Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures, and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles, to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners, and back-office staff all have their own stories to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast serves as a platform for them to discuss their personal and professional journeys. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing, all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it will educate and spark a conversation within the industry on topics that may not be openly discussed. If you're considering a career as a financial adviser or are curious about learning more about this exciting sector, we encourage you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting as a trainer for a leading product provider in the UK, and he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources, such as this podcast, to educate those who are further seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
AI Is a Fuel, Not a Tool: Redefining Financial Advice with Saturn - Rohit Vaisha
What if your advisers could serve 20–30 more clients, save 45 minutes per meeting, and reduce suitability report time from 3 hours to 10 minutes - all without hiring more support staff?
That’s what Saturn AI is already delivering for over 600 financial planning firms ( 1600 Advisers ), and in this episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast, Sam Oakes sits down with co-founder Rohit Vaisha to explore how.
But this isn’t another “AI will replace advisers” narrative.
Saturn’s mission is to enhance human connection, not remove it, using AI as fuel to scale trust, proactivity, and personalised client care.
In this episode, you’ll discover:
- How Saturn AI boosts adviser productivity and efficiency across the advice journey
- Why paraplanners and compliance teams are key to scaling with AI
- The rise of proactive, always-on client engagement (and what advice firms can learn from Instagram and Netflix)
- The “universal adviser” model - what it is, and why it’s the future
- Why AI is only as good as the problems it’s solving — and the partners implementing it
💡 Whether you're an adviser, paraplanner, compliance lead, or business owner, this is your blueprint for using AI to grow your firm without losing the human touch.
👉 Book a meeting with Saturn AI: here
Be sure to follow Financial Planner life on YouTube for extra content about career development within Financial Planning.
Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or podcast production.
Want to appear on the Financial Planner Life podcast? drop Sam a message.
Tell us who Saturn are and what your mission is.
Speaker 2:AI presents us with almost like a fork in the road. There's either this kind of optimistic, abundant path that we can go down or there's this pessimistic kind of soulless, robot-driven, like we're all slaves to the robots type mentality.
Speaker 1:So that's your mission is actually elevate human connection, not remove it.
Speaker 2:I think elevating the human is always kind of on the right side of the fork in the road.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of different AI companies out there. They're all saying they're the next best thing. What makes Saturn?
Speaker 2:different. If you're not working with the right partner, then they're just going to put AI on top of that coal-powered factory. Proactivity is, if we distill it down to one word the service is going to be more proactive and it's going to be much more always on than what is right now.
Speaker 1:How does AI and financial planning, how does Saturn create what you would call peace of?
Speaker 2:mind. Remove all the mundane stuff that the financial advisor does, so they spend 60% of their time on admin work, on kind of nonsensical tasks that someone who is so skilled that the personal relationship should not be spending their time on. You can remove that. I think we can actually start to get closer to delivering financial peace of mind at scale so, rahit, thank you so much for joining me today on the financial planner life podcast.
Speaker 1:How are you? I'm very well. Thank you, how are you? Very, very good mate. Your journey's been amazing to watch. I love it. I remember I sat down with you guys in a coffee shop honest burgers, yeah, honest burger and you were telling me about everything that you were doing and I was like it sounds really interesting. Another ai company. I wonder how long they'll last. And here you are, you're smashing it, mate.
Speaker 2:Well done.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much appreciate it, and you've been a supporter since the beginning, so, mate always like I loved you boys, like when I come and sat down with you and heard about your journey and your story and one of the things that always stood out to me was that intergenerational wealth transfer, Because at the time it was really really popular and we were talking about intergenerational wealth transfer and you had loads of these ideas and we were sharing it over a burger. So I remember at the time thinking well these lads are pretty damn creative yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think there's the great wealth transfer has been talked about ever since I entered financial services. Right, so that was 2016. I started at BNY Mellon and in the academic research back then was like, oh, 30 trillion is going to be transferred over the next 30 years. How are businesses set up to deal with that? Um, I still think there's a huge amount to go. 30 years from 2016 is still kind of. We're only 10 years into that, so still 21 years left and for us, I think it's really important to build the foundation first, which is where we started, and then slowly build into that product proposition and solving that problem really for wealth management firms and advisors.
Speaker 1:So yeah, love it. Well, let's start with the beginning, because people might not know who you are, and that's the whole point of today is to really introduce the great work that you're doing and what your mission is.
Speaker 2:So tell us who Saturn are and what your mission is, yeah, so very simply, saturn's mission is to bring peace of mind to a billion people across the world. Now, I think the concept of peace of mind is very individual and unique, but ultimately, what Saturn is going to build, and is currently on the path to building, is a way for wealth management firms and financial planning firms to operate. So you think about every aspect of that client journey. You think about growing your clients, you think about off-boarding your clients all of that. We want to build a system that integrates with existing tools. Build our own existing, our new tools that kind of combine AI and a lot of new technology that is coming and use those things to basically provide leverage to these wealth management firms.
Speaker 2:The way we think about it is there's two kind of core metrics for us, like can we increase the number of clients that each advisor has and can we reduce the number of support staff per advisor? So it's not about getting rid of the support staff, it's enabling them to do more for the advisors that exist and actually growing the number of advisors. I think it's a commonly known problem. There's demographic challenges in the UK market and globally around advisor getting older and the new generation of clients does not have a home when it comes to advisors, but we think technology can provide wealth managers and IFAs the ability to serve that new generation of clients without having to hire new advisors or find new advisors. And so, given that I think this 1 billion target that we have with very, very far off um, we obviously currently work with around 600 uk firms um some kind of internationally as well.
Speaker 2:Um, and the focus is very much, from day one, always been how do we make the client experience, the advisor experience, much better, and through doing that, we think we found quite a good spot in the market where new tools are going to continue to come out. But I think ultimately, a financial planners business is predicated on trust. How do we build that trust with generations and people that they haven't served before? Through delivering great operational excellence and client experience.
Speaker 1:Love it look, billion people. It's a huge, hefty, old, lofty target. That's your, your north star. But how does ai and financial planning, how does saturn, create what you would call peace of mind? That's what we want to hear. Let's bring a human element into this now peace of mind. How do you do that?
Speaker 2:it's a fantastic question. I think when we think about this concept of peace of mind, I don't think about having a yacht or a ferrari. I think a lot about kind of my upbringing, ultimately, so that the, the genesis of saturn was very much, um, kind of me and amal came together in london talking about financial resilience. We then met our third co-founder, michael, and each of our individual stories were kind of in some way tied to this concept of peace of mind, but we came at it from a very different angle.
Speaker 2:I grew up my dad set up his own business when he was 14, moved here when he was nine, didn't have a scooby about kind of financial services, how to kind of build a business from a tax and all that advice that you need to be able to set up a business, and he was lucky that he met a financial advisor, an accountant, who helped him and that basically set me and my sister up to go to great schools.
Speaker 2:And for my parents, peace of mind was knowing that their kids were going to have a great life and be comfortable.
Speaker 2:Ultimately for someone, for someone else, peace of mind can mean something completely different going on six holidays a year or or going and buying a house in spain and being able to retire out there, but peace of mind.
Speaker 2:That concept and how ai and financial planning are going to go together is something that for us is quite obvious. Right, you have a service that is basically like a therapist or a personal trainer. That's quite unique in the sense that if you're my financial advisor, the reason I keep coming back to you is because I trust you and because I fundamentally believe that you have my best interests at heart, and so if we can take that and remove all the mundane stuff that the financial advisor does, so they spend 60% of their time on admin work, on kind of nonsensical tasks that someone who is so skilled that the personal relationship should not be spending their time on. If we can remove that, make it easier, actually start to draw out insights that they maybe have missed, I think we can actually start to get closer to delivering financial peace of mind at scale interesting.
Speaker 1:so when you think about the implementation of ai, do you you think about? You think about pushing the human element to the top? So it's not like pushing AI to the top and let's get everyone talking to robots or whatever it's actually like. What can I do to free up the financial planner, to be able to build deeper connection with the client? So that's your mission is actually elevate human connection, not remove it.
Speaker 2:Exactly. We talk about augmentation a lot, so even let's take the advisor out of it for a moment the power planner let's talk about them. So the power planners role is basically split across three buckets of tasks. You've got data gathering, you've got research and recommendation and then you've got the actual report writing. If you go and speak to any power planners we've hosted three power planner breakfasts across london and manchester so far and we hope to host another one in edinburgh quite soon we actually really dig into the mindset of the power planner.
Speaker 2:Why do they love what they do? Can we bring that to the fore and remove the stuff that they hate? So we in our office have sticky notes. We've got a white line that goes across all of the wall in the office. No sticky notes are actually from power planners.
Speaker 2:In green is the things they love, in red is the things they hate. And every day we kind of come back to that as almost like our altar or the church right and say what are we building tools for that? Elevate that, the green things, and detract away from or remove the red things. And so it's very much the same for us across the multiple different stakeholders within a financial planning business, this, the multiple different stakeholders within a financial planning business. This is not just tools for financial planners and everyone else falls by the wayside. This is tools for people who have a certain speciality or a certain skill set that we need to amplify and remove the stuff that actually prevents them from demonstrating those skill sets, and that's a kind of simple principle that we have as a company.
Speaker 2:Really elevate the human being here, because I think AI presents us with almost like a fork in the road. There's either this kind of optimistic, abundant path that we can go down or there's this pessimistic kind of soulless, robot-driven, like we're all slaves to the robots type mentality. I don't think we want to go down that path, and so I think elevating the human is always kind of on the right side of the fork in the road. I love that.
Speaker 1:You're going into these businesses not to replace anybody, but to work alongside them in a partnership manner. By the sounds of it, absolutely Does a partnership mean a lot to you.
Speaker 2:So we actually call our clients partners. We've got a partnerships team. Everything that we do is driven around partnership. So if you really break down the word partnership into its fundamental core, it's about kind of a mutually aligned benefit, right? So there's got to be, from day one, an understanding of what this business is and what this business wants to achieve, and also from our side, what we want to achieve and what our business is. And if there's that mutual understanding, I think you can form a really good partnership.
Speaker 2:What does a partnership mean to us?
Speaker 2:Well, we will spend a lot of time getting to know the people within each firm.
Speaker 2:So we spend we do discovery days with our clients, where we go into their offices, and we'll kind of ask the leadership to spend a day with their admin staff, a day with their power planners, a day with their advisors. And it might seem quite manual, but actually all of that work that you're doing is context gathering that you can then build into a product that works for this firm, or build into a process upon which the technology sits that works for this firm, whereas if you just go and sell chocolate bars or candy sticks, you're not really getting to know why the person who's buying the chocolate bar is coming to buy your chocolate bar, and for us that's the really most, that's the most important thing. Ai is a new technology. It's not new it's been around since 1960, but new in its current guise, in the sense of the hype and the expectation and the excitement. We think there's a huge opportunity, but there's also a huge risk and for us, partnership is the best way to kind of capitalise on that opportunity and manage the risk.
Speaker 1:Okay, excellent. What I do love as well is you're talking about going in there and actually working with people in the business that are doing the job currently. At the moment. Now ai could potentially replace those individuals, or at least they feel like they might be being replaced. Now you could go and sell the dreams of ai to the person who owns the business. We're going to save you this much time. You're going to make this much money, yeah, but there are people in the business that might be threatened by it. So you're saying you're going in there, working alongside the people that are in the business already doing the job, because a you're looking to enhance the experience that they actually have to improve their actual careers and how they work with ai, how they understand ai, how they prompt the air, how they feed back on it, how's gonna make their lives better. So, instead of going from the top, you're actually going in and at the level where ai is going to be the most impactful and probably where people probably feel the most vulnerable about AI replacing their jobs.
Speaker 2:I think that's the truth, right? There's a number of people that we've spoken to in power planning, admin roles who are very worried about their careers. They're like oh, does AI prevent me from going upstream and actually learning the stuff that I need to become an advisor or actually become a head of power planning or whatever, right? And we're like no, I think the skillset has to change. The job, that has to morph into something where you've got a human plus AI, not AI on its own, not a human on its own. And it's the same thing, like we draw the analogy back to Garry Kasparov, where he's playing against the chess robot and he loses and he's like actually I'd be super powerful alongside this robot, and actually he proved that by beating a number of people and the AI robot itself by itself when he was working alongside it.
Speaker 2:Because humans have this thing that is intuition, that is taste, that is kind of a bit more in the subconscious not in the conscious, not in the rational, but in in kind of the underlying, um, the way that we feel things.
Speaker 2:And I think that judgment is ultimately going to still remain with the human, and the power planner is therefore a skilled person who understands the technicalities, but also deeply understands how the ai is working, and that can augment them, um, rather than them running away scared, and and so for us there's a communication challenge there, and we spend a lot of time on communication with firms when we go live. There's also, then, the implementation challenge, which we spend again a huge amount of time on to make sure that everyone is comfortable or at least understands where the world is going From our perspective. We're not kind of Nostradamus, in the sense we're not predicting the future, but we're're saying this is the path that we can see, this is how the underlying technology is performing, etc. And I think that's just a really important way of going about it. Other people might have different opinions, but for us that's, that's the core. It speaks to the values of the company yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:the example around chess I mean some of these fantastic chess players, world renowned, brilliant people. They're not playing people every day anymore, they're playing AI, so they're training themselves and they're developing their skills whilst they're playing AI. But I don't want to tune into a chess game on YouTube. I don't do that that often. But if I was really into chess, I want to tune in and watch somebody playing AI. I want to see them play a human, so I'm interested in how is AI enhancing that championship chess player's game against another human?
Speaker 1:So all of a sudden, it's elevating their skills, isn't it? Exactly, and that's the way we want to look at it. It's a training tool for humans to be better at what they can actually do.
Speaker 2:I completely agree. I think it's going to make the human more human, to put it into like a very small pithy phrase. And if you look at I mean, I've not done a huge amount of reading and research on this but if you look at post-industrial revolution, up to now, humans became more mechanical. If you think about the types of work that we were kind of doing accounting law like these types of they're kind of quite robotic in their nature in the sense of I need to check this spreadsheet, I need to check these numbers, I need to go through this when the reality is that the value comes from the tastemakers, ultimately the people who are making those decisions on. Why should you check those numbers? And so I think more humans will be able to do more of that kind of tastemaking, judgment type work and leave the mundane work, the checking the kind of data, updating those types of tasks to systems now.
Speaker 2:And I think the systems will need to change right, I don't think your people always ask us like, oh, is this going to replace a CRM or are you going to build a CRM? Like no, but I think in an AI native world, the CRM ceases to be what you imagine a CRM should be right. It starts to become an interface where I can interact and understand and it's proactive and it's helping me do my job better, rather than a system where I put data and also with the system where you put data, there's so much error yes yeah, there is so much error that can actually and not even error, just so much missed data, right what?
Speaker 2:what lies in a human's head is kind of hard. Like 10 of it is going to be put down on paper in a system when we talk about a conversation, like there's so much subtext even in this conversation. Now you're asking me a question, but there's subtext and I'm answering the question. There's subtext, there's kind of feeling and there's emotion that translating that into a system is very hard. Like putting that data down into a certain field in a CRM is very hard. So why not just listen back to that audio?
Speaker 2:At some point in time and well, I asked the ai to understand rohit said these words. What were his emotions at the time? Um, and I think we're moving more into that world where you can actually be more human, um, and you can actually start to make judgments on intuition, emotion and taste, as opposed to always having to look at the numbers and the rationality behind certain things so what I love, love about Saturn, you did come across, as you know, an AI company that is more human than AI, and we're going to get onto that in a minute.
Speaker 1:I just want to ask you some questions about. You know, there are a lot of different AI companies out there. They're all saying they're the next best thing, and I mean they're playing on the idea of future thinking. People don't really quite understand AI. It's open to being manipulative. If I'm completely honest with you when it comes to these different companies setting up ai saying they're solving every single problem, right? What makes saturn different? Because isn't it just a plug and play? Aren't you all just using the same thing? You're all using the same large language models, isn't it just plug and play? What does it matter if I use saturn or if I use another company?
Speaker 2:I think that's a great question. I think the core difference comes down to what you've already talked about, right, the human element of it. Like, if you deeply understand the problem, the end product that you develop will be very different, irrespective of the underlying technology. The way we think about ai is that it's much more like electricity than it is like another tool, and so if you think about the differences that you're using an ipad, someone might buy a samsung um tablet. Why would they do that exactly? So you know that Apple is going to be premium because the user experience, the integration with your phone, with your MacBook, all of that experience is designed around the human problem. So when you're building a product, the technology is just one element of it, but your deep understanding of the other human being, the other side of the table, who's using the product, is very important, and that comes back to what I've been talking about in terms of judgment and taste. If you tell me that you've got a problem, my interpretation of that across three, four, five different people will be very different and the solution that I build to that, to your problem, will be very different. How I use AI in those circumstances will be very different. So, bringing it back to your question, how is Saturn different?
Speaker 2:I think one. We spend a lot of time deeply understanding the problem. We have a team of power planners and compliance experts who are actually working with our AI products to basically make them really fine-tuned before they go into the hands of our clients and our partners. We then have an incredible team. Like, honestly, I think the most important aspect of any building any company as a founder is, um, the team and the culture right. So those two things, if you get those right, then your kind of foundation is there and you can build a good company. If your team and your culture is not right, then everything kind of boils down to how intellectually capable is the founder, or how smart is the? How good idea, how? How good are his ideas? And I think his or her ideas. That's not really Saturn.
Speaker 2:Saturn is predicated on having an exceptional team of people who've worked across Goldman Sachs and world-famous fintechs to be able to bring that expertise into wealth. And when you think about what does that mean? That means the end client experience is always something we're focused on, and we want to deliver an exceptional experience, not just an exceptional tool, and I think that's also a key distinction. We want to build experiences, not tools, because the tools are part of the experience but not all of it. So this kind of discovery day, all of our setup in terms of when we go live with a firm, is very much around. How do we deliver the best experience?
Speaker 1:the technology is one aspect I love it that neurodiversity you've got within your business reminds you of like neurological pathways and neuroplasticity, the ability for the brain to kind of learn and change and move with times. Yeah, when I think about a business within technology, I think about business in ai. It's constantly moving. When you think about businesses within financial planning, it's stagnant, it's stayed the same. So it's almost this brain coming in and saying look, I'm going to come in, we're a brand new brain and we're going to change and develop things. We're going to put ourselves into your business. And I love that about what you're doing is putting yourself in the business as a partnership and saying, like it's, and that's what AI technically is Right, but it needs the human to be able to hold the hands to be able to introduce it.
Speaker 1:Because there is a fear. Right, there is a fear attached to whether or not we know what we're doing. Is that person coming in and just snake oiling me? Are they telling the truth, you know? Are they just trying to implement something that we don't know about? How do you deal with that fear? So there is a fear to implementing tech. Is it right now, is it tomorrow? Should I have done it, you know? Have I missed?
Speaker 2:we.
Speaker 2:We're vulnerable, to be very honest with you. We say that something. If there's an expectation from a client that something has to work today and we say actually, no, it doesn't work today, but we can work together to make it work tomorrow or the day after. I think that again plays into this human and vulnerability builds trust. Um, the technology is not going to solve world hunger. I'm going to be very honest with you. Like, that's the expectation level that we're dealing with currently in the industry and that's obviously going to come with fear as well, because it's kind of so. It's so hyped right.
Speaker 2:I think we're the realistic data and ai partner for firms. Um, and I can't say it any other way other than look this it took 60 years for people to figure out how to productionize and use electricity properly. But if you think about the end outcome, you've got factories that were coal powered versus your factories that are electricity powered. They look completely different. The types of roles that humans are doing within those factories are completely different. Now let's bring that analogy into wealth management. You've got your current setup of your advice journey. You've got different handoffs, different stakeholders, but if you're not working with the right partner, then they're just going to put ai on top of that coal-powered factory, not help you build the electricity powered factory.
Speaker 2:And for us it's about that, like there's a great quote from bill gates which says um, people overestimate what can happen in a year and underestimate what can happen in 10 years. I think we're building for that 10 year future, not that one year future. And then as soon as you kind of paint that picture, I think people start to trust you. But they're also kind of bought into the journey or not. And then you just you kind of filtered out the clients that you're dealing with.
Speaker 2:But ultimately I think it's building for that 10 year journey as to what your firm could become if you work with the right company and with the right company. And so for us that's the kind of how we deal with. The fear is like there's a vision that you have for how your client should experience your service. Let's build towards that. It's not going to be done on day one, it's not gonna be done on day 10, but it's going to be done. And as long as you trust us, as long as you work together with us no-transcript level relationship building there and then on top of that you can start to do some really interesting stuff yeah, clear boundaries, yeah, clear expectations.
Speaker 1:Exactly now, what about customizing different firms, different personalities? Um, there's always a fear. Think, with tech, that it's quite binary. So you come in and you say it's this way or that way and you've got to now change your business to fit around our technology. And then all of a sudden they implement it and everyone's really unhappy. You know, I don't want to do it that way, I want to do it this way. You pride yourself again on being a company that works in partnership. That is the human element to AI. What do you do about working with firms to ensure that they keep their personality, they keep their staff happy, and is there customization that comes with this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely there has to be customization. I think AI allows for it. So if you go and talk to ChatGPT, your ChatGPT is going to give you different responses than it would give me. Mine's cheeky yeah, mine's kind of quite boring and staid, probably like me, but ultimately in a firm you've got different kind of ways of talking to clients. We ultimately are a company that will bespoke to that right. So we have golden standards.
Speaker 2:To be honest, we just acquired a company called ATEB Suitability. They have 20 years worth of compliance expertise. We want to build that into our products and we really see the opportunity there, because a lot of the suitability report writing tools and things like that don't take into account the biggest aspect, I'd say, of financial services, which is compliance, and so for us, we want to build in that expertise. So again it comes back to this partnership. We'll take what you have, we'll put it through our team of experts. They'll say, actually, I'll change and this we actually present the business case to them and say, look, if you change this, this makes it easier for you over the long term and it actually reduces the risk you have as a business. Now some firms will say, no, I still want to do it my way. Other firms will say, yeah, that sounds like a good approach, like we've had those two paths actually in the last week and we're happy to do either. But I think it's that honest conversation as to what benefits is this going to provide to me as a firm and what am I actually trying to solve here.
Speaker 2:If you're trying to solve a suitability report writing problem and you want your pretty pictures and stuff like that, I think we're missing the point about what clients really value. So clients really value the trust and the relationship with the advisor. Why are we spending 10 hours writing a suitability report? The client doesn't necessarily read all of it. I think there's a stat from the FCA that clients read maybe the first two pages of their suitability report and don't read anything else. I think that speaks to your clients don't care about the document you send them. Your clients care about the advisor that you send them, the advisor relationship that they can develop. And therefore it comes back to this point of how do we augment the human relationship and remove all the mundane. How do we augment the human relationship? I think again, like I want I do like this analogy I'm going to keep banging on about it.
Speaker 2:Ai is a fuel, not a tool. A fuel to accelerate certain things good practices and bad practices if you implement it in the wrong way. I think we're in an era where proactive engagement of clients is going to be the norm. Clients expect it. Clients expect it on their apps, on Instagram, on Twitter, on the algorithms are telling them what they should be looking at and you're basically a kind of an observer in this beautiful fantasy cinema. Right Like the AI algorithm is telling you like this film is the right film for you.
Speaker 2:But in financial services, everything is reactive. It's like you, as a client, have to come to me to tell me what is going on in my life, what I'm worried about, what I'm happy about, what I want to achieve in five years. What would the world look like if you flipped it on its head, if you, as the advisor, were going to the client and saying its head, if you, as the advisor, were going to the client and saying I know you really well, I know that this was the path that you've taken so far. Have you thought about doing this? What would the experience feel like to the client? I think it would feel like someone is always listening to them and someone is always caring for them, because I think that's what advisors across the UK like.
Speaker 2:We've got 1,600 advisors on on our platform. I cannot name a single one that doesn't deeply care for their clients and every single one of them has a different client relationship with their different clients. But they're kind of shooting in the dark a little bit oftentimes because the data isn't right. They don't remember what they talked about 12, 24 months ago. They don't have that timeline. I think proactivity is if we distill it down to one word, the service is going to be more proactive and it's going to be much more always on than what is right now right.
Speaker 1:So I love that. So give you. I'll give you some examples of in my life where I've engaged with a service that, historically, has always been reactionary, um, face to face, and um I had to wait to get the answer that I wanted. So, one being a personal trainer and two being mental health support. So I've signed up for BetterHelp. And do you know BetterHelp app.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One thing I've absolutely loved about that is that any point at any time that I can actually connect with a counsellor, I can send a message, I can send a text. They'll respond to me and engage with me. Now I know they're probably using a little bit of ai within that and there is a human element to it as well, but it doesn't feel then so transactional. It feels like I've got a relationship ongoing with my counselor. So for me it doesn't feel like I'm trading time for money to get the support that I want. That feels transactional, which within me who's always kind of felt that healing comes through um altruism and connection over time, a relationship, not a transaction. So that and when I take that and then I look at also personal training, where my mate went from being like just in the gym to actually having an app and communicating with me and talking to me and checking in with me and I could ask questions absolutely love that.
Speaker 1:Now, all these are slightly too too human right.
Speaker 1:So the augmentation when it comes in with the ai, where I can then go and do you know what?
Speaker 1:I speak to chat gpt more than I speak to any financial coach or any financial advisor about my finances now, the ability to build an app, but to know that my financial planner's face is there or that my financial planner's business is there and I'm able to ask it a question quickly and it's got data that's stored on me from deep, relevant conversations and up-to-date information about where my finances are and how the markets are performing but also understands, maybe, my psychology of who I am yeah, how I, how I feel, how emotional I am, because we're all emotionally different.
Speaker 1:I have a different level of emotional requirement from my financial advisor that you might have. Yeah, now, that to me is exciting. If I've got that person in my pocket that I can talk to and get the answers that I want, and I know the answers that are coming in are correct. That is exciting and that's the way I look for the future of financial planning. And going back to your idea of a billion people getting peace of mind, that's the peace of mind that I want, because it hasn't been there.
Speaker 2:It's not there yet, but when it is, I think it's going to make people feel financially well yes, and I think this concept of financially independent as well, right like you, what you've you kind of have, I think, a bit of a a distinction at the moment between people who feel financially independent and people who don't, irrespective of wealth and the amount of money they have or the cars they have sitting in their drive.
Speaker 2:I think what we need and humans have always needed this and we'll always need this, and in some sense it's our fallibility, but also our beauty is we need others. We're a social creature and we need other beings around us to make us feel good, um, and connection, exactly, and so that, how do we make that scalable? I don't think ai is going to give you connection. I think ai is going to give you the answers you need at the points in time you need them, and then it will refer you into a human being when you need it. Um, I think the training of the ai that's personal to sam and that's personal to rohit is really important and that's kind of trained on conversations, trained on data that exists on you. Some people might not be comfortable with that.
Speaker 2:Other people will be really comfortable, like I would be really comfortable with that yeah but I think that ability to still speak to a human being face to face and still kind of have a deep conversation, yeah, with that human being is really important and that becomes a premium service, exactly, and I love that.
Speaker 1:You know I'm happy to talk to. I would be happy to talk to a version of you, right, if it come up on the screen and it was a version of you and I knew it was ai, but it was trained on you and I knew that 99 of what you're telling me is absolutely true, right, I would be kind of happy with that because my brain's already got to know you, engaged with you, yeah, understands who you are and trusts you, and at any point I can ask you a question and get an answer. I think most of us would probably be happy with that yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think that's where you get to a billion people. Yeah, because not a billion people can't get access to a human being financial advisor face to face all the time. Um, but I think you can get peace of mind all the time.
Speaker 1:That's it. Well, that's what we're looking for. It goes back to that peace of mind. So I love your mission there absolutely. I want to move on to something else that a lot of people think about when they run a business and that is like right, okay, well, great, we're going to put ai into the business. What's the return on investment?
Speaker 2:it's a great question, um, and I think historically with technology you would have taken like three to six months of ramp up to get the benefits of any system. So you've got to train people up, you've got to kind of build in the systems and processes around that piece of technology. There's some aspects of it, some learning that we've had which is very similar to other pieces of technology that you do have to train, you do have to implement it properly on a process. But the other aspect is on day one you'll start to see benefits. So from our data we save advisors around 45 minutes per client meeting just on kind of file notes, data updating tasks and handing over information to their team. Then, from a power plans perspective, we've got report writing on some of the simpler reports down from three hours to kind of 10, 15 minutes, and that's not a promise. That's kind of working together with these firms to basically deliver on what they expect and kind of that back and forth between us as a partnership to make sure that their documents are structured in the right way to make sure the AI is working really well. We go through a period of configuration and training with each of our firms, but the return on investment is very high and the way that we think about this is it's those sparks that we're seeing of AI being a fuel that will operate and enable businesses to operate in a completely different way than what they have before.
Speaker 2:I've spoken to JJ about this at Hoxton, and one of the things that he and I both agree with is you'll have a kind of divergence between the support roles. So some support roles, some people will go more technical and some people will go more human, and there's going to be room in the world for both, but not room in the world for the middle. And so, with the more technical people, can you get them to do more tax planning, more estate planning, more inheritance tax calculations, more product recommendations, analysis with the human? Can you actually turn on this, all always on service, almost with your admins? Can you get them to reach out to clients when it's their birthday, when it's their kids birthdays? Can we actually start to bring in more of that personality? Can they actually start to do client meetings that are just check-ins?
Speaker 2:No, no advice is getting given. Just how are you? What's going on in your life, what are you worried about, about what are the latest updates? And then you bring in a financial planner if there is something more technical. So, one, the return on investment is obvious. But two, I think it enables it's almost what you do with that time. Right, it's saving a lot of time. But if I'm going to go and just listen to podcasts and mong out on the sofa like it's not really useful time, I'm not seeing that return in the business. But if I actually spend that time speaking to speaking to another client or speaking to my existing clients and making them feel like I'm always there for them, then there's a huge roi do you think there's an roi on then upskilling?
Speaker 1:you know power planners, administrators traditionally those that would be sat in front of a document. All of a sudden they're now freeing up their time to be more interactive with clients.
Speaker 2:I completely agree I think it goes back to this point of making the human more human, like I think we have an opportunity to reskill power planners and admin and everyone in the team, ultimately to be really pointed and client centric.
Speaker 2:When the fca's consumer duty came out, that was kind of around the time that we met and it was also around the time that saturn started kind of formulating for us that was just a very simple. There was like a principle in there which was customer obsession. Financial services companies have not been customer obsessed historically because they haven't used their data very well. There's a mckinsey study that says wealth management firms only use 10 to 15 of the data that they have right, and so if you think about that, that kind of is almost a hamstring. It it's hamstringing firms to be able to actually provide that proactive, always on service to their clients. So, given all of that environment, I do think we have the ability to retrain people to make them more skilled in kind of interacting with human beings, and it doesn't have to be that you always have to be this kind of socialite, kind of extrovert. No, you can be yourself, but ultimately you've got to give the client some value and I think that's really important so you talked about time save.
Speaker 1:So looking at some hard numbers I don't know if you've got any hard numbers around time save you said 45 minutes per client meeting per client meeting. Have you sort of extrapolated that forward with some of the people that you've worked with for some time now? Have you checked in with them to see, well, what does that time mean in respect of new revenue, incomes, profits do you have any hard figures around that?
Speaker 2:yeah, so on average, I think the clients have been working with us for kind of more than three months, we'll actually start to be able to free up enough time to serve 20 to 30 more clients, right? So that's the kind of number that we're we're kind of seeing already. And also, when it comes to the other ratio that I talked about, so support to advisor ratio, what we're starting to see is firms are employing more advisors but then asking the question do I need another support or can my existing support handle that right? And so I think those two things are really almost green shoots as to like what our thesis is playing out. Um, in some sense, I think there's also more data to gather, which is a bit more kind of qualitative, around how people feel in the business, like are you doing stuff that you enjoy more and are you doing less of the stuff that you dislike? We've not done anything on that, but I think that's going to be.
Speaker 2:Next, in terms of, is job satisfaction actually increasing? Because I think if you're satisfied in your work, the work that you deliver will ultimately be of a higher quality, and, especially if we're dealing with clients, if we're really empowered and enjoying our work, the work that you deliver will ultimately be of a higher quality. And, especially if we're dealing with clients, if we're really empowered and enjoying our work, the work that we deliver to our clients will be continually better, and so it's a bit difficult to measure that right now, because that's not a hard number, but I think it's really important that we look at that, and some of our firms are kind of tracking, baselining time on certain tasks, but also expectations and enjoyment on certain tasks, and then seeing how that is post AI, and I think that's really forward thinking and really proactive.
Speaker 1:No, I love that you said to me before as well about Saturn's pricing model. Yeah, the pricing model actually grows with the company. Can you just explain that to me and how that works, if someone's listening right now and they're thinking well, what price point am I coming in? Am I going to be spending more? You look at HubSpot. Yeah, every time you use HubSpot as a marketing tool, you add things. Oh, I spoke to Foster DeNovo yesterday and you can spend 50,000 quid a year on HubSpot.
Speaker 2:It's a marketing tool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. So how does it work with financial planning firms in that respect? So the, if you like, how it grows with the business?
Speaker 2:So we've got phased. We have a modular approach to kind of delivering solutions to financial advice firms. So our first module is around advisor productivity and data. So we call that our capture suite. That includes meeting notes, it includes LOAs, it includes integrations, it includes other features that we'll build that aren't yet ready for clients to use but are in testing around the data, quality of data, updating data. That's priced on a per advisor basis. So that's very simple because the advisors are the ones doing the meeting. We see kind of productivity gains massively, like 45 minutes per advisor.
Speaker 2:If your advisor's charging, let's say, clients 150 pounds to 250 pounds per hour, that's a huge amount of time that's freeing up to be able to unlock more revenue. So that's our pricing model for phase one. Then for phase two our pricing model is kind of at a firm level. So this comes back to your point. Historically your SaaS companies have been priced on a per license basis. But what that drives is actually, at some point it drives lower adoption because you're going to worry is Sam actually going to use this product or should I not give him a license? But you're hamstringing your firm getting great data, getting great kind of streamlined processes, because Sam's using a different process than me, and for us I think that's been a really interesting unlock where we've spoken to firms. They understand our pricing approach. They understand why we do it, because ultimately this is a firm level transformation.
Speaker 2:This is just a tool.
Speaker 2:This is like a fuel that's going to run your business in a very different way, and so you need everyone in the business on board, and if it takes longer to get sam on board than it takes to get rohit on board, that's great because we'll provide the support there.
Speaker 2:And then we've got our guardian suite, which is our compliance tools, which we've not really talked about but around risk management, around detection, around kind of checking cases, things like that, and that is again at a firm level, because you need that firm-wide adoption. You need to understand the risk of the business as a director and as a leader. You also need to help people understand why that's important. And I think if people don't adopt this at a firm level and just kind of keep it in pockets for too long, it becomes this kind of side project and a side hustle and other firms who are going to actually use it and kind of take the leap ultimately to work their business in a different way, will be the beneficiaries over the kind of five to ten years that I was talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that right, okay, so it's accessible to anybody. Then, really different shapes and sizes, yeah, and it grows with you as you grow. Exactly right, and you influence it. Now one of the things as well. I know that a lot of people you know working, um, working in marketing and brand. You know I get dragged into meetings and you can imagine me as a creative right Sam. So what's the return on investment of everything you've done? Have you got any analytics? Can you show me some facts and figures? When someone said that to me I literally melt.
Speaker 1:I like sitting and having conversations with people. To me, it's all about well, how good do I feel in the moment? And if you had some positive feedback from a podcast and has your brand grown because of it? Like, it's a feelings thing for me, but for often, for a lot of people, and actually when I get into the nitty-gritty and I look at analytics, I actually quite like to see the analytics. It becomes quite a motivator for me. What do you do to be able to provide analytics? Is there a dashboard? Is there data? How do you? How do you? Um work with companies to use that data to their advantage, for example?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, especially for larger firms, we see them being very data hungry, right. So we provide like a very custom dashboard for each firm. It's got like usage, it's got kind of time spent, it's got all these different metrics within it, and the reason we provide that is because, as a firm, because we're on the first step of AI, this is not the end. This is not the beginning. We're in kind of the intermediary stages of actually implementing this in businesses.
Speaker 2:I think having data that's actually playing back to you how the return on investment is like you should see it in a hard, cold number. You shouldn't listen to Rohit, really, because ultimately, you've got to make the decision for your firm is this investment worth it or not for us? And so, when we think about it, what we're thinking about is providing firms with that oversight and visibility of all of the interactions that are happening across their business where risks lie, where kind of errors lie, what's happening, what's being produced and and kind of. Can we give that data to you to be able to say, okay, this is actually giving us a huge amount of time saving here because Sam's using it in every meeting. Everyone else is using it in 80, 90% of their meetings and client cases. And this is the amount of time we're saving. And then you multiply that by the number of clients and you can start to see very quickly the ROI.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of firms don't have that access to data or typically haven't, because their data quality has been very poor. And if data quality is poor then you might have a beautiful looking dashboard but it's actually not telling you the right story, it's telling you lies, because that data is not true. And so for us we've got the data quality. We understand that if it's used in 85 to 90% of client meetings, sometimes clients might say no, I don't want my meeting to be recorded, which is completely fine.
Speaker 2:But as long as it's used in kind of mass, we can start to play back that data to firms and for us, actually, insights and data is a huge kind of button to push over time and a huge thing to progress with, because financial planning businesses the best ones will become data businesses 'll become really, really kind of driven insight machines, ultimately using their data all the time to understand the opportunities that exist for sam as a client versus rohit as a client versus john as a client, you know, and that kind of personalization at scale is really how you do that. You. You need data, you need those insights. Then you action on it, not just taking decisions based on a hunch because you can't do that at scale. So that data analytics, data insights, is a really important aspect of what Saturn does.
Speaker 1:I love it. You talked about Hoxton earlier. Obviously, I'm head of creative over there at Hoxton Wealth and we're an international financial planning business. You're working alongside Jonathan Jay in the UK and the implementation there. So how is it working with Hoxton Wealth compared to, say, some other businesses, different shapes and sizes? Who's doing things well? Are we doing things well? Give us some feedback and comparison and inspect of how others are using it and how we're using it. What can be done better or what are we doing well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's a great question. So I would say Hoxton is obviously quite a unique business and the ambition that the UK business has and JJ specifically has. So there's a lot of acquisitions, there's a lot of growth organically, um, and the great thing about jj is that he's completely bought into this right. So, from the top he said a culture that everyone will get access to saturn. Everyone will be using it and if, and he has access to the analytics, so he's he's able to see who's using it and who's not and ask those questions why are're not using it? And then feedback to me to say, rohit, this person's not using it because of x, y and z.
Speaker 2:Can we use some training? Can we do this? And I think that's really where the insight and unlock is, because it's not about reprimanding people for not using a tool like it's new and it's scary and it's exciting. I think it's actually much more about understanding the human being on the other side, understanding why they they're not using it, understanding what we can do to deliver a great experience or train them or help them understand why it's important and why they should use it. And I think, as long as we're doing that and Holston does that really well. I think we're in a great position.
Speaker 1:Sorry to interrupt you there. I was going to ask you another question because it just comes to my mind and there's my ADHD jumping in now. What's your vision for the universal advisor?
Speaker 2:because I know we spoke about the universal advisor. What's your vision for that? So the universal advisor concept is where we believe the financial planner should be the center of their client's life, right? So when we talk about the center, sam, you tell me a little bit. Like what is your? Your financial life resides in banks. It resides in kind of trading apps, investment apps.
Speaker 1:It resides everywhere it resides in my head at the moment or chat chat GPT.
Speaker 2:It's a doggy spreadsheet on my iPad.
Speaker 1:Actually it's not bad. I've done a really good one recently. A little cash flow forecast. Well, there we go right.
Speaker 2:So your data is sitting in three or four different places your banking data and things like that. Imagine if that was all connected to the advisor and they could actually use that data to give you proactive insights and say to you sam, I notice you're kind of traveling a lot between dubai and london recently. What's that about? Are you kind of planning to stay in dubai? What's your goal here? You know, like I think that data is completely missing right now unless you actually told your advisor I'm going between dubai and london because of x. Like imagine if they were proactively reaching out to you to do it. That doesn't.
Speaker 2:That's not the end of the universal advisor, though the end of the universal advisor is actually. Can they start to provide knowledge and guidance on what the best bank account is for you in dubai, because you're going there or you're staying there or you're living there, what the best ht planning, estate planning strategies are if you're looking for a mortgage? Can they connect you with the right person and the right person being I can't decide well who the right person is, if I really know you and so that's what we mean by putting the advisor at the center of their client's life and then building the firm around that, because that's when the power planner can unlock more technical expertise, that's when the admin can start to be more proactive, with kind of checking in with clients and saying oh Sam, you were going to Dubai, how was your trip? You know, if you just got a little message like that from your financial advisor, I think it would completely. It would add a level of trust that doesn't currently exist right.
Speaker 1:Especially if it came to me with preempted solutions to problems that I've yet to experience. I've gone through something like that, like moving out to Dubai. I'm not somebody who you know, I'm a doer, right. I just get out there and get things done and sometimes I think about the problem when it occurs. Yeah, like it'd be amazing if I had the ability to be prompted that. You are going out there, sam. What are you doing out there? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? When do you think you'll ever come back?
Speaker 2:here's a great restaurant for you that you should go check out.
Speaker 1:You know, like even stuff like that like almost like a concierge and that is like the way the internet is going right. Yeah, that we are being to have these agents that will go out and do things for us, find things for us, based on what we're doing. It starts to learn from our behavior.
Speaker 2:There was a great product demo I saw on twitter the other day. Um called scouts, right? Scouts is basically you tell it, like I'm really interested in this football team, like tell me all the transfer updates on them, right, and it's basically on the web 24 7 looking for transfer updates for this club that you really like, and it will give them back to you on your phone, yeah, and so you could take that to any level, like I'm really interested in new michelin star restaurants in london that I want to take my girlfriend to, and it's going to be scouting the web all the time for new michelin star restaurants that are suitable for a couple yeah and so if you can imagine that that use case is there already, how could that be applied to a financial planner's business?
Speaker 1:or also as well, like, like it, kind of like. You've booked a ticket to go to dubai in three months time and it knows that you likes michelin starred restaurants. Therefore it might book a reserve.
Speaker 2:Reserve a table, exactly I love that shit that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like proper concierge. So your financial planner becomes the con, becomes a financial concierge, which is quite and also lifestyle. So it always becomes that one thing. It's not. You know, musk had that idea for the one app yes, isn't it? You know, you did the one app, yeah, which I think is kind of the way it's the race towards that, isn't it really? The internet is morphing into this one whole kind how do we connect everything together?
Speaker 2:for this person to deliver what they need it I love it before they need it.
Speaker 1:So one of the things I also just want to do before we go is one of the biggest challenges right now for you as a company and I know we spoke about this previously, so I'm kind of jumping in with that now is basically qualifying who the right company is right now to work with Saturn. Let's tackle that one. So who do you think? If someone's listening right now and they're thinking, are we the right company to work with saturn? Um, what would you like to make them aware of before? Perhaps they reached out to you so they didn't waste their time as well, for example? So I think that's really important. We don't waste people's time. So how do you qualify those people right now who are listening, as to whether or not they should? Obviously, everyone should go and approach you guys and girls but who's the right person right now to be talking to you?
Speaker 2:I think you have to be ready to give it a go right with. There's a lot of exploration that's happening. I completely understand it, um, but I think do a lot of digging beforehand, like. One of the things that I love the most is when I get onto a call and a person on the other side of the phone or video or in person is saying I've done research on these three problems that I want to solve in my business and I've spoken to two or three different advisors or friends of mine who are advisors, who recommended you or who thought about here are the two or three tools I should look at. How can you help me solve these problems? The worst thing is when someone gets on the phone and they don't know what problem they're looking to solve. They're looking for, kind of they're looking for a solution to a problem they don't even know, and that that is kind of the wrong thing and the wrong way to approach any change project, any transformation. If you've got a big problem, go and hunt for the players who are going to solve it, start there and then you can expand from there. So that's one thing, I think, also ambition. So for us it's a bit qualitative, I suppose. But do you have the ambitions to grow your business? Because I think that's truly where the AI that we're building or the tools that we're building will really help. So JJ is a perfect example.
Speaker 2:We'd obviously spoken with jake. Uh, in in the international business, jake had mentioned a few times to a few different people that saturn's really good because he'd used it. Jj came with this problem and he said rohit, my advisors don't necessarily document all their conversations to the same standard. How can we solve that? I've heard from jake that your tool is really good and I was like, yeah, it is. Uh, we'd obviously vouch for it. And we started and basically ran a short pilot, um, and basically at the end of the pilot it became where do I sign? Because it already displayed that it could solve the problem, versus more of a negotiation or hung drawn like, oh, I really want to do this, this and this, and I'm like and then I asked the question what problem do those things solve? And if the person on the other side can't answer it, I think they haven't thought rigorously enough about the way that their business needs to go and evolve, and so that's really how I'd frame it. I'd frame it as deeply understand your business and the problems you need to solve and then look for a solution to those and work with a partner that's going to actually question whether those are the problems or they're just symptoms of a deeper problem.
Speaker 2:Because you also get this thing like, oh, I want to automate this document, but actually no, you don't. You want to solve that whole process and waste less time in it. So actually there's a data consolidation, there's a kind of an analytics problem, and then there's the production of the artifact. Have you thought about all of the things leading into that time or are you just thinking about the end product? And for us it's about identifying those firms who've thought about that journey, the advice journey, the process. They're ideal for us, they're perfect because they have ambition. They've also thought about it. They thought about the risks, they thought about how they want to implement it. They thought about communication. Who in their team is going to trial it? How are they going to roll it out? That's a dream client for us.
Speaker 1:I love it. So, john. A final note no-transcript.
Speaker 2:We've grown, um, and I think there's two enablers that we've done really well as a business to enable that. One is build a great product, and that is not down to me, that's down to the team, um, the second is community. So we have a community of people who are saturn users, who we update regularly. We have kind of community check-ins, we have events, we host breakfast, we host dinners, we host other things that are basically keeping people in the loop as to what Saturn is doing. That is not your traditional marketing spend, it's not content, it's kind of much more human. It's kind of getting in front of people and understanding their problem and understanding how Saturn is helping them or how Saturn can improve. And I think overall in this is kind of this view that we have that quite humble, like we just want to listen to our clients and solve their problems.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, we have this vision for peace of mind to a billion people. But the way that we're going to get there is by listening to the experts at delivering peace of mind. Today and now the IFA is the wealth managers who are delivering peace of mind to all their clients. Like, if you look at the NPS scores for the advice business. It's like 89, 88 or something like that. That's crazy high, right. And how do we? How do we scale? That is the big question. So yeah, I guess it's a simple strategy. At the moment, like we're, we've kind of done a few press releases around scaling, around the acquisition that we did, um, just to let people know that we're here and that's what we're doing and the reasons why we're doing it, um, and I think that kind of human communication is really important yeah, there's one thing that you'd want our listeners to remember about saturn.
Speaker 1:What is it?
Speaker 2:ai is a tool that's going to augment the human being, not replace it. Love it all right.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for your time today. Going into some detail about saturn, all the great work you're doing in ai and financial planning, I think you're absolutely hitting it in the right spot in the right way and I love your human approach to it and it's been certainly interesting I think one of the most interesting people I've spoken to um and understood as well, because sometimes ai can be quite complex and complicating but you really do simplify it and I think that shows your ability to communicate complex problems within a profession that probably might not feel that it's ready for it. But you're certainly making it easy for people to understand where the benefits are, and not only that, you're showing it as well appreciate your time, sam.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for inviting me. Thank you take care.
