Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Part-Time Financial Planner, Why it works for me!
Join us for an insightful conversation with Paula Leitch, a trailblasing part-time financial planner whose journey took her from Australia to the heart of Dublin's financial sector.
Throughout our discussion, we explore her strategic decision to embrace part-time work, allowing her to balance a fulfilling career with family life, Sam of course tries to convince her to become "mama money"—a key influencer in the financial industry.
We also navigate the intricate landscape of financial planning across Ireland and the UK, through Paula's transition from an accounting firm to a pension trustee company. Hear about the challenges she encountered while balancing a demanding career and family life, including temporarily stepping away from the work. Despite these hurdles, Paula remained connected to her passion for financial planning through volunteering and ongoing education, which fueled her return to the industry. Additionally, we delve into the importance of building meaningful relationships over rigid system processes, and Paula's belief in creativity and innovation over repetitive tasks.
Our conversation further highlights the empowering potential for women in financial planning, especially for those juggling motherhood and a career. Paula shares her insights on carving out a niche tailored for families and the rewarding nature of educating children about money through financial planning. We wrap up the episode with a warm reflection on our mutual appreciation and discuss exciting opportunities for future collaboration. Tune in for a blend of inspiration, practical advice, and an uplifting journey into the world of financial planning.
Begin your financial planning career journey today
Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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Hey everybody, sam Oakes here from Financial Planner Life, and today I've got a fantastic guest. I've got Paula Leach. She is a part-time financial planner and we dig into that. Why has she gone part-time? What are the benefits for doing so? We even talk about a business plan. We start to freestyle about how she can position herself as the mama money. She is from Dublin, ireland and she started her career in Australia, so she shares about her journey in Australia and why it was vastly different from the UK and how, upon her return, it was a bit of a shock to the system. She is a fantastic guest, full of enthusiasm. We even talk about her new role business development and how together she could change her brand to become a key person of influence and get out there and win some clients. Fantastic episode. You're going to love it, right, paula? How are you doing? Welcome to the Financial Planet Life podcast, are you okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm good, Sam. Thanks for having me. Greetings from Dublin. Actually, the sun is out.
Speaker 1:The sun is out in Dublin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's cold out.
Speaker 1:Is that a rarity?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Come on. You're here from the UK, you know.
Speaker 1:I do know, I do know, but I in dubai now and it's a bit sunny, it's going all right, I'm enjoying it. It's fast paced and, yeah, I'm loving it. I'm loving the company I'm working with is hoxton well international company and they're going places. They're doing really interesting things. They're very innovative. It's a very growth mindset, culture, the place here. Anyway, dubai just feels like it's got this energy. Where you, you're not here to host, put it that way there's an expectation of yourself and others that is higher than it is in the uk. It doesn't feel the same there isn't the same level of sometimes cynicism.
Speaker 1:You know, it's kind of a gold rush out here. It feels like that feels like an environment where you can't coast and for some that's hard and for others it makes you thrive. And I'm a thriver in that type of environment because I enjoy standing on the edge. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, very nice. Or, as David Bowie said, when you're in the water and you walk all the way out in the sea and when you reach that point where your mouth's just above the water and your tippy toes, then you can't go any further. That's where the magic happens.
Speaker 2:Good news, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Barry knew what he was talking about. He made a few cracking songs, didn't he?
Speaker 2:He did all right, didn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's done. All right, Paula, this isn't a podcast about David Barry, me or the bomb okay? No, it's not. So this is about you and your financial planner life, so let's start at the beginning. Paula, how did you get into financial planning?
Speaker 2:I guess, like most people, I seem to just kind of fall into this profession. Am I the only one who kind of nobody finishes school and is like, oh, I want to be a financial planner, it's what I want to grow up to be. And you know, in terms of everything like that, my now husband, you know, was my boyfriend at the time. He's Australian, so we were out there in 2005. And that's where I kind of fell into it. But I guess, in terms of financial services and financial planning, I guess my first exposure probably was before that, when I was in uni. I got a job over the summer so I was in a call center and we were selling payment protection insurance actually to UK customers over the phone, and we were selling payment protection insurance actually to UK customers over the phone. So I went and I sat down you know, I'm 19 years old, I was doing my degree in economics, investments and French and I was sitting there and the guy's going through the products and how it works and everything. I just put my hand up. I said, look, I actually don't understand why anyone would buy this. You know, it just seems like it's very expensive and there's a lot of criteria to pay off you to wait x amount of months. I can't remember the detail. I'll never forget him.
Speaker 2:He just turned around and said just be quiet, follow the script and sell it. Like everyone in the room laughed. And I'm sitting there at 19 go, this isn't right, this doesn't make any sense. You know, and I went home to my dad and he's like how'd it go? How's the training day? And you know my dad, he's amazing, he's really great, but he's from that generation, you know. You know you do your job to your best. You know, almost like you know professionals are telling you how to do your job and I'm like dad, I really don't understand what we're selling. Like it doesn't make sense to me. I don't, I don't feel comfortable doing it.
Speaker 2:He's like Paula, you're not going to get away in life. Just, you know being argumentative and questioning everything, and you know they know what they're doing and I was like, ok, so safe to say I didn't hit their targets and I didn't do very well. I ended up leaving after about a month. You know just my morals. I was like this doesn't make sense. Ok, fast forward, 2011, 2012,. Payment protection, insurance scandals UK. How much do the banks have to pay back people. My dad kind of turned around and was like actually I think you're in the right profession, like being able to decipher and actually question that, because for me it was like I'm not going to buy this, like why am I selling this to somebody? And it was just, yeah, it was that sales culture of follow the script, you know. So, yeah, it wasn't a great first experience.
Speaker 1:So you saw the ugly side of financial services right. Yeah, sometimes that's good, isn't it? It's good to see the hiding curtain.
Speaker 2:In a way, it was actually and obviously that was. What year? Was that 1998 or 1997? Probably it was 2011, 2012,. So it all came to fruition, but at the back of my mind I was still my usual stubborn Leo kind of trait. It just didn't make sense to me and I felt they couldn't give me that answer. But it was also just the way it was sold. It was like someone had to say no three times before you hung up the phone. It was just very icky.
Speaker 1:That is very icky indeed. You mentioned, in 2005 you went to Australia. Not only can you meet your fantastic husband by the sounds of it, which is always a good thing to do, I actually met him here in Dublin, if you can believe it, oh did you oh right. So he was backpacking it's full of Australians, isn't it Dublin?
Speaker 2:Full of Australians, especially back then 2004, 2005, they all kind of cleared out around the financial crash.
Speaker 1:Right, there's a good few aussies, it's good so 2025, you were in australia and was that where your financial planning career began, or did you?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly so I went for an interview. It was like an admin support and it was financial planning firm. And in the interview I still remember and I said so what exactly? What exact product are we selling? Like what, how does this work? And I'll still remember it and she was interviewing like no, no, you don't talk about products with the client until you actually understand what they want to do with their money. You need to look at their cash flow, you need to have an appreciation of where it is they want to be, you need to protect it, you need to grow it. And then you put the plan in place and then from there you plug in the products. And I was like wow, that just makes perfect sense. And it sounds so corny. But I actually loved it from the very start.
Speaker 2:I was like that's so simple, like just helping people and educating them and just getting it right from the start. You know, in terms of their finances and not starting with right. You know, here's your mortgage, you need to set this up, you need to do whatever. Now you know they're a phenomenal company, like really, really great culture, really. Like you know I'm 22, 23, not, you know, not really knowing like where I want to go in my career and everything. But the owners, like they were just phenomenal, like they just, you know, they kind of taught you like the soft skills as well. Like, bring you to the meeting. You'd sit there and we say, look how I geared the conversation so that the client, you came around the ideal, you know whatever it was like how markets work and you know temperament and you know all that kind of good stuff. And then you know how you control the meeting. You stood up, you sat down and there was just a phenomenal, lovely culture really invested just in educating the clients too.
Speaker 2:Like the crash happens in 2008, they had maybe 1500 clients in their book. Two people cashed in. Like it was a phenomenal. You'd sit in a meeting and clients like, well, sure, you told us that this is long-term investing. That was only this part of money. You know. Um, that's fine, it'll recover. Don't worry about that, let's move on. What's the next thing? You know it was. It was just so pure like financial planning. Like I loved this. You know it was just it was.
Speaker 1:It was just great very good, there were light years ahead really.
Speaker 2:The australians amazing, like just phenomenal, be sure, even look at their superannuation, their pensions introduced in the 90s. You know, hopefully ireland auto enrollment is next year, you know so. You know it's just. It's all about, you know, communicating that. Like you know, people see pensions and eyes glaze over. It's just tax-efficient saving schemes, that's all they are and it's just this over complication and as an industry, you know, um, but um, yeah, so obviously I loved it in australia, but then, being irish, I miss my mammy who wants to come back to ireland. I mean, I love that. I know so we'd come back in 2010.
Speaker 2:So you know that was a tricky time to be coming back. You know myself, my husband, we get married at 27. We come back um in 2010. He goes back. He's full-time student and I'm like, look, I'm gonna do financial planning and it just did not exist. You know I was like wow, like this is really bizarre. Like you know, where are the financial planning firms? Because you know kind of obviously pre that, you know, I was still quite young, in my early 20s, I hadn't really had much work exposure pre going traveling, so yeah, so it was just that moment was really like okay, like what do I do now, you know, obviously, my husband's full time student. Where do I work? What do I do?
Speaker 2:So I actually ended up working for a bank in the banking sector and I didn't want to meet clients, but I worked on the strategy team and what I did was I actually trained up the branches in investment theory and protection and, you know, pension. So it was all very kind of product-led in terms of you know their approach, which you know is how it worked in Ireland. So for me it was like, okay, well, at least I can like work with the client-facing people in terms of how they educate and promote it and do that. And during that time I did, you know, the equivalent. So in Australia I had done all my qualifications. They didn't transfer over, so I had to do my QFA and I did my CFP.
Speaker 2:But the so I had to do my QFA and I did my CFP, but the CFP obviously is the highest recognized you know, the FBSP in terms of financial planning in the world globally, and it only started in Ireland in 2012. So you know it's still quite immature in terms of where we're at. So I came from this amazing, you know, kind of purist financial planning background to coming back home. So you know, I didn't realize that. You know, obviously, living in Australia you know great and this cultural thing and but I actually didn't realize I'd missed the profession and what I did. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'd had you had a taste of what it should be like and you came back, almost going back in time, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, and it was just like, oh, it really doesn't make too much sense to me. You know what I mean, um, and so, look, I did my qualifications, everything like that, and, um, you know, I, you know, enjoyed it. I made a lot of good connections, and you know you have to be paid, you know so. But in my mind, you know, a bank is primarily for mortgages, you know, and that's how they make their crust, and you know um. So you know, in the end, I ended up that, you know, and that's how they make their crust, and you know um. So you know, in the end, I ended up, you know, leaving that company. Uh, they were leaving Ireland.
Speaker 2:So, like many of the banks and the banking sector in Ireland I don't know if it's the same in the UK, um, but yeah, so from there, I was like, where do I go from here? Like I really want to get back to that purest kind of financial planning. So I did a stint in an accounting firm and the directors were lovely and really great fun, but I didn't stay for very long because their primary focus was accounting. This was just like an add-on, this financial planning. It was only a supplement to their income. I wanted it to be the primary focus. I wanted it to be at the core of what I did every day. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:no%.
Speaker 2:So then from there I actually joined. Once again, this is 10 years ago, okay. So now the last three or four years, all the banks in Ireland I don't know about the UK or the banks or the wealth management everybody's now a financial planner, everybody is the trusted advisor, you know. But 10 years ago people weren't really talking that way, like there wasn't any purist, in my opinion, financial planning firms. There was people, you know, kind of one man, kind of brokers, who had done the CFP and had seen almost this light, this light bulb of oh my god, this is how we should approach our clients and not start with the product but start with the process and, you know, really get to know them, get them understanding their money and also understanding their money. Um, but it was still it wasn't really involved, like it wasn't really happening.
Speaker 2:So I actually ended up working in a pensioner trustee company for eight years, which I absolutely loved. It was great fun, my great connections. Just from the pension kind of technical point of view, it was fab. It was really really good, um, just really good people, really good exposure, just really really good fun. Um, but in terms of financial planning, I guess it wasn't the core to their business, but they were quite happy for me to do it. They didn't really have like the lovely systems and you know all these ones. There's obviously more in the uk, but even in ireland at the time there was only a handful of them.
Speaker 2:So for me it was like, okay, it was back to basics. I was with excel and I was with a calculator and saying, okay, right, here's your rainy day fund, here's your. You know, we have to get your protection sorted. Okay, you've got a cash flow, so why don't you, you know, put some into your pension? Let's save some tax on that. What about your investments? Okay, let's have a look at this.
Speaker 2:Okay, now and then you look at the whole picture and say, okay, you're missing a will. Who's your solicitor? Okay, you're selling your business. Who's your accountant? Okay, have you thought about entrepreneurially? Have you thought about holding company? So I don't actually know all those tax bits. What I would know enough as a selling board say, right, we need to meet with your solicitor and tax advisor, we need to do all these dots and do a financial planner role in terms of kind of helping people with their money and getting them to kind of, you know, hit their objectives, so I absolutely loved working there. It was great, really, really good. Um, and then they decided, you know, to sell, which is that is their financial plan, which makes absolutely perfect sense. And then my transition in my life was I have six, four and two year old, so you know, in terms of, yeah, pretty busy. I know you have a child as well, so it's just it's crazy.
Speaker 2:And then my husband, he's Australian, he's great, he's really focused on work, very ambitious, very that you know kind of red goal focused object. You know kind of ambitious, fantastic, going for it, working lots of hours and stuff. So you know our work-life balance it's tricky and I was like you know what I've been doing. This know our work-life balance it's tricky and I was like do you know what I've been doing this for years? I love what I do, but it's okay to take a step back and mind the kids for a while. You know, so I did volunteer in the FBI. So the Financial Planning Association here in Ireland, it's like a hundred kind of similar you know certified financial planners or financial planners who meet and, you know, try to collaborate and like bring our, you know, profession and industry up, if that makes sense. So I was trying to keep myself busy but at the same time, you know, I had kind of settled in my mind right, this is okay for a couple of years.
Speaker 1:You know how long were you looking after the kids and not working them.
Speaker 2:I think it was probably about close to two years in the end, but I did have maternities, so I was probably the last five years out of the workforce. I would say Maybe four years, three and a half years at least, you know and kind of dipping back in and out and like I'd always keep like, if you have your qualifications, if you do your CPD and I'm an absolute nerd, I love reading books about psychology, money and podcasts and I always I actually genuinely love what I do. So but at the same time, to try to fit that in with the home life, it's just, you know, I had kids later in life and I want to be with them, I want to spend time with them and you know, unfortunately there is that motherhood penalty and it's you know, even in terms of pensions, I give pension advice and I know very well my pension has really suffered. Why not working? So I guess I am working at the moment because Carl Wedger he's in Metis Ireland. He approached me and said look, you know you've got to get working. You know, you know the industry and everything. You love what you do.
Speaker 2:And I said, said, look, I'm looking for part-time hours, I want to be with the kids. He's like look, I 'll give it to you. Why don't you come in and do a support role? You know just, you know, come in, be in the background to support, do like you know. So obviously in the financial planning process there's a client facing person. You know they hold the relationship, you know everything like that. But obviously to make everything happen, someone has to build the plan in the background. Someone needs to fill in those forms to set up whatever product the pension, the income protection, follow up all that stuff. So I was like, look, that would suit me to the ground. I could do that with my eyes closed, you know, in terms of that role, and it would be great. I wouldn't have, you know, a lot of stress in my life. It would just be get in, plug and play, do what I need to do, get home to the kids. This would be great.
Speaker 2:So three months into it, he was like nah, yeah, this isn't suiting you, having you sitting in an office like what's that about? Which is really nice as well. Um, because he is right, I thrive on people and energy and I've 20 years experience in doing this. You know I'm sitting there, you know typing in figures. It was like look, you know, and which for me, was such a compliment and really good as well, because I have so many friends who are trying to work part-time or have young kids. They're passed by promotion, promotion, promotion, like medicine was different. They looked at it and said, actually, do you know what we see value in this? Let's go for this, you know, which is really exciting as well, because they are a purist financial planner as well, which is, as I said, what I've been looking for and I've had it gone full circle. So, look, it does have its challenges with small kids and you know we were just talking about someone being sick and how all that works, and you know your own relationship and I think everybody struggles with that. But at least I'm lucky.
Speaker 2:I'm in a profession that I love, what I do, and obviously I do financial planning. So when we took our mortgage in our house, I based it on one salary and not two salaries seven years ago, because I was like I don't want to be crushed with this debt and we both would have to work, which was hilarious, because you sit down with the bank and they're like hey, but you could get another 250 000, why don't you just get some more of a mortgage and you know. But obviously I do financial planning, I do cash flow, like yeah, but I don't want to be crippled by debt with that. I want to have that flexibility.
Speaker 1:So for me as well, working part-time it's a choice, as well, that what I'm doing, if that makes sense 100% and it's nice to hear that there is a an employer that will encourage somebody who's got kids right to work part-time. That should be available in most businesses, really, and I think that's where financial planning can be very attractive as a career because it can allow a father or a mother who wants to spend time with their children to have that flexibility. It often is seen in a self-employed capacity that someone would have that flexibility. Are you employed or are you self-employed? No, I'm employed, okay.
Speaker 2:So I'm employed with Memphis Ireland. So yeah, I did kind of consider the route of going self-employed. You know, I love what I do, everything like that, but to be honest, I thrive working with other people and the team environment and things like that.
Speaker 2:And you know, in terms of, there's a lot that goes into it. You know, in terms of regulation, in terms of marketing, in terms of you know, I would. You know it's great to have a team and I sit down and do everything with the client and say, right, this is a strategy, this is the plan. We're going to set up this tension with this provider. We're going to do set up this income protection, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And to have a support team. We're going to do that in the background and I don't have to worry about it. Like, that's where for me. To me, you like the psychology of money, right? So you obviously are somebody that is quite good at probably getting the mirror out and taking a look at yourself as well. Right, I enjoy that. You strike me as that type of individual. So do you think? Working employed against self-employed and listing all those things that honestly send a shiver down my spine? So I've run my own. I've run my recruitment business 25 people in there and I'm now employed. So I sold it and now I'm employed for a financial plan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, and how do?
Speaker 1:you find this. I enjoy it because I can hyper-focus on the things that I enjoy. I've still got financial plan of life, which is a business right In its in its own right, which is great, but it's like a micro business and it's mine, right, yeah. And then I'm employed by hoxton wealth and they pay me a salary to do a job of which I enjoy that. I'm being paid a salary to hyper focus on the area of the business that needs my attention and my expertise and I'm not wasting my time on the part of the business or other areas that are taking my energy because I'm a bit. I find it tricky to. I'm not like super organized as a person.
Speaker 1:I'm not bad, but I am not a naturally organized person so I have to play, I have to be playing and talking more than building spreadsheets and numbers. And I find that really, really hard. And not because I find it hard in the sense, it's just that my brain isn't wired that way. My brain is wired to build relationships and my brain is wired to ask questions and my brain is about problem solving and playing. And you give me an idea and you said, sam, I got an idea and I go, bro, let's hear it, and I'll challenge it, and I'll challenge it and we'll come to a conclusion. And then, as soon as it makes sense in my head, I am like right, I'm off and I'll go out and I'll get a prototype and I'll do it and I'll build it, I'll prove concept and then when I prove concepts, it's a feat.
Speaker 1:There's a problem that I can get bored at that point because it's the dopamine chase and the reward of solving something and getting the reward at the end of it. If someone said now rinse and repeat that, sam, that's really quite difficult. So part of my job needs to be about chris has introduced me something because more, more, better, new, so I get. So I jump on new too much right, whereas I've got something that's working. I need to do more of it Better, I need to refine it and then I can move on to new. So I've kind of been focusing on the more and better at the moment and when, reversing the fact that I get my kicks from building better processes and adding more to the things that work. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think we sound very, very similar. I'm very, very social, I love, I thrive off of their people and everything like. I would be very up here, like as well, with the ideas and everything. And you know, and I guess a lot of companies and a lot of businesses, how they work. You know, which is a challenge for me, like in terms of the corporate approach, it's like okay, well, it has to be system driven. It has to be processed. We have to segment our clients. It has to be goal focused. You need to do x, y, z, like. Years ago I had, you know, a manager who said to me it's like okay, like it's great that you've got this client in the door, but it took you four meetings. You know, if you did it in two.
Speaker 2:You'd have two clients, you'd have double the income and once again, I'm just not wired that way like I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like trying to get that and, just like you know, for me it's like it's more quality. If someone takes 10 meetings, that's what it takes. I'm explaining. It's a process. I've been doing this 20 years, those ones that you know, don't you know, you've to kind of take your time with people in terms of appreciation of what you know, what they want to achieve and what they want to do, and that takes time. And I guess institutions, they want to plug and play, they want to you know, their business.
Speaker 2:They want they want to make a profit like that makes perfect sense. You know I get that, but it's it. For me it's always a challenge. I'm all the way up here and I have these great ideas and I'm the kind of person if someone's investing 10,000 or 10 million, I spend exactly the same amount of time. I'm not that wired or goal focused to go right. That person is the one I need to target, like my husband kind of. He will be that kind of goal focused and get stuff done, kind of as you said you and I are you.
Speaker 1:You are also a get stuff done type person right, because you've studied, you've worked hard, you do a great job. You are a get stuff done type person right, because you've studied, you've worked hard, you do a great job.
Speaker 2:You are a get stuff done person and you well exactly, and I always, always have in terms of my conversion rates with clients, like I actually have a really, really good conversion length but it just may not happen as quicker with from the corporate. You know side of things, you know what I mean. Like they could look at somebody else who's able to bang bang bang and you know side of things. You know what I mean. Like they could look at somebody else who's able to bang bang bang and you know more efficient versus your picks.
Speaker 1:From the conversation, from the connection, from the empathy, from the you know, the feeling right and that can go on and it prolongs our conversations because they are so stimulating and that oxytocin that was released, we feel good so we want to continue. We can't. It's difficult sometimes with some to have a boundary, when that actually is because you are so connected and some of us empaths tend to be quite he can build connection really easy and it feels so much stronger than somebody who can just go. But the person who goes sometimes might not give something enough time to understand the other side because it's just well, what do I get out of it?
Speaker 2:I know, you know, and and I think you have to have those two types of people in a business to balance absolutely like, like you know, and I think for me, you know, the focus is, as I said, that quality, that long-term standing relationship, you know, and by putting the time in at the start, like it, just for me it makes sense. You know, and I, just, you know, feel in terms of in Ireland, how people approach financial services, which kind of brings us onto my love of psychology, of money and everything. But like people who approach financial services or meet with a financial advisor or planner, you know they're kind of telling you what you should do with your money. You know this makes logical sense you should set up a pension, you should. You know you get tax relief. You know you should pay down your debt mortgage. You know, instead of investing because of the interest rates. But the actual human behavior and what's going on with someone and try to actually get someone to do that In the background, what's going on with them. You know what I mean. It's like okay, people don't make decisions based on spreadsheets and figures, like not all people are vigorous people and, even though it makes sense, what is holding them back, back? Why aren't they doing what they, you know, kind of should be doing? So I feel a financial planner, financial voice, a role is not to tell someone how or what to spend their money on, or whether something's a right or wrong decision. If I'm in a client, so what would you do? It's like it's not like, look, I've said the pros and cons of whatever strategy. I recommend is does that sit right with you? You know this is your money. You've worked hard for it, you know.
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example of a client I met recently. She had you know she was how old is she? About 47, 48. She had $400,000 sitting in cash and she was renting and like tradition is rent is dead money. You shouldn't be renting, you should get a mortgage, you should buy a home, in her mind. She was like, okay, well, the rent actually covers the interest that you pay off to a bank over the lifetime of loan. Cool yeah, that makes sense. She's like is this a crazy thing to have done or whatever? It's like it's your money. I'm not going to tell you whether that's right or wrong or make you feel bad about your previous decisions. You know it's about appreciating and understanding it.
Speaker 2:Then there's a conversation developed. She said that back in whatever 2000s, her parents were convinced to do an equity release in their home and they lost their home. So she had this affiliation with banks, that she had this you know, bias against them and was like I don't want to give them anything. So who am I to tell her she's right or wrong in doing that? You know, and I feel that's where, in terms of that kind of advice gap. You know, in terms of actually being authentic and listening to where that person is coming from and not pushing them into doing something A too soon or B, making them feel wrong about their own decisions, does that make sense Like?
Speaker 2:you know, money is a choice. Like I've decided to work part-time, I'm not earning as much working part-time. That's my choice. You know what I mean. It's just how you use it. And as a financial planner, I think our roles is, you know, to help people kind of identify what they want to do, prioritize it and achieve it. So if the money isn't there and they're not going to achieve what they want to do, it's totally unrealistic.
Speaker 2:You have to tell people the numbers are not going to lie and that's where you get someone who's skilled, who's able to have that conversation with you and say, okay, you need to be disciplined in your approach, you need to do xyz, but um, that's that's really where I feel as an industry and as a profession, we have kind of failed people like you know back payment protections, you know insurance product that was just being flogged.
Speaker 1:Do you know what, like different people react differently to different people. So I sat with you and your style of communication how you see the world I'm the same. And how you see the world, I'm the same. And I would trust you and I feel open with you because I'm an open individual. I would tell you my feelings and I would tell you I'll be honest, I'd drop my pride and I would talk to you and I would be honest with you and I would want that kind of conversation and clarification, because I'm a thinker, I'm a debater and I like to look at different things and I have to talk to understand. It drives people mad sometimes, I think, because I'm not black and white, right. So a black and white thinker, for example, is probably thinking shut up and get on with it, you know.
Speaker 2:Which is great, sam, because I worry about the clients that don't ask any questions. Then they sign up and they're just sitting there and you're just talking. They don't ask questions. They sign up, something happens and they didn't really understand it. Questions, the more questions and the more time you spend at the beginning is why in Australia those people didn't cash in. You know what I mean? A few everyone, just in Ireland. So we were all mortgaged to the hilt.
Speaker 1:There's like a kind of when is? What is the right amount of time then to spend with a client?
Speaker 2:I want to be straight.
Speaker 1:I suppose that's why they've done away with things like targets and stuff like that, because it's about that level of service, but then at the same time it's a business that needs to make money.
Speaker 2:It is a bit You've got to be a commercial too, like in fairness, you know maybe it is ludicrous, I spend exactly at the same time on one person over another, but that's just how I'm wired and you know. You know some people look at that. You know, like I just I'm just, you know I kind of you know that.
Speaker 1:But there's a value, but there's a value to what you do and how you do in a business, the same as there's a value to have somebody in there that can churn and go really quick. Not churn, but you know what I mean get through, yeah just get stuff done.
Speaker 1:So you kind of need different people in different cities. Now, the way I look at somebody like you and the way you think is I think there's a lot of people that need an extra bit of support before they even get financial planning right. And at the moment you've kind of got coaching and coaching's out there, and some of it's unregulated, some of it some people are well, it is unregulated, but some of them don't have any experience being a financial planner etc. I always think that. But I'm thinking about trying to get this implemented into where we are at the moment, which is this the well-being side, or the coaching side, is perfectly positioned to prepare people for financial planning if they need the extra, not hand-holding, but explanation and organization.
Speaker 1:So not everybody learns the same way. Not everybody is at the same level. Now you can have a million quid and be kind of emotionally damaged in the past around money and you've got some crap you're holding on to and you can't trust an advisor, you can't make a decision, but you know you've got to do something. Um, so you've got to speak to somebody. So you get this person then who comes in and he's like right, let me spend some time with you, let me talk to you, let me work it all out. Let's get everything in order. You could have somebody who's an entrepreneur, who's completely dyslexic or ADHD or whatever, and they're never going to be organized, but they've probably pushed it down. Pushed it down because all they're doing is running, running, running over here because they want to build their business. They've made a lot of money, but in the meantime, they're also stressing about money in the back of their mind because they're not doing anything about it, about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like there's this. It should be coaching and a well-being approach within every financial planning business, because you're capturing and you're you're capturing the ones that will pull away. You're educating them to go back into the system when they're ready to actually when they're prepared to speak to the financial planner, and I think, having it within the business and having a part of the process. It's also a great area also for trainees to be in as well, because trainees can learn from a coaching perspective and you can go into businesses and it's that emotive side and there's loads of cool things you can do around it and only very few financial planning companies actually have oh, you're right, and the thing is like with a lot of clients like you know, um, I've dealt with a lot of high net worth and ultra wealthy kinds over my career.
Speaker 2:um, they were like, and a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners like, and they're phenomenal, like their way their brains work, they're so intelligent, everything they just have never invested in time with their money, understanding markets or pensions overly complicated, so it's not even a matter of they could do it themselves if they had the time to sit down and research AI, you know all this kind of stuff. The information's available. It's on to just relay it in a simple form to them and just mirror their opinions. You're just a sounding board Like. I'm never going to tell someone that that was a bad idea or you shouldn't, you know?
Speaker 1:buy your home in France, it's like that's your money, you know this is Education, it's learning styles and everybody is different and there isn't one way and that's it. You have to kind of cater for different people who learn differently, who interpret things differently. Everyone's different. You know, we're all different. I think that's the key thing. It's like school, isn't it? You know you learn it this way, at this time and this way, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And I did. I just I loved school in the sense that I went and I had lovely friends and I loved playing football and all of that. But when it came to actual the structure of the education system, way unwired, it was so hard, like you know. Like it was so hard for me doesn't mean I was thick as two short plaques, it just meant that environment wasn't right for me and how they were communicating was for a classroom of 70 percent that bought a certain way, and then the 30 percent is just like well, we can't really do much for you, you know. You know you're not dyslexic, you're not this, you're not that, you're not this, you're not that.
Speaker 1:So you're not going over there, so you're just gonna have to kind of just try and get through this. And then what does that do to our self-esteem? You know it lowers it. It lowers it and I could probably understand that in the same sense of money. So you come to a place where your sense of self-esteem or your lack of understanding or knowledge or education around it might make you feel less, which needs you've got to go into a safer space where you don't feel like you are less than because you don't know we're living in an era where it's like keep up with the Joneses, or you know people think about money and they just get this feeling of a bad feeling.
Speaker 2:I should be saving more, I shouldn't be spending as much.
Speaker 2:I should be doing X, y, z. You know why are those people retiring earlier than me? Like, what is this? Blah, blah, blah, blah. It should be, you know, and it's like we need to reframe our way of thinking here. You know what I mean. Like it's like it's just taking ownership and having a look at your own situation. Everything is different. You know, um, and I do think, a couple of adjustments and, speaking to a financial planner, you get an appreciation of your money and what the value of it is to you and just getting a little bit organized. You know what I mean, and I think financial planning as an industry, it it's just, you know, trigger those kind of meaningful conversations Because at the end of the day, I think people are just worried about are we going to be okay, like a lot of times, you know, peace of mind.
Speaker 2:I'm not. And even those people who become really, really wealthy, they're like I don't want to make the wrong investment decision, and they agonize over it and they're so work, so hard to get this money. I don't want to lose it, or have we got enough? Or, if you know, something happened to us. Who's going to mind the kids? And you know it's all that kind of, as I said, the psychology of it all and just, yeah, it's, it's, you're right. Like it's probably an initial step versus the actual figures. And here's your cash flow and here is this product you should set up. It's.
Speaker 2:It's more the, the education piece, the understanding, like in terms of investing. Like you know, being a clever investor, like it's nothing to do with intelligence, it's got to do with temperament. You know time in the markets and all that kind of good stuff. Like there's so much investment theory out there. You know, in terms of your attitude to risk, how you feel about it. It's actually risk tolerance. How much can you afford to lose is what people should be thinking about.
Speaker 2:You know I'm setting up my pension. I'm not looking that for 30 years, I'm 100 to the markets. It doesn't matter whether that goes up and down cyclical, it's going to move up and down. It's not like I'm invested in, you know, one equity in one country that's going to drop and I have everything in the one basket. It. It's totally diversified. You know you're just going for that. But I'm saving for the deposit for my house. I don't want to take any risk with that. The market's dropped 2% and I missed the sale of my house, no way you know. So it's about understanding and having an appreciation of what your money is for and those different buckets. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, paula. Do you do much around business development and winning new clients or do you work with, like an existing client book? No-transcript, it's just fun, yeah, but I can imagine well.
Speaker 2:It is going well. But also I haven't worked in a good few years so I've been doing this, you know 20 odd years. So it's you know it's it's tricky because I have young kids and everything like that. But I have to say, you know, in terms of the support I'm getting, you know, and in terms of our approach, in terms of you know carl and you know the management team and everything like it really is going towards what I believe in in terms of financial planning. But now it is tricky. I'm doing it on a part-time basis, I'm trying to manage the kids, I'm trying to think about you know where I you know where you know you get your business in which it is going well and I do think that kind of just happens organically.
Speaker 1:It just takes time tell me, tell, tell me in the short space of time what you're doing. That's got a sheet result.
Speaker 2:Okay, so far, to be honest, it's probably been reaching out to my existing network who already know me. I have ran two events, and so LinkedIn has actually really worked. I've had four people reach out to me from my own past, so I didn't actually proactively go to them. They said look, you're back working, can you meet with me? And that's worked. I've re-engaged with. There's an accountant who I work really well with and she always gives me really good referrals and things like that. Or just, look, paul is a good person to speak to. So, to be honest, I've only been doing it since may and I took july and august off to be with the kids and I did a part-time. So, to be honest, I've run two events, which have been really good. I'm trying to get a bit active on linkedin just so that people know that I'm back working and that I want to help and I want to educate people and just get them up with their financial planning. So, yeah, it's, it's going well.
Speaker 2:It's a you know, um, it's you know it's, it's a tricky one. I've never really done this before. I've always had existing clients. Now, in my previous role in the pensioner trustee, they took away my clients and left me with 10 and said look, just go for it, go out, do business development. You know you can do it. But it was a bigger firm and there was a lot of referrals coming in. I didn't realize how, how easy it actually happened, like I didn't actually have to go find it, I just sat down with someone and converted it. You know it's it's thinking that and thinking outside the box and just thinking, hey, what I enjoy and what I, you know, I do want to spread the message of financial planning as well, you know. But but in terms of that business development, how do I reach people? What is the best way of doing this? You know.
Speaker 1:Have you ever read the book Key Person of Influence by Dan Priestley?
Speaker 2:No I haven't.
Speaker 1:Okay, you will thoroughly enjoy that book at this stage in your life. Okay. It's about establishing yourself as a key person of influence within a specific niche. So you need to develop yourself. Like, for example, Kerry Griffith is a podcast I recorded a little while back. She is a financial planner to women divorcing multi-millionaire CEOs. That's a fair segment planner to women divorcing multi-millionaire CEOs.
Speaker 2:So third, segment.
Speaker 1:So she's establishing herself as a thought leader for women divorcing men. She's establishing herself as a thought leader in the divorce space in general. She's establishing herself as a thought leader where she can work with specific. She's establishing a thought leader where she can work with specific network type clients. Therefore she can position herself with accountants, relationship coaches there's lots of things that happen in that space, just all that kind of stuff. So she's really putting herself out there.
Speaker 1:And then when you do that and you hang your hat on it and you put it out there and you create some content. So if someone's searching for that type of thing, they'll find you and then you become a person of influence. And then you think but what am I? How do I get myself out there? How do I productize what it is that I'm doing? What's my 60 second pitch and all of that, and how do I build that community? And how do I? How do I establish myself as a thought leader? And then, when you go into that space, all of a sudden you are the financial planner within a circle of other key people of influence. So you might have a key person of influence over there as a solicitor. A key person of influence over there who's an accountant, and then you become the key person of influence in that circle within the niche that you're in. You've just got to work out what it is that you enjoy the most. What to work out what it is that you enjoy the most? What market would you enjoy communicating with? Have you any experience that would position you as a key person of influence in a certain area? So I'm I started the financial planner life podcast because I owned a recruitment business.
Speaker 1:Recruitment doesn't ever really have a great name and I wanted to establish myself as a thought leader. So I created a podcast that talked about financial planning careers. I created a higher purpose and the higher purpose was attract more people to the profession. That aligned with the higher purpose of everybody in the financial planning profession, because there was a problem and no one was doing much about it. So I came with a solution. I created a podcast and shared people's career journeys to educate others.
Speaker 1:Selfless. I'm somebody, and by doing that I then had higher status than every other recruitment company. So if I phoned up a company and said straight to the director do you want to come on my podcast and talk about your career to inspire the next generation. They'll say, yeah, it's a really good idea. Now, obviously, I'm sitting there giving them staged talk. That's helping them attract talent directly, raise their brand, raise their profile. Obviously, I'm building a relationship with them, yeah, you know. So candidates start listening. Other people start listening. When I pick the phone up to somebody, he says, oh Sam, I've seen you on LinkedIn. So all of a sudden, I'm a key person of influence. And then I product sign. So I created a marketing company and I created an academy and all of those good things that was missing. And you know, and that's how I established myself as a key person of influence. I was no longer a recruiter, I was somebody that was helping, not hindering a profession.
Speaker 1:I get you yeah, interesting kind of angle like.
Speaker 2:I feel like it sounds really like. It feels like, to be honest, I could have gone down an easier route. I could have joined a firm that handed me over an existing client book. I could have. There was roles going where I could do the pension, the technical person in the background, you know, in terms of a big company, you know, come to us to talk like, or a technical role or something that's not. But, as my husband says, he's my best you know kind of supporter he was like so boring. That's not you. You need a challenge, you need to push yourself. You know, and you know that's what I've really found with Menace Ireland. I feel like they're very, very supportive.
Speaker 2:I feel like the moment this is the hardest point for me. I have three small kids. I'm only back into the workforce trying to get my name and brand back out there. Just look, I'm back working. This is what I really, this is what I enjoy. This is why I'd love to meet you. I guess my specialist area is really company owners, business owners and entrepreneurs. That's really company owners, business owners and entrepreneurs like that's with who I've always worked with in Australia and here, and it's, it's funny and and it is, and it's a different approach as well with them, because they're so busy you know what I mean like they're so um you know they're so busy with what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Now, the two events I ran were actually targeted towards women because in my mind I feel there is a gender gap. There is an advice gap. There is we need to talk about it more and that's almost a harder cohort than the entrepreneurs. You think they're busy and have loads of stuff going on in their heads. Try to get like you know, a working mom or whatever, like you know, to actually you know kind of focus and actually think about themselves and prioritize what they want to do with their money and get them thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Whenever I meet a client, even, I always, always will you invite and unfortunately generic, like it's a big, you know generalization, but a lot of the entrepreneurs who I always would have worked with were male. So whenever we did anything, I always wanted to meet their wife. That was it. This is a family. They need to know what's going on. And he meant to women who will come in and be like, oh, I don't know anything about finances, but then they'd surprise themselves. It's like you actually do. You know what I mean and just giving them. So for me, you know, there's obviously that side of it where I want, I want everyone talking about it. You know I want people to be proactive, take ownership. Just think about your money. People's eyes glaze over a pension money. You know what I mean. It's like it's actually you know it's it's, it's interesting, it's it's worth talking about. We deal with it every day, like it's, you know you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're almost telling me exactly where a niche actually is. So have you ever heard of a company called the Mortgage Bar?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's a mortgage company and predominantly a lot of women in it, and she created the business to be able to get women who are mortgage advisors to be able to choose a career and work in a career that gives them flexibility to be mum.
Speaker 1:And if you go on her social media where he runs it. She's on this morning and stuff like that quite a bit. She came on my podcast a while back. If you go on a social media mortgage mum, just find her. She'll show her family. She'll show what it's like running a business, what it's like being a mother, and she doesn't shy away from that. What makes her unique. It shows she's busy. It shows she's driven. It shows she's caring and takes time and nurturing and that she values family values well in fairness beautiful, you're ready made.
Speaker 1:And how many women would love to hear and and listen to somebody talk about the fact that they are working hard whilst being a mother part-time, and that's okay, you know, that's cool. And how many women out there are running businesses with your business background who think about that. They want a child and all of that and might not know how to prepare for that or plan for that. I mean, how many men I didn't think about it? I might, I don't plan, I didn't ever planned it. I might, I don't plan, I didn't ever planned it, you know, you know and thought about the financial side of it. I winged it, you know it was. You know. So business owners thinking about having a family you know, like you are the you've got the mortgage mum. There's nobody in financial planning. That's, I think, established themselves as the niche of being a mother and a financial planner and, I think, dominate that.
Speaker 2:Okay, and there's a whole thing.
Speaker 1:You can talk about family life. You can talk about family cover. You can. How many things family there are so many things you can talk about that are financially specific to families but it opens you up to a network of other people that specifically deal with mumps. Therefore, you can go on somebody's podcast. You can go on that person's podcast, but it opens you up to a network of other people that specifically deal with mumps. Therefore, you can go on somebody's podcast. You can go on that person's podcast. You can create content. You can. How much content could you create around being a mother and being a financial planner?
Speaker 2:it's an amazing little life. One of, actually one of the clients I have on board is um. She is a mom and she was like, look, trying to figure it out, and she's a newborn. She's like, look, I need to feed my baby, is that okay? If I, you know, I was like, look, trying to figure it out and she's a newborn. She's like, look, I need to feed my baby, is that okay? If I, you know? I was like, well, have the meeting with your baby. Like you know, that's not an issue. Like, don't worry about that.
Speaker 1:Like you know, you have up money, mum. Okay, what Mummy? Mum, Sorry, money yeah money mum.
Speaker 2:But what?
Speaker 1:would you call a man, don't you oh?
Speaker 2:yeah, mammy money, mammy money, yeah, yeah, yeah, mammy, that's the real Irish right.
Speaker 1:Mamma money. I just think you know I, I love spitballing ideas. This is how my brain works and you know when and I'm, and I think you know you're bang on, right, you, you strike me as somebody oh, it goes back to the david bowie analogy right? You thrive in that environment and it sounds like everybody that has met you carl, who's obviously one of the hosts of the trap podcast, knows what he's talking about. He's obviously seeing something in you, is encouraging you to be that person and and I'm seeing it like you wouldn't believe, like you would never be sat behind a desk being a power planner or he's just this isn't. That's not you. That's not you. And I actually think being part-time fine-tunes you at this point in time and you watch, you watch in the next one, two, three, four, five years, when your kids are getting older, and all of a sudden you get that bit of time back. You're going to be like it's just inevitable yeah, yeah, no thank you no, it's uh.
Speaker 2:Look, it's exciting. You've kind of given me a boost because you know yourself, sometimes you take a step back on, sort of gone an easier route. I kind of just gone and worked in a bank and just been given a book of clients and just you know, um, or as I said, gone to a technical role, which you know is perfectly fine, it would be lovely, but I just I don't know my personality, I don't think that really was uh yeah I don't think it would really suit.
Speaker 1:You don't suit the easy route, mate. You do not suit the easy route. There is no easy route no there isn't just there. Convenience kills, yeah, true, like there is no easy route. The whole purpose of life is not to. It's too easy. You die. You know it's just you leave yourself to death, or you it's too easy. There's no challenge, there's no purpose. You need to get up in the morning and be like in the ocean with your tippy toes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you touched on it earlier as well Like as a profession, as a career, it's actually a really good one as a working parent. Like it's flexible, you're adding value, you're educating people, you're helping them with their money. Like I said, look, we just need to reframe what we do and how we approach it.
Speaker 1:Imagine going up to the school gate and you're, the more you're, the you're the money, mom and everyone. Oh, you're the money, mom, you're the money mom yeah, you know schools would be interested. There's educational stuff you can do with kids, teaching kids about money, meaning there's so much you can do in that space. It's ridiculous, I know it's speaking kids money.
Speaker 2:We have like our credit union here in fairview and they actually know my kids. They go in with their like fibers to put into their accounts, teaching them how to know oh, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:Well, paula, thank you so much for your time today. It's been really lovely talking to you. I've really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you, and um, thanks very much. Good luck with your careers. Keeping contact now linkedin, aren't we? So let me know how you're and if you ever got an idea if you ever want to run something by me, just for my opinion, you're welcome to. Thanks a million Sam no really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thanks for your time. Cheers, Paula Ciao.
