadnezzar said to them is it true, shadrach, meshach and Abednego? So these men were brought before the king, and Nebuchadnezzar said to them Is it true, shadrach, meshach and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the image of gold I have set up? Now, when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music. If you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand? So Shadrach, meshach and Abednego are in a difficult place.
Speaker 1:You know, when we talk about one of the hardest conversations that I think I have, not only personally, but just with people who are not really Christians or people who aren't really in tune with the church, but they have a lot of questions. Well, one of the first questions that is often asked is how do you reconcile the fact that bad things happen and you claim to serve a good God? And listen, I'll be completely honest, I don't think that's a really easy question to answer. Sometimes and I think it's easy when you're standing on this side of it and you're not going through it, but like when you're walking with people through life, like cancer diagnosis or moms, maybe they have miscarriages or illness or death, or when people lose their job and lose their home, when you're walking through turmoil with people, it's hard to sit there and say that, listen, it's going to be okay. I believe that, by the way, but sometimes, when you're going through life. The answer to that question is not always easy, but sometimes the answer is because there's evil people in the world, there's bad people in the world who mean to harm us, to hurt us.
Speaker 1:Shadrach, meshach and Abednego had done nothing wrong. They were serving like they were supposed to. They were doing exactly what the king expected. It wasn't until these other men came along and they ruined it for them. So sometimes the problems we have in our life, it's not because of anything we did, but it's because people are evil and the world has sin and there's conflict.
Speaker 1:I don't blame God for that. I know he's aware of it, but I don't blame God for it because every person has a decision to make. Nebuchadnezzar could have chosen to follow God, but instead he follows himself. And so when you follow yourself, when you're focused on your needs, your desires, what you want, you oftentimes will walk all over other people to get there right. So all of this is happening simply because Nebuchadnezzar was full of himself.
Speaker 1:And in verse 16, this is this is what, when I said earlier Shadrach, meshach and Abednego might have had different names, but they knew who they were. So, starting in verse 10, it says Shadrach, meshach and Abednego replied to him King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. If we are thrown in the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from your majesty's hand. But even if he does not, he will deliver. We want you to know, your majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up. Shadrach, meshach and Abednego drew a line in the sand. They said king, god will save us, but even if he doesn't, you're not getting worship from us. We will gladly lose our lives just so that you know you are not our king. We do not, we will not, we have not, nor will we ever worship you. Even if God chooses not to save us in this moment, you will know that we died only worshiping the one who's eternal. And I love this because, if you understand so, shadrach, meshach and Abednego, when they make this statement, when they talk about God saving them, this is their history.
Speaker 1:In the book of Exodus, god saved them from Egypt. I can imagine they heard stories from mom and grandma and dad and uncles and aunts as it passed down through the histories. They heard stories of the deliverance from Egypt. They heard stories of the provision in the wilderness. They had stories of the crossing of the Jordan River in Joshua. They had stories of the crossing of the Jordan River in Joshua. They heard stories of the conquest of Jericho, also in Joshua. They heard stories of the deliverance during the time of the judges. They heard stories of deliverance from foreign enemies during the kings. So this is 1 Samuel and 2 Kings. They had grown up knowing who God was, knowing what God was capable of, and they were not worried about the outcome. They understood that whether or not God saved them didn't change who he was.
Speaker 1:Deuteronomy 31.6. Moses writes this. It says be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or terrified Because of them, for the Lord, your God, goes with you, will never leave you nor forsake you. Joshua 1.9. It says have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid, do not be discouraged, For the Lord, your God, will be with you wherever you go.
Speaker 1:Shadrach, meshach and Abednego understood that Nebuchadnezzar might take their life, but he can never take their soul. Even if God doesn't save us, understand, o King, we will not worship you. Can you imagine having that kind of faith that, as your world is falling apart, as everything is falling apart, as everything is unwinding, that you can stand in the face of adversity. You can stand in the face of a king who wants to kill you and say it doesn't matter what you do to us, we're not yours, understand, we do not worship you. I wonder what was going through Shadrach, meshach and Abednego's mind.
Speaker 1:You go back to Daniel, chapter 2, and Daniel kind of interpreted the dream and they were supposed to be murdered and Daniel kind of like turns it sideways, right, it doesn't happen. So you get to Daniel 3, and Shadrach, meshach and Abednego they're in this situation and they're praying. I can only imagine they're praying fervently that God will save them, god will protect them, that God will keep them from going into the furnace. If I was them, that would be my prayer. Dear God, either kill me now or stop this from happening altogether. I don't want to be thrown into a fiery furnace, especially because they had done nothing wrong. They didn't deserve this.
Speaker 1:You know one of the things that I struggle with probably the most, and maybe you've heard it, maybe you haven't, but there's this idea that floats around in some churches that's known as the prosperity gospel, and the idea behind the prosperity gospel is, if you tithe the right amount, if you pray enough, if you do the right things, if you live a righteous life, you'll never experience any poor health, you'll never experience financial burdens, that everything will always work out for you. There are churches every Sunday that get up and they teach this. That as long as you do these things, if you're really focused on God, he's going to give you every desire of your heart, no matter what. By the way, I'm just going to say this the only people who seem to prosper in prosperity gospels are the people who are preaching it. Those are the ones who seem to benefit from it. But when you think about it, though, I understand why the prosperity gospels has such an appeal to it. How could it not? You mean to tell me that if I say the right thing, if I pray the right thing, if I do the right thing, god's going to give me everything that I want. How in the world could we not be excited for that want? How in the world could we not be excited for that? I think it draws people.
Speaker 1:There's an author named Kate Bauer, or Bowler, and there's a book that I got from her recently and it's titled Everything Happens for a Reason and All the Other Lies that I Love. It's kind of a tongue-in-cheek thing but she's actually a historian who has studied kind of the prosperity gospel and how it's grown in the church in this country and she'll tell you and if you read her book she despises it. However, at 35 years old she was diagnosed with terminal cancer and she writes in this book that she understood why people longed for that, because all she wanted was to be healed. That's all she wanted. She wanted God to spare her life so that her kids didn't have to raise up without a mom. She wanted God to spare her life so that her husband didn't have to raise up without a mom. She wanted God to spare her life so that her husband didn't have to try to figure it out on her own. So she had colleagues and churches and her university was praying for her and praying for her. And then so she writes that she understands why the prosperity gospel is so important, because when you look at life and the burden of life, it reflects it to this lens that everything is going to be okay, that faith is always going to make a way and everything is going to happen exactly like we want it to.
Speaker 1:But. But the problem is is you and I live in the real world and we realize that doesn't always happen. Healing doesn't always come. Healing doesn't always come. Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't always change. Sometimes our kids walk away from God and they never come back. We live in this constant struggle of wanting things our way, except Shadrach, meshach and Abednego. I think their approach is impressive Because they say, on one hand, that we know that God can save us, but, nebuchadnezzar, even if he doesn't, that doesn't change anything. We will die knowing that we will not give our life and our worship to you, even if it doesn't work out.
Speaker 1:Having an even if mentality means we don't just worship God for what he can do. We worship him for who he is. It means our faith is not conditional on outcomes. It says even if I don't get the healing, even if the relationship isn't restored, even if the breakthrough doesn't come the way I hoped, I will still trust, still praise, still follow. This kind of faith doesn't ignore pain. It stands in the middle of it with confidence in God's character. It shifts our focus from what we want to what God knows is best and when we live with, even if faith, we declare to the world that God is enough, not just in the blessing but also in the battle.
Speaker 1:Nebuchadnezzar is furious. Daniel, chapter 9, or chapter 3, verse 19. It says that Nebuchadnezzar is furious. Daniel 3, verse 19. It says that Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. The king's command was so urgent and the furnace was so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. They were thrown into the fire. God didn't save them before the fire. They were bound, they were tossed. They were tossed in this furnace that was so hot that it killed the men that took them. But verse 24,. Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisors weren't there three men that were tied up and threw into the fire? They replied certainly your Majesty. He said Look, I see four men walking around the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like the sons of the gods. Can you imagine that moment? Not only were they untied and walking around, but all of a sudden there's four of them in this furnace that had killed the men who just dropped them in. They're walking around as if nothing had happened.
Speaker 1:I have a hard time sometimes reconciling this in my mind, because I can tell you that sometimes, when I pray for things, I want God to deliver me before the bad thing comes. That's what I want. I want God to deliver me. It sounds this is going to sound stupid to you. It's funny to me, though I think Daniel's probably going to be mad at me. I think that I'm blessed because every time I go anywhere, to any kind of store, there's always a Parkins bar right up front. It's always there for me. I'm not even kidding. This happens so much that every time I find one, I'm just like thank you Jesus. Because I'm not even kidding, this happens so much that every time I find one, I'm just like thank you Jesus, because I'm convinced that God, with everything going on in the world, god's like let's make sure Jason has a parking spot. Really, I think he does it for the sake of my kids and my wife because I'm the guy that drives around and so I find one, right, but it's funny, right?
Speaker 1:But that's how short-sighted we are. Sometimes we're focused on whether or not I have a parking spot instead of worrying about whether or not my neighbor knows Jesus. We're worried about whether or not I have all of my needs met, but forgetting there's people all around us that we could help that we choose not to. We're worried about whether or not we're entertained throughout the day. If we like everything in the church that's happening, whether it's the music or the lights. We're more worried about that than whether or not the Word is being taught truthfully in the pulpit. We allow ourselves to be consumed with these things and listen. I'm not trying to undermine that. I think God cares about those things. I think he cares about my life. I think he cares about who I am. I think he cares about the little details of my life, but you and I oftentimes get so focused on it that we actually miss what's happening. We actually miss in those moments what's going on right? So Shadrach, meshach and Abednego they could have been upset that God didn't save them from the fire. And again, that's where I have a hard time reconciling, because why wouldn't God spare them that? And instead what we see is they're thrown into the blazing furnace, they're set free and they're walking around.
Speaker 1:So Daniel 3, chapter 26 through 30, says Nebuchadnezzar then approached the opening of the blazing furnace and shouted Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, servants of the most high God. By the way you realize, he shifted his focus All of a sudden. Nebuchadnezzar's like I'm God and you're gonna worship me. But he says there's no other gods, right. But he says to Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out, come here.
Speaker 1:So Shadrach, meshach and Abednego came out of the fire. The middle child in me would be like no, you come here, you come in. But they come out of the fire and the satraps, prefects, governors and royal advisors crowded around them. They saw that the I can't even walk by someone's house with a bonfire and not smell like smoke. But they didn't even smell like fire. It appeared as if nothing had happened to them.
Speaker 1:Then Nebuchadnezzar said Praise be to the God of Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants. They trusted in him and defied the king's command and were unwilling to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own god. Therefore, I decree that the people of any nation or language who say anything against the god of Shadrach, meshach and Abednego again, he's going a little extreme be cut into pieces and their houses be turned into piles of rubble. For no other god can save in this way. The most narcissistic king, who made a gold statue of himself, acknowledges that no other God can save this way. What would have happened had they not been in the fire? What would have happened if they just went about their life? What would have happened if they would have worshipped this statue? Nebuchadnezzar would have never had an encounter with the true God of creation.
Speaker 1:What if the miracle doesn't come until you're in the fire? What if it's not before the diagnosis, before the heartbreak, before the disappointment, but right in the middle of it? That's exactly what we see in Daniel 3. God didn't prevent the furnace. He showed up inside it. The miracle wasn't in the avoidance of pain, it was in his presence during it. Sometimes we want God to rescue us before the struggle, but often his greatest work is done when we're standing in the heat, completely dependent on him. That's where faith is refined. That's where idols fall away. That's where we see him most clearly, not as a distant God who keeps us from trouble, but a faithful Savior who meets us in it. So if you're in the fire right now, don't lose heart. The miracle may not be in the escape. It may be that you're not alone in the flames.
Speaker 1:That rings true in so many parts of our lives, because so often we find ourselves. This is why the prosperity gospel when you really break it down, it doesn't make sense. Because we talk about how, if we have enough faith, everything is going to be okay and work out in our favor. And then you and I have to walk through life and be broken. We experience loss, we experience hurt, we experience suffering and the way that they teach the prosperity gospel. They say it's your fault that all of this is happening. But that's not what we see in Scripture. We see a God who is sovereign and even though he knows all things and things happen he's still in it and he's still in it. Being able to find God in the furnace is the hardest thing we have to do, but it's sometimes the greatest thing for our faith. If God gave me everything that I wanted every single time I asked for it, I'd have no resilience, I'd be spoiled, I'd be a brat.
Speaker 1:Suffering is not easy. I would argue that suffering. If you go back to the beginning, suffering wasn't part of this. They didn't have that wasn't part of this. They didn't have that in the Garden of Eden. Suffering came because sin came into the world and it ruined everything.
Speaker 1:But God responded to that brokenness and sent Jesus to die. He healed that, he fixed the problem. It doesn't mean it happens here. Sometimes we don't get it until the next life. Sometimes we don't experience the relief, we don't experience the healing, we don't experience the answer. But if we live in Christ, if we've accepted Christ, if we've made the decision to follow him, we can rest assured that what's coming next is what matters, because at the end of this world, all of my suffering and your suffering will go away.
Speaker 1:So when people ask me the question how do you reconcile suffering in a world like this and you're talking about how good your God is, and my answer is probably pretty simple I didn't. I didn't reconcile anything. God did. God saw all of the brokenness, all of the sin, everything that was going on in the world and he sent Himself as His Son to die. He took it all, all of the pain, all of the misery, all of the suffering, so that you and I can be raised to life with him when it's all over. I don't have an easy answer for why you and I might go through things, but I can say that a relationship with Jesus makes it a whole lot easier. That peace and knowing so the outcome of Daniel 3 is truly worth celebrating.
Speaker 1:God showed up in the fire, delivered his people and revealed his glory to the world. But we also have to acknowledge that it doesn't always end that way. Sometimes, despite our faith, the fire still burns, the healing doesn't come, the door doesn't open, the miracle doesn't happen the way we had hoped. And yet the power of this story isn't just in the rescue, it's in the resolve, it's in the faith that says, even if he does not. And they still refuse to bow. That kind of faith God honors, not because it's guaranteed deliverance, but because it clings to him above all else. So, yes, celebrate the victory, but also learn to worship in the uncertainty, knowing that, whether he delivers us from the fire or walks with us through it. Our God is still good and he is always enough. That's right.