SPEAKER_00: I want you to get to Luke chapter 19.
SPEAKER_00: Luke 19, we've been in this series called The Life You're Chasing.
SPEAKER_00: It's a value series where we're going through our three values: Jesus first, people always, made for more.
SPEAKER_00: I was reading a book this last week, and it's by a guy named Scott Salls.
SPEAKER_00: It is a fantastic book.
SPEAKER_00: It's called A Gentle Answer.
SPEAKER_00: And the whole book is just about God's gentle answer toward us, meaning his grace given toward us, who deserves something totally different, but God's kindness and his grace that's given to us.
SPEAKER_00: And he caught me from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_00: You know those books where you just like you read something from the very beginning, it just kind of catches your attention.
SPEAKER_00: He caught me from the very beginning in the introduction when he told about a guy, Dr.
SPEAKER_00: John Perkins, civil rights activist and pastor, that he was at a prayer breakfast and saw him speak.
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Dr.
SPEAKER_00: John Perkins has written some books, famous guy, lived a good life.
SPEAKER_00: Like lived a full life, but didn't live an easy life.
SPEAKER_00: You can see a picture of Dr.
SPEAKER_00: John Perkins.
SPEAKER_00: I would say that is a cool cat right there, man.
SPEAKER_00: That's a guy I would love to sit down with and just listen to his wisdom and all of that.
SPEAKER_00: And Scott Salls writes and he says, Man, John Perkins lived a full life, but not an easy life.
SPEAKER_00: And here's the hard part of his life.
SPEAKER_00: When he was born, he was an infant, his mom passed away.
SPEAKER_00: Dad couldn't handle it, couldn't handle he and his brother, and so his dad left, never to be seen again.
SPEAKER_00: Then the story goes on that as I grew up, his brother was killed in an altercation with Mississippi police officers.
SPEAKER_00: And then as a black man in the middle of the civil rights era, I mean, he endured all kinds of things.
SPEAKER_00: He endured beatings, he endured imprisonments, he endured death threats.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just go down the list that you could say of all the things.
SPEAKER_00: Some of you would say, yeah, some of my family, my grandparents, and their parents went through those things.
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, Scott Saul starts talking about John Perkins, and he says, This guy, this guy who could have preached a message, so he's a pastor and he was a civil rights leader, he could have preached a message of anger and revenge and hate, spent his life preaching a message of forgiveness and reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: Scott Saul said he was sitting at this prayer breakfast.
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
SPEAKER_00: John Perkins was standing on the stage and he was teaching and he gave his indictment on our culture.
SPEAKER_00: And here's what it was he says, this generation is the first to make hate an asset.
SPEAKER_00: And I want you to think about that for a moment.
SPEAKER_00: This generation, he wasn't just talking about his generation, he was saying this generation is the first to make hate an asset.
SPEAKER_00: Meaning, when we see people who disagree with us, people who are different than us, what we have a tendency to do is lean away and put up this wall, this wall of just kind of difference, this wall of sometimes all the way anger and all the way to hatred.
SPEAKER_00: Scott Saul said that John, Dr.
SPEAKER_00: John Perkins was known for this line as well.
SPEAKER_00: He says, he says, love is the final fight.
SPEAKER_00: Love is the final fight.
SPEAKER_00: And this guy, John Perkins, you know, you think about Scott Saul says he was a person, if anybody had earned the right to hate, because of all that he had gone through, it was John Perkins.
SPEAKER_00: He said, yet his life became not just his preaching, but his life became a sermon on reconciliation and forgiveness and grace.
SPEAKER_00: He based that life on what he called just following Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Following Jesus as the one, scripture describes Jesus as the one who came to tear down the dividing walls of what?
SPEAKER_00: Does anybody know?
SPEAKER_00: Of hostility.
SPEAKER_00: You just think about it, you look around the world, and there are these dividing walls of hostility all over the place.
SPEAKER_00: And John Perkins says, I'm gonna be like Jesus and I'm gonna spend my life preaching a message and living a message that tears down the dividing walls of hostility and preaches a message of reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: And that is the heart of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: That's not just the heart of Jesus, that is the heart of our second value.
SPEAKER_00: We've talked a lot this last two weeks about Jesus first, our second value is people always.
SPEAKER_00: And we would say it this way: we love beyond the walls that divide us.
SPEAKER_00: That language, love beyond, it's been a part of our culture for a long time.
SPEAKER_00: We are people always.
SPEAKER_00: We love beyond the walls that divide us, and that comes straight from Luke 9.23.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's been our verse.
SPEAKER_00: I've said it the last couple weeks.
SPEAKER_00: If you've been around Central, that's been our verse for the last four decades.
SPEAKER_00: Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves, pick up their cross, what?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, help me out.
SPEAKER_00: Pick up their cross, what?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, all of our campus, pick up our cross what?
SPEAKER_00: Daily and follow me.
SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing when it comes to loving people, when it comes to that people always value, we seem to miss, Christians in this era seem to miss the deny yourself part.
SPEAKER_00: Like we we don't want to deny ourselves anything, do we?
SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to loving people, here's the thing.
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to deny ourselves.
SPEAKER_00: What we want to do is we want to love people who love us back.
SPEAKER_00: We want to love people who are easy to love.
SPEAKER_00: We want to love people that look like us, act like us, believe like us.
SPEAKER_00: We have a hard time.
SPEAKER_00: What happens is when it comes to people who are different than us, what's your posture?
SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
SPEAKER_00: Do you lean in or do you have a tendency to put up a wall of hostility against people who believe differently than you about whatever issue that's out there?
SPEAKER_00: Do you put up a wall and just kind of lean away?
SPEAKER_00: Luke chapter 19 is not like a usual passage that is used to teach on this idea.
SPEAKER_00: You'll recognize a character.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus teaches in this passage, or Jesus just kind of experiences a crowd and a person.
SPEAKER_00: And I think this passage is one of the most beautiful passages of how Jesus leans in and tears down the walls that divide us and shows us how we actually love people.
SPEAKER_00: Luke 19, starting verse 1, says Jesus entered Jericho, he was passing through, and a man was there by the name of Zacchaeus.
SPEAKER_00: Recognize that name?
SPEAKER_00: He was a chief tax collector, which means like he was the top of the rung.
SPEAKER_00: You think pyramid scheme, he was the tax collector that was above all the tax collectors, and it goes on and says, and he was wealthy, not just a little bit wealthy, he was extremely wealthy.
SPEAKER_00: He wanted to see who Jesus was.
SPEAKER_00: So get this picture.
SPEAKER_00: Zacchaeus has not met Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: He's not met Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: He knows Jesus by name, he knows the miracles that he's done, he wants to see Jesus, but there's not been any physical interaction between he and Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: But because he was short, he could not see over the crowd.
SPEAKER_00: So just capture this picture.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus going through Jericho, and it's almost like a parade.
SPEAKER_00: You know, when a parade goes through, there's the crowd on each side.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: There's this like a crowd that's just gathered because Jesus has healed people, he's done miracles, he's taught incredible things.
SPEAKER_00: So the crowd is there, and Zacchaeus is trying to get through.
SPEAKER_00: Like he's trying to get through the crowd to be able to see.
SPEAKER_00: Nobody lets him through, so what does he do?
SPEAKER_00: So he ran ahead and he climbed up a sycamore fig tree to see him since Jesus was coming that way.
SPEAKER_00: Now, get a little bit of context.
SPEAKER_00: May have heard this before, but tax collectors were not popular people in that day.
SPEAKER_00: Like they were not popular people, they weren't just a little bit different, they were despised.
SPEAKER_00: You could say tax collectors in that day would kind of be like white-collar criminals in our day.
SPEAKER_00: Like what they were given is they had a job with the Roman government.
SPEAKER_00: The Roman government says you're going to collect taxes from your own people.
SPEAKER_00: And here's what you get to do: you have a quota.
SPEAKER_00: You have to take this quota from your people, give it to Rome.
SPEAKER_00: But then how you get paid is you are allowed, we're not putting any limits on this, you are allowed to collect as much as you can above the quota to take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_00: And so what happened is these tax collectors just extorted money out of their own people, and they live these opulent, wealthy lives on the backs of their own people.
SPEAKER_00: So they were despised.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were hated.
SPEAKER_00: Tax collector walks in right here, everybody's murmuring, everybody's talking, everybody's pointing, look at that person, and nobody's talking to them.
SPEAKER_00: Now, tax collector was a lucrative job, it was a lonely job exactly because of that.
SPEAKER_00: Also, because the only friends that tax collectors had were other tax collectors.
SPEAKER_00: And so Zacchaeus tries to get in and to see, and people are looking at him and they're loving just being able to push this dude away.
SPEAKER_00: They're loving not letting him through.
SPEAKER_00: And so he runs on down, finds a tree to get into.
SPEAKER_00: He's probably hiding in this tree also, because he probably thinks Jesus thinks the same thing about him that the crowd does, but he's curious.
SPEAKER_00: And watch how Jesus responds.
SPEAKER_00: Verse 5, it says, When Jesus reached the spot, like it's almost interesting that Luke says it that way.
SPEAKER_00: The spot, like right there where Zacchaeus was, the spot, he looked up and said to him, Zacchaeus, can you imagine being Zacchaeus?
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't even know Jesus, and Jesus calling you by name, he's calling you out, and he's probably wondering, oh man, what's coming?
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: He said, Zacchaeus, come down immediately.
SPEAKER_00: I must stay at your house today.
SPEAKER_00: So he came down at once and he welcomed him gladly.
SPEAKER_00: Like welcomed him into his home.
SPEAKER_00: All the people saw this and began to mutter, he's gone to be the guest of a sinner.
SPEAKER_00: Like you ever been in a crowd where something happens, like you're in a classroom or you know, at a gathering and somebody on the stage says something?
SPEAKER_00: You know, they said so say something that's like embarrassing or awkward or whatever, and what is people's natural reaction to do in the midst of the awkwardness?
SPEAKER_00: Like it's almost like you can't help yourself, so you just have to like start whispering.
SPEAKER_00: Did you did he say that?
SPEAKER_00: Did that just happen?
SPEAKER_00: You know, there, but these people are muttering because they despise this guy.
SPEAKER_00: He he's one of those people.
SPEAKER_00: They they looked at him and they're like, he's he's one of those people.
SPEAKER_00: It describes, they say, he's a sin, a sinner.
SPEAKER_00: You see, for for for the crowd, what they were doing is they were dividing people into us and them.
SPEAKER_00: Like there's the tax collector, there's the sinner, and they lean immediately.
SPEAKER_00: A wall goes up.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus, not so much.
SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
SPEAKER_00: It says Jesus went to the spot, Jesus was on a mission to go to that spot.
SPEAKER_00: He goes to that spot underneath that tree, and he looks up and he does not see a tax collector.
SPEAKER_00: He looks up and he does not see, you know, a filthy thief.
SPEAKER_00: What he sees is a creation of God, a creation of his own, with all the potential that God created him with.
SPEAKER_00: And he sees him and treats him as a friend.
SPEAKER_00: The crowd leans away.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus leans in and loves Zacchaeus like he's a friend, even though he's different.
SPEAKER_00: Bob Goff, a famous writer and teacher, says this.
SPEAKER_00: He says, the way we treat people we disagree with the most is a report card on what we've learned about love.
SPEAKER_00: And what grade do you get?
SPEAKER_00: Like when it comes to people who are different than you and me, believe differently, act differently, you disagree with.
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a tendency to lean in like Jesus, or do you have a tendency to put up a wall like the crowd?
SPEAKER_00: Like what grade would you give yourself on how you are loving people?
SPEAKER_00: Scott Sauls writes about this, and he says it's interesting.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus was always, if you just look at his story, he was always able to love people that were different, love people who are sinners, love people who are in the middle of their brokenness, and we could go through story after story after story, but Scott Sauls explains why.
SPEAKER_00: He says, because Jesus never looked at us and them.
SPEAKER_00: He saw all people the same.
SPEAKER_00: He even writes and he says, that the way that Jesus, just the fact that Jesus was able to love the Zacchaeuses of the world, like to love and befriend them.
SPEAKER_00: He says that sets, that is the thing that sets Christianity apart from any other religion or philosophy, because every other religion and every other philosophy divides people into good and bad, us and them.
SPEAKER_00: You notice that?
SPEAKER_00: Every other religion is about how you measure up and how good you've been and how much you obey the commands.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's bar none across the board.
SPEAKER_00: Even back then, if you look at Jesus, the religion of the day, Judaism, what did they call Jesus?
SPEAKER_00: They called him a glutton and a drunkard.
SPEAKER_00: Why?
SPEAKER_00: Because he hung out with those people.
SPEAKER_00: Hung out with those people, and they just categorized everybody into good and bad, us and them.
SPEAKER_00: Scott Swalls goes on to write, and he says, with Christianity, with Jesus, there is no good and bad, no us and them.
SPEAKER_00: All you have is us.
SPEAKER_00: What Jesus looks at with every single person, Scripture just says it.
SPEAKER_00: Paul writes in Romans 3.23, and he says, For all have what?
SPEAKER_00: Sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
SPEAKER_00: Romans 6.23 says, But the wages of sin, what we deserve for our sin, says, but the wages of sin is death.
SPEAKER_00: It's talking about spiritual separation.
SPEAKER_00: But the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God.
SPEAKER_00: Did you hear that?
SPEAKER_00: Free gift of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: The free gift of God is his grace, right?
SPEAKER_00: He says, it is God's grace that is given for all people, meaning you do not have to earn that.
SPEAKER_00: We don't have to earn that.
SPEAKER_00: You see, for Jesus, what you've got is not us and them, it's just us.
SPEAKER_00: Scott Salles goes on to write, and he talks about Zacchaeus, and he says, Zacchaeus would have never said, Man, Jesus, Jesus welcomes sinners and eats with them.
SPEAKER_00: Zacchaeus would have said with wonder and awe, he would have said, Man, did you know this?
SPEAKER_00: Jesus welcomes sinners and eats with us.
SPEAKER_00: And that's the difference.
SPEAKER_00: Like that's the difference in Christianity is that we come to this thing all being broken, all being messed up.
SPEAKER_00: There's somebody that walk in the door today, and you're just like, Man, I don't even know if I've got it.
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know if if I've messed up too much of God, but I'm doing my repentance thing, my penance thing, whatever.
SPEAKER_00: I'm just coming and hoping.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus says, No, no, no.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus comes to the spot right now and he says, Look, every single one of you are in the tree hoping for a glance, and I am just reaching out trying to say, Come home.
SPEAKER_00: Because there is no us in them.
SPEAKER_00: It's just us.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I went to the cross for you.
SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing: when you stop seeing the world as us versus them, you're able to see people for who God created them to be.
SPEAKER_00: And there comes a different response and reaction to people who are different than you.
SPEAKER_00: About 18 years ago, I became the executive pastor of a church in Northern Colorado in Longmont, Colorado.
SPEAKER_00: It was called Life Bridge Christian Church.
SPEAKER_00: Our tagline was discover grace, grow in grace, and live gracefully and super loving church.
SPEAKER_00: And I remember I came, I became the executive pastor at a really like busy time.
SPEAKER_00: So it was Christmas.
SPEAKER_00: And at that church, at that time, we did 13 straight nights.
SPEAKER_00: So started in early December.
SPEAKER_00: We did 13 straight nights of concerts and comedy stuff and kids' events.
SPEAKER_00: And and we had set up our fellowship hall like this massive food court.
SPEAKER_00: And it was awesome.
SPEAKER_00: People would come after work, they'd get done, they come have dinner at five, hang out with people in the food court area, and then they'd go in, and sometimes it'd be hundreds of people, depending on the entertainment.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it was like thousands of people that would show up that night and go in.
SPEAKER_00: And we had tons of volunteers.
SPEAKER_00: We're working this thing.
SPEAKER_00: And one night I'm sitting there in the food court.
SPEAKER_00: I'm hanging out with some, you know, volunteers and I'm doing my rounds, talking to people.
SPEAKER_00: I've got done eating, and somebody comes up behind me, and tons of volunteers busting tables, comes up behind me, puts her hand on my shoulder and says, Can I take your plate?
SPEAKER_00: And to which I said, Yeah, thanks.
SPEAKER_00: And I turned and I looked, and there's this hand on my shoulder, and it is a big hand.
SPEAKER_00: It is a big hand with like long fingernails, and they are like bright red fingernails.
SPEAKER_00: And so I just kind of turn and I'll tell you what I saw.
SPEAKER_00: I turn and I see a 55-year-old man who's built like a linebacker, who's got long hair, a wig on, who's got bright red lipstick to match, a bright red dress, and bright red, super high heels.
SPEAKER_00: And so I turn and I say, Hey, thank you.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for taking my plate.
SPEAKER_00: And the person's super kind, super polite, takes my plate and is off and is, you know, serving the rest of the time and heading through and doing doing their thing.
SPEAKER_00: And as soon as they leave, a volunteer who's over all the volunteers that night just comes beeline running up to me and says, Hey, uh, that's Jesse.
SPEAKER_00: And everybody signed up to volunteer, but Jesse did not sign up.
SPEAKER_00: So I don't have any information on Jesse.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse just kind of came through the door today and just walked right up and was like, hey, I want to serve.
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00: So I just said, I just put Jesse to work.
SPEAKER_00: And I said, hey, thanks, man.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being kind and doing that.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and and I'll I'll talk to Jesse.
SPEAKER_00: We'll figure that out I had no information on Jesse, didn't see him the rest of the night, and then heard that Jesse came to our Christmas services and then had heard and not seen Jesse, but in in January, I had no information, but Jesse started coming every week.
SPEAKER_00: And a little bit of rumbling started to kind of happen because Jesse was using the women's bathroom.
SPEAKER_00: And so people were coming to me and they were like, Hey, what are you gonna do about it?
SPEAKER_00: And so I got Jesse's number and I called my lead pastor.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm I'm at that time, I'm like six weeks on the job.
SPEAKER_00: He's over in Europe and this mission trip thing that's gone for like three weeks.
SPEAKER_00: And I call him, I'm like, hey, Rick, I got a situation.
SPEAKER_00: So I explained to him, he's like, Yeah, that's a situation.
SPEAKER_00: And uh and I was like, hey, what do I do?
SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Well, what do you think you should do?
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's why I called you.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, hey, what do we do?
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, have you called Jesse yet?
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no.
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Man, just call Jesse and see if you can sit down with Jesse and you guys just have a conversation.
SPEAKER_00: And here's what I encourage you to do is just sit down and get to know Jesse's story.
SPEAKER_00: Just ask him, like, hey, Jesse, tell me your story.
SPEAKER_00: Because you probably learned a lot about Jesse and a lot about background and all of that if you learn his story.
SPEAKER_00: And so I did.
SPEAKER_00: And what was interesting about this whole situation that I've got this assignment is, guys, I did not grow up leaning into these kind of situations.
SPEAKER_00: Like Jesse and the in that just whatever reason, me growing up, I did not lean in.
SPEAKER_00: I put up a wall and leaned away.
SPEAKER_00: But I was executive pastor, and people were saying, What are we gonna do with this?
SPEAKER_00: And Rick said, Hey, give him a so I called Jesse, and Jesse was so polite, so kind.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse was like, I would, Sean, I would love to sit down with you.
SPEAKER_00: That'd be great to sit down and and share my story.
SPEAKER_00: And so Jesse came to the lobby.
SPEAKER_00: I remember us meeting, and he walks in and sits down, and we just start.
SPEAKER_00: I said, Jesse, hey, I'd just love to hear your story.
SPEAKER_00: And so Jesse just opens up and is super vulnerable.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse said, Hey, you know, my my name's actually Jim.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I here's my background.
SPEAKER_00: I grew up in a Baptist church, and man, I faith is a really important part of my life, but it's been difficult, and and I've been struggling with, you know, my identity.
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I've been struggling with my identity, and and two years ago, I decided to change my name from Jim to Jesse, and to change my attire and change my lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse went on to go along and just share about, you know, a tiny bit about family, but really did not give me much on the story with family, but gave me a lot on faith.
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Jesse, help help me understand on the face side, faith side.
SPEAKER_00: And and Jesse said, I she said, you know, Sean, it's been really hard.
SPEAKER_00: She's like the faith thing has been really hard for me because here's what's happened.
SPEAKER_00: I've gone to a bunch of churches, and I really want to grow in my faith.
SPEAKER_00: But here's the problem.
SPEAKER_00: Every time I go to a church that teaches the Bible, they won't welcome me.
SPEAKER_00: Every time I go to a church that's really welcome to me, welcoming to me, I find out over time I don't think they're really teaching the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: She said, Sean, I've been kicked out of eight churches in the last two years in Boulder County, law.
SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Here's what I want to know.
SPEAKER_00: And I knew what question was coming.
SPEAKER_00: She's like, here's what I want to know.
SPEAKER_00: Is that what this meeting is?
SPEAKER_00: Are you sitting here with me right now because you're gonna tell me that I can't come to church anymore?
SPEAKER_00: I said, Jesse, no.
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: Man, everybody's welcome at this church.
SPEAKER_00: We want you to come to this church, we want you to get to know Jesus, we want you to grow in your faith.
SPEAKER_00: We we want you to meet friends, we we want you to do that just like anybody else is gonna do that at this church.
SPEAKER_00: And and then Jesse said, Well, okay, because I was wondering, and I said, Is there some tension?
SPEAKER_00: She said, Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: She's like, Yeah, I was handed a note and handed a note by somebody, and the note was about my choice of bathrooms and my choice of attire.
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, I'm I'm sure you have.
SPEAKER_00: And so, how about we do this?
SPEAKER_00: Follow me.
SPEAKER_00: Took her in to a hallway, showed her where the staff bathrooms were, and we agreed.
SPEAKER_00: That's where she was going to use the bathroom.
SPEAKER_00: I said, Hey, that'll take care of that tension.
SPEAKER_00: And how about you just do this?
SPEAKER_00: How about you show up on Sunday and you just come find me?
SPEAKER_00: Just come find me in the lobby.
SPEAKER_00: I'll be right there.
SPEAKER_00: We can keep meeting, getting to know each other, but I'll be there on Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse did.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse did.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse's a big personality.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm standing there in the lobby and it was about 30 yards from the door, and I'm talking to some people, and I look over and I see Jesse getting ready to come through the door.
SPEAKER_00: Different color of dress, but the whole same attire, everything, high heels, the whole nine yards.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse comes through the door and Jesse sees me, and I am not joking.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse just goes, Sean! And everybody goes, Look at this.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse just as fast as she can across the lobby, and she comes and gives me this huge hug.
SPEAKER_00: Now, you know how there's like different kinds of hugs?
SPEAKER_00: Like if you if you see me at one of our campuses or see me in the lobby, like I'm I'm a fist bumper side hugger.
SPEAKER_00: That's me.
SPEAKER_00: Not Jesse at all.
SPEAKER_00: Like Jesse's like full on hug.
SPEAKER_00: And when I say full on hug, grab me, wrapped me up in a hug, and didn't let go.
SPEAKER_00: Like I am not exaggerating.
SPEAKER_00: This is not preacher exaggeration.
SPEAKER_00: This is like legit.
SPEAKER_00: It was like 30 or 40 seconds.
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about you, but like what do you do after three, four seconds?
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like what are you doing here?
SPEAKER_00: So I just okay.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse told me about like how thankful she was for the meeting, how like what her week was like, and and the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00: And so that happened.
SPEAKER_00: We had a conversation after the hug and and went on in, she went on into worship, and that happened literally for like two months straight.
SPEAKER_00: We get to after Easter, and after Easter, um, Jesse comes up to me and says, Hey, I'm loving this church, man.
SPEAKER_00: It's great, but I need some friends, I need some people to study the Bible with.
SPEAKER_00: And you've been talking about small groups.
SPEAKER_00: I need to get in a group.
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and I knew this was coming.
SPEAKER_00: I knew it would come, and we've been having conversations, and so I had some groups in my mind that I knew would just be great groups to help handle the situation and love Jesse well, but she didn't want any of them.
SPEAKER_00: I I would mention a group, she's like, nope, no, I can only do eight o'clock on Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going, eight o'clock, that's not groups, that's our Sunday school classes.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and our Sunday school classes were kind of usually named after kind of the personality of the group.
SPEAKER_00: And so she'd already picked one.
SPEAKER_00: She's like, okay, okay, I no, I got I got mine picked.
SPEAKER_00: It's the truth tellers.
SPEAKER_00: I'm going, okay, truth tellers, all right, all right.
SPEAKER_00: I know the truth tellers, their average age is about 75 years old, super conservative group.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is the group I've chosen, but if that's the only one you can go to, I know Tony.
SPEAKER_00: Tony's a great guy.
SPEAKER_00: So I called Tony up.
SPEAKER_00: I said, hey, I got a person who's gonna come to your group and come to your class, and and he's like, Oh, I've Jesse, yeah, I've heard about Jesse.
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Hey, just you guys love her.
SPEAKER_00: He said, Hey, we love to.
SPEAKER_00: We love her well.
SPEAKER_00: And then I said, Hey, and just so you know, Tony, she's a big hugger, so just know.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and Jesse went.
SPEAKER_00: And this group just brought Jesse in and they inviting her to all their potlucks, they're praying for it every week, they're studying the Bible together, having conversation.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're studying like Revelation and then Rome.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're just all this stuff and just deep into it.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse just goes, and this happens for months.
SPEAKER_00: I'm still meeting with them.
SPEAKER_00: She's meeting with the, you know, the truth tellers group, and she's going to worship, and just all of this, there's still some tension that you can feel a little bit around this.
SPEAKER_00: And but she's finding friends, she's worshiping God, and she's connecting with people, being challenged in faith, and then all of a sudden she's gone.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what happened?
SPEAKER_00: And I'm calling Jesse and I can't get a hold of Jesse.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse won't even return a voicemail, anything.
SPEAKER_00: Then the truth tellers are coming to me saying, Hey, I haven't seen, we haven't seen Jesse, will not return our phone calls.
SPEAKER_00: It goes on for a couple months, and I figure Jesse is gone.
SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, one day I'm sitting in my office and Jesse comes through, and that big old personality just comes right through my office door and just sits down in in a chair, and I can tell angry or something.
SPEAKER_00: And she just looks at me and she says, What is wrong with your church?
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just going, like who said what?
SPEAKER_00: Who passed a note?
SPEAKER_00: Who did what?
SPEAKER_00: Who who did this and that?
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Jesse, well, what happened?
SPEAKER_00: Like, just tell me what happened.
SPEAKER_00: First of all, where you been, but what happened?
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse looks at me and she goes, Is that truth tellers group?
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh man.
SPEAKER_00: She said, They're the nicest people in the world.
SPEAKER_00: She's like, they won't stop calling me.
SPEAKER_00: They keep inviting me all their potlucks, they're sending me notes all the time.
SPEAKER_00: They keep asking how they're gonna pray for me.
SPEAKER_00: They will not leave me alone.
SPEAKER_00: What is wrong with your church?
SPEAKER_00: To which I kind of laughed.
SPEAKER_00: And I just sat back and I said, Jesse, there is nothing wrong with this church.
SPEAKER_00: You see, what you just ran into is you ran into a whole bunch of people who know how to love like Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: When you think about people always and our value, when you think about how Jesus calls disciples to follow him and have the dust of the rabbi all over them, there's three things that those people have in common.
SPEAKER_00: The first thing is this the disciples of Jesus give people, they give everyone, they treat them with the dignity that God created them with.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about this for a moment.
SPEAKER_00: Like God created every single person with value, not because of what they do, but because it's simply who they are.
SPEAKER_00: God stamped his image upon every single person.
SPEAKER_00: And what we cannot do as followers of Jesus, as disciples who have the dust of our rabbi, who are supposed to be like our Savior, what we cannot do is we can never justify devaluing a person because we disagree with them.
SPEAKER_00: That does not mean that we have to agree with them.
SPEAKER_00: That does not mean that we have to approve, but we can never devalue.
SPEAKER_00: We must love, because when we devalue people, we begin to dehumanize them.
SPEAKER_00: Brene Brown, famous author and writer, she says this.
SPEAKER_00: She says, dehumanizing often starts with creating an enemy image.
SPEAKER_00: And we should stop right there because how can you create an enemy image of someone who's created in the image of God?
SPEAKER_00: Goes on, she says, as we take sides, we lose trust, we and get angrier and angrier, we not only solidify the idea of our enemy, but we also start to lose our ability to listen, communicate, and practice even a modicum of empathy.
SPEAKER_00: See, Jesus gave us a better way.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus says, love one another as what?
SPEAKER_00: As you love yourself?
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: He says, love one another as I have loved you.
SPEAKER_00: And I had to ask myself in this situation, how would Jesus, not how would I, not how have I in the past, but how would Jesus love Jesse in this situation?
SPEAKER_00: The second thing, disciples of Jesus build bridges, not walls.
SPEAKER_00: One of the greatest lines of advice I've ever heard, it was in a marriage counseling appointment with my wife.
SPEAKER_00: Our counselor looked at us and said, Sean, you gotta stop fighting for agreement and start fighting for understanding.
SPEAKER_00: Man, that is that works everywhere in life.
SPEAKER_00: Like we got to stop fighting for agreement.
SPEAKER_00: Not everybody's gonna agree with us, or are we gonna agree with everyone else?
SPEAKER_00: Or should we?
SPEAKER_00: Fight for understanding.
SPEAKER_00: You see, agreement's about being right.
SPEAKER_00: Understanding is about being kind and curious.
SPEAKER_00: Let's be honest.
SPEAKER_00: Which works better?
SPEAKER_00: Arguments or understanding?
SPEAKER_00: What do people respond to more?
SPEAKER_00: What creates more influence and more impact and more relationship and more friendship?
SPEAKER_00: It is always understanding.
SPEAKER_00: You see, disciples of Jesus build bridges by fighting for understanding.
SPEAKER_00: John Perkins puts it this way: I love this quote.
SPEAKER_00: He says, There is no reconciliation until you recognize the dignity of the other, until you see their view.
SPEAKER_00: You put yourself in their shoes.
SPEAKER_00: You have to enter the pain of people.
SPEAKER_00: Man, Jesse had pain.
SPEAKER_00: You've got to feel their need.
SPEAKER_00: I grew up fighting to be right.
SPEAKER_00: I call my senior pastor Rick and I'm like, hey, what do I do here?
SPEAKER_00: And he gives a different way.
SPEAKER_00: He says, How about you try Jesus' way?
SPEAKER_00: How about you just sit down and listen to somebody's story and see what they say?
SPEAKER_00: The third thing is this disciples of Jesus balance grace and truth.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus balanced grace and truth.
SPEAKER_00: John 1 verse 14 says that Jesus came full of grace.
SPEAKER_00: We love that one.
SPEAKER_00: But he also came full of truth.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why he did not just invite Zacchaeus to dinner.
SPEAKER_00: That's why he didn't just go out to in and out and hang out and grab a burger and talk over a little, you know, burger and hang out.
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: He sat down with him over dinner.
SPEAKER_00: And if you see the rest of the story, somewhere in that conversation, Jesus brings a little truth into the conversation.
SPEAKER_00: What's really interesting about it is it says that Jesus is full of grace and truth.
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's an order to that.
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a specific order.
SPEAKER_00: Because what Jesus did is he walked in and recognized Zacchaeus, called him by name, had grace with him, invites him to dinner.
SPEAKER_00: He goes to dinner, he builds friendship, and in the context of relationships, somewhere in there, he addresses Zacchaeus's need, his lack of generosity, his greediness, the extortion of the people.
SPEAKER_00: And look what happens in the rest of the story.
SPEAKER_00: Verse 8 through 10.
SPEAKER_00: It says, But Zacchaeus stood up.
SPEAKER_00: This is after dinner, and he said to the Lord, Lord, look, he said, Here and now I give half my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus said to him, Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham, for the son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost.
SPEAKER_00: Randy Alcorn, famous writer, author, says this Jesus was 100% grace, and he was a hundred percent truth.
SPEAKER_00: Man, math-wise that didn't even work out.
SPEAKER_00: But his point was, is Jesus wasn't just, hey, all grace.
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're all grace, you're anything goes.
SPEAKER_00: And we are never called in scripture to be anything goes people.
SPEAKER_00: We are always called to always be going to people with both grace, 100% grace, relationship, connection, but also 100% truth.
SPEAKER_00: If you never sit down and through the context of relationship, share the truth of the gospel with people, the truth about who he says they are and their identity in Christ, then what we do is we miss it.
SPEAKER_00: We miss it and we miss the opportunity for them to be able to run into Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: And man, whatever the result was is, man, that's up to the Holy Spirit, is it not?
SPEAKER_00: That was not the end of Zacchaeus' story, it was also not the end of Jesse's story.
SPEAKER_00: You know, Jesse and I we kept meeting, and Jesse kept coming to church.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse started going to the truthellers again and just came back.
SPEAKER_00: And we love Jesse as a church, not toward an outcome, just tried to love him like Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: We loved Jesse not knowing how it was gonna turn out.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse just kept coming.
SPEAKER_00: She just kept kept coming and making that her place.
SPEAKER_00: And as I got to know Jesse, she shared there was a little more to the story and the family piece that I had talked about that she didn't share, she shared.
SPEAKER_00: And what I found out was that Jesse, and this was months and months after we had gotten to know each other, close friends, Jesse shared that she was married.
SPEAKER_00: That Jesse had been married to Cindy for 20 years.
SPEAKER_00: 20 years.
SPEAKER_00: And remember, I said that you know, work was going well, but faith was struggling.
SPEAKER_00: Now faith was going better, great, and connecting and all that, but family was really struggling.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse just she got really open.
SPEAKER_00: She's like, look, man, we're really, I love Cindy with all of my heart.
SPEAKER_00: But in these last two years, we've really, really struggled.
SPEAKER_00: And Cindy's been really open with me.
SPEAKER_00: What she said is just she said, man, I I didn't sign up for this.
SPEAKER_00: This is this is not what I signed up for.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse's like, man, I I love my wife and I gotta figure this out.
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Jesse, these are these are big issues, man.
SPEAKER_00: Like we can sit here and we talk about scripture and we can do this.
SPEAKER_00: This is great, but I think you need to get with a counselor, and we've got a counselor named Bill on staff that I think would be great.
SPEAKER_00: And I would just encourage you, would you be willing for me to connect you and Cindy to Bill?
SPEAKER_00: And I'd not met Cindy by this time.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesse was like, I'll talk to Cindy.
SPEAKER_00: And they called and they said, Yes.
SPEAKER_00: And so I got them connected and they started meeting with Bill.
SPEAKER_00: And over a period of months, they just had conversations, had conversations about life and just regular marriage counseling type stuff, but they also dove into scripture, started looking about what God said about marriage, and and they started even looking at just you know their vows and different things, and they're having all these conversations, and it was really hard.
SPEAKER_00: It was really messy.
SPEAKER_00: Jesse would, when I meet with Jesse, she'd tell me about it, and like, man, we're working through.
SPEAKER_00: It's one day I'm standing in the lobby and I'm waiting for my hug, right?
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm at the front doors, I'm waiting that Jesse's gonna come in, and I'm seeing other people, and all of a sudden I welcome somebody in this way, and I turn around, and they're standing in front of me as a 55-year-old man with regular haircut, with a button-down shirt, with dockers on, and with boots, no hug.
SPEAKER_00: Just reaches out his hand, looks at me in the eye, and says, Hi, my name's Jim.
SPEAKER_00: And I was getting up on the stage.
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have time, and so I looked at Jim and I said, Jim, great to see you.
SPEAKER_00: Gave Jim a hug, and then I headed up on stage, and before I headed up, I said, Jim, I want to know more.
SPEAKER_00: We met later that week and we sat down at a table, same kind of table in the lobby, and I said, Jim, just tell me more.
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Hey, Sean, here's the thing.
SPEAKER_00: We went through marriage counseling, and Bill started taking us through scripture, and then he had one day where he had me us bring our vows and talk about our vows and like what vows did we make to each other?
SPEAKER_00: And he said, I realized that before God and before all of those witnesses, I made a vow to be Cindy's husband.
SPEAKER_00: And I made a vow to be the leader of our family, and and our two boys.
SPEAKER_00: I've never seen those boys either.
SPEAKER_00: And he said, You know what, Sean?
SPEAKER_00: I just realized in that moment that that's what I'm called to be.
SPEAKER_00: I'm still struggling with my identity, but I'm gonna work, I'm gonna keep working through that, and that's who God's called me to be.
SPEAKER_00: And then what I watched over a series of months is Cindy start coming to church with Jim, them start going to the same truth tellers class.
SPEAKER_00: I started watching those two boys, not come all the time, but come sometimes.
SPEAKER_00: All because there was a group of people that were willing to look at everyone and say, we want to give them the dignity, we want to give Jesse the dignity that that person deserves.
SPEAKER_00: We we want to we wanna step in and we wanna build bridges.
SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna have that person walk into church and we're gonna put up immediate wall.
SPEAKER_00: No, we're gonna build bridges and love people.
SPEAKER_00: And they are a group of people that also realize that man, you can't just share grace, you also have to share truth, but you gotta balance both.
SPEAKER_00: Man, I tell you this, I don't know who learned more.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know who learned more.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if Jesse learned more or me.
SPEAKER_00: I would I would probably actually say me.
SPEAKER_00: Because in that situation, I saw a picture.
SPEAKER_00: I saw a picture of the love of Jesus and the transforming work that the Holy Spirit can do when you just love like that.
SPEAKER_00: I tell you, up to that point, I don't think I was getting a very good grade.
SPEAKER_00: But from that point forward, I looked at my life and my leadership as a pastor and said, you know what?
SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of church I want to lead.
SPEAKER_00: That has a value of people always.
SPEAKER_00: That we're gonna love beyond the walls that divide us, and we're gonna allow the Holy Spirit to do what he does.
SPEAKER_00: And I want to encourage you this week, church.
SPEAKER_00: I want to encourage you that that's what we're about.
SPEAKER_00: I want to encourage you that that's what you should be about.
SPEAKER_00: As we walk out of this place, grade yourself.
SPEAKER_00: Like, how am I doing on that?
SPEAKER_00: How am I doing on loving people, not as you would want them to love, but how Jesus actually loved people.
SPEAKER_00: And I would even encourage you, maybe in a situation where God pulls on your heart, to sit down with somebody and ask them their story.
SPEAKER_00: Challenge your students and your kids to actually sit down with somebody who's different than them and ask them their story and then process it and process what that means with grace and what that means with truth and work through those things and see what God might do through that.
SPEAKER_00: Because here's the thing: if we live in a culture that is made is the first generation that has made hate an asset, the only answer is to turn around and be people who follow Jesus, have the dust of the rabbi on us, and make his grace and his truth and his love the greatest asset we have.
SPEAKER_00: See what it does to change people.
SPEAKER_00: Let's pray.
SPEAKER_00: Father God, as we sit here today and all of our campuses, Father, I pray that you just help us as we just take a moment.
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna take a moment and sing.
SPEAKER_00: We think about this song, the words of this song, oh, praise the name.
SPEAKER_00: Father, can we just take a moment and praise your name for being the one that does not look at us and them, but just sees us.
SPEAKER_00: Who's willing to come for us and to die for us?
SPEAKER_00: And Father, I pray we will praise your name and then we will walk out of this place and go live in your name for the sake of other people.
SPEAKER_00: And God, I pray that you would start a revival in this valley and through this church as we go love people.
SPEAKER_00: God, we love you.
SPEAKER_00: It's in Jesus' name we pray.