Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Starting a Financial Planning Career at 50 & Writing £400k in Year 1 at Foster Denovo
In this episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast, we’re joined by Marnel Stafford, a financial planner at Foster Denovo, who shares her remarkable story of pivoting into the profession at 50 and making waves in her first year.
💬 "Starting at 50 might seem late to some, but for me, it was the perfect time. My life experience became my greatest strength."
Marnel talks candidly about her journey—why she decided to make the leap, the challenges she faced, and how she’s already on track to hit £400k in her first year. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience, adaptability, and the value of building strong client relationships.
💬 "Clients don’t just want technical knowledge; they want someone who understands their lives. That’s where experience comes in."
Key takeaways from this episode include:
- Why it’s never too late to start a new career: Marnel explains how her age became an asset, helping her connect with clients on a deeper level.
- The mindset for rapid success: She shares how focusing on intentional actions, like building trust and delivering exceptional value, made all the difference.
- Turning challenges into opportunities: Marnel reflects on overcoming self-doubt and using her past experiences to build credibility and confidence.
💬 "It’s not about your age—it’s about showing up, being present, and genuinely caring about the people you serve."
Whether you’re considering a career in financial planning or seeking inspiration for your own journey, Marnel’s story proves that success knows no age limits.
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With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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Today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Marnell Stafford. She is breaking the mould of financial planners. She started her career at 50 years old and already is on target for $400,000 in her first year of being a self-employed financial planner. We look at her own personal experiences around finance divorce.
Speaker 2:I think I can offer women more by being a woman, by having gone through divorce, because you do understand the emotions that goes with it. You do understand the choices that get made.
Speaker 1:And her marketing strategy for building deeper relationships with clients and leaning into the ecosystem of Foster De Novo to generate further client relationships.
Speaker 2:I'm probably at a point where, come on, get your act together. You've got this stuff to do.
Speaker 1:There's assets under management I need to get done because there's targets that I need to reach You're going to love this episode if you're interested in becoming a self-employed financial planner and how companies like Foster De Novo can support you to hit your goals. Marnell, thank you for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm well. How are you? I'm very good, yeah.
Speaker 1:Good, here we are in London. Just came back from Dubai, so flew in yesterday.
Speaker 2:You brought the weather, didn't you?
Speaker 1:I brought the weather International man of mystery. Now, you see, now I'm an international guy, but yeah, from Dubai, which is about feels like 60, apparently, when it comes to the temperature, it was horrendous. What was the weather like when you were in South Africa? Hot.
Speaker 2:Hot, but not as humid as here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it would go up to like 32 degrees, but you can bear it because it's a dry weather.
Speaker 1:There we go, hey, so welcome to England. We're talking about the weather. Thank you, that's what you do.
Speaker 2:That's what you do in England.
Speaker 1:You've got to discuss the weather first off when you meet somebody. First off when you meet. Somebody Got to, but you're here to talk about your financial planning career and what you've achieved so far here at Foster De Novo, which I know has been quite incredible within a very short space of time, but we'll get into that in a minute. First off, though, how did you actually get into the financial planning profession?
Speaker 2:That's an interesting question, because usually the answer is my dad made a bet with me and said hmm, bet you you won't be able to write this exam and pass it, and my dad knows me so well. So while I was in South Africa I said, okay, fine, let's try one of the exams. Had to choose the tax one. So I wrote the exam, got a distinction and thought, whoa, wait a minute, maybe I can do this, maybe I am someone who can do numbers. Always thought throughout my life I can't, don't know what I'm doing, because at school I had this misconception that you need to have maths and accounting to work in finance, which really isn't the truth.
Speaker 2:So that's how it started. It started late in life. I was 45 when we took this bet, so before that I did something completely different. But at that stage I thought, okay, well, let's write this exam. Passed it, did well and thought, okay, well, well, maybe I can do this. And and then continued doing the rest of the financial planning diploma in South Africa. So that's where it started, a little bit later than normal, but yeah so from South Africa to the UK?
Speaker 1:did that transfer the qualifications and experience? Did it transfer across?
Speaker 2:No, I had to start right from the beginning. So when I arrived here I was told that even though I've qualified as a financial advisor in South Africa, I'm not going to be able to be one year without getting the English qualifications. So I started again with all the RO exams, had to redo that. However, it wasn't a bad thing because the terminology in South Africa versus the terminology here is completely different. Even if you're speaking about the same thing, principles are the same, but the terminology was completely different. So doing the exams again was actually not a bad thing. It helped me a lot in understanding the English way and and things you grow up with when you're in a different country.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm used to having inflation rates at 8% 9%, so your return on an investment has to be more than that. Got here, this was just before COVID and it was 2% and I was like you have to completely change your mindset. So it wasn't just the qualification, it was also the mindset. Had to get the mindset on a different level. It was a different approach, but it helped. Redoing the qualification did help with that, but I realized I had to do it really quickly because you know I was how old was I. I think I got my qualification when I was 50. Okay, so I realized that if I really want to still make a career of this, I have to get in there and do it right. So did that in about I'd say, a year.
Speaker 2:Um, while working at foster, donova started in admin. Um, you know you have to start from the the bottom, and that was a good thing. It taught me the processes. The nice thing now is when I work with my team, my admin team, I know what I can expect from them. I understand the processes. I've got an amazing team. They're very close to me, we've all become friends and they almost read my mind Almost.
Speaker 1:So you accelerated through that then with Foster De Novo, because now you are a financial planner. So you know most people that come on the podcast and from Foster De Novo all say the same thing that career development here is pretty damn good yeah. So, you've had that experience here, absolutely Coming from South Africa. That didn't put them off at all. They just said come on in.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so, because it might just be a rumour, but I've been told that people in the UK do like employing South Africans because of our work ethic. And the work ethic comes from, I think, a little bit an American style, and that's based on the fact that working after hours and putting in that extra, extra is almost expected. So it wasn't something new to me, you know. You know it was okay. This is something we need to do. We need to get as much done when we need to do it and if it's after hours, it's after hours. So I got into um admin, yeah, with foster turnover and and, yeah, I've worked hard, worked for a number of financial advisors at the same time doing the exams, but had a lot of support had a lot of support.
Speaker 2:It did help to know that there was going to be a future for me. There was going to be. You know you're doing all of this. Don't worry, when you're done we'll look after you. So that is something that Foster Donova does.
Speaker 1:Really important as well that you know, you hear all the time the average age of a financial advisor is 56 years old in the UK. We need more younger people coming in and it often kind of makes somebody feel, perhaps who's in their 50s or late 40s, that they're too old, that it's all about the young getting young people in now it's not at all like. You know, like experience is so vastly important, uh, in a role like financial planning, because the type of clientele you're dealing with at certain times of their age yeah, and I think you know we're missing the mark a little bit that there are a huge amount of people that are sitting in those late 40s, 50s that transitioning into financial planning would be an amazing career, yes, and to not listen to the kind of negativity surrounding the average age and actually look at it as an opportunity. So you went from admin into financial advice. Did you go straight into self-employed?
Speaker 2:because you obviously be, can be self-employed partner here at foster de novo no, I didn't, um, and I think the main reason was because I've only come over to the UK five years ago. I don't have a network in the UK. You know, everyone here has got the family and the aunts and the uncles and friends and your best friend's parents and you can try and build from that. I didn't have any of that, have any of that, so I had to look internally what can be done. So for the first 12 months I worked with another advisor, learning the ropes, being in the meetings and starting to do the recommendations as well, but not 100% on my own. Then, when I did start going self-employed, I also thought well, you know what this company can probably offer me a bit more than what I think.
Speaker 2:And we have in Foster De Novo a employee benefits arm is called second site, and second site deals with a lot of corporates and the corporate. They set up pensions for corporate clients and part of the package that they offer is to have advice days so you as an employee can then book an hour free advice with financial financial advisor. So I thought, well, maybe I could get involved in that and started doing that, started doing those advice days, because the nice thing is you're sitting in front of someone who already wants to talk about their pension. I mean, you've got a captive audience, use it. So what?
Speaker 2:The agreement with second sight is you do the advice day, you talk about their workplace pension and then, if you can kind of convince them to have another meeting with you and discuss their finances more holistically, then they become your client. So that was a good challenge to have and I've loved it. I've enjoyed it so much. A lot of clients obviously you sit in front that don't have a lot of um savings or in their pension, a little bit younger. So those clients, you know, you try and give as much as you can in that hour because you know that they're not necessarily going to become a client. But it's nice to almost do that pro bono work, if I can call it that. So I do enjoy doing that and that's that was very helpful for me because that's built my network excellent is that built your confidence as well yes yeah
Speaker 1:yes, a lot are you presenting in those uh scenarios and are you to like, groups of people within a company?
Speaker 2:so some of it is presentations where you have a group, some of it is one-to-one, so you'll sit with a client and um, and you sit with someone who is, you know, in a in a admin position perhaps, or you sit with someone who's a partner at a business and you don't necessarily know who you're sitting in front of the day before. So it's a very big variety. But in the one-on-ones it's nice to be able to say well, let's talk about everything you have, not just this pension. And then it's you know, are you married, have you got a partner? Let's talk about everything you have, not just this pension. And then it's you know, are you married? Have you got a partner? Let's talk about what they have, and then you just build up from that. So it's a really good, it was a really good way, or is a really good way, for me to build on a network.
Speaker 1:Smart move as well. Looking internally at Foster De Novo to network internally within the business for opportunities, leaning into other areas, other departments, other sides and services that the business offer. Have you found that to be a useful ecosystem and strategy for you?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think, like I said, you know I didn't know where to go for a network and you know all my life I've been in tourism all my life and had some companies and hotels in South Africa and a lot of sales-type companies where I did consulting and helped with sales and so on. And I thought please don't make me do cold calling. I can't do cold calling. And this was just a question of well, let's look internally what we can do, because we also have a mortgage desk. You know, if someone's working with a client who is looking for a mortgage, that client might need a little bit of financial advice.
Speaker 2:So I sat down with the guys at the mortgage desks and said, guys, let's, let's, you know, see what we can do. If I have a client who needs a mortgage, I come to you. If you have a client who needs investment advice, pension advice, you come to me. And you know you build teams for your client. So when your client comes to see you, they understand that the word holistic is just that little bit more than they might have thought of. So just, you know, coming from a workplace pension, looking after everything else in your investments and, by the way, if you need someone for your mortgage advisor, then great you mentioned hospitality.
Speaker 1:you worked in hospitality was that in south? Yes, yeah, how long were you doing that for?
Speaker 2:Oh, from school. How long was that? For 25 years probably.
Speaker 1:And those skills that you learned within hospitality. Are they transferable into financial planning? Do you think there is a direct correlation between? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I think, because I don't think we always realize that financial advice is, is we have to listen when we say financial services, it's a service, hospitality service driven, and I think I got used to in the in the, the tourism and hospitality industry. You need to think on your feet. You need to deal with problems right then, and then Someone's not happy with something. You have to solve it now and I think it's given me a lot of confidence. It's also people. Tourism industry is all about people. Financial advice is all about people. So you learn a lot of people skills. You know, or I did in that in that arena also, you know, I had, I had a lot of staff, um, so you, you learn how to run a business. You, when you become self-employed as a financial advisor, there are certain things you need to look at. You need to make sure that you understand your income and your expenses. So all of that, I definitely think, brought or helped me to have the confidence to do what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting you would say that. So going self-employed as a financial advisor if someone was listening to this right now and they've never had any experience of running a business before, obviously go for it. But you need the support right, absolutely. Would you say that that experience of running your own business again just allowed you to be confident in your ability to move forward and get stuck in on a self-employed basis?
Speaker 2:So it did. However, because I was self-employed before, completely self-employed it's different when you work with a company like Foster DeNova, and this is, I think, where people need to understand. If you work for a company like this, the support is there. So, yes, I had to learn how to deal with a lot of stuff when I was in the tourism industry, hr, finance, you name it when with Foster de Nova, I thought this is brilliant because I don't have to worry about HR, I don't have to worry about compliance. When I say not worry about it, meaning I've got a department that looks after it on my behalf. I do what I do and they make sure what I'm doing is the right thing. I have my team, but I've got an HR department looking after my team. So that's a bit of a difference. It's very different to working with a company like Foster Donova.
Speaker 1:I think your background and your experience of running your own business and that personal touch of running teams likely helped you develop relationships internally with Foster De Novo. That understanding that different people have different skill sets, different departments do different things and a lot of the time it's all about how you build relationships internally more so than externally. Have a look what's on your doorstep first before you start looking outside of yourself. I think that must have helped you build further relationships. Now give us some other examples of internally. Then at foster de nevo. So you saw an opportunity there with second sight corporate advice. I mean, that's huge, that opportunity moving forward anyway, isn't it foster de nevo investing quite heavily in that, and rightfully so? I think they've got an app coming out which sounds really super interesting and it'll help you develop more relationships, no doubt. What other areas have you sort of developed? Because you said you don't like cold calling, right? So you must be thinking who can I lean into within the business to help me? What else have you been up to?
Speaker 2:I think it's. You know the experience of other financial advisors. It's really good to tap in and speak to colleagues and say what is it that you've done? That's that's made you successful, what's what's helped you to get where you are? Um, it's also, you know there's there's a management team who deals with the company and you can fall back on them and say I just need a soundboard, I need to just need to see if the way I'm going with my business is is the right way.
Speaker 2:Um, being in my 50s, I need to. I need to look at an exit strategy at some stage. Um, you know I work quite hard at the moment because I know I realize I've only got about 10-15 years left. So I work a little different to the younger advisors, um, because I think they've got they've got this perception that there's a lot of time left for them to still do this, which it is. But in my case, I need to really make sure that I do as much as possible now.
Speaker 2:So it's really good to sit down. I've sat down with Roger, our CEO, and we spoke about you know what's going to happen when I get to that point. What is it that I want to do? So, yes, it's good to talk to a lot of people around you and just see that you're on the right track, getting more business, like I said, the mortgage desk, the employee benefits there's a team that works just with general insurance, so it's looking around and saying wait a minute, I don't have to go and cold call on LinkedIn, and you know that kind of thing. Because I can't have to go and cold call on LinkedIn, and you know that kind of thing because I can't think of anything worse at the moment.
Speaker 1:The wider team, though, in here, obviously, you've got proven experience as well, so you may as well lean into that proven experience. Brilliant that you get the chance to sit down with Roger. I sat down with him. What a great guy, so I could imagine he could add some serious value. Absolutely, I always find that so beneficial. I think it gets overlooked sometimes when you join a business whether you're employed or self-employed is who are you reporting into and are they keeping you accountable, and are you getting any coaching or advice or mentorship from those people? And I often factor that now into any kind of employment package so it's like you know that is part of your package is that.
Speaker 1:Do you have access to people that know more than you, and is it going to have an impact on you and your business and your overall earning potential? Now you don't look like you're in your 50s, by the way. I'm just saying that just to flatter you. Um, genuinely um, and there's perception, I suppose, of people that they're slowing down when they're, you know, because the old 65 is when I retire. Are you slowing down? Are you somebody that because you said you've got a really strong work ethic and yeah, no, no, I'm probably accelerating right I'm probably at a point where come on, get your act together.
Speaker 2:You've got to. You've got to this, this stuff to do. There's assets under management. I need to get done because there's targets, um, that I need to reach. So I've set out targets. You put down your 10-year target, your five-year target, your one-year target what am I doing in the next week? And once you break it down, it becomes achievable. And if it's achievable, it's really just a question of just get it done and sometimes it takes a little longer if it's achievable.
Speaker 2:it's really just a question of just get it done, and sometimes it takes a little longer. Sometimes you get some you know hurdles you have to cross, and that's fine. You just have to put your head down and make sure you're doing what you need to do. I probably look at the next couple of years to really, really you know, in weekends, after hours, whatever the case might be until I can build on a, on a nice income where I can say, okay, I can slow down a little bit, but I don't see myself slowing down at all at the moment. There's there's nothing that needs to. You know there's too much to need to be done.
Speaker 1:Do you enjoy it as well, though?
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely love it, love helping people, love sitting in front of someone. And I mean I've had a couple of clients where they've been really insecure maybe some debt involved and you just sit down and say, well, it's not as bad as you think it is, let's just break it down, let's just put a plan together. And I mean I've had one of two of them in tears because money is emotional. You know, um, people think it's money, money is a piece of paper. No, it's not. It's emotional and it comes from your childhood.
Speaker 2:Um, I did a financial coaching course as well and it was strongly identified that the money habits we have now we probably picked up when we were seven or eight and the things our parents did. That's where it comes from. So it's lovely sitting in front of a client and being able to say you know they end the meeting by saying I understand it for the first time or words like I really trust you to look after me, and I think that's the job satisfaction and that's definitely what keeps me going as well. They're not all great.
Speaker 2:Some of them is like no, I know what I'm doing, I don't need you, fine yeah fine, if that's how you feel, then I'm not gonna beg you to come and be my client, because we also. Sometimes, when you start out new, you think you have to sign every single client. You see, but you don't.
Speaker 1:If they're not a fit, it's not worth it it's going to cause you more stress in the long term absolutely touching on that coaching, then yes, something you did when you moved to the UK.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did it recently, last couple of years.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell us a little bit about that, then. Who did you do it with and did it have an impact?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I did it with Catherine Morgan.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And she's taken a very psychological approach to it, which is great because, like I said, money is all about emotion and it is about the experiences you've had. People go through life stages. It changes them, go through divorce. Divorce changed me a lot. Divorce is probably one of the reasons I am where I am today, being in England, having built up a whole career in South Africa businesses and lost everything through divorce and had to start again, and that has an impact on you.
Speaker 2:So, life stages, life cycles, you kind of need to gear yourself a little bit with knowledge of, if someone's sitting in front of you and they really have money anxiety, how can you deal with it? You know, is there, is there an approach you can take? Or do you then say, look, this is more than me, I need you to see someone else who can help you with that anxiety? So it's, it's really a question of the coaching. The coaching was, or the, the training on the coaching was eye-opening, absolutely eye-opening, because we forget. We forget that money is all about emotion and drawing upon your own personal experiences.
Speaker 1:You mentioned there about divorce. It's a highly emotional, challenging time, right? Yes, not just the divorce itself, but the build-up to it, the idea that, oh my god, I might have to get divorced or I want to leave this person. What am I going to do financially? And I wonder how many people stay in a relationship that's not good for them because of the anxiety around the money side of it, especially if you're not the person that's been running the finances. For example, my brother's going through a divorce, sadly, at the moment, and it's tough for him. He's on the receiving end of being cheated on, which is never nice.
Speaker 2:No, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's horrendous and there was a lot of money involved. Amicably, it's been taken care of, which is good. I think he's had quite a. He hasn't got to that stage yet, but so far so good. He's lucky. He's lucky, he's lucky.
Speaker 2:It took me two and a half years to round up my divorce. Was it Because of money, because of money, because. Of money.
Speaker 1:I've had Kerry Griffith on the podcast. I don't know if you know who kerry griffith is, but she is a divorce financial planning specialist specializing and niching down on women divorcing multi-millionaire ceos yeah, um, and often the types of scenarios that are that happen at that level. Yes, sounds really niche, but as you look at that niche, um, it opens up as well because not only with is there sort of there's divorce counseling specialists at that level when you're dealing with lots and lots of money. There's lots of other people within that space that she then connects with and she's kind of established herself as a bit of a key person of influence. Has your personal experience of divorce helped you to develop deeper client relationships and do you focus more on women over men?
Speaker 2:Do I focus more on women? I think I can offer women more by being a woman, by having gone through divorce, because you do understand the emotions that goes with it. You do understand the choices that gets made and why you know it's a lot of time the wife or the woman will say okay, finally, as long as I can have the house so my kids can carry on living in the house. It's not always the best way of dealing with it, um, because it's nice to have a roof over your head, but who's going to buy the food? You know so. And that's when things get a little bit messy and you you have to go in and say, well, let's look at the pensions, because you've never worked, so you've never really contributed to a pension. So it's great to have the house, but what's going to happen when the kids leave the house? How are you going to live? So it's those kind of questions.
Speaker 2:I think that a financial advisor brings to the table a little bit more than a solicitor. A solicitor might just say, well, in total value, let's get you the most we can get you. But if you break it down into you can almost call it asset classes, you know, then it changes, and I think that's where financial advisors definitely need to get involved in divorce. As far as women is concerned, if you're going through divorce, you want nothing to do with a man. Unfortunately, you're going through a divorce.
Speaker 2:You hate men. At that stage, it is what it is. How are you going to trust a male financial advisor to come in and tell you what to do? So that's the kind of approach I think in my mind, I have to. It is to say, well, as a woman a little bit older, with the unfortunate experience behind me as well, but coming in and saying you know what, I know what you're going through, trust me, I'll help you. A lot of women, would you know? I've spoken to come to me and say can't stand my financial advisor because he talks down to me, he thinks I don't know what. I've spoken to come to me and say I can't stand my financial advisor because he talks down to me, thinks I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a CEO of a company. I think to myself okay, boys, what are you doing? But it's an opportunity, it's a huge opportunity and with so few female financial advisors in the UK, you it's. It's.
Speaker 1:It's huge opportunity huge opportunity and I think, um drawing upon your experiences of going through divorce and the impact that had on you financially is your story absolutely and that's relatable and that's the story you should talk about, because if you talk about that story, people will come to you because they'll identify with what you went through. You're identifying with all the pains that they're feeling in the beginning, during and after because it doesn't just stop, does it and that will then make them feel comfortable enough to then approach you and talk about what they need to be thinking about, what they need to be preparing for when it comes to divorce. I think that's where Kerry Griffiths has made such a great impact is because she has positioned herself as being a divorce expert. Yep.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a huge area, huge area, huge. Most you know what is it. One in two relationships end in divorce. We've got 53% of all millionaires are going to be female. That's what they reckon. Yeah, as you've said, way more female ceos and in leadership positions, not so much in the financial planning profession, but there is at foster de novo, 50 yeah which is really, really positive.
Speaker 1:There's opportunities there. As you say, they're possibly dealing with the family financial planner and most, a lot of the time, it's men that have got that financial planner in, so it tends to be a man, right. So you're actually positioned perfectly well and I think, at your age as well, the demographic that you're servicing is spot on and there is a distinct lack to people your age in financial planning and there is an opportunity. There's an opportunity at every level, at every age level within financial planning. But right now, where you are, I would say you're in the speak that you know. You're in the sweet spot. Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, if people are listening to this podcast and they're, oh, am I too old to be a financial planner? Hell, no, you know, it's a great opportunity.
Speaker 1:You said 10 to 15 years. So what have you got? You've got experience, you've ran a business, you understand exit strategies, right. So I always think, like financial planning, one of those wonderful professions you can get into right, self-employed, you can build a business that gives you recurring income, so you get your assets under management, which gives you a level of recurring income. Yeah, but if you sold it in today's market, that business, that client book, and it was a clean, easy sale, which it would be if you were a foster nova advisor, because you can sell it internally in the ecosystem. Yes, you can get four times yep. So if you get 250k's worth of recurring income which isn't unimaginable within 10 years, easy right isn't unimaginable that's the plan.
Speaker 1:You're sitting on a million quid of a book of business exactly, which is pretty impressive. Now, you can probably do that in a very short space of time. Someone like you, who's very ambitious and hard-working and experienced and knowledgeable, should do that really, really quickly in my eyes. Now tell us a little bit about your goal setting what you set yourself for this year as a financial planner, and where are you in the journey so far? Because this is your first year, really, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's my first year. I started in January as a self-employed financial advisor. I had a goal that was set to me by Foster DeNovo, bearing in mind I'm a newbie and you know I hit that goal at May this year.
Speaker 1:So you know 108,000.
Speaker 2:108,000?.
Speaker 1:Yep Within a 12-month period. Within a 12-month month period and you smashed that in may smashed it in may.
Speaker 2:Fantastic well done, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So where are we looking then for the end of the year? What's your target now? So what do you think you're going to achieve?
Speaker 2:well, obviously that that figure is a little bit higher now already, but we're probably looking between 350,000 and 400,000 for the year. Wow, yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:There's not many people in their first year of being a financial planner self-employed. That's going to be hitting heights when it comes to new business of 400,000.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:That's incredible for your first year and we're talking back. Go back to the conversation we had a bit earlier about the fact that where are you getting those clients from, because you're not out there knocking on doors, cold calling, are you? You are building relationships on an internal basis in this ecosystem that foster deliver have in place. You're leaning into second sight. You're working the corporate angle. You're giving content away. You're giving information away for free to people yeah, yeah, but you're getting something coming back to you, isn't it?
Speaker 2:that's the thing. There's a lot of clients. I see that I know I'm never going to see again and I give them whatever I can because some of them will come back. So what I do is I do also have a blog site I have a newsletter.
Speaker 2:Um, and those clients, I see that I don't necessarily sign first time around. I make sure they get my newsletter and by doing that I'm just in their mind. So I've already had clients that I've seen in January maybe didn't sign them up as a client, whatever the reason might have been referred their parents to me. And this is the other thing about this business. If you're willing to just give a little bit more and build a trust relationship with someone, even if they're not signing with you right now, they will come back to you. If they don't, they'll refer.
Speaker 2:I've already had referrals from my new clients and that's where I think the biggest build-up of a business is. Is that referral business? Because it's. Nothing is stronger than a referral. Nothing is stronger than someone saying I've got this financial advisor and I really recommend you see her because she's done something for me, whatever. Whatever that might have been given advice, actually done something with my pensions or my investments or estate planning or whatever it might be but she's helped me and I can tell you now she's going to help you. Nothing better than that.
Speaker 1:Love what you're doing there in respect of nurturing prospects, just because you can't do a deal with them there and then and offer them a service and turn them into a fee paying client on day one. Well, the reality of it is you're not going to, are you?
Speaker 1:you know, it's not every single client that you sit down with no is a prospect that turns into an opportunity within a couple of weeks, in fact. Sometimes people come back to you as you say two, three, four, five, six, twelve months sometimes later and say oh actually, let me introduce you to my friend. They've just inherited a load of money. Yeah, it's about being front and center, yeah, a key person of influence within their lives. You're not out there smashing social media. You're not out there knocking on doors or anything like that. Right, okay, you're not out there at every single networking event going no you're keeping it pretty damn simple.
Speaker 1:Yes, now talk to me about this blog, because I think that's a really powerful way to keep giving touch points and touching base with potential prospects and existing clients, because we want those referrals from those existing clients. So your blog, then. What is it about? What do you? What information do you providing these clients? Because this would hopefully influence other advisors to do the same, because it's quite a simple thing to do. Obviously, you have to build a habit absolutely but it's it's simple to do.
Speaker 2:It's easy to do. It's got to do with. We live in an ever-changing climate new government, new autumn statement, new spring statement. Every time there's one of those things change. You need to make sure your clients are up to date with that, because they might experience a change. Now this might go to a client that you haven't signed up, so you're not really looking after them, but they're realizing, oh, capital gains tax is going up. I've got this investment that maybe I'm going to be in trouble. Pick up the phone, phone your financial advisor or the one you saw. And then it's a question of just making sure you know. You've got your macroeconomics. Who's going to be president in America? What influence is that going to have on what happens, what I'm doing, what happens with your investment? So there'll be an article on that. There'll be an article on divorce. What are the things you have to look at when you are going through a divorce? Put that in a blog. And then the simpler things Do you have a budget? What does it look like? Do you stick to it?
Speaker 1:There's so much, there's so much, there's so much, I think as well, when you keep it the real, simple psycholinguistics, simple language, no jargon, what you're actually empowering is the is an educational piece, right? Yes, and what we all love is to be able to tell somebody what we know, right, when something comes up, you know the touch when you say you're talking about divorce, that person who receives it might not be going through a divorce, but their friend might be but like they said they probably know their friend is, but if you're front and center and they've got something to give that person, information, wise when it comes to have you thought about your finances and, by the way, I I know somebody who specializes in that that's hugely powerful.
Speaker 1:So, aligning those specific macroeconomics, current affairs, life events, pensions, retirement, someone dying, buying a house, leaving money to your children, care home fees, all these different things that happen, these are simple life events, aren't they? Yeah, but are we talking about those life events enough and are we attaching financial education to those life events? Because you could sit in a chat gpt and say give me 50 life events that will happen which will affect somebody's finances. It'll give you 50 ideas. Yes, then you go, write me the outline of 50 blog articles, bang off, you go, you're, you're away, do that. You know, in two days you've got the outlines. 80 is probably done right, especially if it's chat gp4, gtp4 and it's up to date with information. Right, then you can put your personal touch on it exactly.
Speaker 1:And one of the interesting things I've learned about chat gpt now we're on the old subject of ai and how helpful it can actually be. I'm starting to build out and train a chat bot, if you you like to know my own personality and everything. So I chuck my. If I do a podcast with you now, I'll get the transcript, I'll chuck it into my chat GPT and I'll create an article based on our conversation. So we might I might hyper focus on divorce. But then I'd say, make sure you pick out quotes from what we were talking about.
Speaker 1:Make the podcast focused around financial plan of life. Make sure you pick out quotes from what we were talking about. Make the podcast focused around financial plan of life. Make sure you use my tone of voice, because what I've done in the background is chucked in my 180 episodes into it and it's learned my tone of voice to learn how I communicate. So I can turn that whole chat bot chat gpt, um, yeah, bot, if you like also into a chat bot that sits on my website exactly and all of a sudden I've got loads of information. So creating the content that gives the information back to the client doesn't mean that everything's ai and it sounds like a robot. No, because you can. It's just giving you 80 of the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you can put your own touch on I think people are a bit scared of ai just because they don't know it. I use ai. I use it every day. Yeah, I use it. When I have a meeting there's specific ai, I use that set up for financial planning record my meeting and I say, well, sum it up, yeah and it's designed to sum up what was discussed from a financial advisor's point of view.
Speaker 2:So it puts everything the client said about their pensions in one topic what their retirement planning are, what their investments are, whatever. It also personalizes it a little bit. So, yes, I know that they've got four grandchildren, I know they're going on holiday, whatever the case might be, and from that I'm able to go to my team and say right, team, these are the soft facts of my client. We now need to get the hard facts, the information from the providers or whatever, and then it's so much easier to put together a recommendation report because it takes so much less time, Saves so much time. I save at least an hour and a half per client by just using AI. Yeah, that's spot on. It's not going to replace me. I know it's not going to replace me. What tool is that one Planner Pal.
Speaker 1:Planner Pal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, recommend it.
Speaker 2:It's easy enough to use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect. I wonder how many people are not using it.
Speaker 2:It's easy enough to use. I use it. It's saved me a lot of time. You don't want to sit in front of a client, necessarily and just be writing down stuff. You want to listen to what they're saying. You want to keep eye contact. You want them to feel that they're being heard. That's your trust relationship. Yeah, 100, 100 if you keep on breaking eye contact because you're writing stuff down, they're just looking at your forehead yeah, you reinforce, I do you know what.
Speaker 1:I've been lazy around that because when I talk to people, I'm often writing. It's been picked up, actually, that I'm writing as I'm talking. Yeah, and I, I'm somebody who massively enjoys talking to somebody. I like looking in the eyes. I love the oxytocin, the connection, I love it all. You just love talking, I just love chatting, but I do.
Speaker 1:I take great pleasure and great enjoyment of getting to know somebody. That's part of my purpose in life. There's nothing better than getting to know somebody Right. And there is a chemical reaction that happens when you do it. It does Oxytocin, it happens. So for me I'm like and I'm disorganized and I'm writing stuff down, something I've got, and after time it's like no, I don't even need to write down because I've already understood it, because I've connected. So if something's in the background summarizing it all for me, and I've trained it in a way to then send out a follow-up to the client follow-up to me.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what it does. The power planner or whatever, exactly what it does it's job done, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I need to get on that. Thank you, it's really a good.
Speaker 2:It's a good way of of getting the admin sorted. Yeah, because admin takes up a lot of our time. A lot of new advisors think that they shouldn't look at admin support. Now, admin support isn't just about ai. I've got a great team. Um, I know you had a podcast with Ryan Edwards who's?
Speaker 2:my client relationship manager and it's great to have a team. It can be very lonely as a self-employed advisor as well. You have to reach out and make those human connections. My team keep me on my toes. They, you know they'll chase me for stuff, which is great. But I think a lot of young advisors or new advisors rather make the mistake of saying, oh, I'll do it myself, I don't need the support. I don't want to pay for the support. I've paid for support to give me the ability to have 12 to 15 client meetings a week. People go how on earth are you having that many client meetings? And I go because I've got a team, because once I'm done with the meeting, I sit down with my team, I give them my ai stuff and and off they go let's focus on that a second, because you've accelerated your business really, really quickly.
Speaker 1:You've had huge success in a very short period of time. So you're telling me, even within that short period of time, you've built a team of people to support you within your first year of being a financial planner.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's incredible. You have to. You can't do this on your own.
Speaker 1:You have to. Have to Okay, the first thing you did then. What was the first thing you did then? What was the first thing you did to support you? When you're building that team, what's the first thing you should do?
Speaker 2:So I went straight to the biggest one, which is a client relationship manager, because you're not always there to answer all the clients' emails and sometimes it's just an information email, it's not advice. So I can say, ryan, can you just get back to my client on this, please? I'm just in a meeting. So instead of the client waiting for you to finish the six meetings that you're in and you're going to only answer them tomorrow or the day after, I have someone already answering and making a connection with my client. I then also had a bit more junior person who looks after the sending out letters of authority, getting policy information, plan information, that kind of thing. And then, obviously, I have a paraplanner who helps me with the writing of the suitability reports, because they're big documents I mean average suitability reports, probably 32 pages.
Speaker 2:If you're doing all of this on your own, when on earth are you going to have time to see clients? Yeah, just sitting on the phone getting information from a provider Providers are shocking. So I started literally a week before lockdown and I was doing this job, and this is, I think, also why I understand it so much better. I realized at that stage okay, lockdown wasn't a great time to start. But I mean I would be on hold on the phone with the provider for an hour before I speak to someone and then speak to someone and then realize you're in the wrong department and then having transfer and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that time that that person is spending, imagine you doing that. So I've got a client with six plans. That's six hours gone just to get the plan information.
Speaker 1:it's not worth it there's a lot of, a lot of this conversation is hitting home with me because I'm going through this whole process at the moment and I never really kind of I had I run a recruitment company but you focused on like hiring sales people. Really, you didn't really focus on like hiring operational people. Have to have them, yeah, and I'm doing that. Now I'm I'm starting to build a team around me because my skill set lies in sitting in front of somebody and having a conversation. Right, not not even outreach to people, like not even sales outreach isn't. It's not. You know, I shouldn't be like smashing, like a like in linkedin with messages and stuff like that. Someone else should be doing that for me. I just need to be booked in and having conversations with people out, building content, creating all that kind of stuff. That's where my strength lies and that's where my future income is going to come through from sponsorship. So the more eyes on me.
Speaker 1:The more money I make, the more sponsors are going to work with me, the more I can build events and do the fun stuff that I really enjoy.
Speaker 2:This is the thing I have to sit in front of a client.
Speaker 1:If I'm not sitting in front of a client, what am I doing?
Speaker 2:paperwork, yeah it's so basic though but it's also quite hard.
Speaker 1:It's hard to let go.
Speaker 2:It's hard yeah, it's hard to let go. Oh, and I'm a control freak yeah, yeah, it takes a while, yeah but once you realize the amount of time that you free up for yourself and for your clients, yeah it's life-changing but you need to be in the right environment yes
Speaker 1:because when I was in my own business and I was head, honcho, right, it was the wrong environment because I didn't have anybody to lean into exactly. And then you know you worry about money a bit more when it's your own business and stuff. Now I'm in an environment where I got like a coo next to me and, like I did it recently, I went into a meeting and and he just took everything down I said, went in three days later and he built me a spreadsheet everything was there and then works out all the people I need in my team, how much it's going to cost me, how much my time I'm sitting there going. Oh, my god, if I had you three years ago I reckon I'd be a multi-millionaire right now, because it was the part of me that I struggle with the most.
Speaker 1:And it kind of reminds me here, like with Foster De no novo, someone comes in. You're a financial planner, you want to see clients, you want to do the job you enjoy doing right, fixing people and changing lives and and the fun stuff, right, the fun stuff. You don't want to be bogged down with the stuff that's going to tear you apart, but when you come to an environment where they've already got it in and it's plug and play and all you got to do is put a relationship with that individual. You don't even have to hire them. Exactly it's there, isn't it?
Speaker 2:this is. This is what I meant when I said it's different when you're working completely for yourself or when you have a company like foster de novo, where actually you can go and say this is what I need. Can you guys help me with this? And if they, if the answer is not immediately yes, they'll find a way yeah and because of that, you want to talk about me reaching targets. I would never be able to reach these targets without the support I've had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, never yeah, yeah and it's very common, by the way, theme in here, you know, uh, people are humble enough and non-egotistical enough to recognize that the environment is really what's helping them. Um, I think that's really, really important, and I think it's a great lesson when you're self-employed, that actually moving from self-employed into an environment where you're supported, yeah, isn't, isn't a weakness, it's actually a strength, and I think people need to let go and let someone in to help, and I think it's really powerful. Um, going back to your content strategy and how you I love the simplicity of sending a blog right, you send it via email and everything. Do you do anything on LinkedIn, though?
Speaker 2:I have a marketing company who assists me as well. Another thing I'm outsourcing Nice Purely because of time. Yep. You're going to tell me to do posts I'm going to forget. I'm not from the generation who does posts on a daily basis. I read them but, I, don't do them. I'm on Instagram every day. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:You're a watcher, not a contributor.
Speaker 2:I'm lurking in the background, but I have a company who assists me with that. So basically, what I've done is I've given them my LinkedIn account and I said, right, I need posts. Three times a week we sit down, we discuss the, the themes, if you want, um. And then I say, right, it's over to you guys. And every Tuesday, wednesday and Thursday they know, because they do this for a living, they know what time it goes out, they know what time to post and they put the posts and it just generates the impressions and the comments and the likes and whatever you want.
Speaker 2:And I've had friends from South Africa say to me oh, I see you're quite busy on LinkedIn. And I go, oh, am I? It's great. Yeah, and through that, what they also do for me is they do send some, some information to connections so they'll connect on my behalf. So, yes, people might say, oh, that's cheating a bit. And I go you know what? It's another thing I need to do I don't necessarily have time for. Yes, I have to pay for it, but how much of my time would it be and how much value can I put?
Speaker 1:on that. It's took me years, years to build up an audience. Exactly, it's a very long time you haven't got, as you've established already, right. You need to be focused on the thing that you need to do, which you do the best right, which is sitting in front of clients converting them into paying clients, right? I think I was just was going to say and I suspect you're probably on this already is that content you've created around the blog articles? If you haven't already get a linkedin creator account, turn those into articles. Have you done that?
Speaker 1:no double check with them, so take that take that, take that blog article, you've got create a linkedin newsletter oh right and then linkedin. Put that out on linkedin as well, and it actually grows your audience, so it's not like a newsletter would go out and you might lose a subscriber. This actually builds subscriptions and ends up in their email inbox as well. Good, so that's a really powerful tool. If you've already got it, repurpose it into that, put some images throughout it, and it's a really powerful way of doing it but also, if anybody had that kind of ambition to want to then go well, how can I create videos?
Speaker 1:well, get yourself a simple app where you can talk into it and put subtitles, and just get, go back to ai and convert it into a script and then you've got yourself a little kind of videos you can put out. If you want to do on instagram, you want to put on linkedin, this video does build a deeper relationship absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, in my eyes, you know, people go well, you have to have linkedin and you have to have this and you have to have that. And I'm thinking my linkedin really is my business card, my blog is my brochure okay yeah, okay, um, am I going to get clients out of it? Possibly it's like billboard advertising. It's there. I challenge that.
Speaker 1:I think LinkedIn is networking on steroids. So you could have a thousand people that are influential within the market that you want to work in True, as long as they are the right people you're connected with, and you treat it like if I walked into a room, is it the right room to walk into? Yes, so you create your ecosystem with the right people. Mine is financial planners and those that work within the profession. Right, so I want as many of those as I possibly can, because if I look at my post, it gets 300 likes if I can go through it, and 95 of it is those that are my target audience. Bam, I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I'm doing the right thing 100 and, and that's when you say that billboard, I get it, it's like a billboard but. And then your blog is like your newsletter, but if you look at it is networking on steroids and you've got that person in the background. The, the, the 2010, uh, five philosophy for me works really, really well. That process, which is you can only do 100 connection requests on a weekly basis, right, so send 20, send 10 messages and do five comments. Do that every single day and build that habit. Your audience grows.
Speaker 1:You know the algorithm loves you because you're engaging and you're growing your network of relevant people and over a period of time. If you had a hundred percent hit rate on that, it's massive. Like you know, you could get 4 000 new connections on a yearly basis easily. If you take into consideration, people won't accept it. I think the max you can get is like 5,000-odd, right, but your audience will grow If you do that and it's the engagement side of it. It grows. And then you've really got some reporting functions, because 2010-5 over five days, for example isn't that much Now, in three months' time.
Speaker 1:If you took your, I'd say to your person who's managing it say do that for me, Tell me what my impressions are now, what my engagement is and how many leads I've generated right this second, and then tell me in 90 days after you finished. Yes, and you'll be very surprised at what you get from a return on investment of that time and strategy. It's well worth you trying it.
Speaker 2:I think they might be doing that behind the scenes because I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2:I had a meeting with my social media well, the girl who's in charge of it yesterday and she said to me right, I need your demographic of who your client is. Let's talk about that, because that's who I want to target on LinkedIn. So it sounds like I'm not really involved, but I think that that is something we're looking at, not maybe in as much detail as what you've told me. So that's a little bit of homework I have to go and do A bit of homework mate, that's what.
Speaker 2:I'm here for, but great, great, absolutely yes.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time today. I'm going to bring that to an end.
Speaker 1:It's been a real pleasure talking to you. I'm so impressed with your journey so far, so far. Um, you're just going to accelerate, I think, over the next 10 to 15 years. No pressure, make sure you enjoy yourself. You know that's the key thing, isn't it? There's no point in working yourself to the bone and not enjoying yourself, because the most precious resource we have is time, and you are in that stage of your career now where it's the last bit of it. So I'm glad you found something where you're adding value back, based on your own personal experiences of financial trauma during during your divorce, for example and being able to now give back and help others, I think, is another higher purpose that financial planning brings. So anybody listening to this, think about it. What have you experienced in your life that could be transferable to helping others? Because financial well-being has a massively positive impact on people's lives, their families and all those that know them. So thanks for sharing your career journey on the financial plan life podcast lovely talking to you.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much.
