Hidden Gems Around the World With Time Magazine's Best Blogger Gary Arndt | TNE044

On todays episode, we have Gary Arndt, a traveling extraordinaire. Gary has worked with brands such as the Atlantic, the Huffington post, and the 4 hour workweek. After having successfully exited from a few businesses, Gary started his travel and photography based blog which eventually became one of Time Magazine’s top 25 blogs in the world back in 2010. Today, Gary hosts his own historical story telling based podcast called everything everywhere. You can find links to his podcast and renown Facebook group in the show notes.

Gary's Links:
Everything Everywhere Daily History Podcast
Gary Arndt's Travel Blog
The League of Extraordinary Travelers - Facebook Group

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Facebook Group - Nomadables - Perfect to meet fellow online entrepreneurs, remote workers, and digital nomads.
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Transcript

Episode 44- Hidden Gems Around the World With Time Magazine’s Best Blogger Gary Arndt

Intro-

Imagine traveling to 140 countries on seven different continents from hot air ballooning in South America to exploring untouched national parks in Canada, our guest has done it all on today's episode. We have Gary Arndt, uh, traveling extraordinary. Gary has worked with brands, such as the Atlantic, the Huffington post, and the four hour workweek after having successfully exited from a few businesses.

Gary started his travel and photography based blog, which eventually became one of time. Magazine's top twenty-five blogs in the world back in 2010. Today, Gary hosts his own historical storytelling based podcast called everything everywhere. You can find links to his podcast and renowned Facebook group in the show notes.

Now, before we get started, I'd like to give a special shout out to review. We got recently Eskimo, Joe says I really enjoyed the variety of guests and the subject matter with a potential change of career on the horizon. This podcast has been very useful for seeing what options are available to me.

Beyond the standard nine to five. Thank you, Eskimo Joe, for the kind words and to you, my nomad family, I'd like to remind you to please leave a rating or a review. Every review helps this podcast become more visible to people who just may need that spark of inspiration to take the first leap. And of course, I'll be sure to give you a shout out on a future episode.

So without further ado, here we go.

You're listening to The Nomadic Executive hosted by Omar from nomadables.com join Omar as he sits down and speaks with leading online entrepreneurs, remote workers and digital nomads about everything from business strategy to travel and lifestyle design. Together, we're here to help you achieve a life of happiness, health and freedom. And now here's your host, Omar Mo.

Omar:

Introducing Gary over here. Gary, you are a very well-known man in the travel community. You have your own Wikipedia article. Which I find quite doing my own research the other day, which I think is spectacular. I've never interviewed somebody with their own Wikipedia article.

Gary:

Yeah, that’s been up for years. Um, uh, like 10 years ago I know, I don't know when it first came up, but I had friends of mine that would always edit it. And they'd always put something fake in, uh, that one time I had lost my pinky finger playing football, but I played through the game, anyhow. Uh, just dumb stuff like that. Nothing that's like really crazy, but just, you know, dumb enough that I would notice.

Omar:

It's funny. I didn't know it was that easily editable, but I guess it is.

Gary:

Oh yeah, anybody can do it.

Omar:

Hmm. Interesting. Well, how'd you get started, Gary, how'd you, before we even get into the myth of getting into a Wikipedia article, like where was (inaudible) in all this, I've done a little bit of my own research.

I've seen, you've been on all seven continents, that you work with really big names in the past, that you've ran your own brand for a very long time. Um, you've been to many places, have many, many stories to tell, how'd you get your start?

Gary:

Uh, I never really traveled much growing up. Um, we weren't really a family that traveled. Famously, I never saw a saltwater till I was 21 years old. In fact, I remember the first time I saw it, we were in Seattle. I was there for the national debate tournament in college, and we were driving past this part of Puget Sound. We were in a van. I was like, stop the van, stop the van. And everyone didn't know what was going on. Like it was an emergency, and they stopped the van. I ran out and I tasted the water cause I needed, I really want it to verify that is was salty. Cause I'd never experienced salt water before.

I started, uh, an internet company really early on when internet stuff was happening in the early nineties, we basically, we created websites that were data-driven, which at the time, you know, people were paying $20,000 for six pages of HTML. No database, no nothing. Right?

This is really really simple stuff. It was crazy. And hooking up a database to a website was really hard and confusing. When it first started, there was no PHP. There was no Linux. There was no, uh, my SQL, there was none of this stuff. You had to get a sun workstation with a copy of Oracle. And this was even before windows NT came out. So you didn't even have a, an affordable alternative. So my friend from college began working on a product called cold fusion which made it really easy to hook up a database to a website and products like PHP now are basically derivatives of that.

Omar:

So he was like the grandfather of the backend.

Gary:

Yeah, kind of. And so, but he didn't want to actually build websites. He just wanted to work on the product. And he had some companies that came to him and said, well, we'd like to have our company's product and we could have our catalog and other stuff on it. You don't want to do it too. I said, you want to do it?

So I was like, sure. So I did that. And you know, one thing led to another and I hired one of my friends and he had a friend and four years later, you know, I'm 28 years old and I had a business, you know, with 50 employees and I sold that and I sold it to a big multinational company and I conned them into sending me around the world to talk about the internet.

Omar:

I love how you use the word conned.

Gary:

Oh yeah. Completely. Because I had nothing to do after I sold the company. Literally nothing. I would show up to work. Because they took me away from heading up the stuff that I was doing. And so I had nothing to do and I was on the payroll. So I would show up to this office at like 10:00 AM late, say hi to everyone so everyone saw me, surf the web for like two hours, go to lunch, and then not come back. And I got paid to do this for a full year and…

Omar:

Wow.

Gary:

Well, that was, that was part of the contract when I sold it. And I was like, all right. But I, but they sent me on this trip and it was a three-week trip. And I went to, and this is some of the actual work I did.

I went to Tokyo, Taipei, Singapore, Frankfurt, Brussels, Paris, and London, on a three-week trip. Went to all the offices and talk to people about this. And that was the first time I'd ever really been anywhere. So I went all the way around the world in three weeks and I really liked it. And I started, I had some other companies that started, it was a really horrible time because by then the .com bubble had burst.

It was very hard to raise money. So I went back to school. I was a one of the top academic debaters in the United States when I was in college. I always say, and I did, I did well, but I didn't do, you know, I didn't win a national championship or anything. And always said, well, if I could go back, I would either blow off all my classes and get D’s in everything, and just focus on debate, try to win a national title, like a football player would, or I wouldn't debate at all. And I would've gotten a degree in physics and one of my degrees is in math and I said, why you could still do the physics thing.

So in my thirties, I went back to school and just started, I spent two and a half years studying geology and geophysics cause I found that really interesting, realized it was kind of late to get a PhD.

And then I just had this idea of selling my house and traveling around the world for a year.

Omar:

Did you end up finishing college?

Gary:

Oh, I had graduated back in 1991. This was like going back again.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah. The second time.

Gary:

I'm like three credits shy of getting another degree in geology and geophysics. I just never bothered. It's not going to do anything for me.

Omar:

That's what I figured. I mean, you went to school, but I mean, you already had a successful exit from a company and I mean, why not? I think you just kinda want to…

Gary:

Oh I was there to learn. I don’t care about the degree. So I came up with this idea of, was selling my house, traveling around the world, and it took me about 18 months to tie everything up.

I had to sell the house. The housing market was soft. It was just before the 2008 recession. Sold it in 2007. And that's when I left, I kind of started just by heading West. That was my really only plan. So, I went from Minneapolis to Dallas by car, met a friend of mine from Dallas to LA by train, just horrible.

I then flew to Hawaii where I took the opportunity to learn to scuba dive, which I had never done before. Uh, and then I spent the next half of the year, basically just going across the Pacific Ocean. I was in, you know, Tahiti, Easter Island, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, New Zealand, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, Oahu.

Omar:

Island fever.

Gary:

Yeah. I've always been fascinated by the little places. So I figured I’d go there first because it's one of the hardest parts of the world to travel in just logistically. And also one of the more expensive ones. So do that first. Um, and I was about nine months into my trip, I was in Hong Kong. This was right around Christmas, 2007. And I realized that I could tell you the names of almost everyone that was visiting my website and there's not a lot of people. And I kind of either had to take this seriously and see what I could do with it. And I don't know what was, because nobody was making a living doing it, or I should just give it up and just enjoy traveling.

Omar:

Right.

Gary:

So I kind of put an emphasis back on the website and I started posting pictures every day. This is before Instagram or anything to improve my photography and started building a following. And 13 years later, I'm talking to you.

Omar:

So it's been successful and needless to say. You know, I find it so ironic that you never even tasted the salt in salt water until you're 21.

And then after that, you ended up traveling Island after Island, after Island and emphasized on travel really hard. And now here you are.

Gary:

Well, that was probably why I went to the, in the Pacific first is cause it was such a different thing from what I was used to. But yeah, I grew up in Wisconsin. I mean, we're really far away from an ocean and I remember telling people this and they were, you know, in some of these places I went to and they were just astonished and you know, their experiences, you know, I'm used to winters.

And I remember telling this one man I met in the Solomon Islands about how we went ice fishing, and the Lake would freeze over and you'd walk out and you'd drill a hole. And you know, you put a line down, catch a fish. And he just looked amazed that like, you know, cause he, this is something he had never seen, never thought of.

And, but yeah, it was just normal to me. And everyone kind of has that, you know, wherever you live, wherever you grow up, that's the norm. And it's just what you're used to. You know, when I was in college, there was a girl from Hawaii who had never seen snow before, ever. And the first time it snowed, most of us were like meh.

That's night and she went nuts. She went outside and was running around and catching snowflakes on her tongue because this was a completely new experience for her. And I think that's a lot of the reason why we travel so we can see these things that otherwise we would never experience just if we stayed at home.

Omar:

Absolutely, that sense of wonder that we're constantly looking for.

So. You did this for 15 years. Did you just start with photography and started with like a simple blog and you'd post your photographs and you'd ride around that? Is that, is that the way that you kind of, um, I guess got some momentum going in the beginning?

Gary:

Um, I think I got attention initially because I was going to weird places.

Um, when people usually go on an around the world trip, it's kind of a list of standard places like Bangkok, Sydney, LA, London, Paris, Rome, stuff like that. Right? Major cities around the world, you get a plane ticket, you go visit them. And I was going to these remote islands to start. And since then, I've always kind of gone to weird places, even if I'm in a country that's not, that gets a lot of tourism. I tend to be going to places that are not normal. Or at least that a lot of people don't visit.

And I think that's always kind of been one of the things that has given me a lot of attention, you know, there's a lot of people that travel and then you talk to them and you realize, well, okay, you never got within 10 miles of the airport.

There are certain places that are really popular, right? Like 85% I think of the tourists that visit the United Kingdom go to London and nowhere else

Omar:

So often (inaudible)

Gary:

Right. Or, you know, people in Europe will go to Prague for a weekend. And if you look at where people visit, it's always very close or the same place as an international airport or a cruise terminal.

Omar:

That's very true.

Gary:

So they're visiting places that are easy to visit. Not a place that you got to get in a car and then fly to Berlin and then get in a car and drive for three hours to go to this really cool place. You know, it's just, they're going to places that are kind of easy.

Omar:

That makes sense.

Okay. I get it. And that's what kind of sets you apart from the rest of the crowd that was also doing this?

Gary:

I think, I mean, there are certainly other people that like me that do that, you know, I know some people that have been to every country in the world. And their trip to say Saudi Arabia consisted of, they never really leave the airport, you know?

And so, yeah, I guess you were technically there, but did you guys, did you really see anything?

Omar:

Did you experience it?

Gary:

I had a chance to go to Saudi Arabia a couple of years ago, and I actually got to go up to, I flew in to Riyadh. And then I flew up to Elula, which is in the Northern part of Saudi Arabia. And it's, I don't know if you've ever been to Jordan, but in Southern Jordan, like Wadi Rum, have you seen the trailer for the new dune movie?

Omar:

I can't say I have.

Gary:

Okay. That’s your assignment or to watch Lawrence of Arabia, but we shot in Wadi, Rum, Jordan. That's a popular filming location for desert movies. And this extends into Northern Saudi Arabia as well. It's just this fantastic place with not only sand dunes, but these, uh, rock formations that are great.

And I was up in Elula. There was, there was nobody there, nothing. There’s no tourism industry built there. Cause you know, for the longest time it was very difficult to even get into Saudi Arabia.

Omar:

Right, right.

Gary:

Uh, but there's lots of places like that, you know? When I meet people who, you know, I say I'm from the United States and “Oh yeah I've been in the United States”, and I pretty much know where they've been. They've been to New York, Orlando, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and maybe, you know, Boston, Washington, San Francisco, but you know, that's kind of it. And occasionally I'll meet someone it's like, Oh yeah, I was in Des Moines. Has this, like, why were you in Des Moines and why would you come there? But, uh, yeah, most people, they don't, you know, they go to one of the two coasts and they don't visit anything in the middle of the country. Yes, it's central and mountain time zones are completely off limits to most international travelers visiting the US.

Omar:

Yeah. Why do you think that is?

Just because they're not really aware of that. All these other beautiful places further away from the airports really have all these treasures and wonders that not many people know about.

Gary:

Oh, it's awareness. Uh, there's a limited amount of space in the popular culture for people to know about stuff.

You know, if you asked an average American name, another city in France that is outside of Paris, I bet most people could not couldn't name one. Right?

Omar:

True.

Gary:

Okay, but this is a rather large country filled with history, right? So there's tons of stuff there, tons and tons of stuff. Uh, but most people couldn't do that.

So, and so why do they know of Paris, because it's been in movies and in TV shows and they know the Eiffel tower and the Louvre and the arc de Triomphe. And, you know, that's more than most cities have, right. You know, most cities may have just one thing. Um, Paris has several things, at least, you know that.

And so they want to see those things and that's what they know. So if they wanted to go to Europe, okay, you got Paris, you've got Rome, you got London, some other things. But even if you were to say like Madrid, what comes to mind when you think of Madrid?

Omar:

If for me, it's football, soccer.

Gary:

Yeah. Um, and, and most Americans, aren't going to think of that.

Um, you know, they've heard of Madrid, but they couldn't tell you anything about it. Uh, same with Lisbon or, you know, a lot of these other places. And so it, it is to a large extent, a lot of ignorance. And if you look at where Americans travel, for example, when they go to Europe, uh, it's Italy, Ireland, those are the two big ones and the UK as well.

So you have, you know, a country that speak, two countries that speak English and, uh, Ireland and Italy it's because you have a lot of Americans with Irish or Italian ancestry. And, and that's, that's why they go there.

Omar:

Do you find that people well that follow your blog to kind of, I guess, get a source of inspiration from you to check out these different places in a way like you give awareness to these people to actually go out off the beaten path themselves and check out these different destinations, these unknown destinations around the world?

Gary:

I hope so. I mean, I know some people have, um, people don't really follow blogs anymore. I think that's one of the problems. Um, when I started that's how you used to do it. The blog was your social media and then social media supplanted that. And now if people are coming to a website, it's because they're doing a search and social media has become, become kind of toxic and that's not really a fun place to hang out.

So it's, the whole landscape is changing and then toss a pandemic on top of it. And I have no idea what's going to come out at the other end of this.

Omar:

I've had quite a few discussions with the other digital nomads and remote workers. And we're starting to think that the entire, uh, like we think it's actually an accelerated the whole digital nomad traveling movement, like these small, different places off the beaten path that no one really ever cares about.

Gary:

Mumbai is a good example. You know, I know tons of digital nomad types and they all go to Bali.

Omar:

Exactly or Chiang Mai

Gary:

Bali and Chiang Mai. Yup. And I went to Chiang Mai before that was a thing. So I got to like see it before the bros came in. And so I have no desire to go Chiang Mai anymore.

But you don't have to go to any of those places. Right. Um, you know, uh, within the last few months, several countries, Estonia, Barbados, and I want to say Georgia, so they changed their visa policies to allow digital nomad type people to come in and stay for a year. And this is, this is something they should have done a long time ago because these people, you know, the reason why you have visas is because you don't want someone coming in and staying forever and taking jobs from locals.

That's the reason. And, but if you, if you have a job and you're coming there to just live for a while, all you're doing is spending money. Right. You're not taking anyone's job. You're just spending money at cafes and restaurants and you know, your apartment. And so economically it's a good deal for these places.

So, and with the downturn in tourism. Yeah. You might see more people doing this. Um, it's certainly going to be more affordable to live in some of these places than it may be in the US. And that's the reason why everyone goes to Chiang Mai to be honest, you can just live dirt cheap there.

Omar:

Definitely. That's sort of, that's why a lot of people end up in Southeast Asia. Period. You know, it's funny, it's like almost a centralized hub these days to find digital nomads from all around the world. That, and I think Portugal, Lisbon in Portugal is starting to get really big as well from what I hear. A lot of people are starting to move down there.

Me personally, I wanted to go to Barbados for quite some time. So I think that's going to be my next destination myself got the Island fever. Like you did.

Gary:

Well, the Caribbean, you know, I get a lot of questions about that. Um, because you can, you know, if you look at a map of the Caribbean, Barbados is like the one Island that's kind of off the chain.

Um, so you can, you can Island hop through there. And I did a trip several years ago. I started in Puerto Rico and I went down to Trinidad and I just went all the way down, visiting every country and territory along the way. Um, so you, there are people in sailboats and things like that, but people ask me, can you do that in the Pacific? And the answer is not really. Because there the distances between places are huge.

Omar:

Sailing. You mean between islands? Is that what you mean?

Gary:

Yeah. If you own a sailboat and you're an experienced sailor. Yes. You can do that. And I know some people who have done it, but it's not as simple as you can just walk down to the port or the Marina in one of these islands.

And find someone who's going to be going to the next Island that's just 40 miles away and hitch a ride with them. You know, you help out, you know, you offer to clean their boat or something like that. That's really not possible in the Pacific. They just don't have as many people visiting there.

Omar:

Is that what it is?

Lack of people visiting, and that's why there's not options or is it choppy waters or what's going on around there?

Gary:

All the above. I mean, just navigating in the middle of the Pacific ocean is a lot harder. It's a lot more dangerous and you don't have as many people, you know, most, um, I don't know if it's most, but a lot of the tourists that go to Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, these places are all from Australia or New Zealand.

Because those are the large population centers and the richest places in the region. Um, so I've been to some of them where they assumed I was Australian because I was speaking English and I was like, no, I'm American. And then their attitude completely changed. It would be like, if you were Australian and you were going to Cancun and someone thought you were American. You're like, no, no, I'm not American. Because if you go to Mexico, Americans are the bad tourists. Well, Australians are the bad tourists when you go to Bali or a lot of these, you know, Pacific countries, they just flip the script on you.

Omar:

Right. So, I mean, um, when they, when you flip the script and you told them you were in American, was that good? Is that a good thing?

Gary:

Oh yeah. I remember the Solomon Islands. And he was like, Oh yeah. Uh, cause they still, you know, uh, have fond memories of the Americans coming there and, and, you know, in world war II and liberating them from the Japanese, it's like, “Oh yeah, I'll take you up. And there's a tank up there, then there's this monument”, and blah, blah, blah.

Omar:

That's so awesome. And you've been traveling for so long. You must have all these incredible stories. I want to ask you so many questions, questions that I never really get to ask, like normal digital nomads and remote workers, because like a lot of them just end up going to places for a few months at a time and they worked, but they've been doing the digital nomad thing for not for like 10 or 15 years, you know, they've only been doing it for three to six years and they've only probably been to  like five to six countries. You, on the other hand, have lived on all seven continents and I've gone to so many different countries.

So I really, I'm going to start off asking this question. It's something…

Gary:

Well, let me say, I'm not a digital nomad per se. Not as the term now is defined, I’m a traveler.

Omar:

But you are a traveler. Exactly. Yeah. You're born and bred traveler. That’s what you are.

Gary:

So my goal is not to go, you know, rent, an apartment or something like that for six months.

I think the longest I've ever stayed anywhere was three months.

Omar:

I know there's this time period that you've got to kind of soak in the culture and the place. Right. But do you move between countries quite frequently? I mean, aside from being back home in America right now?

Gary:

Well, so I was, I didn't have a home for nine years.

And then about five years ago, I got an apartment that I just left. Um, because I was in the Dominican Republic. I remember I was in Santo Domingo. And I was sitting on a bed and the bed had or the room had no desk. So I was on the bed, cross-legged on my computer on crappy wifi. And that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

And I'm like, screw this. Um, I just, I got kind of burned out and I probably should have done it a few months earlier to be honest or a few years earlier. Um, but so I moved, I got a place in Minneapolis, which was not far from the airport at least, you know, like a 20-minute Uber ride. In Minneapolis, you can get direct flights to Europe or Asia.

Uh, it's in the middle of the country. It's where I used to live. So it was a good choice and I would still travel like a third to a half of the year, so.

Omar:

Okay. So you had a history (inaudible) moved around a lot?

Gary:

Yeah, I just, I just have, now I don't know what the deal is going to be, but we'll see.

Omar:

We’ll see what happens.

Well, as someone who's traveled so many countries and continents already. My first obvious question is going to be what has been that one place that's really stood out in your mind over the years.

Gary:

So, yeah, I guess, I mean, the question is always usually phrased what's your favorite country.

There is no answer to that because your experience in a place is so formed by the circumstances of your visit. The weather, the time of year, the people you meet, you know, I've had people that, you know, they went to Vietnam or something and they got ripped off. And then they come back and say, Oh, I'm never going to Vietnam. You should never go to Vietnam. It's terrible. People are trying. It's like, no, one bad thing happened to you, right? You have gone there and flipped a coin and if that wouldn't have happened there would have been a totally different experience. I've been to places multiple times and I've had a different experience each time because I stay in a different place or I meet different people and I had different experiences.

So to always say that there's a best, and countries for the most part are actually big. Right. Um, even US States are pretty big. You can't just, you know, there are parts of Texas which suck. You know, in West Texas, there's nothing there. It is completely a wasteland. Then there are parts of Texas that are pretty cool, but it's all the same state.

So the answer is, so that's a long-winded way. So the answer I normally give to that question, cause I don't want to go into that with most people, is I say, always say South Georgia Island.

Omar:

South Georgia Island.

Gary:

Yeah. So if Georgia is between Africa and South America above Antarctica, and it's the, uh, where Ernest Shackleton rescued his men.

And it's one of the most amazing places on earth. You cannot fly there. There is no airport. Uh, you have to go by ship and most people will visit there as part of a trip to Antarctica, uh, which is how I did it. So we left (inaudible). I went to the Falkland islands, went to South Georgia, Antarctica, and then back and it's an amazing place. You get off the ship and you see a quarter million penguins on the beach and they have no fear of humans and it's loud. Cause they're all squawking and it smells because it's all penguin poop and dead penguins everywhere. And, uh, it's an incredible, incredible experience that few people on the planet ever get to see.

Omar:

Wow. I was going to rephrase that question as what's been that one experience in your mind that stood the test of time over the years, but would you count that as the same answer?

Gary:

Uh, no. I've had a couple that are really cool. Um, you know, whether it's scuba diving in the jellyfish lake in Palau, which was amazing.

Um, I got to ride in a formula one race car. I got to land on the and get launched from the deck of an aircraft carrier. And dog sledding up in the Yukon. Um, you know, when I was in Bangkok, I was there in 2010 during the protests. And one day they were protesting a few blocks from where I was staying.

So I took my camera and I spent the afternoon between several hundred cops in riot gear and several thousand protestors. And I'm just this white dude with a nice camera who stand in between them. And, uh, you know, they kept moving back and forth. I took some, it was one of the most exciting things I'd ever done.

Uh, I wasn't really that scared because as a foreigner, I had nothing to do with the conflict and both sides knew that, you know, it wasn't a participant either way. Um, Got some fantastic photos and I’ll always remember that, but it was, uh, yeah, it was, it was really interesting. Um, you know, hot air ballooning in South Africa. Oh, diving with great white sharks in South Africa. I did that.

Omar:

In a cage or like literally swimming next to them?

Gary:

Oh, no, you're in a cage. Absolutely. Uh, did the, one with whale sharks out in Western Australia. That was really cool. A lot of it, you know, some of the places I've been to are places, you know, the, the other place I really, I like championing, being a champion for these places that no one visits and one of them is Nahanni national park and I'm guessing you've never heard of Nahanni national park.

Omar:

No.

Gary:

Most people have not. It's in Canada. It's maybe the greatest national park in the world. Um, most Canadians have never heard of it, but the reason why no one's heard of it is because it's way up in the Northwest territories and there are no roads connecting it to the outside world.

It has one of the largest waterfalls in the world, in terms of volume. It has the same volume approximately as Victoria falls in Africa. Uh, but it's higher than Niagara falls. It has fantastic mountain, stunning, you know, mountain scapes, canyons, gorges.

Omar:

What's the place called again?.

Gary:

Nahanni. N A H A N N I. There's about a two, two and a half month window that you can visit in the summer. Uh, you have to fly in on a float plane. And I've talked about this on radio interviews and TV interviews. I've done. I do a lot of these, these interviews. I don't know of a single person that's actually gone there yet from me mentioning it. Um, cause I know I still talk to, uh, one of the guys that runs the float plane company that I went with and um, I talked to him recently. I said, yeah, I've been, you know, I've been talking it up, but I don't know if anyone's taken the bait because it's not easy, you know?

You have to drive to one to two places, Fort Simpson, Northwest territories, which you can drive there. Cause I did it. I drove all the way from Wisconsin. Or you can drive to, um, Mongo Lake… Muncho Lake. I'm sorry, not Mongo. Mongo's in Australia. Muncho Lake in Northern British Columbia and fly in from there.

And, uh, I don't know of a single other person that's done it yet. So I'm still kind of waiting. So if you do it man let me know,

Omar:

I will definitely let you know, it sounds like an absolute adventure and a dream.

Gary:

Oh, another great place in Canada that very few people visit. And I should say Nahanni gets about 800 visitors a year, 800.

Omar:

That's more than I thought.

Gary:

That's one hour in like Yosemite.

Omar:

It's true. That's very true.

Gary:

Yeah. There's way more people in the park. The other is Tongan mountains national park, which is in the Northern most tip of Labrador and Labrador.

Omar:

Labrador? Is that a country?

Gary:

No, it's part of Canada. Labrador, Newfoundland is the Eastern most province in Canada.

Omar:

Near Nova Scotia.

Gary:

Uh, North of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland is the Island. Labrador is the continental part and the Northern most tip of that. And there are fjords there, and most people don't know that there are fjords in North America. You think of Norway when you think of fjords. And it is a national park, but it's mostly run by the local Inuit community there.

And, uh, they have a base camp you have to stay at where you basically are in a, I dunno, it's like a fiberglass igloo, uh, saw the Northern lights. We saw polar bear. Um, in fact they have an electric fence around the camp because of the polar bears. But, you know, we went out, I remember one day for lunch, we got in a boat, we went to the end of this fjord and they said, okay, for lunch, here's lunch and they gave everyone fishing poles and we had to catch lunch and we call it Arctic char. And it was the best fish I'd ever had in my life. Honest to God.

Omar:

That’s insane.

Gary:

You know, one evening even, uh, some of the guys cause they're Inuit, they have hunting rights for that land, they shot a seal and we got to have seal for, uh, for dinner.

Omar:

One hell of an experience.

Gary:

Yeah. And so people don't even know of these places.

You know, in the United States, uh, it’d probably a bit more popular like Katmai national park in Alaska or, um, Gates of the Arctic national park. No, but nobody goes there. Nobody goes there. There's no trails. There's no signs. There's no visitor center. There's no nothing. There's not, I mean, literally when I went to Colebrook Valley national park, you had to fly in your own sign if you wanted to take a picture because there's, it is absolute wilderness. In the truth and literal sense of the word and that there is not a thing there for visitors or guests.

Omar:

I think there's like the sense of safety for people that when they visit these places, uh, it brings a sense of comfort when there's like a local tourism center or some sort of like trails or something that shows that some human has been there and kind of explored it, you know, and maybe that's…

Gary:

You know… It's just accessibility, you know, Northern Alaska, doesn't, no one lives there. Right. It's hard to get to and it always will be. And it all, you know, Nahanni is never going to be an easy place to get to. Yosemite is three hours away from San Francisco. Uh, that's why it gets so many visitors that, you know, I mean, it's, it's a great park on top of it, even if it was further away, a lot of people would still go, but it's accessible. You can drive to the grand Canyon from Las Vegas. Um, so that's, you know, it helps when you have that accessible element to it, but yeah, there's a lot of, there's there's and the weird thing is the more I travel, the more cool stuff I find that I didn't even know about because, and so the list of things I want to do just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Omar:

That makes sense that never ending sense of wonder that never really leaves. I get that feeling. Do you find, just out of curiosity here, do you find that places that are more unknown and less accessible tend to be, I mean, I know it's hard to compare and put it on a scale and say one place is better than another, but do you find them to be more beautiful? I guess you could use that word comparatively to like other places that are much more accessible. Like if you were to compare one national park that like the one in Northeast Canada versus Yosemite, like, do you find the ones that are less accessible to be, since they're more untouched, to be more beautiful?

Gary:

I don't know if they're necessarily better. I mean, Yosemite and the grand Canyon and Yellowstone are great parks. There's a reason why people, I mean, uh, Yellowstone is the counterexample to what I was just saying. It's not near anything. You have to go out of your way to go to Yellowstone.

But the reason why people do it is because it's a great park. And so there are a lot of places that get a lot of visitors do so for good reason. Paris is a great city. Rome is a great city. Um, you know, when a lot of people think of India, first thing comes to mind, Taj Mahal, right? That's the first thing.

And the Taj Mahal is great, but you know, I fear that they're missing out on stuff if you go to Agra and that's the only thing you see is the Taj Mahal, because there's other, Fatehpur Sikri, which is not far away, fantastic place and fraction of the visitors that you'll see at the Taj Mahal.

So I don't think they're necessarily better because they're more remote, but I do think you, you're going to get an experience that you're not going to get if you go to a busier park or, you know, it's, it's also when you go. So the most popular park in Canada is Banff national park in Calgary. I'm sorry. Uh, Alberta.

And I've been there several times. If you go in July, which I have done it is horrible because it is just busloads and busloads of people. I've also gone in January. There's nobody there and it's just snow everywhere. And it's a completely, completely different experience. And most people again, why do we go places at certain times of the year?

It's because that's when you have time off. That's when the kids aren't in school and you know, everyone kind of has these calendars that are similar. So we go to the same places at the same time. And when you hear people talk about over tourism, that's the problem. It's not too many people traveling. It's too many people traveling to the same place at the same time.

Omar:

That makes total sense. I'm curious if someone who's like traveled as long as you have. Well, what's your, I mean, you live a pretty different life than many people have and probably a life that most people would never really get to experience.

What would you feel like your philosophy of life is at this point? I know it's a very generic question and it's hard to put in one line but try to describe it to me.

Gary:

Actually, I got an answer for that. Uh, the, the standard, when I get, um, the ability to adapt is more important than the ability to plan.

Because you plan a trip, I guarantee you within the first few days, you're off your plan. Something's going to come up or an opportunity is going to arise that you're going to want to do something cool. And having a set plan doesn't allow for, you know, the sort of spontaneous things to occur and think if, you know, if you have a, having a plan is fine.

Um, let's say you had a plan for what was going to happen in 2020. Well, that all went out the window.

Omar:

Right.

Gary:

Right? In March. Everybody I never in a million years would have thought that one, the travel and tourism industry would basically vanish. Didn't see that coming. Uh, and two, I lived in Minneapolis, one block off Lake street.

I never ever thought that it would be destroyed by a riot. Never. And that happened. So planning for stuff, you know. Okay. What happens when your plan goes haywire, which is going to happen? Well, you have to adapt and that's that ability to adapt when you're traveling is really, really important. Because stuff's going to happen and you just need to know how to roll with it.

Omar:

Right. I think some would say planning and adapting is even a better way of experiencing things rather than trying to structure everything in a, some certain plan. You know, I think it removes the joy from your trip per se. Like if you're trying to structure and plan every destination and every experience that you're trying to have ahead of time.

Gary:

An example this year, uh, the only international trip I've taken this year, I went to Portugal. I was there in February.

Uh, I had to go there for a meeting. And then I basically had a week and a half after that meeting. And I didn't know what I was going to do till the morning when I had to decide what I was going to do. So I basically kind of had three options. One, I was going to go to the Canary islands, that didn't come through.

I was going to work with the tourism board. Option two, I was going to go to Marietta or the Azores that I looked at the flights. It just didn't sit with me. So I abandoned that. Then I went with option three, which was rent a car and drive around Portugal. Uh, which is what I ended up doing. So I drove around south and central Portugal visiting a UNESCO world heritage sites and had a good time.

Uh, and even then, every day I would just wake up and I was like, all right, how far, how far can I drive today? What, you know, I got a good sense of this now, because I've done it so many times. How far can you drive? How long does it take to visit a site? You know, let's say visit a cathedral or something like that.

You know, it probably is not going to take you more than two hours. Maybe an hour because it's a single building and you know, there's a limited amount of time. Whereas if you're going to, say, Rome, well, you're not going to see everything there in a week. You could spend a month there just going out everyday looking at stuff and you're never going to conceive at all.

Omar:

Where do you find your joy when you go to a new place, do you find it from seeing different things? Like, or do you find it more in the people there that you meet? Or what is it exactly? I think it's a little bit different for everyone and what they find in a new place.

Gary:

It's really about learning. Um, I actually started a brand new podcast, uh, two months ago, two and a half months ago. And it's not a travel podcast, but it's kind of travel related and it's just about, it's a daily show. And it's all just about random stuff, much of which came from my travels. So for example, the episode that I'm going to do, so it's a scripted show. I got to write the script every day and then I got to read it.

Um, that'll be on the show tomorrow is about the city of Nijmegen in the Netherlands. So. I'm guessing you've probably never even heard of Nijmegen.

Omar:

I have not

Gary:

Unless you're Dutch or, you know, you’re from there, you probably haven't. It's a decent sized industrial city on the Rhine river. But in world war two, what happened is, uh, after the allies landed, there was this thing called operation market garden, which was an attempt to rush up, uh, the Netherlands to take all these bridges so the forces could follow behind. And there's this, the bridge in Nijmegen, there, they had to get these makeshift boats made out of canvas. They had no paddles. So they'd use the butts of their gun. These American soldiers had to cross the river. 24 of them died in the process. Uh, and it was immortalized in the film of Bridge Too Far where Robert Redford and his men had to do this.

Well, the city of Nijmegen, built a new bridge to replace this one that was captured in world war II. And I want to say they did this 10 years ago, it's a relatively new bridge. It's a pretty modern bridge. What they did is that they, um, put 24 sets of streetlights going across the bridge. And every day, every single day, since this bridge has been opened, there are two veterans, someone with military service who walk across that bridge, uh, and the lights go on as they walk across it.

They do this every day of the year, regardless of temperature, regardless, rain, sleet, or snow, and you can join them on this sunset walk every day. And I got to do this, and I'd never heard about this before. And so this story is going to be tomorrow’s show.

Omar:

That's cool.

Gary:

Today's show was about how humans discovered fire.

And, uh, you know, I got to mention some places I've been to like a cave in Israel and, uh, one cave I haven't visited in South Africa where they found evidence of, you know, ash or long layers of bones and, and tools that were used hundreds of thousands of years ago. But it's stuff like that.

That's not, Oh, stay at this hotel, get on this airline, which what we normally think of as travel. But that's why I travel is to learn cool stuff. And that's, so it's not travel show, but in my mind it is, because that's why I travel.

Another example. So we talked about Barbados a few minutes ago, right? I was in Barbados. I think it was two years ago now. And, uh, one question I always had was why does Barbados exist? Not, you know, why is the Island there, but why is it a country? Because if you haven't noticed, the Caribbean is filled with tiny little countries that were all British territories, they speak the same language.

There’s huge amount of commonality. They use the same currency. Uh, yeah, they're all different countries. Why wasn't it just one big Island country, like Indonesia or the Philippines, right. That there's an archipelago, but it's one country. But the Caribbean is not one country. So I wanted to answer. I wanted this question answered and I found that there's a reason for it.

That was the original plan. So when Britain was decolonizing stuff in the sixties, the plan was they were going to create a country that was called the West Indian Federation. And if, you know, uh, like for cricket, the West Indies is one team. They all joined together to play cricket, but not for anything else.

Omar:

Right.

Gary:

So the plan was okay, we're going to create this country. And the capital was going to be in Jamaica, in Kingston, because that was the largest country in terms of population. And Jamaicans said, no, we're going to go off on our own. We're going to do our own thing, so they’re like, all right, now the capital is going to be in Trinidad.

That would be the next biggest. And they were like, no, we're going to do our own thing. And then next, now, now we've gone from like, I think 2 million people roughly in Jamaica now we're down to Barbados, which is then going to be the capital. And that's like, I don't know, 250,000 people. And then they didn't want to, and then it just kind of all fell apart.

And now they're all just these tiny little countries, uh, that are all kind of their own thing, but they're kind of in ways, not because they do work together closely and they have similar laws. There's a similar court system, currency, and all this stuff.

Omar:

Sweet. What's the name of your show?

Gary:

Uh, everything everywhere. Everything, everywhere daily. You've probably heard the expression. Something is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Okay. So I did a show on sliced bread, uh, when slice bread was invented and why we use that phrase.

Omar:

Your curiosity is insane.

Gary:

You know, why is the American currency called the dollar? And why are other countries like Australia and New Zealand and Canada, why do they use something called a dollar. And again, there's a reason for it. It's kind of circuitous how you get there, but it actually makes sense once, you know, the story.

Omar:

You're such a curious person, but you never actually even left the country until you were 21. Where was that shift?

Gary:

Books. I was like, I was the kid that read the encyclopedia, you know, going out for an Almanac or something.

I think the shift was, uh, you know, having a, that first opportunity to travel after I sold my company and then just deciding I was going to do it, you know, I was at a point in my life where there was no reason for me not to do it. Because, you know, I had no kids, I wasn't married. Uh, at the time I didn't have a job, I had a fair amount saved up from selling my company and my house.

So why not do it? And that's what I did.

Omar:

Let's close this podcast off with one final question here, Gary. And, uh, this is something that I asked pretty much everybody that comes on this show, but your answer, I think it's going to be really interesting and kind of set it apart from everyone else that I've asked this simply because of how long you've been traveling for, what would you say has changed in the way that you perceive people in life since the moment that you started traveling up until now?

Gary:

I've, I've really understood the importance of culture. And culture is not just the food you eat and the music you listen to and the way you dress, those are like the superficial layer of culture.

Culture is a lot deeper than that. And it goes into what you think and how you think. And, uh, there's a story I always tell that kind of shows it. I was on the Island of Samoa and it was on like the second Island of Savai’i, and I was driving around and I noticed there wasn't any commerce that's uh, like there were no stores, there were no signs. There were no businesses. There wasn't anything that you would normally think of in any country that you would see.

There was some stuff that I saw in near like where the ferry terminal was. A small store. I think a nightclub there, but the rest of the Island, there wasn't really much of anything. There wasn't anyone, you know, shoe repair or anything.

And I asked, and I asked the guy about this and he basically said, you know, uh, it wasn't a law, but they have a very strong village system in Samoa. The guy basically said, you know, whatever you make, 90% of your money is going to go to your village and your family. So there isn't a whole lot of incentive to work. So most people go to New Zealand, they get a job there and they send money back and they can make more money doing that.

Another thing I was in Hong Kong. I was walking around, and I walked past a burger King and okay, that's fine. I've seen burger Kings in other countries, but this was weird because it was filled with flowers. Like it was a funeral or something. Um, so I had to figure out why there were flowers in a Burger King. So I went in and I started looking at the flowers, made cards on them. Most of them were in Chinese, so I didn't know what it was, but I found one that was finally in English. And it said, congratulations on your grand opening.

And this is a cultural thing. In Hong Kong, they, uh, opening a new business was a reason for celebration. In other countries, uh, it's not the same thing. You know, if you try to open a business, you're gonna sing, you're gonna have your members of your extended family. It's like, Oh, your cousin, he could really use a job and Oh, and it becomes very difficult.

And so you find this in a lot of communities where the people who immigrate are far more successful than the people that stay home. And it's not because, you know, it's a cultural thing more than anything else where they get that freedom. And sometimes staying home is the reason why some countries are different than others.

Um, and this is not a law. It's not a system of legislation. It's not a, something, a piece of legislation you could sign to change it. It's ingrained into people and it's very hard to change. And it affects lots of little things from relationships to business, to common social interactions on the street and understanding that, and you know, and culture, isn't just, you know, on borders of a country, they can be broader.

You can have, um, a broader culture like of Europe, right. Of European or the West. And in Southeast Asia, you know, the many different countries, there may have some things in common, but then you could have subcultures as well, where it could just be a particular area or particular region has things that they do and, and really understanding how that can be very different and it can affect how people think and act.

Omar:

I absolutely know what you're talking about. Just being like a firstborn generation American with my parents coming down here from Egypt, the way they think and the way that they act, their entire culture of just being the way that they are. And I always thought in my head, as I grew up, like my dad's been here for maybe 29, 28 years. Right. And he’s still exactly that same way that he was before he left Egypt and I was starting my head, like, why hasn't he been Americanized yet? I mean, he's been here since he was 20 years old, you know, but when you say it that way, it really makes me think that it's hard to get that culture when it's ingrained in so deeply.

It's hard to get that out the way that you think, the way that you act, the way that you handle it and perceive things. You know, my dad has a very, a different way of seeing human relationships and a business in general, and people in general, compared to someone like me who was born in America, born in Houston.

You know what I mean?

Gary:

Oh, I, so my family was German and there's nothing about us. There's no holidays, no celebrations, no dress, no music, nothing that you celebrate from German, because if you were in… A lot of people don't realize this, Germans are the largest ethnic group in the United States. But the first world war made it highly fashionable to be German.

And the second world war did not help. Um, so it wasn't something you ever, so I had a great grandmother and a great aunt who spoke German and they were the last people in our family ever to do it. And since then there's been like no interest, no one knows anything. Uh, I've also learned from traveling.

So for example, when I lived in Minneapolis, the guy that owned this chicken wing stand a couple blocks from me was from Egypt. Um, so I'd ask them where they were from. And, uh, so when I checked out, I said, thank you in Arabic and their eyes just lit up. Like, you know, that's like, Oh yeah, I've been to Egypt. I've, you know, I've been all the way down to Aswan and, uh, all the way up to Alexandria and I've been to, you know, the Sinai and everything.

And they're like, Oh, and just. Now acknowledging and having some sort of, you know, understanding of a place completely changed their attitude towards me. And then from there on every time I came in, they were really nice to me. They'd give me like, you know, free French fries or something like that. And just because I took the time to, you know, say, Oh yeah I know that.

Omar:

It’s feeling like an insider or they almost feel like you're an insider in a way, you know how like humans, I think, I feel like categorize people as they meet as either like an outsider, someone who's with them, or is an insider as someone who understands them right. In that moment that you, I guess you said that word, it kind of felt like it flipped that switch for them. And you were an insider. You were one of them, all of a sudden.

Well, Gary, it was an absolute pleasure having you on man.

Gary:

Love doing it.

Omar:

Yeah. You were an absolute legend in the traveler community. You really remind me of Anthony Bordain in a really weird way. Um, just maybe a bit more curious and less about food, I think, which is super cool.

Gary:

Yeah, he was, he was, he was really, I actually met him sort of, kind of once a few months before he died. Uh, we were both in Lafayette, Louisiana. Uh, they were recruiting a show, recording some stuff for his show and I was there in a press trip and, um, we were at the same hotel. And like every day for like four days, he would be out looking hung over, smoking a cigarette and, uh, texting someone on his phone.

And, uh, yeah, I wouldn't really want to say I met him or anything. Cause I didn't go over and introduce myself, (inaudible) what the hell does he need that? Um, but then I was really shocked when a few months later he, when he died so.

Omar:

Yeah. Crazy. All right. Well, Gary, where can people find you now, if they are looking for you, the podcast name I believe was travel everywhere or everything.

Gary:

Everything everywhere.

Omar:

Everything everywhere by Gary. How do you pronounce your last name by the way?

Gary:

Arndt. One hard dramatic syllable. Ardnt.

Omar:

Sounds, definitely sounds German.

Gary:

It is.

Omar:

Cool. All right. Thank you so much, Gary Arndt. It was an absolute pleasure.

Gary:

Thank you for having me.

Outro-

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