Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Performance Coaching for Financial Planners: Unlock Your Full Potential - with Tony Fields
🔥 From Burnout to Breakthrough: How Performance Coaching Transforms Careers 🔥
In this episode of The Financial Planner Life Podcast, I sit down with Tony Fields, a former chartered financial planner turned performance coach, to discuss how high achievers in financial planning—and beyond—can break free from burnout, find clarity, and reach their full potential.
💡 We cover:
✅ Why performance coaching isn’t just for top performers—or those at rock bottom
✅ How obsession with success can become toxic if not managed properly
✅ The warning signs of burnout and how to prevent it
✅ Why financial planners struggle to create their own long-term life plans
✅ How working with a coach can help you achieve faster, more sustainable success
I also share my own struggles with obsession, burnout, and the pressure to constantly achieve—plus how working with Tony, Chris Ball from Hoxton Wealth, and financial planner Bobby Sohota helped me create a clear, structured plan for my future.
👉 If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or just want to sharpen your focus, this episode is for you.
🎧 Listen now and take control of your career, mindset, and future!
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With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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Now. Today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Tony Fields. Tony is an ex-chartered financial planner turned performance coach. But what is a performance coach, and when do you need to engage with one? Is it when you're rock bottom or is it when you're doing really, really well? But what can you do if you're somewhere in between? It is an open, honest conversation. Two guys chatting about mental health, mental fitness and how to get better in life. I hope you enjoy the episode, tony. Thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm very good, yeah. Great to be here. Sam Planner Life podcast. How are you today?
Speaker 1:I'm very good, yeah great to be here, sam, fantastic. So, tony, for those that don't know you, I know you as an ex-chartered financial planner, now a performance coach. Just give us a little bit of an insight in what you're doing in your life right now, who you're helping and why?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, it's great to be here. I help really ambitious people, actually Quite a few financial planners because of my background, but also a lot of entrepreneurs beyond that, often people at that kind of midpoint of their lives who deep down a bit like I do and feel want to become the best version of themselves, version of themselves, and that often spans across their business. But you know what that also makes people reflect on themselves as maybe a father, as a partner. So, yeah, that's what I do and I also now get invited to speak at quite a lot of events, some financial events and some beyond, which I just really enjoy, particularly around kind of removing limitations, which is something I'm very passionate about Fantastic, great stuff.
Speaker 1:So let's just jump. Well, go back in time, actually back to the future. Michael J Fox, how long were you a financial planner? I was only a financial planner for about 12 months actually. Oh, right.
Speaker 2:But I joined the industry in 2001, became chartered in 2012. In the first part of my career I was looking after financial planners, kind of business development, and then I kind of did quite a few senior roles and also had a spell running a general insurance business where I had a financial planner in my team. So I've kind of always been probably 20 years kind of in the sector, in the profession. But four or five years ago just stepped back, probably in line with a pandemic actually, and just reflected on what I really wanted for my career and took the leap and now doing what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, but why end up in performance coaching then? What was it about performance coaching that drew you in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good question. I've always loved performance. Do you know, sometimes, when you just sort of step back and if I'm honest, I hadn't stepped back, I've been on a treadmill all my career, like a lot of people, been pretty successful but never really evaluated what I really want in life. And I remember at the time I actually had number four child on the way, got four children, lots going on in our house. And I just remember looking back and I was working with a coach at the time actually, and just asked me some really simple but deep questions, one of which is what do you really want, tony? And and honestly, that sounds so easy but a lot of people cannot articulate that and I could not articulate that um, and I just kind of looked back.
Speaker 2:I'd played sport to a very high level, um, sort of semi-professional football. I'd always been kind of just one of those people that's obsessed with personal growth and development and I read constantly. I didn't think it could be a thing. Actually, I didn't look there at the time and think I could create a business doing this, but it's very, very common in the States and I thought you know what I want? To create a business helping other people who are as ambitious as I am, but not just.
Speaker 2:I think the mistake I made in the past was my obsession with performance was an obsession, so I thought the only way you perform better, whether you're a financial planner or a business owner or you're just coming into any profession, was just by hard work, being desperate to succeed and through real sheer grit. And that's what I've been. I'm going to use the word programmed to think and operate, and I was introduced to um a different way of performing, where you perform more in a flow state and you you genuinely um tap into those um kind of reconnect with what matters and and feel more fulfilled in the process. And and actually I think in sport they often use the words you enjoy the journey, you enjoy the process rather than just the destination. So I think it was my. For me, it's something I've always loved um, and but it was the it's not, it's about performing and actually performing in all areas of your life. So that's what I'd say.
Speaker 1:So what actually happens in a performance coaching session or meeting? How does it all work? Lots of people have probably thought about getting a performance coach, right. Lots of people think about getting a counsellor, but they're kind of put off by the fact they don't quite know what's actually going to happen during that process. What's going to be of them. Are they going to have to bear all? Are they going to cry? You know what's, what's the reality of a session when it comes to um performance coaching. What do you? What's the process, what do you take them through and why? Yeah, look um again. Good question.
Speaker 2:I would separate a counselor from a coach. To start with, um, a counselor is is exceptionally important for a lot of people. It's more backward looking and will deal with perhaps trauma from the past, and that's something. If you're thinking about doing it, I'd say, do it for people listening A coach and certainly what I do is forward looking and it's looking forward from today. And if I was to say the start of that process, um, what I I said before, what do you really want?
Speaker 2:Most people can't answer that. And and when you take a step back off a treadmill and you're crystal clear with what you want to create as a business, the life you want to lead, how you want to show up at home and that emphasis maybe on your health and well-being that you've been putting off, and so that's the start of a process. It it's actually saying look, where are you today and where would you love to be, and let's remove all feasibility, because what most of us do is we have this voice in our head, sort of self-doubt, which will say well, you can't put that down, tony, you can't say that Sam, you've never done that before and it's not possible to work 20% less and grow your double the size of your business. You can't put that down because that's out of reach. And that's that's I say to people remove limitations. At this stage. It's about being clear with what you want. We're going to deal with the barriers and the obstacles. In time. We're going to get into that. So that's kind of how it starts.
Speaker 2:But I would say it's not for everybody. It's genuinely it's not for the faint-hearted. It's for people who are committed and people who, deep down, just feel this desire. They don't want to look back in 20 years and say, if only, if only I could have done more. So it's for people that are committed and um and open-minded and genuinely want to improve. So but that's as I say, does that give you a flavor? That's the kind of start of the process yeah, start the process, definitely.
Speaker 1:So, if someone's thinking about using a performance coach, let's just get into the mindset of where they might be right now, see if we can get somebody identifying um with, perhaps, why someone like you a performance coach, would actually help them.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you mentioned about having a clear picture turning up and being um the best father you can be right, being um happy in your life, right. These are all things I suppose. When we think about performance, we think, right, okay, if I can perform really, really well and everything's fantastic around me, I'm the best dad, I'm the fittest and healthiest I've ever been. I am earning the most money, working the less hours you know, driving the fastest car, got the nicest house, everything's perfect, right. Is that the type of person you're looking for? Are they at that stage where they are that perfect, or what we've got to get to the down to the crux of it, because people will be listening to, thinking do I need a performance coach and why? And I really want to kind of try to identify if anyone's listening right now. That we'll get into the benefits of having a performance coach afterwards, but we want to identify with where someone might well be at right now.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, so I, I certainly would say most people and perfectionist doesn't exist right, it's good to strive, but that's just. Most people do not start when they're doing perfectly. Most people start because there's a problem they want to solve, and for a high performer, that might be they want to. At the moment, they're juggling and they're spinning too many plates and they're dropping some balls, and it might be that they're not spending enough quality time. The business is being put ahead of everything else in their life and their health is suffering or their relationships are suffering. So so I would say there's a lot of people I work with that are successful, they're doing well, but they're feeling burnt out or they're they've got an inability to switch off. They, they, they. They're responding to clients at all hours of the day, and that's very relevant in financial planning. They put everything, they put their client first, which is is a great quality, but actually can be a problem for themselves. They're not putting themselves first. So that's a very common situation.
Speaker 2:There's others that want to grow quicker, so they're doing well and they've reached a plateau. They may have been either in financial planning for five, ten years or running a business for a period of time, and they've just reached a plateau and it can feel sometimes like something's missing. And they're sitting there thinking, um, do I listen to my head or do I listen to my heart? And my heart might be saying go for it, sam. Like go for it, you can do more.
Speaker 2:Um, but they've got that fear of what if it doesn't work out for me? And the head's telling them you're just fine, you're doing well on paper and why change the status quo? So I would say that's two categories of people, um, either those that are doing well but reached a plateau and can feel like something's missing. Um, which is very common, particularly as you turn 40 and you're you've got 20 years ahead and you're thinking I want to be sure I'm investing my time and money in the right thing for me. Or people that are again doing really well externally, but they just never feel like there's enough time and they feel like that business can feel like a bit of a burden and they don't feel in control, and so does that paint a bit of a better picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. I think one of the words you used before was obsessed. I'm typically somebody that can get quite obsessed by things, and sometimes an obsession is a good thing, right? I remember I was obsessed with the gym and I looked amazing. I was obsessed with running. I looked great, I was healthy. I was obsessed with not drinking. It made a massive impact on my life. You know, I went straight into like well-being and I ran down a rabbit hole of that.
Speaker 1:Other things I get obsessed with, believe it, or things like ufos, like I'll go on down a rabbit hole and learn everything about ua, uaps and what's going on, and you know, are they real or are they not? So sometimes my little obsessions can take me in all different places and a lot of time within work. I am obsessed with work. I am somebody that wakes up and I think about it all the time I go to bed and I'm thinking about it and, if I was completely honest, sometimes I feel very exhausted from it. Right, I feel very tired from it, like it's on my mind constantly and it's great to have that deep obsession with something because it makes I feel it. It can, um, add value, because it shows that you care and it shows that you want to do well. But I sometimes feel that sometimes misdirected ambition can be toxic. So you have this ambition within you and then that ambition almost becomes toxic and I felt myself at that point.
Speaker 1:A little while back actually, I actually spoke to you and you helped me with that. Remember, we sat down and you put a plan together. You said just write down where are you going, sam, what does Sam look like when he's 55 years old? What is he doing? And I'd never actually honestly done that. I just got up every day, got into autopilot, into that mode of like I've got to do well. I've got to do well. I've got to pay the bills. I've got to bring some business in. I've. I've got to show everybody I'm a great social media person. I've, you know, I've got to get those numbers up. And that's all I ever think about. And it was.
Speaker 1:It is exhausting and it is tiring and it goes back to what you said earlier about being on the treadmill and sometimes you've got to come off that treadmill to stop and reflect and get a bit more mindful about it. And do I ever give myself the space to actually truly think about my future. And when I think about my future, for some reason it causes me a great deal of anxiety because the picture that I might have in my head of my future. I can't quite understand how I'm going to get there. So what I do instead is I put all my energy into work, just go like a treadmill over and over and over again, but without any clear-cut direction. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:So there was that point when I reached out, when we spoke, started speaking and you said to me go away and write down what's important to you. What do you want out of life? Where do you see yourself at 55 years old? What does retirement look like to you? What does sam want when he's that age? How much does he need? What will you be doing?
Speaker 2:and it was so reflective that I hadn't actually ever done it will you be doing, and it was so reflective that I hadn't actually ever done it, and when I did it, most of us haven't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just don't do things like that, yeah, but, but I think that's often to do. I don't know why, like why? Why don't we take that time off to think about our future? Is it because we're so stressed in the every day um that we don't take that moment to stop? Or is it like an obsession, almost like an addiction to work, like an addiction to pleasing or addiction to to getting results? Or because that makes me feel good, but yet I keep doing it and actually, over time, it can make me feel worse. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:it's like it's bizarre, I think. I think it's, I think it's subtly different for everybody. But I think, if we just talk about obsession for a minute, I think obsession whether that's exercise you mentioned I used to go to the gym all the time and that's kind of okay, but then life gets more tough when you then get older and you have a family and you have other things that are going on and it's not as easy. And that approach you're kind of holding on to that. This is the way I used to be and I want to go back to feeling as fit and healthy as I did 15 years ago. And and you can't go to the gym for two hours a day. You just don't have the capacity to do those sort of things. So I think, um, what being obsessive? Most people can't turn it off. So I think dealing with that to start with, I think it's if you can be very laser focused and in a state of flow when you're at work, when you're looking after your clients, when you're, um, thinking about where you want to go, when you're um, that's that is such a positive thing. That's what that's like, I don't know. You watch novak djokovic on match point and he plays his best tennis. He thinks clearly under a real state of stress, but the challenge is, I would say, being content. Most people then cannot turn it off. They can't go home and suddenly go oh, now family life, and now I'm fully present and now I'm just going to park everything that's going on. So I think that's a big challenge that affects a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I think the second thing I was going to say was where does this obsession come from? I think that, having been in the profession for 20 years, I think we're surrounded by people and it might be a boss that you worked for 10 years ago who used to send you messages at 5 am and you just kind of have this wired into you that that's the way I succeed. And for the younger people listening, that mentor financial planner in your business that you looked up to and they did it a certain way and you feel like that's the way you need to do it and they're probably telling you you need to do what I did 20 years ago. So I think we're in this bubble where everybody is working incredibly hard and I believe most people have and this can even date back further to your upbringing and most people have this underlying belief at a subconscious level that I need to work incredibly hard to be successful.
Speaker 2:And if I don't, if I do take time out today to think for 30 minutes, if I just decide I'm going to finish up at four o'clock and go to the park with my daughter, to the part with my daughter, um, we have this guilt which is not logical, but we have this guilt inside of us that says, um, I shouldn't be doing that because I'm going to not be providing, and maybe this is a I don't know, I'm speaking as a man here um, I'm sure it's not not a challenge just for men, but a kind of this thing that I'm supposed to be providing, and if I don't do that, then I'm gonna, this is gonna result in a, not the life I want to lead. So that is something that I know personally. It's one of my reasons for doing what I did. It's something I struggle with massively and now, having worked with so many people, it's a very common thing that affects a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Um, but you unpick that and you unpick that underlying belief that you have to work incredibly hard. It's the only way to succeed. Um, it's quite. It takes time and practice and patience, but it's, it's quite empowering actually. Um, does any of that make sense, sam?
Speaker 1:yeah, 100. I also did like. Following on, I want to make it clear that when I sat and had a conversation with you, it was at a point in time where I was really considering, like my life, basically I'm looking at it, going like what am I doing, where am I going, why am I doing this? I felt I hate using this word because it's like it gets thrown around a lot. It's like adhd right, it gets thrown around a lot, but burnout is a word that gets thrown out around a lot and the people that have never really truly experienced what burnout actually feels like will say burnout's just like just stress. Everyone gets stressed and it's like it's really not like I.
Speaker 1:I had a proper burnout a few years back and it was horrendous, like it was like bedridden type burnout it was, it was stress, it was anxiety and the recovery time from it was months, you know, and I genuinely was probably feeling the worst I've ever felt and it revolved around work. You know, it did revolve around work and it worried me, do you know? I mean it genuinely worried me. Um, so when I sat with you and I spoke to you and I kind of just got over, I dealt with it. I worked through it like I usually do, and I kind of just baby stepped myself back into it, but I never kind of gave up. And I'm very proud that I never gave up and I'm very proud of the fact that I kept on going and pushed myself forward. And now, all of a sudden, I'm out here in dubai, you know, and I'm working here in dubai, working for a great company. I've got loads of interesting work to do now. If I wouldn't have had that perseverance during that period and that bounce back ability, then I wouldn't be here today, and that shows that strength of character that you need.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you need to kind of pick yourself up off the floor, right, you're at the bottom of that well, and you need to climb out of that well. Sometimes you might need someone to drop a rope down to help you, right, and you might climb up the rope. You might fall down again and up and down, up and down, but you will get out of the well if you keep going. Yeah, but what I kind of definitely want people to understand if they listen to this podcast right now and they're feeling really, really stressed out and it is around work, then there is such a thing as burnout and I I'm telling you there is because I've experienced it. So it's no shame or guilt in admitting that you are burnt out and that you are coming home and you are worried and you're anxious and you're worried about money, or you're worried about, um, what people think of you or whether your business is going to stay afloat or am I doing enough. All these emotions that are horrendous, so like guilt and shame, right, and self-persecution. However hard you try, and you know that everyone around you is telling you're worthy, you don't feel worthy and it's. It's like where's, where's the line? How do I know what the line is?
Speaker 1:And I, when you said the word obsession, it's kind of like I am an obsessive type, mind right, and I have a tap in my brain and I can't turn it off. I really, really try, right, I do everything I possibly can. I've given up coffee, um, now, and that's massively helped me big time, you know. I give up alcohol, I exercise, I do all the things they tell me to do, but I'm still left with this part of my, my brain, that doesn't switch, doesn't switch off. Sometimes I can get obsessed about something and I can just want to get into it and push, push, push, push forward, and then that feeling of like frustration that can come with it when you don't get what you want within the time scale that you want it. Or and I want to really really get that that across, because this is where I get confused it's like well, when do you get the performance coach? Do you get the performance coach? Do you tend to see people use a performance coach when they're top of their game and everything's great and they want to do more. Do you get people like that or do you get people that are like where I was, where it was like shit, and one of the things that I had as I need to get across is, like, just by sharing how I felt with you and just by getting some guidance around, have you thought about your, where you're actually going and what's enough? It made me realize I hadn't a clue. I actually genuinely hadn't a clue.
Speaker 1:And then, from that, what escalated was that I built a plan. I built a proper financial plan that involved you know, like, over the next 12 years, what am I going to do? How much money am I going to need? Where do I want to live? What am I going to do with my property in the UK. If I'm staying in Dubai and I'm working for Hoxton Wealth and I want to see it all the way through, how much do I need to live here? Can I buy a place here?
Speaker 1:Am I thinking about so all these ideas I had in my head of what I could do? You know, I could do this, I could do that, instead of it just running around my head like a lunatic. I put it all into an actual plan. But with me it takes talking and listening. So I have to have a conversation with somebody, and then I have to. I have to be able to visualize as well. I have to be able to visualize what that future looks like, and somebody has to help me visualize what it is. And then this is the bit where I tie it into financial planning, because, bobby Sohota, you know, bobby, right, yes, and she yeah, she does, um, visualization, okay, um, which I love, and so I sat with her visual.
Speaker 1:We together visualized you. You triggered me. I then went to her visualize what it is I wanted to do, and then she, within a day, put a financial plan in place. It was completely realistic and instantly it was like a weight off my shoulders. I was like, oh you know, I felt, oh, my god, there is a plan right and the plan is actually achievable, and it calmed it.
Speaker 1:It did calm me down a bit and it made me feel good, right, and that was a combination between someone identifying you don't have a goal, someone identifying that you don't quite know what you're setting your target on and your target keeps moving. You know you haven't got a fixed target. It can be quite blah and for me, who jumps here, for there and everywhere, it's tiring, right, it's tiring, mentally tiring. So do you see people like me a lot, or do you see people that are like top of the game and they just want to go that little bit further and they've got it all together? Do do people who are performing at a good level? Do they do they have it together? Is it a myth or or like what's?
Speaker 2:the crack it's. It's definitely a myth. I mean to answer your question. Um, I'll be honest and say I I don't tend to work with people who are at rock bottom. Now I think I have been in, like you have actually in some very difficult spots which people would never realize.
Speaker 2:I remember running a business my first business five years ago and sitting in an office and just not wanting to go home. I was not coping with my kids. I had three now and I just like I thought this I want to be a good dad and I just was like coping with my kids. I had three now and I just like I thought this I want to be a good dad and I just was like so far away from what I wanted and I just couldn't even face putting them to sleep, like so I would just say I'm busy, stay in the office. I wasn't actually that busy and I didn't want to go home. I'd just escape, then I'd go for a drink with some mates or so I was just trying to escape. So I've been through some quite challenging periods and I would say if people are at rock bottom, I mean I'm a massive advocate of men's mental health. I host an annual charity golf day for men's mental health. I've raised a lot of money last year. I would say, talk to someone and may check in 100%. It's just so important. People are going through stuff. You'd never realize who outwardly often can be the life and soul, um, but I would say they don't tend to engage with a performance coach. At that point. I would say people tend to have come through the other side. So you mentioned bounce back ability.
Speaker 2:A lot of people I work with are either they're on that way up, they're, either they are doing very well. They haven't got it all together. Nobody's got it all together, I can assure you. Yeah, they might be achieving some fantastic results and the problems are a bit bigger, but that that's that can be mentally draining. The challenges are bigger and they're making bigger decisions. It weighs more heavy on them. They're. They've got feel like they've got more responsibility for their family. Um, maybe they've got a huge mortgage, that so, um. But I tend to work with people either, um, who are performing very well now and, a bit like in sport, they will look at things and say I want to improve. Yeah, um, they're actively thinking, I want to improve in in professional sport. They use performance coaches, they use mindset experts, they, they want to get that extra one percent, no different in business. All right, all people on the way up who've been through often a challenging trigger. So they've been through a moment, a bit like I did.
Speaker 2:I went through a period and thought you know what Fourth child's coming along now? We were pregnant with fourth and I thought I want to be a better dad. I don't want to be like I was for the first few years of the others and I was noticing my eldest, joseph, was getting anxiety and it's hard to say it, but I knew it was triggered from me and I said to myself I've got to change this. So I was so committed to becoming the best version of myself. I didn't have it all figured out still don't but I'd probably say that's where the place you were at, sam, you kind of turned a corner and thought you know what? I want to go places. I haven't got all the answers. Fundamentally, people say to me I want to fast track. So I'm for people who it's interesting, a lot of clients have worked with me say I've ended up achieving my goals in half the time I expected.
Speaker 2:That tends to be what happens because you have that clear picture. And then it's about. It's really one thing I'll mention. It's not productivity if, when you've got your head down and you start your day looking at your emails and responding to client queries and just getting into your day job and you can't see things clearly, you can't see obvious things that you can change, that leverage your value more, the tasks that you should be doing, the stuff you should be delegating, the efficiencies that you could, you can implement. So it becomes a lot clearer. And then there's like a I say to people six weeks clarity, six months results. And that's not just clarity where you're going, that's clarity on the areas where you're holding yourself back. And then it's a bit like a hockey stick. You don't. I don't say that people expect the miracle. No, it's not perfect, nothing's perfect. It's hard. A lot of people say it's challenging because you're going to have to confront some stuff. But you then experience like those little, like investing compound interest. It's exact, those compound improvements.
Speaker 1:What you do get is you get. Sometimes things are presented to you quickly. So just by very just by sitting down and engaging with somebody, something very profound and very quick can happen. That can have a massively positive impact on your life and then the rest of it. It will come, but it takes time. So it's like you get this amazing epiphany I've got it, I've nailed it. Brilliant, you know, I get it. It's a bit like when people go to a counselor or they go to performance coach. They have the first meeting and I ping, I've, I've nailed it, I totally get it. I've worked out what it was that was holding me back. Thank you so much. That's because that has kind of almost come, because you've expressed how you feel and someone's giving you a, an answer that you probably haven't seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a wow moment yeah, and I think what I've found with self-development, personal development, okay, and I love the fact that we just talked about the whole distinction between performance coach and somebody that's perhaps experiencing a mental health problem, right, and need that support. Everybody's different. I said bobby, right, bobby's the financial planner, you're the performance coach. You know, I've got somebody that I talk to when it comes to, like addiction. I've got somebody that I talk to when it comes to mental health. I've got somebody when I, you know, when I talk to him work, like chris ball is now one of those people that I would talk to. So I've got all these different people, my, you know, my, my, my community of individuals that are, say, experts within specific areas of my overall well-being, yeah, or overall life, that I have a good relationship with, that I can go to, that can help me perform that little bit better or get over those little hurdles. But each one within their lane is an expert.
Speaker 1:And that was what I wanted to make sure people weren't listening to thinking like I'll get performance coach because I feel like shit, it's like it's not the right time to get a performance coach. You might be, you might be a bit stressed, you might be a bit overwhelmed. You might be a bit, and, but you're doing well and you're thinking to yourself why am I still feeling this way when I'm doing really, really well? That's an opportunity to sit down with a performance coach because you can start to look at things and go are you working to the best of your ability? Are you being smart with how you're working? You know, and I like that. I like the way that each individual person can help in different ways and I can see now where a performance coach sits. I never really understood it, if I'm completely honest, of you so I don't think a lot of people do so.
Speaker 2:It's actually a good conversation and I and I I was listening to a video the other day and and it's a Simon Sinek video and video this is one minute long and I'll share it because I think it sums up things really nicely. He told this story of these two lumberjacks all right, just hear me out, it's very quick and these two guys cutting chopping wood every day and they're both chopping wood and they both start at the same time and finish at the same time. And he kind of goes through this story and says there was one of these guys that was actually every day was going off for an hour and it takes some time out and he'd go off for an hour. But the actual other guy who was working harder, was actually chopping less wood every day. And he started to get frustrated because he was sort of saying why is this? I'm working harder. I kind of never take time off, I'm actually working harder every day and yet this other guy is doing better than me. So he eventually asked the question what on earth have you been doing? I don't understand. And the guy said well, every single day I go back home and I sharpen my axe and that's what I do and it helps me with my performance and I guess it's an analogy I quite like. I mean it's a very good video worth a listen.
Speaker 2:But when someone takes time out, let's say every two weeks, to focus on themselves and one, it can feel quite cathartic. But also it's that just bigger picture. You're looking at the bigger picture. You're making sure you're committing to actions that are aligned with your purpose and what your goals and where you're headed. You also look at improvements that you can make that you probably missed.
Speaker 2:And then, frankly, the last bit, which is critical as well, is the accountability. You then and whether it's a couch or, sorry, a couch a coach, or whether it's a, a colleague or a someone in your business or even a friend who's got a real growth mindset that physical thing of saying this is what I'm gonna do, I commit to doing between now and next time we're reconnecting in a fortnight and you make that commitment, you don't. It's a bit like a personal trainer at the gym you go, you don't make an excuse, you go to the gym and when you get there, you just do more. It's just what happens. So it's human nature. We don't want to let people down. So people often, even if it's the day before they're seeing me, they just do a bunch of actions that they've been planning and they feel better for it and that compound effect makes quite a big difference I also think, though you said about a friend, a family.
Speaker 1:I think in throughout my history my 44 years nearly of life whenever I've turned to a friend or family, it's harder than turning to a stranger. So if I go and see somebody that I don't know on a personal level, I find that I'm way more honest and way quicker at getting to the root cause of what my problem actually is and being honest. Basically, it's a hell of a lot easier being honest with a stranger, like you know, when I sit down, and I can be honest with a stranger when you're sat down trying to be honest with your boss, or you're trying to sit down and be honest with your partner. It can be difficult, and everybody's then got their own kind of agenda as well that are close by you. You know they might love you deeply or they might want you to work really hard and not stop and think because you're doing really well. Um, it's tricky to go to people that know you often, which is another reason why I see the value in stepping outside. So if it is a work-related performance, right, yeah, it's definitely worthwhile stepping outside of your arena, because how can you be completely and utterly honest all the time within your work arena. It's hard because there's there's agendas left, right and center, you know, and it's, I think, that you can really truly be honest within your business. I think it's really really hard, um, whether you're the boss or whether you're an employee. It's really really tough, and I've been on both sides of it. Um. So I think it's important when you do, when you think about it, one it one.
Speaker 1:It goes back to what you said stopping and getting off the conveyor belt, and then, by engaging with somebody else, you're changing the environment, you're changing the perspective, because, also, it kind of works in the other way around, doesn't it? Because that person that you're actually engaging with has got no vested interest in you. They'll just turn around and say look, I'm going to put a plan together, this is the plan and this is what we're going to hope to achieve within it. It's going to take eight weeks to get there, and if you wanted to continue on, you can continue on, but this is how it works, this is the exchange, this is how much it costs, and if you want to work on yourself, then you'll do it, and it's kind of like fuck, yeah, all right then, like this sounds a good good deal and then, because you're paying for it, you're also kind of like, oh god, I gotta do it.
Speaker 1:It's a bit like that with personal training, right? If someone just helps you out, if your mate's a personal trainer and say, oh mate, go on and put a little plan together for me, and all of this, it never works. Go and pay a personal trainer 40 quid a week, right, for a couple of sessions. You're going to turn up, you're going to start counting your calories because you're paying money towards your goal, and that dude is also going to hold you accountable because he wants to continue to hold you accountable, because he wants to see progression change right, whereas if you're having a go at it, it doesn't quite work.
Speaker 2:So I think it's a really good point. Actually, there is there's quite a lot of evidence around this, actually that if you work with a third party, could be a coach, could be a coach, could be a mentor, an expert, and and that doesn't always need to be a performance expert that might be um, for some people that might be. You've got a specific plan I don't know to exit a business and you might work with an expert that's exited a business before, or you might work with someone who's specific expert in I don't know a lifestyle business or a lifestyle coach. So it doesn't always need to be a performance coach, but if you have that, it needs to be someone who you deeply trust, someone who you trust, someone who has either solved a problem that you want to solve for themselves or a lot of other people ideally both, actually, but there's yeah, there's a lot of evidence.
Speaker 2:If you do seek expert help from one of those individuals and then make yourself accountable, the improvement in performance is exponential. It's a good start. I guess, if I was, if somebody listened to this is not making themselves accountable to anybody right now. I'd say you might have a supportive partner at home who genuinely has your best interests and wants to encourage you not tell you to get fitter, but encourage you to get fitter. Um well, confiding in them and making yourself accountable is a good first step. It's not the best route, but it's just.
Speaker 1:Some of this stuff is about getting started yeah, I started, I say and in those situations because, like, especially when it comes to fitness, let's say your partner isn't either that fit, they might turn around and say no, but I love you the way you are. You know, you do look great. And it's like sometimes it's not what you want to hear. Sometimes you want to hear someone turn around and say do you know what? You've put on too much weight, you know, and you're not as fit as you were and have you thought about why? And have you thought about why? And he kind of like yeah, well, thank you. Well, that's what I wanted to hear. Hit me with some hard truths and I love the. I love the hard truths. And also, like, I find like the most amount, the best change I've ever had in my life is when I engage with a man. So if I engage with a guy, whether it's a coach, whether it's a, you know, through my um, my 12 steps that I did, I had a male, uh, mentor through that and different types of male mentors, I heard along the way. This isn't anything against women, because I met some amazing women women in my time, right, but I seem to change more when I engage with a guy. I don't know, maybe it's because my dad wasn't that kind of great a mentor for me and I'm always seeking male um approval. Maybe I've always struggled to have lots of male friends, um, so maybe I'm not as honest as I should be with men. I've always been really honest with women, so I've always had a lot of females around me, because I get on really well with my mum, right, you know. And and then when I stopped and I was like I need to kind of start actually being honest with with a man and like talking to a man about things, and the more I started leaning into that and understanding the impact that that can have on you as a male, which is why there are now male groups, like Talk Club, for instance, the one that I was part of. Yeah, that was so powerful to sit around and just share openly with other men and to see the impact it had on their lives when they heard my story of recovery or whatever it was. It was powerful, but it wouldn't have been the same if it was just female.
Speaker 1:Now my wife goes to um events where it's just women, so women's groups and women's circles and they call them the red tent. Now, she'd have never experienced the level of the level of honesty, right, that she had to go to, but she really had to go to she would never have been able to say that in front of men. Um, she would have only ever been able to say that in front of men. Um, she would have only ever been able to say that in front of women. You know, and she couldn't some of the things she was told within that tent she couldn't tell me. So it goes back to that go and find the expert within that specific area. Go and find that tribe that you can join if you're not sure about going one-on-one. Go into a tribe of people, go into a group of people, because group is also massively powerful because that that that ability to walk into a room where you've got eight people that are experiencing the same problem as you and you all sit there and open up, and open up honestly and talk honestly.
Speaker 1:Now I've experienced this with my alcohol. Right, I walked into aa. Right, I didn't want to walk into aa. What, what god you can imagine. Like how much shame you feel, how guilt you feel. Right, you feel like you're bottom of the barrel when you picture a. Is everyone sat around smoking fags, looking miserable as hell.
Speaker 1:Right, I walked in this place and I sat down and I was just like blown away by what they were saying, because they weren't talking about drinking, they were talking about thinking and all the problems they were experiencing and all the things that were going around in my head. But I'd never heard another man say and I thought I was just unique. And when I walked into that room I wasn't unique, I was. I was no longer like a freak in my head, like he couldn't control himself. I was like I had I had a problem like these guys and these guys had recovered and I was like, wow, like tell me how, and that was this is possible.
Speaker 1:And that was the beginning of my journey of like recovery in so many areas of my life, like you know. And, um, I guess where I'm going with this is like also think about who you're going to confide in and why and yes, yes, it's not so much who you feel comfortable with and sometimes I would say like, well, why don't? Like I would feel uncomfortable talking to another guy, whereas nowadays I don't. I'm better. I still have my moments. Don't get me wrong. I really sometimes struggle, like, depending upon how I'm thinking, you know, and I'd be more.
Speaker 2:I like the phrase. It's quite. I feel it's quite relevant. Um, sometimes you need to. There's a difference between kind of what you need to hear and what you want to hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what we're really talking about is you need to connect with people, whether that's a coach or mentor, whether that's another way to use tribe and you sort of said I've got like this community around me, whether it's a mentor and Chris, let's say, or you've got Bobby around the vision stuff, or either the coach or or someone around addiction. You've got this tribe around you and you need those people to tell you what you need to hear Correct, not what you want to hear, and that's why it's challenging. But often there's quite a lot of people I work with and I kind of tell them what they need to hear Because, if I'm honest, I used to care too much about what people thought. I used to be a bit of a people pleaser and used to like I don't know recognition, because I never got recognition growing up from my parents and so I was always trying to prove some stuff and I've only understood this properly in the last four to five years. But now I've realized that you're actually more respected when you tell people what they need to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you need to say what you think. Don't sit on it and you do that and it's uncomfortable to start with, but you just grow. That's how you grow personally, and it comes from within. You grow internally and then everything externally happens. You become a better financial planner, you become a better dad, but it's about the personal growth that you've been through and I've been through and and so on. So, yeah, it's the.
Speaker 1:It's the courage. You need the courage to say something, but you also need the compassion and kindness and how you deliver it, and if you can then wrap that up with a story that's relatable because you've experienced it and the person will identify that you've gone through what they're going through, which then makes them feel comfortable, and then you hit them with the hard truths. It's not like bang straight away without any kind of empathy or understanding or emotional intelligence. You need to, you need to build a little relationship with them. First of all, make somebody feel comfortable, bring their guard down, because as soon as their guard is actually down and they feel like they're not alone and what they're thinking in their head is no longer stupid or silly or weak, right or shameful or guilty because somebody else has experienced it, all of a sudden their neurological pathways are open to be reconditioned and changed, and that's the beautiful thing, and I've seen it happen time and time again. I've seen it happen with people that I work with and I love it. I actually love doing it. I really enjoy it. Um, yeah, so there we go. So look, today was just about kind of really introducing you to my network, tony, because I think you're doing fantastic work.
Speaker 1:I've obviously been on your pop, your, your live linkedin as well and we talked a lot, didn't we on there. But I think it's really important that we don't. You know, financial plan of life has always been also a channel where we talk about getting better in multiple ways, um, whether that's through mental health, whether that's through better business performance, whether that's being a better father or whatever a better role model, a better mentor, you know, because these are all the fundamentals of life that can give us grounding and purpose. And for me, I have to do it like like this right now is was nice for me, like I enjoyed it, because I don't open up as much as I used to.
Speaker 1:I don't think because, also because I'm over in dubai, it's a different world over here. You know it's, it's not, as you know, it might look brilliant from the outside, but it's work, work, work and it can feel a lonely place, especially when you've just moved here. So, like for me, getting a bit vulnerable and honest and opening up and saying like sometimes it's not perfect and you don't feel great, but when you build a network of people that are highly skilled and are there for you and can hit you with that truth and honesty and have, most importantly, the experience to be able to do so, then shit gets better, right.
Speaker 2:It does, it does. I've enjoyed it too. Always good chatting. It's the important stuff. It's the stuff we don't always talk about. It's the stuff that actually matters, isn't it? It makes life more fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've really enjoyed it takes the um, takes the stress out of life. Man, when you let it out, it lets. Let's let off a little bit of steam every now and then, and and um, I hope anybody listening to this might go. Do you know what? I need? To let off a bit of steam? Or do you know what I want? To go to the next level, so I'm going to speak to a performance person.
Speaker 1:Or do you know what I feel like shit, and maybe I should go and speak to talk club, the men's mental fitness charity, or lean into a counselor before I become the best version of myself, because you've got to start somewhere. You can't become the best version of yourself if you feel like shit. You need to stop feeling like shit first of all, understand why you feel like shit and then rebuild yourself, and that's the bit that I believe is true, right, and then you're part of that journey. You're part of that journey. You're part of that journey when somebody's taking the time to fix themselves, and then it's about how can we take you further.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I get it now.
Speaker 1:Good man yeah all right, tony top man, thanks so much for your time today and I look forward to talking to you again.
Speaker 2:Sounds good.
Speaker 1:Cheers.
