Starting and Scaling an Online Service Based Business With Aaron Pearson | TNE060

Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, even TikTok. Everyone has an account on one, two, or all of them. Social media is everywhere nowadays, but not many know the earning potential it can bring. Luckily, our guest for this week will tell us all about it!

Today on The Nomadic Executive, we have Aaron Pearson, co-founder and managing director of BitBranding. Aaron and his partner, Christian, have been in the digital marketing business since 2015. From designing websites and social media marketing to a big-time digital marketing agency, learn how you too can start your journey to financial freedom and success. 

Show Notes:

[0:52] What kind of company is BitBranding, and what do you do for clients?

[6:10] How did it all start? What was your origin story?

[13:05] After five years of business, how much is the agency earning now?

[16:20] Let’s talk about outreach, service delivery, and client retention, shall we?

[30:24] What are some lessons you have learned through your journey that we should all know?

[42:22] If you have a billboard in space, what would you write on it?

Aaron Pearson's link:
www.bitbranding.co

Omar's (Host) Social Media:

Instagram - @nomadables

TikTok - @nomadables

Facebook Group - NOMADABLES - Accountability & Growth Community for Remote Workers- Perfect to meet fellow online entrepreneurs, remote workers, and digital nomads.

YouTube - Omar Mo

LinkedIn - Omar Mo Nomads Cast

Twitter - @nomadables

Pintrest - @nomadables

Clubhouse - @pods

WEBSITE: https://www.nomadables.com/

Transcript

Intro 

What does it take to have a successful online business? Do you ever ask yourself that question? Let me debunk a common myth for you right now. You do not need a following or even a social presence to have a multimillion-dollar online business. For every successful influencer you see out there, there's at least one successful person in the digital space without any sort of online presence. 

Today, we'll be discussing one of those business models that can help you make money online without a social media presence. I sit down with Aaron Pearson, co-founder of BitBranding. BitBranding is a marketing and design agency that helps e-comm stores scale to six and seven figures. And they did over half a million dollars in revenue last year, and continue scaling after only being in the business for about five years. 

Join me while we learn what it takes to really start a business like this, and it's not as hard as you think. Remember, Nomad Fam. We've got some incredibly value-filled episodes planned out for you. So please hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Your review helps this podcast become more visible and ultimately inspire more people just like you. My name’s Omar Mo and this is The Nomadic Executive.

You're listening to The Nomadic Executive hosted by Omar from Nomadables.com. Join Omar as he sits down and speaks with leading online entrepreneurs, remote workers, and digital nomads about everything, from business strategy to travel and lifestyle design. Together, we're here to help you achieve a life of happiness, health, and freedom. And now, here's your host, Omar Mo.

Omar  

All right, Aaron from BitBranding. Welcome to The Nomadic Executive, man. I appreciate you coming on today.

Aaron

Absolutely! I am super excited. I think this is gonna be a lot of fun. This is probably one of my first podcasts of 2021. So, excited.

Omar  

Boom, there you go. I'm honored to have you on then. First of all, before we even get started, congratulations on five years at BitBranding. How does that feel?

Aaron  

Thank you! It feels great. And I didn't even know I planned it this way. Cause I think I scheduled on your link but didn't even plan then. That makes sense that I was like, oh, yeah, today we're turning five years old. We got a smash cake come in later, like an adult smash cake. We're gonna beat the heck out of. So that should be fun. But thank you.

Omar  

That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Congratulations. Before we even continue there, tell me or tell my audience a little bit about what BitBranding is and what your role is in that.

Aaron  

Yeah. So we are a creative agency. But basically, actually, in the last six to nine months, we've made a shift, and our website doesn't necessarily reflect that yet. We've been doing a lot of messaging, changing, and switching up. We used to offer all the cart-type services and do everything from your website to your social media marketing, and video production. Everything. But what we've done now is start to make packages. So now we just have four services or four products. And we have brander evolutions, which most people know them as, like a brand identity or a logo design. We have our website overhaul, which is a website redesign or a new website design. We have our leads accelerator, which is a program for local businesses to generate more leads online through Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube advertising. And then we have our sales accelerator, which is what we're going all-in on 2021. And that is really something we're super passionate about. We are using that to help people who are selling online, find their deeper purpose. And help them achieve their deeper purpose that by them selling more products online. So we work with, like a journal company. And for every journal that they sell, they donate, or they give away a Bible to a foreign country. And then we also have another client who's a clothing company who for, you know, X amount of sales that they have things like close to five to ten percent. They all go towards families who are trying to adopt orphans. So we're really passionate about helping those people. And that sales accelerator program is for that online store owner to sell more of their products online. So think about Shopify. And then like online advertising through that. So Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Email marketing, all for that online store owner.

Omar  

Oh, so you're literally taking care of all fronts for that. That includes all, like, the upsells, the downsells, the timers, the email marketing, the full package for people that are selling e-comm items online.

Aaron  

Yeah, so we used to, we thought we're just going to silo ourselves and just do Facebook and Instagram advertising. But what we realize is that these people are super busy, we need to collaborate with them, but they need a full solution. So we also help them to optimize their site. So if their conversion rates at like one or two, how can we get it to a three or four, double sales easily like that? Facebook and Instagram advertising to drive traffic, email marketing to nurture those people as we're going to find out very, you know, soon in 2021, it's going to cost more money to reach people. So we've got to nurture them. And then the last thing is live selling, so QVC style selling and live selling of the product. So we're kind of on all fronts.

Omar  

What do you mean by live selling? I don't think I've heard of that before.

Aaron  

Yeah, so there's a couple of tools out there. There's one called Comment Sold, and one it's Buy It Live, so it's like alright, me and Omar, we're, you know, we're about to sell this water bottle I got here and we're gonna go live. And all you have to do is say comment, you know, I'm gonna tell you this is product number one, if you want it in blue, comment below when they comment. They automatically get a Facebook message that says: Cool! You just purchased this. Here's a receipt and you got this one in blue. Just let me know what's.

Omar

Right.

Aaron

Yes.

Omar  

What is this? Like, new tech?

Aaron  

Yeah, it's new-ish tech, I would say it's within the last year or two. It's definitely brand new. I think, like I said, it's think QVC but following your favorite influencers on Facebook, and then selling your products, and you're speaking directly to them, and you just literally comment on Facebook and purchase.

Omar  

That's crazy. I didn't know that was possible. That's actually amazing. I think that's a really, really fantastic idea, especially for people that have a gregarious, like, almost extroverted personality that are able to just sell themselves online. 

Aaron

Yeah.

Omar

I think it'll work fantastically if they combine that with clubhouse, as well.

Aaron  

Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say and that's how we met which is ironic, like, clubhouse is just an amazing connection tool you just get to meet. I've I joined a couple of like online clothing boutiques and like clubhouses there and just like people going through those struggles so, like, for you and I, we could find out a lot about our best clients telling us exactly what their problems are, like, hey, we provide this exact solution. So yeah, absolutely. Clubhouse is so cool.

Omar  

I think it's such a good lead generation tool. If you take aside the whole everything else that's great about it right? The networking, the meeting people, the relationship building, at scale, I think one of the best things is that you can just start a room about whatever industry you're in and have people join that room, look at you as an authority figure, and essentially convert them into clients. Right. So yesterday, while I was in a room, I was hosting a podcasting room and I literally had someone in that room, without me saying anything to that person at all, go to my website, and book a meeting for today.

Aaron  

That's awesome.

Omar  

Yeah. And that's happened twice now, which is amazing. You know. So it shows you that it's just an automatic lead generation tool. If you know what you're talking about, you know, you can help people out, you know. So moving forward, then you offer all these services. You're doing all these four different packages here. Why don't you start us back like five years ago, to the beginning of BitBranding, like, how did that all get started?

Aaron  

Yeah, so it initially started because I was working corporately, I didn't like the corporate life, went to work at a small business, didn't like the way that they ran it, and wanted to make an extra $1,000 a month. My whole goal from any of this was back in 2014. I just wanted to become debt-free, just get my student loans and get all that stuff paid for. So I took a course by Ramit Sethi, if you're familiar with him, just a huge personal finance guy. Took that course made an extra $1,000 a month, I thought I wanted to teach running. There wasn't as many people that wanted to know about running that I could.  

Omar

Running?

Aaron

Yeah.

Omar

Like jogging?

Aaron

Yeah. Like, literally like, coaching and running. So I run competitively, and I ran in college and stuff. And so I thought I was gonna go that route, but I just moved to Dallas. And so I knew nobody. And I didn't know anything about how to market myself online. So like, okay, well, let me try this social media stuff. And I started posting on people's behalf, didn't know anything at the time, and really did a lot of amateur mistakes. But I was probably a good salesperson and told people that hey, look, this is I'm gonna help you do, got some results, and then some of my clients, I actually started to get referrals. I was like, wow, this is great. Like, people refer to me I'm growing. But then they want to design. 

Omar  

Let’s go back a little bit that first, that first service that you did for somebody, what was it?

Aaron  

Social media management. I posted on Facebook, Instagram. No, not even Instagram, Facebook. Yeah, Instagram and Twitter.

Omar  

And how did you get that person?

Aaron  

I cold emailed them because they had, so that I couldn't find runners, but she had a travel company based off of adventure. So like, if you wanted to go, like, skiing in the Alps or something like that, she had that company. I was like, it would be cool to do social media for them. She's in Dallas, I cold emailed her and said: Hey, I think I can help you like, you know, let's meet up for coffee. And she did. She met me at a Starbucks. And we talked and she's like, okay, present me a plan. And, you know, let me know, pricing. And we met back the next week. And she was good with it. And I started doing work for her.

Omar  

You started locally, and you started with a cold email. 

Aaron

Yep. 

Omar

I love that you said cold email because I tell everybody that cold email is not dead, it's only growing. And it's getting better and better. And if you're going to do any sort of outreach in the beginning, cold email is the way to go.

Aaron  

For sure.

Omar  

So carry on.

Aaron  

So, but anyway, they wanted, the clients wanted more. So I started working with several types of businesses, and they wanted more than what I could offer. So I'm not a designer, but my best friend, as of the time for five years, was a designer he'd been designing for, like, probably ten years. And I was like: Hey, you know, can you help me with these websites? And it was actually February 7 of 2015. I know this because it was his birthday. I went up to Oklahoma, his name's Christian, went up to him. And I was like: Hey, I think we should start a business. I think you could help with the design, I could help with social media, you know, maybe we do something, we’re young. We were 24 at the time. And I was like: You know, maybe we could turn this into something like, I'm getting paid, I'm getting referrals. Like, I think if you help with the websites, like, we can make this work. And so we thought about it created a business plan. And I would say kind of the rest is history. We took on a couple of bigger clients and bigger websites, and we closed the most amount of money we ever did in one day. I think it was like maybe $4,000 or $5,000 for a couple of websites. And we're like, okay, this is great. And then by that summer, like June, July timeframe, we're like, we're working a ton. We're meeting on FaceTime on each of our iPads and spending a ton of time. Do you remember Blab? 

Omar

Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. So we're like on Blab in the evenings trying to connect with people. It's kind of like the video of like, clubhouse right. So we're doing that we're like, we're working a ton. I'm working a 40-hour week job, I'm training for a marathon. And, you know, I'm about to, I just got engaged. And we were like, what are we gonna do with this? We got to make a decision. So by June, July timeframe, we landed our biggest deal and another client to kind of secure us and we're like, okay, let's do this make the jump. And so October of that year, 2015, we both quit our jobs. And mine October, or sorry, September, September 3, and September 10. I remember it pretty vividly on a Monday and then a Friday, or Friday and a Monday. But then, from that point.

Omar  

I think this is important before we continue on. So yeah, the point where you quit your job to the first day when you first started this entire thing in the first place from that first service. What was that? How long was that time period?

Aaron  

So when we quit our job, maybe nine or ten months, maybe.

Omar  

Ten months of working on a side hustle, grinding your way through, and then finally quitting your job? That must have been a fantastic feeling.

Aaron  

Oh, it is still unbelievable today of how big of a jump it was. Because I think, you know, I don't care sharing numbers or not. But I think in our bank account, we had maybe between the two of us, we had personal amount but, say, in the business bank account, we maybe had like $3,000. So I mean, depending on who's listening to this or not, they may be like, hey, that's a good chunk of money. Or they may be like, holy cow, that would scare the heck out of me. But yeah, it was, it was definitely exciting. I feel like we felt like the move was, as it was a calculated risk. And it was the right move for us because it just felt good.

Omar  

You had, you had a couple clients at that point. Is that right?

Aaron  

Yeah, we did. We had a couple of recurring clients. Christian was also still living in Oklahoma, where he had low expenses, I had low expenses, we had probably three or four months of runway for each of us. And we said, let's give it six months. Let's go all-in on this. And we did well. And then he actually came down a few times, we got another couple websites, we're like, sweet, this is awesome. And January of 2016, he moved here and we're like, okay, let's do this. Actually, just step back for a second November, we finally came up with the company name. We still didn't have our own website, January 2016. Christian moves to Texas. So we're at least in the same area. And we both are moving into my in-laws or future in-laws. And we're working out of a space. It's like eight-foot by ten-foot trying to make this work. And then yeah, then today, February 2, we finally incorporated five years ago and said, okay, we're going to, we're going to do this, we're going to make this happen. This is legitimate at this point. And then was it two months later, we finally launched our website.

Omar  

That, that's a hell of a timeline right there.

Aaron  

It’s crazy.

Omar  

So now, it's been five years of doing all this right, you slowly built it up. What has your revenue grown? Like,  first of all?

Aaron  

Yeah, so our first year, first full year 2016. We did about 80,000. So we didn't have anything to base it off of didn't know anything about it. 2017 revenue grew quite a bit, we hit about 250,000. 2018, we grew a little bit more, we're about 300-ish thousand. And then 19, we shot up a lot more. We're about that. 400,000. So we've been growing pretty significantly. Was that it was a 19. And then was that 18 or 19? 

Omar

Yeah, that was 19. 

Aaron

And then so 2020, we hit a little over 500. We had, we had goals of hitting much higher than that we had, finally, put systems in place, finally, got everything, like rocking and rolling. And we still grew. But I think we're close to that. Yeah, a little over 500,000. I think I looked yesterday, it was like maybe 520 or 540 or something. But this year, you know, it's a crazy trajectory. Because we have all of our systems in place. We have a good-sized team, we're debt-free, we have cash in the bank. So we're looking to do at least one and a half this year.

Omar  

That's a big jump.

Aaron  

Yes.

Omar  

That's a massive jump.

Aaron  

It is, um, we probably would have done that in 2020 too. The world kind of went a different way. And we were in the middle of pivoting in March, and it kind of forced our hand so we lost about three or four months. You know, we learned for three or four months, I don't think we lost it, we learned for three or four months. And I think it positioned us really well. For me to groom my, groom our team, to be written a really good position right now. So we're doing really well in January and February so far. And so this year, definitely we're gonna see kind of quantum growth. But it's not like it was, you know, out of the blue. We definitely like we, we have business coaches, we have the right systems, we hired the right consultants, we have the really good size team, we're probably... 

Omar

How many, how many people? 

Aaron

There's five of us full-time, and five who are part-time. So we have a pretty good-sized group of people for the size of business. And we can all grow within that too. So, but yeah, it's a, it's definitely been a journey.

Omar  

I bet it has been, I love covering all the different aspects of agency life as well, man. So like, we'll probably in a minute here go from like, what kind of bottlenecks were you removing from year to year? Or we continue there, a lot of my audience that listens to this podcast are on that beginner to intermediate level, skewing more towards beginner, right? So when they're first starting off an agency or any sort of online business, let's say e-comm, service space business, there's always got to be a couple of different aspects you've got to take care of right? There's got to be the lead gen, there's got to be the actual service delivery, there's got to be that retention, all those different aspects. Just going down that pipeline, I guess, for someone that's just starting off, what would you suggest is one of the best methods for someone doing outreach, if you're just starting off?

Aaron  

Yeah, find the platform that you are comfortable with, whether it's email, could be clubhouse, whatever, and just get known for one thing and dominate it, we, I think we would have grown 10 times faster if we didn't try to do everything at once. And even now, you hear that we're doing a lot of services, we cut those down, we were doing like everything, we cut them down to four, and eventually, we're going to come down even more. So my best piece of advice is just to absolutely dominate one area and be known for one thing only. And honestly, the naming of that thing that you mentioned, is even more important than probably like your messaging. So getting your messaging done on that platform is probably even more important than the actual outreach that you do. Because the last thing we want to do is be like, hey, that's, you know, Aaron over there. And he got to start with Facebook ads. So he's just another Facebook ads guy, I don't want to be that guy. I want to be the person that like, oh, they have the leads accelerator program, or they have a sales accelerator program. They do this. That's the sales, sales accelerator program guy. So the messaging for that platform is the right, is I think the biggest move.

Omar  

So like the branding play. 

Aaron  

For sure. Right over everything.

Omar  

That makes sense, that totally, that totally registers when you say that because you don't want to just be known as someone who's doing just one single service for that person. And then not be able to differentiate yourself from all the other millions of Facebook ads guys out there, the millions of YouTuber, YouTube ads people out there, but rather an entire program that kind of centers around Facebook ads, but maybe you're building funnels for them, maybe you're doing all these different smaller things that kind of feed into the Facebook ad plays well. And once you get that entire mess that can differentiate you because no one, no one single company is going to have the exact same program or exact same approach or method as another agency.

Aaron  

That's correct. Yeah.

Omar  

And it all depends on results as well. So that's what it really what it comes down to. So we got the outreach down. What about service delivery? What kind of bottlenecks have you seen yourself removing from that service delivery process? What kind of tips can you give for systems or anything in place that you would suggest that people should keep beforehand, before they deliver their first service?

Aaron  

Yeah, so your results are important. But honestly, if you get them a little bit of results, if they have a good experience, they're going to stay longer. So think about that, as you're trying to work with clients and make your experience something they're going to talk about, like: Hey, they had great results. They helped me grow my company, but it was just good. I like working with them. So our onboarding was something that I think was a big bottleneck, we just thought it was like: Hey, send a proposal. And we'll just start work. But we created content through the proposal. And it all started with the proposal where we created a video, we condensed our proposal down dramatically. And I think that's where it starts the, the delivery working with the client starts with the onboarding or starts with the proposal. So we did a video explaining exactly what they're going to get. And then we condensed it in half with all that jargon. And then the onboarding email is literally just explaining to them the expectations of working together, our collaboration and why it's important, and then walking through step by step so that they know that this isn't just something that, you know, we just happened to think about on a Tuesday. It was literally; this is proven, and adds credibility, and you can charge for that. So I think that even if you just get your proposal down and you get that onboarding email and you line up, what you're going to deliver to them. If you do that part of it, you're 90% better than I think the rest of everybody else.

Omar  

The onboarding email. I see what you're saying by building this entire experience for the customer from the beginning to the end, kind almost like holding their hand through that initial. Is there any specific things that you found, kind of help nurture that trust a little bit more in the beginning? Because there are a few different. So like, I'm in a mastermind myself right now, right? And there's a couple different agencies in that mastermind beginner, more on the beginner side of things that keep finding this bottleneck, where they'll send a proposal out. And with the video as well explaining the entire proposal, then they'll have the client drop off before actually signing that proposal or doing anything. Between that spot right there. And I tried explaining it to them, like, I tried telling them: hey, so what you want to basically do is just be a little bit more thorough, maybe even have it on your website, where you have a full on video, step by step onboarding process or something like that. But is there something that you can recommend from your side that they can help close that gap? And maybe retain them for a bit, bit longer?

Aaron  

Yeah. So and you mean, like, money, like keeping them on as a client? Or having them actually close the deal? 

Omar

Having them actually close the deal.

Aaron

Yeah, so the deal should already be closed before they get the proposal. That proposal is just reaffirming what you guys talked about. So the deals actually closed beforehand. I always tell people, the proposal is just a technicality and for you to have for your records. But I always ask them, are you ready to move forward? We do a strategy consultative close. And then if they're not ready to make a decision, like today, I always ask them a question one to ten. So one being you feel super confident, you don't feel super confident that we could help you, and ten being super confident. If they're an eight or above, I always ask them. So now on a one to ten scale, how confident do you feel like you could execute what we're talking about here? And if they're in a five or below, and I say, then we just go into that: hey, look, at this point, I think it only makes sense for us to be able to work together. But so that's, that's kind of a question to ask ahead of time.

Omar  

Nice little sales tactic right there. I like that.

Aaron  

And then the second part of it is that if they're not ready to make a decision, I'm like, okay, I always kind of position them as like, you know, there's a couple of things that I've learned as business owners is that, you know, the benefit for me is that I also in the business and talk to people is that they make quick decisions, and they have super, and they're super clear on their goals and what they want, and they know how to get there. So I kind of put them in a position for them. And so they almost feel obligated to say, you know, I do know my business, I am clear on my goals. And so I just asked them, well, if you aren't, if you aren't able to make a decision today, when do you think you'll make one and they say: Well, probably, you know, the next day or two, I'm like, okay, cool. So let's schedule a call for this particular time whether on the phone, get on a call, and then at that point, they give me the Okay, or they don't, nine times out of ten, they do give the Okay otherwise, they say may not be a good fit. They gave me the Okay, I'm like, Okay, awesome. I'm going to send you over this proposal, or you may already have it, all you need to do is very quickly and easily click electronically. And this is going to walk you through it step by step. But to answer your question, they've already been closed, and I've already committed, they've already committed verbally to me to say that they're going to close that deal. So I'm going to get it it's just a technicality for them to sign it.

Omar  

I get it, you make the entire process a lot less overwhelming for them. And I think that especially applies if you're, if you're doing this for a medium to small business, bigger businesses, they're a lot more logical I found so they, they just want to see the proposal sheet right in front of them and go, okay, this, this, this, and this. But smaller businesses definitely are looking more for that experience and less work on their plate and less overwhelmed and more, more streamlined, more like, okay, I can trust this guy, and I'm happy with what they're doing.

Aaron  

Yep. Absolutely.

Omar  

That's good. So we got the, got the initial outreach, we got the service delivery. Now let's go to a final step there, retention. What do you do on your end to, kind of, keep the customer happy, and what have you noticed helps increase the LTV, the longevity of having these customers around?

Aaron  

So yeah, the, the results are kind of it's a given. So I don't think we talked about that. I mean, you got to be able to deliver on results for them, because that's just anybody, but it's the actual relationship and letting them know that you care. So we also not only just send them something for their birthday, just letting them know. We actually have a card that our team we all sign. It's a picture and just wishes them happy birthday. It's on-brand and just you know, letting them know we're thinking of them. Their anniversary for working with us. We send them something. We try to get to know them personally. So if they have if they're pregnant, or if they're having, you know, a kid, or if it's an anniversary or something, we're trying to collaborate with them and say, and try to offer something like: Hey, here's 25 bucks, like, you know, hopefully, you and your wife or you and your husband can go enjoy this. So that's part of it. The other part is that we are, we have a project manager, case manager dedicated to communication. So not only we try not to text, honestly, we try to keep everything via email. But we communicate at least, at least two to three times per week, about the status of their marketing. And if they are a website project, we only communicate once a week, but we have a step-by-step of exactly where you're at in the process. But our retainer clients yet we're giving a monthly video report, the guys are doing it now. It's it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of effort, we don't just send an actual report that says: here's all these numbers, but we do a video and walk them through so they know exactly what they're getting versus: Hey, your analytics said that you were up ten percent. Well, what is the, what do these numbers mean? And then like I said, we're just constantly communicating with them. So I was top of mine and letting them know. So if something, something happens iOS 14, for example, we're telling them we're giving them updates on things and just communicating. So constant communication, making them feel special, giving them results,

Omar  

there's always that, so you have a dedicated communication person, right? In that beginning point, though, whenever you were first starting off your agency and getting to an intermediate level as well, I'm guessing you were the comms guy.

Aaron  

Is that right? Oh, yes, I was the, the, the marketing guy, the sales guy, the communication project manager, for sure.

Omar  

Balanced a lot, because that's always a struggle for a lot of startups.

Aaron  

So I think with a startup, you always, you're better off having a business partner, I mean, it's just your chances of success are much better. And you should always have somebody who's a right brain and left brain, I happen to be the brain side that was focused on a high D. So I like to get things done, I like to make sure that things are moving forward. So it was just in my nature to say: hey, look, it's my responsibility to make sure that the company grows, it's my responsibility to make sure that the that, the customer is happy. And so we really didn't have much of a system other than a whiteboard on the wall that said, this is where there's clients that there's not a ton of clients at the time. I mean, maybe we had five or six clients. And then we had maybe three or four projects or something going on. So I was able to keep up with it that way, but I was just constantly trying to communicate, it also meant that I was running at five in the morning, and then back in front of my computer by seven to communicate with them and communicate all day. And then I would take a break at four or five to eat dinner with my wife. And then probably an hour later I'd be back on my computer till about ten and I did that for three or four years.

Omar  

So you weren’t getting much with sleep, huh?

Aaron  

No, I got great sleep. I could, I'm actually those people who can just turn it off. Because I know that hey, it'll be there tomorrow. 

Omar

Oh, you're lucky. 

Aaron

Yeah, I am. I kind of went through a spat with my wife this summer. And she's finally sleeping a lot better. But yeah, no get, no sleep is. that's a, that’s a tough topic right there.

Omar  

That is the toughest, man. I'm telling you. That's something I struggle with for sure. Without a doubt, just the lack of sleep. But I'm something I'm working on for sure. And I've been talking to different people about it, melatonin and all this jazz. But I think I once you go down that road, especially when you're starting a business, you start to realize just how important it is for a nightly routine and to be able to turn off when you turn off and then turn back on again, because it's not well-rested, and you're not going to get anywhere.

Aaron  

Yep, it's spinning in circles, that's for sure.

Omar  

And it's cool that you do, you make time for all these different activities that you love as well, right? So balance is key. I think that's a big lesson there. You're running in the morning, and then you're still doing your work. Whereas a lot of people in their startup phases kind of sacrifice everything else. So just go all in. And I know for sure, especially me, I am slowly starting to bounce, balance that back a little bit more. But in my startup phases early last year. I was definitely sacrificing everything and just had this obsessive, all-in, kind of, just go all-in focus and work from morning, the moment that I wake up all the way till I fall asleep every single day. You know?

Aaron  

Yeah. It’s hard. It's addictive, right?

Omar  

It is and especially if you love what you're doing, you know? Yeah, but there's always that balance that needs to be put in there. And really, what's the point of you starting a business if you're not going to be happy? You know, the strange thing was as obsessive as I was, I was freaking stoked the entire way through. You know, I was happy the entire time. But not a lot of people will be, especially when they're starting off their startup. So that, that's, that's a conversation for another day though. Cool, man. I mean, I think you've given us some pretty solid, valuable advice over here. I want to close off with a couple like, you know, random pop-off questions, some bullet point things. 

Aaron

Yeah.

Omar

Let's start off with this one. So in your five years journey of doing what you're doing, what are some key lessons? I guess you can keep it at three? What are some key lessons that you kinda would like to portray to any of my audience that are maybe just starting off? Or are at the intermediate levels?

Aaron  

Yeah. So I think number one is, this is just a human. Part two is, don't worry about something like, that's gonna potentially happen. That just makes you anxious and you make bad business decisions. I would also say, Don't trust your gut on that part of it too. Your gut isn't a good business metric. It's a good judge of character, typically, but it's not a good judge of business metric. Second thing is to make sure you have systems in place. Because without systems, you will just continue to be in that lower-end agency life, you're just going to be grinding it out. And without systems, you never realized your worth and what you could actually charge. And that's huge. And then thirdly, make sure you hire the right people. And when you do hire them, we have five full-time and five part-time, eventually, I want to get them all to full-time too. Hire somebody full-time, all the way dedicated into the business and hire the right people. So that's, that's definitely like you do those three things correctly, even if the two of them correctly and have a positive outlook on it, I think you'll be very successful agency. 

Omar  

Nice. I really, really like those points. And I one hundred percent agree with them as well. Let me dive in there a little bit deeper on one of them. 

Aaron

Yeah. 

Omar IG Content 1

So at that point, where you’re actually hiring and outsourcing people, what's the point where you decided to start hiring people? I know that you had your own partner as well. So maybe that phase was a little bit later for you, as opposed to earlier.

Aaron  

Once you can afford or once you're, once it's scary enough to where if you have to, to make that decision. So like, let's just say, you know, you're able to do it, but you're working 12 hour days, and you've been doing it for six or 12 months, the very next logical step for you to do is hire a virtual assistant, get yourself a virtual assistant. And then let them take some of your stuff off your plate. And then once you can afford somebody or either offer them something of the company, once you get to that revenue goal or margins, then I would hire, I would hire, I would hire six months before you think that you need to or you feel comfortable doing so.

Omar  

I see and what are your thoughts on remote teams versus in-person or in-house?

Aaron  

So we have a couple people in the Philippines and then the rest of them are in like Washington or Wisconsin and then the rest of the guys are here in Texas. As long as you have a system, and you have a way to communicate, we use ClickUp. I highly recommend ClickUp. Then it's completely fine. Like they, it's good to work both ways. But I think the problem that people run into is that they don't have the systems in place. They just hire somebody and they think that they're just going to magically change the world. But it's like trying to pit you know, put somebody into an environment they don't understand and then asking them why they can't perform. So if you have the right systems in place, and you're working with those people, it doesn't matter if the remote, doesn't matter if they're in person, you still got to find a way to treat them and do experiences to build that relationship outside of, you know, if you're doing an in-person.

Omar

The culture.

Aaron

Yeah, exactly building that culture. And I think that plays a part to it. But you know, really, I don't think it matters that they're remote or if they're in person, I used to have a hard stance on I wanted in person, especially starting out and I guess this is kind of true even now, is until we become a team of twenty or so, the group you're first what I've learned anyway, through our, our mentors is that your first five hires are going to be the culture of your company. So if they're remote, it's going to be a lot harder for you to get that culture to be defined. Not that it's impossible. But for us, I just feel like it's easier. Like, let's define, these hires are so important. Do I have good communicators? Do I have people who love people? Do I have people who are going to add value? Do I have people who work hard? Because those are going to be the backbone of our company. And if they're not a good fit, then we need to, we need to move on.

Omar  

Yeah, I can see what you mean is that it would be harder but not impossible with a remote team to be able to do that. My team’s fully remote, but you would never be able to fully understand the kind of person somebody is if they're not right next to you for a longer period of time, right? I mean, I have a solid company culture, company values built out, hashed out. We all work as a team together. And we have weekly meetings no matter what. But um, we're not as nearly as close as we would be is if we were all in person, right. So it's always that if there's some sort of solutions out there down the road then I'm sure I'm going to start exploring on how to build a company culture a little bit better. But one thing I do make sure, and it's funny enough, is that if I am going to hire remote I, I hire them all from the same locale. So like friends of friends, or like, team members all in the same area, if they're all going to be remote, even if they're remote away from me so that they can meet up in person, which I think is interesting, and not a lot of people talk about. Now, one thing I want to do here before we do close off is I want to dive into you, Aaron, as a person, okay? It always takes a certain temperament to be able to do the kinds of things that we're doing. So I want to know, what kind of intentions do you even hold? Like, what, who are you as a person that actually drove you to be able to make an agency like this and scale it to the position that you're in? I mean, when you were younger were you an entrepreneur?

Aaron  

Yeah, actually, I was. So I've always, for whatever reason, I don't think it was like the love of chasing money. But I always felt like I needed to means to an end do things. So I started a business when I was nine and ran it for nine years and only did that it was a lawn mowing business. It was called I will, I guess I'll say this on air. My parents didn't ever tell me it was kind of on them. So if they ever listened to podcasts, it’s on them, but it was called grass munchers. And I, my slogan was, “if your grass gets too tall, who you're going to call grass munchers.” As a 19-year-old kid, I would go door to door and make sales that way, started a couple of other little side hustles later in high school, and then in college. So I had several businesses, yeah. And then I kind of instead of going the entrepreneurial route, I kind of listened to everybody else went to college. And then outside of school, it's like, cool, this corporate job, got in an accident where I couldn't take this job making some very nice money. And it kind of forced me to get back to my roots of what I loved, which was commerce and business and entrepreneurship. So yeah, I did have a lot, a lot of them. And I just, I love communicating and just the exchange of like, it's just so important to me, I guess it's so cool. Whenever somebody says, I'm actually going to give you from me, my money, which I find the most valuable thing to me one of the most valuable things to me, I'm going to give it to you and trust you with this. 

Omar  

As entrepreneurs, we tend to forget that it's less about chasing the dollars.

Aaron  

Yes. So and less and less about chasing the dollar, as much as it is about the psychology of like it just the appreciation of somebody saying, here's my money, please help me do or take me to this next level or thank you for, you know, providing this service. And I think that's what's most exciting to me is that somebody just gave me a large amount of money. Typically, for our services now, like large, they give us a decent amount of money to say: hey, help me achieve my goals. And to me, that's just super rewarding.

Omar  

It's almost a way of, it's almost like a mission in a way it makes you feel like you're giving back and gives you a sense of purpose. I get that it's a very organic way of looking at things. I like that too. And that's, I'm guessing what kind of drove you from that old entrepreneurial side of I guess, cutting grass in the beginning and feeling like you're actually giving back to people that way, all the way to organically creating this agency that's also a service-based business giving back to people that way. Right. So how about the running side? Tell me a little bit more about that. 

Aaron  

Yeah, so I, I played sports, three sports in high school. I was probably best at football and track but more so excelled at track, did well there, got offered. I really didn't know what I wanted to do after high school. So then went to a smaller school, ran track there, and then got some offers for some D one stuff. And then both my parents lost their jobs. So kind of with the working forty hours a week plus go to school and try to have some kind of life. So I picked up road racing. And then 2014, I was like, oh, let's run a marathon. So what 2013 really but it got canceled. So 2014 ran my first marathon and just kind of became hooked ever since then, and I just enjoy, the discipline, it fits my lifestyle, I enjoy the discipline, the high achievement, and then I'm just a firm believer in using your God given talents to, to help more people. So I'm using running, people may look up to me is running, but also through running, I've been able to provide salaries for our employees, like some people reach out to me to do business because they saw that I was a runner in the community, and they have a business, and they would like to do work with us and that income provides for our employees. So it's just kind of a cool trickle-down effect. And it just gives me some purpose and just allows me to kind of excel at some talents that I have.

Omar  

Do you feel like any of those skills that you have from running or any of the discipline or anything seeps into your business as well? Or in you as a person then? 

Aaron  

Hands down. The business is, you know, my business partner is a huge part of this as well. But I would say, at least for me, ninety percent of the business is, is based off of decisions that I've made either running, listening to podcasts while running, or the discipline from doing something consistently over and over again, like running, I would say it was a huge trajectory difference in the business because of that. So hands down, I think the business is in a fifty percent or let's just say a 180-degree difference right now, if I was not running.

Omar  

It's interesting to hear that synergy there. I think it's super interesting. I think there's a lot of synergy when it comes to anything that's self-discipline-related period and your own business. And I had a mentor of mine once told me self-discipline equals freedom. And if you're able to get that self-discipline from even something else, whether it's running or a sport or something else, and then translate that into your business life, it translates very easily, you know, self-discipline in one place means you can be self-disciplined everywhere. Good, good. So perfect. I think this is the perfect way to pivot on to the last question here. And this is something that ask every single person that comes on to my podcast, you know, and I'd be interested to hear your answer as an agency owner. 

Aaron

Okay.

Omar

If you had the chance, let's say there's, hypothetically speaking, there's a billboard in space, right? And everyone on planet Earth can see that billboard in space and read it. And you could write a message on that billboard, what would it be?

Aaron  

Hmm, that's, okay. That's a good question. There's so much at that point. And it's like normal, normal billboard. So I got like, you know, five words max. I would say just kind of stealing from Nike. I would just say something like, “You can do this.” Whatever that this is.

Omar  

You can do this. Let that sink in for a minute. Kind of like keep going. Don't give up.

Aaron  

Yeah. And I think don't give up, I don't necessarily, don't like the don't give up is because it has a negative connotation first. So it's like, don't do something. But, versus like, yeah, the, you can do this, I want it to be more of a words of encouragement, just kind of looking up thing. And as you said, like in space, you can just see, it's like, you can do this. So as we're talking here, and I'm thinking, you know, I'm about to go into a call, I wonder if I'm going to close this deal. You can do this or, you know, parents going through cancer or you have a family member who's hurt or going through, you know, isolation, just looking up and knowing that you can do this. I think that that it's, it's all-encompassing.

Omar  

Definitely. And I'm glad you made that distinction as well because there's certain anchored feelings that go with negative connotations versus positive. Glad you made that distinction. And I think that's a lesson that everyone can really take from that too, right? And if you're, if anyone in my audience is listening to this right now, take this as a sign, as Aaron says, you can do this. And we'll close it off on that. Thank you so much for coming on today, Aaron.

Aaron  

I truly appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me.

Omar  

Absolutely. 

Outro

What a great episode with Aaron. Agency model businesses are our specialty. So feel free to reach out to me at Omarmodigital@gmail.com, if you'd like to learn more about the business model. Remember, Nomad Fam. We've got some incredibly value-filled episodes planned out for you. So please hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Your review helps this podcast become more visible and ultimately inspire more people just like you.

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