Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
Be sure to check out
Financial Planner Life Academy - start your career today!
https://financialplannerlife.com/academy/
Financial Planner Life Podcast
How I achieved £500,000 turnover as a self employed financial planner with Foster Denovo
Ever wondered what it takes to successfully transition from product sales to holistic financial planning? Today, Financial Planner Life host Sam Oakes sits down with Nikos Christoforou, a Senior Partner at Foster Denovo, to uncover the challenges, mindset shifts, and strategies that can make or break a career in financial planning.
In this episode, Nikos shares his journey from stockbroking and product-focused sales to a values-driven approach in financial planning. Starting as a self-employed advisor, Nikos quickly realized the differences between selling a product and offering comprehensive financial advice. This transformation wasn’t easy, as it required him to unlearn sales tactics and adopt a holistic approach that placed his client’s needs at the forefront.
With insights into the mindset shifts required to build a sustainable client base, Nikos talks candidly about the challenges he faced in his early years and the invaluable support he received from Foster Denovo. He emphasizes that "trust takes ages to build but can be gone in an instant," highlighting the importance of strong foundations and client relationships.
Through a structured "Four Pillars" approach to financial planning, Nikos explains how he educates clients on cash flow, asset optimization, protection planning, and investment management. This framework has helped him gain clarity with clients, leading to stronger relationships and long-term trust. He also shares the impact of niching down with specific client types, such as lawyers and shipbrokers, which has allowed him to master industry-specific needs and streamline his services.
Sam and Nikos also discuss the benefits of working within an ecosystem like Foster Denovo, where mentorship, peer accountability, and support for scaling one’s business are readily available. Nikos stresses the importance of having a robust support network, being disciplined, and investing in personal development to maintain mental resilience in a high-pressure industry.
Whether you’re new to financial planning or looking to deepen your expertise, this episode provides actionable insights for growth, both personally and professionally. Nikos’s experience shows that to succeed in financial planning, it's not just about numbers—it's about building strong foundations, finding the right support, and understanding the real value you bring to clients.
If you’re interested in a career with Foster Denovo click here
Begin your financial planning career journey today
Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
Be sure to follow financial planner life on YouTube for extra content about a career within Financial Planning HIT THAT SUBSCRIBE BUTTON!
If you're looking to start your career in Financial Planning, check out the Financial Planner Life Academy here
Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or career development.
Nick Hoss, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you? I'm very well. Sam Thanks, fantastic. Well, we're back again at Foster De Novo. Always a pleasure to meet you, and today you're going to tell us a little bit about your career journey at Foster De Novo, what you were doing beforehand and where you currently are now, and really what the future looks like for you. What have you learned along the way as well? What's going to inspire those listening to this podcast right now to make a change in their financial planning career? Because it's not easy, it's tough. You're living proof of that and today you're going to share that journey with us and, hopefully, some learnings and some teachings along the way. So let's just crack on. First of all, with who are you, what you're currently doing at the moment and how you ended up at foster de novo cool.
Speaker 2:Um, so I'm a senior partner at foster de novo. I've been doing this under FD's umbrella for this is year six or seven. Prior to that I was at a large wealth management firm. So I suppose the journey really for me was just, I've always been into finance as a youngster, so I started off at stockbroking, so that's how I got my qualifications, and then I went to a wealth management firm and that was really like my introduction to dealing with financial planning of any sort really.
Speaker 2:After sort of doing that for a while it was very much product selling, which you know I'm not gonna I'm gonna avoid the good and the bad on that politics. But then when I joined Foster De Novo, that was going to avoid the good and the bad on that. It's like politics. But then when I joined Foster De Novo, that was really sort of the entry into like holistic financial planning, really sort of digging into tax estate planning and really meaningful planning for clients overall, if I'm honest with you. So where I'm at now, I've built the business. It's grown year on year fairly aggressively sort of half a million in turnover, and I think where I am now is a really good place to be, to be honest with you and the future really looks very bright. I've built a really good team underneath me to help support Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Let's get stuck into it then.
Speaker 2:So first off though actually I'm going to ask you a question about product sales. Right, you talked about product sales and then financial planning Two separate things. For you that you've experienced both sides of it. For someone listening right now who might be going well, what's he on about? What's the difference necessarily have? You're not looking at the abreast of products and services available across the financial landscape, so you're really tied to the provider that you're dealing with. So there are a lot of networks where you can only deal with. You know, for example I don't know an aviva pension. That's the only thing that you can sell and that's the only thing that you can advise on. So you can really only advise on the products that the company you work for is providing you, whereas financial planning is more about looking holistically, having access to, being able to look over the market and build solutions that are truly custom for a client, based on like objectives or where they're trying to go in life okay, great.
Speaker 1:So that's a great explanation. Thanks so much for that. I think that'll just kind of clear a few things up with people. So, moving from that kind of what you suggested to be like product sales and then moving into Foster De Novo, tell us about your first year there at Foster De Novo. Was that tough?
Speaker 2:So when I was selling products as opposed to what I'm doing now, it was very much month one. I was in the green, so you were able to process business a lot quicker because you've got less things to check, because you're only selling the one product or the provider. I should say the first year was a real adjustment and it was really. It was hard on. A few things was hard on, I think a few things. One one was ego, myself getting in the way, and the second was really having to transition my mind away from I'm selling something where the product fees that you know the client pays pays me, versus actually having to charge for the advice that I'm giving, irrespective of what product happens.
Speaker 2:And and I think that was the biggest mindset shift that I had to really understand and go through and it took a while, it took a lot of practice, it took a lot of really honing into where did that meeting go right? Where did it go wrong? Where did I lose a client? What went really well? And really learning and taking on people that were a lot further ahead of me really looking at okay, okay, well, what are they doing? How are they doing it? How are they saying it. Why do they say it like that? What does that actually mean? And then reincorporating it into my own approach, great, so quite uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Then that first year, massively, were you self-employed? Yeah, okay, right. So that pressure upon you also being self-employed to be able to develop business when you're used to the product sale, right and that's going to bring you some income in nice and quick, whereas this is took a lot longer yeah, the processes are a lot longer because there's a lot more to check, there's a lot more regulation that you have to get through.
Speaker 2:And I think the other thing to consider is when you're working with a product provider where you're selling the product, a lot of the administration or power planning is sort of built into the the provider. So there's less things that you. So you almost step into this world and you don't really know what you don't know. So, starting from day one, it was a bit of a shock where I'm like oh, I've got to pay for admin, I've got to pay for power planning, and when you've got no clients and no revenue coming in and you've, all of a sudden you've got these quite, quite large overheads, it gets. It gets a lot.
Speaker 2:And I think the the big thing was where I was before in. I was fairly good at what I did, so went from sort of high flying, doing really well, and then, coming into this world, there was a big knock to the ego because you couldn't get up and running as quick. It didn't matter how good you were you, you had to learn the process. You really have to get the rhythm and the pace right, because when you're selling a product, the sales, the onboarding, everything's well streamlined, whereas when you're doing more holistic financial planning, the it's really not. So you have to really learn how to balance where you spend time, because you could go out and book, say, 50 first client meetings, but if you try to take them all on it you'd break.
Speaker 2:So I think it was really understanding how, what was the? Looking at the Foster-Denova and going, okay, well, how does business get processed? What's the actual steps that it all goes for? And then learning how to, on the front end, gear everything so that it's a smooth transition. I think that would have been one of the areas I invested more time in because me being me, thought you know, if I just go out and get clients and clients and clients, everything else will take care of itself. But I think the biggest transition when I went from product sales into Foster DeNovo and building the practice that I've built is you really have to pay attention to the business. You're actually more of a business owner, whereas when I was self-employed prior it wasn't really a business.
Speaker 1:It was all depending on me just going out and meeting clients and getting getting business through the door yeah, okay, cool now coming into foster today, though, within that first year, like you said, it was a bit of a baptism of fire. You probably thought, well, I'm the kiddie, I can walk in here and I can do this, no problem, because I did it quite, did it very successfully previously, right, in the wealth management company that you're in, it sounds to me like you quickly had a bit of a baptism of fire, a bit of a humbling. Yeah, right, what did you do, though, in that year? You mentioned about like the ecosystem and having people to lean into. Can you tell us a little bit, a bit more about that? How important was the actual environment you were in and the people?
Speaker 2:within it. I was pivotal because without the support that I ended up managing to get from foster the novo only by which only come from walking the walk, doing the doing, but also building and cultivating relationships with the right people, um, but one of the first things that I did was, you know, foster, foster De Novo's got they've got offices all over the UK. So one of the first things I did is I found out who were the top practices operating across Foster De Novo. I booked time with them to just go. Okay, can I sit in your meetings? Can you just walk me through? How would you?
Speaker 2:How do you introduce X, y and Z? How do you? What's your first 10 minutes of meeting? Look like really leaning into the, the, the words that they were using, because it was, it was a different world to me coming into this, um, so I think leaning on, you know there are people like dave stockdale, matthew mitton, you know I could name loads of people that I've sat with over the years andy robertson who have dramatically helped me understand how to do what it is that we actually do.
Speaker 1:You mentioned there about the stockbroking and the product sales side of it. Okay, transitioning into true financial planning with Foster De Novo, are you grateful that you had that experience previously coming in? Did it give you a leg up, if you like, in areas which some individuals might struggle in? Give you a leg up, if you like, in areas which some individuals might struggle in, like building relationships or outreach to, uh, new clients, prospects in client acquisition. Do you feel like that?
Speaker 2:oh, 100, 100 I think coming from stock broken. You have to have a very thick skin. You know you're calling all day, every day, trying to get clients and you're getting a lot of rude words thrown at you, phones hung up, um. So having that background really did help because a lot, of, a lot of rude words thrown at you, phones hung up. So having that background really did help because a lot of this is failing forward, especially your first year. You have to realise that you don't know what you don't know and you're not going to know until you fail forward and learn and get sort of feedback and you can respond. So I think one of the biggest things to do is make sure that the activity levels are high and really make sure that you're getting in front as many people as you can to hone. You know that first year should all be about honing your proposition and honing your knowledge on how to uh, how to position it. You know what you do, yeah okay.
Speaker 1:So let's be realistically here. Right with somebody you're self-employed as a financial planner, were you earning lots of money in that first year?
Speaker 2:no, no, no, not at all. I mean, you know it's like any business you get revenue, come in, you pay your splits, you pay your staff and if there's anything left over, you might be lucky after the taxman takes his piece as well. Um, no, it is very much. I mean, the mentality that I had coming into this is you can earn enough to get by in your first couple of years, but it's all about making sure that you don't sacrifice the short term to get the income by building the wrong kind of client base. So I was very much focused on.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to have hundreds of clients. I wanted to have a more niche approach where I've only got a handful of clients that I'm managing, but the asset pool is bigger and you're adding a lot more value through other areas, and I think that's really well. For me, that's what worked really well, because I was able to build a good pool of assets that I'm overseeing with less people to have to service, to maintain it, and that allowed me really to have the time to hone my own knowledge, my own expertise in other areas to keep pushing the business forward, fantastic.
Speaker 1:So let's just move into that point then. So it was tough in year one, even tough going into year two. Right, and that's a realistic thing to say. You're, you know how long, how many years now you've been here? This is six, I think. So year six. And now you're, you know you're how long, how many years now, you've been here. This is six, I think. So year six. And now you're approaching a 500 000 pound a year turnover for your business what have you got under management?
Speaker 2:uh, just shy of 30 million just shy of 30 million.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, so huge success within that period of time.
Speaker 1:It doesn't happen overnight, it certainly doesn't happen in the first couple of years, but the hard work and the snowball effect, if you like, does take place if you're doing things right and what I'm getting from this is within that year one. It's like put ego aside, lean into those people around you that are doing well, that have got the processes and everything in place. Don't think you can just run in here and just do it. You need to listen, you need to look, you need to build those foundations and start to build upon it, because if you go out and try and win loads of clients, you can be the best relationship builder or salesperson in the whole wide world, but if it's built on bad foundations, you're going to have real, real struggles. So a bit of advice to somebody in their first year probably is that isn't it? It's to focus on the actual foundations of your business. How strong actually is it? Because if you're not building upon that, a plan of what a good outcome looks like you're not designing your life.
Speaker 2:It's being designed for you, and I think if you go out and just take on every single client, the problem that you end up having is if you don't invest in really making sure that you know exactly what your your value is and where you offer value, and if you just take on lots of different clients doing lots of different things, you end up not mastering anything and you end up taking on clients that down the road, problems will occur because the foundations weren't there and you you not not missold, but you end up saying something that isn't quite right or you end up doing something that maybe you shouldn't have done it in that way and you should have looked at it a different way, and you end up missing things, which ultimately dents the relationship.
Speaker 2:Because you know trust it takes ages to build, but it can be gone in an instant, and I think that's really important to make sure that you deliver what you say you're going to deliver and really take the time to try not to worry too much financially, know that you know it is two years of pain, but after two years it will get better, yeah, and really take the time to invest in your knowledge, your skill set and your ability to present. Yeah perfect.
Speaker 1:So what was the turning point then? So there was, obviously there's always a turning point, a tipping point. Right, what was the turning point for you, or the tipping point? Did you do something slightly differently? What worked? Yeah, so I?
Speaker 2:think after the first sort of year, I mean, I went, as I said, I I failed forward.
Speaker 2:I got as much activity as I could to get as much feedback, to go to start tailoring the approach that I have with clients.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that I found worked really well for me was having because it's very if you say to someone, oh, I'm a financial planner, that doesn't really mean anything and it can be so vast what somebody deems financial advice, you'd be surprised. I've had clients ask me about what energy provider they should go with for their, their utilities, honestly. So I think one of the things that I did and you know I didn't, I didn't create this, I didn't, you know, reinvent the wheel I took pieces from people over the over the years or or so that I was there and I created, like um, a four pillar approach to financial planning to help people try to segment in buckets what it is that we actually do. And I found that once I started being able to categorize what we do in buckets, it made it a lot easier for people to understand and go ah, those buckets mean more to me than the other two, or that that's the one that's really important for me, and by doing that, you end up allowing yourself to go. Okay, that's where we need to focus our attention, or educating the client to focus on something else first so kind of establishing where their main concerns are and those buckets were visual aid for the clients who actually articulate that I'm in that category so instead of
Speaker 1:their brain being so scattered, which is quite interesting. What you said about the um someone thinking about their energy bills, that's really important. You know, people actually lives in people's heads. It doesn't mind a lot I'm not very super organized when it comes to the house stuff, so that lives in my head if I don't do something about it, if I'm not budgeting for it, if I'm not doing my research and making sure I'm not paying too much over there or over here. So it does kind of live in people's heads. But if you can visualize something, if I can visualize it, if very quickly categorize that emotion within that area of concern for me or whatever, and you can pull it out of me.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be a lot easier for me to deal with. Tell us about these four pillars then. So what are the four pillars? So the four pillars of financial planning are cash flow forecasting. Which or how much detail do you want me to go into? Just keep it kind of top level, okay. So pillar one is cash flow forecasting, which is using various softwares to plan out someone's life, look at the different events that bring money in, take money out and almost stress test different scenarios so that you can identify where the weak areas or where the risks are in someone's plan and that you can then advise on how to protect against it or to overcome any shortfalls.
Speaker 2:Pillar two is like a financial asset review and strategic optimization, so that's looking at the existing assets that a client has and not looking at performance and cost only, but looking at the, the wrapper and the suitability of the product and and establishing whether that's the right vehicle to have. And strategic optimization is really looking at what allowances do they have and what's the most tax efficient way of utilizing those allowances. And then pillar three is bloodline and protection planning. So God forbid you die, making sure that the money you have goes to the people that you want to get it at the time they want to have it for the purposes they want to use it for, and looking at creating protective trust frameworks to prevent wealth cascading out of the bloodline.
Speaker 2:And then pillar four is money management. It's well, now you know, sort of the modeling that you're looking at. Now you know the products that you should be using and now we know how we're utilizing allowances and we're protecting in trusts. Um, then it comes down to what do we actually do with the money in the products, how do we invest the money? And it's crafting the right approach for a client, and there's lots of different ways to go about it, but generally speaking, they they're the sort of headline headliners.
Speaker 1:Do you tend to find as well that someone might gravitate towards one of those pillars over the other? Is there any set kind of process to it when you do it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know everybody seems to like the idea of saving tax and everybody thinks that it's all about investments what funds are the best and how do I build this portfolio and how do I get that return and everybody wants 20% return and isn't prepared to risk a percent of downside to get it. So I think most people gravitate to the idea of the money management and the tax planning side, so like pillar two and pillar four. But what you often find, if you do the job right and you educate people throughout the process, is that they actually start to go. Oh no, do you know what? It makes more sense to look at pillar one first and pillar two then, pillar three and and pillar four once we have the plan yeah, there's a good time then, really, because you're thinking about visualization.
Speaker 1:I'm visualizing it now. It's a lot easier for me to understand what it is you're actually offering somebody. How did you use that in the actual client acquisition process? Because at that turning point you created the pillars. You use those pillars as a visual aid, for instance, to the clients, and then you're going out to try and win those clients. So you're obviously very good at going out and getting clients. Not everybody is. So give us a bit of an insight into what you did, how you did it, what you do, what's your strategy when it comes to those client acquisitions?
Speaker 2:the strategy in terms of getting the meetings or the strategy when you're in the client meeting, let's meeting escape both of them. Well, I mean, getting clients is or getting meetings is. You know there's lots of different ways and you can. You know, you can create linkedin brands and you can do it slowly, or, you know, one of the things that I preferred to do was to look at the types of clients I wanted to deal with. So I do a lot with lawyers and ship brokers, consultants, and what you often find is a lot of these law firms will have the, the like their lawyers. They'll have a contact list so they'll actually have all the names and numbers on the on the website. And I found in the past, by just being a bit direct and just, you know, calling people and just going look, this is sort of what we do. These are the sort of things I look at with people in other law firms I deal with, and outlining it to somebody in that way helps really to get meetings, because you just get a quick response. You know you get no, because or put the phone down or someone will go yeah, you know, I'll hear you out, and then when you're in the meeting.
Speaker 2:I think you just have to structure it Like, as human beings, we like loops, story loops. So you just have to think about what's my intro, what's the middle and what's the end. So the intro should be very short. You shouldn't be talking too much. Once you've done sort of what do you want to get from today, what's your objectives, making sure that you hear them and make sure that you you craft your words to tick what it is they want. Um, then I normally go into the four pillars. So this is what I actually do. Then I relate back to them and go sort of out of that. Does anything pique your interest? Is there anything that you're like I actually know that's. That's an area I want to really focus on. And again, by just doing that, you keep involved and then just being blunt and going look, this is how it works. Today's are at my cost. If we move forward, it will be a strategy report which I'll charge X for. Or if we go straight into an advice, look at, these are how the fees work.
Speaker 2:And then just making sure that you spend as much time really digging into the person as you can, really getting to know what drives them, why they're here and I think when you first start, it can be very easy to just sell everybody, and sometimes you have to look at it. If someone's not getting it or they're making it very difficult. You have to ask yourself are these actually the right people to take on? Because they're the people that you might sell them, you might convince them to do something, but then down the line you'll just you'll get problems because they weren't invested in what it is that you're actually doing. They were normally just saying yes, for, for example, they've got 15 pensions and they know that you can consolidate them into one. So that's the real reason. They're there not, not really looking at anything else excellent.
Speaker 1:So picking and choosing the clients that you work with is that quite important with you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think you have to have, um, you have to have an idea of who it is you want to deal with in your head and, irrespective of the amount of money that you're dealing with, the type of personality that you're prepared to deal with because, you know, in the short term, it's really simple. You know you just take on money and you think, oh yeah, great, I'll just do a job. But you know you, you have to see these and speak to these people multiple times throughout the year. You, you know I speak to all of my clients multiple times throughout the year. So you have to be very mindful of are these the right types of people? Are they coachable? Are they going to make the job more difficult, or are they invested in what you're actually trying to do?
Speaker 1:Fantastic, these four pillars of well-being right, financial well-being. Essentially, the response that you get from the client should give you an indication as to how invested they are in you as a person and the solutions that you're offering there's a great way to kind of quickly build connection right and it's a. It's a very quick, easy, visual way to categorize where they might be feeling empty or struggling in a certain area.
Speaker 2:So I do like that, especially if you name it. So if you create a process and name it, it helps people like you know, oh, the four pillars, like all of my clients will know what the four pillars are, and I think by just naming it something, it really helps. And I pinched this over the years from dave stockdale initially talked to me about how he segregates what he does, and that's really sort of where I got it from. And again, that's just the benefit of working with a company like foster denova. You you can really lean on key people and they can really help you if you're prepared to listen to the gems that they have to say no, I like it absolutely.
Speaker 1:Processes. You're a process man. Is it something that you religiously do daily? Are you always looking to improve processes? Is financial planning a series of processes?
Speaker 2:Oh, of course. I mean. Processes are really important and it's something that, again, if I was to go back, I would have invested more time in processes, especially when you work with a company and they've got systems. I was a bit arrogant to go well, I don't need to use them. Those systems I want to, as a control freak, track and do everything myself.
Speaker 2:The problem that you then do is you end up duplicating work, you end up causing more work down the line and as your business grows, you're going to have to rely more on those systems. So you have to look at creating the processes that are right with the systems that you have and with your own approach. So you have to look at minimizing. For example, when I first started, I used to always do three meetings before I would try to onboard a client. I very quickly realized you don't need three or four meetings. You can actually do it in two if you are more specific with the types of conversations that you're having with people and you know exactly how to target things a bit better.
Speaker 2:But processes are really important because there's so many things that you need to track. You know there's every day. Tasks are coming in left, right and center. You know you're dealing with, say, 90 people, and you know of those 90 people every day. There's always something, so you're always getting new tasks coming and different tasks will have different deadlines or urgency. So you have to make sure that you're tracking your tasks. You have to make sure that you're tracking your new business, your conversions, as well as just tracking where it is, who's it with what's holding it up, because you're dealing with multiple different providers, different clients different personality types.
Speaker 1:You know it's quite vast, yeah, vast, yeah, absolutely so. You're on your way to 500k turnover. If not doing 500k at the moment, right, let's look at how you get there, because not everybody gets to that level and I don't think it's as simple as just again being on your own smashing out the telephone, getting clients on board, chucking the sausage meat in the sausage machine and at the end comes sausages. Doesn't quite work like that. In between, you need a butcher, right? You need somebody in the middle, don't you? Who's going to be making things happen and keep making sure the process is in place there's only so much that you can do yourself as a financial planner.
Speaker 1:So, being in the ecosystem of foster de novo we've talked about the support you've got from other advisors. You turn your head to the left and the right. There's some really good individuals there. They give up their time to mentor, coach and guide. You've failed in the sense of ford, when it comes to reinventing the wheel. You didn't really need to do it, you know, but you kind of had to do it because you're an experiential learner. By the sounds of things, you had to learn through failure, which is totally cool and understandable. But foster de novo as a company have seen it time and time again, haven't they? They've seen what works, what doesn't work. So tell us a little bit about why that's beneficial if you're self-employed and you come into an ecosystem like foster de novo when it comes to a building processes, but also the opportunity they provide self-employed people to accelerate their business through building a practice underneath the company.
Speaker 2:So I think the support that FD have provided has been invaluable because it was the only way that initially I could get an admin person, get a paraplanner, and then you start learning what works, what doesn't work. And, yeah, I think the main thing that's been beneficial for me is the building of my own practice, and they have supported me endlessly to to try and achieve it. So now I have a practice manager who runs everything for me. She's sort of the gatekeeper between me and crap, if I'm honest with you. So just making sure that what hits my, my desk is what's meant to be dealt with at that point, and then having sort of the admin underneath her who are feeding into her. So she's sort of like the gatekeeper of tracking all of the processes and the systems and the various spreadsheets that we have to manage our day to day. And Foster De Novo have allowed me to do that by just.
Speaker 2:I think your first few years are very the first two years are very challenging. So being able to prove you have to be able to prove yourself, because you have to make sure that you know they're going to invest in you if you're worth investing in, and I think one of the things that really allowed me to to build quickly was I. It was the support that they provided, but it was also the investment into learning the craft. So when I deal with clients, there are a lot of advisors that if you ask the client who is that guy or girl to you, they won't necessarily say they're my financial advisor. They might say, oh, he's my pension guy or she's my pensions woman, or they do my life insurance, and I think that is you end up taking on clients and only dealing with one aspect of their planning. And I think one of the things that really works quite well for me and it and it really come into fruition from year two is when I deal with a client it's you know I'm dealing with everything, not now and it's the protections, the pensions, the investments, the tax planning, the estate planning. So the case sizes are a lot higher per client. So that means if you invest the time in the learning of how to to get it sounds bad to get everything, to deal with everything, and someone can trust you to do that you end up not needing to get as many people because you're you're getting a lot of value for what you're providing a client, but the.
Speaker 2:The support that fd have provided me has been, you know, not just people, but when you're on your own, you've got no one to lean on right. So if something happens or you get a really tricky case, or you you hear about something you're not 100 sure on, you've got no one to fall back on, no one to talk to, no one to consult with, other than maybe a few other business owners or other financial practices which, depending on where they work, will be completely different to what you can do. And I think one of the things that's been really helpful to me is, especially as the business has grown and the types of clients I'm sitting down with it are more complicated and you're getting bigger, more different cases, it's been having people to be able to go and speak to about it and go. Well, oh, I know that you know, for example, dave Stockdale and Andre. They're really good at estate planning. So if I need to go and speak about trust, I'll go to them. If I need to speak about something really technical and specialist, I'll go to Neil Wortham because he you know the guy's knowledge on bonds and estate planning is crazy. So just having people to lean on both from a stewardship of how does this work, what's actually going on here, as well as having the the people that you you can use and pay for to to help build and run your business has been invaluable yeah, I think also as well, having that ecosystem where you can quickly scale um is important.
Speaker 1:I think you know if you're in a business and you're on your own and all of a sudden you're thinking, oh no, now I'm going to need a bloody location, uh, and I've got a higher administrator, do I hire them? Or do I outsource? Or you know how do I? You know I'll pay them, I'll pay them, I got mental them, they got holidays and all that compliance, compliance, everything. So all of a sudden there's like a lot of responsibility when you're running a business and it's your own business. But when you plug and play into something like foster de novo, there's a lot that they can do because all of a sudden you could turn around to like helena, for example, who can find you an administrator or a power planner, or there might be one already in the business, already used to the processes that you can actually lean into.
Speaker 1:You might use them for a percentage of their time you might not need them full full time, so you might sort of lean into it and grow it gradually and grow, and I think taking away those responsibilities and taking away that extra brain power right oh, it's massive it's massive and I think people often think I need to be in control of everything and I need to run my own business and I need to be directly authorized where it's like, well, hang about.
Speaker 1:Do you really need to be doing that or do you need to be doing the thing that you love doing the most, which is maybe sitting down with clients and winning those new client relationships? Um, you touched on your type of client that you're dealing with. Right it? You niche down. It sounds like you're kind of like niching down on a specific type of person right.
Speaker 1:A certain type of client that you're looking for. You mentioned shipbrokers, you mentioned lawyers. It sounds very niche to me. How beneficial has that been to kind of stay in your lane? Do you stay in your lane or is that just a process that you follow to open up other doors and other opportunities? You know, whereas I'm a firm believer that niching down works, I niche down with financial planners.
Speaker 2:this worked a treat for me yeah, I think niching down I mean for me it's work it's been invaluable. But again, because you then become known and when you work in a specific field for example, if you're always going to this one company or this one law firm and you're always seeing different people there, people start to know you and you become the guy that deals with that that company and you get a bit of a reputation and then from that become come loads of referrals. So niching down for me has been pivotal because as well then you're dealing with the same stuff all the time and you become a master at it. So I've only now recently, over the last 12 months, started really branching out into different areas other than that. Prior to that it was always very much the foundations, protections, pensions, investments, and then, once you've done is and general investments, you start looking at maybe vcts or eis or offshore bonds.
Speaker 2:But you know, I always try to make sure that if you're taking on the same types of clients you get very good at understanding what it is they actually want, because you hear so many different people say the same things in different words that it allows you to. You know, I'm sure you've heard the saying if you can describe someone's or articulate someone's problem to them, they will naturally assume you have a solution. So by speaking to the same types of people who have the same objectives, that are in the same boat, earning the same amount of money under the same company structure, and you you go oh well, oh yeah, you deal with that pension provider, don't you? And you? It just builds a lot of trust, credibility, and from that you'll master what it is that you actually do and that will give you the confidence to then start going and doing more uncomfortable areas, because you know that. You know you've got this piece on lock, so now you can start branching out and going.
Speaker 2:Well, how does trust actually work? How can I use, can I use trust? Is this something that I should be doing for every client? And again, all you're then doing is you go out, you learn something, you understand its value, you bring it back and you add value to what it is that you're doing and the proposition that you have for clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you ask 100 solicitors what their pain points are. Right, then you could ask 10. Those 10 probably share very similar pain points. So when you then go on to your next 10 that you approach, you've already got 10 case studies, examples, the problems that they experience, the pains that they have, the the things that they enjoy and more often than not it's quite similar person to person yeah so when you're able to actually identify that within a specific niche, you're able then to very quickly have confidence.
Speaker 1:When you sit down with somebody else to ask the questions, those discovery questions, they're going to give you the answers you want, so you can start to lead the conversation without the feeling of like you have to understand everything about them because you already know, because you've already done some. Quite simply, what it is is market research. Right? It's a bit like me, right? I? 16 years of asking different people in financial planning what they like and what they dislike. You know as simple, as simple as that, and I've now gone into a financial planning firm, into a leadership team.
Speaker 1:They haven't seen behind the scenes of the market they didn't understand what other financial planning companies are doing outside of what they see on linkedin, for example, but I do, so I can very, very quickly go right. I know that 20 companies out there having a huge success because they've got a specific career framework that looks like this now I'm identifying within the business we've got at the moment that that career framework doesn't look attractive to me, so we need to change it. And these are the reasons why we need to change it, because I know the success that's been had externally with other companies. 100 powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's valuable.
Speaker 1:You become an expert that's it you become the go-to person, the key person of influence, the one that someone will turn to and also recommend and refer yeah, within that circle and that's it, it's the, it's the referrals and the recommendations, because you end up build.
Speaker 2:You know the city's small, it's a small place, especially when you're moving in certain circles, like the ship broken community. It's very niche, it's very, very small. You know they all know each other, they all talk as well as lawyers. So when you start sitting down with multiple people, you start to build a bit of a name for yourself and a reputation. So and that again there's a transference of trust because they'll sit down and you, oh, you deal with so and so at that company and and that partner at this company. I know both of them and you can it, just it really nothing but helps what I like about that as well.
Speaker 1:It's like the b2b to b2c model. So it technically is b2b, right, you know you're going into people that are quite busy professionals within a business, a profession such as law, right, so technically it feels like b2b. You're not. You know, yes, you want to turn them into your customer, but it is b2b. Um, it's not like you're going out to the mass audience talking about life cover because they've just bought a house right, and that's different.
Speaker 1:But the benefit of that as well is that if you can bring those individuals on as clients and they will have access to their clients that then they could refer you into their clients. Well, you know, if you're doing a good job for me, then you're going to do a job for my clients and I think, bigger picture, that's an amazing way to build a business because all of a sudden, when that, let's say, for example, you go out and have 50 clients and they're all solicitors, let's say one, two, three years down the line, they're going to know you so well enough that they're going to refer you in. They might not refer somebody into you, you know, in six months or 12 months, but they bloody will later on down the line and they get to know you, and that's when this type of business just explodes that's it and that's what I would do if I.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm again like going into a financial planning company that's I've seen that that works. Um, I'm building out a podcast for the company that I'm joining and they're like well, we need some more clients on board, right? No, we need more partners on board. Let's go and find somebody who will refer their clients onto us, but let's market them yeah because they've got products or they've got a service that our clients need as well.
Speaker 1:So if we can help them yeah, get in front of our clients then sure they're probably going to pass their clients on to us when needed and when required. I love that. Where can I go and find a thousand clients through one person? That's my mindset.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. It's crucial and I think you know I've had lawyers refer me clients and I think when you get that, it's I mean we were speaking before, it's I mean we were speaking before like that it's like the validation. That's when I think you really know that you're doing good by people, because people are willing to refer you to, like their mum or their clients, people that are really important and trusted most. That that's more. I know it sounds crazy. That's more important than them coming on board because, for example, I would sooner give you my money but I wouldn't let you have my mum's money. You know, it's like that transference of trust is really important and the reputation you build is equally the most important thing, because that's all we've got right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all about trust absolutely working within financial planning running your own business. It's stressful um it can take its toll on your personal well-being, your mental health. It's hard um any advice to anybody you've. You know you've opened up to me quite honestly that you at times you found things quite tough right but what do you do or what advice could you give to somebody else to be able to look after themselves, to be able to perform at a higher level?
Speaker 2:I think discipline is extremely important. So making sure that for me I have to train, like mentally and physically I need to, I need to sweat, I need to move weight around, because I find that that kickstarts everything. So I do a lot of journaling, I do a lot of um. I'm always looking at personal development. So whether it's an audible or whether it's a book I'm reading and I think I've been very fortunate that my family are a big support network for me. As a Greek man, I've got a lot of family, but my brothers and my sister and my mum and my dad they're very growth-minded individuals. So I'm very lucky that I've got that support network to go and talk to and we have really deep, challenging conversations.
Speaker 2:But I think if you don't necessarily have that or you haven't got the network to be able to leverage that, I think investing in your mind is the most important thing. You know, listening to brian tracy or listening to um different I mean, I could name you loads but different sales people or different um, I think mine mindset coaches. I suppose it's more about just making sure that you're constantly doing little things that give you wins, that build your confidence, because every time you do something and you deliver on what it is that you say you're going to do. It's build your confidence and I think, just really making sure that you know the first two years were dark, although there were, there were some really low points and I think being able to just take control by taking control of the disciplines I instill in myself really helped me navigate and it really helped bring this into fruition.
Speaker 2:So I think making sure that you're disciplined in whether it's training or whether it's you know running or whether it's I don't know something personally for me I need to move. So I think training journaling has been big, very important, and just having some time to study so whether that's something that's conducive to the calls right. So if you need to get better at presenting, negotiating, selling, then spending some time every week where you just allocate an hour to learn about it. You know it compounds those. Those, those hours add up over the course of the year and that's how you get your reps in yeah, self self-reflection, self-development.
Speaker 1:Um, and one thing you said there which I think is hugely important having a support network around you, people you can talk to. People are going to listen to you, somebody that can give you perspective. And it's not always somebody who works within the business. It could be people outside of that, it could be your family. You know having those people. If you haven't got it, then go and find that tribe of people.
Speaker 2:You have to elevate your network.
Speaker 1:You have to elevate your network. Surround yourself with the people that that inspire you. They want to be with you. Um, I've experienced it recently, like moving from one my own business, that it was no longer really serving me. It was it was holding me back and it was. It was sad. It was no longer really serving me.
Speaker 2:It was it was holding me back and it was.
Speaker 1:It was sad, it was, it was really holding me back. But when I left that told it and moved into a new environment, it was like I could breathe and I was breathing into an environment where I was surrounded by people that felt the same way that I, didn't think the same way that I did and were further on the journey and all of a sudden it was like I breathed into a much bigger room and I was excited and I was energized by it. But that's because of the people that I'm now surrounding myself with and I'm reflecting enough and I'm willing enough and I'm remaining teachable enough that I'm pushing forward and I'm enjoying it and I'm excited by it.
Speaker 1:I think you have to step out, you have to talk to people, you have to look for perspective and I think it starts with self-reflection journaling and then it starts with personal development and talking and listening yeah, you have to hold yourself accountable as well.
Speaker 2:If no one else and that's one thing of having people around you if they're good people, they'll hold you accountable. Yeah, to the standards and the, the actions that you talk about. Yeah, and if you haven't got that, you have to hold yourself accountable, because if you don't, no one else will. So I find that the journaling allows you to do that, like the reflection and just asking yourself a few questions consistently. You get data and the data allows you to go well, this isn't working.
Speaker 1:This is working when I was running my own business, I never had anybody to check in with um, and since I've now joined I can. You're aware, I've joined hoxton, but each week I have to do a loom, right, and they call it fear of the loom. So each friday you've got to go like, oh god, I'll do a 15 minute loom to chris, who's who's the ceo of the business, and everyone in the leadership team has to do it. But actually I find it so therapeutic because what I do before the loom is I write everything down.
Speaker 1:Now I am somebody when I start writing I don't stop it's like and then I start putting it into boxes and organizing everything and all of a sudden I'm looking at it as an inventory of all the things I've done well, things I'm working on, things I need to need to work on, things I'm worried about, like fearful of, or whatever conversations I want to have that maybe I'm not having. And then I present all that back in a loom and then I have a meeting on the monday where we go back over and put action points there wicked I've never had that right and people call it fear of the loom.
Speaker 1:Now, for me, it's like. It's like you're checking your weekly checking. I love it. I love it and this is the thing that you need to understand. Right, you can be on your own running your own business, but it's very, very lonely and you don't get that type of thing. Right now, when I go, when I've gone into another ecosystem, like you have with foster denova, right, you go into an ecosystem. There are people there that are willing and wanting to give you that accountability. Yeah, and like, I think accountability, as you just said a second ago, huge. It's so powerful for personal development and growth.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And if you haven't got it, go and find somebody, whether it's a life coach, whether it's a business coach. Go and lean into that, because it adds a huge amount of value to your life. You're only going to learn by writing down the things that are going on in your head and gaining some perspective, taking ownership of it and pushing forward and making change 100% and you'll also learn much more about yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because if you're constantly saying you're going to do something and then the data, the journaling is showing you I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2:I'm not doing that, you'll start, because a lot of us, we live lives and we just have this like warped reality of what we think with what, what you think you're like. Most people don't really know themselves and they think better or worse sometimes of themselves in certain aspects of their life. Yeah, and I think that by just making certain notes and tracking what you say you're going to do, or different um disciplines or whatever it is, you start to really learn actually, do I keep my word? Do I, do I deliver on what I say? I'm going to deliver, or am I a bit guilty of not doing that? Because you can change right and that's the most important thing you have to know what you're actually like as a person. And if you ask I don't know five people that are really close to you ask them questions about yourself, like do you think I'm a good communicator or where do you think I could improve, and you start getting different answers, you'll be surprised at what people think of you if they're willing to be honest.
Speaker 1:That is. That's the thing, again, finding those people that have got the courage to be honest with you because you can be honest with them back and again. Find those people. Keep a hold of them. They could be friends, they could be family, they could be acquaintances. They could be somebody that works in a completely different company to you, right I call them mirrors mirrors.
Speaker 2:That's what my brother is my brother. Always, every time I look at my brother, it's like holding up the mirror. Yeah, so if you, if you're ever, if ever, I've, if ever, I don't know I've said I'm gonna like go to the gym. I've not gone to the gym. As soon as I see him, I instantly go. I should have gone to the. I didn't, I didn't. I feel the need to like justify almost yeah yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2:But I think when you have a mirror, someone that holds you accountable, it helps you push, but it helps you get further in life that's david goggins.
Speaker 1:He's got the accountability mirror, isn't he, david goggins? Oh, goggins, right, brilliant, listen. I talked to you all day long, nicole. It's been really great to hear about your career journey and the success you've had and the support you're getting here at foster De Novo. What a fantastic company to get. You obviously are also a very disciplined individual, so a lot of this is down to do with you, but, as we said, it is also who you surround yourself with oh 100%.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be half as far as I am now without a firm like Foster De Novo behind me.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, brilliant Nikos, great stuff. I wish you all the success in the future.
Speaker 2:Cheers.
