Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures, and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles, to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners, and back-office staff all have their own stories to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast serves as a platform for them to discuss their personal and professional journeys. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing, all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it will educate and spark a conversation within the industry on topics that may not be openly discussed. If you're considering a career as a financial adviser or are curious about learning more about this exciting sector, we encourage you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting as a trainer for a leading product provider in the UK, and he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources, such as this podcast, to educate those who are further seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
Be sure to check out
Financial Planner Life Academy - start your career today!
https://financialplannerlife.com/academy/
Financial Planner Life Podcast
85 First Client Meetings in 2 Months, Why I Love Prospecting!
How do you get clients as a financial planner without buying leads or relying on referrals?
In this episode of Financial Planner Life, Sam Oakes interviews Jak Ali, Managing Director of J.A. Financial Planning Ltd, a Partner Practice of St. James’s Place Wealth Management.
Jak shares exactly how he generates clients as a financial adviser using creative, confident, and relationship-based business development. He has built his entire client base without depending on lead providers or a legacy client book.
After training as a barrister and working on a death penalty case in California, Jak switched careers and moved to Dubai, where he began his financial planning career in a pure business development role. No leads. No shortcuts. Just hard work and smart strategy.
It was there he learned a powerful truth:
If you can master business development, you will never need to rely on anyone again.
He later joined St. James’s Place at age 26, going straight into self-employment with full confidence that he could build a book of clients himself. And he did.
Check out St James Place Academy here - https://www.sjp.co.uk/academy
One of his most inspiring stories?
Jak saw a Vodafone executive on LinkedIn, but calls and emails went unanswered.
So he flew to Luxembourg, waited by the stage at a tech summit with two cans of Irn-Bru (the exec was Scottish), and landed a 20-minute meeting.
That conversation led to a new client and a mindset shift that changed everything.
In this episode, you will learn:
🔹 How to get clients as a financial planner using creative prospecting
🔹 Why business development is the most important skill in financial advice
🔹 The truth about going self-employed with St. James’s Place
🔹 How to niche into sectors like education and generate leads at scale
🔹 Why Jak mentors aspiring financial planners on confidence and psychology
🔹 How to create a lifestyle-first model built on faith, family, and finance
Jak no longer chases clients. They come to him.
Whether you are just starting your career, exploring self-employment, or trying to grow your client base, this episode is your blueprint for building a financial planning business on your terms.
you can also watch this episode on the finanical planner Life YouTube channel
📍 Hosted by Sam Oakes, Founder of Financial Planner Life, the UK’s leading podcast for careers in financial planning. If you want to start your own podcast or appear on the finanical Planner Life podcast, reach out - sam@financialplanerlife.com.
Be sure to follow Financial Planner life on YouTube for extra content about career development within Financial Planning.
Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or podcast production.
Want to appear on the Financial Planner Life podcast? drop Sam a message.
I wanted to become a financial advisor and there's nothing wrong with having goals that are linked to finances because I was looking up on the board and thinking, blimey, they're making a lot of money. And in my head I thought why would I want to be a lawyer, earning a fraction but working quadruple the amount makes no sense to me. When it comes to turning the lead on the lead generation, I do it like that. January and february I had 85 meetings, first meetings, so now I'm all right, but that's how much I focus I place on business development. But that's, I guess, just my nature of how I deal with my clients, the way in which I treat them, and I'm just getting constant referrals.
Speaker 2:Is there any kind of tried and tested business development strategies that you could share today with our audience to get them going?
Speaker 1:You have to be passionate about helping people because, believe me, they see right through you if you don't. Right now I'm spending more energy on my family. I'm spending more energy at universities mentoring students. Right, I'm doing things I love, but that doesn't mean my business is suffering.
Speaker 2:It's anything my business is doing better jack, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast. How are you? Thanks for having me. I'm great. Thank you very much. You're absolutely welcome. Interesting background. We've been having a bit of a chinwag over a coffee. Just before the podcast, you worked on a death penalty case in America. Let's start with that first. Tell us a little bit about that in that early part of your career little bit about that in that early part of your, uh, your, your career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this was when I was 19, 20 years old. Um, as you are when you're young, you have dreams and aspirations, um, some realistic, some unrealistic. So I wanted to be a lawyer the way lawyers are in america in court advocating, you know, for death penalty or against it, whatever it may be and I wanted to do some work experience in that field. So there's a company called California Innocence Project, reached out to Jeff Chin at the time, who was the lead attorney, got some work experience, flew out there, and one of the first cases I worked on was the Brian banks case, which has later turned into a netflix movie. Um, wonderful, wonderful experience. But reality hit home when I moved back to the uk and uk law is nothing like that. It's a bit boring, is it? Yeah, not made for the movies not made, it'd be an awful movie, put it that way.
Speaker 2:So how long did you spend in law then? Did you sort of give it a good couple of years, or did you just make? A very early decision to not be in it.
Speaker 1:No, I spent a few years trained as a barrister, worked as a paralegal, a medical negligence company and, honestly, I was young at the time and I just didn't feel as if I was fulfilled in terms of my goals. So that's when I moved to Dubai, um, moved into the finance sector and I've never looked back.
Speaker 2:Cool, okay, well let's look, I'm in Dubai. That's current right. Yeah, tell us a little bit about what you were doing over in Dubai then.
Speaker 1:So I joined a finance company, wealth management company, and started off as a business development manager. And it is how it is, as in the west is the west. So it was a lot of cold calling, a lot of getting out there, hard hours and, in short, the more you put in, the more you get out. So I was doing that for probably about six months before I was promoted to head of business development. So obviously what I was doing was working for myself and we wanted to share that. And then I thought you know what I love this? I love the thrill. I was young, I was 24, 25, it was exciting and I wanted to become a financial advisor and there's nothing wrong with having goals that are linked to finances. Because I was looking up on the board and thinking, blimey, they're making a lot of money. And in my head I thought why would I want to be a lawyer? Earning a fraction but working quadruple? The amount makes no sense to me at the time. I was young, so decided to do the exams and again, never looked back.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. So how long did you spend in Dubai as a financial advisor?
Speaker 1:as a financial advisor. In total it was maybe about two years, two to three years because I actually moved back to the UK to open the UK arm of the company, which again was exciting because Chris at the time, who was my CEO, he gave me full reins. He said go set up, hire people, get it fully functioning, get the business development solid and we've got our UK branch. So that's what I ended up doing. So it was two to three years. Dubai and Newcastle at the time, both mixed, interesting.
Speaker 2:So what happened?
Speaker 1:interesting. So what happened? Um, again, it was probably my, my thought process. I was very determined to go down one route. Um, listen, I was earning good money as a 25, 26 year old at the time. Um, significantly more than the average. But I wasn't fulfilled. I wanted to do more. So I decided okay, I want to move closer to family. Family is big for me and I want to give uk advice a go, because international advice is different, as you'll know, very different. Um, and that was the decision I made. Uh, joined wesleyan, who are based in birmingham. It was remote advice. I was used to working remotely before covid and my biggest strength was business development.
Speaker 2:So I took to it, like you know, really, really well I remember I ran a recruitment company and I used to recruit for wesleyan, and wesleyan was like teachers, lawyers, dentists, doctors, and I always remember they were saying that you know, the type of caliber individual we're looking for is highly business development focused, because at the time they weren't dishing out leads left, right and center but you had to be able to go into a hospital and set up an office and be able to catch these very busy individuals at times where most people probably didn't want to do it. Like you know, especially especially like teachers, it's very hard to get a hold of, etc. So, very interesting, okay. Business development, then, for you, is something that you cut your teeth on very early on, and I can understand why. Because the international game is if you don't really start with business development, um, you haven't really got a job out there. You know that's pretty much how it was. Even back then would have been oh, that's all it would have been it. It's pure, pure, pure business development. So it does teach you to cut your teeth and eat what you kill and hunt.
Speaker 2:Basically, I know these are all quite aggressive words, but essentially, business development is the lifeblood of any business. If you don't business development, if you don't prospects, if you don't sell yourself or your services to somebody, the likelihood is you're not going to make any money. And it's something that, if you're living in dubai, it's quite expensive, right, and you want to create a certain lifestyle? Um, it's got to be paid for, and you can't stay in dubai, can you, unless you've got some income, because it's not a state like that which is going to support you. So we're obviously sat in the st james's place studio right now. When did this journey happen? How did you get into St James's Place?
Speaker 1:It's a bit of a funny story because I was approached by I guess you call them partnership, recruitment or whatever you call them initially, and I said no because I was very happy where I was.
Speaker 1:Again, you've got to factor in how young I was at the time. How old were you then when they approached you, 26. Okay, and I was. Again, you've got a factor in how young I was at the time. How old were you then when they approached 26? Okay, um, and you know, as a 26 year old um, I was earning very good money and I thought was no, I'm happy. So I said no.
Speaker 1:And then, about a year later, another, a different person, approached me and this person, he was on my level and that's so important because, off air, we were talking about psychology, of how to speak to different people. So this person, he spoke to me in a way that I got it and a lot of my colleagues said the same thing to me. They said, jack, the way you are, go off on your own, you'll make a success of it, you won't need to worry. So took the plunge, um, and you know, when I started with a saint james's place, I knew I would not have any problems with lead generation never. If I could bring in 100 leads a month, I know what I can close from it. Right it. Just I don't have to guarantee myself and I know I can turn that switch on or off.
Speaker 1:I've done that throughout my entire career and I think with business development you need two assets. One, you need the courage, the cojones to go out there and do what's required. And two, you use the term hunt and we also had a bit of a chat off air about doing BSPs or buying businesses. I don't want to do that. Why? Because I see myself as a hunter. It's not a bad term, you can be a hunter, and I think that's my St James Place journey for the first year. I was hunting. I was generating leads left, right and centre and after that first year I knew I've set myself up in terms of don't have to worry.
Speaker 2:Did you go straight into self-employment with St James' Place? Yep. Did you just go straight into self-employment running your own partner practice? Yep, nice, okay, cool. Have you got any really interesting stories about how you proved yourself in a business development setting?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, my first ever success story, I guess, would be this one client from Scotland. I wanted him as a client. I don't know why, do you know when you just see someone on LinkedIn? And he had youtube videos and I just thought you're the type of guy we'd get along.
Speaker 1:Um, and obviously cold calling wasn't working because he was so senior with vodafone right, one of the most senior individuals with vodafone globally. So I noticed they had a tech summit in luxembourg. So I thought to myself I'm flying out there, I don't care, I'll be one of those stalkers. Right, you flew out there, flew out there, got myself a ticket, flew out to luxembourg, um, and I took with me a couple of cans of iron brew, right, yeah, because I know scottish people. They love iron brew, right.
Speaker 1:So he did the opening speech at the um tech summit and I waited for him to get off the stage. But I was stood there with a can of iron brew and as soon as he got off I said have you got 20 minutes? He looked at the iron brew. He said yep, spoke for 20 minutes. He become a client, not there? And then obviously we arranged follow-up meetings etc. But again, I was 25 at the time I was 25 and I just thought well, what's the harm? There's no harm in me doing that worst case scenario. I visited another country and ticked off my list you must.
Speaker 2:You must have visualized that he was going to meet you, greet you and become a client. Then how did you kind of convince yourself that it was a good idea?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Just I just did it. I did it and the thing is in my mind. I thought to myself what's the worst? What's the worst? He's not going to punch me, is he? No, right? What's the worst that could happen? He said no, not interested.
Speaker 1:Fine, I've had a couple of days in Luxembourg, great, and I've had that even when I joined the Wesleyan. They do have a focus on business development, but you've got to go out and do it and, as you mentioned, I work with the teacher segment. First thing I did was I just walked into a bloody school, walked in and said hey, here, let me tell your staff things they don't know. It's not going to cost you anything, right, it was great for me why. The first ever seminar I delivered it was on an inset day. There was 85 members of teaching staff, another 70 odd members of non-teaching staff, right, so potentially there's almost 160 potential new clients. Half of them are married, so if you add that up, it's over 200 potential leads. That was my first ever seminar. I was busy for the entire year just off that one seminar. So there's two sort of stories in terms of business development and obviously I've got tons more.
Speaker 1:But I'm very fortunate now where I don't have to be doing it, I still go out and do it. I enjoy it. I love it. I love the thrill of it. You like the hunt, don't you? I love it, honestly, but I don't need to. That was such a fortunate position to be in and it gives me the ability to do something that's so important, which is manage my time myself. No one takes over my time, so what I mean by that is it's ramadan now. I don't need to work the whole month. When it comes to november, december don't work. When it comes to the summer, holidays don't work, and people think I'm crazy. I was having this chat with anthony, one of my peers, yesterday actually, and I was explaining I don't need to do it. Why? Because when it comes to turning the lead on the lead generation, I do it like that. January and February I had 85 meetings, first meetings. So now I'm all right, but that's how much focus I place on business development.
Speaker 2:Nice. So you are wired um to be super wealthy and super successful. If that was your biggest driving factor in your life, do you do battle with that? Thought up against the thought of spending more time with your family or living your life on your time and means, like you can say to me like you value time over money means like you sounds to me like you value time over money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and do you know what? That is the biggest challenge of anyone that sees the banknotes in this industry, because at first I was making a lot of money. I'm thinking to myself I love this, love this. But you're right, time is the biggest asset and commodity anyone has in this world. You don't know whether you're going to be alive tomorrow. I don't know. We don't know right. What's the point in focusing so much on money if you don't have a life to go with it? So for me, there's three things that take precedent over making money, and they always will. One is my faith.
Speaker 1:I don't work Fridays. I know I'm sat here on a Friday, but this is something that I wanted to do. I don't work Fridays why? Because that's the day for me to go to pray in the mosque, the congregation of prayer. When it's Eid, I take the entire week off. I want to celebrate with my family.
Speaker 1:And that leads me on to number two my family. I have set days where it's just family. That will never change. Every single weekend I go visit my parents. It will never change. Nothing takes over from that. And the third one is myself. I have in my diary gym time, not because I want you know, I want to look great, or it sets me on the right path. I like the fact that I don't have to work before 10 am, so between 8 to 10 I'm at the gym doing whatever I need to do. I've got hobbies. They take priority. Now I've got to that stage because I feel as if I'm content, and that's fine. In my opinion, I don't need to hunt the rest of my life. I'm happy, I'm content, I love the way I've got myself in this sort of mindset.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you how much that is that you require to be able to take your foot off the gas, for instance?
Speaker 1:yeah, um, I think.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it's different for everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just do what there's. Everyone there's key moments in their life. I had three. Um, when I was young, when I started off in the industry, I had two friends that passed away who were my age. One was actually younger, one passed away car accident in saudi arabia and another passed away out of the blue like no, no reason, and that got me thinking. I thought that's affecting me and they were close to me as well. So that was one trigger where I thought I need to change my life. The second trigger for me was my family.
Speaker 1:I didn't like being away At first. I loved it. You know, young person living the life, making money, etc. It was great. But home is home, even now when I go on holiday. Right, I live in Preston, but I was born in Liverpool. I don't miss Preston at all. I miss Liverpool, I miss the house I grew up in. So they were drivers for me. And in terms of monetary value, I said to myself do you know what? If I can guarantee myself £50,000 a year, I'll take my foot off the gas. And I did that quite early in my journey in terms of my servicing, what I get for servicing my clients. So that was, in my head, the figure. If I get to that figure, I'll take my foot off the gas. I'll do things that I'm passionate about.
Speaker 2:And when she reached that figure, did it stay at that figure?
Speaker 1:No, it's still going up, which is it's what happens in this industry, because a hunter, once they've been hunting for so long, guess what? They reap the benefits right.
Speaker 2:How do you balance that then? How do you? Because, when's enough, enough, then for you?
Speaker 1:I'd say I'm there 're there now?
Speaker 1:yeah, what is it? Can I ask? Yeah, in terms of funds under management, yeah, so from a monetary perspective, if I did nothing else, probably 15. Yeah, but I know I'll easily double that in the next two years. But it's what we've said. It's that contentment. Do you feel content? I love it. Yeah, I am, because right now, I'm spending more energy on my family. I'm spending more energy at universities mentoring students. I'm spending more energy on holidays. I'm constantly going on holidays. Right, I'm doing things I love, but that doesn't mean my business is suffering. If anything, my business is doing better. It's crazy how that's come about, but that's, I guess, just my nature of how I deal with my clients, the way in which I treat them, and I'm just getting constant referrals.
Speaker 2:Business development is an area in the UK especially where younger people are struggling to apply that skill and you see it within financial planning, right. You see younger people coming into financial planning even older people coming to financial planning second careerists right. Where they haven't got skills and experience of business development, they're coming in and getting the qualifications and they're not really applying themselves in the way they should be to go out and win new business. Are you seeing this and what are you doing about it to help people?
Speaker 1:I am seeing you and I think it's sad. I think, as an industry, whether you're professional bodies or whether you are a key decision maker, you need to do better. The reason why I say that is because we've got a massive issue, as you know a problem with people coming into the industry. Young people, right. Well, it's all well and good getting them through the door, fine, but help them succeed. I don't think enough is being done about that, business development-wise, because the people who are teaching them. They're teaching them their methods, which is fine, but that might have been 20 years ago.
Speaker 1:It's not the same In this country. We can't pick up the phone and cold call people GDPR. We can't send a LinkedIn message gdpr. We can't knock on the door. Gdpr slash harassment. But there's a lot of things we can't do that we're done back in the day, so that adaptability needs to be understood. So how are we going to help the younger generation? Well, we need to teach them the skills that we had, that they don't have, and this is where psychology plays in.
Speaker 1:Right, little things like well, when you go to a meeting, it's not one shoe fits all, it ain't? I go to some meetings wearing a hoodie. No joke, I go to some meetings wearing a hoodie no joke, I go to some meetings wearing a football top. David, one of my good clients. He's a big Liverpool fan. Why would I rock up the proper scouser in a suit? He would not resonate with me, but in a Liverpool top, he resonates with me. How you talk, how you walk, how you present yourself these are the things that need to be taught, because that's the first stage of business development how you are perceived. Once you break that barrier, then it's okay. What do you do next? And again, old tricks, just wrapped in different color wrapping paper. That does not do the job. Yes, on the outside it might look great, but it's not. Again, I I'm 33, so I'm not that old. I look old, right, but I'm not that old.
Speaker 1:I've lived through being a young advisor and going through all of this, and I'm saying it from my perspective. I didn't like it. I hated it, because what I was being taught was old tricks that just don't work. Whether it's build a connection with an accountant you speak to any accountant They've probably got 14, 15 financial advisors on their books. Build a connection with a solicitor Same thing, no, they don't work anymore. Stop it. Stop it same thing. No, they don't work anymore. Stop it, stop it.
Speaker 1:And I'm saying this because I mentor 12 people and they've all got the same issue a lack of leads. A lack of leads. My young brother, he's just qualified as well. I'm gonna let him suffer for a bit, because I think that is important to build resilience. But believe me when I say, when I spend time with him, it's nothing to do with our knowledge on taxation, knowledge on investments nothing, no, none of that. It's business development. How do I get him out there in front of people? And I think more has to be done about that. And and I'm so passionate about it that I do spend a lot of my time. I go to universities, lecture on business development, on people skills, psychology. That's what I spend my time doing now.
Speaker 2:So we'll have a number of people listening to this podcast who would love to hear your views and opinions on business development, and maybe some hints and tips.
Speaker 1:Is there anything you can share with them today? Yeah, simple, simple things, and I'll share today. As an example, I was taught when I was very, very young when you walk past someone, treat them like an opportunity. Such a simple, but it has so many layers to it. When you walk past someone, treat them like an opportunity, meaning make eye contact, smile, talk. Don't be dismissive, because you don't know who that person is, never know who that person is.
Speaker 1:I was on the train today and it got delayed by an hour. When the announcement came, it got delayed by an hour. They told us to get on the train today and it got delayed by an hour when it got. When the announcement came, it got delayed by an hour. They told us to get on another train and I was stood next to a woman and first thing we did, we made eye contact, we're you know she was probably in her late 50s made eye contact, smiled, all that. Then I said to her listen, love, don't get on that train, because if you get on that train, it'll get you to hou, houston an hour and a half later. Just wait for another half an hour and get on the other train. So whilst we were waiting, we were talking half an hour when we were on the train.
Speaker 1:We spoke for two and a half hours, almost just speaking about everything and anything, and we were actually having a discussion, thinking do you know what? The younger generation they couldn't do that now generation they couldn't do that now. Genuinely they couldn't do that because they have not been brought up the same, and it's not a criticism, it's our fault, in my opinion. So what tips would I give? Make eye contact with people, smile. If you're at the gym, don't wear headphones such a simple change. If you're at the gym, don't wear headphones. Such a simple change. If you're on the train, don't be watching your series, netflix, whatever. Look at people. Speak to people. There's an opportunity there for you and, as I was saying before, I've gained two clients whilst on a plane flying to go on holiday just by talking to people yeah, I think younger generation are talking through mobile, talking through like text, talking through computer games.
Speaker 2:You know, they don't even sit in the same room and play a computer game next to each other, like when I was younger. It's crazy, you know. He, I remember I used to like lug my pc around somebody's house and all my mates did right, we all had pcs. We'd connect them via a local area network to play games against each other in the same room and it was fab and it was interactive and, yeah, we were multi-playing and all of that, but we weren't doing it in separate houses. And I remember when, like, online gaming came through now it's just like they don't have their friends around to play football. They all play football through fifa or they are, you know, and it's just, and they're talking, they're shouting, literally shouting at each other through their, through their for their microphones, playing games against each other.
Speaker 2:There's no, there is no face-to-face contact and it's like, actually I said she'd give us a simple tip. That is like the most simplest tip, isn't? It is like make eye contact with somebody and ask an open question, be inquisitive and find out about them and just just let it naturally flow, because I'm exactly the same right. I can't not sit next to someone on a plane without asking them a question because I love it and I I could sit there for five hours right and and propagate a lot out of asking questions and listening. And I love listening, I just love picking up on things that people are saying because it just does something to my brain. It like rewires my brain. I learn more about somebody. I know then how to ask another question in the future that will lead to a specific type of answer. It's not manipulation at all. I'm never doing it to try to manipulate somebody. I'm doing it because I love learning about people. And you said about psychology, right?
Speaker 1:That's exactly the same thing I'm huge on psychology and do the same thing, right, I'm huge on psychology and you know what we? We need to have an appreciation of generations, right? So what I mean by that is appreciate the generation that were, that had the gift of the gab right, they were sales people, nothing wrong with that but also appreciate the younger generation that don't have that, but they have the knowledge, right? Yeah, do you see what I mean? So you've, we're in our industry I'm speaking about, about our industry. We've got the older generation who have that sales skill they can talk, they can charm but the younger generation, they've got the knowledge. But do you see what I mean? So we need to pass down, yeah, those skills that we've built up.
Speaker 2:One of my favourite business strategists is Daniel Priestley, who does Key Person of Influence, and I'm a firm believer in the Key Person of Influence strategy. It's about also understanding specific niches. We've never had so many niches within society, so many things that you are passionate about personally, that you could turn into your niche market of where you can then go in and sell your services. Let me talk about gaming earlier. You could be so like into gaming, then why don't you become the advisor, the financial planners of the gaming community? I've said this like numerous times. There's one guy actually who keeps contacting me now and telling me what he's doing and how he's trying to do it. Um, and it's about kind of like look, if you're into gaming, for example, right, and that's what you love talking about, then become the financial planner to the gaming community. If you like football, um, whatever hobby it is that you like that individual niche, if you've got something in common with them, get in with that niche and become the financial planner to that community.
Speaker 2:Now, when you're the financial planner to that community, you might start hobnobbing with other key people of influence within there, so it might be the person who does the best events or the best trainers, you know the best people who train those types of people. Or the best computer company who set up the best pcs gaming. So you start to learn who all these key people of influence are. But then by doing that as well, you're building a relationship. We were also solid, so you get considered a key person of influence by the community, but they are then able to actually introduce you as well uh, into others. Right, you start to make introductions. So don't just think about the end consumer being the client. It's also about thinking about who can you connect with, other key people of influence that then give you credibility? Um, is there any kind of tried and tested business development strategies that you could share today with our audience to get them going?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have my own strategies in place and it works for me and I firmly believe it would work for most people if they implement it in their own niche ways. So, for example, you know, implement it in their own niche ways. So, for example, you know I go into a lot of schools. The reason why I go into schools number one I love working with teachers and teaching staff. They're just nice people we get along. I deliver a seminar so I could go into a secondary school, deliver a seminar to 100 members of staff. Out of the 100, half of them will probably be married. There's 150 potential leads for me there straight away. I then offer them surgery days. So rather than, as you will know, contacting them, not getting responses all this, you know your hit rate, so to speak. I offered that same school or it could be a corporate company surgery day.
Speaker 1:I'll literally say I'm going in, I'm sitting there nine till five in your um sort of school office. Every single person has to have a 20 minute meeting with me. I don't give them a choice. So after a couple of days I've spoken to almost 150 people. It's so simple but effective. I'll then walk away thinking, yeah, I've at least helped people or potentially got clients as well. Right, I then offer well-being sessions. Right, and it's not just me standing there saying, oh, if you understand about your pension, you're going to feel better, mentally better. No, it's giving them more. I'll say to that school or the staff you know what I'm going to give you what you need. If I feel as if you need your school needs an NHS-approved counsellor, believe me, I'll get one involved. And I've got someone. If I feel as if you need a yoga instructor for your staff for a day, I've got someone. If I feel as if do you know what? This is out of my area of expertise, but your staff members are quite young. They need to understand more about mortgages, I'll bring someone for you. I'm offering them a lot for you, I'm offering them a lot. What's my objective? Well, two, I care about people. That's what you have to do. You have to be passionate about helping people because, believe me, they see right through you if you don't. And number two, of course, I want clients. I'm not going to lie about that and I get clients. That's the strategy that I have.
Speaker 1:Then it's moving on to social media. I'll be honest, I wasn't that great at social media. I've always had a very good LinkedIn, but other areas I'd neglect because I just thought, oh no, I can't be bothered, I'm not creative like you are, sam, but now I've got a marketing team. I'm out there, I'm doing things that are out of my comfort zone, and I know how important that is. And then it's the indirect business development that comes from all of that as well. So what I mean by indirect you mentioned it earlier actually it's doing things and it's the slow burners that are so effective. Right, it's doing things where you know there's not going to be an immediate gain, but in the long run it comes off. In the long run it does come off. I'll do a lot of that, a lot of that. Again, going back to the woman I met on the train we exchanged numbers, but not once did we speak about finance. She's seen the person.
Speaker 2:I am first, but I know where that's going because my experience is telling me that's indirect one of the things I definitely would say is the if you're going to sit down and you're going to talk to people, right, you need to be able to. You need to be able to then drive them somewhere. They're going to continue to build a relationship with you off um without even picking up the phone to you. Yeah, you know. So that's what I love about podcasting side of things.
Speaker 2:What I love about LinkedIn and social marketing is that I'll send you my LinkedIn requests. Now, you may not pick the phone up to them again, but if they're logging into LinkedIn, they're going to see you, they're going to hear what you're about. They're going to hear your value. So, when it does come to the point where they want to buy at some point or they want advice, or whatever it might well be, who are're going to go to? They're going to go to you, right, and they're going to remember that meaningful conversation that you had. That wasn't always about financial advice. They just go. Oh great, I knew he's a financial advisor, but now I can see the different side to him on on linkedin but underpinning all of that is you need to show your personality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you haven't got a personality, go out and get one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, build one. My favorite client I don't mind saying this, I love her to bits. Allison right, her, his sister and her dad had a financial advisor on her dad's 96. So they've had a financial advisor in the family for about 50 years the same one.
Speaker 1:When I met allison this is probably about three years ago, four years ago, right, she just wanted advice on teachers pensions and that was my specialty. So I gave her it. I knew she had all the investments, but not once did I push her. I said she'll come to me when she's ready. She was telling me she's not happy because the guy doesn't respond. She's had all these issues. You know. She doesn't know what to do with xyz. I thought, okay, I'll give you help, I'll, I'll advise you, I'll help your dad with whatever he needs. But I was doing that with the goodness of my heart. She's seen the person I was.
Speaker 1:She still didn't become a client. I never pushed her. I'd seen I would see her twice a year. Guess what? She ended up becoming my client. She sent me a whatsapp. I wish I had my phone on me saying it was the best, best decision she's ever made, because I care about her. She sends me photos post-operation right of her neck. She had a neck operation. But that's how I treat my clients and for any advisor, you need to be showing your personality, your human touch, before you do anything. It's so powerful. These are lifelong relationships. At the end of the day, she's become a client, her dad's become a client, her sister's become a client, her neighbor's become a client, just by number one being me, but two not pushing her too quick.
Speaker 2:It's also when you break down the concept of people by people. Yeah, you know it's not just a word, mate, like say it to yourself, people by people, and then explore what that word is and really go into the detail of the fact that are you selling yourself?
Speaker 1:It's so powerful. In any industry, people buy into people All the time, not the product, no, no.
Speaker 2:Never, industry. People buy into people all the time. Not the product, no, no, never. The product products is secondary. Without a shadow of a doubt, mate, people buy people. And if you don't understand that, write that word down, spend an hour analyzing it and by the end of that piece of you know, put a piece of paper in front of you and by the end of that hour, make sure you've written down some things about yourself that I told my students honestly, they laughed, yeah.
Speaker 1:I told my students look, if none of you have a personality, go out and get one, build one. Yeah. Go out and get one, yeah, because you ain't getting anywhere in life without it.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I love that mate, and there are multiple kind of like new ways to develop business, right. So, like goodness, let's look at you, get computers in gaming. You could twitch, couldn't you? And stream and stuff like that. Like how many people could you, how many people could you stream to? How could you get, how could you sponsor somebody else's stream? How could you interview some toppy gamers about what they do, the games they're playing, but also how they manage their money?
Speaker 1:honestly, business development has no limits. It has no limits, and I'll give you a strange example, which was something I still can't wrap my head around. Right, I know someone that has bought virtual land, right? Yeah, so we've heard, we've all heard, of cryptocurrency, but there's buying virtual land now, which is a thing in the metaverse metaverse, yeah, yeah, so this person bought virtual land and, rather than hosting dungeons and dragons with this person, used to host Dungeons and Dragons in the basement of their home. They host Dungeons and Dragons on the virtual land. Now. It makes no sense to me. But what this person has done, they've monetized it by charging people. It's insane. Now, I'm just using that as a random example of business development because it has no limits, right? I've done a spin class at my gym at 5 am because there's 10 doctors who wanted financial advice on nhs pension. So I said, yeah, I get you, you're all bloody busy, let's do a spin class. And whilst we're spinning, we're talking. It was difficult for me because I'm not a spinner, but that was business development.
Speaker 1:Right Now, I think the core, in my opinion this is my opinion only the core issue is our industry are set up or doing enough. And that may or may not be controversial, but that's my opinion, because I think we can be, as an industry, doing a lot more right. The two issues are how do we get younger people into the industry? It's not just younger people, more women, and it's not just women as well. It's different statuses. How many financial planners do you see from Tower Hamlets, but how many do you see from Cambridge? We can't just be so focused on one area and dismiss the rest. That's the first barrier. The second barrier is once they're through the door, how do we help them? And not enough is being done, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Do you know Emmanuel Asoukro, so he's from Tower Hamlet and he's focuses on the black community and he's ended up on TV and all sorts. It's amazing Personality on TV and he's a financial planner. So I think you're absolutely right People from different statuses.
Speaker 1:I'll give you an example about status, because this is a funny one. When I was at the Wesleyan, one of the first clients I signed up was based in Bootle different statuses. I'll give you an example about status, because this is a funny one. Uh, when I was at the wesleyan, one of the first clients I signed up, um, was based in bootle. He owned a convenience store in bootle in liverpool. Um and my meetings were being observed by by my area manager. So when I told my area manager where it was, my area manager parked up an asda a couple miles away and said pick him up because that area is rough. So he didn't want. He was all comfortable. When we got to the meeting location, we had to go through an alleyway, up the fire escape to get into the apartment. I was all right with it because I grew up around those areas, right, but I could tell my area manager was oh, he even made a joke do I need to wear um, you know, a vest, meaning bulletproof vest? I signed that client up and it taught my area manager a bit of a lesson, because you can't judge people based on the area. The, because this person had 10 businesses, had multiple properties, was worth over 2.5 million, but he was in boot.
Speaker 1:So we, as an industry, we can advocate as much as we want. Financial advice is available to everyone. It is, but I don't think that's how it's taught. No, right, I don't think that's how we operate, whereas I believe we should and I'm very passionate about that. Yes, financial advice is available to everyone, but when we get youth into our industry or women into our industry, we can't be selective about where they're from. We can't run events purely in affluent areas and forget all the other areas. No, because how, how are we meant to advocate that when we're not doing that? Do you see what I mean? Yeah, I understand, I fully understand, and I'm very passionate about that because another example one of the students that I've been mentoring at university.
Speaker 1:He's 20 years old, studying business right. He messaged me a couple of weeks ago on whatsapp. I say to them just message me as much as you want. He received compensation payout from amazon. He goes I need financial advice. But I would never have thought of seeking advice if I didn't know you, because I thought financial advice was only for the wealthy. I'm not wealthy. He's working three jobs just to get through uni. But he's approached me and I love that. I love the feeling that I've made a difference.
Speaker 2:So he had some money, did he. He came into some money.
Speaker 1:He came into 10 grand. Okay, but for him he's a 20 year old kid that was a lot of money right, okay, so you didn't dismiss him for that 10,000 pounds.
Speaker 1:I didn't dismiss him at all. I gave him my time. I told him him no, don't invest it. Why? Because he's actually now looking to become a financial advisor. Okay, because we've been talking so much. He wants to finish his degree, he wants to do his courses and he needs money. He's got rent to pay, so it's not suitable for him to invest. But I love the fact that my conversations with him have made him believe that advice is available to him as well. Yeah, I love that yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:Sometimes the conversations I've had, the byproduct of the ones that I've dismissed, have been like the most powerful and I could have my most successful like not successful my biggest client, monetary wise, right how that came about.
Speaker 1:I had a meeting with a teacher from school she's, she was 24, she didn't have many, she just wanted to know how can she buy her first home. I had four meetings with her because she she just wanted clout and protection, lifetime. I says, well, nothing came of it, right, but I made sure she understood financial advice is available to you, don't think it's not? She referred me to her parents. Her dad become my client. He then referred me to his parents, so the grandparents both become my clients and they're my biggest clients. That come about because I treated the first person I spoke to with absolute respect, in the sense that I'm going to treat you the same way I treat someone with millions. I will give you the same advice level of advice it's a really good model mate.
Speaker 2:It's a really really good approach and that's exactly how younger people should be doing it. They shouldn't be kind of just constantly looking like the people who are 55 plus or something. They should be looking at people around their own age and bring in financial advice and financial uh planning into that generation, especially with the trillions that are being passed down generation to generation over the internet and you know the uh, the wealth, the wealth transfer that's going on the social media influencers.
Speaker 1:Right, I've got an influencer who's a client I mean she won't mind me saying this, she's right. Pain in the backside, right, because they're busy. They do so much right Now. If you think about it, when we give advice to youth I'm talking 18 to 30, their focus is spending money. We've been through that because I was there spending money. But there will come a time in their life when they need advice. Who are they going to turn to, like influences probably? Well, they're going to turn to one of two people, right? People that are so out there on social media because that's all they know, or it'll be someone that's recommended through a friend. Now, as an industry, we need to be ready for that because they're earning serious money.
Speaker 2:We need to meet them where they are. I think genuinely social media is where these people are. We need to meet them in social media. So, when we talk about influencers, the old influencer marketing strategy or the influencer piggyback marketing strategy is a strong one. Um, I went to this influencer marketing agency recently because we got an app and we wanted to be able to get this app in front of the right people. And there are tons of these influencer marketing agencies right where you can literally pick and choose any influencer with any audience.
Speaker 2:So I started looking at it, thinking like, well, who do we want to use it? And this is different. It's a other way around. We wanted people like in their 50s to be using it right, and I didn't realize there's such an influencer market of people in their 50s and 60s and their followers are like 50s and 60s and they're growing them. It's a massive market that's growing on YouTube no-transcript generation and it's like there's a whole load of influences. It's not influencer marketing, it's not massively expensive either, and like if I can just build a relationship with a load of like influencers, you don't have to be a financial influencer yourself. You can just piggyback off the back of loads of influencers that are out there and you become this kind of trusted brand that associates with them.
Speaker 1:It's making sure we're ready for it and the reason why I say that right the influencer that I have. Initially she took advice from a scam artist.
Speaker 1:Oh right yeah, now the scam artist is very, very prevalent on TikTok on Instagram Huge following I'm talking millions of followers. He has this Telegram group. He basically scams people, right, and he's still on there now and I just don't understand how. So he's telling people to invest in this meme coin, that coin and he'll teach people for a fee, blah, blah, blah all this nonsense. That person and his group is so out there on social media that they've got more of a following than any financial planner this is the thing, right?
Speaker 2:so if you're a financial planner, you work with top influencers and you're saying I'm here to protect your followers because they're getting scammed, yeah, I'm regulated, this is what I do. This is the company regulated by the fca. I'm not going to be giving any advice, right, but what I'm going to be doing is helping people understand when to recognize a scam, what financial planning is, how it can protect your money and the realities of investing. Can I talk to your followers? And that's a good good thing. Right, it's a good thing. And that's the thing. How do you position it in a way to be protecting people?
Speaker 1:it's not as easy as you make it out. The easiest example was in the news literally a couple of months ago Svengård and Ericsson. Who passed away? Did he die today?
Speaker 2:I didn't see that. That was a while ago. You've been in Dubai too long already.
Speaker 1:I didn't even watch the news in Dubai, but Sven-Goran Eriksson passed away and it came out that, as a state, his financial advisor had been scamming him. This was a regulated person, bloody hell, who was recommended to him by his representatives. Right Now, if you're talking that level these agencies you can imagine how many financial planners are approaching them number one, right? Do you reckon they are? Yes, I know they are, because the agency one of the agencies that I've managed to build a relationship with they said themselves they've had 30 other meetings with advisors. So you're actually approaching these agencies. I didn't approach this one, my, this is my client's agency, right? Okay, so obviously they've seen the work that I've done with my client and they wanted to speak to me because they've had so many other conversations with other advisors and they've just not felt comfortable. Yeah, right now, going back onto social media and using my client as an example, before she took advice, she had invested loads of money through this person on social media, lost it, most of it, 90% of it lost. It wasn't regulated. She had no idea what she was doing.
Speaker 1:A lot of young people are in the same boat. They're not. They've never been educated about money. I was. When I was younger. I was told you know the value of money in the sense that make sure you take care of it. They haven't been told about right now. I think, again, if we're moving forward as an industry, we've got to be aware of that as well. So I've been a lot more uh in front of the camera on tick tock on uh instagram. I've got a marketing agency that I work with. They're pushing it out there and you know what it's working, because I'm getting more leads from younger people just asking me questions, which is fine. Have you been? Have you put your own podcast together yet or not? Um, I actually have.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, good man, you should do and, uh, the podcast actually has come about because we all know steven bought this diary of a ceo right. In my opinion, it started off as a great podcast. The problem I have with it now? Everything is from the lens of either a millionaire or billionaire. It's detached from real life. So my own podcast that I've been doing, I'm speaking to business owners who are the common person, just a person that's running an agency or running a recruitment company or running their own. But they live amongst us and we're just talking about the real life truths of business.
Speaker 2:The stuff that's actually in grasp, Absolutely yeah. Someone looking and going like I wish I was doing 150 grand a year or whatever. I wish I was doing this or I wish I had 10 people work for me or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I get it it's not someone on a podcast that's earning half a half a billion quid a year. Yeah, that's saying to everyone never, ever buy a home because I'm not doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, man, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that, jack, listen, can I bring this to a close? But I've really, really, really super enjoyed talking to you today and I feel like I want to continue our relationship outside of the podcast. So let's kind of connect and let's talk and let's share some ideas, because I feel like we're on the same page and you've energized me today. That and you've energized me today. That's good to hear. Yeah, you have man big time. So for a Friday afternoon going into the weekend, I really, really value your time. I really appreciate it. I love your moral compass, mate. I think it's pointing in the right direction and I think SJP are lucky to have you.
Speaker 1:You know what I've enjoyed it as well, and I appreciate you giving me this chance to speak my thoughts, and you know what. The last thing that I want to say is as an industry, let's do better. That's it. Let's do better. I love that. Thanks, great Thank you.
