Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Academy - start your career today!
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
What A Paraplanning Manager Does And How To Get Ahead In Your Paraplanner Career.
🤔 Are Paraplanning Managers Holding Back Trainee Financial Planners?
Not at Foster Denovo, where growth, ambition, and clear career aspirations take center stage. In the latest Financial Planner Life Podcast, I spoke with Louise Headifen, Paraplanning Manager at Foster Denovo, about how she’s breaking the mold and championing career progression for her team of 15. Whether it’s becoming a financial adviser, developing a specialist career in paraplanning, or exploring other paths, Louise and Foster Denovo’s career framework have it covered.
🎙 Key Takeaway:
"If you tell me in the interview you want to become a financial adviser, I’ll do everything I can to make it happen. Progression is about honesty, ambition, and having the right support system." - Louise Headifen
We dive into:
✅ Why Louise hires for skills over job titles to build strong, cohesive teams.
✅ Clear pathways for paraplanners to grow, from junior roles to subject matter experts in areas like protection and estate planning.
✅ How Foster Denovo actively supports paraplanners who aspire to transition into financial advice roles.
✅ The power of a growth mindset and how collaboration fuels success.
Whether you’re a paraplanner looking for your next opportunity, a financial adviser exploring new horizons, or someone considering a career in financial planning, this episode offers actionable insights and inspiration.
👉 Tune in now and discover how Louise’s leadership and Foster Denovo’s framework are empowering financial planning professionals to thrive at every stage of their careers.
💬 What’s your career aspiration in financial planning? Let’s discuss in the comments!
Begin your financial planning career journey today
Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or career development.
And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Louise Hedderfen from Foster De Novo. She is a power planning manager looking after 15 in her team and she talks about her career development. She talks about what she looks for when it comes to skills over job title when she grows her power planning team.
Speaker 2:I work very hard, so I do expect the same standards from the team. If you say to me in the interview and I really do like honesty you want to become an advisor, I will do everything I possibly can to facilitate that.
Speaker 1:We talk about power planner to financial planner and why, here at Foster De Novo, they don't hold you back when it comes to career development within the business.
Speaker 2:It was an incredibly steep learning curve, especially when I didn't really do anything with pension transfers and things.
Speaker 1:so You're going to love this episode if you're a career power planner or you're a power planner looking for your next opportunity. Louise, thanks so much for joining me today in London at Foster de Novo to talk about your career within financial planning, specifically power planning, because you're a power planning manager, right, I am? Yes, Well, fantastic. Well, like I say, thank you for taking the time out to share your career journey. I'll say what? Let's kick things off. Introduction who are you? What do you do? How long have you been here? What's going on in your world?
Speaker 2:Well, let's start with a simple place. I started here in July 2020, during the first lockdown, as a paraplanner and from there, I guess, just built on my knowledge, what I did, what I could do, inspiring relationships with other paraplanners and advisors. I was made up to team leader and from there again, obviously, fosters and Overy saw something in me and they thought, hello, we'll stick a manager in that job title and I have loved every minute of it so far. It's been hugely challenging, it's been hard work, but it's been really enjoyable and, as I said, I've loved every minute of it.
Speaker 1:Very typically Foster De Novo to push somebody forward in their career. It's definitely a career of of growth. Here at Foster de Novo, everyone I speak to seems to be stepping up or moving forward or developing their skill sets as the business grows, with their investment and their huge ambitions of being, you know, a leader within financial planning. It's definitely that that environment, if somebody wants to push forward, were you a manager beforehand. Then did you do any kind of management at all?
Speaker 2:no, um, I've had responsibility for things, um, like getting involved in project work. So there's one firm I was with where we um looked at our client documentation and we discovered that we had umpteen amounts of different bits of paper for different types of business. So I put that into a almost it was an excel spreadsheet and I did some vba coding and you could tap in what you needed and it would bring up all of the um documents. So it cut down a lot of time and I knew eventually that would be just. You know, some clever chap in IT would make that disappear and just become part of the fabric of the back office thing, sorry, the back office system. So I've always done things like that. I've always done a mission creep on my uh, my job description, um, because you know I've, I like challenges, I like changing things, I like creativity and um, you know. So that's why I can't just stop with what my job description says ah, so before you joined Foster Day, naver, what?
Speaker 1:where were you? What are you doing then?
Speaker 2:I was predominantly um working for the DFM. So I started in the city of London. So I worked with some of the big investment houses, um and um. Through no fault of my own or his, we um. I had a relationship with me. We split up and I just decided to take some time out. So I did a university degree medieval history and then I got into a firm in Tonbridge Wells um. So they were um, a DFM, but they also did the financial advice and I was on the financial advice side of things and that's where I started to move into um, I suppose the world of the IFA, and I left there in 2016 and um. At the time I was living up in the north and that's where I actually did fall into the IFA world properly and that's when I became a paraplanner on a 100% basis. So it was an incredibly steep learning curve, especially when I've never I didn't really do anything with pension transfers and things, but you know here I am.
Speaker 1:This is it? Well, fantastic. So that transition from DFM into power planning? Yeah, and once you found power planning, did you think, well, this is it, this is where I want to be.
Speaker 2:No, that would be a lie. Okay, I enjoyed it. I like the finding the solution, um, but it wasn't the be all of what I wanted to do. I wanted to mentor people, I wanted to bring people on and, um, I think, with the work that I did with colleagues and things, obviously fd saw in me that I had that potential and that's what we've built on, and at the moment, I kind of mother the team, okay, right, and their welfare is my paramount concern, okay. So, how many people are you managing? I manage 15.
Speaker 1:15 power planners.
Speaker 2:So there's two team leaders and there's nine power planners and we've got three starting. I've got one um that we're going to be recruiting for in scotland okay so, um. So it's a fast growing um. I've got trainees um potentially elsewhere in the business who want to come in so the power planning team isn't slowing down, then really no gosh, no.
Speaker 1:Lots of acquisitions going on, growth going on here at Foster De.
Speaker 2:Nevo. It's incredible the work that's coming in. It's also incredible the quality of the work that's coming out as well, the standards haven't dropped, but yeah, it's a really busy, focused team and the morale is incredibly high Brilliant.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about you as a manager. Then you found your calling in management. It sounded like it was something that you wanted to do and, again, brilliant that Foster De Nevo has seen that within you and encouraged you to move into that position. What would you say your management style is?
Speaker 2:Open and responsive, I would say I'm also. I like I'm quite a fun manager. I work very hard, so I do expect the same standards from the team. But you know I'm famous for putting GIFs on Teams messages. I mean, the other day somebody asked if they could have an addendum checked and I went no, it's a Thursday, you know. So there's a lot, you know, just joking about. But I also encourage people to ask questions. So even if I know the answer to a question, I will put it on the Teams chat just to encourage people who are new, shy, um not so confident with asking in an open forum. So you know, and I'm not scared to get things wrong either.
Speaker 1:So within power planning you often think about. I used to see job adverts. It says I'm looking for a power planner and then the job title would be the same job title every single time. The same job description every single time and over same job description every single time. And over the years I've come to recognise there could be multiple job roles within power planning and they're using the same job title every single time. So within your power planning team, are there sort of multiple jobs? Are there different layers to it? Do you hire at different layers? If so, can you kind of break down what career development looks like, what the different role types are within your power planning team?
Speaker 2:well, if I start at the beginning, because that's where a journey starts, yeah, and we've got our trainee power planners. So, um, inevitably they have have actually come from within foster de novo, um, and they've worked on the admin side of things. So, from their perspective, they have a little bit of knowledge of financial services and it's our role as the team to engender their knowledge, bring them up to be able to write reports on their own. Obviously, at the level that they are at, they're fairly simple from what I would be able to write. The next step up to that is a junior power planner. So they're kind of halfway a third, two thirds of the way through their qualification to be diploma level four qualified and they're getting involved in a little bit more, a lot, lot more technical. They may even and this has happened on the team that they'll have a direct relationship with some advisors.
Speaker 2:From then, once you're qualified or it depends on your experience you become a power planner. Now, this is where you can start thinking I'm just going to be a career power planner, I'm happy where I am, or you're going to start thinking about your specialisms, perhaps even start your charters. So, and then, once again, this is all to do with experience, not necessarily your qualification, but our senior power planners. They are subject matter experts. So you've got that in our team, we've got protection. We've got that in our team, we've got protection. We've got the state planning. Um, we have one guy, james.
Speaker 2:He's absolutely phenomenal when it comes to the technicalities of anything um, but as jack up in the northeast she's our state planning guru. Lucy in um in london is protection. I have Jeremy who deals with really technical way of writing something for a client. He's also I mean, he obviously knows his stuff as well. So and Nilesh, who was an accountant in a former life and so he is absolutely amazing when it comes to knowing how to deal deal with tax. So with that in the team it's people. Just because you're a trainee doesn't mean you can't um, give it um input up.
Speaker 1:You certainly get it coming down because we want everybody's knowledge to be high we want it to be a center of excellence which is turning into fantastic, so everyone learning from each other yes yeah, you can even the roles overlapping slightly, which is what you kind of want.
Speaker 1:Isn't it a clear line of sight to the next um, the next stage in your career, so someone could come in as an administration administrator and work their way up through the power planning team, and it doesn't stop there. So let's say, for example, like you know, there's a lot of power planners there's like 9,000 in the UK, right, and we've obviously got an advice gap In my head. There's quite a lot of people in those power planner roles that are female as well, right, I think 80% of them are female actually. So there's clearly a great opportunity there to get more women into financial advice roles, into financial planning roles. So there seems to be a clear area there, a technically sound. They know what they're doing, they've done the reports and fact finds and all of that. Why not move them into financial planner roles Now, as a power planner manager?
Speaker 2:I encourage it you encourage it?
Speaker 1:yes, well, that's good to hear, because a lot sometimes. Power planners can often be told that they're going to be progressed into financial planners when they want to be, but often because there's such a shortage of them, they're kept in those roles longer than they should no, I mean, from my point of view, is um, whether you're um coming from an internal position or recruiting external.
Speaker 2:If you say to me in the interview and I really do like honesty you want to become an advisor, I will do everything I possibly can to facilitate that. I mean, obviously, the opportunity's got to be there first and foremost, and we do have the academy to train as an advisor. But it's getting on to the academy, isn't it? It's like everything, but I will help. I will position you when I know that there's things going on. I can't say what things are, but I can position you into positions where you're in front of um advisors who absolutely want to bring people on themselves, you know. So the obviously like everything. You want to progress your career. You have to progress your career, but I can do everything I possibly can to to help you fantastic.
Speaker 1:So within that, within that power planning team, you've got the career development in power planning, but entwined within that is the opportunity to move into financial planning is what you're saying and, as a company, they encourage that it's not something you hold people back on.
Speaker 1:And in fact, let's go back to that interview stage, right, because you've just done some interviews recently. So someone's in the meeting and they're saying they're a power planner and they're coming into the business at Foster foster. They know, though, as a power planner, but in the back of their mind they've got aspirations to become a financial planner. You would say, well, tell me that. Yeah, tell me that, because I'm not. It's not going to stop you from getting the job of course it's not.
Speaker 2:It's um. I mean, how um with with the recruitment. I've looked at it. I've looked at that as an individual coming into a team, because that's what you are, you're a person. So um it's. I know I've got career power planners. I know I've got somebody who wants to go into a compliance function. I know somebody who wants to become um, one of our business quality experts. I've got somebody who wants to become an advisor. So if I don't know what people's aspirations are, one, I'm not a good manager. And secondly, how do I help them? How do I speak to other managers and go, oh, have you spoken to xyz? Because I think they'd be quite good in that role?
Speaker 1:you mentioned to me about hiring based on skills and not job title. What do you mean?
Speaker 2:well, a cv tells me what you've done, doesn't tell me who you are and when. Um, with this rapid growth that we're undertaking, it is so important to maintain the culture and the stability of the team as well as the company as a whole. So, um, I have a colleague whose company as well was going into big expansion and they concentrated on getting people in and it's become quite an unhappy environment to work in, shall we say. Whilst, here I've recruited somebody who's got two, three years of planning experience. He's in his early 20s Now.
Speaker 2:With my next recruit, I was in the back of my mind saying I have to get somebody with a bit more experience to counterbalance that. And the lady who's starting up in the northeast absolutely lovely and she fits in wonderfully with the crew up in Newcastle. But also, importantly, you know, she fits in with the team. So it's like a game of chess you move one piece and that affects the balance on the board. And it's really heartening when you see the existing team and they go yeah, that was a really good hire, that one, that was really good, and we really like working with them. You know, and touch wood, I haven't had, I haven't had any issues.
Speaker 1:yet it's all about complimenting, isn't it? Complimenting each other, and that and that's the key thing is recognizing what those skills that individual has that might well be lacking in that team and also within yourself as well.
Speaker 2:Well, this is it. I mean and people might find this shocking but I actually do recruit to replace myself.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea.
Speaker 2:Because I, you know, I mean obviously I'm only 21.
Speaker 1:I've got ages to go yet.
Speaker 2:But you know, there is a retirement plan and you have to be sensible, you have to look forward. I'm working for a company that's moving forward. I want to move forward too. I have a team that I want to bring with me.
Speaker 1:I always made the mistake of hiring people that I felt were like me, like almost like. I was trying to find people like me, and often that was a nightmare, whereas I should have been trying to hire people who were better in areas that I was weak. Um, and now I look for that. You know, I don't need another person next to me who's super creative. I need someone next to me who's super organized and can execute my creativity. You know, because I struggle with operational stuff, I struggle with processes. You know, I live in the, I live in the creative mindset.
Speaker 2:You know, that's where I am and this is why I'm I'm a career power planner manager, because there is a completely different skill set to being an advisor and we both do exactly the same job at the end of the day, which is to give the best advice that we can for the client. Everything is in their best interest. Me and the advisors I work with. We come at the same issue from different angles.
Speaker 1:Have you spent a lot of your time in meetings with financial planners. Is it something you encourage the team to do?
Speaker 2:I have and I do. I mean we haven't been taken up on it recently because of the workload in the team, but it's certainly something that if you needed me to go through a voyant or do a bit more of an admin thing for clients, then I would. That's why he would bring me in um. You know, sometimes you're you're sat in front of a client who will not speak, just give you the basic and if you've got somebody else in there, that it kind of helps to change that dynamic. You know, because then you're starting to look at two people and then um, out of two of you they're going to have a rapport with one of you. You know so and it.
Speaker 2:But it depends on who you, who the client is, who you're sat in front of. You know you don't want to be going to every single one, but um, I mean um. In the previous place I used to um, we, the, the, the advisor I worked with, we had a lot of the older clients, so from the newly retired grey haired teenagers to the unfortunately the end of days, and obviously in that age group people pass away and you'd find whether it's male or female, you know, by just female in the in the room that that they would open up and be able to talk about things yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think that's why we need more women in those meetings with clients, because it's a whole different dynamic. Yeah, I'm doing a podcast at the moment. We're producing one for the pfs. Yeah, um, women in wealth, I think you're going to call it um. It's four women sitting around talking about their careers within financial planning and their perspectives. So I was sort of sat there thinking, oh, I'm looking forward to this. I've interviewed women on my podcast before, but I've never sat and listened to four women talking about it. You know, it's me asking them questions, um, and as soon as I sat back and listened to four women talking about their careers within financial planning and their perspectives and how they bounced, off each other.
Speaker 1:It's completely different. I was like, oh my god, it's like I've been let into some kind of secret club. You know a different perspective. That was what it was and that's what it is.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that's what's needed is more women in leadership roles, talking about what it's like working in the financial planning profession, how they progress through the difficulties and issues that they might have come up against, how they overcame them, the challenges um the perception that they might have had throughout their careers. Um, I think we're talking about menopause and all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2:You know it was a.
Speaker 1:It was a great interesting insight into the career of those that work within the profession. But also they were talking a lot about the clients yeah, how the clients respond to female financial planners, male and female. So look out for that one because it's going to be a fantastic podcast and I hope they continue on with that I mean what's um?
Speaker 2:I mean like my, my dad. Mom and dad are in their late 70s, so my dad's very receptive to um male or female advisor. But you'll find some men a bit older than that really aren't comfortable at all. But when you're in a situation where they're recently widowed, it's amazing how they'll open up to a woman rather than the male advisor. And there's nothing wrong with what the male advisor is doing whatsoever, but it's. It's just that.
Speaker 1:It's just the way the human brain works with the yeah, I can understand that with the male and female it's it's more empathic in that situation and I think I think it would be easier for a guy who's just lost his wife to open up to a woman without a shadow of a doubt. Opening up to another man would be quite difficult, I think you would seek a woman more so than a man see a woman.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've done this myself, I've taken the hand in a in a meeting, just so they can control themselves, you know, and a male advisor perhaps wouldn't have even. Oh my goodness no never have thought that and it's. I am not, I I mean I'm. I do believe in equality and I've. Everybody's got their skill sets, everybody's got a positive and a negative, and you know, I know this is off topic now.
Speaker 1:No, it's fine, it's completely on topic. It's completely on topic. I think you know you're absolutely spot on, because I'm just thinking in my head would I have a woman's hand if she was?
Speaker 2:upset.
Speaker 1:It's strange isn't it.
Speaker 2:It's like you just probably wouldn't so actually a female could hold a woman's hand and a male and a male's hand.
Speaker 1:So actually, I think the dynamic of male and female is always brilliant to have as a exactly a double act when you're in any kind of meeting, because it's again it's perspective, isn't it? It's the exactly yeah, and like exactly the same as well. I think women are quite good at identifying areas where there might be vulnerabilities as well, which is hugely important in any kind of meetings you know, is there financial vulnerabilities. Those are key things as well that are really, really important now in the financial planning meetings.
Speaker 2:Well, in our team meetings we have um two proper ones a week, which is about the workflow and and um how people are dealing with their cases and things, and we have a daft one on a Friday morning afternoon, whenever and I watch everybody closely when they're talking and I will send a message to Martin or David and go can you just drop in and see that they're okay, because sometimes I think if I drop in, it's like, oh my God, the manager's calling why you know, but um, I, I, you, and it's funny, people think that they can hide themselves away on a tv screen, but actually, um, it's, it's just as difficult as in real life.
Speaker 1:I pick up on things like that. Really, I'm quite empathic. I'm kind of like I can, I sense it, like I almost feel it and I can predict things. I think some people have got it like I almost feel it and I can predict things. I think some people have got it and some people haven't. But I think also, as well, as a business owner or manager, you've also got to learn to understand what you can and what you can't do, and then also how to direct people to um sort of to the help that they might need as well.
Speaker 2:You know you can't fix everybody's problems no, you can't, but what you can do is give them the space in order to fix themselves. You know there's people come into work and in fact, a lot of people come in to forget what's going on in their private lives. But sometimes you do get the overspill and if you're aware of it and we do have a very open and honest team it's amazing what your work colleagues will pick up the slack on this one. I'll take that report. Don't worry about that.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's, it's quite powerful yeah, when I was, um, when I ran a recruitment company recruitment is notorious, was always notorious for work, work hard, don't talk about your emotions, type thing. So anyway, I went through a bit troubled time in my life. Um, I do a lot of work with talk club, which the men's mental fitness charity, so we implemented talk clubs into our business and also then I thought, well, what else can I do? Because all I wanted to do when someone's coming in and they were having a tough time, or you know, whether we work or personal whatever, I just wanted to go.
Speaker 1:I could acknowledge exactly how you're feeling because I've been there. I don't want you to feel like I'm not acknowledging it and that what you're feeling is real right now and it is going to affect your work. But I want to create a solution. I want to help you and it's key for me was to be able to very quickly signpost them, take down any barriers that would stop them getting the help that they actually needed, so things like having free counselling sessions. So I'd quickly just put them into a counseling session, put it in front of them.
Speaker 1:It was their choice to do it, yeah, but for me I felt a I was doing the right thing. I was giving them access to help that maybe they wouldn't do, because the costs and you never know, there's problems with money and all of that money, coaches, all that kind of stuff. So it's like what can I give them that will empower them to better themselves? I used to do pting every monday, so to. So I put the solutions in place, signposts to them that I knew that I was doing my job right, and so when it came to those one-to-one meetings and everything, I could always go back and say look, I, we, as a business, we put this in place for you we understand the situation you're in, but what are you doing to help yourself and empower yourself to move past this difficulty in your life?
Speaker 1:or and also create that kind of openness within the business that, if someone has a problem, come forward and talk about it, because you know, don't think you can't open up, because we're here to listen and we want you to be happy eight, nine, ten hours of your life, your day in work.
Speaker 2:You know it's, it's an important, it's an important part and we're I mean, mean, as you know, we've been work colleagues. You mean we know each other not as intimately as um friends and things, but we actually do see um when you're under your most pressurized and um sometimes you're most vulnerable, you know 100 and you're wearing those masks all the time, aren't you?
Speaker 1:you know that can take its toll. Well, listen, thanks so much for joining us here on the financial planner life podcast and talking about your journey here at foster de novo uh, your um career in power planning, and hopefully it's given an insight into people as well as to the team that you're building here. Yes, the opportunity is here for growth. I think that's the key thing. If someone's going to come into your power planning team. You can start an administration you can become a career power planner, but there are also multiple areas that you can move.
Speaker 1:An administration you can become a career power planner, but there are also multiple areas that you can move within financial planning, uh, specifically within foster de novo, and if you want to become a financial planner, you're not going to hold someone back absolutely not going to encourage them great thank you so much for your time today brilliant. Thank you very much, cheers.
