Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
Be sure to check out
Financial Planner Life Academy - start your career today!
https://financialplannerlife.com/academy/
Financial Planner Life Podcast
Father & Son in Finance: How St. James’s Place Academy Shapes Careers & Succession
Would you trust a financial planner under 30?
There’s a big debate in financial planning: Does age matter?
Some say younger advisors lack life experience—that they can’t guide clients through retirement, divorce, or legacy planning. Others argue that young planners bring fresh perspectives, long-term commitment, and up-to-date knowledge.
After sitting down with Karl and Harry—a father-son duo from St. James’s Place—on the Financial Planner Lifepodcast, I’ve seen both sides of the coin.
Karl has spent nearly 40 years in financial planning, taking over his father’s business at just 20 after an unexpected loss.
Harry, his son, started his career as a musician before transitioning into financial advice via the SJP Academy. Now, at 27, he’s already leading client meetings and preparing to take over the firm.
Their approach to succession planning is a lesson for all financial planning firms:
✅ Clients aren’t waking up to a sudden change—they’ve seen Harry stepping in for years.
✅ Karl isn’t rushing out the door—he’s mentoring Harry while slowly shifting responsibilities.
✅ Harry isn’t just inheriting a business—he’s growing it, with a modern mindset and fresh ideas.
The best part? Their philosophy isn’t just about money. They focus on ROL (Return on Life), not just ROI (Return on Investment).
I asked Harry if he ever feels clients don’t take him seriously because of his age. His response?
“At first, maybe. But after a few conversations, if you know your stuff, clients trust you. Plus, they know I’ll be here for the next 30 years—can they say the same about an advisor nearing retirement?”
👉 What do you think? Would you trust a financial planner in their 20s, or do you believe experience only comes with age?
Begin your financial planning career journey today
Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
Be sure to follow financial planner life on YouTube for extra content about a career within Financial Planning HIT THAT SUBSCRIBE BUTTON!
If you're looking to start your career in Financial Planning, check out the Financial Planner Life Academy here
Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or career development.
And today's guests on the Financial Planner Live podcast are a father and son duo from St James's Place. We've got Carl, who's been running his practice for quite a few decades, and we've got his son, Harry, who's quite new to the profession after a career as a professional musician. Now we also talk about the power of the St James's Place Academy, how that's helped with their succession planning, how it's helped train Harry to be able to do the job of financial planning. We talk about his future aspirations taking over the family business. I think you're going to love this podcast episode. Hi guys, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you both?
Speaker 2:Really good. Thanks for asking Sam. How about you? Yeah?
Speaker 1:not bad at all. Thank you very much. Not bad at all. I was just saying I've literally just got off of another podcast with three people in total, including myself. So I never usually do threesomes on the podcast, but here we go. We've got another one to actually do so interestingly as well. That podcast was also about succession planning and the benefits of hiring a younger advisor into the financial planning business. And, harry, you are definitely a younger advisor. Carl, you are definitely looking to exit the industry. I didn't say you're definitely an older advisor there did I. You're definitely looking to exit the industry.
Speaker 1:I didn't say you were definitely an older advisor there, did I. You're definitely looking to exit the industry, but the difference here is father and son outfit. Right, yeah, yes, indeed, fantastic. Well, let's get our audience knowing you straight away, then. So why don't you just give us a little bit of background stories for you both? So let's start with you, carl, first. What's your background stories for you both? So?
Speaker 2:let's start with you, Carl. First. What's your background? Yeah, so originally when I was at school, I was an air cadet and I wanted to go in the RAF. But my father, who was in financial planning at the time he went to parents' evening and business studies and accounts Teachers said Carl's got a flair for this. So he came home to me and said you're not going in the RAF sunshine, You're going to do a two-year apprenticeship with me and if you still like it after that, then you can carry on running the business in due course or you can go and pursue the RAF career. So here we are, 39 years later. So at the age of 16, I left school. I did an apprenticeship with my father. Sadly, he died suddenly after my 20th birthday. So it was a case that I had to literally pick up the baton and run with it as a 20-year-old. And, like I say, here we are 39 years later, Right?
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've done a 39 career within financial services, mainly financial advice. Right, okay Do you ever look back and wish you were a pilot.
Speaker 2:No, I think the opportunities that we've got in this profession is absolutely fantastic. You know the wealth that you're able to kind of create in terms of building your own business, the kind of income structure model, and to serve people and help them to kind of realise their dreams. It's a huge honour to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:It's always been one of those very glamorous roles, isn't it, being a pilot. But you often see them sort of running from one to another and they look absolutely knackered and dishevelled, or sleeping at the airport or whatever. I don't think it's as glamorous as it sounds, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't planning on being a pilot, I was going to be a rock ape. So for anybody who knows what that is, that's the RAF regiment who deals with the security and defence of the base. So it's not quite the glamorous thing of rocking up in Top Gun style in your whites and sort of singing that sort of famous song and attracting young ladies. It was more about running around in camo gear and doing all that good stuff. It's a huge honour to have Harry in the practice as the third generation in the family. Well, fantastic.
Speaker 1:So third generation of financial services. So, harry, you're now working with your dad in the partner practice of St James' Place and we'll get onto that, but what were you doing prior then?
Speaker 3:And why did you end up getting into financial planning? So I got into it, I think probably because I've been surrounded by it my entire life. Obviously, when you, I think, naturally as a an inquisitive child, you always pay an interest in what your dad is is up to. So I was always asking questions about work and what he does and things like that and didn't really think much of it. And then I left school at 18 and when I left school at 18 I was in bands at the time and wanted to kind of pursue my music career. You can see the guitars behind me. I'm a musician at heart as well. So naturally, music when you're at the grassroots level you don't get paid, or if you do get paid, you don't get paid. Well, so for me it was always about a means to an end, about supporting the lifestyle that I wanted to kind of pursue, which was seeing where the bands would go.
Speaker 3:So I joined the business and my dad and it literally started with scanning paperwork. That's where it started. I was literally sat there kind of seven, eight hours a day scanning paperwork and then the role kind of grew from there into kind of more of an admin-based role, power planning, work, that kind of stuff. But there was only kind of enough work to do two and a half days a week, something like that. So I had to find something else as well. So I was joining an accountancy practice that we work really closely with, and I started to train as an accountant at the same time.
Speaker 3:So I was doing my band work, the accountancy training, and then the financial planning side of things as well, and then it just got unsustainable. To be honest with you, sam, I couldn't keep all three of them going at the same time. So I had to start planning ahead about okay, well, what do I see myself doing in 10 years' time? And actually, when I sat down with myself and kind of just had that tough conversation, this is where I wanted to be. And when I made that decision, I made that decision straight away and kind of went good, ok, well, I'll can off the accountancy, I'll phase the band work out and I'll push forwards ahead with this. And then from there I went into the SJP Academy, and then we are where we are today.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So what stage are you at in your career right now? Then, Harry, how long have you been in the financial planning business? You mentioned about the academy gone through it? Where are you in your career right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so within the business or our business, I've been working in it for just over nine years. I had a notification that came up on my phone the other week saying that I've been in the business nine years. Obviously that includes that time where I was just doing basic admin work. I went through the academy September 20 till April 21. And then from then onwards I've been kind of client facing financial planning with clients. So we're just over three years out of that now, so quite early on in my career, but kind of helping to grow the business, business and ultimately you mentioned it already about that whole succession planning side of things that's what we're working towards as well.
Speaker 1:So, carl, tell us a little bit about what stage you are at in your career. Then, harry, being at the beginning, by the sounds of it, where are you?
Speaker 2:So I've got one eye on the on the exit door, you might say so. Harry's part of the succession plan that we have in our practice. So um iv's back to working three to four days a week now, depending on the workflow that we've got within the practice um. But the idea is that actually in about 18 months time harry will become the practice principal um and I'll move across then to being um more in, more of a consulting role, more of a chairperson type role, if you you like, with the team and the practice. So that's kind of really energising because it's allowing Harry to come forward as the new guard, really equally giving me more time to pursue the things that I want to do.
Speaker 1:Oh, fantastic. So, Harry, how has the St James's Place Academy helped you during that process then? Has it been good training, good development, good grounding to be able to become the next person running the family business?
Speaker 3:Very much so. When I was reflecting upon this and what it's actually given me, I think, just going back to the point, I left school at 18 and didn't go off to university, like I've kind of already alluded to simply because I didn't know what I wanted to go off and do at that time. And then, when I made the decision to kind of come down this route, the academy was the perfect route to go. A large part of that was to do with time. Yeah, so I was through the academy in six months, rather than going off to university for three or four years and then having to build a career at that point. It kind of gave me opportunity to go. Okay, I got a base level of knowledge here already. I'll do it for six months, come out fully qualified and I can be building my business straight away.
Speaker 3:I think that that was a really great tool to have there. So from a time aspect, from support aspects, they were. They were great. Um, you're there every single day. The right people were kind of surrounded by you, giving you the right training. So, whether that was client facing people skills or more of the technical side of things, they always had the right people in the right places to impart that upon you. So that was always really good.
Speaker 3:Like I've kind of said there, client facing skills as well, it's not something that I'd ever really done before. I'd maybe spoken to people on the phone and things like that, but never really had to deal with kind of conversation and kind of unpacking what people are saying and kind of probing and those kind of skills and leading people in the right direction. So all of that was really useful as well. And then actually the support you get from the academy doesn't stop when you exit. So when you leave the academy and you enter kind of the partnership, the support kind of continues. So you've still got development managers around you that are from the academy as well. So you have that for another kind of six, 12 months or so. So actually that process is really smooth. It's really smooth from training into to kind of implementation.
Speaker 1:Fantastic and Carl. From from your perspective then, being a partner practice owner, has the st james's place academy helped you on board, harry, without you having to put too much energy and effort into it, or is it kind of complemented your approach to on the job training?
Speaker 2:it's been invaluable, to be honest with you, sam because at the end of the day, as Harry said, he came out of the academy, he was qualified, he had some soft skills training and let's not forget also that the cohort of people that he went through the academy with were mature people who'd had other careers, and that was excellent, in my view, in terms of Harry's personal and professional development.
Speaker 2:You know rubbing shoulders with good people, so for me it was more of a point of then sort of fine tuning things for him. So it was minimal disruption to the practice, which means that we could get him up and running really, really well and he was making an impact straight away. And I think it's what makes the SJP model really really attractive, because ultimately, for practice principals like me, it means that you can get these people into the practice and up and running quickly. So I think it's a win-win situation. It works well for the partnership, but it also works well for the continuity of SJP, because when I see people now coming through the Academy, the quality of young professional people coming through, I just find it really encouraging and I'm excited about their futures.
Speaker 1:So, harry, how old were you when you graduated from the Academy?
Speaker 3:I would have been 24, just turned 24, only a couple of months before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so are you aware of the stats? I think it's about 1200 advisors under the age of 30 years old.
Speaker 1:I think about 150 under the age of 25 yeah, you are you know to graduate at that age and be out there delivering financial planning? Is you know it's? Um, you're in a very small percentage that have done it? Now I put a post out. I commented on a post recently and someone said people under the age of 30 being financial planners is too much of a risk, that they haven't developed enough as human beings and adults to be able to have the responsibility of managing somebody's money. Um, or to relate to specific life events that someone might have divorce, retirement, death, all these types of things. Life experience apparently isn't enough. But interesting comment and there is a distinct lack of younger people in the financial planning profession. What's your take on that? Do you feel like being a younger advisor, that that's not the case, that you are being treated with the same respect from clients, for example, as maybe your dad?
Speaker 3:so you get treated with the same respects, but you have to earn it and I think you probably have to earn it more than maybe someone of a similar age. Um, that would that would show up. Um, I think, simply because you're right, there are stereotypes around there that if you're young, you don't have the experience or the knowledge or kind of the life experience to be able to have those in-depth, meaningful conversations that actually really delve down into the detail which allows you to do your job properly and actually give the right advice. So I think age is something that I've had to kind of fight against a little bit, but more so with kind of cold people, new people that are coming in who don't necessarily know me, but actually give them two or three conversations with you. If you're good enough, you'll put them at ease and actually that kind of then goes away.
Speaker 3:Also, I think people these days are now starting to think about am I going to have an advisor that is going to see me through my life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so people get retired, their lives are important to them and actually that life stage change going okay.
Speaker 3:Well, I need someone here to kind of guide me through this, and is that person going to be here and going to see me through my life. Now, if you're showing up and you're kind of 60, 65 and you're an advisor, the chances are you're not going to be working for the next 30 or so years. So actually for them, having someone a bit younger who they know in all likelihood is going to be around for them to see them through their lives actually is a really powerful tool. Is going to be around for them to see them through their lives actually is a really powerful tool. And also it doesn't just apply to young people. But, like I've said, I've just gone through the academy, I'm working my way through my exams to go to higher qualifications as well. So actually my knowledge is kind of on the right, up to date. It's kind of as up to date as it possibly can be as well, rather than kind of having earned the stripes and kind of took my foot off the gas, as it were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good point, I suppose, isn't it? It's fresh in your mind, whereas Carl, maybe it's not as fresh in your mind. You haven't just done your qualifications right. So I think that is kind of like an argument, isn't it? When you've just gone through the process, you're I don't know the truth perhaps, but you know that's not to say that people who haven't done their qualifications recently I don't know what they're talking about, but maybe you get where I'm coming from it's kind of like you're, you're, you're, you're so fresh in it that you're kind of double checking everything you know.
Speaker 1:You're making sure that everything you're saying is right. Interestingly, you sort of mentioned about the being the advisor for the rest of their life, I being the advisor for the rest of their life. I think that is a really good angle and it's one that a lot of young advisors that I speak to use, that, yeah, I may be young, but I'm going to be with you for the next 25, 30 years. So I'm going to be with you on your whole journey and I think, from your perspective then, carl, having the ability to pass your clients on then to your son, and knowing that they're in safe hands and that you're not just selling it on to somebody that isn't connected to you must be quite reassuring as well oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean it's. It's a story that we've we've been telling our, our clients, for probably 10 years. It's like you know, I won't be here forever and there is a succession plan, but the third generation layman will come through and and look after you, and I guess that kind of continuity is is really important to them because they're not just rocking up one day and finding that they've got a new advisor and they don't know who they are, they don't know what their values are, etc. There's a kind of family standard that we have within the practice and it makes that transition easy because we've actually transferred most of the client base already over to Harry. So he does most of the client work in terms of client facing meetings and I do more of the kind of business development side of things now, and the transition of that has been exceedingly easy, hasn't it Harry?
Speaker 3:It does. Yeah, yeah, we had to work at it, didn't we? We had to put a proper plan in place. It's kind of ironic. Here's financial planners this is what we do, but we had to put a proper plan in place to make sure that that process was as smooth as possible for ourselves as much as for the clients as well.
Speaker 2:It's quite nice when I've had clients text me following meetings and saying, carl, why did you not transfer me over to harry sooner? He's much better than you, which is great. You always want your kids to be better, uh, than than than you were, and um, it's. It's a great testament to harry. It's all the hard work he's put in, but also the fact that he's got such a great growth mindset and he'll absorb all sorts of stuff. He'll take it on board and he'll just add it to his armory. It's uh, it's a pleasure to watch sort of long term.
Speaker 1:Then harry have you when you think about taking the business forward. What does it look like in in your head?
Speaker 3:that's something that I've had to think about quite a lot, I would say, over the last 12, 18 months, as we've started to have the conversations about me buying into the business and actually ultimately buying it off dad as he moves out of the business. Each client still has that intimate face-to-face kind of relationship I think is the right word and it is a relationship. It's not transactional in any way. They're not kind of customers or anything like that. It's actually a deep relationship and actually I think keeping the business at that size where you can maintain that, I think is really important. And if you do want to grow the business, it's about bringing in the right people as well.
Speaker 3:So recruitment is something that obviously I will look to. If I need to replace that. Ultimately, in kind of three, five years time, I'll have to work out who that right person is as well. They have to be the right person for the way that we do things within the business as well. But yeah, my goal is to kind of take the business and take it to at least kind of triple to where it is at the moment, before I even start to think about what's next for me. But at the moment it's just about getting off the ground. I'm only three years into being an advisor. It's about gaining all of those skills that we've been talking about a lot and then, when ultimately the succession comes around, then starting to think bigger picture about OK well, who else needs to come into the business and support me and our clients as well? Ok, cool.
Speaker 1:What about your philosophy then as a business? Your philosophy around, say, financial planning? What is it?
Speaker 2:So I guess we describe ourselves as being proper financial life planners, which there's a backstory to that. I almost quit the profession because the old way was really much a focus on selling products, ie financial advice, and thankfully I didn't. I retrained as a coach. I also become a certified financial planner through what was the Institute of Financial Planning and then subsequently a chartered wealth manager, and our philosophy is helping people to engineer what their kind of life plan looks like, first and foremost, and then looking at the financial plan to see how it can support that life plan and then, and only then if necessary, doing the financial advice thing.
Speaker 2:So we have this phrase where we talk to people and say we focus on ROL, not ROI. So that's the kind of return on life rather than return on investment. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, sam, our view is that money is just an energy, isn't it? It allows us to do stuff, good or bad, but it's an enabler. But unless you know with crystal clear clarity exactly what people want, what their dreams are, what their hopes are, what keeps them awake at night, then our view is we don't have the right to tell them what to do with their money. Do you agree, harry, with that?
Speaker 3:I would agree. I would agree. I mean, saving, investing is all very well and good, but why it is understanding that, why that is really, really important and actually I think for us to do our jobs properly, we need to be able to understand that, to make sure that, ultimately, the advice that we give is 100% the right thing to be doing.
Speaker 1:So, harry, how do you approach that then, when it comes to having that conversation with a client, because I can imagine they sit down in front of you and they think you're going to start talking about numbers it sounds to me like you're talking about energy and flow and purpose. How do you approach those types of meetings?
Speaker 3:I don't know what you're like, deb, but I'm quite upfront about the facts. So when I sit down for that first life planning meeting with a potential client or a new client, I make the point at the beginning that, look, you might think that I'm a financial advisor. I'm a financial life planner. I'm here to talk to you about finances, about money. Forget that for the next hour and a half. Forget it for the next hour and a half. All we're going to talk about is you, your values, your dreams, your goals, what it is that ultimately you want to go away and achieve. So that actually, when we know that, when we bring the finances in, it all then starts to make sense we see this all the time.
Speaker 3:Where people go I'm chucking away X amount of money per month and it feels good for kind of two or three months or six months or a year, then people kind of tend to forget why they're doing what they're doing and actually getting them to really focus on this life planning element, to start off with it. It's like an anchor, isn't it almost? To kind of keep coming back to, to go. Oh, that's the reason that I'm doing X, y and Z. So actually, the longer the process goes on, the more it makes sense.
Speaker 3:What's your favorite question to ask to get them thinking? That's a really good question. Actually, I think the whole way you see yourself in 10 years' time is a really powerful one. It's the most basic question that you can ask, but I think it gets people to think deeper than just surface level answers and then actually from that you can then unpick it a little bit more about okay, well, tell me a little bit more about why that's important to you, and actually you then start to get the really important answer. So it might sound daft, but actually just asking those surface level questions and then peeling back the layers from there tends to work quite well.
Speaker 1:Carl? Is this something that you've passed on to Harry? Then, is this a philosophy that you've always had, or is it something you learned along the way? Where did it come from?
Speaker 2:So in my early part of my career as an IFA, it was very much focusing on the latest, shiniest new product or rat platform, whatever it may be, and and the reason why I almost quit the profession was because of that. So when, when I decided not to my wife, sarah um, she's a clinical psychologist by background, so she did some coaching with me and and extracted from me some of what my core values are, and and she challenged me, she said look, I think you're really good at what you do, but can you not redesign what the typical sort of advisor is doing out there? Which is where the whole dream it planet, live it philosophy came from, because, uh, working with people, almost like in a kind of coaching capacity I can remember when I was first doing it, you know the the compliance officers at SJP were going what are you doing? You know it's almost like you're messing with people's minds, and I said well, actually all we're doing is actually asking really discerning, soft facts questions. You know. So the more you understand your client though your client is a regulator principle the more you understand your client, the better equipped that you can be.
Speaker 2:So out of that was born the kind of dream it, plan it, live it philosophy, which is something that you know I surrounded myself with, you know good people like Paul Armisen, and you know inspiring advisors, and you know other people in the profession as well, and then we kind of refined it. Refined it and find out what worked. You know on our personalities and we have this process in our practice, which we call your financial life plan, and that's what we use, which is a bit of an amalgam of lots of different people's thinkings and, obviously, our own experience over the last 20 years. Now.
Speaker 1:So you've written some books as well around this. Tell us a little bit about those books that you, that you've, um, that you've wrote. What do they cover?
Speaker 2:so dream it, planet live. It was the first one that was released in 2015. Um, so that was, um. There's a backstory to that as well. So steven sutton, uh, was a teenage lad um dying of cancer. Um, people might be familiar with steven's story. It was about this lad who had a terminal sort of diagnosis and basically he was trying to do a number of things you know on his bucket list, and then it went beyond that. He actually wanted to kind of raise £10,000 for the Teenage Cancer Trust and I got involved because I was chairing a business group near his area at the time and I used to take Stephen around to different speaking gigs and his positivity was just inspiring, bearing in mind, you know he didn't know how long he had left to live, but he knew that the clock was, you know, ticking on, as it were, and I can remember parking up at a place and saying to Stephen you know, I said gosh.
Speaker 2:I said you know how, as it were. And I can remember parking up at a place and saying to Stephen you know, I said gosh. I said you know how can you be so positive when you you're staring at this? And and he said Carl, the thing is. He said you've got a limited life. You just haven't realized it yet and and and got hairs up the back of my neck now as I say that out loud. But he said to me you know, actually, I think you've got a book in you. And I said, well, it's interesting. You should say that I've kept all these notes over the last sort of 20 years.
Speaker 2:And he challenged me to write the book, which is where the Dream it, plan it, live it book came out, and there's actually a testament to Stephen in the book. So that's where that one came from, and the idea behind that was basically to help people facilitate a bucket list, get their brain thinking what's really important to them in life. We all have these ideas of what's important, but what is really important? So that kind of psychological perspective really of understanding oneself and then helping people to get some clarity in terms of what financial ducks they need to get lined up in a row to be able to create what we call a freedom fund, in other words, a pot of money that allows them to make work optional. So that's where that book came from. The second one which I'm trying to think now, that came out in November 2022. Yes, november 2022, which is money, mind meaning.
Speaker 2:Now that one took it onto another level, because the feedback that we had was the first book was great for those pre-retirements. It really got them to think about their future. But for people who were staring at the door at retirement, or indeed in retirement, living that kind of best life or you know, that life of abundance, whatever you want to call it, sam, it was written more for them and I guess during the COVID years I did a lot of research into things like happiness and, you know, abundance and where that comes from. So a lot of that book is dedicated to kind of really what our meaning for being is on here, and I know that sounds a little bit woo-woo, but ultimately you know we're here to make you know a particular stamp on planet Earth and what does that mean. So that was a real passion, that book, and it seems to touch a number of people's hearts. Really. I think, no, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:And, harry, is that something that you also echo? You know the thoughts and everything that's gone into these books. Were they written together or were they something that you've kind of taken upon reading and had passed down from your dad, for instance?
Speaker 3:The latter. So I was around for both books in terms of the process, seeing what was involved with it. I was involved with both books in terms of um, I guess, kind of getting pulling them all together, but not so much the content that was in there. That's very much um from from my dad and from his heart rather than the mine. I had the honor of writing the forward to the second book, though, which is interesting, so I did manage to get some of my own stuff in there, but it's stuff that I've been taking on board for the last nine years.
Speaker 3:I know I've been an advisor for the last three, but actually I've been in the business for the last nine years. So I've started to pick up the culture, the values that we hold and actually the way that I feel is right to go about financial planning, and it is all in those books. It is all in those books. It is all in those books. So whilst it's not my name on the bottom of the book, those values are still close to my heart and the way that I do business as well.
Speaker 1:So you're delivering the book to your clients. Yes, yeah, lovely. And do you feel like it does build a deeper connection with the client?
Speaker 3:I think so. I mean it's hard to say for sure, because obviously I've not been part of the other world of not doing that, whereas dad has. But I can't see how it wouldn't, you know, asking those questions, the deeper questions, getting people to think about, really think about what's important to them, I can't see how that wouldn't have that impact on people's lives.
Speaker 1:You see, lots of people write books and it became quite a trend and someone has, like, an Amazon bestseller. I've got an Amazon bestseller and everyone's writing books. How have you used those books though I know they're obviously full of fantastic information? Used those books, though I know they're obviously full of fantastic information, but how have you used those books in your business to be able to, let's say, generate clients? Let's say, you use them as lead magnets, for instance. Are they used in that way? Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, go on, harry, yeah I?
Speaker 3:I definitely think so. I mean, not everyone is going to pick up the book and read every single page. That's just the reality of it. However, when you are singing shock and all packs out to clients before meetings so kind of new clients that are coming on board you're sending them a like, almost like a welcome pack almost, and there's a book in there. All of a sudden, you're an authority. It doesn't matter if they pick it up and read it, but in their minds you're an authority. It doesn't matter if they pick it up and read it, but in their minds you're an authority. On that subject Also, I think, if you're competing for clients as well, because very often if you're sitting down with a new client, they're going to be scoping out maybe one or two other people as well.
Speaker 3:If you show up and you put one book down and then you put a second book down, all of a sudden those two or three other people chances are they're even going to put one book down, let alone two, so straight away in their mind they don't even have to open the book and read the thing. You're at the top of the list, but then it compounds that if they do open the book and read it. Then there's quality content in there as well. That is meaningful. So that's kind of how I think it has an impact from a lead generation standpoint as well, carl.
Speaker 1:what about yourself, then? Over your career, you've probably used the book more than Harry has. Have you found it beneficial in your financial planning process and generating clients?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think when you go out networking, obviously you have your little elevator pitch that you might use. But there was another gentleman who actually runs a mastermind group that Harry and I are part of and you know we'd rock up and we both have our books with us and you can hold that and say well, number one bestselling author of X, y and Z it just it, z, it just it's a pattern. Interrupt, isn't it? It gets people's attention and ultimately people buy from people. So they won't just come on board just because you've written a book or because you're chartered or because you're certified. You've got to build that relationship with people. But it does make people sit up and think and people on the periphery, if they just got a particular interest and we might send a book and say I think chapter 23 is ideal for you and if nothing else, they read that one chapter Time and time again.
Speaker 2:Those people come back years later. Often, sometimes six, seven, eight, nine years later. You get a call go, carl, do you remember that book you sent me? Well, now's the time. And and you just think, if you keep putting bread on the water, you know the ducks will come, you know, to use that analogy. So, uh, for us it's been really really great in in that in terms of establishing some, some credibility, and it's a little bit different from just presenting a normal practice brochure how long did it take you to actually write the book out of interest and did?
Speaker 1:did you write it yourself or did you get like a ghostwriter to help you?
Speaker 2:No, so every single word has been researched and analysed by myself. Obviously, my thinking has been shaped by a lot of thought leaders, you know, in the world and the profession itself. I mean the first book, I was on an accountability coaching programme with the guy who mentored me through it, so that took me three months to sort of do, and I would segregate from six o'clock till about eight o'clock in the morning to kind of do that Monday to Thursday. The second book probably did quicker because I just knew the formula better. I know people are throwing them out using all sorts of AI tools now now, but every single word that you know has been used there has been researched, thought about, considered and, harry, you did have a part you.
Speaker 2:You edited the book and you might say, well, actually, dad, you know you missed the point there, you know. So it's that kind of acid test, so uh, it's. It's been really cool in that regard and I'd encourage people, if they if do it, you know, to consider the possibility that it might just position them in a different way and and it's your personality that comes through and, as I say, people buy people, so they want to engage with people, that kind of get them, and for people that don't get us, that's absolutely fine. We're not. We're not the right sort of advisors for for them. Um, but um, you know, there's a number of choices out there. People can make an informed choice, can't they?
Speaker 1:oh, 100. I think challenging the norm between the idea that money makes you happy is a is, it is a good thing in general, and then, when you switch on, it's hard to say that purpose makes you happy. Um, find out what it is, you'll find out what your why is. Why are you earning this money? What is it you want to do? And time is for night, you know, and we? What was his name? Again, the lad who died, steven, steven, something, steven, you know, he hit the nail, hit the nail on the head, didn't he? You know you, we're all, we've all got a ticking clock, it's just you just don't know yours yet.
Speaker 1:And I think when we start to think about what it is we're working towards, why we're spending so much time exchanging our time for money, it's like, well, hang on, why am I doing this? Am I working towards something that's meaningful? So I think, anything which kind of challenges it. And I think when you get to have that conversation, you sit down with someone, you get to think differently about financial planning. I think it's really positive.
Speaker 1:Me coming from a background of not being a financial planner and going into a financial planning company has allowed me to look at things in a completely different perspective and get a bit more creative around it. Harry, have you found that, like you yourself, like having a bit more of a creative background? Have you found that you look at financial planning and recognize ways that you can enhance it or add more value? Are you kind of constantly thinking about that we could do this different. We could do this different? We could do this because I'm like my brain's constantly all over the place trying to think about ways we could do things differently I think it must have done.
Speaker 3:I think I think, especially in the earlier days when I was still doing the music and still exercising that creative side of my brain every single day. Now I still do, just to different extents. Um, I definitely think so. I think partially. Yes, I do look at it that way. But also I think the way that we look at things already, with the whole dream it planet, live it philosophy, is quite creative and, um, freeing in a way anyway, because no two conversation is the same with any client, because we're not sheep dipping everyone through the same, um, kind of financial process. We are actually identifying what's important to them. So actually you listen to what people say. So if they're more visual, maybe when we actually send their life plan to them, we include more images rather than words and things like that, and you start to get creative with it that way. So just in terms of how you communicate with people as well, I think that creativity can come through.
Speaker 1:And what are you guys?
Speaker 3:working on.
Speaker 1:What are you working towards? So you've created your book. Are you looking at any other sort of more digital ways of communicating and connecting with your audience, new and existing clients?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we've got a number of strategies going. So, digitally, we've got our own podcast now. So we've got the Dream it, plan it, live it podcast. Digitally, we've got our own podcast now. So we've got the Dream it, plan it, live it podcast, which has been recently launched and that's paying dividends already. There's the audio book for Money, Mind Meaning, which is the second book which is a project for me to do.
Speaker 2:Ironically enough, however, though, sam, we're almost going a little bit old school and, from a marketing point of view, we're doing a lot more kind of what we call lumpy mail. So, in this world of e-communications, we're finding that there's a lot of noise out there, and how many of us now actually sort of get posts that arise, that isn't a bill. So, actually, if you turn up in almost like the good old fashioned way of actually sending something through the post, we get a little bit creative about doing that, don't we, harry? You know, maybe sending chocolate, coins and things like that in with it is, you know, just a little bit of fun. We're finding that that has much more impact. It kind of I don't know penetrates through the noise of what can be a cluttered inbox or lots of sort of messages, harry, any other thoughts on that one?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean just on the physical side of things. We send out a newsletter, don't we sporadically as well, which again is something physical that comes through the post, which is just full of short but useful information. We're not talking about masses of information here, just kind of a couple of sides of A4 and that's it really. But actually receiving something through the post, like you say, has more impact than receiving a weekly email. That's interesting. So how many would you send out, however many clients that we've got at the time?
Speaker 2:so I think anywhere last last point, I think it was 170, something like that so the newsletter goes out to people who are in our world, so it goes out to a bigger audience than that. So anybody we meet at networking events and things like that, they, they will get the kind of dream communication, um, and it just helps. It's a little touch point, isn't it? You know that. You know the thing comes through the door, it's printed in color, it's got harry's beautiful face on it and you know my ugly mug and I think, oh, it's these two guys rocking up again, um, but you just have a little bit of fun with it because you know it's, it's, it's. You've got to let your personality through.
Speaker 1:You've got to be remembered do you think the traditional methods are coming back? And I think you know so. When you receive a handwritten letter, isn't it? You're kind of like, wow, that's amazing. I love a nice handwritten letter. You just think it's so personal, um, so I think that kind of creating a nice personal touch through the post is really really nice, absolutely. So you mentioned about your podcast. So what are you covering on the podcast then? Who's your target audience? Harry, do you want?
Speaker 3:to talk about that, yeah. So obviously we've got the whole dream it, plan it, live it philosophy. Obviously we've got the whole dream it, plan it, live it philosophy. So what we tend to do is an episode of dream it kind of style stuff, an episode of plan it style stuff and an episode of live it into kind of changing with also getting some guests on the podcast as well. So we've had two or three guests who come on, who are kind of leaders in their professions as well, just to kind of get their take on things.
Speaker 3:Some are really similar to what we do. Others are completely different. So, for example, we had a personal trainer, a fitness coach, come on and actually talking about the importance of kind of mental well-being but also physical well-being and actually the impact that has on our lives as well and how that kind of ties into the financial side of things too. But essentially at the moment we're just running through the different topics within the book and then expanding upon them, because you've got a chapter but actually there's so much more that you can say about them. So that's how we're running the podcast at the moment.
Speaker 1:Have you had much success from the podcast so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say so. We've had a number of people put their hand in the air and say we'd like to have a discovery call with you. I've had a couple of people who are interested in engaging us as advisors. Harry, I know you have had as well which has been really really surprising, because it's early days still message you and say listen to your podcasts, found your YouTube channel, I've watched your YouTube videos. I like what you're saying and I guess part of what we're doing is pre-framing with people.
Speaker 2:You know our philosophy, our way of doing things and I guess they either get it or they don't. Either way, that's fine, but it's really trying to, I guess, attract that tribe, almost Sam, that ideal tribe to us. So I mean we have ideal clients, avatars, in terms of who we're looking for. Predominantly we work with business owners. They're typically over the age of sort of 40, but that's not necessarily the case. We've got all sorts of people from all sorts of ways of life. I think the common thing amongst all of our people whether they be professional people, retired people, business owners is that they're open-minded, they're driven, they're willing to take advice. We look for qualities in our clients in the same way that they might look for qualities in an advisor. It's a two-way thing, right.
Speaker 1:So what are the qualities you're looking for from a client, then?
Speaker 2:that's that kind of open-mindedness. Are they open-minded? Are they? Are they driven, are they willing to take advice? Because if you're dealing with somebody and I'm sure any advisor listening to this you've all sat across the desk from somebody who knows your job better than you. Um, let me tell you it's not worth a while sort of working with people like that. You know those people who've got the wrong attitudes in life. Don't work with them, there's no point. You know those people who respect you and they're eager and they share, hopefully, common values to you. You know, grab them with both hands and sort of work with them because you'll bring out the best in each other.
Speaker 2:Do you go through a process of qualifying them before you meet them so the process is we, through the financial life planning process, we'll ask them a number of questions, we'll set them homework, um, and based on the questions we'll know. Won't we harry? We'll know whether they're an ideal client or not. Most people are because they've kind of consumed a number of our social media posts or watch videos or listen to the podcast now. So they tend to pre-qualify themselves. But occasionally you get somebody you think do you know what? I don't think we're a good fit, do?
Speaker 1:you do that, Harry? Do you like to turn people away? Or do you try and work with everybody? Because when you're a good fit, Do you do that, Harry? Do you like to turn people away? Or do you try and work with everybody? Because when you're a bit younger you're kind of just eager just to work with anybody, aren't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So what was drilled into me from the very beginning is don't work with people you don't want to work with because it will make your life miserable in the longer run. It might be nice in the shorter term to get that financial hit of earning a few quid. But it might be nice in the shorter term to get that financial hit of earning a few quid, but actually five years down the line, 10 years down the line, it's going to come and bite you. So actually I've always been quite good at kind of screening who actually comes on board and actually our marketing does a really good job of that.
Speaker 3:So the messages that we pump out on our social media, even the way that the book's written or the videos that we record are done it's all kind of aimed with specific people in mind. That does what you mentioned. So normally when people reach out, you kind of know that 80% 90% of them are going to be a good fit, and very often they are. But also people appreciate honesty, I've found as well. So actually if they aren't a good fit, just having that frank conversation and going look, here's a couple of kind of pointers. But I don't think either you're ready to come through the process at the moment or maybe we're not the right fit. I suggest you do X, y and Z. Actually, people appreciate that more than you just kind of going cold on them or just ignoring their emails or not taking their calls, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Guys, thank you so much for sharing your journey today at St James's Place and I really love the fact that you are a partnership, but you're also father and son. I couldn't imagine working with my dad I'm completely honest with you um, but at the same time, kind of wish I did. You know, I wish I kind of had that relationship with my dad where I could work with him and build something together and share philosophy and ideas, and I think it's a lovely way to stay connected. Um, maybe that's just the romantic in me. In the background you're tearing each other to shreds, I don't know, you tell me, but I think you know it's lovely to hear about a father and son business and I think, um, fair play to you guys and the support I suppose at st james's place have had in the background just helps you get through the process a lot quicker and also just take some of that pressure off you.
Speaker 1:Carl, doesn't it as well? Absolutely, yeah, and that's the key. That's the key thing, isn't it? You know it's stressful enough bringing somebody on into a business, let alone somebody that's quite, you know is younger, right, you know it is going to be tougher to bring somebody on, I think, who is younger, that doesn't have that life experience.
Speaker 1:So, having two sides of the coin, one is you can learn on the job and be able to impart wisdom and mentorship on that individual, but then have the kind of structure and the process and the technical knowledge and the background being trained. I think that's where SJP do things really, really well and you're a shining example. And when we look at the things like succession planning, more businesses need to do it. They need to be looking at the next generation of advisor coming through because they're going to be there long term with their clients and you can impart that wisdom, you can impart best practice, and it doesn't have to be done at the last minute. It could be done five, 10 years before you decide to exit the business. Kyle, like yourself, and by the sounds of it, you're not looking to exit, you're just looking to step back a bit and sort of impart wisdom and advice and work on other areas that are meaningful for you in your career and in your life goals, right, Correct, absolutely, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. All right chaps. Well, listen, thank you so much for your time today, really really appreciate it. I think you've given a great insight into your journey there at st james's place. The impact of sjp academy on that journey and harry is fantastic to get somebody in the profession who's kicking ass under 30 years old right, because we need more people like you doing it. So thanks for stepping up and sharing your career journey. Buddy, thank you very much for having me. Nice one. And thanks carl. Thanks a lot, my pleasure. Thanks, sam. Cheers guys.
