Van Life and Skoolies, Living Life as a Youtuber on the Road With Chris Penn of Tiny Home Tours | TNE057

Today's guest is an absolute legend in the van life and skoolie space. Skoolie is short for school bus, something I actually learned during this interview. 

We're joined by Chris Penn, creator of Tiny Home Tours on YouTube and Off Grid Skoolie. Chris has been living his life on the road for over ten years and during that time, he's taken his passion for unconventional travel and turned it into a branded creative business. 

Chris now has multiple YouTube channels out there including Tiny Home Tours, which has nearly 650,000 subscribers. He's also got a team of videographers working for him and a fully custom built Skoolie, which he's affectionately named Zeplin 2.

Join us while we dive deep into Chris's business, philosophy and life of freedom.

Show Notes 

[11:40] What is an entrepreneurial mind?
[16:15] How can you use the pyramid content repurposing model to grow your business?

[20:51] How did Chris Penn get into the van life?

[24:25] What is the best thing about having a nomadic lifestyle?

[36:25] What strategies did Chris Penn use to grow his online business?

[40:55] Tips on starting your own van/skoolie rig

Chris Penn's links:
https://www.theoffgridskoolie.com

Omar's (Host) Social Media:
Instagram - @nomadables
TikTok - @nomadables
Facebook Group - NOMADABLES - Accountability & Growth Community for Remote Workers- Perfect to meet fellow online entrepreneurs, remote workers, and digital nomads.
YouTube - Omar Mo
LinkedIn - Omar Mo Nomads Cast
Twitter - @nomadables
Pintrest - @nomadables
Clubhouse - @pods
WEBSITE: https://www.nomadables.com/

Transcript

Episode 57- Van Life and Skoolies, Living Life as a Youtuber on the Road With Chris Penn of Tiny Home Tours | TNE057

Intro-

Creaky old rust bucket with cracks on the hole. Rolling along roads, dragging tires so dull. Sailing its crew of a pirate and gypsy. Floating past waterfalls and black sand sees. At the base of Mordor, its passengers travel climbing higher up as their bodies unravel. That paints a pretty grim yet adventurous picture doesn't it? It's actually a poem I wrote in New Zealand back in 2019. 

Now, to give you some context here, my ex-partner and I at that time had been living in a camper van for a few months, and we had planned this incredible trek, this eight-hour hike, one of the bests in New Zealand up the nefarious, notorious Mount Doom from the original Lord of the Rings movies. If you've ever watched any of those movies, you know what I'm talking about. 

Now, this isn't an easy hike by any means and I know some of you seasoned hikers are probably listening to this and laughing but for the average hiker, it's pretty hard. It's about an eight-hour trip that spans over 22 kilometers. And this is where it gets a little bit funny, right. So just a few days prior, we had done a few “mini hikes” to kind of get ourselves accustomed for the giant hike, that was to happen in a few days. And on one of those hikes, we had both worn our shoes and waited through a river just to kind of cool off. 

After we got back to our camper van, naturally we left the shoes on top of the van just to let them dry out, get some sun. We took the time to kind of sit down, grab some lunch, cook a little bit of food, wash the dishes and then get ready to get going again. 

So, we pack our things, get into the van and set out on our journey. Two minutes later, while driving down the highway, you hear a thunk. I turned over to my partner and I looked at her and I said, what the hell was that? The shoes. We had totally forgotten the shoes on top of the camper van, and they had fallen off on the highway at some godforsaken point that we had no idea where, and no idea how to find them. But we gave it a shot. 

So, we backtracked a few times, drove around in a few circles and eventually, we found her shoes lying in the middle of the street, but we couldn't find mine. At that point, I had a choice to make. The nearest town that sold shoes was about half a day's drive away. So, either A, I didn't go on the hike or B, I brought out my new pair of Converse to go on the hike. As you can imagine, I picked choice B because I was going to go hike Mount Doom. 

A few days later, we went on that hike and I climbed up rocky mountains, slid down, dusty areas, waded through water, mud, traveled through heavy winds in and hiked 22 kilometers, all in a pair of Converse. By the end of it, my feet were cut up, I was absolutely exhausted, and from all of that, that poem was born. But not all of it’s bad, it actually has a pretty happy ending. 

The very next day, I got this bright idea. We had taken a few pictures at the peak of the mountain around a place called Emerald lake. If any of you guys have ever hiked Mount Doom, you know what I'm talking about. I decided to take those pictures and then email them to Converse HQ saying something along the lines of, and I don’t remember what my words were exactly, but I said, hey, I just hiked 22 kilometers in these pair of Converse and here are some pictures to prove that I did it. Enjoy.

Not even an hour later, Converse responds saying, we just showed our entire office these pictures and all of us are cracking up. So naturally, in a very cheeky way, I respond back saying, so could you send over a new pair of Converse? And they did, so that was cool. 

Now, you're probably thinking to yourself, why am I telling you this story? Well, today's guest is an absolute legend in the van life and skoolie space. Skoolie is short for school bus, something I actually learned during this interview. 

We're joined by Chris Penn, creator of Tiny Home Tours on YouTube and Off Grid Skoolie. Chris has been living his life on the road for over ten years and during that time, he's taken his passion for unconventional travel and turned it into a branded creative business. 

Chris now has multiple YouTube channels out there including Tiny Home Tours, which has nearly 650,000 subscribers. He's also got a team of videographers working for him and a fully custom built Skoolie, which he's affectionately named Zeplin 2.

Join us while we dive deep into Chris's business, philosophy and life of freedom.

Remember, Nomad fam, we've got some incredibly value-filled episodes planned out for you, so please hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Your review helps this podcast become more visible and ultimately inspire more people just like you. Here we go. My name’s Omar Mo, and this is The Nomadic Executive

You're listening to The Nomadic Executive hosted by Omar from nomadables.com. Join Omar as he sits down and speaks with leading online entrepreneurs, remote workers and digital nomads about everything from business strategy to travel and lifestyle design. Together, we're here to help you achieve a life of happiness, health and freedom. And now here's your host, Omar Mo.

Omar:

All right, Chris. Happy to have you, man. Welcome to The Nomadic Executive.

Chris:

Thanks for having me, bud. I appreciate it.

Omar

Absolutely, man. I think you've got an incredibly interesting story that I'm really excited to share with my audience today and simply because I'm able to relate in a very, very low and small degree. The fact that I did van life for about seven months in New Zealand but you blow that out completely out of the water. Living in a school bus, living in an RV, even living in a van for a little bit. For now ten plus years, is that correct?

Chris:

Yeah. So, I got my first van after graduating college here in the States 2009. Soon after that, I did a very simple conversion, it was basically a soccer mom van, very simple build. Put the back seats down, put a mattress on that, build some very simple cabinets and hit the road with my dog for about a month or two. And that was the first dive into, you know, van life is before hashtag van life before it was popular, before I knew what the hell I was doing. Like, I was just out there living as cheaply as possible, eating [inaudible 1:05] three times a day. I still can eat it to this day, you know.

 So, just kind of roughing it and from there, it just moved on to bigger and better rigs and finding my ideal lifestyle out on the road.

Omar:

So that initial period of you kind of converting that first van, that was right after college, is that right?

Chris:

Right. Yeah. So I did my college internship. 01:30 I learned very quickly that the nine to five was not for me. And once I finished school, I knew I was going to either go back to grad school or find something else that I wanted to do. Like, entrepreneurship is not part of the lifestyle where I'm from small town Indiana. People typically get factory jobs, they work that ‘til they're 60-65 and they retire. And then they, you know, hang out in small towns. I mean that was the path that I was expecting. I didn't know how I was going to do that because I knew it wasn't for me but once I did that internship and actually got a taste of that nine to five, I knew that I had to figure something else out. 

Omar:

So, in the beginning, it sounds like you kind of just waded through the dark, trying to figure everything out. Trying to figure out how to make money online, trying to figure out how to make your first build, trying to do all of these things. How’d you manage?

Chris:

Yeah. So, it really wasn't even like making money online, wasn't even something that I even thought was possible when I first started because when I first started doing the nomadic lifestyle, it actually got, what I do is work industry jobs, bartending jobs, serving jobs. 

So, I would go to a new city, find a place to park the rig in the city and then I would work, you know, Thursday through Sunday at the bar and then I'd go out and explore the local area and then I'd go back to work and in the bar. And the online income again, I didn't have an entrepreneurial mind. It wasn't something that I even thought about, like I was just in the mindset I had to work for somebody to make my money and then I'd have X amount of freedom depending on what job that I worked, if that makes sense.

Omar:

That does totally make sense. You kind of had it all figured out. You had the whole, and I totally relate to this too because a lot of the traveling that I do when I first started as well was just jumping in job to job, figuring how long that money will last me and then traveling and then going back to working that job. So, you kind of did a similar thing, kind of almost systematized in your head to see how much money you needed to go for as long as you needed to go, then you go back and you go back to work, you know. That gets tiring though, doesn't it?

Chris:

It does. But I mean, it's kind of one of those things and I think it's the entrepreneurial mind where you like to start out, you know, base level, you learn the field and then you build your skills up and then you leverage that for more money. So, I was basically going into the bar industry like that. I've learned new skills, I would, you know, learn how to make new drinks, I’d get faster, I'd be a better barback, I would get faster at that. 

I've learned what bartenders wanted so I was like basically creating a system within the bar industry to make myself more money in less time so I could travel more and it was way later than I actually realized that you could, you know, do that with your own brands. You could build your own companies in the same game. I was still playing the same game when I started, you know, making my online income but it was still that same mindset. I just enjoyed coming in at that base level, building, putting processes in, and then advancing from there, you know what I mean?

Omar:

What an analogy. I've never seen that comparison made before. And I like the fact that you reference it as the entrepreneur mind because that's exactly what it is, right? You're just leveraging, you're creating systems and you're leveraging over and over and over again. You're stacking your skills over and over again until you're able to make something that saves you time and makes you more money. Why is it that you keep mentioning the entrepreneur mind? Where have you heard that before? I'm curious. 

Chris:

Well, it's an interesting time. So, we met via Clubhouse, right? You know, I was in a room or you're in a room and we connected on Instagram and via Clubhouse, it's the first time that I've actually been able to sit in on various successful people talking about high level stuff. You know, you might be able to go into a mastermind every once in a while, you might watch a YouTube video and somebody is interviewing somebody, but being able to sit in the room and listen to them hash things out, it just makes, it feels as though I've finally been able to listen in on people that have the same thought process as me and it's the first time that I've ever really been able to just sit back and listen to that. 

So, it just feels as though like I've always had this mindset but this is the first time that I've actually been able to have a solid idea of what that is. I've always been kind of like the weird kid that's just doing his own thing, right? Where I've never had anybody to kind of sit back and talk about it and just listening to these people, like I've been on Clubhouse like literally seven-eight hours a day at least, just listening to these conversations and I've finally got to the point where I realized that my mindset wasn't necessarily being the weird kid, it's just I've always thought of things differently and how I like to build things. 

So, as we're going back to the, you know, systematizing the industry jobs to what I'm doing online, it's the first time that I'm really starting to get an idea of that's just how some people think.

Omar

It's very true. It's funny that you mentioned that because I've never met so many entrepreneurs in one place and one gathering talking about the same things that you’re able to instantly relate to it and I totally get that feeling. So, what is it that you're doing then, today?

Chris:

Today, so where am I at with the brand--?

Omar:

With everything. Before we even dive into the actual build, because I want to go back to your build story and then go down the road of your school buses and all the bills that you've done, all that. Just right now today, what are you doing to make money online? Before we get that.

Chris:

Right. So, basic rundown. The main leverage that I have right now is a YouTube channel. It's what I started way back in the day, which was just showing friends and family, traveling on the road. The first month that I made, any money online, I made 25 cents and I had about 25 hours into it and I was absolutely stoked, like it was absolutely insane. I was able to create something, put it on the internet and make any money. Like, I literally text like seven or eight of my friends and send them screenshots, like this is like 2011-2012, you know. 

So right now, we have four monetized YouTube channels, the largest one being Tiny Home Tours and that's what's funding a lot of what we're doing. We have a team of seven videographers, three editors, three assistants on top of that that cut up the video for second form and third form content. What I mean by that is, you know, we'll take a longer video, we do videos in the tiny home space, so the three assistants will cut that down into one-minute, four-minute videos for either TikTok, Instagram, igtv, Facebook, and redistribute through all the social platforms and--

Omar:

Dude you systematized it pretty well then.

Chris:

Yeah. I mean, people listening to this probably know Gary Vaynerchuk, it’s the Gary Vee model, you know, take that--

Omar:

The standard 64 pyramid content repurposing model. I'm very aware of it, yeah. I think a lot of my audiences too, to be honest.

Chris:

Yeah. Just for those that don't know, it's basically taking one piece of long form content and breaking it down into 64 different versions. Well, we take that pretty literally, you know. Just the way our videos are, the different platforms that we're on, you know, the different ways you can repurpose it. We try and get those 64 pieces of content, you know.

Omar:

Very nice. Well, actually while we're on that, maybe you could answer one of my own questions here and I'm sure, and this is something that I've actually heard pretty commonly, not only amongst the clients that I work with myself, but as well as friends and other people that are in the social media content repurposing space. How do you repurpose TikTok videos?

Chris:

It's very simple. I mean, we break them down to 30 second to 60 second versions of the finished tours. We're starting to play around but I think we're in TikTok jail right now for whatever reason. But early on when we started posting again, listening to Gary Vee, we got into TikTok early and we had a couple of videos do 2 or 3 million views so that bumped up our following to about 66,000 followers in about a month. But since then, it's kind of stagnated so we're coming up with a new way to possibly do this.

But basically, all we do is cut down some of our most popular videos, so you know the most beautiful is just a quick hit. You know, they can see like the interiors--

Omar:

The aesthetic. Right

Chris:

Right, right. Just some somebody's story and, you know, a decent looking rig and then just post it on TikTok. And it wasn't even vertical, you know, it was like the typical-- 

Omar:

Horizontal?

Chris:

Right.

Omar:

See, that's what my question was. Like, I'm surprised those are actually hitting for you on TikTok because we as an industry tend to think those won't work.

Chris:

Well, apparently, maybe something changed or maybe something with the algorithm has changed because since then, like I said, I think we're in TikTok jail right now. But when we first started posting, I mean it might have been the early days, that's why we did so well. But yeah, we just posted it on there and, you know, the videos we're getting anywhere like an average video was 60,000 views. The good videos, like I said, 2 to 3 million views on TikTok and our following just absolutely exploded. And then just one day, it just went down 200-300 views per video and we're about to change it up. 

So, you asked where we're at right now, and this is going back to where we're at right now. The main priority for me, like my team is handling the day to day on everything. Like, we literally had a meeting about two hours ago for my number one and number three to start reviewing videos, so I'm out of that. Like, when a video comes in from an editor, I don't redo it anymore. They review it, it goes through two filters before it gets to me to post on YouTube.

But my main priority is to build mini buses for our videographers and our editors to be on the road. So basically, they get a rig and they have to produce x amount of content and vlog for us. Anything past that set amount of content, they get paid for. So, they get a rig, they get a built-in income. 

But what we're going to do is actually start switching the TikTok model to them, having access to the TikTok account and they'll create content, you know, the typical--

Omar:

Natively.

Chris:

Exactly. So, we're going to switch it up and play with that to where we have two or three people that are posting daily two or three times a day on TikTok and just see how that goes. You know, it's always testing and seeing how that goes but it's going to be people that have experienced with TikTok, people that have the look for TikTok, people that have the personality for TikTok and we're going to, you know, push it that way. Because we have some physical products that we developed that are going to be coming soon. And we're going to be pushing that on TikTok.

Omar:

We're starting to, our own business is actually starting to look to go that way as well. And in fact, you just opened up a new idea in my own head to actually get people that even have the personality and the look for it and maybe just start hiring full on TikTokers to make multiple videos for multiple channels. That's not a bad idea at all. I might have to look into that one myself. Thank you, Chris. 

Chris:

Yeah. 

Omar:

So, let's reverse back here now. Enough about TikTok and social media and all your business, but we will circle back around to that in a bit. But what I'm really, really curious about, we can start off with your initial build, right? A lot of my listeners, they're really curious about the van life. Some of them have even done it before themselves. I've had a few people on the podcast talking about van life but never in depth.

You're somebody who's done this for about 10, over 10 years in one form or another. But that first build that you made, how did you go all the way through it? I mean, having no idea of how to ever actually build a van in the first place, like what did you do? And back then, it was when van life hashtag per se wasn't a thing so, I'm sure there wasn't that many videos to give you direction on YouTube, so what did you do to kind of like, navigate your way and actually build that van in the first place?

Chris:

Well, it's interesting because that first build, it wasn't even about the build, it was about me getting on the road because-- I'll start with this, the genesis of me getting a van is one of my college jobs was working at TGI Fridays. And I went to Indiana State and there's the big interstate through there, there's a lot of people traveling through the Midwest through I-70, and there was a family that stopped off from the interstate that was traveling in an RV and they happen to be in my table and I started talking to them and they're like, yeah, we're just bouncing around in the RV traveling.

And by that time, I had studied abroad in Australia, I studied abroad in Italy and I knew traveling was something that I wanted to do and I wanted. Like I got to the point where I wanted to start traveling the United States and I was like, well, I can't afford an RV, I can't afford hotels, what's one way I can do this cheaply? And that's where the van originally came from. 

So, it wasn't necessarily that I was worried about the bill because I had no idea what I was doing. If I had a place to lay my head, like I was like a backpacker, I was like a dirtbag traveler, you know, the cheapest possible--

Omar:

I’ve been the type.

Chris:

Right. Like I would save $50 and sleep on a concrete floor at an airport just to save $50 to get a cheaper flight. Like that that was my life through my 20s, right. So, I didn't need anything fancy, it was just about a place for me to sleep and store some food and get from place to place. The build wasn't the priority, it’s me traveling, so it was like I had no idea what I was doing. Like, I literally had shelves for my canned food, I had a place to put my clothes and a place to sleep. That's all I worried about.

Omar:

And your dog, right?

Chris:

Right. So, it's just me and Cersei just bouncing around the US just going from spot-to-spot, couch surfing. Like, that's all I cared about, right? So, the first build was so rudimentary that, like I said, I still can't eat [inaudible 15:08] today because I ate that three times a day.

Omar:

I know the feeling. I had ramen like seven days a week whenever I was in college. I can’t touch that right now anymore and so I know the feeling. So, you did it for a while then all around the US, how long were you bouncing that in that first van? How long were you going around the US for? Just for that first vehicle.

Chris:

Right. So, the first vehicle, again, that was industry job, so I was working city to city, so that lasted for about a year and a half in that rig.

Omar:

You have any special memories during that time before you move on to the next one?

Chris:

Yeah, man. Like, I don't know how long this podcast needs to be but there were some interesting stories and--

Omar:

It can be as long as I want it to be. Tell me an interesting story.

Chris:

Oh, man. In that first van, one of my favorite memories in that rig—we'll do a PG version.

Omar:

I had a feeling you were going to say that. I had a feeling it wasn't going to be a PG version so I’m glad you said let's keep it PG. 

Chris:

Yeah. So, I was along the Blue Ridge trail in the Appalachians, it’s the first time I ever been in mountains, really like being an Indiana boy, at least in the states, being in the mountains in the States. It was kind of a rainy day and I ended up going to the top of the mountain. It was super overcast and my dog and I just hung out all day, just kind of walking around these trails, like it was super smoky up there. 

And I decided to go down the mountain and I got to this turn and pulled off. And I don't know if it was some sort of wind gust or something but the clouds were finally clearing, like they're moving up the bottom of the mountain and just going up. And I called my friends, like you got to see this, like this is so absolutely amazing. I didn't have FaceTime, like my phone literally had this little 3-megapixel camera. I couldn't even take pictures of it, you know. 

But it was just literally like me by myself with my dog on the edge of this mountain and just all the clouds are just moving up super-fast and it was like warm wind. And I’ve never seen anything like it before in my life and literally I just opened the door to my van and sat there with my dog for like two or three hours just watching this wind just come, like these clouds just move up over these mountains. 

And, yeah, it was just one of those things where if I hadn't decided to go in the van and just kind of hang out and chill, I never would have seen that. Until this day, I haven't seen anything like it to this day.

Omar:

It's funny like, and I think this applies even more to van life but travel as a whole? There's like simple moments like that, right? Like all those serendipitous moments I like to call it, where they're just kind of imprinted in your head and it's not just with another person or your environment, it's like the whole shebang. That exact moment of the perfect sunrise with the temperature and the blades of grass and that small whistle of wind and the colors and the feeling of it and just where you are, what you're doing, all of it comes together in a very serendipitous moment. 

And there's a few of those moments throughout my own travels and I think anyone that's traveled that listen to this podcast as well, I'm sure travels has felt those serendipitous moments. And they're serendipitous for a reason because they're not constantly like that, right? There's always going to be like a handful of them throughout the year, every year. Some more than others, but people are always going to have those moments.

And I think those moments, so serendipitous moments, are really what makes the entire traveling journey worth it, because of course, the grind and sweat and tears and between everything, there's like your van breaking down, there's friendships that you have to leave. Like, your life becomes a revolving door whenever you're traveling. There's all of that. 

But then there's also the few imprinted moments that you will never forget, even when you're really, really old and you just look back at your journey and you think, oh, I remember that one specific moment. And I love that you mentioned that right there for that reason. 

Chris:

Yeah. I think the best way that you say serendipitous, the way that I put it is it takes you off autopilot. It's like when you're living your life, you're going day to day and you're just going through the motions. I don't know if you happen to see the movie but it's called Click, it has Adam Sandler in it. Have you ever seen it?

Omar:

I’ve watched it, yeah.

Chris:

Where he has the remote.

Omar:

With the remote?

Chris:

Yeah, he fast forwards through life. Like I honestly feel like this lifestyle has afforded me many situations where I, you know, you're always pressing fast forward to get to the future to some outcome or something that you're trying to achieve. But that example is something where, you know, I'm just out there exploring and then I just see that and it's like literally you put it on slow motion, like you're living in that moment and you're like actually looking around and realizing that, you know, you're conscious and this is actually happening right now. Like you're literally living in the moment. I know it's a cliche saying, but living this lifestyle consistently puts me in that mindset all the time.

Omar:

100 percent. 100 percent. It really reminds me, and I'm just going to make almost a left field reference here but there's this book by Eckhart Tolle that I read just a few months ago now, maybe about four or five months ago and it's called The Power Of Now. It's all about being present and this is such a famous book, like most people have heard it. And you're shaking your head or something. You've heard it too. 

And that feeling of being present. To me, not just you, for you it's the van life and the school bus life. For me, it's travel as a whole and I think a lot of people, a lot of digital nomads which this podcast is mainly centered around, relate to that feeling, that it takes you off autopilot constantly. And it was just constantly in the present moment and you just feel so incredible all the time. No matter if you're sitting on the side of the road stranded or if you're on the top of the most beautiful mountain. And I think that's the beauty of what people like you and I do. I think that's really the beauty of it.

And I don't want to go too deep into the whole spiritual philosophical side of it because this is what the podcast isn’t about but I'm glad you bring that up. The presence that comes with the kind of lifestyle that you live. 

So, from that initial van then, from after that first build, you realize you were hooked after these few serendipitous moments, after you realize that it didn't take much for you to actually be happy and be present and enjoy what you're doing. So, what did that, I guess, snowball into? What happened after that?

Chris:

Yeah. So, that's when I got a class B camper van. So, for those that are listening, a class B is basically a self-contained van. I got a 1990 dodge Explorer. Had a shower, a bathroom, a proper bed, a cooking area, a fridge, stove, sink. Like it literally, I felt like I was moving in to the Ritz, you know, from that first fan to the first class B. And that was, I named it Zeppelin after Led Zeppelin. I'm a huge Led Zeppelin fan.

And, you know, just the all the rigs now. Like, I just bought my six rig for the videographers and that’s Zeppelin 6. So each rig I get now for the project, they're all Zeppelins, they're all Led Zeppelins, right?

Omar:

Nice. Are you guys traveling in a swarm or something with all your videographers and all that?

Chris:

No. So they're independent contractors, so basically they get a rig and they go where they want to. Like my number two sets videos up for them, we do prospecting through lead gen on all the social platforms with mostly messaging through Instagram. And then she sets up the videographers with tours and then again, they're freelancers so they have other gigs that they're doing too. So depending on where they're going for their other gigs and filming our Tiny Homes, just depends on where they're at.

Omar:

That's cool. So, it's like they get almost a free pass for van life through your rig. That's pretty sweet.

Chris:

Yeah. Well, I mean, the overall why of, you know, a lot of this is convince people to get on the road. You know, Simon Sinek, like what is your why? So, in that first van, and this this is pertinent because we're going to go back to that first rig before we move on to the second one. I was listening to a podcast and I was, you know, I was debating on going back to grad school to be a high school counselor. I was debating on, again, I had no, like start my own business was not part of my mindset. That wasn't even anything I ever considered. 

So, I was trying to figure out what the hell I was going to do because I really had no idea. I knew I love to travel and I knew I wanted to convince people that just because they think they have a path they need to achieve and go down and, you know, what's “successful,” they don't necessarily have to go down that path. They should do what they want to do because when it comes down to it, we don't have that much time to actually achieve what we want to try and achieve. 

So, in that podcast, the presenter basically posed the question of what would you do if you didn't get paid for it? Like what if everything was already taken care of, say you won the lottery and now you're trying to figure out what you want to do. And my why was to convince people to not go down the traditional path, whether it be van life or whatever it is. You know, if you want to do something, then do it.

And my why basically came down to, if I can convince people to be on the road that want to be on the road, then that's going to be my why. So, that's where all these rigs came from. To where they can go on the road, they can work for me, they got a built-in income, they get a rig and then they can go and live their nomadic lifestyle if that's what they want to do. So that's the project. 

Omar:

That’s sweet. And it sounds like a dream job, I'm sure, for a lot of people as well.

Chris:

Yeah, I hope so.

Omar:

That’s sick. I'm sure, I'm going to put, I don’t know if you’re hiring still or not but I'm sure some of my audience will be interested, so I'm going to go ahead and put your links in my show notes to see where they can find you. 

Chris:

Yeah, that’s project Zeppelin Travels. We're hoping to push out too many buses per month.

Omar:

Sick. That's going to be cool. I think I'll keep up with that myself, see where that goes. Let's move forward then. So, you got your second rig, you got your class B. You stayed in that for Halloween. I mean, it was a Ritz of your travel. So how long do you stay in that one for?

Chris:

Yeah. I was living and traveling in that for about two and a half years. One of my dreams is making up to Alaska, so got that thing up to Alaska, did some summers up there. I actually just bought that back so that Mike, one of my videographers, he's flying back up to Alaska this spring to drive that down to lower 48. We're taking it to the shop, we're going to--

Omar:

Nostalgia, huh?

Chris:

Yeah. And they're letting that go, so I sold it to somebody, and he was a tour guide up in Alaska. I was like, dude, if you ever get rid of this thing, I'm the first one you call, all right? So, he called me, bought that thing back, so we're getting that down. So, I was in that for about two and a half years. That thing, when it comes down to it, Zep 1 is my absolute baby. Like I'm going to have that--

Omar:

You sound like Tony Stark here. Zep 1, I love it.

Chris:

Yeah. Good old Zep 1. I was in that for two and a half years and that's when I really cut my teeth. Like that was like the first real full time really traveling around like that. That thing was home. That's when the YouTube started to gain some traction. That's when I started really getting the mindset that I have now in terms of instead of systematizing for these bars that, you know, they want you to work there as long as you can but once you're done, you're done. 

That's when it started and shifted into okay, I can start building these systems and these processes online. Like you can put the time, and again, going back to that 25 cents for the first month, putting in 25 hours but I loved it. Like living in that van, vlogging in that van. It's the first time that I've filmed somebody else's rig and it wasn't for, you know, what it is today of like putting ads on YouTube and working with companies to sponsored posts. It was more of hey, these are the other nomads out there and I want to share their rig so my subscribers, I had like 2000 subscribers. Back in the day, that was a lot on YouTube, right? So, somebody was just getting into blogging, I was like, yeah, man. I'll show your rig and I'll tell my subscribers go over to you. 

What happened was, those videos started getting traction, right? So, started focusing more on that but it started out as just like showing other people's vlogs and what other people were doing out there.

Omar:

So, you'd meet these people like throughout the US, in their own van life and you'd kind of like get along with them, become friends, then you'd start showing their vans and their rigs on your channel?

Chris:

Well, a lot of it actually, people reaching out to me. It’s like, hey, I've been watching your channel, I'd love for you to come check out my rig. I'm like yeah, sure dude. I'll stop by. I was just bouncing around, you know. I was out west and, you know, people were like, hey, I'm up in Washington. If you were to make it through, hit me up. I'd love to show you what I'm building. And just cruise up, check them out, you know, interview them, hang out with them for a couple days and just move on to the next spot.

Omar:

It's funny because like as a van or-- so I'll call you a van lifer at this point instead of a bus lifer, if that's a word, because there was a Class B. So, at that point, you don't really have a set direction or plan where to go, you just knew you wanted to go to places. And in a way, these people reaching out to you kind of gave you like a set plan and a set destination to go to next and in the same way, get to see the place as well. Cool. So, carry on from there. I didn't mean to interrupt.

Chris:

Oh no, no. It's totally fine. So yeah, that's where the channel first started getting any real traction and when I say traction, man, I mean, again, this is early days, like making $200-$300 a month, but it was enough for gas for the month and maybe just a little bit extra food. And again, I never even dreamed of making any real money on YouTube or online. It was just the first seed of actually having the possibility of creating something for myself online that I could put the time and energy into that would then help me travel, you know. So, it’s still more of a passion project, a little extra cash coming in.

Omar:

And that evolved. So now I guess you can fill in the blank between that and where you are now, how did that evolve to where you are now. And now, to be honest, I didn't even know you had a YouTube channel. I just found you through Clubhouse and then I saw your Instagram and I thought you were running a theme page of some kind. I don't even know that was your own footage. So, that's when you know it's good footage when someone thinks it's a theme page because theme pages are usually just cross posts from really, really good pages, right? 

So, kind of yeah, fill in that blank for me from that class B to where you are now.

Chris:

Right. So, with the channel, what essentially happened and I just replicated it, and with Zeppelin Travels which is where we get the videographers in the rig. So, it was the first time that I read Tim Ferriss’s The 4-Hour Workweek, and within that book, there is a couple key things that I picked up on and implemented. Number one, was not allowing myself to be the bottleneck anymore. 

And what was happening was, I was getting so many people reaching out to me to film their Tiny Homes, that I was the bottleneck in editing. And in Tim Ferriss’s 4-Hour Workweek, essentially, the point that I got is if you don't have other people come onto your team and help you if you're the bottleneck, that is just your ego. 

Like, you think these people can't do 100 percent of what you do? But you got to realize that five people do an 80 percent of what you can do is 1,000 percent better than you do than 100 percent of what you think is good. And when it comes down to it, a lot of people that are editors, they can do 120 percent of what you're doing but your ego is not allowing them to come in and help you.

So, I finally got over that and it definitely was my ego. I hired my first editor and then I sort of streamlining it to where I was filming the tours only and he was editing only. 

And the second part of that book was the Pareto 80-20 principle. And what I realized was that 80 percent of the revenue from my first channel was coming from the 20 percent of Tiny Home videos that I was producing. So, what I did was, I actually rebranded my main vlog which is at about 100,000 subscribers and I went totally into Tiny Homes and restarted my personal brand as something new. 

So, I basically brought my true fans over from that 100,000 which was about, you know, three 3,000-4,000 subscribers restarted my personal brand and then rebranded the original channel as Tiny Home Tours, which is the main income right now and just started pumping that out. And since that iteration, just hiring more videographers, hiring more editors, hiring assistants to help me out with everything and then basically having my personal brand that is more catered to my true fans. Those that want to keep up with my travels, they want to see what rig I'm building or what business venture that I'm getting into.

And like I said, Zeppelin Travels is a new iteration of that to where it got about 90,000 subscribers. I rebranded that to Zeppelin Travels which is going to be for the videographers and restarted my personal brand.

Omar:

So, Zeppelin Travels. The name of your personal brand or am I mixing that up?

Chris:

So, Zeppelin Travels is the new iteration where I—like, my personal brand is the Off Grid Skoolie. So, basically, once that channel got to 90,000, and I had all these videographers that were going to vlog for me, I started a new Off Grid Skoolie or The Off Grid Skoolie. That's a whole new channel that has like 3,000 subscribers right now. Zeppelin Travels has 90,000 and then that's where all my videographers’ vlogs are now going to go on and I'm restarting my personal brand as The Off Grid Skoolie.

Omar:

So, this is really, really expanding and it's all centered around YouTube it seems like.

Chris:

It's centered around YouTube, but the secondary channels are, you know, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Like basically all the other social media platforms that we just repurpose the content for. And the thing that really helps with that, like we don't do one off on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok, but what we do is, when we work with bigger brands, we’ll do basically, an ala carte. Like hey, if you give us X amount of dollars, we'll post this on YouTube, we'll rebrand a couple posts on Instagram with swipe up, we'll do Facebook, we'll do TikTok, and they basically have the whole suite of that particular niche that we're targeting, if that makes sense.

Omar:

That does make sense. It does make sense. You're basically doing it, and this is, I am going to reiterate for my listeners here but you're basically doing an ala carte suite of services for social media for other brands that are involved in the nomadic space. Is it right?

Chris:

Exactly. 

Omar:

Right. Makes sense, man. Makes sense. That's a good, that's a good plan. Before we get into what you're actually going to do with the future. I know right now you have your own school bus, is that right?

Chris:

Right. So, I live full time and travel full time in a 2000 Bluebird school bus. Cut it in half, raised the roof, built it out. It's basically my little condo on wheels. There's, I mean, we can go into, you know, the weeds of why I went with the school bus and why I think that's the best platform to build on but basically--

Omar:

Aside from space?

Chris:

What's that?

Omar:

Aside from it being so spacious, I mean, are there other reasons?

Chris:

Yeah. I mean, the main reason I’m with a school bus was actually its weight capacity. Because the way that I live on the road, what I enjoy doing is BLM and public land, so I park out there a lot. So, BLM is Bureau Land Management, Public Land is basically places-- a little bit, typically more western part of the United States where you can park anywhere from 14 days to 30 days for free. 

And the weight capacity is important because my bus has 200 gallons of fresh water, I have tons of solar, tons of food storage. I was able to build the rig with three quarter inch plywood butcherblock countertops. You know, you could actually build great materials because if you don't know what a Class A is, and this is for your audience, like a Class A is those bigger rectangle rigs that, you know, they're pretty pricey but they build them very cheaply.

One, because it's cheap to build them with cheap materials but also the chassis can't necessarily carry weight of good material.

Omar:

What do you mean by rectangular?

Chris:

So, a Class A is one of those big long rectangular--

Omar:

Buses?

Chris:

--art piece.

Omar:

Oh, art piece.

Chris:

Yeah, they're more like the rectangle, so they typically, they don't build them very well, you know. Typically, if somebody buys a new RV, like the typical Class A RV, you know, you pay a premium if you buy a brand new and then they have what's called the break in period where typically you have to take it back to the RV dealership to get a bunch of factory fixes done because at the factory, they build them as quickly as possible and let the service department deal with them afterwards. So, they build them very cheaply. Like I've known people that have waited four months to get factory fixes before they can actually go out and travel in it. 

Whereas with a school bus, you can build it yourself and you can use the high-grade material because it can actually carry the weight. Like, my bus has a 36,000-pound weight capacity. So when it comes down to 200 gallons of fresh water, I didn't have to worry about the weight, when I was able to use three quarter inch plywood for the walls and the cabinets, I didn't have to worry about the weight. Like, you can actually build it well that's actually going to last a longer amount of time.

Omar:

That makes a lot of sense. So, I'm thinking of this question as you're speaking about this, let's say your bus is fully stocked and you're stranded in the middle of nowhere, how long are you going to last?

Chris:

So, the way I have my bus set up, I could probably last three months, easily, without--

Omar:

Man, that’s a while.

Chris:

Yeah. And then with my bus, I tow a car behind it too, so a lot of times, you know, I'll park the bus in one spot, you know, BLM, public land, just park it out there. It's fully self-contained, fully-- all the solar, all the water, all the food. And if I want to go explore, if I want to take my dog to the local dog park, I can just hop in the car, you know, drive to the nearest town, go hang out, go get groceries, just hang out in civilization then come back out to my little oasis out in the desert or the forest or wherever I want to be.

Omar:

Man, that is so much better than anything we ever did. Like, I'm thinking about my van and we'd last for like a week, and we'd have to go-- at most, we're talking at most, I think we had about maybe ten gallons of water in that thing and it goes pretty quick and for food, for washing, all of it. And if we weren't careful, our food would spoil by the end of the week as well. So, a week versus three months, that's definitely a step up. That's super sick to actually listen to that and think, and know that that's actually possible. 

I've been kind of juggling the idea myself to actually do a version of a school bus like around the US, especially while the pandemic is still in full force, and a couple entrepreneurs and I have been having juggling the idea. Right now, one of them is in Mexico but at some point or another, there's going to be like five or six of us just going around the US in a bus. It's an idea in the air. So, for that regard, if you had to give some like quick, I guess we call it bullet point tips, to somebody who's just starting off but wants to build their own rig and travel around for quite a long time in it, what kind of tips would you give?

Chris:

If you have the money, buy somebody else's already converted bus. The thing with school bus conversions, it's going to take about three times as long as you think. It's going to take and it's going to cost at least twice as much. Like, building a rig is no small endeavor. And there is a whole market out there, people that will buy rigs that are half built because people get into it and they don't realize how much money and time they're actually going to be invested in these rigs. 

Like with mine, I just finished it and it took three years. Now, the caveat with that is the first year was just straight work. Like, I had a real estate job where I was working from 5 AM to 10 AM seven days a week, which is what supplemented the income to build the rig and throughout that year, that's where I got it livable. Running water, the fridge is working, I had solar in it, and then a year of just traveling like building the business. 

Like, I didn't care about the aesthetics, it didn't have a ceiling in it, you know, like there was wires hanging down. There are lights up there but it wasn't finished but it was livable and it was all about just building the business. Like, getting out there, filming more Tiny Homes, building the team meeting new people, just out there traveling. 

And then, the third year was kind of a slow process of actually finishing it. Where right now, it's like 99 percent done. Like, there's still some plumbing to do, there's still some small stuff but it was a massive process to build this rig. Like I--

Omar:

You have to send me some pictures of it.

Chris:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a lot of work to build those rigs but, you know, if somebody, if this has piqued somebody's interest and they're thinking about a school bus, I highly suggest buying somebody’s rig that's already converted. And the reason why I say that is typically people that sell the rig, they don't get a premium, and what I mean by that is they don't put their sweat equity into the price. 

They typically try and sell it for what they have invested and just like most-- well, it's kind of like the RV analogy that I had, where there's a break in period. If somebody’s been living and traveling in their bus, like actually bouncing around, they've went through and fix the major issues with the engine and the transmission and the suspension of that bus. So, they typically have it in good running order and then there might be some small interior things you have to do but basically, there's what equity is built into the price and you're just buying what they put into it.

So that's why I suggest people, if they're trying to get into the lifestyle quickly, if they want that commercial platform of a school bus conversion--

Omar:

On top of that, they’re seasonal prices too, right?

Chris:

Right. But with the market now, with the pandemic-- dude, so I bought a minibus that had 50,000 miles on it, a little four-window, I bought it for $4,000 from a dealer. Today, I couldn't get one of those for anything less than $6,500 to $7,000. Like, the market is insane right now.

Omar:

That's crazy. That's nuts. Like in New Zealand, we bought the van for about 3,000, that was on off season. And we sold it on on season nine months later for 5,500, so we actually make money, we made money on the van. But it makes me think, because whenever we sold it, it was December last 2019, and it makes me think if we held on to it for another five months, the value would have been even more just with the pandemic coming around. 

Oddly enough, I'm surprised that it'll cost that much because it was an old piece of- but it was a really fun piece of- that's for sure. So then-- go on.

Chris:

No, I was just going to say like, I follow, like it's on Facebook if you want check it out, I follow a group on Facebook called skoolies for sale. I just saw somebody that did some custom work to a mini school bus, and it's just the exterior like they did some metal work on it and painted it. It’s just a bare shell. They're selling it for $27,000 right now, just a bare shell of a minibus. 

Like, the markets-- I mean, who knows if it's going to sell? I mean, obviously he threw in some wiggle room there to negotiate down, you know, but I mean, if you would have saw that pre-pandemic, you'd be like no way, but now it's kind of like--

Omar:

Maybe

Chris:

Well, I can see somebody, because I mean, when it comes down to it, you can buy a minibus that has the same interior dimensions, are pretty similar to say a ProMaster, which is the Dodge version of a van or the transit which is the Ford. It has about the same dimensions you can get with a mini Skoolie. So, those cost anywhere from $15,000-$20,000 used with about 60,000 miles, or you can get a mini school bus that, you know, if you don't get the roof raiser or any of that custom metal work, you can get that for $7,000. So, a lot of people are actually going for the mini skoolie. They're hard to find anywhere right now.

Omar:

Okay. Cool. So, we know what we're looking for now. Mini school buses.

Chris:

I'll be out there bidding against you if you're looking for one, let me tell you. 

Omar:

Good to hear. So, mini skoolies. We know what we're looking for. How about some basic tips, like bullet point tips for on the road? What kind of things should we watch out for? Is there anything that can make our life easier or our trip better for when we are traveling?

Chris:

It depends on what people are doing, right? Are you referring to those looking for a quick trip or those actually looking to do the full digital nomad lifestyle on the road?

Omar:

Let's say a three-to-six-month trip.

Chris:

A three to six months trip. I would say, number one, there's going to be issues, whether it be mechanical, whether it be trying to find a place to park, and just realizing that the situation that you're in is a situation you're in and getting frustrated, getting down on yourself is not going to help. Like, there's been, the road has definitely taught me patience and the realization that you can't choose what happens but you can choose how you react. So, I definitely suggest that. 

There's a website called campendium.com, it has a massive amount of free camp spots. It basically has all the BLM, all the public land, and it's really cool. And there's other websites, there's freecampsites.net but I use Compendium to where users are able to go in there and leave reviews. They have the cellphone signal coverage, they have the road conditions, they have how long you can stay in that particular area, you know amenities around the area. 

So, honestly, it's just keeping an open mind and realizing that there's tons of free land that you can go out, you know, to the middle of nowhere, have perfect cell service, get your work done on your computer and enjoy the local area. So that's campendium.com.

Omar:

Nice. Keep that one in mind, Campedium-- Campedium?

Chris:

Campendium.

Omar:

Campendium.com, right.

Chris:

Spell it out on Google, it’ll pop up.

Omar:

Cool. What was your favorite place that you saw all throughout the US in your van?

Chris:

Alaska. There's--

Omar:

By far?

Chris:

There's nothing like Alaska, man.

Omar:

I can imagine. I've never been myself but I'm guessing it'd be really majestic. 

Chris:

Yeah. I mean there are so many spots where you can just pull over on the park or pull over and park on the side of the road. It's absolutely free. And you wake up, it’s like a postcard like all over that place. And fishing up there is amazing, the trails are amazing, hiking, like, the food, the people. I've never been to a place like Alaska.

Omar:

Really, really makes me think of that movie Into The Wild, where the guy lives in the van for like six months and then freezes to death. I just got that image in my head but I mean, it was a really, really great movie and I can imagine just from watching. And I guess that's the only images that I have in my head of ever, of Alaska, period, to be honest. I haven't really done much research but I keep hearing about it all the time. Go to Alaska, go to Alaska. So yeah, now I definitely have to check it out.

Chris:

The thing is, I'll give you a perfect example because when I first went up there, like it was just one of those things that I always wanted to do, and I haven't even read or heard of Into The Wild ‘til I got to Alaska, you know, so keep this in mind. But I just had Alaska as like I would go to the bar and there'd be this gruff old guy that didn't want to talk to me, like everybody's just kind of reclusive and didn't like outsiders. 

But the first time I went fishing up there, I had no idea what I was doing. I caught my first salmon and there was somebody next to me that helped me tension my line correctly. The other person on the other side of me have the net, somebody else came over with the club to get the fish and they all clapped for me because I got my first salmon.

Omar:

That's sick. 

Chris:

But the thing is, that's just an example of how it is up there, period. Like everybody that's up there wants to be up there. Everybody's super friendly, everybody, you know, invites people and like, it’s just, I can't explain it. I guess I would, you know, equate it, I hear the same thing about New Zealand where everybody's really friendly, everybody's kind of glad that you're there and everybody, you know, helps you out. 

Omar:

Very hospitable, very homey. 

Chris:

Exactly, exactly. 

Omar:

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about and it's definitely like that in New Zealand as well. Some of the most hospitable people I've met. And it's comparatively, right? Because like Alaska is part of the US and most of the US isn’t like that, period. Whereas, when you go to New Zealand, all of New Zealand's like that. But here, like that juxtaposition of having Alaska right next to like a big city like Seattle or, you know, some close, big metropolis city where everyone's just on the hustle bustle, really looking down, not really paying attention to anybody, that warmth isn't there. I can imagine how Alaska would be on the flip side of that. So that's nice.

Chris:

Yeah. Yeah, it's a great time up there. I mean, even driving because I drove through BC in the Yukon Territory each year and you know, it was always interesting. When I first drove into BC, because Canadians are super nice, and you know, you're filling up gas, you ask people how they're doing, they're like actually excited to talk to you like, hey, yeah, how's your trip? Where are you going? And I can always tell when I first get into BC and Alaska, just the different mindset. 

When I get back down to the lower 48, like I get back into Washington or Idaho, you know, I’d be in the gas pump where I’m like, hey, how's your day going? People are like, why are you asking me how my day is going? You know, I just--

Omar:

It's funny that transition, isn't it? I think that's the reason I miss travel personally so much right now because I live in Houston or I'm back in Houston currently, where it's just literally a big giant metropolis, and it has its own charm to it. I mean, every place does really when you think about it, but the wild’s calling me, I think, that's really what it is. Just the mountains and the beaches and all of it. So yeah, I’m definitely missing all that.

Chris:

Make it up to it, bud.

Omar:

Yeah. Before I get too sentimental here, let's wrap this podcast up with one final question, and I like to ask every single one of my guests this question. And you being, I guess, a nature man living in a van, or a bus, a “skoolie,” I'm interested to see what your answer for this is going to be. So, if you had a billboard in space and everyone from Planet Earth could see that billboard on a daily basis, right, they could just look up in the sky and they could see that message, what would you write on that billboard?

Chris:

That's a iteration of old Tim Ferris’s question.

Omar:

Definitely, yup. That’s it. You know it. You're the first person that's pointed that out since I started doing it.

Chris:

I would put 27,000 days.

Omar:

27,000 days. What does that mean?

Chris:

The average person lives to be about 72, that's about 27,000 days. Everybody thinks they have all this time to live. Like, if you go up to-- you should try this tonight or try it with one of your friends. Ask him how many days do you think you're going to live on average, you'll get anywhere from like 100,000 to 200,000 days, I've even heard like a million. But if you really realize that you only have 27,000 days and every single day is counting off those 27,000 days, it just rearranges your perspective on how much time you have left to do the things you want to do. 

So, if you really look at it, from 0 to 18, you becoming yourself, you're in high school, you're doing all that garbage. You're in an ecosystem, it's not real life. That's about 6,000 days, so you're down to about 21,000. And, you know, your golden years, 65 to 70, if you're able to be mobile, if you're lucky enough to be healthy, that's an extra 4,000 or 5,000 days. So, when it comes down to it, you only have about 18,000 days to really do what you want to do. And I think a reminder for people to remember that would be very helpful.

Omar:

It's funny, you and I think quite similar. I made a TikTok about that a few months ago that it brought back to me where I literally on the whiteboard behind me, did a little drawing saying this is how many days an average girl, an average guy lives. Subtract that from how many days you have left, this is how many days I have left and I circled it. I remember that and I made a TikTok about it that reminded me of it, man. 

Great point. Great quote. I love that. I hope Elon Musk makes that happen someday but ‘til then, it was an absolute pleasure having you on, Chris. Thank you for coming on today.

Chris:

Yeah, thanks for having me, bud. Appreciate it.

Outro-

I don’t know about you but I am absolutely itching to start traveling again. I hope this episode revitalized some sort of adventurous spirit within you. Remember, life is short and if anything, this pandemic has definitely highlighted that. Travel when you can. Adventure when you can. And live life the way you want to.

Thanks for tuning in to the Nomadic Executive. If you enjoyed this episode, take a moment to leave a rating or review. Your feedback helps us reach others who need a spark of inspiration. See you next time.