Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Can You Be a Financial Planner with ADHD & Dyslexia?
This week on The Financial Planner Life Podcast, we’re celebrating Neurodiversity Celebration Week with an inspiring conversation featuring Dan Buckland, a financial planner who has ADHD, dyslexia, and dyscalculia.
Dan’s story is one of self-doubt, resilience, and transformation. Growing up, he was told by teachers he’d “never amount to anything.” Like many neurodivergent individuals, the traditional education system left him with limiting beliefs about his potential. Fast forward to today—he’s a successful financial planner with St. James’s Place, proving that thinking differently is an asset, not a weakness.
In this episode, we dive into:
✅ How neurodivergence can be a strength in financial planning
✅ The impact of school experiences on self-belief and career choices
✅ How St. James’s Place Academy supported Dan’s transition into finance
✅ The power of self-acceptance and working with—not against—your brain
✅ Why anyone can become a financial planner with the right mindset and support
If you've ever doubted yourself because you don’t fit the mould, this episode is for you. Your differences might just be your biggest advantage.
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With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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I've always wanted to get into finance. Always and, if I'm completely honest, due to dyslexia and all the stuff that we'll get into in due course, I never really thought it was an opportunity for me. It's not the same as wanting to be a pilot or something like that. It's a dream. It's not necessarily something that's going to be achievable. Later on in my life I found out that I got ADHD and this thing called dyscalculia. Dyscalculia, which is kind of I describe it as dyslexia with numbers.
Speaker 2:There are so many financial planners that I've spoken to, like you, who are super successful, right, and a lot of those are dyslexic, have ADHD, but what they all do incredibly well is build relationships really early on. What I love about St James' Place is they do look outside of the financial services profession to find those people that have those transferable skills and to bring them through an academy and train them up to become financial planners. Anybody can become a financial planner. You don't even have to have A-levels or anything. Yes, you have to pass some financial planning qualifications. You don't have to have excelled in an educational environment a traditional educational environment as a financial planner. It's open to everybody.
Speaker 1:I have qualifications to be able to know the best strategies to take for certain people, but I don't know everything. If there's any financial planner, wealth manager, however many letters you put after your name, you don't know everything. What filled me with a lot of confidence it probably took me a year or two to actually get out of this frame of mind. I guess I still got a little bit of it, because I'm bringing it up now was that they were saying that there's a place in this market for people like me.
Speaker 2:Dan, thanks so much for joining me today on the financial planner life podcast for this special episode for st james's place, where we talk about people that have gone through the st james's place academy, what that journey has been like and what they're doing now in the ecosystem of st james's place, either working under a partner practice or building their own partner practice.
Speaker 2:So thank you so much for joining me today. I've had the absolute privilege of getting to know you already because we had a really deep chat anyway on um teams, uh, before this podcast, and I feel like I really have got to know you. I think your approach to um financial planning as a career, I think, was very, very inspiring and I think anybody listening and not sure whether or not they've got what it takes to become a financial planner maybe they're put off by the exams, maybe they've got imposter syndrome I think you're living proof that actually anybody can get into financial planning if they put their mind to it, regardless of some of the challenges that we can come up against. So we're going to get into those as the podcast goes on, but first of all, do you mind just introducing yourself and how you got into financial planning?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no problem whatsoever, thanks for having me. So, yeah, dan Buckland financial planner, financial advisor, wealth manager, whatever you want to call us. Really, I work with a company called Futurum Financial Advice that's based out of Knightsbridge. Um, yeah, and how I got into financial planning, do you know what? It's a long, long story, but I've always wanted to get into finance, always, and, if I'm completely honest, due to, you know, dyslexia and all the stuff that we'll get into in due course I never really thought it was an opportunity for me. It's not the same as wanting to be a pilot or something like that. It's a dream. It's not necessarily something that's going to be achievable.
Speaker 1:I used to work for England Rugby and worked for them for about 13, 14 years. Covid hit natural redundancy, all that sort of stuff happened, and I randomly got a text message from my now boss, a gentleman called alex um, saying dan, I hear you want to get into finance. I hear you're looking for a job. Do you fancy a chat? Um, and I think it was just less than three months, I was on the sjp academy um, after passing two exams, I think I had about seven interviews. It was. It was intense. It really was intense. Um, and yeah, it's been a journey, and now I'm a financial planner, which seems a bit bizarre, really amazing.
Speaker 2:England rugby, then we playing rugby, we training, coaching what we're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if my friends watch they'll be giving me loads of grief, but I did play. I was okay. I played prop and then when I lost a little bit of weight I played hooker, but I was more of a back. I was more like the running, like the passing, that side of the game. But what I really needed to be is a bit more aggressive. I was the sort of guy that if I put in a really good tackle I'd probably help the guy off the floor and apologise to him. So really I didn't have the mentality to be a proper professional rugby player. It's a lot harder than it looks.
Speaker 1:But then I got into coaching and that's how I got into England rugby.
Speaker 1:I had a coach that was called Steve Pope Pope as he's known in the rugby world who had a massive impact on my life, and one day he just said Dan, I'm short of a coach.
Speaker 1:You fancy coming to this primary school and doing some coaching?
Speaker 1:I think I must have been about 18 years of age and I was like, yeah, no problem, I'll do it, and I just literally fell into it and I loved it and that was my sort of exit out of playing rugby and getting into a career, because school didn't really work for me and I was a bit of a lost soul, if I'm honest, a bit of a lost soul. So that kind of helped me get into rugby and I went from coaching at primary schools on a sort of like an ad hoc basis to becoming what they call a community rugby coach, so working in sort of like Lewisham, so like inner London, developing schools and club rugby, to then going into like middle management and then when I exited England Rugby I was trying to get more into the elite teams, the operations stuff. So I've done a lot of the sevens with the USA team in like a logistics role, like a liaison officer, that sort of stuff. But yeah, that was kind of my England Rugby journey in a very bite-sized piece really.
Speaker 2:What I love about St James' Place they do a really good job of the career switch. I don't know if you've ever heard the career switch the switch podcast with G Footer, where she talks to lots of people who switch careers. And what I love about St James' Place is they do look outside of the financial services profession to find those people that have those transferable skills and to bring them through an academy and train them up to become financial planners. I do believe that anybody out there, in lots of different professions, there's so many skill sets that are transferable Professional sports, whether it be behind the scenes of an organizational perspective, logistical perspective, training, coaching, whatever, even playing the game right, there's lots of people that joined SJP that are professional sports people. I think there's so many of the transferable skills that are learned. You touched on something which I want to really get into right, two things actually Neurodivergency okay, can you be open and honest about that.
Speaker 2:Just a little bit about. I've got nothing to hide, yeah, oh, brilliant. Well, let's do that. Let's get open and let's get honest, because imagine there's lots of people that listen to this podcast when they become financial planners and maybe worried about some of the things that um, maybe affects their learning style, for instance, and it might put them off. But what we want to do today is say look, come one, come all right, this profession's not for people. Yeah, this isn't for public, private school people or anything like that. It's a profession for anybody, and that's one of the things I love about it. Right is that anybody become a financial planner. You don't have to even have to have a levels or anything. Yes, you have to pass some financial planning qualifications. You don't have to have excelled in an educational environment, a traditional education environment, to become a financial planner. It's open to everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's a perception though, isn't it? And that's what I've had as a perception going into this and I kind of felt massive. I just was like, wow, this really isn't where I belong. I'd be sitting in a classroom with you know, there was a guy in our sort of cohort that was. I think he was like top of his class at Oxford University, you know he was interviewing Stephen Hawkins and people like that, and I'm like I'm Dan Buckland, I went to Meppam Secondary School. I'm Joe, you know, complete Joe Boggs. No, nothing.
Speaker 1:And it took me a real while to identify where my place in this market fits, and I think now I've id'd that I feel a bit more confident in it and I've I've tried my absolute utmost to be really open and help other people. I think throughout my whole sort of schooling I've always been at that stage where people are learning more about dyslexia. Later on in my life I found out I got ADHD and this thing called dyscalculia dyscalculia, which is kind of I describe it as dyslexia with numbers, which isn't great. So I found out when I was doing my RO3 exam, but we'll get into that in due course, and for me it was just every single time you're at that stage where people, people learn. So I think when I joined the SJP academy, clearly people knew what dyslexia was, but I don't think they'd ever really experienced it and I think I had a like a support mechanism via the academy a gentleman called Juan and he was a huge advocate, huge advocate and he really sort of kept us. I've never worked with anyone like you before. What do you need? How can I help? And that was constant. That was really really constant. And some of the support and I'm sure we'll get into this sort of stuff a bit further on, but the support I got further down the line was was huge. And you know, I think it's actually I'm not going to put myself down to this but I think it has changed the way that SJP do some of their learning.
Speaker 1:Previously, internal exams we have to do to be able to offer advice in particular areas used to be just an exam and now they're amazing videos, they're brilliant and it helps people like myself learn and take the information in a slightly different way, because I've been led to believe that I'm stupid for the majority of my life. I actually had teachers at primary school and secondary school. One of them actually walks past me on a daily basis because he lives in the same village. That told me I'd never amount to anything. That's a quote, um, which I am a massive believer. You should never tell anyone that, um, and it's really bizarre because he was actually a maths teacher in secondary school and if he was to know I was in financial advice it would be quite a funny thing. But you know, that's sort of life. That's how you're led to believe you are, but you just learn differently and you need to pick up new skills and new techniques to cope.
Speaker 1:Basically, Dyslexia, ADHD, dyscalculia I think so I might be pronouncing it wrong. They have a funny way of making people that can't read and can't spell have the most complex words ever.
Speaker 2:Why do they do that?
Speaker 1:I don't know, must be some. It's probably Latin, isn't it? Yeah, that's usually what it is.
Speaker 2:I love it though. Dyscalculia yeah, it's funny because I haven't really ever. It's only recently that I ever missed Anne's diagnosis of ADHD. It was in Dubai and it was accessible to me, because in the UK it's really hard to get diagnosed. It takes months and just getting. I knew it because of how I am.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you can relate to this, but you try to do everything you can to fix how you're thinking right, so you're constantly trying to make improvements in my, in my life. Right, it's exercise. It's got to be the fact that I'm not exercising enough. Right, it's got to be the fact that I'm not meditating enough. Uh, it's got to be that I'm um, drinking alcohol, I'm eating the wrong foods. Yeah, it's definitely like glucose is affecting my, my ups and downs and all of that kind of stuff, my impulsivity it's caffeine, it's got to be caffeine. So I give up caffeine. I try all these different things, right, but it's my thinking was always staying the same and it caused me a great deal of pain.
Speaker 2:It caused me a great deal of shame and a great deal of guilt, and I was very, very, very because I felt like I was imperfect. I wasn't the version of myself that I felt that I should actually be and it wasn't. And I kind of knew and people like saying to me, sam, do you reckon you might have adhd? And I'm like I don't know what. You know, everyone's got adhd at the moment. And then at the time when I started really exploring it, everybody was talking about it and there was actually a lot of negativity about it, right oh?
Speaker 1:god, someone, someone else has got adhd someone else.
Speaker 2:You can't move on online for someone trying to either giving up alcohol on LinkedIn or they've got ADHD, and when you're quite a public figure as well. I didn't want to say it because I didn't want people to feel like he was just getting on the bandwagon, but I completely honest with you. Right, I went and saw somebody, I kind of knew it and when they said it to me it just made me go. They're like a hundred percent, sam, you're like high, high performing adhd. I can see it and yeah, yeah and it. And and when I I said it and I accepted it, that's the word acceptance. As soon as I was able to accept it, I could work with it as opposed to fight it. Because whatever I have tried and it made sense that all the things I tried and how hard I had worked to maneuver myself around these quite high, I'm quite up down.
Speaker 2:I thought I was bipolar at one point. You know I'm so disorganized, I'm impulsive, and it's overwhelming Right. And as soon as I kind of got the diagnosis and accepted it, it made me feel really calm and I was like, okay, so it's not about trying to change myself, it's trying to accept and work with it and at that point it was like great, what are the positives of this? And then I started leaning more into the fact and it was like great. So there's negatives, definitely, but there definitely are positives. And what positives I experienced in my life. So I'm starting to lean into those now. So I've got to ask you did that go? Did the same thing happen to to you? Um, did you carry a lot of shame and guilt of burying things? You know, I never thought about it before.
Speaker 1:I've never thought about it like that, um, but yeah, you know, I always make a joke about my weight and stuff like that as a, as a almost like a defensive mechanism. But you mentioned, oh, maybe I'm not exercising enough, maybe I'm not meditating um, you know, I don't really meditate. Um, I've thought about it but the whole exercise thing and I've definitely gone through that. Because I'm a fatty, they think I'm lazy, so that's going to affect how I do things and that isn't the case at all and it's almost a self-perception I used to get through. I like shopping, I like buying clothes, I like doing certain bits, and I think that was the case, case of that. If I'm going to go into the financial services sector, I need to look the part and it and it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1:I think it's all all in your own head, yeah, um, but I've definitely gone through that journey and in terms of once I've accepted it because I didn't know I had adhd. I knew I had dyslexia since primary school, but I never knew I had adhd or dyscalculus until I was doing my ro3 exam and, um, I got diagnosed because it was part of this, this, this um thing that I paid for. Um, all I was after was a certificate to give to the cii to say that I've got dyslexia. I can have some more time on an exam. That's that's all I was after. Did they give you some time? Yeah, got 50 extra time, right?
Speaker 2:so if you've got dyslexia and you can evidence the fact that you've got it, yeah, then you can get extra time for your exams. Is that for every exam?
Speaker 1:Depends on. You have to have a statement. So a statement is like from a medical professional that deals with this, things that can write and say look, these are the sort of things. I should have loads of stuff like things to read to me, which obviously AI nowadays does a lot of this sort of stuff. Here I should have coloured screens or coloured glasses to help me read text, because sometimes it gets a bit blurry.
Speaker 2:Does that work?
Speaker 1:There's loads of things I don't think so. I don't think so as well as I don't think I'd suit blue or bright yellow glasses.
Speaker 2:To be honest, maybe Never know, you never know when you went through the process of St James' Place and you mentioned that you went through seven interviews right.
Speaker 2:I like that. I do right. I like that. I do like that. I like the fact that you went through seven interviews. What questions were they asking you? Why do you think they went through seven interviews? Was it due diligence on your part to make sure? Was it due diligence to make sure that they were ensuring that you were getting yourself into a career that you really, really wanted to do? Were they looking at your neurodiversity at that stage? Were they trying to create opportunities and ways to work with you and to get you through the process? Why so many? Why so many interviews? Um, what was your experience of that? Was it beneficial and did you take some sort of kind of confidence in the fact that they were genuinely kind of caring and making sure that you were making the right decision? It?
Speaker 1:didn't feel like an interview, what I'd be used to, you know, going into, sit in front of two or three people, four or five people in some interviews, um, and answering prescribed questions and sort of you know, really being nervous they were. They were more friendly chats and kind of have you thought about this? Have you thought about that they're obviously sussing me out and working out whether I'm a good fit, I've got the right mentality to be in this role and that I'm actually going to be a success of it? I think what I was really pressed along the way was look, you know, as an industry we're desperate for more financial planners to come in there, but it wasn't the case of that. We'll just take anyone because it is a big jump. You know, I'm self-employed, so it's going into a position where actually I wasn't going to have a wage coming in every single month and they were making sure that I had the, the, the assets behind me to to allow me to do my job and I wasn't going to become a financial planner for three months. Then go. Oh, I can't afford this, I'm going to go and get a proper job, you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's that sort of thought process that I think that they were going through um, a lot of it was conversations, and what filled me with a lot of confidence um, it probably took me a year or two to actually get out of this frame of mind. I guess I still got a little bit of it, because I'm bringing it up now was that they were saying that there's a place in this market for people like me, people that aren't you know, private school, aren't extremely book smart. I'm the, and I always get a laugh and a joke from this. But, yeah, I'm the face of the business, I'm the looks, I'm the front end. You know, what I tell my clients is that I'm here to talk to them and to draw out of them what they actually want. I have, you know, the, the, the qualifications to be able to know the best strategies to take for certain people, but I don't know everything. And if there's any financial planner, wealth manager, however many letters you got after your name, you don't know everything. And I think there's a lot of people out there that might feel comfortable with being quite. I know a lot. I know a lot.
Speaker 1:My strategy is completely different. I underplay what I know, um, and then sometimes I I tell people that I'm pretty stupid, you know, and just keep, keep it quite simple. Um, I guess it's a defense mechanism, but it it opens up and it gets people to be more comfortable with me. The background I have that sorry. The people behind me at sjp that are there to support me and us as a company are phenomenal.
Speaker 1:I don't need to be super smart in every single area because I've got the number saved on my phone that I can speak to someone and, you know, get an understanding of how to do things and actually they're really quite friendly. You know, it's not. They don't make you feel stupid, because the amount of stuff you have to learn on the cii exams I shouldn't really be saying this, but you probably forget about a third of it because there's just so much content. Yeah, um, and it isn't when it, until it comes up in a, in a client meeting, you go oh, I don't know. I can remember a little bit of that, but I can't actually remember all of it. Let me just check and I think where I I have become successful is my clients see that. I go do you know what? I think I know the answer. I think it's this, but I want to check because I want to make sure I'm giving you the right advice.
Speaker 2:That's huge does that help you? So I'm not going to speak on from my perspective. I'm going to ask you a question, actually um short-term, long-term memory. When you have adhd, what's yours like non-existent, which one? Long-term or short-term? Short-term, short-term, yeah, okay. Long term, yeah, brilliant, yeah, same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you long term, I can remember so much stuff and the funny thing is I can remember meetings and someone will say something to me and I remember it vividly, like I can. I can bring it back and it will always pop up into my head and it will and and there are certain things that people say and how they say it, the emotion behind it, and it really sits within my head and I can remember that and I can almost close my eyes and I can go back and I can picture the whole thing, like I can go back in time and see the whole thing right Five minutes ago. Someone speaks to me and gives me some information. It's gone, it's out of my head and that always freaked me out when it came to the idea of doing qualifications. It's always freaked me out when it came to the idea of doing qualifications.
Speaker 2:Why in school I didn't pass my gcc's. You know any levels and all of that. I found it really really, really hard to retain information. Yeah, how is that? So? Let's talk about that when it came to going through the exams, right, and let's talk about that as a financial planner. How much short term, how much, how important is short-term memory? How much of a struggle is it to your day-to but how has being in the SJP ecosystem helped you with that?
Speaker 1:Wow, a few questions there, let me. Let me see if I can remember where you are. Short term memory. So I would say I think the first thing I want to mention is that, yeah, short term memory is a real problem, I think, since I've been classed as having ADHD, I think it's helped my relationship with my wife as well, cause the thing that I always, always forget is when my wife says oh Dan, I've just put our son's clothes on the stairs, can you carry him up when he goes upstairs? And I literally step over and walk up and I'm like, and I'm like, babe, I swear on my life, I'm not doing this purpose. I just didn't remember that you want to. I lose keys, I lose my phone. Um, it's a nightmare. Um, it's really really bizarre, really bizarre how it works. So having that, that, that um ADHD bit of paper, has helped my relationship, because she knows how to deal with me. Now sometimes I'll be talking to her and I'll just completely just drift off, and then she's like, dan, you've not listened to a word I've said and I'm like okay, yeah, no problem. So, um, the question around, uh, you know how, how has SJP helped me?
Speaker 1:Uh, short-term memory, how I've learned around um the exams and stuff. I think when I started the exam journey if I can be completely honest and this is probably a really good one for for your listeners if I knew what I had to do to be a financial advisor before I started, I probably would have made excuses not to do it, because it it can be a long journey and for me it took me a longer time because I had to. I had to put the brakes on some of my learning and say, look, I'm not ready, I want to just slow down because it's all okay passing an exam to get some letters behind your name and then go and do the job. But I wanted to do the job properly and I said I want to actually learn this stuff. And I never thought I'd be saying this, but I actually quite enjoyed it, Quite enjoyed, sort of having some time to learn things and learn how I learn. That was, that was a key, key part. I think the more exams I've done, the I learned how to revise and how to to process the information, with the pinnacle probably being my RO6 exam, I think. I think I nailed that, but you know, it's just, yeah, one of those sort of things that you need to learn how to do exams.
Speaker 1:So I guess one of the bits of advice and SJP talk about this quite a lot. They talk about being brave, quicker, and I think if you've got even a desire to do this, just go for it. Don't research too much, just get straight into it. Because it's literally just changed my life. It really has. So I think the more research you do, the more you're just delaying things.
Speaker 1:And I've got a friend actually who I was thinking about him on the train on the way up Fantastic, fantastic guy Wants to get into financial planning, was looking to join the SJP Academy and he's delayed it, delayed, it, delayed it and I think he's just had his second child. And I was thinking on the way up on the train I was thinking I don't think he'll ever become a financial planner. I think he's almost left it too late. I hope it isn't because I think he'd be really good for the role. But it was just interesting to see how people procrastinate and eventually don't get around to doing it. So I think, just being and trust in the process. There's a lot of care out there and I guess there's other firms that do it as well, but the care and the the arm around me has been was being brilliant with the qualifications.
Speaker 2:That was probably the bit that would freak me out the most. Okay, if I was to become a financial planner, the first thing I think I've got to do those qualifications, and that freaks me out because it's not my strength. Well, I don't know if it's not my strength, I just put myself off. Based on my previous experience of exams, I wonder if I actually did apply myself and put my head into it and get support, would I get through those exams? I think I could back myself to say yes, I could, but the thought of it freaks me out because of the retention of information short term and having to bring that information to the surface.
Speaker 2:And when you do a test, the idea of a test freaks me out, the idea of sitting in front of you with three cameras and having conversation. I love it, I thrive off it, I get energy from it, but put me into a situation where I gotta do exams and it really causes me a massive amount of anxiety. I'm literally trans. I'm back to school at like 11, 12, 13 years old, sitting in a lesson, just kind of like like. I used to love learning but I wasn't very good at tests and I'm still exactly the same today. I love learning, but just not very good at the test side of it, so it does freak me out. How long did it take you to pass your exams?
Speaker 1:I think it usually takes normal people about six months, but I'd say it probably took me about a year, about a year, about a year To do all your exams, all my job. So I could constrain it a lot of the time Right, talk to us about that then.
Speaker 2:So you're in the academy. Yep, that was your job, so that was beneficial to you Huge Right.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't have done it if and having to have a team's call once every two weeks and have a catch-up about where we are on the exams, because you don't want to let anyone down, and that's what helped me, drive me forward and to get things moving Right.
Speaker 2:And then the support was there to be able to help you through. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:And I'd probably say the biggest bit of support. I don't know if this is going to be beneficial for the academy or not. It's actually the group, the academy itself. Yeah, I've heard that the, the friends you've got, like yesterday, me and me and my um, I say colleague, but when we're in different companies but we're still sjp um, we meet up probably three, four times a year.
Speaker 1:We work together, we grab a lunch, we chew the fat, we talk about, you know, things that go well, things aren't going well and we're really honest. You know when we're struggling with things. We're really honest when we're doing really well and, um, this particular guy had had his best month and it was just like, yeah, like let's celebrate that because we've done our ro6 together. So we were the last two in our group to do ro6, um, and yeah, the way that we studied, the way we learned together and stuff was brilliant and I think I probably would have failed the time I passed if it wasn't for him. So I think there's a huge amount of support and it's promoted. It's a WhatsApp group talk to each other, share questions, meet for coffees. That is promoted quite heavily.
Speaker 2:With the academy as well, where they have the terms and then you've got the qualifications that run alongside it. But you're actually learning about the job as you go along as well, so the practical side of actually doing the job. How beneficial was that for you to be able to do your exams and actually understand the practical side in a kind of academy setting?
Speaker 1:so for me it was huge. So I had um. So my senior partner is a guy called Alex Stanks and he has been phenomenal and I'd like to talk a little bit more further down the conversation around how he has helped me, because it's been brilliant. But allowing him to come into some of my client meetings early on so I'm not even qualified but I've brought in what we would call a prospect and he would lead the meeting with me sitting in and seeing how it's done helped me learn, helped me learn massively and actually I think it also helped him because obviously he had to be back on his game and because a lot of what we do is just a real deep conversation and when you get to know what you're doing, you know when, when someone says that you can pick that up and make a note of it, but it just becomes a conversation and that's when you've got your craft, your craft down to a, down to a t?
Speaker 1:Um. So just sitting in those conversations was was really really good um for my learning and to see how it goes. And some of the other people in my group who were book smart didn't do that and I I've never asked them I might have to go back and ask and see if that did affect their, their learning, because further down the line, you, you, you get to watch each other and you get to practice on each other in terms of, like, role play and stuff. If that's what you're into, um, it's that kind of it's it's promoted further on, but I think I've done it very, very early.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's the best way to do it so I've obviously spoken to lots of financial planners over the years, not just on my podcast, but I ran a recruitment company for 16 years, so the most tend to find a lot of the most academic people, the people that focus on the theory very early on in their careers and not engaging with prospecting or client meetings and what I would consider to be fundamentally how you grow a financial planning business but some find it quite terrifying, which is to sit in front of somebody building the relationships, selling yourself, selling your services. Some people freak out on that side, but they're really book smart, as you put it. They do tend to struggle later on, so they put all the emphasis on the learning and the theory. They do struggle with the relationship side, whereas people that are a bit more hands-on, who enjoy the relationship side, tend to be super successful, and there are so many financial planners that I've spoken to, like you, who are super successful, right, and a lot of those are dyslexic, have adhd. I've got so many people I know that are super successful, are definitely on the spectrum. Yeah, without a shadow of doubt they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but what they all do incredibly well is build relationships really early on, because they're almost kind of hyper connected. They know how to connect on an emotional level because they've only ever had to do that. You know that's how they kind of, that's how they've gotten along. It's like me I've okay, I'm not, I can't, I can't turn around and say, look at my degree. You know I have to turn around and look at my worth. And how do I? How do I articulate my worth? I have to show my worth. I have to explain my worth. I have to sell myself, I have to sell my services. I have to know about you and understand you. I need you to buy into me. I need that beautiful oxytocin to be released between us and that we connect deeper than what a couple of words after my name is or what I do for a job title. I want you to buy into me and we tend to find people that are like that tend to do quite well, and I've seen it in financial planning massively.
Speaker 1:I think my biggest fear when I went into financial planning it used to petrify me was the very beginning part of like a confidential financial review would be taking down their personal details, name, address, etc. How do you spell this particular name?
Speaker 1:how do you spell this address? I was really panicking about that and my technique to get around that. Now is I literally one of the first things I say and it's almost like a script. It I go just to let you know. I'm extremely dyslexic, so I spell like a child. So every now and again I'm going to have to ask you to spell just to make sure I get it right.
Speaker 1:Um, and I've also got ADHD, which basically means that every now and again, if you're talking to me, I might look out the window because I've seen something shiny. It's not because you're boring, it's just because I've got this. So just make sure that I'm concentrating. And they're oh, yeah, no problem, and I've never had any. I just saying that I've had one person that's asked me a really strange question before, but other than that it's all been yeah, cool, no problem. And they then automatically go you know, oh, my name is this, and then they'll go oh, and they spell it out makes my life so much easier. I still spell it wrong because they say it's so bloody quick, I can never keep up, but it's, it's you learn. Learn techniques by doing it, by being brave and just going out there and showing your weaknesses. I think people like that, and the amount of times I've also had people say, oh, that's interesting, I'm slick as well, and straight away rapport's built.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instantly, and it helps a lot. Yeah, I love that Mentalship. You said that was really important in that early part there.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:So peer group Alex Touch on Alex. Yeah, speak about Alex. Yeah, let's go Alex.
Speaker 1:So Alex, as I've said, is my senior partner, been in the industry, probably about 12 years now, joined young, you know, T-boy, that's how we joined straight out of school. I knew him as a, so he was my wife's and I says my wife's best best friend. There's a group of them, but one of the best friends, uh, younger brothers and I used to know him as a young star, like he'd be playing on his playstation. We'll have a catch up. Hey, dude, mate, you're right. And then one day I saw him at a wedding and, um, he literally was like oh hello, how are you?
Speaker 1:and I was like bloody hell, you've grown up. And we had a really good conversation and then that's what led on about a year or so afterwards. That's what led on to that text message. I hear you want to get into financial planning, do you want to catch up? But he supports me like I've never been supported all my life. He's a genuinely good person.
Speaker 1:Now, one of the reasons that I joined his practice one because I kind of wanted to get into it and he was the only one offering me at the time. But secondly, we had a conversation about watches in a pub once. Um, now Alex is extremely successful. Um does does very, very well. Um, and we spoke about watches and I was like, why don't you wear a watch? And he was like, oh, because of you're not really interested in it. Not really money orientated um, he drives a, drives a polo, not money orientated at all, but he earns more money than than god. It's unbelievable. But what he enjoys is people succeeding and doing well. So he'd much rather take me and the team out and spend 500 pound on a meal than buy himself nice clothes. And sometimes and it's going to kill me if there's sometimes he wears a shirt and he's got like tatty bits on his shirt and I'm like, alex, buy yourself another shirt, man. But he'd rather put time and effort into other people and he's a really, really good bloke.
Speaker 1:But how does that help? Look for me I think this is what you're after he helps me with with. If I have a complex email to write, he helps me write it. So he says, have a stab at it, I'll have a write. You know I'll write the write the email. And then he says, oh, what about this? What about that? Well, what are you actually wanting from the client now? Because you've got no, you've got no outcome here. What do you actually want the client to do? And he'll help me rewrite it.
Speaker 1:Sometimes he this hasn't really helped me, but it's helped me in the short term, but not in the long term. Here, write it for me. So, yeah, that'd be a better one. And he's helped me with that. He's coached it. As someone with adhd I I overcomeate things to the nth degree and when you're a financial planner in a world that is quite complex for clients, the key is to be really simple and to keep it really really easy. And he sometimes goes well, why are you doing this? Why don't we do this, this and this? Because that's a little bit simple. Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Do? You find it's a bit like a tap right, you can't turn it off. So let's say, for example, you've got somebody in front of you and you can see some problems that they're experiencing. Right, it might just be the fact that they're sat in front of you because they want to work their money problems out. But you go a bit deeper, and deeper, and deeper and you can see all these things and all these problems and all these solutions and you're to you like, yeah, I want to help people more than more than physically as possible sometimes yeah you know I've been, you know, around a client's house before and having a lovely conversation with a and her daughter was looking to get into an elite sport like physiotherapy, that kind of medical profession in within sport.
Speaker 1:You know, I knew I knew people within england rugby and you know I'm now spending time contacting them on linkedin to to get her some work placements. You know I'm now spending time contacting them on linkedin to to get some work placements. You know, and it's that sort of level of support that I kind of want to share from the rooftops and say that this is what I do for my clients. But as time gets busy, am I going to actually be able to do all this sort of stuff? Um, so that's the kind of mental battle in my head. I'm kind of I want to do more stuff, I want to make sure that everything is completely right, um, do you?
Speaker 2:you know what you've got to do but sometimes you get derailed really easily.
Speaker 2:Huge, yeah, I'm exactly the same. Do you know what that works brilliantly in business development? Yeah, yeah, so the client meeting it's like I've not ever sat down as a client meeting but I've done client meetings with people. Right, it's just like there is a, there's a process to follow and you want to kind of kind of track with it. Right, it's a slick process and you want to stay on track because of time and all of that kind of stuff. But when it comes to business development, you can go out and just talk to anybody and you can network. I mean, you network. The whole point is to connect somebody with somebody else and connect somebody with somebody else, and I love that and that's where my neurotransmitters in my head are growing and growing and growing.
Speaker 2:But it's people, and then I'm able to move people around really quickly and introduce people really quickly and my product of that is I become more and more trusted, yeah, as somebody that can add value to somebody's life outside of just trying to make money out of them or something like that.
Speaker 1:I think that during the academy process you'd learn lots of things and lots of it I'd be going oh, I actually do that naturally anyway, but that's why it's happening, yeah. So, for instance, networking, I always go out my way because I want to be helpful and I want to be wanted, I want to be liked. So that's why I do these sort of things. I'm craving. That's my sort of addiction. I want, I want people to, to want me and need me, and the how do I say this? I was always doing that.
Speaker 1:But actually, from a financial advisor's perspective, if you naturally give someone something, then all of a sudden they're going to feel obligated to reciprocate something back. And if that's sitting down with you to then have a conversation around their pension or something, then you've got your foot in the door. To then have a conversation around their pension or something. Then you've got your foot in the door to then have a conversation with them, to support them and have an opportunity to then build further trust. So there's a reason why it happens, but I've always done it. So it's really quite interesting. I think that's why I'm successful in this field, because I do it naturally. Yeah, you're natural, you naturally want to help and stuff. You feel bad when you can't because you're wired a certain way.
Speaker 2:Right, but there are things you are naturally good at probably more so than lots of people out there because you're wired a certain way. What is considered to be possibly a negative actually isn't. There's a it's when people say, like your neurodiversity is your superpower, and I always kind of struggle with that a little bit because it's like well, try being in my head, because it is really freaking difficult sometimes. Yeah, but actually when I've stopped now and I've accepted it, I am actually thinking, wow, that is like a superpower. That is like I've got to lean into that area because if that's the area that I'm really good at, then spend more time in that.
Speaker 2:Stop spending time trying to craft the most perfect email or the most perfect operation or the most perfect systems, because, sam, you're not good at that, go and find somebody who's amazing at that. I'm doing that at the moment. I've got this virtual VA. I've got this virtual operations manager that's implementing all this outreach and technology and CRM automation, and I just get to go into this group chat and just articulate in voice notes, in videos, everything I want, and they go away and they're doing it and they're building it all for me. But then in between them I've got my wife, and my wife is overseeing them, listening to what I want, interpreting it to them and coming back to me and then feeding it back to me. So I've got like layers of people that are helping me, but these are all virtual. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, they don't break in the bank. These yeah, right, they don't break in the bank. These are all completely virtual for me, but that area of expertise is huge and they're super into operations. You know they're not podcasters, they're not business developers, that's what they do. Um, but I need someone to then manage those people because otherwise I'll just tack it off, because I can't be asked, because it's too much energy and too much effort. I'd rather be talking about things over here and the shiny things.
Speaker 2:The problem with that is you go out, you develop a load of business, you talk to loads of people brilliant, I got loads of business on. I've had a really good, good, good month, um, the last couple of months, right, but then it has. Then there's a whole process behind it that I have to do. Yeah, I forget about that. I forget about that process behind it. Then you spend your whole time trying to trying to like spin plates, trying to deal with, deal with the process that.
Speaker 2:Then you take your foot off the gas when it comes to the business development. So you get straight up, highs and down, lows and up and down and up and down, which then causes me a massive amount of anxiety. So I've stopped, I've paused, I've said right, I need those operations in pace and I need someone that's running those operations, because I can't do it and that's what I'm now building. So, as long as the operation and everything's running smoothly, if I have to take my foot off the gas, I know that there's still automated outreach going on over there. I know there's somebody that's running my operation and making sure that people are being followed up and processes are being done, and that, for me is key, because that's the sort of thing that gives me anxiety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that story you mentioned reminds me of, actually, when I first was active out in the field of being a financial advisor, I spent probably about three months, maybe four months, creating this spreadsheet and if you're into excel spreadsheet, this was fantastic. Are you into excel spreadsheets? I enjoy it. I enjoy it, excuse me, purely because it looks. It looks fancy. And I created this spreadsheet. We had all my leads where they were on their journey, what meetings I'd had with them, what documents I'd given to them. It was brilliant.
Speaker 1:And alex once said to me do you really need to spend the amount of time you're doing on this spreadsheet? And I was like, oh no, it's not right, I'll do it all over again. And I I would probably say I spent 40 of my working week on this spreadsheet because I wanted to make sure that I didn't forget or lose where I was with a client, because when you get a lead, it's important. You want to nurture that and support them. And he said if I were to say to you where is this client, you'd be able to tell me exactly where that client is on that journey. I said, yes.
Speaker 1:He said, well, you don't need all of that sort of stuff. Then Just put you know date you last spoke to them, what you're doing with them, what needs to happen them what needs to happen. That's all you need to do. And I was like, wow, I feel really uncomfortable with that, but let me give it a go. Yeah, I'll tell you what it saved me. No end, no end. And it's just interesting, you know, getting covered away with processes. Sometimes you can just sort of step back and go do I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go old school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the hyper focus part, though isn't it like you can hyper focus on something?
Speaker 1:and you can't let it go.
Speaker 2:It's like, almost like an obsession. Yeah, the very thought of letting it go causes me an insane amount of anxiety, which is why I just need to be able to tell somebody, articulate it, and they do it for me yeah, so I don't have to think about it.
Speaker 2:I just say what my problem is and what solution I want, and I keep battering them with my problem and the solution I want until I see it work, and then that's great but at Futurum we have we have two other members of staff that sit with us and they're sort of the guys in the office that help keep everything running smoothly and they are.
Speaker 1:They are brilliant, absolutely brilliant in terms of me just going can we get this done? Bang, they're on it and they, they get everything sorted for me. So my journey as a financial advisor is so much easier compared to a lot of my peers where they have to go and spend hours writing stuff. I've got guys that will write it for me, then I can read it, then I can say well, actually, apologies, I didn't tell you about X, y and Z, but this needs to be in there as well. So it's a different strategy around how I provide my advice.
Speaker 2:It's interesting what you said there about your well, your journey is different from other financial planners journey. Right, and let's talk about that, because kind of two options isn't there when you come to st james's place. You're either going as a partner and you run your own partner practice, or you come in and you join a partner practice. Yeah, you chose to go in underneath another partner practice. Yeah, why?
Speaker 1:um, at the time I went in because obviously Alex was my link in and I think and I still believe this, whether this is right or wrong, I still believe that if you're not coming from financial services and you haven't got a market, going in as a single standalone partner is tough. And I think if I and I said this to Tom, the guy I met with yesterday from my company he's a single partner and I said to him, if I'd done what you'd done, I wouldn't be here now, if you went down the practice route For my personal style and the support I've gained from the academy, from my peers, from my boss Alex, I wouldn't be here.
Speaker 1:He's helped me huge why?
Speaker 1:Just strategies, simplifying things. I would have lost a lot of clients early on because I'd have tried to prove my worth to them. I know about pensions. I know about ISAs my worth to them, you know. I know about pensions. I know about ISIS. I know about uh, unit trusts. I know about bonds. You know. Tell, tell, tell, tell, tell.
Speaker 1:If you ever watch one of Alex's meetings, he listens all the time and it's that style I've developed off of him. Um, and I'd like to think when I met with Tom, my colleague from the academy, that's what he's got out of me. So I've what learned from Alex. I passed on to him and helped him. So there's almost a case of will Tom be here if it wasn't for me because of our relationships and our chats?
Speaker 1:Looking at it that way, I just think it was probably confidence. To answer your question, why didn't I become a partner? Confidence and, yeah, confidence in that area. I think if I'd come from a financial services background or a sales background, I might have been a little bit more confident to go down that line, and there's a lot of people that have gone in as partners and I'm like Jesus Christ, how have you done that? That is really, really brave and they're making a huge success of it, because I don't really know too much about it, but SJP do provide a lot of support for single partners because obviously it's a bit more of a commitment and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:It's a big, big plug and play model. It's a big plug and play model and it's not to say it's easier. You know there are people going in that run their own partner practices that still struggle.
Speaker 1:Nothing's easy in life, right, yeah, definitely not.
Speaker 2:Otherwise everyone would be partners. Yeah, it's like nothing's always perfect, and it's also down to the individual that goes in, but I just think, one of the things that sgp do really well, which is why I want to go back to the initial meeting that you have with them and you have those seven like meetings right.
Speaker 2:They do a lot of due diligence and I think there's a perception in the market they're just literally grabbing someone in a headlock and saying come on, come into sgp off you go, we're going to load you up with loads of debt or anything like that of people that I know that have gone through St James' Place, whether they've gone through the academy, whether they come in as a partner or whatever. The due diligence at the very, very beginning to make sure that it's the right fit for them is huge, and I just want to did that. So when you chose to become a part, chose to become an advisor underneath a partner practice or run your own partner practice, did they run through the differences with you? Did they talk to you about business? I?
Speaker 1:think from the offset I was like I definitely do not want to become a partner in my own right at this stage right, yeah so I think I cleared that up quite, you'd already made that, yeah, I think I've made that decision and they didn't try and convince you otherwise.
Speaker 1:Um, there was, there was conversations about it, yeah for sure. Um, but it was kind of put to bed quite quickly because I think my mind was my mind was made um, and obviously alex was there to support me, which I think provides sap with a little bit more more support one of the biggest struggles new financial planners have is client development, so building client relationships, finding new, new clients, etc.
Speaker 2:How have you approached that so early on in your career and what success have you had so far?
Speaker 1:So, finding new clients, I get mine. The whole industry is all on referrals. Hardly anyone out there Googles find a local financial advisor and find someone that they actually want to work with. It's all with referrals. And then it's sort of like secondary or secondary referrals from people that have become clients. Um, that's kind of how I get my my clients. I do a lot of networking. Um, I think my biggest sell point is me being able to talk to people and and make people feel comfortable. That's kind of what I do with the use of humor. I like to think it's humor. Some people might not find it funny, but you know it's. That's kind of let's have a conversation, let's see how I can help you. Um, that's kind of how I've built my my client bank up and what does the future hold for you?
Speaker 2:where do you, where do you see, say, the next three to five years? Do you think? Do you think that far ahead?
Speaker 1:uh, I'm going through the process of of purchasing some clients, um, but it won't be. I'm not going to buy a lot of clients because I think I've got a good model in in naturally bringing on clients on board, um, but I want to explore how how to do that. So me and alex have had conversations about you know we call it into the business. We haven't really ID'd how that looks. Alex said to me right from the beginning I want to make it so good for you that you never want to leave. And at the moment it's there. I really enjoy it. We have fantastic times, the relationship's there, the work's there, it's going really well. So, unless it's broken, don't fix it. That's the saying, isn't it? If?
Speaker 2:it's not broken, don't fix it. I think if the environment's right, then why do you have to step out and run your own partner practice? That's what I like about SJP as well. It gives you the options right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've got to focus on why am I doing this? I didn't come into this because I want to provide financial advice to people. That wasn't the initial. I want to do this. I want to. I want to tell people about pensions. I have become a pension pension loser. Now I love it.
Speaker 1:My wife tells me off all the time, but I got into it because I wanted to. I wanted to have a good quality of life. Okay, um, I always describe myself as champagne ideas with lemonade money. I've always wanted to go out and have the nicest things in the world and, you know, enjoy myself and I wanted to have that for my family. So I guess that's where I'm going and if I'm being able to provide that with Futurum for my family while also enjoying it, why change? If it becomes less fun and it's not so good and there's a better route, then I'll explore that route. But you know, in life it's about good people and I think alex is a good person, so I'm going to stick with him and the team we've got behind us is is decent, and I think that creates a lot, of, a lot of good energy and and you feel relaxed in it.
Speaker 1:I think if I was in a workplace where I didn't respect or appreciate my boss then, yeah, I think you're always going to have, you know, looking over your shoulder, see what opportunities are out there and stuff like that. I remember seeing seeing jobs when I was at England Rugby. Pop up and go, I'd love that job, love that job. And I was constantly on on job sites and um stuff with england rugby and promotions within thinking, oh, what a job can I take? What I've? Literally I remember I've received two or three emails since I've been here and it's like no, not interested, and that must, that must be a almost a subliminal sign to say that I'm happy. Yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:You feel secure yeah, yeah that's it. That's what you're looking for. You're looking for that security look.
Speaker 2:You're looking for security for your family. It sounds like you're looking for some good financial security, security of long-term opportunity. Financial planning provides all of that, absolutely without a shadow of a doubt. It ticks your boxes on the things that you love doing, which is building relationships, meaningful relationships where you can change people's lives and impact on their well-being not just theirs, but their family's well-being, their future well-being. I think the byproducts of being a financial planner is it's often overlooked. People just think you're sitting in a room delivering like, oh, I know, I can tell you where to invest your money. Basically, it runs deeper than that and I think, for somebody who is a high empath like yourself, I think it ticks the boxes and makes it feel like you're doing something which is meaningful and has purpose in your life because it positively impacts so many people, and I think um, I think that's a massively under observed area of a career within financial planning is the positive impact that you can have on people's life, and a byproduct of that is how you feel.
Speaker 1:I think when I, when I left england rugby um and was doing my studying well, actually before before I committed to that I was doing some delivery driving. So between roles I was doing. I was working for fedex actually doing international collections, which was fantastic. Fantastic to listen to podcasts, to learn, explore what I was doing. And I had loads of people say, dan, you've got some really good skills, you'll feel really good in this job. And I was looking at jobs in procurement and stuff. God knows why I wanted to do that and I was going for. I was going for all this. I'd like to think of myself as quite organized and I and come in, you'll get this job, okay, I'll apply. So I apply and then you get to the, the last interview, and then they go sorry, we're not gonna, we're not gonna take you on because we're gonna go with someone more experienced. I'm like, why don't you just tell me that from the beginning? Because my experience isn't going to change and I'll get the job. So that was a an interesting um journey, one of the things I think they call it an epiphany I had during that. That, that thinking time was what.
Speaker 1:What did I enjoy about England Rugby? Because, as much as I. I literally would not change anything and I'm in. I'm in the best possible place and this career is so much better for me than what England Rugby was. I don't want a bad mouth and the RFU, because I had a fantastic time. I had absolutely everything I could possibly want. I had a team that was brilliant. We used to get kit given to us all of the time, like T-shirts and tracksuit bottoms. I don't think I literally lived in England Rugby gear because I didn't have to buy anything Laptops, phones. We had a sponsorship deal with I'm not even sure what it was, I'd say the company, but Mitsubishi and they used to give us a new truck every three months or 8,000 miles Well, because they wanted the new ones on the market and stuff like that. So it was brilliant.
Speaker 1:But the one thing it didn't offer me was financial security, and it was always like oh, can I, can I get a pay rise? Can I get a pay rise? And it was. It was kind of like a no, you can't, you can't have a pay rise, don't dare ask for more money. And and I was always uncomfortable with that and my, my boss at the time um, we had.
Speaker 1:We started off really quite dodgy as a relationship. As it progressed we were, we were really really close and she was brilliant for me, really really, really good. And it was almost like she used to say that if you want that and you'll miss out on that you need to go into a different sector, because sports is not going to provide you for that until you get, unless you're a professional player or a professional coach at the highest level. But I wasn't brave enough to make that leap, so I worked out what do I actually like, and for me it was the conversation out what do I actually like?
Speaker 1:And for me it was the conversation when I coach someone or mentor someone or manage someone and you you tell them to do something in a slightly different way and they achieve it, whether, if it's rugby play, teach them how to tackle, or they you do a certain move and they score a try. Or you know you someone's working with someone that's quite difficult to work with and you give them a technique and it works that light bulb moment when their eyebrows raise and they go oh, I love what you're doing. That was. That was my sort of like uh, is it nirvana? Like? That was my addiction and I worked out. That's what I like solving problems and actually that's what I get from from advising nice.
Speaker 2:There's something you said there as well when you're in a corporate world, whatever it is right and there's a structure in place in respects of how much you can earn, there's always a ceiling right. So you said like I could have gone up, but it wasn't brave enough. Maybe it was just the fact that it was just another ceiling right. One thing that being a financial planner does, and especially like an ecosystem like St James' Place, is it gives's a cash event. Yep, so there's an opportunity for you to build a client book and then sell it within that ecosystem to an advisor and pass on those relationships to somebody else.
Speaker 2:And because the business is all within st james's place, due diligence etc is very easy to done and you know that you can work towards a goal and you know, wow, if I hit that figure, I could retire with this much, and there isn't many careers that can allow you to do that, and I think that's something that people really, really understand. If you want to control your destiny, if you want to earn the amount of money you want to earn, if you just want to have the freedom to be able to work towards whatever financial goal it is you want, it is massively achievable in financial planning as a profession, but it's definitely massively achievable within the ecosystem of St james's place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one thing I've seen yeah, but you can't just turn up. You can't just turn up and you're gonna get a fat paycheck. No, it's, it's. It's hard. Graft is and I think it's a lot harder than people expect um, but their possibilities are there but look, you're not afraid of hard work.
Speaker 2:Definitely, people aren't afraid of hard work. People are afraid of working really hard and not being recognized for it and not being able to control their destiny and how much they can earn. I agree, do you know what I mean? Yeah, so take that hard working person. Let's call them like a very entrepreneurial person. Somebody's got ambition right. In that environment, you can be pushed down for your ambition. It could be a negative because you're stepping up and you're challenging the structure. Take you out of that environment, that aspiration. You're an aspirational, ambitious, entrepreneurial person. If you're working that out and you're listening to this podcast right now and you're thinking to yourself, that's me. You get loads and loads of support, a tried and tested blueprint, evidence and testimonials from people that have actually done well and achieved more and earned more than they ever thought they could, and had a higher purpose and enjoyed the job that they're doing.
Speaker 2:Take yourself out of that environment and become what I would consider to be an entrepreneurial in person, an entrepreneur yeah within an environment that is geared and designed to support you to be the best version of yourself you can be, because in there, unfortunately, big fish, small pond over here, get into a bigger, you know, get into a bigger pond and start to grow as a person, and that's the difference, and that's the bit that then goes I'm free. I'm free to when you talk about ponds.
Speaker 1:It's quite interesting. You are who you involve yourself around 100 you know, and if you involve yourself around people that you know, earning earning a hundred thousand pound is kind of like they expected. In my old sector that was like director level, like bloody hell, can you imagine earning a hundred thousand a year in this sector? It's kind of like the norm, mate like. But there's a lot of people that are just to get that completely clear.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of people that are financial advisors that don't earn that sort of money and and I don't know whether it's grotesque to talk about it- but I think it is quite important for me to share that when I first started, I had three, maybe four months and I earned and I'm going to say it like this I shit you not, I earned £5.70. In what A month? Right, yeah, okay, you offer a month, right? Yeah, okay, for three or four months, yeah, and there was some head scratching going. What have I done? Yeah, but I was confident because I could see the meetings happening. I could see the, the opportunities.
Speaker 1:My problem was I didn't have enough knowledge on how to process things. So I'll give you an example. Now you have to get so many forms signed, you have to do certain things in a certain order, and I was doing it the academy way, but because I didn't have experience experience at the end of one meeting, I could be saying, okay, no problem, we're at this stage. Now you can sign this form, this form, this form, then this form, because I didn't have that. It was kind of I need to have a meeting with this person, can you sign this form. I need to have a meeting with this person, can you sign this form? Now you know what ones you can get done at what stage, which means it's a lot smoother, a lot quicker. Don't get me wrong. Some business takes, at least, you know, six months to to process some of the bigger stuff.
Speaker 1:Um, but because I didn't have that experience at the time, I was going oh yeah, I've got five pound. I lucky, I had some savings and I could utilize that. And, um, you know, my wife was extremely supportive and she's never let me forget that. Do you remember when you were on your ass? She says but that was really helpful and I still had that belief that the money is there. And to go completely the other way last year I had a month where I earned more than I earned in a whole year's salary with England Rugby. There we are A whole year's salary, yeah, and I remember just going wow, wow.
Speaker 1:What was horrible was most of it went on tax. So obviously I couldn't put much more into pension. But it's one of those things. It's horrible, isn't it, you know? But that was a real success moment. I've got one more, one more success. I'm not going to tell you what it. I get that if I hear it. I've done everything I wanted to. When I said that when I joined the academy, in how long, I didn't give myself a timeframe, but that's when I know it was 100% the right thing to do, so how?
Speaker 2:long have you been here for?
Speaker 1:Three and a bit years, nice, okay, so I'll message you when it happens. I'll message you. All right, top man.
Speaker 2:I've done it. Listen, I you're a shining example that the financial planning career is for everybody. I think what we've learned today is, regardless of how you're wired, you can be a success. Yeah, it's who you are inside that that really really matters. I think honesty, transparency is so important, as is a supportive environment. The culture yeah, culture and environment is so, so important um to how we feel about ourselves and how we feel comfortable and confident to be able to work the way that we feel the most comfortable to work. And the only way you can do that really is by being open and honest. But when you go into an environment and they're actually geared towards helping you and supporting you, not making you feel uncomfortable, that's a game changer in my eyes, and St James's Place, by the sounds of it, really really helped you from start to finish, and you're not even finished yet. You're just beginning, just beginning amazing happens.
Speaker 2:Well, dan, it's an absolute pleasure, really, really appreciate it. Thank you for being so honest and open. You've certainly inspired me. I'm sure you're going to inspire lots of people that are thinking about joining the St James's Place Academy. So thank you so much. Very kind. Thank you for being so honest and open. You've certainly inspired me. I'm sure you're going to inspire lots of people that are thinking about joining the st james's place academy.
Speaker 1:So thank you so much, very kind, thank you for having me, cheers.
