Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures, and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles, to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners, and back-office staff all have their own stories to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast serves as a platform for them to discuss their personal and professional journeys. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing, all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it will educate and spark a conversation within the industry on topics that may not be openly discussed. If you're considering a career as a financial adviser or are curious about learning more about this exciting sector, we encourage you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting as a trainer for a leading product provider in the UK, and he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources, such as this podcast, to educate those who are further seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Academy - start your career today!
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Self-Employed Chartered Financial Planner with £10M AUM, By 26 - Lawrence Bearman from Westminster Wealth Management
From Admin to Self-Employed Financial Planner with £10M AUM by 26!
In this episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast, Sam Oakes sits down with Lawrence Bearman, a 26-year-old Chartered Financial Planner at Westminster Wealth Management who's gone from admin assistant to managing £10 million in assets, all within his first year of self-employment.
We unpack:
- Why Lawrence chose to go self-employed with just £3M AUM
- How he tripled his assets in 12 months without cold calls or networking events
- The £10K personal investment he made to become a better communicator
- His laser-focused niche: high-earning lawyers - book a meeting here
- Why Westminster Wealth gave him the freedom to build his business his way
Lawrence’s story is packed with actionable insight for both aspiring advisers and experienced professionals ready to take control of their financial planning careers.
https://linktr.ee/wwmrecruitment
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Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or podcast production.
Want to appear on the Financial Planner Life podcast? drop Sam a message.
Let's kick things off first. Okay, Tell us how you got into the financial planning profession.
Speaker 2:Maybe overcomes your own belief or worry that people think you're too young, because then you can back up with. Actually, I'm chartered, so I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Where did that confidence come from? Why did you go from employed to self-employed so early on in your career?
Speaker 2:But I kind of said to myself worst case scenario I can just get an employed role again, like it's not the end of the world. Best case scenario is actually.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have a really, really good career. You came in with 3 million under management. You're now on 10 million in about a year. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I was always scared to niche because you think I'm closing off everyone else, but that was the best thing I could have done for my business.
Speaker 1:26 years old self-employed. Yeah, that's amazing. So we're going to get stuck into that in a minute because I think that's a fantastic, brave journey that a lot of people under 30 years old wouldn't do, and I think the stats would even suggest that.
Speaker 2:I always hear it when people reach out to me. It's I would like a financial plan. That's what it. And I actually say to people if you want the best investments, don't come to me, because that's not my value. I don't know what the best investment is going to be, but I can create you a financial plan that's going to help you retire earlier, upsize your house, take your kids to private school.
Speaker 1:Lawrence, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast. How are you Very good, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:It's great to have you here actually in London, in the 10 Club near Tower Bridge. Lovely little spot, a bit regal. We've obviously checked out the cigar cabinet, didn't we? Yeah, it was lovely.
Speaker 2:Which one did you like? The £700 one or the £500 one? Maybe the £20 one, maybe? Not quite making it yet as a financial planner, not just yet.
Speaker 1:No, I think it would be absolutely mental to be buying cigars at £700 a pop, ours at 700 pounds a pop. But uh, yeah, we, I shan't be doing that. So, lawrence, I'll tell you what. Let's kick things off first. Okay, tell us how you got into the financial planning profession.
Speaker 2:It's probably the same story that everyone says where they didn't mean to go into it, um, but they sort of ended up in it. So I've come out of university I knew I wanted to go into finance, so I sort of studied maths and economics was sort of the the standard route to go. I was looking into sort of investment banking and things like that, um, but I know I needed experience and it's one of those where you need experience to get the experience, almost um. But I came across an opportunity with, uh someone to do an internship for two weeks with a financial planner, not knowing what the industry was at all, and essentially those two weeks, uh fell in love with it.
Speaker 2:Um came out of university and he said actually I'm looking for someone to take on to sort of help me as I grow and I'd love to sort of bring you into that, and I thought it was an amazing opportunity. I was like, do you know what? Why not? But I just honestly didn't know anything about the industry. So it's that two weeks, that sort of brought me into it?
Speaker 1:And what, within that two weeks, was it that turned you onto the profession?
Speaker 2:I think there was like two things it's freedom and flexibility you have. First of all, you're not constrained to a nine to five job you can almost do. You can work your own hours. You can also work with who you want as well. I think that was quite important to me and also a big thing for me as well, is what you put in is what you get out as well. So it's an industry where you're not necessarily constrained to the corporate or whatever it's. Actually, if you put in some hard work, you can be really successful in.
Speaker 1:Okay, great stuff. So tell us a little bit about your career progression then. So where did you? What role did you come in at? Where are you now?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I started at a sort of a firm under Quilter and started sort of as administration so doing the sort of standard things of LOAs, sort of sending emails to clients, things like that sort of building my experience up. I then sort of progressed into a power planning role as well so started writing reports for this advisor who sort of guided me through the process. Overall, I think the big thing for me as well was being able to start sitting in on client meetings as well, so having that opportunity to sit in with the advisor and the client to see how that experience works, and then learning from that. And then I took half a leap where I did half power planning and then half advising and then finally took the full leap to advising full-time, but on an employed role, um at quarter and then since then sort of made the transition to self-employed at westminster um, where I've been sort of employed self-employed for the past year and a half now, wow, okay.
Speaker 1:So from administrator all the way now to being self-employed financial planner. If you don't mind me asking, I shouldn't ask it, but I'm going to ask how old are you? I'm 26. 26 years old, self-employed yeah, that's amazing. So we're going to get stuck into that in a minute, because I think that's a fantastic, brave journey that a lot of people under 30 years old wouldn't do, and I think the stats would even suggest that as well. All right, amazing.
Speaker 1:Let's just go back to that career journey, though, because I think there's plenty of people that are going to be in the admin power planning side. Okay, you talked about this hybrid role at one point as well, so just tell us a little bit about those roles. How important was it that you came in as an admin and a power planner, and how did you manage to get yourself into a position where you actually got one foot in power planning, one foot in financial advice, because there's a lot of power planners out there. There's a lot of people that would be looking for that as almost a trainee planner role, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think, first of all, doing the progression across those roles was really important in terms of where I am now, because then you understand the full process. You understand the full client journey, the full administrative tasks behind the scene, so you know exactly what needs to be done and how it works, whereas I see sometimes when advisors just become straight advisors they actually don't know what needs to happen behind the scenes, almost like how a case is put together, what you need from a LOA, things like that. So I thought that was really, really important. Then I was just really fortunate that my previous boss at the Quilter firm really supported me. He really believed in me and my abilities so he was quite generous in terms of giving me those opportunities. So he pushed me pretty straight straight away to do my exams and become a power planner straight away, just to obviously build my experience and knowledge from that.
Speaker 2:I then obviously making the leap to an advisor is quite big because at that point you've got a. Okay, where do my clients come from? How am I going to sort of generate revenue, things like that? So I had a. I was fortunate where he gave me some clients to sort of generate revenue, things like that. So I had a I was fortunate where he gave me some clients to sort of get me going. Yeah, um, but and at the same time that's why we did half and half, so I could still support myself and be a bit more stable, let's say, having the power planning role, but then obviously on my own two feet for the financial advice role.
Speaker 1:So did you push for that? Did you push? Push for the exposure and client experience, if you like to be able to get you towards financial planner. Was your goal in your head when you even got in that it was like I want to be a financial planner, yeah it was a no brainer for me, so I knew I wanted to be getting in front of clients as quick as possible.
Speaker 2:I wanted to understand how it worked. I didn't want to delay that sort of progression. I wanted to get it going as quick as possible. So it was very much me on the front foot trying to push for that and I think almost me pushing and showing how eager I was, encouraged it because they said, ok, actually he really wants to do it and he'll be driven enough to achieve those outcomes All right.
Speaker 1:So anybody listening, who might well be in an admin power planner role, wants to become a financial planner planner.
Speaker 2:your advice to them would be to you know, motivate your manager yeah, like ask questions, like be curious, um try, and I always say, even in our at westminster, try and get in client meetings where you can, because I think that's the best experience you can have, because it's so daunting to go from like behind the desk or behind the scenes sort of doing the admin work, to then being put in front of a client. If you can have that gap where you actually just see how people do it, um I think that's really important. Um, the other thing I would say as well, which really helped and probably just standing now is getting the exams done so for me. I was driven just to get chartered as quick as possible, so that that was one less thing to worry about, and so people respect me in the industry from the get-go you must have been one of the youngest with chartertered I think I probably was.
Speaker 2:yeah, I think I got it at age 24.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. Yeah, let me ask you that question then. So, as a younger guy, going through the process, you sped through the admin, gone through the power planning? I wouldn't say sped. You did your fair share. By the sounds of it, you did some good work in that you cut your teeth within that environment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, applications. What value and benefit has chartered given you? I think it maybe overcomes your own belief or worry that people think you're too young because then you can back up with actually I'm chartered, so I know exactly what I'm talking about. Albeit, I actually don't think clients ever think that or I haven't noticed that it's more your own within. So I think that sort of really helped in terms of having that to say here's my stamp, here's. I know exactly what I'm talking about from that perspective. So we're talking about imposter syndrome here.
Speaker 1:Exactly, that's the word, and did you feel that you had that as a younger advisor For?
Speaker 2:sure, like I mean, you see the average age of a financial advisor I don't know what it is now, but let three-year-old sort of stepping out. It's like, actually are people going to listen to me? Are people going to sort of listen to what I've got to say? Um, but actually what you, what you understand, is when you, as long as you know what you're talking about, people will believe in you and people want to come on board.
Speaker 1:Okay, excellent, so let's just give some people some reassurance around that. Okay, because there's not enough young people coming into the profession. Um, maybe they are thinking the same thing. You know, you close your eyes, you think of a financial advisor, middle-aged white guy. You know the classic. So you're telling us look, is it experience? Is it getting in front of as many people as you possibly can? Is it the qualifications or is it a combination of it all?
Speaker 2:It's a combination of it all. I do think exams will only get you so far, like I think it's almost just to have that there, but I think the most important thing is having that experience, so sitting in those meetings, seeing how. I think a really important thing is how you communicate with clients. A lot of people may sort of jump in with just like technical, technical products, products, products actually. It's more just about are you listening to the client, what they want and then actually putting together a plan that feels most appropriate to them?
Speaker 1:okay, that is a really important thing to say is that people can go double down and go too technical and think they need to know the ins and outs of absolutely every single fund investment strategy, everything right and discount the importance of human connection. Exactly when did you pick up the human connection side? Is it natural? Is it something you've had to work?
Speaker 2:on. It's definitely something to work on, because I was that person before that would be made more technical thinking that's how I'd get a client on board is, if I overwhelm them with information, I'll come on board, which is completely wrong. Um, so I set out on my own. I did a quite expensive communications course. Um, actually it was about a sort of year long where you really sort of understand okay, what does the person ask for, the client asking for, how do you articulate that in the right way, just to make sure that they're happy, you're happy, things like that. So that probably tying in with, obviously, becoming self-employed, that tied in with me sort of going to the next step in my career because all of a sudden I started seeing the conversations I was having with clients were so much better, so much more engaging, and a lot more people were coming on board because of that.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about this communications course. You said it was quite expensive. One thing that I always see with people that are super successful is they do invest in themselves, right, and they pay for these courses. Um, a lot of us kind of think, oh, I don't want to pay for that because I haven't got the money yet. And big expensive early on in your career feels like a bit of a risk. So let's just talk about that. What communications course was it and what did it do to transform the way that you are approaching, uh, client meetings and winning new client business?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it was a course called um. I think it was seventh level uh, basically just again like sort of more communication, just making sure you're saying the right things. It cost uh 10 grand did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, was that face to face online that?
Speaker 2:was all online actually as well, but you had a lot of exposure, you had one-to-ones, things like that as well. And I think the most important thing as well is you had role plays. Yeah, so you really so, before you're having those conversations with clients, you're role playing with other people to make sure that the conversations come across um in the right way. Um. So yeah, for me that was a a big thing to do and it definitely paid off um from that perspective, just because the conversation I'm having now is so much, much better how did you feel just exchanging that 10 000?
Speaker 2:yeah, that was, that was very tough, yeah but I knew it's one of those where I want to invest in myself. Now, yeah, like it's all about making sure you can be the best person, best advisor, you can be best person, you can best quality to your clients Um, obviously, building my own brand, things like that. I want to make sure I'm investing myself in the right way. So that was almost sort of step one, and since then, every investment I've done in myself, I've never really looked back.
Speaker 1:Really good something. Now, I struggled a little bit with that. Yeah, I do struggle a little bit with letting go. Um, even when it comes to, like employing people or having people around me to do the tasks that I don't want to do, yeah, there's this weirdness that comes over me almost like an anxiety, and I can't let go, even though I know if I let go, it's going to make my life a million times better. Yeah, part of that is the financial. It's stupid because I can afford it, but there is this like little demon in my head. He's saying like oh no, don't do that, just hold on to it. Or the thought of then having to tell somebody what I want them to do is yeah. Or to find that person becomes almost like a stressor to me. 100. So you've experienced that. You let go, you invested that money and you got a return on investment yeah, I mean it wasn't easy, but yeah, since then haven't looked back.
Speaker 2:So do I two years on or whatever it was now. I've almost forgot about it now yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:So you were working from an admin to power planner into a hybrid role, into an employed financial planner. Now the big leap was self-employment. Right now. You left quilter, you went and joined westminster wealth yeah. So tell us a little bit about that leap. Where did that confidence come from? Why did you go from employed to self-employed so early on in your career?
Speaker 2:I just got to the point where I I wanted to be able to grow in the way and I think the best way to do that was self-employed.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to be constrained in any way. There was other factors, like I wanted to make sure that I own the relationship with my clients and things like that, just because of the trajectory I wanted to go on. So I got to a point where I was just sort of saying, actually, maybe I should look at these options. So I reached out to a recruiter and sort of saying, actually maybe I should look at these options. So I reached out to recruiter and sort of guided me through all the options and I kind of said to them self-employed is only the only route I really want to go down. I'm happy to take that risk. I've got enough clients that hopefully will come with me to sort of keep me afloat and then basically build from that. So it was very daunting to do, for sure, um, but I kind of said to myself worst case scenario I can just get an employed role again, like it's not the end of the world. Um, but best case scenario is actually I'm gonna have a really really good career.
Speaker 1:I think people would respect the fact that, nearly on your career as well, that you actually took a chance on yourself. I mean you're a hot commodity at the moment. Uh, you're a young financial planner chances you know you're. You're certainly going to be able to walk into another job if everything fails. So anybody listening to this right now who doesn't see that they have a value right now, you do. There's an aging population of advisors, distinct lack of young advisors. You definitely have the opportunity to take some risks and take some chances. I'm not saying don't go into a business and be employed for a bit, because it's a fantastic place to cut your teeth and to pick up some excellent skills and some confidence. Some confidence as well, and like working with others on an employed basis is really, really powerful. What are some of the things you learned very early on about being self-employed? Is there anything that kind of you thought, oh no, that was bad.
Speaker 2:Or anything was like wow, that was good uh, obviously, not having an income consistently every month is the the big one um, but I was happy to take that sort of by my teeth with that um. I think the hardest part was transitioning um like the process wise um, at quilter obviously it's very sort of confined, whereas at westminster it's more. Actually, whatever process you might want to do, you you can do so. There's a lot more freedom, yeah, and with that it helped me sort of say okay, actually, how do I want to do my process, what experience do I want my clients to go through, and really sort of fine-tuning that. Now, so, a year and a half on, I feel like I've got it very fine-tuned of actually sort of the stages we go through, your clients, the experience they have, things like that. But it was definitely a massive challenge before where actually you're trying to figure out what is the best process, what, what's the best way I I want to work with my clients.
Speaker 1:Brilliant, so you're at westminster wealth. Obviously they're investing in you. By the sounds of things, it seems to be like an ecosystem that's working because you're still there. Self-employment is tough and I do think you surround yourself when you are self-employed in what I like to coin as an intrapreneurial environment, right? Do you feel like Westminster Wealth is an intrapreneurial environment?
Speaker 2:For me. That was one of the main reasons that drew me to them. So there was two folds to Westminster from this perspective. First of all, they have probably some of the, in my opinion, the best advisors in the country. They're some of the top achieving advisors working with some really good clients, and the fact that I can sit next to them at a desk and really just sort of listen to their conversations or actually they're all willing to take the time and have conversations was really really powerful, because you can go self-employed, but you go self-employed on your own. You've got no one to ask questions. You've got no one to bounce off of.
Speaker 2:Especially for myself young, I don't want to assume like I know everything. I want to be able to bounce things um off from that perspective. So that was a big thing for me. The other side of it is uh, yes, westminster are investing in young talent as well, so we've got a sort of growing pool of young advisors coming into the firm now. So I was probably one of the the first few ones, but now we've got a good group who sort of meet up quite often. So actually went for lunch last week, um, and just sort of discuss what's going on what's working for each other. Building off of that, so we've got probably about eight advisors under 30, who, in my opinion, are some of again the top advisors that will be coming into the future.
Speaker 1:I love that yeah, is it a lot of high achievement mindset in there as well? Are you surrounding yourself with people you know they say surround yourself with winners and you're going to win. Does it feel like that?
Speaker 2:100. I think westminster they make it very clear in the um recruitment process is they're quite strict on who they bring in, because westminster are very much of the opinion that, like, we're not going to give you leads, we're not going to sort of support you. In that sense you've got to have a game plan of saying, actually, this is how you achieve it and westminster can then support that as such. But it's not sort of going to be a free, free meal from westminster. So they're very strict at who they let in, yeah, which in turn means that who are letting are normally very good quality and normally sort of get going straight away.
Speaker 1:What I love about that, though, is this due diligence on the part of Westminster Wealth. They're not just trying to stack it high and sell it cheap. They're not trying to sell the dream to somebody. They're actually doing the due diligence, in a way, for you as a person, so you're not wasting your time, because going self-employed super-duper stressful and anxiety inducing. You know it's a completely different world to being employed. So, um, just tell us about some of the things they did with you, then. What did they help you build a business plan? Did they question your business plan? What were the things that they did that made you reassured that, actually, you were making the right decision? I hope they tried to put you off no, that that's, that's almost what I say.
Speaker 2:They do is they try and put you off because, like, they only want the people that are so driven Because, realistically, as a self-employed, you need to have a game plan. You need to be driven. It's not going to be easy. So one of the first things we did was we have a business plan. You sit down with two of the partners and you say here's my business plan, what do we need to adjust? How does it look? Things like that, which was the main thing. So I came in from my angle this is who I'm looking to work with, this is how it works, and building off of that, the other thing they do is making sure that, almost building off the coaching that I did with that sort of communications coach, they have partners that help you articulate things the right way with clients as well, making sure that you sort of are saying the right things.
Speaker 2:Um, making sure that the westminster mindset, which I think, which I think is the new mindset for financial advisors I we're not here to um say, oh, this is the best investment you need to go with this it's. We're here to create a financial plan for you to achieve your goals in the long run. So it's all about the long strong sale, as they call it. We're here to help you, for the next 40 years, achieve your goals rather than try and find your next best investment, because who knows what's like?
Speaker 1:do you feel like your age of where you are in life right now fits into that long strong philosophy?
Speaker 2:100, 100 like I've got. My time frame is I'm 20 26 right now. Let's say I retire at age 60. I don't know what it'll be. I want to be with my clients for the next what? 30, 40 years, essentially. So it's working with them from all those stages so that we have a really good relationship and we grow together.
Speaker 1:I love that and we'll get into that in a minute in respect to the kind of the niche that you went down. But as a 26-year-old financial planner, are you working with people your age or are you working with people that are older? Has it, has it, you know, drawn you towards people in early stages of their career, or are you able to sit down with somebody who might be 45, 50 years old?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I before for Westminster I was definitely working with sort of whoever. I've more sort of niched it down with kind of who who I get along with best and also who I want to grow with essentially. So I've more sort of niched it down with kind of who I get along with best and also who I want to grow with essentially. So I've kind of niched it down to people in their sort of 30s to up to 45, let's say on a sort of very good trajectory and sort of we essentially grow together. It's kind of where I've sort of been Not saying I wouldn't work with older people, but I just naturally seem to get along better with people sort of maybe closer to my age.
Speaker 1:As such, I love it is that also kind of because you are surrounding yourself with young high achievers, do you think? Do you think like that kind of? If you're working with young high achievers that are around you, you're going to attract young high achievers as well exactly, and then also you know what the problems they have as well.
Speaker 2:So you sort of see it firsthand and you say, actually I kind of know where you're coming from, um, already, because you're one of those people?
Speaker 1:right, that's the plan. Well, I was chatting to a couple ladies yesterday, actually at st james's place, and they, they, um, they, they make most of their business at the school gate, right, right, because they're mums. Yeah, yeah, right, and that's what they do, yeah, so it gets to school day, they talk to other mums. They've got the mummy group on facebook and that kind of hyper local. Um, lean into yourself. What are your situations, what are your problems, what are you experiencing your life and what are others around you doing? And where are they based? They're probably right on your doorstep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're right next to you so that's their kind of hyper local niche and they look at themselves and they look at others and they ask are you experiencing the same problems and that's helped them develop clients that are similar to them? I think there's this idea a lot of the time, isn't it especially when you look at linkedin social media, that we similar to them? I think there's this idea a lot of the time, isn't it? Especially when you look at LinkedIn social media, that we have to have thousands and millions of people looking at us for us to be able to develop relationships and to show our worth and our proof. We'll get into the whole social proof element and how that does benefit you and your marketing and your client generation, but I don't think it needs to be. I think we can become hyper-local, hyper-aware of ourselves and then those around us and how can I connect with them?
Speaker 2:because I've got the same problems that they have. Yeah, 100, 100, um. I think that ties in basically, yeah, like niching down essentially. So you say actually um, I know these people, I know these problems, so I'm going to niche towards them because they're going to resonate with me have you found that westminster wealth?
Speaker 1:have um created an ecosystem for financial planners that allow you to connect with each other because you're all in the same journey? You talked about a cohort of really high achieving financial planners young financial planners. Has that created that ecosystem?
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's just sort of created that competitiveness. It has created that sort of encouragement. We're all sort of on the same trajectory. It's sort of really sort of supporting each other. And what I love is we're all doing our own different things. So when we were actually sat at dinner, uh, last week, one guy's doing linkedin sort of messaging, I'm doing linkedin posts, another one's doing the unbiased route, another one's doing the networking group, like everyone's got their own sort of things. We're all sort of taking bits from each other and seeing what works and what doesn't. It's just really sort of good and encouraging. Um, and that's what I think. That's why westminster are targeting that next younger generation, because we've already got a good cohort. So it's just sort of adding to that.
Speaker 1:Now how do you feel about? Um? You know there's a generation of uh people that like to work from home. Is this more office based? Is it a mixture? How do you operate? How do you work and what works best for you and your pals and your?
Speaker 2:colleagues. I think it's a bit of both, because I'm 100 more productive at home, okay, just because you don't have the, the conversations. But at the same time I get bored and you want a bit of change when you're at home. So I try and balance a bit of both. So I'll say normally, say, two days in the office, three days at home. Um, when you're in the office it's sort of uh, not networking, but talking with your colleagues, bouncing off ideas, sort of building on that, and then when you go back home it's sort of okay getting your head down, having those client meetings, um, doing all the administration, things like that. So I think it's finding the balance between the two of them. I'm not of the mindset that I need to be in the office every day because I just don't think I'd be as productive as working from home. But I'm also not work from every day at home because I there's almost no point.
Speaker 1:I might as well just be self-employed at that point yeah there's a benefit to being able to go into again this ecosystem, this community of people where you can learn from. Yeah, it's like emotionally plugging in, educationally plugging in, it's social plugging in, yeah. Yeah, you need it as a human being and I think that's where, when you look at self-employment and you're working out your back bedroom, you could be working for a network, like you say, or even going directly authorized. One of the massive value ads of being part of a business such as westminster wealth is you are plugging into some experts and you can come in and you can go out, but it's nice to know that the culture isn't you've got to be in the office 100 because I'm with you man, I love that ability to to work from home. But when I need that social recharge, when I need to connect with people, I want to go into the office.
Speaker 1:Most of the best work that I do is when I'm not around other people because I get distracted. I get really distracted easily, right, and I need to almost kind of like, have my, my flow and my journey and I can sit at the desk when I want. I can go for a run when I want. I need that flexibility. So I think flexible working. For me is just the way it should be 100, but you know, for everybody it's different. But ecosystems allow and create. If they're not rigid, then you're only going to attract people who work the best way that they can but also have the flexibility and the freedom to try those different things right.
Speaker 1:That's the key thing try. And I think now, at the stage of your working life as well, I wish I had the opportunity to try the working from home more, because when I was younger, you know it was like what are you doing working at home? You're obviously just watching, like this Morning, or going out on the piss or something like that. You know, love it. Okay, so we talked about niching. We talked about that. Now you yourself have niched down, haven't you? Yes, right, tell us about the niche that you're working in and why.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I've niched with working with sort of top earning lawyers at US and Magic Circle firms. It kind of spawned from, first of all, my girlfriend. She's a lawyer herself so I've seen day to day exactly the problem she's going through, really understand what's going on and also the journey they go on. So I understand start as associates, work up to senior associate, maybe counsel, and then employed partner, equity partner. So I really understand the journey now and the problems they're going through. Also, they're at a stage where they're doing very well in their careers but they just don't have a lot of time. So they actually need someone to come in and say what do I need to do with my finances? I've got a lot of money here, but what do I actually do with it? So I just found that there was that gap in that market and I well, actually with the experience I've got from my girlfriend, I sort of really understand that situation.
Speaker 1:So what are some of the challenges? Let's go down this. Hopefully some legal professionals might be listening to this. They're aware of who you are. What are some of the challenges that they are facing within their own careers?
Speaker 2:and their journey In careers or finances Both I mean obviously career side. It's because I see it firsthand it's the hours that they have to work. It's just ridiculous. So you're working, you'll start work maybe at nine o'clock, but you might finish work at 12 o'clock that best case scenario. So it's definitely sort of the drain. And you do see a lot of lawyers get to a stage where actually they just can't do it anymore and they want to become partner. And that was like yes, I want to go partner, I'll do anything for that. So almost like then fitting that into the financial plan is actually well, whichever person you are or if you don't know yet, we can plan for either side of it. So actually give them a clear plan of actually, if you wanted to keep going, this is how it would look as well and what are some of the financial blind spots that they might have in their lives right now?
Speaker 2:so obviously, just because they are time poor, normally just things haven't been looked at at all. So the number one thing I always see is they've got too much money in cash. So what happens is they've got their paycheck coming in, they just don't have time to do anything with it. They might do a cash iser hearing there, rest of it's just in a bank account and actually, as we kind of know, money's in the bank account not doing much. They need to get it working harder, especially with inflation where it's been. So number one thing is always getting their cash to work a bit harder. I'd say the other thing as well is the earnings trajectory they'll go on. Obviously, they're going to be paying a lot of tax. So actually being a bit smart about how you actually can plan for that, especially things like if you know what trajectory you're going to go on. So if you know you're going to start earning more than 360,000 in the future, pension allowance is going to be tapered. So planning ahead of that and using things like carry forward allowance.
Speaker 1:So there's lots of things from a tax efficiency point of view as well as just getting your money to work harder putting that all together to sort of create on becoming a lawyer, I just think they walk straight into a high earning job. What does it look like then? Because I assume, at the age you're at, you're talking to people that might well be coming fresh out of university, straight into their first lawyer position or legal position. What does the actual journey look like? When do they start ramping up their earnings, for example In?
Speaker 2:fairness, it's pretty ramped up from the start if they work at US or Magic Circle firms. So it's basically defined on how many years of post-qualified experience they have. So normally a first year will come in at 200 grand straight away and then, building off that, they normally sort of go up in stages and then by the time they're five years they're probably on 350 to 400 grand. So I'm currently working with, I kind of say on my LinkedIn. I typically work with people from that five years onwards, essentially so as they sort of more experienced lawyers and then they're looking towards going partner. That's typically where I sort of come in and help. But I still obviously have conversations with sort of the newer lawyers to sort of make sure they're on the right journey as well.
Speaker 1:And what can you do to so love it? What can you do to help those younger ones that are coming through, and what are you doing to kind of almost prepare them to be your clients of the future?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I think it's just like having the right sort of habits first of all, like the bit what I keep saying, the biggest thing but another thing I see with lawyers is lifestyle inflation. Like you're earning good money all of a sudden but you just then spend it all. So just having really good habits of saying, actually, am I earning good income, I'm going to put this money aside, um, to start towards it, because I always see that they're earning good money but they don't really have anything for show for it. So it's actually turning that high income into actually lasting wealth. So it's setting those habits early, saying actually you're going to save this amount per month and then in five years time you're going to have a nice pool of cash or investments, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:So actually say you've done something, rather than just sort of keep spending on luxury things I think the uh lifestyle creep is real, right, like I'm in dubai at the moment and a lot of people go out there earn some good money. Now I know people are earning really, really good money, yeah, but they'll tell you they haven't got any money, yeah. And then you look at their bank balance or they look at what they're spending their money on and it's like well, did you really need to spend 500 quid at the beach club on saturday and another 500 on sunday? So I think lifestyle creep is really difficult when you start earning good money and, before you know it, you've gotten so used to it and you're thinking like I'm stressing about money. Why am I stressing about money?
Speaker 1:I've been there myself like it's easy, right, it's easy to do. So. That's a real educational piece and I think yeah, I think what I think what that can also cause in in some people is lot of insecurity and anxiety and worry and internal judgment and shame. Perhaps. And I think maybe, like do you often make people feel at ease sometimes when they come to you and maybe they feel a bit uncomfortable about their finances?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they almost feel embarrassed that they've been earning such good money but they have nothing to show for it. It's like actually they're embarrassed that they haven't saved money away. But I actually say, well, actually it's good we're having this conversation now, rather than 10 years time, where you'd probably be even more embarrassed. So actually you're on track. And then obviously it then goes back to the financial plan saying, actually, well, if you do what I tell you to do, it doesn't matter what you haven't done before.
Speaker 1:We can then set the right habits now and get you back on the right track.
Speaker 2:Advice they're coming to you for financial plans yeah, like I always hear it when people reach out to me, it's I would like a financial plan that's what that's, what it's not.
Speaker 2:I want the best investments and I actually say to people if you want the best investments, don't come to me, because that's not my value. I don't know what the best investment is going to be, but I can create your financial plan that's going to help you retire earlier, upsize your house, take your kids to private school, things like that right, some of these legal professionals are probably listening right now, right, because you're linking with so many of them.
Speaker 1:Explain to them why the financial plan is so important to them and how it can help them.
Speaker 2:I think the and you kind of mentioned it there it's like it's just creating that peace of mind. It's saying, okay, I'm earning good money, but how do I need to distribute it to achieve all the goals? So when I have conversations with lawyers, we always talk about what goals they want to achieve. So big thing is when do you want to leave big law? Are you going to become partner?
Speaker 2:So a lot of people say I probably want to retire by age 50. That's quite a hard task to do. So having a clear plan to say if you save this amount of money, you will be financially free so you can decide whether you want to step away from big law or not, that gives that peace of mind and comfort. And then there's other things like actually I'm earning good money, I want to support my children. So actually taking them to private school, taking them to university, having a plan, having a pot of money that's being saved for that, so it's just actually creating that comfort and peace of mind that they will be able to achieve all those goals, yeah, so so they're happy in the future.
Speaker 1:Do you use any kind of technology, any cash flow forecasting tools, to be able to um?
Speaker 2:illustrate this. Yeah, so, and it's a game changer. We use voyant. Yeah, and it's just. It's just ridiculous. You're plugging all the goals and objectives, then you plug in all the inputs, so income, assets, outgoings, things like that. You can just say actually, if we do this, you will be on track to achieve these outcomes. And what we also do is to give a buffer. We undershoot things. So we undershoot things like growth rates to make sure that they are on track even in the worst case scenario and how interactive is that?
Speaker 1:can they change it? Can they add things to it, remove things to it, as and when they please?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we can have sessions whenever and we'd go through it. So we'll almost do scenarios. We'll say, actually if you were to leave big law in 10 years time, how would that look if you were to leave in 20 years, five years, whatever it may be? We can model out different scenarios, other things like private school if you were to take your kids to private school from age four versus if you were to take them to private school from age 13. Those various things we can model out so they can have a clear idea of actually what's going on. I think also it helps them make a decision on what they're going to do. Sometimes we'll model out if they buy the £2 million house versus the £1.5 million house to see what the impact is.
Speaker 1:Okay If you were speaking to a lawyer five years away.
Speaker 2:It's a good question. I'll caveat it would depend on their goals. First of all, let's just say that the only thing on their mind is now become a partner and going from there. I think, first of all, it's making sure that, again, you're not spending too much money, you're saving, so actually allocating that money, doing your smart things like doing your pensions, doing your ISAs.
Speaker 2:One thing as well is what I tend to see is that when there's someone working towards being a partner of a law firm, their partner uh, like they're married or whatever um tends to be the person maybe not working or working a less vigorous job, so it's being smart with their allowances as well. So actually saying, okay, I've got this money, but we can start allocating it to their side of things I their pensions, their ices, whatever else. Um, just so the money's being a bit smarter of how it's growing um, and then I'd say, what else? So it's it's planning for becoming partner, so it's being aware of how your income might jump um and what's going to be impacts there, and also things like it depend on on the different firms, but whether they need to provide a lump sum um to become equity partner they might have to buy in, so it's actually preparing for that that's an interesting one, yeah, factoring in the preparation of having the money to be able to buy in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very, very interesting. It depends. Sometimes it can be alone, Sometimes it can be upfront, so it's just planning for all scenarios, basically.
Speaker 1:Understanding what the options are available as well, because if you don't know, it just eats away at your brain. Yeah, exactly, yeah, I totally get that Fantastic.
Speaker 2:Do you get a lot of feedback from my linkedin and they always say that actually your posts are like I really resonate with um, which is actually saying, and then obviously the whole idea is that the post then should link directly to the process. So then they actually say, yeah, the process tied in exactly what you said in your post and I really feel like much more confident. So I have had really good feedback. Obviously we use things like vouch for where you get survey back from them and there's normally good feedback there. And what I try and do as well is I try and go with like a breakfast with my clients as well just to get some good feedback and also just to see is there any way I can improve as well, because I just want to make sure I offer the best service possible.
Speaker 1:You told me that you came in with $3 million under management. You're now on $10 million in about a year. Yeah, that's amazing. So tell us a little bit about what niching down has done for you in respect of developing business. But, most importantly, there's a lot of people out there struggling with how to win business. Is there anything that you do or have done, or you feel that you can educate our listeners right now into ways that they can go out and actually generate clients themselves, and maybe some of these legal professionals as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I was always scared to niche because you think, oh, I'm closing off everyone else, but that was the best thing I could have done, for my business is actually saying these are solely the people I work with, because when you sell to everyone, you almost sell to or provide service to everyone. You provide a service to no one, whereas actually, when you're specific, people really resonate with that. So that's been a game changer for my business. Anyways, in terms of how I actually went from three to ten million, it's just been linkedin. That's fundamentally got me there.
Speaker 2:So it's been consistent day in, day out in terms of posting really relevant um content, connecting with the right people, understanding their problems and having the right conversations from the get-go. What I will say is that it didn't just happen overnight. I've been posting for near enough one and a half to two years now on linkedin and probably have only seen the real benefits a year ago. So it just takes time, as you, as you know. Yeah, being consistent, doing the right thing, improving every day and starting to get somewhere, and that's kind of what happened for me so someone might be thinking about doing that right now and they want to get to the level that you've got to.
Speaker 1:What can we do to help speed them up? What are some of the mistakes and the problems or the misconceptions that you had, that you had to flip, change your trajectory to move into an area that all of a sudden, hyper focused you on?
Speaker 2:the right type of client or the right things to do I think for me it's having just the confidence and overcoming that first fear of posting. Right, you, you're sort of so worried about what people are going to say, what people are going to think, and you've just overcome that um. So for me I was really worried about posting, especially putting my face like out there, putting cringe videos out there, whatever you want to call it, yeah, um, but you've just got to overcome that because people, actually people that are your friends, will support you and they'll encourage it fundamentally. So for me it was just actually overcoming that um, first hurdle of actually doing it, um, and then it's just. I don't think there's a way you can shortcut it fundamentally because I think it's just consistency. I think the best thing you can do is really understand the problems with your niche and really drive home to that.
Speaker 2:And again, probably back to the first conversation we had of not talking products, talking problems and specific like what they want out of it. Yeah, um, really sort of today's pain points, really talking to those pain points. I think that's probably the key thing. I don't mean there's a. If I was to look back, maybe I could have been better at posting, like as in, like better quality and more consistent, but I don't think I would have. I think I might have been taking six months rather than a year, um, but you still just going to be consistent every day with it to get the same sort of outcomes.
Speaker 1:So when we say consistent, are you posting every single day?
Speaker 2:so I was. I started off doing three times a week because I wanted to do something that I could sustain. I've now sort of ramped it up to sort of four or five times a week and that's where I've started seeing the real progress. If I could do it more, I would, but I just don't have the time to do so. I think obviously ai's come in and helped in terms of getting the content, getting ideas for the content and things like that. That's made it much easier. So I think this day and age it's much, much easier to do a decent amount of content and good quality, rather than sort of a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:Just got to be so careful with AI because I see so many people posting and I find like, oh my God, like that is written by AI and it's the giveaway dashes, it's the dashes. And it's written by ai and it's the giveaway dashes. That it's the dashes. You know, seasoned financial advisor, and all these typical words I always say to my chat gpt. It's like you are a chat gpt investigator with 10 years experience. Right, your job is to make sure that this post categorically does not look like it's been written by gptpt. And I want I'm always like, tell it in a sam oak storytelling style, in this approach, and if I like a certain type of person's personality, I'll make sure that you know sam harris, for example, would be the personality type and I want well-being running through it. So I get quite kind of granular with how I want it to actually be and then keep it in a project as well.
Speaker 1:You use projects. I've, as in, I've created my own chat GPT, if that's what you mean. So you've got your own chat GPT, but then you can actually build out projects on chat GPT as well. So as you start to put everything into your project you can go back to. So it's like, I don't know, like social post project and within that you might have subcategories, but every time you put the same thing into that project it's always kind of learning off the same project and you can keep things all in one place, um, so that becomes really handy.
Speaker 1:I use that also with presentations. So if I built a presentation and I go in and present something and the ceo loved it, then I'll say right, that worked. This is the bit he didn't like on it. So I'll ask for feedback and say and say next time you build me this presentation, just make sure that you take this feedback into consideration yeah, so you kind of keep everything in one place, otherwise you go crazy and just type things in all the time.
Speaker 1:If you look at my god, there's lists and lists and lists of things in my chat gpt.
Speaker 2:Have you done um, because now chat gpt has memory? Yeah, have you done the question where it says like find my five blind spots from? Uh, basically time in chat gpt, find my five blind spots and what it gives out is unbelievable?
Speaker 1:yeah, like, the analysis of yourself as well as insane.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, man, I'm doing this thing at the moment.
Speaker 1:I did a 12-step process to give up alcohol years ago, right, and I moved away from doing a 12 step process and it was fundamentally like a design for living and it it was amazing, like you know made me really, really happy because I focused on higher frequency stuff like forgiveness and working on fears and resentments, and kindness and compassion just all this stuff that makes you feel good, right, yeah, gratitude and everything, and I moved away from it. Anyway, I went back into chat gpt recently because I was going a bit off track and I realized like I was focusing my attention on things that don't add value to my life, sure, and I was thinking, oh, maybe that's why I'm unhappy, or a little bit, you know, a little bit unhappy. So, anyway, long story short, went into chat gpt. I understand the fundamentals of the 12 steps, so I taught my chat gpt to be a 12-step sponsor and then I started putting all my resentments and all my fears in it and, as I'm going through, I'm teaching it to challenge me on my thinking.
Speaker 1:So, as I'm doing it and I'm talking into it instead, of yeah, yeah so now it's building this whole list of all like these kind of fears and resentments and things that I hold and harms that I might have caused myself or others, and what I'm going to do at the end of that is ask for patterns. So have you identified patterns? Yeah, and then why? I'm also asking for it? Because I love CBT. Asking it for then come back to me with ways that, from a cognitive behavioral therapy perspective, that it can kind of get me out of specific sticky situations or patterns that I've experienced.
Speaker 1:That's really cool, blows my mind. Yeah, it's crazy's so good. And then you think to yourself is that going to work the same way? But it did. It's like it's freed things up, like I feel like rocks coming out my backpack and I feel a lot lighter. It's amazing. So I think like then you take that, put it into a project and then say this right content for me that reflects how I am. Yeah, yeah, and I and that's the way we've got to kind of use it's that personalization 100, excellent stuff. So three to ten million.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, so linkedin is the thing that got you there, helped you get there. Yeah, yeah, okay, I like that. Anything around is that and that's purely organic. Yes, yeah, so, so any paid stuff I've done any paid advertising?
Speaker 2:no no, I've kind of the only thing I pay for a sales navigator so you can sort of specifically target who you want to to go for. But I've gone down the route, I've done the unbiased, I've done the other paid leads, things like that but what I've noticed is the best way to get new clients is build a personal brand, have people resonate with you and they reach out to you. Because actually what I wanted to avoid in this industry is I didn't want to have to cold call. I said I do not want to cold call, I want people to reach out to me rather than I have to reach out to them. And I was like how do I do that? And it fundamentally, as we kind of all know, it's building a personal brand these days. So that's just kind of what's happened. And then also from that, because you're posting content, thousands of people see in it rather than you calling one person. It's just like a different numbers game Mate, social proof yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1:And again, like if you're picking the right people that you're connecting with not financial advisors, for example, the amount of financial advisors that I know that just connect with financial advisors on LinkedIn and then wonder why they're not actually winning any clients and you're taking the best approach, which is niching. Niching's worked for me. Look, I niche down into financial financial planning profession. It's worked. An absolute treat for me. You become a key person of influence within that space and daniel priestly book key person of influence is massively like. It's a blueprint for how to dominate within a niche right that might not have a standout person who is a financial advisor, right, and how do you become that person?
Speaker 1:well, you connect with the niche and then you become that key person of influence, then, you start to surround yourself with other key people of influence and start to build referral networks. It's not rocket science and that book is fantastic. For anyone who's listening, he wants to understand how to become that key person of influence within a specific niche. So what about you and your future then? So, 26 years old, chartered, I mean honestly, mate, I'm really super duper impressed, and I'm talking to you and the second time well, third time, I think I've had a good conversation with you, and the more I talk to you, the more impressed I am with how you come across. I can only see good things for you in your future, mate, anyway. But what? What does it look like to you? So you, I love the fact you're brave, you've been going self-employed, but where does that go? What's next for you? What is?
Speaker 2:next, for it's a good question actually, and I don't know. I do like the idea of just keep growing the personal brand and, I think, staying within the niche, so maybe just keep growing within that niche. So I'm at the stage now where I'm growing in the right way and it's whether I now start bringing on people to help me grow even further. So that's something I'm definitely looking at and just taking on.
Speaker 2:One big thing for me is I like work-life balance right. So I'm not here to say that I want to be the the biggest financial advisor ever with the biggest law clients ever. I just want to be working with some people, really really nice people that I'm going to grow with. Like, what's really important for me is who I work with. Yeah, because you're working with them day in, day out, so you want to enjoy that. Um. So for me, I think it's if I say, in five years time I'd want to be obviously grown in the right way only work with the people that I enjoy working with and having a really really nice work-life balance, just still enjoying other things. So I like to do a lot of sport, um, I like to do a lot of traveling.
Speaker 1:So I think, again, finding that balance fundamentally do you think you can incorporate that into the work arena as well and find that balance? Do you think, like your sport, your connection, the work-life balance, travel, are these all things that you can do within financial planning? Does that seem realistic to you?
Speaker 2:100%. Again, you've got to be make sure that everything's fine, fine-tuned, like you want to make sure, because the the most time consuming is things like suitability reports and the admin and the things that the clients don't actually sort of necessarily care about that much. That's the main time consuming. So I think, especially with the idea of ai coming in and things like that, I definitely see it as an a massive opportunity. Um, but again, obviously with the main focus that clients are the first point of call for me, but the fact that I will have that balance. I think it's 100 achievable in this industry and that's why I was drawn to it in the first place.
Speaker 1:Love it saturn I've just had in. Oh yeah, rohi, like if you guys aren't working with saturn. I know hoxton wealth, you've been working with them, you know, and I've known, I've known rohi since he, since he started. I mean the time, uh, they are saving. Yeah, financial planners, um, is is insane, and I think you're coming in at such an exciting time where it's only going to free you up to be able to live the life that you want to live and work in the way that you want to do, which is a deeper, deeper, more meaningful connection with the clients that you serve, and to be able to give you that freedom and space to be able to live the life that you want to live. So I think that's really, really important. You raise that ai is a big deal and I think that's another exciting opportunity for anybody that's coming into the profession. That is going to make you more human. Um, without a shadow of a doubt.
Speaker 1:It's not going to take your job. It's going to allow you to be better at building deeper, meaningful connections, and I love the. That's what I love about ai. You know, I haven't got this fear of like robots taking over the world. I've got it's like I don't know this idea that we're all going to be more connected and enjoying things like this more face-to-face contact and events and like being more there for each other.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's a really beautiful thing. So anybody listening to this right now financial planner, you know they're inspired by your journey. What would be the biggest piece of advice that you would give them right now?
Speaker 2:I think it's just like get your exams done. That's like a no brainer, just be curious. So I'd say I do. Get people reach out to me that are in the industry just want some like advice. So I'd say, reach out to me or other people in the profession just for some guidance. To say, actually, this is where I'm at right now. What's the best route for me next, yeah, speak to people that are already successful, so way ahead of me, doing the right things, and then find what's going to be right for you in terms of employed or self-employed route. Self-employed route obviously you've got to be more the entrepreneurial mindset and be happy to take those risks. But for me personally, I think taking that leap was the best thing I've ever done. So don't be afraid to take those leaps. If you're about it, it's probably the right thing.
Speaker 1:you probably should be doing it basically if someone's interested in westminster wealth, what can they do? Can they reach out?
Speaker 2:to you? Yeah, feel free to reach out to me and I can pass them in the right direction. Um, yeah, because we're definitely looking to take on sort of more quality young talent, for sure brilliant.
Speaker 1:Well listen, lauren's absolute pleasure talking to you. I think you're a stand-up bloke and you're a shining prime example of what you can do very early on in a career and should well really be an inspiration to any person coming into financial planning, regardless of age, I think. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on Nice one.
