The Worlds Okayest Pastor
Faith. Life. Real Talk.
I’m a pastor with a deep passion for teaching God’s Word and helping people discover a meaningful relationship with Christ. But I’m also human—living in the same world you do, facing the same ups and downs.
This space is where faith meets everyday life. I don’t want to ignore the struggles we all face—whether spiritual, emotional, or practical. My hope is to walk alongside you, offering truth, grace, and guidance for both this life and the one to come.
Let’s grow together.
The Worlds Okayest Pastor
Why Personal Invitations Beat Perfect Sunday Services
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Church strategy loves the measurable stuff: seats, service flow, lights, kids check-in, and a first-time guest experience that feels flawless. We care about those details too, but after nearly 20 years in ministry we’ve had to admit something uncomfortable. When we keep asking, “How do we get more people in the church?” we can miss the better question: “What draws people to Jesus?”
We dig into research that points to a simple, human answer. People most often show up because someone they trust invited them. Not because the worship set was perfect or the building was impressive. That puts the focus back where Jesus put it: relationships. We walk through Luke 19 and the story of Zacchaeus, the wealthy chief tax collector who climbs a sycamore fig tree just to catch a glimpse. Jesus stops, calls him by name, and chooses his table, even while the crowd mutters about “a sinner.”
From there, the conversation gets practical and personal. We talk about how churches sometimes push away the very people the gospel is for, and why real hospitality means inviting someone into your life before you invite them into a service. We also share a story from high school, where one persistent friend kept inviting a resistant 15-year-old to youth group, an invitation that eventually reshaped an entire future. If you’ve ever wondered how to share your faith without turning people into projects, this is a roadmap.
If this hit home, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more people can find it. Who’s one person you can invite to your table this week?
Opening Prayer
SPEAKER_00Everything that you do. And God is always a I pray over the message and I just ask that you just protect the hearts of the people that it's connected to. God protect the words that are coming out of my mouth. It's always you, anyways. I'm just I'm a vessel. And so allow your word, your truth, these these words to give life, to bring conviction, to bring growth. Um, but it all rests on you. Spirit move in us, teach us, show us, help us understand as only you can. We love you. Thank you. So as we pray. Amen. I've uh I've been in ministry for uh almost 20 years now, which is really weird to think about. And uh so I started out uh in my 20s. So the church that I'm at now, I'm the senior pastor at. Uh, this was actually the first church that I ever worked at. I was the student pastor for a while, and then my wife and I um moved to Columbus, uh, planted, uh, helped plant a couple churches. Um, and along the way, I've had a bunch of odd jobs. Um, but but ministry by far is uh the greatest thing that I've ever done with my life, but it's also the hardest thing that I've ever done. And and so much of it is because it involves people. And and one of the questions that continues to baffle every church that I've ever been at, and every uh every minister that I've ever had coffee with is how do we get more people in the church? Right? I mean, you think about the the way that that
The Wrong Question About Growth
SPEAKER_00we design or the way the church functions is um so like our church is in the process uh of building a new building, and it's it's been a long time coming, but it is an exciting thing. And and one of the biggest questions we have is how do we get more space? How do we how do we put more seats? And and and that question uh evolves around almost how we do everything on Sunday morning, right? And and this is this is not a knock on how churches function, but just to give you some insight, we are heavily concerned about the first interaction people have with the church on Sunday morning, and we should be. I believe that we should do everything with excellence. But we invest time in uh lights, uh, some churches have fog machines, uh, you know, uh we were about instrumentation, you know, is the sound right? You know, we we're when people do we have a welcome team? What's the kid check-in system? Like, is our building functional? Do we have coffee and donuts, or do we have coffee and muffins, or do we have both? Like, we're so concerned, and those are not bad things, but but the problem with with those questions is sometimes I think we lose sight of what really draws people to church. And so again, I I've been doing this long enough that that the older I get, the more I realize that I think for the last 20 years I might have been asking the wrong question. You know, because I I remember when I came to the church that I am now, one of the first things I did was I started to shift how we did things on Sunday morning. And if you've ever been part of a church that's established and you try to change things, it's a fun ride, man. People don't like it. Some people love it. But but at the end of the day, that the question, I think we have to get away from what draws people to church, and what we need to ask ourselves is what draws people to Jesus. That that's one of the biggest things we see in the life of who Jesus is, is he was constantly drawing people to himself. Uh Lifeway Research and Barna, uh, these are a couple of research groups, have consistently show, and this is a little QA. What do you think the number one reason is people go to a church? If you had to pick, what do you think the number one reason is?
unknownCommunication with others.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I was about to say, like uh uh can uh connections. Okay.
unknownBecause it's Christmas time or Easter.
SPEAKER_00That's valid. Friends invited them. Friends invited them. I I there was a joke, I'm gonna come back to a joke that I heard one time. Was it? Snacks. What? Snacks. Snacks? That's possible. Some churches have snacks. I'm gonna digress by the way. There was a church one time that had a squirrel
Invitations Matter More Than Production
SPEAKER_00infestation, right? And and they tried everything they could to get rid of the squirrels, and it just would not happen. Every Sunday they were there. And so the pastor of the church comes to the elders and said, Listen, I've got a solution. He's like, What's that? Because we're gonna baptize them. And they're like, Whoa, we can't baptize squirrels, like they would die. He's like, No, no, we're gonna baptize them. So they found the squirrels, they captured them, they baptized them, and from then on they only showed up on Christmas and Easter. Um I heard that like 20 years ago. Um, but no, so but so the number one reason is because someone invited them. Believe it or not, people don't come because I'm a good preacher. I think I'm an okay preacher. People don't come because our our worship is the best, and we have the best lights, and we have the biggest building, and everything's put together. Now, those are important, but the number one reason people come to church is because someone they trusted invited them to come. And again, so so the question in my mind is constantly how do we get people to come to church? And the answer is you. People come because you cared enough to sit down with them, to build a relationship with them, and at just the right moment, to invite them to come and be a part of something bigger than themselves. This is why I love uh one of my favorite stories uh in the book of Luke. Uh Luke was a doctor, so Luke was a man of great detail. He wrote Luke, wrote Acts. Uh if you read to the gospel of Luke, he's he's very detail-oriented, and it's it's so much on purpose, right? He he wants to capture the moment. The story of Zacchaeus. And you know, the question is, well, it's it's it's 10 verses, right? There's a 10-verse section in Luke 19 where Luke talks about this interaction that Jesus has with this man named Zacchaeus. What in the world could we possibly learn in ten verses? And it's everything. So Luke chapter 19, and we're going to start with verses 1 through 6. It says, Jesus entered into Jericho and was passing through, and a man was there by the name of Zacchaeus. He was a chief tax collector and he was wealthy. Luke thought it was important enough for you and I to understand
Zacchaeus And The Sycamore Tree
SPEAKER_00that this was not just a normal man, but he was a chief tax collector and he was wealthy. He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short, he could not see over the crowd. So instead he ran ahead and he climbed a sycamore fig tree to see him. Then Jesus was coming that way. When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and he said to him, Zacchaeus, come down immediately, and I must stay at your house today. So he came down at once and he welcomed him gladly. So Luke starts off this encounter by pointing out a couple things. He actually told other tax collectors how to function. And he was wealthy. And so for his audience, Zacchaeus at the time would have not been seen as a great person. More than likely, he he gained, he gathered his wealth by abusing his power. This was a common thing, right? He worked for the Romans. And so Luke is letting you know that the audience understands that this man, Zacchaeus, is really, he's awful. He's a no-good scoundrel. He's probably, everything he has, he's taken off the back of hard-working people. That's important. And then Luke continues and says he's short. But he's interested in seeing who Jesus is. And I think that that's probably one of the most important parts of this is Zacchaeus, a man of great stature, a man of great wealth, a man who had everything that he probably could have ever needed, was still looking for something. And whether it's through conversations that he's heard about who Jesus is, or you know, uh, you know, Matthew being, you know, who's Levi being another tax collector that Jesus calls to follow him. Like maybe there's something that sparks Sechaeus' interest, and and he just wants to, he just wants to see him. He doesn't want to talk to him. He just wants to see what all the excitement is about. And so again, Luke being incredibly detail-oriented, says, tells us that he he climbed a sycamore fig tree. Now back then the sycamore and fig trees were common along the roadways because they're kind of like an upside down. You guys ever seen like a weeping willow? A sycamore fig tree is like inverted. So the branches come up and spread out and they create beautiful shade.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00So they were common among the uh the walkways and the streets because they provided shade as as people traveled. And so when you look at a sycamore fig tree, it comes up and it branches out, and the average height's about 50 to 60 feet, but it has low enough branches. If you guys anybody ever climbed trees when you were younger? Yeah. A sycamore fig tree was low enough that you could probably reach up and pull yourself up on a branch, right? And so this is great because that key is short, so he needs something that he can climb, but he can also reach because he's not gonna like ask someone to give him a boost. So he comes across this tree, and his goal is to climb in this tree. He wants to see Jesus, but he wants to make sure that no one else sees him. Why would you want to be seen by a crowd of people that despise you? And this tree provides perfect cover for this. It's low, he can climb it, there's tons of leaves and shade, so he can hide himself neatly and see the entire interaction of what's happening. And so Zacchaeus climbs this tree and he's watching Jesus as he comes along. And I love this detail. Jesus walks right up to the tree. Who knows how many trees were in his path? He walks right up to this tree. He looks up. And he doesn't ask Zacchaeus, hey, can I come over? He says, Hey, I'm coming to your house today. That would be like me showing up at your house and saying, hey, what's for dinner? Right? Jesus walks up and says, I'm coming to your house today. And Zacchaeus goes, okay. Because he's a he's a good, not a good tax collector, but but he's a man of prominence, right? So his house is open, it's available. So that's what he does. Jesus walks up, says, I'm coming to your house. And then Luke 19, 7. At the moment that this interaction happens, Luke says that all the people saw this and began to mutter, he is gone to be the guest of a sinner. The irony of that statement baffles me. All of these sinful people, they look at Zacchaeus and like, ugh, Jesus wants to hang out with a sinner. Why would you choose him? There has to be someone else in the crowd who's better. Maybe one of our Pharisees. Shouldn't he go to his house? I mean, a man of the law who follows the Bible or the Old Testament teachings. Why in the world would he choose to follow this man who's an enemy to us? He works for Rome. He robs
When The Church Mutters About Sinners
SPEAKER_00us, he steals from us, he he teaches others to do the same thing. Why in the world would he sit and eat and dine with a sinful man? Sometimes we're not welcoming the people that we've labeled as sinful. We had a situation that that I went through one time. And it really kind of broke my heart because I didn't know how to process what had happened. But we had a young family coming to our church that was new in their faith. I was excited. Um, I baptized them and married them on their porch the same day. Like their response to the gospel is beautiful, man. They've been together for 15 years, and they they said, if we're gonna give our life to Christ, we're gonna do this right. I mean, baptism to marriage is fantastic. And the longer they started, or the longer they kept coming, there was grumbling. Right? You you started to hear those those mutters. Because people knew who they were. They knew of their past, they they knew of their mistakes. And it broke my heart because I could not, for the life of me, figure out why we would ever complain about someone finding Christ. And and at the core of it, I don't think the people complaining were trying to be mean. I just think that they they misunderstood the purpose of why the church exists. Yeah. They're gonna reap what they sell. Well, that's between them and God. Lucky for me, I'm not God. But but I think I think that somewhere along the line, and and here's the thing, I I can tell you that example, right? And we think, oh, how dare they? But how many times have I personally rejected someone or refused to have a conversation with them because I considered them someone who either wasn't worthy of the gospel or someone who wouldn't respond to the gospel? And and so I've had to reflect on my own life. How many people have I not given an invitation to because I assumed that they would not respond in any way that would benefit me or them? Imagine if Jesus saw Zacchaeus in the tree and just kept walking. It was obvious the crowd had no interest in this man. He was a sinner, he was he was an awful human being. Why would they have anything to do with him? He probably, even with all of his popularity, all of his money, wasn't well liked. And yet the Savior, the one who would come as the Messiah, he tells him, he tells Zach, I am coming, he invites himself in to his life. And he has a meal with him. He sits at his table. And then Luke finishes this narrative in verse 8. He says, But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, Look, Lord, here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount. He says, Today salvation has come to this house. Because this man, too, is the son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and save the lost. Four chapters before this, we get three parables. Luke 15, the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the prodigal son. And again, I can only believe that Luke knew what he was doing. He gives us these parables, and then we see those parables lived out by Jesus Himself. I can't imagine you, I don't know the timeline, obviously, but at some point, as Jesus says that the Son of Man has come to save and seek the law, someone in that group thinks back to those parables and goes, Oh, I get it. I get what he means. The Savior of the world has come so that all may know him. Not just me, not those who are worthy, not those of high power or caliber, but everyone has an opportunity to find and be found by the Son of Man as he searches for them. What a radical idea that a sinner like Zacchaeus could find salvation. I I know I I talk about the church a lot. I know that I do that even when I I I preach. And it does, and and I think it should, it should break our hearts that that there are people sitting in churches all across the country that that just don't understand just how important the gospel is. That we would ever make anyone feel like they don't belong here. That we we would ever try to convince ourselves that that other people don't matter. That we would try to convince ourselves that if they could just clean themselves up, if they could just stop sinning, if they could just stop living in that lifestyle. The couple I baptized and then I married, I didn't marry them before they gave their life to Jesus. I did it after. Because the spirit worked in them in such a way that transformation came to them and they realized that if we're gonna do this, we're gonna do it right. Zacchaeus has the same interaction. The spirit moves. This interaction with Jesus, it changes him. He says, God, he says, Jesus, I'm gonna restore everything that I did wrong. If I robbed anyone, I'll give it back to him. Because when people have an authentic and a genuine encounter with Jesus, the only outcome is transformation. Again, this crowd of people says, How in the world could he go and eat with a sinner? Failing to realize that they're in the same category as he is. They're no different, they're no better, they're lost, they're broken. That that's what the church is supposed to be at. That's why that's why this conversation matters. You know, I don't think it's an anomaly that the reason why people come to church is because someone invited them. Because Jesus was highly relational. He knew that. He knew that people needed to know him long before they stepped foot in the synagogue. Long before they ever followed him. And then I would argue that most of the time, probably most of it, 95%. The reason why people come to church is because someone they had a meal with, someone they had coffee with, someone who they trust, spent time with them and didn't see them as someone to save, but as a person who needed to know Christ. I love tables because I think sitting at a table sometimes is the most difficult thing in the world. Because if you've ever sat
Hospitality And The Power Of Tables
SPEAKER_00down with someone who doesn't talk, you're like, I hope this food is good and I hope I don't eat too fast, right? But there's something about sitting at a table that that pushes us to fill the space, to build those relationships. I think about last night. We weren't even at a table. We were four guys in beds, right? Laying next to each other. And I I wanted the band to know that I play bass because that's important to me, right? I want these guys to know that I'm a cool musician, like they are, right? Even though that's not true. But what I love when happened is this conversation led to a much bigger conversation, right? We we had an interest, we we shared something together, and all of a sudden we're talking about kids and and how my kids have never watched WWE in their life, but they wrestled like they watch it every day. Like I don't understand it, right? But but there's something beautiful about sitting at a table that that we start to get to know each other, we start to spend time together, and you realize that that the person that that you have deemed unworthy of the cross is is just like you. That's what I love about this conversation. Jesus goes and he eats with Zacchaeus and it changes in his life. I think anybody that determines somebody doesn't eat Christ has to pick up a cross and move. Yeah. And and what I love about this is in ten verses, Luke gives us the gospel message. A broken, sinful man seeking a savior coming, finding, restoring, salvation. That's in ten verses, he tells us and he shows us that everyone is redeemable because redemption comes from the savior and not us. This is why it's so important to have conversations. This is why it's so important to eat with people who are different than you. Even if the crowd murmurs, even if your friends don't understand, even if your church doesn't understand, you and I have something beautiful. We have the message of Christ, and you and I are supposed to take this light to the world where most people don't go. The church should be the first people sitting with people who are LGBT. We should be the first people who are sitting with a couple that maybe has been caught in adultery. Maybe we know someone who's suicidal. Maybe we have friends who are atheists. Like we should be willing to sit, talk, and get to know them and build relationships with them because who knows what God can do with a sinner like me. And it starts long before the church. The goal is to get them connected to the church. Don't get me wrong, I think that's a beautiful thing, getting people into the community. But long before you invite them to church, you have to invite them to your table. You have to get to know them. They have to see you and trust you because they're not just another number to say, look how big our church is. It's a soul that needs saved. I didn't go to church anywhere. It's not true. We went on Easter and Christmas because that's what you're supposed to do. Right? But my family didn't go to church, it wasn't our thing. Fifteen years old, I think I'm a freshman in high school, and I was in math class, and I was okay at math, but I hated math. I still hate math, I think it's dumb. And now that I have kids, I don't know what they're teaching them, but it's a it's a mess. But I digress. I was in math class, and there was this kid in my math class, his name was Ryan Witkowski, and uh he was like super nice to me. Like him and I played on the football same football team together, and and he was like super nice to me, but I did not want to be his friend. Like, I like every time he talked to me, I treated him like junk. I was not polite to him. Like he was so positive and like outgoing, and I was like, please go sit anywhere else. Like, if you want to switch classes, I'm I'm good with that. And he had just moved to the areas from Massachusetts, and
Ryan’s Invite And A Changed Life
SPEAKER_00his dad uh was a uh uh he was a preacher at a local church called Word of Life, which is in Stoneville. And uh so Ryan, every day Ryan was he would try to talk to me. And I was like, please just stop. And uh so he started inviting me to his youth group on Wednesday night. And and I was like, no, like I'm I'm good. Like we go to church on Christmas and Easter, and that's that's what you're supposed to do, right? That's that's how this works. And uh every every time he saw me, he would say, Hey, you come to church? And I was like, Nope. Hey, yeah, we're doing this Wednesday. I was like, nope. I was like, I'm I'm I'm like, I don't I don't know how many times I'm gonna tell you no, but like clearly like this is a waste of time. And so this probably happens for a couple months. And uh so one Wednesday night, uh he's sitting around and he asked me, and we're in class, and he's like, Hey, we have a youth group tonight, do you want to come? And I could not come up with a reason to say no. Like, all my excuses have been exhausted, and so now, now it's like a social dilemma because I don't want to be a jerk, but I don't have a reason to lie to him. I said, Yeah, I guess. Like, uh why not? So I go home and I tell my mom, she's like, Why are you going to church? I'm like, because this kid wouldn't stop pestering me. And I'm hoping that if I go to church one time, he'll leave me alone and he'll never bother me again. So I go to church, and they've got a youth group, about 30 people. And uh, I'll be honest, my reason, I did go back, but my reason for going back wasn't Ryan. Her name was Jody. There's a really pretty girl there, and I was like, oh, she's cute. She's going to my school, you know. And so I went back the next Wednesday, and the Wednesday after that, and then the Wednesday after that, and then the Wednesday after that. And I kept going back because I found something on Wednesday nights that I didn't even realize that I was missing. I found a group of people just like me who were just trying to figure this life out. Right? It it wasn't this overly spiritual thing, but a lot of them had the same struggles that I did. So I kept going back and I kept going back and I kept going back. And eventually God got a hold of me and I got baptized when I was 16. I became a leader of the youth group by the time I was 16 and a half. I was on the youth worship team by the time I was 17. Oh yeah, what am I? 23 years later. This is my life now. I get to spend my life teaching people about the Jesus who found me. I remember when I got baptized, I told my youth pastor at a time, the only thing I want to do for the rest of my life is get people to this moment. The moment that they give their life to Christ, because it changed everything for me. All because one person. Because who knows what God's gonna do with the person you invite to sit at your table? Who knows what's gonna become of them? Who who knows the guy the plans that he has for them? You don't, they don't, but he surely does. I I would have never guessed at 15 years old that I'd be pursuing God in such a way that my entire life now is focused on getting people into the kingdom. And it started because one person decided that this stubborn 15-year-old kid was worth it. Jesus changed the life of Zacchaeus that day because he saw something no one else could see. He said he was a son of Abraham, he's a child of mind. And salvation has come to his house. I'm gonna pray here in a second. But before I do that, I we're gonna take kind of a moment to sit around this table. My guess would be that all of you can think of at least one person who brought you in, who invited you to sit at their table, who who invested in your life, who who helped you find and develop a relationship with God. And and and we want