The Makings of a Great CEO and Leader With Patrick Palella and Roger Minton | TNE072

How do CEOs successfully handle their high-level work and uphold a cohesive relationship with their team? Whether you’re a CEO of a multi-million  dollar company or a start-up, these questions have undoubtedly crossed your mind more than a couple times. This week, I got in touch with Patrick Palella, the CEO of Qinship, and Roger Minton, the CTO of Qinship to shed some light on the matter. The two Qinship executives embody the values of a leader that anyone would happily and loyally work with.

In this week’s episode, Patrick goes into detail about the basic tenets he lives by and how those tenets translate to his professional life that’s helped not only to develop an excellent business acumen but also a strong dynamic with his team. In addition to this, Patrick also touches upon his thought process when doing business that’s helped him and Qinship reach the heights they’ve achieved so far. Then, on the technical side of things, Roger comes in and gives us a glimpse behind the scenes to give us a better understanding of how Qinship’s service works. This week’s episode is loaded with valuable advice and information that can just might help you find clarity in obscurity in your entrepreneurial journey. 

Timestamps:

[3:05]How did Patrick Palella develop his business acumen?

[7:44]Patrick’s Rules

[12:00]How Patrick Maintains A Good Company Culture

[19:05]How Roger Determines Problems

[20:01]What services does Qinship provide?

[25:30]Data is currency


Qinship website: https://qinship1.com/


Omar's (Host) Social Media:

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Facebook Group - NOMADABLES - Accountability & Growth Community for Remote Workers- Perfect to meet fellow online entrepreneurs, remote workers, and digital nomads.

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LinkedIn - Omar Mo Nomads Cast

Twitter - @nomadables

Pintrest - @nomadables

Clubhouse - @pods

WEBSITE: https://www.nomadables.com/

Transcript

The Makings of a Great CEO and Leader with Patrick Palella and Roger Minton

Omar  

Ever wonder what it's like to be a CEO of a multimillion dollar business? Perhaps you're listening to this as a CEO yourself. What does it take to become a CEO who executes at a high level yet stays empathetic with his or her team?

We really dive deep into the nitty gritty of executive life today. We're joined by Patrick Palella, CEO of Qinship, and Roger Minton, the CTO of Qinship. That's Qinship with a Q. 

Qinship is a marketing intelligence platform that offers all kinds of solutions to all sorts of businesses. Pat and Roger have an excellent team dynamic and their leadership styles shine through the conversation itself. 

This episode is packed full of advice. If you've ever thought or will ever think of becoming an executive yourself. You really won't want to miss this episode of becoming your own boss has ever been a thought or is a reality for you.

All right, Patrick and Roger, from Qinship, welcome to the Nomadic Executive. Patrick's the CEO of Qinship, a fantastically incredible marketing all-in-one solution. And Roger, here is the CTO. I'm incredibly happy to have you both on today. 

Patrick

Great to be here. 

Roger

Thanks for having us. 

Omar

Absolutely. So why don't we go ahead and just get the show on the road, Patrick? I wanted to dive deep into your life as a person. You've been the CEO of Qinship, I believe you said for a year and a half?

Patrick

Yes. 

Omar

Right. So where does your background come into play into this? Like, where did you get your start? Even in the online, whole business online space? So did you start off somewhere like brick and mortar?

Patrick

Well, I am not a technologist, let that be said right away. I spent close to 17 years in the investment industry. Then I went back to school. And the University where I did my graduate studies in business, they kept me. I worked there for several years. And then I turned around a web development and video development firm that the university owned, it was a for profit entity. And we were -  we did that. 

And after that, I was hired by a trustee of the university whose large and private equity. He had a tier one data center that he wanted, turned around and positioned. And then I did that in the past several years, I've been advising people in turnarounds from anything from mortgage banks to transportation to investment scenarios. 

The founder of Qinship, Mr. Richard Dormer has been an acquaintance of mine for some time. I had no idea he owned a technology company, he had no idea of my background with the web development firm or the data center. And we were having lunch, and it accidentally worked into the conversation.

 And at the time, I was working with a turnaround firm, I was quite happy. And he said to me, I really need you to take a look at what I'm doing. I think I have some situations, and we took a look at it. And next thing, you know, I was the CEO of Qinship. 

So that, that's my world. And, you know, that's the elevator pitch of what I've done with the last 30 some odd years of my life. So...

Omar  

Right, so it seems like you're saving a lot of businesses and a lot of different industries. Yeah, how do you think you got the business acumen or even knowledge to be able to do something like that in the first place? 

Patrick

Well, first of all, there's just some basic tenents that I live by. And I've also been exposed to a lot of businesses from a very young age where I have always been working. My time in the investment industry exposed me either through a client owning a company or advising somebody to invest in a company or analyzing a company, to a lot of different industries.

Omar

Right. 

Patrick

We're providing a good or a service. The basic tenet we have at Qinship is: We don't tell people we can do things we can't. If we need to go and get either outside help or bring in someone with the expertise to accomplish what we are accomplishing for our client, we do it. 

Roger stood next to me last year, and we had a client who was justifiably not happy. And through the whole year, that client came first. And it was… Really, I handled the communications and the business end, Roger needed to really do an incredible cleanup job on code. But it was up to he and I to execute.

And we did and what you say to a client you're going to do, you do. And that is one of those great favor with these people. So it's - you analyze it, you know what you know, you know, what you don't know and what you don't know you go get the help you need and then you execute.

Omar  

It's a very honest way of doing business. 

Patrick 

Yeah, it works!

Omar

I would imagine. So what's your thought process behind when you're first sitting down and doing an audit on a business? I mean, really, you probably have some framework you're working with, if you're able to repeat this in multiple different industries… 

Do you sit down and kind of look at the overarching way the business is going and then build out the financial plan or look, redo the business model? Do you look at? Are you what I guess what I'm trying to ask is? Are you more of an analytical person? Are you more of a visionary? And how do you handle coming in and auditing and then trying to turn it around in the first place? Like what's your thought process?

Patrick

My thought process is, and I really scared the founder, Richard Dormer, of Qinship for about six weeks. Because he would sit there, and he, you know, he would come in and see how I'm doing. And he'd sit there. And I was watching various people who were in various positions at the time, and I was just absorbing and I wasn't saying much. 

And he's like, ‘Did I hire somebody to sit here?’ And with the other turnarounds I do your initial time is observing. And the first thing you're going to sort out is who are the doers, who are the watchers? 

Omar

Right.

Patrick

Watchers can leave, doers can stay. The second thing is you look at the, you know, you got you the first thing I actually did was go out to Los Angeles. Even before I started, I started on a Monday, Sunday night I was on a plane, I went out to Los Angeles, to see this client. And to get their feedback, where they're at what they're seeing what they need to accomplish. That was number one.  

Then I internally observed the operation. And then while I was internally observing the finance, the operation, I was digging into the financials quite deep, simultaneously.

Omar

Right. 

Patrick

And if anybody wants to turn around a company, or you're in a new company, I can give you a few little rules I live by. We had incredible overhead, because people assumed demand. So we were buying software that we need to run our application. 

And we were buying licenses in volume. And we were buying emails we needed in ridiculous volume. And these bills were quite high, and we weren't we at the time, we weren't using a fraction of that volume. So I have a few rules. 

I mean, yes, if somebody says to you, you can buy, you know, four pounds a hamburger, for a dollar. And you're a vegetarian, you're not gonna really - don't buy it, because it's cheap. We had people buying things at a high level to push a cheaper price point, which was just throwing money away. 

The other rule to have is and and I like being able to reward the people I work closely with, because they get the job done. I don't like a big, bulky organization. Meaning I don't judge my position by the number of people under my charge. As a matter of fact, if I have a handful of the right people who can participate in the wealth, right? Who I know, deliver, that's what I want. 

But my hiring rule is, I like to push constraints for four or five weeks. And I don't like hiring in anticipation of, all right? 

Omar

What kind of constraints?

Patrick

Okay, let's say Roger calls me says, you know, me and the team, we've been working, you know, a couple extra hours every night, we could use another guy in and I want to see that that volume keeps up for four or five, six weeks, it's not an aberration. 

So then you don't hire somebody, and there's not work for them. And, you know, the money that you're giving to somebody who is not producing could be going to the core team who is producing. 

So I'm very I'm not slow to pull the trigger. But I don't like buying things or hiring people in anticipation of a big event. Because if the big event doesn't happen, you're going to lose money. And we walked into some of that here as well.

Omar  

So it's a - so that begs the question, then, is it better to be reactive versus proactive when you're making executive decisions in a business?

Patrick 

You have to be bold. You have to be proactive in your strategy. And I have my short term, medium term and long term goals. But within those goals, things are going to happen. 

You may have somebody referring business to you, who turns out not to being able to deliver what they promised. Okay? So while I was proactive in putting this plan together, and now in midstream, I have to be reactive to fill that void. So it's a balance of both. 

But the one thing you have to do, and I think, you know, Roger sees this in me, I trust the people I work with a great deal. I don't believe in standing over them. And I know that when an assignment goes out that we have to do something, the team I have has always delivered for me. 

And that makes my job incredibly easy. But from you know, going back, you know, with that off the table, it allows me, as a senior manager to say, ‘Oh, wow, I was counting on that from X. X can't deliver.’ I can really focus on Y and know that the team is just executing on the areas we had planned on executing on this day, week, or month or whatever.

Omar  

Right? So it's, first of all, that's an excellent answer. I mean, a good executive or a good CEO, a good founder really focuses both on proactive and reactive reactivity  in situations and when making decisions in business. 

Something that you said that really stood out to me there was the fact that you trust your team so much. And on the flip side of that your team must be incredibly loyal to you. Now that there's this big thing on company culture. And it's only gotten bigger since 2021, when or 2021 Coronavirus and company culture has become a harder thing to maintain, especially remotely. 

So, what have you done exactly Patrick to really instill a sense of loyalty within your team? And I'm guessing you don't seem like the kind of man that plays ping pong with your team on a Saturday to really build that culture. So...

Patrick

Not necessarily right, right? That’s not necessarily correct on that one.

Omar

Sure.

Patrick

It's been a challenge, because I have met half of my team face to face.

Omar

Right. 

Patrick

The other half, either due to the pandemic or distance, like, Roger’s in Michigan. And we have some, you know, we have a developer out in California. I haven't met due to the pandemic. But we've worked together closely. 

I wish that we were all closer. Because when I was probably the most fun I've ever had running a company was the web development firm. And it was a stark reality for me, coming from the world I came from. 

We had all - this was back in 1999, we had all these, you know, young, aggressive developers, and they were all really, really good. And they looked at this guy with the suit like he came from Mars. And it's funny that, you know, you say that, that New Year's Eve, you know, that whole crew was at my house, watching football, eating hot dogs, playing ping pong, listening to music. And we became just really, really great friends. And I do believe there's a place for it. 

And you know, it, I missed that part of the job due to the pandemic, I'll be I'll be straight with you, Roger and I we talk as much about, you know, cars and, and in our free time, cars and speed and you know, why camping and all sorts of interesting things. Because, hey, we’re people, you know. 

He gets a handle on what makes me tick, I get a handle on what makes him tick. And, you know, they also feel comfortable, where they call me up, and if there's a situation that they need to bounce off of me, they they feel that that I'm there and I'm approachable, which is you need to be.  Especially in a small company where we're depending on each other so much.

Omar  

Right. So then speaking of characteristics here of a good CEO, what would you say are like the top three characteristics to have your employees not only loyal to you, but also to respect you?

Patrick

Well, I think I have garnered the respect of my employees by delivering to the client, and yet being empathetic with the strain it's putting on the staff. And I think that the organization is very proud of what we did last year. They're very proud.And we worked in unison. 

And it wasn't easy at times. But we came out on the right side of it. They also know that if I am asking my development team, and my CTO to be up all night, solving a problem, then I'm not going to bed at 9:30. I'm texting him at three in the morning saying, how are we doing? 

Because I'm not, I'm not going to ask you to do something that I'm not willing to do myself. And I'm going to be up with you those 72 hours. 

So I think that is a very critical thing. And that's where you garner respect. And, you know, and it goes back to the trust factor that we have, as a small company, it's a high level of trust.

Omar  

I love that. It's a very, it seems like very family oriented environment, while at the same time, your leadership qualities as well are quite admirable. 

Like, I always love when and I know you're about to say something that's gonna make you seem like you're humbling yourself. But I always admire someone who is able to lead in a position of I'm right there with you right next to you till the bitter end.

Patrick

Yeah, I mean, part of it too, is how you're raised and where you come from the fact that you can honestly say, through college, waited a lot of tables, you pumped a lot of gas, you were a night orderly and a hospital. You know, you know what it's like. And you also know what it's like when the person supervising you doesn't have that same mentality, and how resentful you can feel. 

You know, I mean, we get, we got it, we got a nice group of people. And there are some of them that I don't talk to for a week, could be a couple of weeks at a time. They know what they have to work on. And they get it done. 

So I'm not one of these guys, who says, okay, every morning, we have to have an 8:15 meeting, and every night, we have to have a six o'clock meeting, and… No, you're an adult, you have responsibilities. It's your career, you're on a team of high performing people, you don't want to be, you know, being the screw -  the guy in the back of the line. 

So again, I trust them to want to elevate their, their - themselves. And they're going to do what they need to do. And I don't have to stand over them. If I have to stand over them, you got the wrong person.

Omar  

Right? That's a good, I'm gonna coin that line right there. I like that. 

Roger, why don't you tell me about yourself, man? How long have you been with the company for?

Roger

So I've been with Qinship for about a year and a half, about the same time as Pat, I came in a month or two after he did. And so you know, kind of just reiterating what Pat said, you know, we stepped into, you know, a situation that needed a lot of attention and love, from every angle. Not just the business side, but the technical side, and the financial side and everything. So it's been a fun journey. Over the past year and a half.

Omar  

It's cool to fall into a problem where it's a bit complex, and then at the end, you find a solution and the rewards kind of pay off towards the end.

Roger

Yeah, that's kind of been the last, I'd say five or six companies I've been with in my career. It's been that particular scenario, you know, joining in and finding out that it's either, you know, old application or old technology and or something's just not working right. It has to be updated. So it's fixing a problem that maybe wasn't a problem to begin with. But now it is.

Omar  

Right. So I guess for my audience, and my audience consists of anywhere from the newbie, someone who is an aspiring agency owner doesn't know anything about marketing, all the way to the 70 year old multi-millionaire who's been running an agency for 20 plus years, right? 

So the software - the solution, rather Qinship. If you could explain it in layman's terms, what solutions it offers to, I would imagine agency owners. What solutions do you guys offer? 

Patrick

You go first, Roger.

Roger

Yeah, I think the best way to describe it is a direct to consumer automation from start to finish, right? So if we think about the high level cycle, when you start a... whether you're selling a product or service, right, you got to get your product, you got to be able to sell it, ship it, deliver it to your consumer. 

And then you start walking, you know, backwards to how do I sell it? Is it a shopping cart? Is it a marketing funnel? Okay, now I've got that set up. Well, how do I how do I talk to these people? Is it through Facebook ads, or Instagram ads? Or email? And then how do I get those people, right? 

So once you really rely on or, you know, step all the way back to “Okay, I need to go get customers.” That's where you start deciding what are you going to do for your advertising. And you start collecting those customers and driving them to your website, or your marketing funnels are your shopping carts. 

So we aid with that portion. Setting up those ads, collecting those people, directing them to your marketing funnels, getting there, collecting that information from them, whether they're leads, or they convert to a paying customer. Purchasing that product. Delivering that product, and then all the analytics on the back end of that.

Understanding who your best customers are, what your age ranges are, what the demographics are. So then that way, you can then take that information, understand your consumer base, and retarget to them in the future for another product or service you may have.

Omar  

Right, so you guys are ecom-centric? It sounds like.

Roger

Yeah, it's, you know, I think ecom-centric is a... can pigeonhole you, sometimes? If you have anything to sell, whether it's digital, physical, it's a service, it can be sold. 

So I think, you know, when we say ecom, a lot of people think like the Amazons of the world. You have to have a tangible product. And that's just not the case, you know? 

Physical products are not as important as they were 10, 15 years ago. You know, one of the biggest products we - you see on the internet nowadays is digital education, right?

That's still a product, even though your consumers not getting anything tangible. At the end of the day, it's a digital format, it's still product, and you can still sell it and use the entire Qinship platform to do exactly what you would do as if you were selling a water bottle.

Patrick  

What's interesting, and, you know, Roger, and I, in Rogers, usually 90% of the time with me, even if I have, you know, non technical people from a potential client. But, the - and we're working on this on the next iteration of our website, you have to really, terms get thrown around direct to consumer, direct response. Data is the new currency. And I'm just taking my most problematic concepts with potential clients. 

Omar

Sure. 

Patrick

First of all, I've had people say, “We don't need you. We're selling on Amazon.” Oh, okay. Huge difference, I mean, and Amazon is the best at what they are, but let's call it what it is. That form of e-commerce is an online department store. 

So if I want a pair of gloves. I put in men's gloves, and I get 12 pages with various manufacturers at various price points. It is very much a passive selling tool. The person is going to buy gloves, which is a totally different approach. 

Then I own the best glove company in the world. And I know what my target client is, I want more of my best client. And how do I analyze it? How do I find them? How do I communicate to them? That isn't a passive buy. That's a sell. 

And there's a difference between somebody coming in buying something from you and you proactively selling it. So when you look at direct response, do you look at direct to consumer terms that get thrown around? It is very much a proactive mechanism. 

To drive revenue, yes, you can put an ad out, say “We're at Amazon.” But you know, when that client goes to Amazon and looks at gloves, he's looking at all your competitors as well. And you're not capturing your data.

Omar  

Right.

Patrick

The data from the sale that we drive gives us more information to drive future sales. And the other thing, misconception that I'm seeing, you know, with executives I talked to: “Oh, we have a lot of data.”

Great. And then they get you the new, the new phrase, does your, you know, data is the new currency. No, it's not. Data is data until you monetize it. Then it takes on the characteristics of a currency. 

If you like your data sit there, or you use it in appropriately, it is like taking your dollars and putting them under the mattress. As opposed to putting them to work, and how you put them to work and how that data is upended, and how it's sorted and how it's drilled down. To know. 

That going back to our gloves, salesman, right. He is 20-80% of his business coming from 20% of his clients. And the picture of 20% of those clients could be a female who lives in an urban area who's had 3.2 years worth of college, has a cocker spaniel, goes to the gym. 2.5. 

Okay, now it's up to us to take that, identify it, and go repeat it. So your ad dollar investment is leveraged. Instead of just carpet bombing, we're going to show you how to strategically bomb. And go right to the source. 

Omar

Right. 

Patrick

And, you know, and getting that concept across to people sometimes is a little bit different. Because they paint ecommerce with a broad brush, you know? And if you look at like, certain... many of the great things that have been done and direct to consumer. 

I mean, two years ago, Nike pulled out of Amazon and everybody said, “Oh, man, it's a big mistake.” Then they crushed their numbers, because they internally went direct to consumer. 

If you look at Disney's subscription services, how did they do it? Disney had data. They put it to work, direct to consumer. They let their data work for them. 

So did Nike. But there's an art form to that. And the small to midsize company often doesn't have the internal resources of a Fortune 500 company like those two companies.

Omar  

So that's what you guys target usually. Small to medium sized businesses. 

Patrick  

Yeah, mid size. You know, I mean, it a lot of it depends on potential we see a lot of it depends on the industry. We are preparing to... I feel, disrupt a very old industry. And that's direct to consumer workplace sales. Insurance. I know insurance sounds boring, but…

Omar

It works.

Patrick 

Yeah, everybody's gotta buy. 

Omar

Right.

Patrick

It may be boring, but if you start sorting out that you know, your homeowners, your car, your life, your health, is probably the second largest line item expense everybody has the cumulative expense on their insurance, so…

And there's a reason why in a lot of urban cities, the big buildings are owned by insurance companies. They have a lot of money.

Omar  

So anyhow, traditional they are still with their marketing methods too.

Patrick

Oh, believe me, it's been an education for us as well! You know, it's it's but they're smart enough to get caught up. So that is our that is one of the next, not the next we're in the middle of it. That's a large project that's going on right now. But it's a fascinating world. 

And again, I just I'm amazed at you know, every business cycle has it, where a few buzzwords will be thrown around, you know? 

Omar  

I think I'm gonna make my title for the podcast episode: Data is not currency until you monetize it.

Patrick

You know, I mean, it's the truth. There, you know? Right. So anyway, that's, that's a little bit of that's how I reach the non technical people. 

And then Roger comes in and does his technical magic and gets close with the potential clients, CTL. And we hopefully get a nice cross blend of understanding and the two areas.

Omar  

Sure, I wanted to talk about some technical stuff here with you, actually, Roger. So in your solution, have you guys made a custom solution on your own end to actually track people that are either coming onto your website or your shopping cart or anything? Where do you guys use the standard Facebook, Pixel, Hot Jar, Google Optimize, Google Analytics, etc.?

Roger

So kind of a blend of both. So out of the box, we have our own what I'll call basic tracking, where we track things like pageviews, and payment events and that kind of stuff, similar analytics. 

But we have the ability to enhance that. So we can put Hot Jar on there and the Facebook, Pixel. That's kind of where we, once that information is on there, and it's sending it into Facebook or Google, the platform also goes out and grabs that data and pulls it in, to enhance the customer profile. 

So it's, it's out of the box now but you know, we can add all those into increase whatever the goal is for the client.

Omar  

Makes a lot of sense. It's still a fairly new product, though, is that correct? 

Roger  

Yeah, I mean, from the standpoint of the life of the company, you know, I would say it's, it's matured. You know, we've got our main client that's on it. And, you know, now we're from a technical side, where we've gone into, we've stabilized the codebase. 

And now we're looking at what are all the new things that we can do? What are other things that we can improve upon and enhance and build for the future? So that's what we've been focusing on a lot over the past three months is stabilization and enhancements, right?

Omar  

Right. It sounds really similar to a product that my friend John Donges created. He essentially made 12 softwares that all interplay with each other, to help serve the marketers that come into the fold of his business. So he actually helped the marketers will help out other businesses. 

And it's interesting, they all have this sort of synergy with each other, that they work the best with each other, but they can also be used independently, which is really cool. But he hasn't made it available to the public just yet. He uses it internally. Is that the same case for you guys? Do you guys ever plan on releasing anything to the public?

Roger

Um, you know, so I think, from you know, currently, where we sit right now, we're taking it case by case. It's, I don't want to say it's, it's off the roadmap, or it's on the roadmap of the date. 

But I think, from my perspective, anything that I build, I have that mentality of we should build it in a way that it can be released to the public and used or it can be only used internally. 

So that way, if Pat comes to me tomorrow, and says, Hey, we need to make the whole platform public and, and, you know, be able to facilitate, you know, a Facebook type scenario where people are signing up and doing their own thing. We'll be able to do that with a little bit of work and configuration. 

Omar

You’re thinking ahead.

Roger

So yeah, it's, it's always about thinking for the future. Because, you know, as much as I love my CEO that I work with, I've been in plenty of companies where they come out of left field with a baseball bat and hitch and go, “Hey, we need to do this.” And it's like, “Whoa, I wasn't expecting that.” So, over my career, I've kind of, I've learned to be 10 steps ahead of the CEO…

Patrick

Have I hit you with a baseball bat yet? 

Roger

Not yet. 

Patrick

Okay. Just if I did, I didn't know. Sorry. 

Roger

No, no, that's the past experience that's allowed me to stay 10 steps ahead of you. 

Patrick

Okay.

Omar  

Nice. Cool. So it's just to touch up some other touch points here before we get to the final end of the podcast. Something that I always like to cover on my show is because every business always loves talking about the great things about their business and, or the accomplishments they made. 

I'm always curious about a few things, because obviously, we as business owners also struggle with this. What's the biggest pain point of your business?

Roger

You want to go Pat, or do you want me to? 

Patrick

No, you go first. I have to, I have to put mine into some...

Roger

I think this is true for a lot of CEOs, or CTOs. And people in my position is technical debt. It is, you know, I walked into an application that was built by a different architect that had a different mindset that maybe had different goals than we have now. 

So we've got our standard technical debt, where we've built things that are now outdated packages, may not be supported anymore. API's that we're using are getting deprecated. That's the standard technical debt. 

I think the biggest pain point for me is the technical debt regarding documentation of how this system was built, and how it was supposed to work. They moved really fast with...

Omar  

I'm sorry, who's creating the documentation for you guys right now? Are you're doing it as you go?

Roger

So yeah, so what we've done is we've taken the little documentation that we had, and as we've, as we were stabilizing it, we were documenting it. And now that we're starting to enhance different areas of the platform, documentation is a first thing that we do. 

Omar

Makes sense.

Roger

So, you know, it's a, I think every developer in the world can agree with me that documentation is the most boring thing on the planet to do. But it serves a purpose for the people that come after you. 

One of the things that I tell my team is to document and develop your code, as if the next guy that has to support it is a serial murderer, and he's gonna come after you, if you can't figure it out. So - 

Omar  

That’s some good motivation there.

Roger

Yeah! So it's, you know, we try to do as much as we can from that standpoint. So I think that's probably the biggest pain point for me in this company is, is that technical debt and being able to manage that with managing the expectations of the business? 

Omar

Sure, right. 

Roger

Because, you know, we, if, you know, Pat says, “Hey, we want to do X, Y, and Z.”  We could sit down as a team and go, yeah, we can do that. But we also have to take into account that we're gonna touch this code that hasn't been touched by anybody that's at this company right now. 

Omar

Right. 

Roger

Everybody that wrote that code is gone. We're liable to break something just by changing one line of code. So we have to kind of fold that into our timelines and make sure we're keeping our eye on that as well.

Omar  

Makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that. How about you, Patrick? What's your biggest pain point?

Patrick

Well, you know, I deal with some other stakeholders. I mean, you have your investors, and in the case of a company like this> You know, thank goodness, we have serial entrepreneurs who, you know, wake up one day and say, “I want to create a total, totally automated martech solution.” And thank God they do because it creates this. 

But at the same token, I'm one where focus and not looking, not being separated to go look at this tangent or that tangent. In the world of technology, there are several new offerings that are coming up every day. You cannot really pursue every one of them, you'll go broke trying. 

Where, for me, it's been okay. Last year was, we're rebuilding this thing and we're making a great application, which we do this year is I've identified an industry, the industry seems welcome to our concepts. Let's put our head down, focus on this industry for a while and really become the experts in this area.

Omar  

What kind of client acquisition strategies do you have for that industry?

Patrick

Well, it's funny because we're doing a strategic partnership with a very with a Fortune 500 insurance carrier.

Omar

Sure.

Patrick

Where I'm going to put work, we're going to participate in the growth hitting certain breakpoints. And we are going to, in conjunction with their marketing people in there compliance people, we're gonna run our app. Okay, we're going to work with their marketing people and create funnels, we're going to initiate the emails, we're going to link up to the scheduling calendar. 

So we're an integral part of their marketing department. And we have set the compensation on this just in more of a, I wanted to because I see the potential. As we hit certain breakpoints, we get compensated certain ways. 

So it's very much a success driven model, which you have to understand your client. Your clients in this industry, most of them even at the senior levels, started out as a eat what you kill agent. And then it's been their mindset and mentality. 

And when somebody comes in - I happen to know this company's business model, because I had consulted with them, you know, several years ago. And when somebody comes in and understand your business model, and understands, culturally, how you think about how you make money and says, “Okay, we're going to get in alignment here. And this is going to be my area, that's your area. And I think, your expertise over here, and my expertise over here, we're going to meter the successful midpoint is, is kind of a unique element.” 

Now, this happens to be in one insurance area, I am sure that from extended car warranties to dental insurance, this model works in this format. It's not going to be very difficult for me to hence acquire clients, I have a pretty good Rolodex being around. 

So my main strategy this year has been connecting the dots with people that have had successful working relationships over the past several years, which has not been difficult to do. Or at some point, this eat what you kill model works. 

We, if they don't come to us, we'll go to them and say you have a similar product. This is how this works. And it's really not that complicated. I tend to keep things that are very simple...

Omar  

Right. Cool. So I got one final question here for the podcast. And it's an interesting one, because I have two people on for, I think the first time in a very long time. So I'm curious to see what both of your answers will be. 

And the question is, and it can't be relating to Qinship, okay? So keep that in mind related to you in your own life journey. 

Imagine you had a billboard in space. And every single day when the sun rose, everybody on planet Earth could see that Billboard and some universal language that everybody could read. And every time the sun set, the billboard went away. What would you write on it?

Patrick 

You go first, Roger. 

Roger

Oh. I will put on there… Passion. It's what drives all of us to do what we do. And do well. So have passion.

Omar  

I like that. It’s a good answer. You must be passionate about what you do as well to be able to say that.

Roger

Yeah, I, you know, I had a boss very early on in my career tell me: If you don't love what you do, why are you here? So, and if you love what you do, then you'll never work a day in your life. I think that's a pretty common cliche that everybody says, but it's the truth.

Omar  

Makes a ton of sense. How about you, Patrick?

Patrick

And it's, it's an easy one for me. You know, I'll want to borrow something from a brilliant man. Never ever give up. Be tenacious no matter what the odds are. Don't let go of your dream. Just keep, keep, keep trying, you will break through. Then that's been the story of my life. Just being tenacious.

Omar  

I get it. Something that I can definitely 100% relate to as well.

Patrick 

And be accountable. Be tenacious and accountable. 

Omar

Take you really far. I think people give up way too early in their careers and in their life. So it's good that we say that it's something that I like reiterating on this podcast quite a bit. So I'm glad you said that. Well, yeah, thanks so much for coming on today. Patrick, thanks so much.

Patrick

Omar, this has been a joy. I've really enjoyed it. It really has. Thank you for having me.

Omar  

Absolutely. 

What a great episode with Pat and Roger. I had a ton of fun speaking with them and I learned a ton of new things about what makes a great CEO. 

Being a business owner is still something that's fairly new to me. And sometimes I make mistakes that I don't realize until later on down the road. But every single day is a learning experience. 

And I hope you my awesome audience are able to get some incredible value bombs from some of the people that I bring on the show. 

Remember, always feel free to reach out to me if there's any other topics of conversation that you'd like. As always, I love keeping it a healthy mix of travel and business content. 

So if you'd like one more than the other, feel free to shoot me an email at omarmodigital@gmail.com. That's O-M-A-R-M-O-D-I-G-I-T-A-L @gmail.com.