Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
20 Years, 450+ People: The Foster Denovo Growth Journey with Roger Brosch
Roger Brosch | 20 Years of Foster Denovo, 47% Growth, and the Launch of Foster Denovo Talks
In this episode of Financial Planner Life, we welcome back Roger Brosch, CEO of Foster Denovo, to reflect on a standout year for the business.
- 47% revenue growth
- 200+ new hires
- 7 acquisitions
- A thriving culture that’s stronger than ever
Roger shares what’s driven Foster Denovo’s success over the last 12 months, who he credits for the results, and why they’ve just launched their own podcast, Foster Denovo Talks, produced by Financial Planner Life Productions.
We dive into:
- The power of culture in driving performance
- The importance of transparency in talent attraction
- Why storytelling is now part of their employer brand
- What Foster Denovo Talks aims to achieve
Whether you're an aspiring financial planner, a firm owner, or simply curious about what people-first leadership looks like at scale - this is an episode worth tuning into.
📢 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and follow Foster Denovo Talks for more insights from inside one of the fastest-growing firms in the UK.
Begin your financial planning career journey today
Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast. We welcome back Roger Grosh, ceo of Foster De Novo, and we take a look at 2024 and the huge amount of success they've had. So we've had a great year very positive and really encouraging.
Speaker 2:It's brought 200 new people to the business, 200 new staff, so we're over 450 now.
Speaker 1:We also look at some of the challenges. We look at the infrastructure of the business and why it is a fantastic place for self-employed financial planners to build out their careers.
Speaker 2:All of these things are things that they can outsource, if you like, to us, and it enables them to grow much more quickly.
Speaker 1:We talk about acquisitions, practice buyouts, the future of financial planning and what Foster De Novo plan plans do in 2025 continue to grow organically.
Speaker 2:A lot, of, a lot of that will be driven by our ability to look after more clients. Ai will help enormously with that. We genuinely see that going to 300 over the next two or three years and that just brings in more revenue, more opportunity and more income for everybody.
Speaker 1:You are not going to want to miss this episode if you want to hear about the future of financial planning here at Foster De Novo. So, roger, welcome back to the Financial Planner Live podcast. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you, sam. Nice to see you again. Lovely, it's only been a year since I was here last time and I heard you were a bit of a superstar down the rugby club when everyone caught an episode of the Financial Planner Live podcast. How was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got a bit of a ribbing. I have to say it was a bit of an uncomfortable experience, but the feedback's been really positive, Sam, so we appreciate you helping us get our message out there. So thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, it's been a pleasure to come back because I've also been recording the Foster De Novo Talks podcast, which is your podcast, and if anybody wants to listen to that, head on over to Spotify, Apple or YouTube and search for Foster De Novo Talks, and the first episode with Helen is outstanding. So it's been a real pleasure getting to know the business in even more detail. So what a wonderful way to get people to understand great work that you're doing. But also internally, I'll tell you what lots of people within your business are going to listen to that and see a completely different side to the people that run it and the people that are in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think our profile has really raised the last couple of years and we've been probably quite a good, well-kept secret prior to that. But it is important to get the message out there, and I think it's important that the message is conducive with the type and style of business that we are and certainly the sort of intent we have where we're looking to go. So, yeah, it's a really positive step for us, excellent.
Speaker 1:So I came into the business beginning of 2024. So let's have a recap of 2024. How did it go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've had a great year, very positive and really encouraging results. Our revenue for the year was up 47%. Our profitability, our EBITDA, was up 58% year on year. So that's a really positive step for the group. Very much on plan, but it's nice to see it flowing through. With the effort that we've put in. It's brought 200 new people to the business, 200 new staff. So we're over 450 now, which is fantastic, and I think it's a massive statement about cultural development that we've focused on delivering to the market. And the response that we've had is, as I say, really, really positive.
Speaker 1:So EBITDA going up, revenue going up what are the biggest numbers going up as well. So talk to us about some of the biggest factors that have done that for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we focus on our acquisitive growth. That's really important to us and we have brought now seven new businesses to the group. Four of those came to us last year in 2024, but a lot of the effort that was put in to achieve those was probably in 22 and even 23. And we have also done four practice buyouts. As you know, we're on a self-employed model. The hybrid model here is something that's very important to us strategically. And those practice buyouts as you know, we're on a self-employed model. The hybrid model here is something that's very important to us strategically. And those practice buyouts are something that we continued. We've done 22, now about to do 23. And we completed four of those as well last year.
Speaker 2:So the acquisitive growth, whether it's internal or external, has been very important to us. But our core business has seen some really strong organic growth as well. So the organic growth across the business last year was over 15%. She's very strong considering the challenges that we've had with integration of acquisitions and there's a lot of work going on. So to see the organic growth running alongside the acquisitive is really encouraging.
Speaker 1:What do you think has been the biggest contributing factor to that, then?
Speaker 2:Well, I think on the acquisition side it comes back to culture.
Speaker 2:As you know, we talk about that a great deal here and we're very much focused on the right people. So the assessment of finding you know we're quite choosy and our assessment of finding the right businesses that will be a really good cultural and propositional fit for the group is vital, and you know we've got better and better at that and we're really delighted with the businesses that we've acquired. They tend to recommend us on. You know, when you pick the right businesses to acquire, the market shows a lot of interest and so you know a good example of that would be up in Newcastle where we acquired a lovely business called Wade Financial. That brought about 2 million revenue to us and we've added to that with introductions from the team there, consistently some self-employeds another small acquisition that we're looking to bolt on so that that regional hub, which started with an acquisition, is now up to nearly 5 million revenue a year and we can really show a substantial foothold in that region and supply the sort of support services that we want to the local community that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:The more you acquire, the more the market starts to listen and they start to reach out to you on a direct basis. So good news travels fast. Interesting, that isn't it. When one business sells, another one sees it and is interested in coming to you. It's actually very positive yes, I think so.
Speaker 2:It's a self-fulfilling and you know, actually, if you're attracting the right sort of businesses, I think that's what you get. Our sector has always been strong on referral. You know, if you talk about our client growth, that's still largely driven by referrals. People want to talk about it when they're delivered a good service and if they have a great experience.
Speaker 1:And that's the same with acquisitions as it is with individual client service it's's brilliant to hear Nikos and Helen talking about the integration of AI over the last year as well and how that's improved processes for advisors. So a hugely positive aspect as well, which I can imagine has had a really positive effect on the bottom line also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it has. I think we're still to see the real benefit realization for that. You know the sense. The sector was looking for solutions in 2024, we certainly went to market and we're working very hard to pick the right partner to work alongside. 2025, I think, will be the year of implementation. We're already quite advanced with that, as you've heard from other podcasts, but for me, the real benefits realization will come probably in 2026 and beyond. It takes quite a long time to get this technology really understood and utilized fully, albeit it's quite straightforward actually, as it's proving. But this year will be very much about implementation and I think we'll see the real benefits next year.
Speaker 1:Love that. So lots of positives. Then Any challenges you've come up against over the last year that has come on up and you've had to deal with.
Speaker 2:Look, I think integration is always a challenge. You know you acquire businesses, there's a lot of goodwill and we all believe that. You know the future together is going to be brighter, and we meet some bumps in the road. One of the challenges we've faced is resourcing making sure we've got the right resourcing levels. We do things in a way that sometimes is a step up for other businesses and that's not necessarily negative. It just requires more effort, more resource. So getting that resourcing right, bringing enough new people to the business and getting them in a position where they can really support the growth trajectory of the business, has been quite a challenge, and we've got a brilliant team. As you know, Helena and the talent acquisition team are superb, so they have managed to find us the right quality and quantity of people, but it's been a proper challenge in 2024.
Speaker 1:You're not alone on that front, by the way. Everyone's sort of struggling with no. I think that's right. Exactly the same thing, shut up and down. But I think things like this you know the, you know the podcasts bringing your own one to the table as well. It just raises the bar a little bit, lets people have a good old look on the inside, and I think it draws people in, gets them closer to the closer to the prize, if you like yeah, and we love to grow our own.
Speaker 2:As you know, we we very much look to invest in and grow the talent from from within, and when you're the growth of talent requirements is so great, then it's difficult to do that, so you need to accelerate that. Our academy has really grown and it's offering sort of training, learning, development for people at every level within the business and that does enable us to fill more and more of those vacancies from within. So it's a really positive step for us and now we've got into the right rhythm and pace We'll see that growth and support really running alongside the trading program, the academy that we've got.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite words so far this year is entrepreneurialism. You do run a business which is geared towards helping entrepreneurial individuals fulfill their personal growth ambitions and career ambitions, but on a self-employed basis. You've got the ecosystem here. You've got the structure. It is plug and play. How do you feel that sits within the market at the moment and do you think you're unique in that respect?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm not sure we're unique, but I do think we're unusual.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, the history of foster day now is very much of a hybrid nature, so we've always had employed and self-employed working alongside each other, and the central services that we provide to support the growth of either of those sort of models has enabled partners, as we call them, or advisors, to be able to focus 80 plus percent of their time on doing the things that they're very good at and make a real difference, and that's spending time with clients.
Speaker 2:It's growing and winning new clients, and we sort of take away a lot of the stuff, the things that are necessary and a requirement, but whether it's propositional development, whether it's technology investment, which is significant AI being a good example currently or whether it's regulation, all of these things are things that they can outsource, if you like, to us, and it enables them to grow much more quickly, and I think you've had people on your um, on your podcast, that have seen 30 40 percent growth in their first two or three years with us, and that's not unusual. As an example of what can happen when you are offloading stuff and and really backing yourself to to look after clients that enable the UK to grow, you're spot on.
Speaker 1:I had a younger advisor called Aleem who came on the Financial Planet Life podcast. I mean when he joined the business he had about a million under management.
Speaker 1:He's got 12 and a half in the last two years and he's smashing it, and one of the One of the things that really stands out to me was he's listening to the mentorship and the training and the guidance from some of those senior partners and that's something that he values massively. One of the things that he's taken on board is to let go and to not hold on to everything and to take that little step back. Hire administrators, lean into power planners and start to build that partner practices early as you can in your career and start to reap the benefits moving forward, and he's absorbed that like a sponge and you can just see when you listen to him how much that's affected his business and how positive he is about growth. Absolute legend. I love talking to him.
Speaker 2:He was a great guy and he's a brilliant example, I think, of what you're describing. So you know he, he will go on from strength to strength. There's no's no doubt he'll be another Nikos and beyond, I'm sure, in time. I do think the balance, which is difficult sometimes for other businesses to achieve, is the one between the entrepreneurial flair of the individual who has ambition and the capability to really grow, win clients, but at the same time, running a practice rather than running a business is the key differential and we take away a lot of the business central service functions that maybe don't add necessarily day-to-day to the client relationship in an obvious manner, and if you can offload those, you know you can really do more and spend more of your time doing the things that matter yeah, exactly, and look on the other end of the scale, like russell cook with the business that he's built underneath the practice.
Speaker 1:He's's been here for like 20 years. You know you're coming up to a 20 year anniversary, aren't you? We are. He's been here for like 20 years and you know he's talking about, like he wished he let go a little bit earlier on in the process.
Speaker 2:It's a big decision and it's not easy, and the reason our PPO structure works so well is we really do it when people are ready and when they see examples of other people having successfully transitioned or maybe de-risked and able to go again. If that's what they want to do, rather than necessarily retire, then people, I think, are encouraged to believe it can work for them. So having those examples around you are just evidence of the support and the optionality of how you can take your business forward.
Speaker 1:Amazing growth how do you stay humble and client-centric in a situation like that, when you're seeing such a huge amount of growth?
Speaker 2:I think you've got to stay true to your core values. As you know, we're really clear on our values. They're all about the people, all about staff, all about investing in people. One of our biggest successes last year was the Investors in People Platinum Award that we achieved and it speaks volumes, I think, for the connective tissue we have between the business and our staff. But ultimately, it's about ensuring that people understand the right behaviors, making sure that, even though you're growing quickly, you are selecting people who share those values. They see the world the same way, they understand what it is to deliver outstanding client service. And if you've got that alignment of purpose and, as you know, alongside our stakeholder culture, which gives people a little bit of an opportunity to share in the value we create, it just creates an alignment of purpose that, even when you're growing quickly, is compelling.
Speaker 1:How is that stakeholder sort of culture evolving? Is it evolving over time? Is it changed over the last year?
Speaker 2:Not dramatically over the last year, I think. We have always been a stakeholder business. We've always offered the opportunity for people to invest directly, right from day one. Back in 2005-06, we offered people the opportunity and that wasn't just to a select few, it was to every single person in the business and most of them took us up on that. We've always run option schemes and more recently, as you know, we launched a growth share scheme where we put 20% of the equity of the business into a growth share scheme and every single new joiner to Foster Day Nova gets the opportunity to subscribe and be involved in that growth share scheme. Virtually everybody takes us up on that and it means they've got a share certificate in their drawer that says that you know they're a stakeholder in the business and that's a powerful connection between the vision, the values and the strategy we have and the individual day-to-day work somebody might be doing so. It's powerful and we're certainly set to continue that long into the future. I believe it's an integral part of our sort of our business model yeah 100%.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a unique selling point. If someone's coming on board with Foster De Novo, especially around their future, you know. Are they aligned to business? Did they get a little something back for the wins as well? Absolutely?
Speaker 2:acquisitions. It's not just even businesses we acquire. Every single member of staff will be offered the opportunity. So it's it is different. Yeah, love it market trends.
Speaker 1:Then what are you seeing within financial planning over the last year? How are you responding to it?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think what's really interesting about the market is the demand that we were seeing three or four years ago as as continued demand for services, the demand for the opportunity to look after clients in the way that we do so and being a vertically integrated business, being hybrid, part self-employed, part employed, being part corporate as well as private wealth. You know, we really are seeing the market move towards our model. If you go back five or 10 years, I think being vertically integrated, having a self-employed arm, these were things that weren't very well understood. I think people now start to see that the growth potential that comes from the self-employed arm these were things that weren't very well understood. I think people now start to see that the growth potential that comes from the self-employed, aligned to your employed proposition, is really quite a powerful combination and cocktail for success. So you know, we're seeing that side of the market particularly. Demand has been as high as we've ever seen it.
Speaker 2:I think the challenge of AI is bringing everybody's very excited about it, but there's going to be some winners and losers, as we've always seen. I think picking your partner right is absolutely critical. We're also seeing a bit of a separation in the market between and regulation, I think, has driven that particularly consumer duty, those who have and have got themselves the other side of it and now very confident about what their world looks like post-consumer duty and there are others who are still wrestling with it and it's a proper challenge for the sector, I think, to come through and out the other side of that with a clear strategy and structure that does deliver the consistent and fair value client outcomes that are required yeah, I'll definitely say I'm echoing what you're saying about your environment.
Speaker 1:I think you definitely were ahead of the curve in respect to the type of business that you've built, and they're self-employed. People used to turn their nose up at self-employed. You know you don't have to go employed, but it's beautiful that you've got the option that you can actually do that and also having employed model within your business. When it comes to practice buyout, it becomes smoother process. If someone's going to come and join your business, they're thinking I would like to sell my business at some point. You've got the infrastructure in place. You've got the people in place to very quickly be able to take over their business and make it a very smooth transition for that person. We all know when someone wants to sell a business, it's a baby right. It's stressful and um want to make it as unemotional and as difficult as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you're trying to manage the change as effectively as you can. And if actually an awful lot of the operational side of the business isn't going to change client proposition, for example, charging, all of those sort of key things that can really unsettle clients and lead to concerns around retention so PBOs really enable that to be delivered much more smoothly. So, and of course, for us as an acquirer, if you've had a business that you've worked with for four or five years, when you do offer a practice buy, you can offer a higher value because it's a low risk transaction. So it's sort of win-win for everybody. The clients are comfortable because they know us and they're going to feel that sense of succession without too much change, and it works obviously as a high evaluation for the individual advisor who might be moving on, and for us it's lower risk. So it works all around fantastic.
Speaker 1:And from the corporate side, how, how's that going alongside private client? I know the last time we spoke, we talk about the app coming out and being able to help service those clients that may be not suitable for the private client side, but we don't want to let those fall between the cracks. And, yeah, not get that expert um opportunity to receive some form of financial planning or financial advice or investment solution. So how's that going? And is insight still rubbing shoulders really well with private client? Is it working?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's working really well. So, uh, we have always been quite a broad and deep, uh propositional capability. So, obviously, the corporate advice market there and and within private wealth, actually, particularly with acquisitions, sometimes they come across with clients that aren't necessarily all of clients that require the full advice service. So that advice gap is something we haven't really run away from. We've walked awards and we are about to launch our own digital advice service end to end and we're really excited about what that can bring for all clients, whether it's intergenerational wealth transfer younger clients perhaps are more comfortable dealing digitally whether it's potential clients within our corporate advice business when we're stimulating that, that call to arms through the work we do in the workplace, then there is a route that they can take prior to and maybe alongside, the full advice process. So for us, it's going to be the fourth pillar of our advice capability, alongside our private wealth, our corporate and our investment services, and we're really excited about the potential launch of that later this year.
Speaker 1:It was only this weekend. I was sitting down with a friend of mine, um, who runs a really great recruitment business. I know a lot of people in recruitment I did for 16 years. There was never really any kind of financial advice solution that was aimed at the recruitment industry. Um and we we talked about um simplification when it came to advice, so I would definitely introduce the business to you. They've got about 80 to 100 staff, fantastic average earnings 80 to 100k, but no one's knocking on their door to offer financial advice.
Speaker 2:I think the solution you're offering there is something which would be well received within the recruitment profession yeah, well, it's something for everybody and I think what what we, what we look at is is for those clients that require it. We do it with them, so that might be a full advice process. So we're almost doing it for them, but we do it alongside and this is a way that people can actually do and take action themselves and for some clients, that's the right thing. For some clients it's just because they're at the early stages of their accumulation phase and having the ability to be able to connect with the business and be able to seek advice, maybe as and when required, rather than paying a full ongoing service, I mean it's the stepping stone towards yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:So 2025, I can't believe we're in 2025, but we're into it. It's scary. So 2025 and beyond. Where are we going, roger, here at Vosda De Novo?
Speaker 2:I think at one level it's more of the same. We're very clear the direction of travel we would like to continue to acquire. I described earlier what we've done up in Newcastle as a regional hub. We've done the same in the Midlands. In the last 12 months We've made two acquisitions in the Midlands and that's given us a really strong foothold in that region. We've done the same in Glasgow. So we've gone north of the border, so that we've done two acquisitions in Glasgow and we are integrating those to become a regional hub to serve that community. And we would like to do the same in the Northwest. So we're actively seeking opportunities in the Northwest and the Southwest to become hubs that we can really establish a strong footprint and presence in those two regions.
Speaker 2:And I think we continue to grow organically. A lot of that will be driven by our ability to look after more clients. Ai will help enormously with that. Ai will help enormously with that. The efficiencies that will bring will drive a capability to look after more clients per advisor. The moment the average across the sector is probably around 140, 150. You know, we genuinely see that going to 300 over the next two or three years and that just brings in more revenue, more opportunity and more income for everybody, and clients will be better served on the back of it. So for us it's a really exciting phase, one of the most exciting that I've experienced.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. The energy's very, very high. You can tell it in your voice and just in your vision, and just how clear you are in articulating it, you can almost just see how much opportunity there actually is. It's funny you said about the Northwest huge amount of opportunity up there, about the northwest huge amount of opportunity up there, the midlands. You're going to find it a lot easier to hire around that location as well. One of the one things I did running a business for 16 years the midlands was one of our areas where we made the most placements. There's a lot of movement around that area, lots of good financial planners, very entrepreneurial individuals, so you might have a bit more success there in some of these other areas in the uk yeah, no sure.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, we'd like to to national presence.
Speaker 1:That's one of our ambitions of this particular period and we're getting close and those two hub opportunities would really complement the remainder of the business you know really neatly, right, it may feel really old now, but your business is hitting about the 20th year anniversary, right, so that's probably come around really quickly for you and you've obviously had some amazing achievements within that period of time. But what are you doing to celebrate?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, it's a. It's a. It's a big milestone, an important moment for us. Having said that, it is just another anniversary. You know. We are very clear about where we're going, what we want to achieve, and then for those sports people amongst us, it's you're only as good as your last game. So we've got to keep focusing on the future and keep delivering. But we'll have a big celebration later in the year. We bring the whole business together every year in a celebration day and it genuinely is all about recognising success, and a big part of that will be our 20th anniversary, which we'll recognise fully. Not till November, so we've got a bit of time to plan and prep. But we've been taking feedback from the business about what they'd like to do and there's lots of opportunities for us to be able to really recognize what is an important moment amazing.
Speaker 1:So, roger, you know it's an opportunity to talk directly to our listeners. What would you like to say to them about foster de novo and what the um, the environment, is like here? And what would like to say to them?
Speaker 2:well, I think I think I'd probably just refer back to how people-centric we are. I think it's easy for business to say that they've got a culture that's people-centric. I think the evidence for us is overwhelming. For us to grow at the rate we have grown, at the same time achieve IIP platinum, investors and people platinum which is a difficult benchmark to achieve for a steady state business, let alone one that's growing as quickly, because the connection it shows with our people, I think, is extraordinary. And at the same time, our NPS scores, our net promoter scores, have gone forward again. They're now above 80 for the first time.
Speaker 2:So I think it gives real evidence that what we do is working at every level. It's working for our staff because they score us so highly and have helped us achieve investors and people platinum. And our clients' feedback is as strong as it's ever been, perhaps stronger than it's ever been, which suggests that we are delivering at every level and you know that's always been our ambition. Ultimately, the numbers are great, but you've really got to look after your people. If you look after your people brilliantly, they'll look after your clients superbly and ultimately the numbers will follow. And that's very much what we're starting to see and and it's really exciting to witness what we believed was possible. But to start seeing that coming through is is is really exciting.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, listen, congratulations on a fantastic 2024. I think foster de nova has often, in my eyes, been um a very best kept secret. I think within financial planning, it's been a bit of a secret. How I see 2025 is a lot of people are going to be hearing more about the amazing work that you are doing so over here at financial planet life. Um, we wish you all the best, thank you, and if anybody wants to find out more about the culture, what it's like and the opportunities and the people behind this fantastic business, foster De Novo, make sure to listen to. Foster De Novo Talks, your very own podcast. Yeah, we're looking forward to that, excited. It's been a massive pleasure to be part of that journey with you.
Speaker 2:Lovely. Thanks. Very much, Sam Cheers Roger, Good to see you again.
