Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Switching From Mortgage Adviser to Chartered Financial Planner With Charlotte Walters
In this episode of the Financial Planner Life podcast, we are joined by Charlotte Walter, an award-winning chartered financial planner and founder of Avail Financial Planning a partner practice of St. James’s Place Wealth Management based in Woburn near Milton Keynes. Charlotte shares her inspiring journey from mortgage advising to running her successful financial planning practice.
This episode dives into:
- Prospecting and Business Development: Charlotte opens up about her early struggles with business development, including the emotional challenges she faced. She emphasizes the importance of persistence, networking, and relationship building.
- Working with Business Owners: As a niche specialist, Charlotte explains her focus on helping business owners grow, extract profits tax-efficiently, and plan their exit strategies. She shares actionable tips for building referral relationships with professionals like accountants.
- Living a Purpose-Led Life: Charlotte highlights how running her own business has enabled her to design a life aligned with her values, including giving back to her community through mentoring and volunteering.
- Transition from Mortgage to Financial Planning: Charlotte details her career evolution, starting at McDonald’s, moving into mortgage advice, and finally finding her passion in financial planning.
- Challenges of Entrepreneurship: She discusses the tough conversations and challenges she faced while transitioning to her own partner practice at St. James’s Place.
If you are inspired by Charlotte's journey and interested in starting a career with St. James’s Place Wealth Management - check out the St. James's Place Financial Adviser Academy and start your career today.
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With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Charlotte Waters. She is an award winning chartered financial planner and today we talk about prospecting business development, generating relationships with business owners, and she gives some hints and tips on how she has done that. It's not easy in the first couple of years. She self admits she cried a lot when it came to business development, but five years later on she is reaping the rewards. We talk about living a life with purpose, why running your own business isn't just about the financials. It's about freeing up your time to do what you want with your life when you want it. You're going to love this episode, charlotte. Thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast. I'm in my makeshift home studio. It's not perfect, but I've tried my best. Obviously, we had a few setup problems there and you were talking me through it and calming me down, so thank you very much for that. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really good. Thank you Really good, nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1:Good, Fantastic. So we were just saying, wasn't it? I've seen your name, I've seen your face. You pop up on LinkedIn. You've sort of commented and liked my content, and it's always lovely when I get to sit down and actually speak to people and they're not just a LinkedIn profile. So thank you so much for joining me, and today we want to find out, as per usual, what your career journey has been like within financial planning, how you got into the financial planning profession and why others should join you in this wonderful profession and hopefully inspire a few people either already in the profession to push forward or those outside of it to join. So I'll tell you what. Let me just kick things off first. Can you just give us a bit of an introduction? Who are you? Where are you in your career at this point in time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm Charlotte Waters, so I run Avail Financial Planning and we are based in Woburn of Milton Keynes. So I've had the practice now for just over two years, primarily dealing with business owners and professionals, helping them to grow their businesses, extract profit tax efficiently and then look at their exit strategy planning. We've got a small team there's. I've got two sort of an office manager, a PA and a power planner. So we work really closely together managing all stages of the client sort of journey. And yeah, that's. There's no plans really at the moment to grow my team any further. Um, of course, as we need more people to manage the administration, there'll be be that sort of side of things, but no plans for advisors as it stands at the moment. But yeah, that's that's us interesting.
Speaker 1:So when you see growth of hires within your business, you see it more from a support function, not from a financial planners function yeah, I think my value is best added being with clients.
Speaker 2:So the more time I can spend out with clients, meeting people or networking, whatever that might be, and the back office team supporting me, you know, producing all the paperwork that we need to do, all the compliance things, that will become, you know, harder. We've got, you know, lots of client reviews that we do regularly and therefore they generate a lot of um follow-up paperwork. So the more clients we take on, the more of that there's going to be in there for the need for more administration staff in the background fantastic.
Speaker 1:Are you somebody that is are you? Are you any good at administration? Do you like administration, or are you somebody that would rather do as little of that as possible?
Speaker 2:I really like to keep my hand in, so I've always had a thing about compliance. My mum's a big compliance person in a law firm, so I guess I get that from her. So I have a little bit of a control freak on that front. So I do like to read over the case notes, make sure before they go to business assurance that they are as we should expect. But equally, I do value that my time is better spent not sat behind a laptop doing administration. So yeah, I don't mind it, that's the word but I much prefer being in front of people talking to people, talking about their journeys and their plans. It's far more exciting.
Speaker 1:I'm 100% the same. I much prefer. My happiest place is talking to people talking about their journeys and their plans. It's far more exciting. I'm 100% the same. I much prefer. My happiest place is talking to people. When I have to sit down and actually go through any administration or building things out or writing things, it's tiring for me, it takes a lot of energy for me to do that, whereas on the other side, talking to people, I get energised, I feel good, I get energized, I pick up opportunities. There's a huge amount of creativity that takes place through conversation. Yeah, you know, and I love that. You are somebody, then, by the sounds of it, that is focusing on businesses as opposed to B2C. You're in the B2B space. Where and why? Why has that happened? Because a lot of people are just focusing on b2c, aren't they in financial planning yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:Well, if I'm honest, I kind of fell down that path. I think um with previously, when I was a mortgage advisor, I worked with a lot of business owners in that regard. Um, so naturally I I knew a lot. My network was business owners and then, from being self-employed myself and through my partner being self-employed, I utilised his network. When I first started out, I went networking a lot, I would say in the early days. You know, back six years ago, I was networking two to three days a week, because that's how you build a brand Right. So I gravitated towards business owners. I made some really good relationships with some accountancy practices. They naturally deal with lots of business owners. So I sort of decided that that's where I was going to niche out. We do do B2C stuff as well, but I would say that I am a specialist in that area. You know, growing, extracting and helping clients to be their most tax efficient versions of themselves. Really.
Speaker 1:So, when you've got people listening to this podcast and they're struggling to actually build those introducer relationships, what's a great approach to actually building a relationship with a business where potentially they could refer business to you?
Speaker 2:I think it's really important to be your true self. So, just because an accountancy practice might already have a financial advisor that they refer work to, doesn't mean that each and every one of their clients is suited to that specific individual. Um, I am a genuine believer that even I should have a handful of professionals that I refer to because, actually, um, there's a client you know that suits one accountancy firm that won't work with the other because their, their relationship or their personality isn't the right. I think it's really important to remember that you are probably disposable to them, because there are significant amounts of wealth planners looking to build relationships with professional introducers. Do what you say you're going to do, set your expectations, so tell them how you work and then, when the first two, three, four inquiries come through, manage them properly and keep them updated. They love being updated and kept informed, because they've trusted you and sent their client to you. They want to know that they're not being, you know it's their reputation also on the line.
Speaker 1:So just maintaining that confidence, and I think communication is key do you ever get involved in a meeting with both the introducer and the client? Do you ever get introduced at those stages, or does it tend to be something that happens after they've done their piece with the client? Let's say it's an accountant and they've done their piece, and then they say, oh, I know somebody who's a financial planner who can help you with the pension. Would you ever get involved and double tag and team these clients?
Speaker 2:I would say it's half and half. I would say there are scenarios where they may have had a client on the books for many years and it just becomes more relevant. And then I get an introduction or it will be that they're onboarding somebody. So one of my um accountancy practices had been looking at onboarding somebody who's quite big in the tiktok industry something but new to both them and me, us um. So we worked together, had a couple of joint meetings, talking about, you know, business profit, how sustainable it is, longevity of that business, because you know, in the influencer space there is probably a time limit depending on your, your personal brand of what you do, um. And so, yeah, in that scenario I was brought in really at the early stages.
Speaker 2:And then sometimes it might be that they've known the accountant for years and it's just come to a point where they want to start looking at their pension planning. So I'll I'll go to the accountancy practice and I'll see them out there if that's what they want us to do. So, yeah, really really mixed, to be honest with you really interesting what you said there about the tiktokers.
Speaker 1:Because they are entertainers, essentially, entertainers or sporting professionals may not have a typical career like everybody else. Right, they may not, uh, build out wealth until they may not build out super amounts of wealth very, very quickly, but it may not be maintained. So when you I'm really interested in that meeting, then when you approach that meeting with that tiktoker, did you learn a thing or two about their career and where they're going and the longevity of it and the fears and the worries that they might have? Are they thinking about financial plans?
Speaker 2:ish. Um, I think it sort of came out of nowhere. So having that level of wealth was quite so quickly was quite surprising for them. So they've been doing well at spending.
Speaker 2:Um, also, longevity wise. They don't know it, what they're doing could be a bubble. So they don't want to put everything away for later because actually, you know, obviously from a tax perspective, pensions is going to be the most probably tax efficient form of savings at the moment for them. But they're not that old. So if the bubble bursts in one, two, five years and they've locked away all that money for retirement, but then they've got to start again and look at another career, um, so yeah, it is. It's actually quite tricky and it's really interesting to understand from their perspective that they don't actually know a lot either and they don't really, you know, tick tock, just throw these things at them, um, and yeah, no, there's no real guarantee, is there? I'm much like, probably, in my job, you know there's no guarantee that clients are going to keep walking through the door. Um, you've got to work hard for it.
Speaker 1:But in financial planning, you can build a business plan, can you? You can go out, win clients. You know that there's a need for financial planning and it's only going to happen more and more and more, and you can build a business model that is based around recurring income yeah, on trends, I suppose tick tocks more what?
Speaker 2:yeah what trend, what craze, what fashion is going on here, there and yeah, so yeah, really interesting that one you never hear about financial planners who are specializing and niching down on social influences.
Speaker 1:I I haven't really come across many. I know a few advisors that have a few in there as clients, but there's nobody sort of hanging their hat on that youtuber influencer market. Have you seen it?
Speaker 2:there's one in that, well, I think an sjp partner that's based in the city. I'm pretty sure. I have seen his website and I'm pretty sure he is directed at, focused on looking after influencers. I'm pretty certain of that. I'll have to find his name and send you a message. Yeah, I will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please do, because that'd be really interesting for me to talk to. So let's just talk about how you got into financial planning, because a lot of people who listen to this podcast are thinking about joining the financial planning profession. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about you know how you got into financial planning and why you chose this path as a career so I'll touch early career really quickly.
Speaker 2:So I actually started my career at McDonald's because I had left school, had some GCSEs went to college, hated it, dropped out, so my dad basically made me get a job. So he got me a job at McDonald's fine, and then within a couple of weeks I was really good at it. I really enjoyed it. And my manager said to me oh, do you want to go on the management program? I was like good at it, I really enjoyed it, and my manager said to me oh, do you want to go on the management program? I was like cool, is it more money? She was like yeah, I was like great, so went on that. That. I was probably I think I was about 17 by this time. So it went on the management program and you go to London for like three days, big head office thing, come home basically qualified and you can run shifts. So I did that for I think a couple more years, got promoted to an assistant store manager, was earning really good money and I thought, right, can't do this for the rest of my life, I'm gonna have to do something. So took quite a big paid job drop and I just thought, well, maybe I'll go and work at a bank, don't know why. Just thought, why not? Yeah, um managed to get a job at nationwide working in the mortgage and insurance aftercare team. I really, really, really liked it. So I thought I'll be a mortgage advisor. So I self-studied all of my c-maps um, probably I was about probably would have been 1920 at the time got all my CMAPs and Nationwide said I couldn't become a mortgage advisor because it was a too big a jump from the job that I did to go to a mortgage advisor, even though I was qualified fine. So I went out to the marketplace, applied for some mortgage advisor jobs and got a job at Countrywide, spaced in a tailor's office. For three years, I think, I did it there, went through the rankings you know, senior mortgage advisor, etc. And then I just hated it, if I'm honest. Um, it was really high pressured. Clients want their mortgage offer before they've even found a house, you know really. And I took on that personal stress, to be honest with you, and so I decided that that wasn't the job for me.
Speaker 2:One of my friends ran a mortgage practice in Milton Keynes and he said to me he happened to ring me one day and say, char, are you coming to work for me yet? And I was like, actually let's talk. So I joined his team as just a protection specialist and for the next few years I just focused on helping his team write protection. I was probably writing circa £200,000 worth of protection business a year for him and at that time, because I was doing more in-depth planning. So, looking at the relevant life space bit of business shareholder protection clients would ask me oh, can you help me with my pensions or can you help me with whatever it is? And I thought no, but I could.
Speaker 2:So then I decided to self-study all my diploma, so um LIBF qualified, became qualified um late 2016, 17, early 17, and then decided in 2018 that I was going to go into full financial planning. Unfortunately, the network that my mortgage practice that I worked for under wouldn't authorize um financial and they wouldn't let us have a dual authorization. So it was. I didn't leave because for any other reason, but I wanted to do this job now and so, yeah, went to market, applied for some jobs, got offered a few um, I think, the Wesleyleyan prudential, an ifa firm locally, and then an sjp firm also, and that's when I decided to join sjp um after some due diligence um, and I've been here since june 2018 now, so yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 1:thank you very much for that breakdown. I've got a few questions around your whole journey, really, but I'm just going to start with one. First of all, you ended up at St James's Place. You joined a partner practice by the sounds of it, but you're now running your own partner practice. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool. How long were you in that partner practice for?
Speaker 2:I had a bit of a sticky start, so I was only with the original practice a few months. It wasn't the right fit, for varying reasons, and therefore I went back to at the time I think it was an acquisition manager and they said to me right, let's, let's go back to the drawing board, let's find another practice. So then in January 2019, I joined another local SJP practice and I was there for three years. So the first one probably not worth mentioning, but the second one I learned loads, really great experience working together. You know, growing my own client bank. Everything that I did pretty much was self-generated, um. So, yeah, I would say it was a good experience, but the partner knew at the time that I always wanted to be a business owner and that was always part of my strategy. Um, so therefore, it would be either coming together when the time was right or that I would probably exit and have my own show, if that makes sense no, it makes total sense.
Speaker 1:About three years then, when you were sitting underneath the um other partner practice before you set your own business up, um, what level of support did you receive from that company? Was it a one person company? Was it a company who employed multiple staff? Was it beneficial to you to be part of a partner practice before you went off on your own?
Speaker 2:I think in the early days yes, it definitely was there was um. I had access after a couple of years to a PA that would support me, um, but I paid for my power, my own power, planning and things that I think, being a non-experienced but qualified financial advisor, gave me that safety blanket. I'm forever grateful to her for working my first, maybe sort of 10 cases through with me through with me because it's okay, you know what you're doing, but it's actually having the confidence to go and do it and I think if you've got somebody who's been doing it for six, seven years previous to you, um, it just gives you that added bit of reassurance and so we work through those cases together and I'd say that is probably the most invaluable thing that I got out of working with the business.
Speaker 1:basically, when you reflect back on that three years, was it three years too long? Do you think you could have set up on your own a lot quicker?
Speaker 2:yes, probably, but I think everything happens for a reason and that was just the right time what stops you from setting up sooner on your own?
Speaker 2:I didn't need to, because we were working towards a joint goal, but the objective of the other person changed. So when their objectives changed, mine hadn't um. I just sort of said to her I completely understood her reasoning, but I I wanted them to support me in an exit um to which they agreed, and that started in um like November 2021. And then, um, my FCA registration finally came through in May, april 2022, and I worked, still worked, under the practice in that until we had an agreement that I could still practice under her license um until that time, which was obviously very kind, and then I just transitioned into my new yeah, into my new business.
Speaker 1:So there's no trickiness. You mentioned you self-generated all your business during that three-year period and I suppose conversations were had at the very beginning that ultimately you would be wanting to exit and run your own business at some point, run your own partner practice. So you didn't come across any problems or challenges at that point in time. I assume it's always kind of nerve-wracking to be able to sit down with somebody and say can I have, can I take my clients?
Speaker 2:I only want to go and set my own business up yeah, of course, there were difficulties, uh, in that, and I, I get it, I do, you know, somebody wants to leave your business. They want to take, take their clients with them and, to be honest, if, if they had been given to me on a plate, I would have had maybe felt more guilt, but I know that I grew each and every single one of them I, I did that all myself, and so actually I felt like they weren't entitled to that. Um, so it is tricky and, and we did have some difficult conversations, but that made me who I am. Now I'm stronger and I can handle more situations.
Speaker 2:Now, I don't you know, there's nothing that I regret doing, and there's things, other things that I changed, maybe slightly, but also, you can't change the way that other people react, so some of the things you know weren't down to me. It was down to how they had reacted and that's their prerogative.
Speaker 2:Did it cause you a bit of stress at a time, though? Yeah, um, but I got in it. It was really odd. The day before it all sort of happened. Um, we were having quite detailed discussions and then the next morning an email just landed in my inbox, basically rescinding a lot of things, so I just didn't reply. I just forwarded it to my other half and he literally replied, saying the best thing that has ever happened to you has just happened, and I was like, okay, not going to worry about it. I thought I'm just going to take some time to reflect, went back and just said I'm going to take a few days. I'll come back to you you know my thoughts in a week or so time. Um, and yeah, haven't looked.
Speaker 1:I think these challenging times do make us who we are. I've gone recently. 10 months ago, I exited out my recruitment company and sold it on an internal basis. It wasn't the sale that I hoped it to be and it wasn't the exit that I envisioned in my career, in my career plan. In fact, it was quite the opposite and it really actually ended up stressing me out a lot, um, but deep down it was everything I wished for. You know, I didn't want to run a recruitment company anymore. You know, I wanted to focus on the financial plan of life, or I wanted to build a financial planning business. I wanted to get involved in that way.
Speaker 1:And it's funny, isn't it, when you wish for these things and you think about these things and you have these dreams and these aspirations and these goals that you want to achieve. But you know you can't do it within the confines of what you, of what you are in. You know, I was in a recruit, I was in a partnership, I owned a business with somebody else and when it all started to fall apart a little bit and a few of the problems came to the surface, it was almost like, well, you asked for it, sam, and here it is the universe just laid everything out in front of me in a massive lesson as well, and it took me out for a good couple of months. I mean it really when you hear the word term burnout.
Speaker 1:It burned me out yeah but then, as I was coming back out again and I would call that like a recovery period all this wonderful stuff started happening, because I was no longer within an environment that wasn't serving me I. It was like the world opened up for me. So, as I was rebuilding and I was coming out of this almost toxic relationship right, that's what it felt like that I'd that I'd been dumped in from a toxic relationship. Does that make sense? And then, as I came out of it and I'd let it go, all these opportunities started coming to me because the conversations that I could have, who I could talk to, uh, the parks that I could play in, if you like, metaphorically, were all there and there was no restraints and I was totally, truly on my own, worryingly on my own.
Speaker 1:It freaked me out a little bit because I always had this business and I built it, had 20 odd people in it and you know, that was my identity essentially. But all of a sudden, as I was rebuilding, it was like, oh my god, this is amazing. So often not more often than not it's challenging and uncomfortable conversations, especially when we're moving on, whether it's leaving a company, whether it's selling a company, where it's part in ways, with somebody, you're self-employed with these ideas, these companies that you had, these dreams, these aspirations. More often than not, if it doesn't feel right and you follow through with it, it will be painful, but you come out the other side feeling a million times better and it is, as your partner said, the best thing that can ever happen to you, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, was the process tedious? Yes, it was. Was it uncomfortable? Yeah, it was. Um, but have I survived? Yeah, I have. And would I do it again? Yeah, I would. Um, so, yeah, it's just having that confidence, I suppose, and a belief in yourself and also, look, we're not best of friends now. Um, we can be in the same room together. Um, unfortunately we just can't be. But actually, that then they're not your person, are they?
Speaker 1:so it doesn't matter no, and I think sometimes business we think it's personal, but it's not, it's business, and who we think are our friends at the time it's not, it's just a business relationship. I think we can kind of put too much emotion into business relationships and I think they should be separate, in my opinion, from your personal relationships and it's easy to fall. Friendly with people who you work with Business is a tricky one, you know. Friendly with people who you work with Business is a tricky one Because when the shit hits the fan, when it comes down to money ownership, people can get funny, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:We all can, especially when money's involved. That's always like even obviously in our job, like we see it with families. It can destroy families where they've been you know so close for so long, and it's just, yeah, it does evil things to people and so, yeah, like you say, unfortunately these things happen, but yeah, that's okay and we get major learning experiences from it, and that's the beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:So there's always a there's always a blessing in the lesson, isn't it? What feels painful at the time becomes an amazing lesson. So when you move forward, not only have you got the experience to be able to talk to somebody who's going through something quite tricky and you can relate to them and empathize with their situation because you have the experience, but you've learned from it and you won't make the same mistakes again. But you'll make some other ones, and that's okay. So the fact that you've got through something which is quite stressful and problematic means that the next time a problem comes up, you know you can get through it, and that's another blessing. I think. The harder, the harder a challenge is to get through, the easier prepared you are for the next big challenge and you're almost expecting the next big challenge, but you're not fearful of it. Does that make sense.
Speaker 2:That's how I feel. Yeah, more confident, more ready, just ready to learn, I suppose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, you came from mortgages into financial planning, so just tell us about that transition.
Speaker 2:So it was quite hard. But because you know how to do a really good fact find and things like that, that bit was easy. So if you could get a conversation with a client and and talk about financial planning, then great. I also had some inquiries from being a mortgage advisor. I had the same phone number so that would happen and it would lead into conversations. I've mentioned my partner already, but he has a house building company and so I would do some mortgages for people on his development so that obviously gave me a short-term stream of clients from there.
Speaker 2:I suppose I just sort of winged it a bit. I think that's until you meet probably your first 10 prospect clients. You go in there confident, you pretend like you know what you're doing, you do your fact finding and you just have a conversation. You get to know that client as well as you possibly can do and then you come away with all the information and you can put the plans together. You don't need to do it then, and there it's not. You know I don't need to be given financial advice at a first meeting. I can give them some ideas and hints and tips maybe, and then that's when you come away and you do your learning At SJP. We have endless amounts of resource available to us. So, whether that be reaching out to another partner, obviously at the time I had the partner that I worked for. We have helplines, we have advice, frameworks, we have everything. You can come away and you can do it. So, yeah, it wasn't that easy, but also it wasn't impossible. So yeah, it wasn't that easy, but also it wasn't impossible.
Speaker 1:So you were writing mortgage business protection business in the very, very beginning. So you were still sort of leaning into that.
Speaker 2:Yep. So let's be honest, everyone's got a bottom line that they want to bring in. At the time I saw a mortgage lead as an opportunity. So at that time all my fact finds included pension information. Pension information, please, you know what. What pensions have you got?
Speaker 2:Because, also, as a mortgage advisor now now I do still work closely to quite a lot of mortgage advisors it benefits them, uh, to know that a client has a pension and in some scenarios it actually helps them get a mortgage over the line. So, yeah, let's ask all of that. And I'd just say to them when's the last time you reviewed your pensions? I can almost guarantee every client will say, oh, I never have. Um. So I'd say, well, all that paperwork shaft in a drawer, do you want me to do an obligation, uh review of that for you?
Speaker 2:And so mortgage and protection would come primary first. At that time I would send off the LOAs for the pension stuff and once all that was back in, we would have a first. At that time I would send off the LOAs for the pension stuff and once all that was back in, we would have a look at what was there. The difficulty is with people getting mortgages. Generally they don't have any money because they're probably buying a house and so all their money is going. So they haven't got cash to invest. But most of them have got historic pensions and probably don't know how they're working for them very interesting.
Speaker 1:So you you were leaning into that in the very beginning to use it as a way to open up conversations around financial planning yeah, and also, obviously, bringing a steady stream of income at the same time, I suppose okay, leaning into what you knew.
Speaker 1:You knew you could get some, some, some mortgage applications across the line and then recognizing ways to generate new income and doing those. Those pension reviews you mentioned there as well. Obviously, people do tend to max out when they get more, which is saying they don't tend to have any money left over. Most most people right, it's taking them so long to save it. Um, but do you find that when you have those conversations around the pensions, or at least when you know that they have a mortgage with you, that you then sort of build out a marketing plan to keep in contact with them and touch base with them when you know perhaps they might need some more financial planning?
Speaker 2:absolutely obviously it's at your earlier days. You're not just thinking about strategy, you're thinking about just getting clients, um, and I think that a client then is now a deeper client now because the opportunity comes later. Potentially some of those clients may have been younger, some of them may have been a little bit older, um, but as they progress through their careers, nobody's as thankful as a mortgage client the gifts that I used to get when I was just a mortgage advisor the flowers, the cards, chocolates, the wine because they have a tangible asset at the end, so you can touch, see, feel it, whereas your pension you can't touch, see, feel it. So it's a completely different relationship. But if you've got clients that you've done mortgages for as well, actually, because they have touched the asset that you've helped them get and they loved it so much, they're forever grateful and they're the clients that actually refer you endlessly.
Speaker 1:It's really odd it's a really great way of looking at it. It also ties in with like the hierarchy of needs, doesn't it? Shelter is so such an important need for a human being yeah, to have.
Speaker 1:So the actual, the actual helping somebody go through what is a very uncomfortable process of buying your first home or upgrading to the dream home that you always wanted. There is almost like I must admit that, a mortgage advisor who helped me. It was really tricky for me to get a mortgage because I was a business owner and it was just my income and I'd owned a property before and had to sell it because I was in a relationship that went pear-shaped. So it was really really tricky. And I remember dealing with a mortgage advisor and he, oh yeah, we'll get you this, we'll get you that. Anyway, I went and looked at this house and everything came back and he was like, oh yeah, I can't, I can't help you, we can't, we can't give you the mortgage. My heart was broken.
Speaker 1:I remember going back to the guy at CJL, the, the state agent. He said don't worry about it, I know a guy and I'll introduce you to him. And that guy got me through the process and got me the mortgage. And the interesting thing was he was from the same network as well, so he's from the same mortgage network. So one mortgage advisor on that network has access to the same product range. Right, couldn't help me, whereas the other one could, and I was just like, oh my gosh, I was so grateful I think I referred about five people into him so he was happy.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you're absolutely right, I think there is a deeper relationship with a mortgage advisor, and what a wonderful way to then transition into financial planning opportunities, transferring across then. So moving from mortgage advice into financial planning completely different fee model One's more long term build recurring income takes time. The other is more transactional, bigger different fee model One's more long-term build recurring income takes time. The other is more transactional, bigger upfront fee, right? Yeah, did that cause you a lot of stress in the beginning? Did that put any pressure on you moving across? Or were you sort of long-term paying? What was it? Short-term paying, long-term gain, was that?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, yeah, no, it's always been.
Speaker 2:obviously I know a lot of very successful mortgage advisors and they earn an absolute fortune, but there is no, it's a keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going type of business, whereas I get to build, grow, grow, develop. Speak to the same people every year, um, regularly. Anytime they want to do something and change something, they ring me, and I love that, um. Therefore, anybody that they recommend to me, I can almost guarantee, is already a client before they sit at my desk, um, and then I have a saleable asset at the end of it. So, from a commercial perspective, all I need to do is do my job well and do what I say I'm going to do. As long as I do that, my business is going to be saleable and I'm gonna have some incredible relationships on the way.
Speaker 2:That isn't so transactional, um, I think with the mortgages, obviously, it's so transactional and so emotive. Yes, everyone needs a mortgage every two, five years, whatever. That is, um, but I don't. You don't sit and learn about their lives, their goals, their aspirations, um, you know, work with their families, really not on like a deep level. So, yeah, I think it was potentially short-term pain, um, but now I'm in an established position. I am, yeah, lucky. Well, I'm lucky.
Speaker 2:I've worked really hard and so yeah I have established a business that allows me to, yeah, live more freely. I don't work horrible hours, um, I'm not one of these financial planners that wants to work 14 hours a day. That doesn't appeal to me. Money also not my driver, um, having time to give back is my driver, and so, um, I just want to have enough money to do some nice things. I don't, you know, I don't necessarily want to be a multi, multi-millionaire, I don't care. Um, I just want to have enough and that is, yeah, it helps me to have that that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Giving back, then talk to me about that. That's obviously something purpose-led. Some people have driven my money, as you rightfully said, and they'll work every hour under the sun to to achieve what that goal is. Now, when you're talking about being purpose-led, but what you want to give back, what does that mean? What are you doing?
Speaker 2:there's a few things that I do because I like to and that I enjoy them. The more I do of that, the better I perform in my business. Um, don't know why just do so. I do mentor a handful of people, primarily financial advisors. There is one or two that are not financial advisors, that just I suppose it's a bit more like an accountability person because they know how to run their business but they just need somebody to sort of check in and be that sort of person. So I do that and I have a couple of sjp advisors that I look after. Um and I do get people reaching out to me via linkedin quite often and that just want to ask questions and pick my brains about becoming a financial advisor, etc. I just enjoy that. Um.
Speaker 2:I do also volunteer our local charity um so they support disadvantaged, unbriable children suicidal as young as four. Um. So they support disadvantaged and vulnerable children suicidal as young as four. Um. So that's at the equestrian center. That's actually what I'm doing this afternoon. I um go and work there on a wednesday afternoon every wednesday and work with the children so we get them ready, we teach them to develop relationships with horses and then take them to a classroom where they do sort of like mindfulness, slash, positivity workbooks, etc. Team building and things like that. So I really enjoy that. They've asked me to be on their committee for some couple of their events as well, so I'm helping them to, you know, get together some auction prizes, raffle prizes, etc. So yeah, I enjoy that as well, because it's very local to us, it's very personal, so I really like that yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Are you into horses, then? Is that your?
Speaker 2:thing. No, I'm petrified. So I actually went under a horse a few well, just before the summer holidays. We're just going back from term time now. Um, me and a child ended up under a horse. I was honestly. Luckily neither of us were hurt. It could have been so different. One of the other horses spooked our horse and it literally ended up going over. So, yeah, I'm a little bit nervous to go back, but it will be fine. I think if they can do it and how vulnerable these children are, I can do it. So do you know what I learn? Loads it's. It's great for me. I think it's it's so good what they do for the children are. I can do it. So do you know what I learn? Loads it's, it's great for me. I think it's. It's so good what they do for the children. And I just think, yeah, if they can do it, I can definitely do it.
Speaker 1:I think when you give up your time into helping others and I've done that a lot in my life, whether it's helping somebody through depression, anxiety, the same suicidal ideations I was on the board of directors for talk club, the men's mental fitness charity I'm I'm still part of that. Um, when I went through the stages of giving up alcohol, I actually did a 12-step process and a big part of that is you've got to help other people. It's part of the 12-step process is giving back to others. I always find when I take the time to help others and there is no monetary gain involved, it is one of the most amazing things that you can do. You know there is the only the return you get back by seeing somebody develop and change or have a different perspective or improve as a person or just feel loved. You know, feel connected and feel like they belong and they're worth something. But when you see that and you hear it and you understand the impact that you're having, at that point it just does something to you. It's like one of the most beautiful things that you can do.
Speaker 1:So I think that giving back element and being purpose driven I think every business should be like that and every person involved in a business in every in any way should give up their time and let their employees give up their time to give him back. It's a it's a good thing. So I love that, mate, I absolutely love that. And with those, with those children then. So why vulnerable, like what, where you said as young as four years old thinking about suicide and things like that? Is this because they're coming from really broken homes, are they? Do they have mental health problems? What's their?
Speaker 2:stories. It can be a range of things. So some are from underprivileged and deprived backgrounds, some are not. Some are from very wealthy families that just have mental health problems. You know, might have been bullied at school, maybe no rhyme or reason, just just has that has just happened, you know. Or OCD, all those kinds of conditions that children unfortunately have now. Um and yeah and so, or they've just, you know, it might not be that they have really anything like that, or they're just a very quiet person. Um, you know, it might not be that they have really anything like that, or they're just a very quiet person. Somewhere, you know, their families have gone into care. They've been separated as children. So they look after the Riding School looks after 120 children a week at the moment, all from Milton Keynes. So that just shows how many families we have that are in this problem area, I suppose. And then, yeah, and they're not all underp. So yeah, we're all diverse range I think it's non.
Speaker 1:It's definitely non-discriminating, isn't it? You know it would affect everybody from every walk of life. No one is, no one is. You know, everyone's susceptible, and I think there are some people more so than others, without a shadow of a doubt. And you know we're all wired very differently as humans. Some people struggle to fit in. You know, that's a real one. That I've seen is just, they just struggle to fit in in life and can't find their place, and that could be like a neurodivergence type situation. They find it difficult just genuinely interacting with people and often they find themselves in a lonely, isolated place and they don't even realize that they might have asd or something along those lines. And until they have those conversations in a safe space and start interacting with other people, they start to recognize okay, there's a, perhaps there's a reason why I'm this way and I feel that way, and having that safe space where people can talk instead of keeping it inside like, I'm a massively passionate person about this. So what you're're doing now, I love it. So well done, keep that up.
Speaker 2:That's what it's all about, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Business development is a struggle for a lot of people in financial planning. So they get their qualifications, get them under the belt and then kind of almost think that because they've got the qualifications, the clients will come to them knocking on their door asking for advice. Have you got any hints? Have you got any tips? Have you got any strategies that somebody could follow? So if someone came to you and said I really need some help with business development, what would you say to them?
Speaker 2:I'd say who are you meeting this week? What are you doing to meet people? Yeah, unless you put yourself out there and go and meet people, it doesn't matter who they are. You don't even need to meet clients. You just need to meet people, because people bring opportunity. Um, they might know the person that needs to know you, they might need know the business owner that needs to know you, the accountant or the lawyer or the something. Um, I, like I said earlier on, I genuinely probably two, three, four days a week. If I didn't have meetings, I didn't just sit at my desk because that's not going to help. I just got out there, um, and that really paid dividend after about two years. It was really hard for two years not impossible, but hard and then after two years, when I'd had so many clients you know however many it was at that time I'd start getting the referrals as well. But also I built a brand. I think for the first few years I probably cried every day yeah, I shouldn't laugh, but yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2:But it was. I was like what am I doing? Why am I doing this? What is the point? Is there any point? Got through it, obviously, eventually. And then I would say year five, that's when it got really easy. Not easy, that's a hard, that's a in comparison to what it was like, it just got easier. I guess I'd established myself um so much more. I had so many more clients under management, and so the referrals were just. You know, I went on holiday last week. I come back to four really solid referrals, a couple from accountants and a couple from existing clients. So I don't have to worry now if I take time off, where's the work coming from? It's not like I've just put my feet up and, you know, worried about it. So, yeah, I think, just meet people, anyone yeah.
Speaker 1:So interesting point those first couple of years if you put energy and effort into prospecting it's going to pay dividends later on down the line. So it's not a job role really where you have to be prospecting every single day, because once you reach the limit of the clients that you can work with, you can pause and you can work on other areas of the business because you've got that level of recurring income in that you've been working hard to achieve. But those individuals don't just land on your lap, do they? You have to get out there, you have to be uncomfortable, you have to knock on a few doors, you have to meet a few people to be established and to be recognized and to be a trusted person that somebody can refer business into you. Is that why you went for business to business? Because of the referral aspects?
Speaker 2:not necessarily, I think, because of the networking that I did. I generally was meeting more business owners, so it was just a natural progression, and then business owners do generally know business owners. So, yeah, I think it's more from that regard really, that it just kind of happened plus my existing network from before and utilizing people from a joint perspective from me and my partner, who we already knew. I go to David Lloyd gym. You can sit there all day and meet plenty of business owners. So, building relationships in places like that actually, because nine times out of 10, if they're sat working from a laptop from there, it's because they're in between meetings or you know.
Speaker 2:So, just utilizing everything that I already had, I didn't have to go and do loads more, but I had to be mindful of how much time I was doing, because if I didn't have anything else to do, why wouldn't I just go and do another networking meeting or something? Because actually sitting at home isn't going to bring me clients. Um, and I think it's different in London. I think London, um networking, you have quite a lot of employed people, whereas around the Winston Keynes area, when you networking, most of the people that are there are actually self-employed or run their own businesses. So I think, from area to area that probably differs as well depending on what types of groups you're attending.
Speaker 1:So if someone was thinking about approaching business owners as clients, what would be your kind of killer questions, if you like, or biggest opportunities for business owners when it comes to financial planning?
Speaker 2:do they have one? Do they have a plan? Um, what's their exit strategy? So, most well, a lot of business owners don't have a business plan. That baffles me. If you don't know where you're going, how do you know that you're going to get there, or how do you know how to get there? So, so, firstly I say let's sit down, curate your plan, what's your exit? And work backwards Also. Then we can look at profit how much, you know, corporation tax, are we paying? Is there any way that we can, you know, extract the pensions? Let's speak to your accountant. Does it, you know, meet the holding and exclusively test? Can we do that?
Speaker 2:Um, looking after your staff, so, staff retention. When's the last time you looked at your employee benefits packages? You know, are you offering them medical insurance? Because you might not be able to afford to give them a pay rise this year, but you might be able to afford to give them medical insurance and that means they won't get that down the road. Um, so they're not going to leave. So that's going to help you retain your staff and show that you're looking after them.
Speaker 2:Also, for a few local businesses, probably once a quarter I go and do a drop-in. So, from a mental well-being perspective for the employer. They have me come and do an admin day. I'll sit base an admin day from their offices and any of their staff can come and ask me any questions, whether that's help with pensions, want to retire or invest some money, or I haven't got any money and I'm scared. Talk to me, um, so that obviously gives me opportunity. It satisfies my objective of giving back a little.
Speaker 2:I think obviously, financial education is quite important, although it's not my. Look, you know you see a lot of financial advisors, maybe on Instagram, leading with that. That's not why I do it, it's not for Instagram, it's just I like to do it. Um, and off the back of that, I do get the odd client that has like four, five, six pensions. They say, oh, I want to work with somebody, I need advice, I want to retire in six years. Show me how I can do that. So, yeah, for my time, I give half a day of my time. In return, I get opportunity. So think outside the box, go and meet people. Yeah, that's all part of my meeting people at networking. I've met all these people, um, have these conversations with them, and that leads to opportunity great.
Speaker 1:Give something away for free. I always think that's a value, even if it's just a 15 minute conversation. Yeah, um, like I, I the amount of times I've given something for free, like we're doing with my podcast. It's free content, people learn from it. I've been doing that for years. It costs me money to put a podcast out.
Speaker 1:That was my marketing budget in the recruitment business. I was spending it on creating a podcast that was giving back to others to teach them about a profession that doesn't really talk about what it's like to work in it. So people got a benefit that were in the profession because they could hear their peers talking for once. But other people were then aware of the profession and thought, well, now I get it, I understand it, I will come in, I will join the sjp academy or I will join that local ifa firm. I will pursue a career because I understand it more now and then from that, the knock-on effect, as you rightfully said, like year one, year two, no one, no one gives you anything. And now I've got the likes of legal in general as my client and I'm producing their podcast. I've just produced the podcast for the pfs the wealth of women.
Speaker 1:I'm now the head of creative for a financial planning company, international and based in dubai. You know it's like I'm working with some amazing brands. It's like it's it's insane. So it's kind of like you don't. You don't get a quick return from things, right, but you can. There are some quick wins, there are some sniper. You've got to make money in the beginning, but unfortunately, unfortunately, you've got to work twice as hard, three times as hard in the beginning. Um, and that's just the way it is. But some great tips and some great hints there around business owners. Now, being a female in the financial planning profession there's not many of you, and does that give you an edge when you're out there as a financial planner? Are you working with men? Are you working with women, female clients? Is there an opportunity for females? There's a lot of women out there. Not a lot of female financial advisors. Does that create an opportunity? Being a female?
Speaker 2:I do feel like like, um, maybe controversial, but a lot of female financial advisors are like power to the women. I only want to work with females. That is not me. I have 50, 50, literally 50. I think it's 54 to 56 percent split, or whatever it is, on clients and business, goodness me, male and female clients. So do I prefer one over the other? No, I don't. I think that we're each a different.
Speaker 2:So women are, I believe, financial planners. We're maybe a bit more meticulous just because of the detail. Women are nosy, like we can ask questions, more questions than a man would ask, I believe, and that's just because that's what we do. Um, so can I put a strategy together and I can almost guarantee the client's not going to say no because of how well I know them and all the questions I've asked. Probably I like working with women, but only women that want to take control. I'm not necessarily the right person that needs somebody who's going to babysit them, because I'm not very fluffy, so I don't match and I'll always know if I'm not right for the client and they're not right for me.
Speaker 2:Men, really straightforward, as long as I go, this is what we're going gonna do and this is why they're like great, any questions? No, perfect. So it's more. More, I would say. Rather than men versus women, it's more people who have a direct approach. Um, that I just gravitate towards because it's yeah, this is what we're going to do, this is why we're going to do it. How does it sound?
Speaker 1:great, lovely, done work, working with the clients that you want to work with and having the courage to turn down the ones that you know are not right. The amount of times I've made a mistake where I've taken somebody on for the money in in whatever line of work and I've just been like, oh god, I gotta deal with that person again.
Speaker 2:Oh my god and it just doesn't work, doesn't it? And?
Speaker 1:they want the moon on a stick and they're asking for more, more more from you and you're thinking hang about. You're taking the piss here and I've had to dump a few clients in the past because of that, but I feel good for it. I like working with people who I work with, who value what it is that I do and aren't constantly critiquing or criticizing me. I love feedback.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong yeah, but respect yeah, I'm not that subservient type relationship it's. It's not for me. I've I've never been like that in any, even in my running a company. I've always been very um, on the same level as everybody else. I don't particularly want to have that hierarchy within a business, for instance. I don't like it. Um, I like working with people, I like being creative with people, working alongside learning from that person they learn from me and having that openness and I think it builds a stronger, deeper relationship. So, um, and I think when it's a conversation about money, I mean you need that, don't you? You know, you do need to know what you're talking about and being qualified and being that person who can say look, you know, I think maybe you're making the wrong decision or the right decision or whatnot. But at the same time, though, I think people, it's quite a motive journey, so you have to be willing to open up and you and be a bit nosy, like you say.
Speaker 1:That's something I like talking to women, for that very reason that women tend to go a bit deeper than men, do we?
Speaker 1:overshare yeah, but I'm also very analytical when I break things down all the time. I like to go deeper and further. I'm interested in more and more and more and more, and I think women have, um, a natural ability to do that. Yeah, I don't know why. Some men do, of course, obviously, but you tend to find those men are also men that spend quite a lot of time with women as well, if I'm honest. So I think that there is that.
Speaker 1:What was I saying to you? I don't want, like my podcast, for instance, as I explained to the new social media manager today, I don't want my podcast or my brand to be appealing to just men or just women. I'm looking for that complete inclusivity. I want everybody to be interested in it and I want to talk to everybody in a way that I would talk to them and be relatable to everybody. I think it's possible, um, but some people like to hang their hat on being quite, you know, male, or they like to be hanging their hat on being quite feminine.
Speaker 1:But it's brand isn't it? It's who you're appealing to. And are you even niching down into a specific sex? And do you even need to? For me, I can't be that way, because I'm trying to create a fully inclusive profession. I'm trying to be this conduit to the profession and show people what it's like. And we're all different in this profession. We're all doing different jobs and we're all working different ways and we will have our different personalities and I think it's important to showcase that I think you'd have.
Speaker 2:You can have a look at me like, for example, I wouldn't say that I'm a traditional financial planner. Um, am I gonna turn up in a suit? No, I'm not. Um, so if you want somebody in a suit to come, don't you're not going to work with me. Um, yeah, and I always actually struggle with that. I always think what am I supposed to wear? And I do ask my. My clients don't care, I can turn up in jeans and a hoodie, for all they cared. But if I go to an SJP event, it takes me two days to plan what I'm going to wear because I think, oh, what's that person going to think? I'm, and I'm probably walking into a room that are 90% male in a standard suit. They all look the same. I don't want to. I don't want to look the same, and I get that is probably my biggest anxiety about dressing as a financial advisor is, when I go to an event with other financial advisors, who am I supposed to be? And I feel like I can't be myself. That's awful, isn't it?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, I'm kind of experiencing that at the moment it's a very traditional, uh, white shirt type brogues and suit trousers in in.
Speaker 1:Holston, um of which you know I have total respect for by the way, yeah, if you want to do that, fine, if you want to do that um, but I've always been a black jeans and a black t-shirt guy, because the less I have to think about what I have to wear, the happier I am when I'm having to think about, you know, am I wearing the right? Am I wearing a shirt and tie? And I and I feel uncomfortable with those. Actually, it doesn't make me feel creative, it doesn't make me feel like I want to put those clothes on, whereas a jeans and a t-shirt I'm smart, with it, I feel like right, I'm relaxed. Now I can actually get on with what I want to do because I'm wearing the clothes I want to wear and more often, not. You know, I've sat down with some really wealthy people over my time and most of them are scruff bags.
Speaker 1:You know some of the most wealthy people I know just you wouldn't have a clue that they were wealthy because, to look at, you think they're just scruff bags. But and and you know I don't know it's a funny one, the old um.
Speaker 1:The image, I think, of a financial planner is changing a lot and I think we people have to dress according to the clients that they're looking after. And when you look at social media youtube and being able to go into somebody's living room and create content like, if you like, okay, and be on their tv in their living room, does somebody want someone in their living room in a shirt and tie or do they want somebody in their living room whilst they're on the couch watching it wearing a t-shirt and in and relaxed in their environment? I suppose, because I'm a social media person, I prefer that approach, because most people are trying to relax when they're watching content and I want to be relaxed with them, you know yeah, fully agreed listen.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for sharing your career journey on the financial planner life podcast. Um, it's obviously being a wonderful experience for you transitioning from mortgage advice into uh, financial advice. It's definitely an area I think we can attract more financial planners. It's from the mortgage profession. I think if mortgage advisors just understand that, that transition can happen and create a recurring income for you as well. It's hugely beneficial. But you don't have to give up selling mortgages. You don't have to give up advising on that whatsoever. It can be part of your strategy. It was your strategy in St James's place. Now you've got your own partner practice and you're living the life that you want to live. You're helping other people, you're delivering financial planning and you're working with professional introducers and it sounds to me like you're having a wicked time. So thank you so much for sharing your journey today thanks, sam cheers.
