Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures, and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles, to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners, and back-office staff all have their own stories to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast serves as a platform for them to discuss their personal and professional journeys. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing, all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it will educate and spark a conversation within the industry on topics that may not be openly discussed. If you're considering a career as a financial adviser or are curious about learning more about this exciting sector, we encourage you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton wealth, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting as a trainer for a leading product provider in the UK, and he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources, such as this podcast, to educate those who are further seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Career Tips From Successful Financial Planners Part 2 - Golf Day
Welcome to Day 2 of the Financial Planner Life Golf Day – where birdies, bogeys, and brilliant business insights go hand in hand.
You can watch this episode on youtube or spotify! here
This round sees Michael Yuille CFP™ (aka Mr #ChickenTuesday) and Sam Oakes take on Carla Brown (President of the PFS) and Guy Skinner (Citygate Financial Planning) in a best-of-seven match play showdown — with caddies, clubs, and competitive spirit fully loaded.
What starts as a light-hearted game quickly turns into a meaningful conversation about building a career in financial planning, winning business, and doing the right thing — both on and off the course.
🏌️♂️ Today’s Golfers & Caddies:
- Michael Yuille CFP™ – France-based Certified Financial Planner™, U.K. pension specialist, and U.S. investment adviser helping UK/US expats retire in France. Known for viral LinkedIn content under #ChickenTuesday.
- Sam Oakes – Host of the Financial Planner Life Podcast, producer of content for the financial services, and founder and seller of a 7-figure turnover financial planning recruitment company. Expert in video-first marketing and passionate about attracting fresh talent to the profession.
- Carla Brown – President & Chair of the Personal Finance Society and MD of Oakmere Wealth Management. Champion of inclusivity and a major voice for women in financial planning.
- Guy Skinner – Director at Citygate Financial Planning and patron of Stand By Me, a bereavement counselling charity. Specialises in protection-led planning and advising legal professionals.
🎤 You’ll also hear from:
- Paul Bradley – Founder of Chiltern Hills Financial Planning, passionate about values-based, lifestyle-led advice.
- Jay Dhaliwal – Chartered Financial Planner and Young Achiever of the Year 2023, representing the next generation of high-impact advisers.
- Paul Taylor FPFS – Chartered Planner, Certified Coach and Wealth Management Coach, helping planners grow personally and professionally.
- Vikash Kanani – Managing Director of Chatsworth Wealth Management Ltd, building a people-first advice business with empathy and integrity.
🎯 In this episode, we explore:
- Why referrals are still the #1 business development tool
- How protection advice opens the door to long-term client relationships
- The key to building a client bank under 45
- Carla’s mission to attract more women into financial planning
- How to get comfortable with asking for referrals (without sounding salesy)
- Why personality matters just as much as qualifications
- Building your brand on LinkedIn through authenticity and humour
- Succession, hiring the right people, and getting your culture right
❤️ Charity Spotlight:
This episode also highlights Stand By Me, a bereavement support charity for children and young people, with Guy Skinner as a proud patron. If you enjoyed the episode and want to give back, please consider making a donation:
Be sure to follow Financial Planner life on YouTube for extra content about career development within Financial Planning.
Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or podcast production.
Want to appear on the Financial Planner Life podcast? drop Sam a message.
Welcome to the Financial Planner Life Golf Day. Myself and Mike Yule are taking on Guy Skinner and Carla Brown. Let's get going, okay? So let's check out the golfers, and first up is mike yule. He is an international certified financial planner and he knows a thing or two about chickens hashtag chicken tuesday and his caddy today is yours truly sam oaks, host of the financial planner life podcast, an all-round handsome bloke. And our opponents are Carla Brown, president and chair of the personal finance society. She is also a certified financial planner and managing director of Oakmere wealth management, and her caddy today is Guy Skinner, director and financial planner at Citygate financial planning. You'd have heard him on podcast. You'd have seen him on the stage. He's our man who knows protection, and they are playing a best of seven match play and Carla gets two shots per hole. Let's see how they get on ready On the tee seven foot chicken, oh track draw.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:Oh, unlucky, awful. See his chicken feet getting in the way. Couldn't see it. God, the pressure's immense, isn't?
Speaker 3:it the pressure is huge. I thought that was going then.
Speaker 2:Straight for the trees.
Speaker 1:Unlucky Chicken Tuesday. Hashtag Chicken Tuesday. Hashtag Chicken Tuesday. Hashtag Chicken Tuesday. I mean, you've got a chicken on your head when? For those that don't know, what's that all about, mate?
Speaker 2:Well, linkedin's become a great source for me for referrals and marketing my brand, if you like. And I posted a picture one day of some chickens that we have in France and people loved it, and so I've sort of run with it. And people loved it, and so I've sort of run with it. It wasn't planned, it wasn't something I strategized on. It was a picture of the chickens lined up. I posted it on LinkedIn. People loved it. It's gone from there.
Speaker 1:I mean, linkedin's a great source of lead generation. Yeah, are we talking about, you know, chickens actually generating new clients, laying new golden eggs, or what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually that's where it's come, and it's bizarre because a lot of people who I'll speak to will say the first thing they'll chat to me about is chickens. Oh, I love the picture of your chickens. Or, you know, I love the hashtag, or I love what you're doing. Great, it's an icebreaker, you know, and to make an omelette, you've got to crack a few eggs. I like that. That's what we do.
Speaker 1:Smashing, smashing. So sometimes in financial planning things go out of bound. What you do is you pick your ball back up and you just reset. Good shot, oh hey. Oh, it's going in. Nice one, carla. I like that, mike. What are we talking about here, mate? What's going on? Just a little chicken run.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, Bit of right to left. Try and get it on the dance floor.
Speaker 1:Nice, oof, that's a lovely shot. Jesus, come on, partner. That was very good, thank you. Thanks, that was a great shot. Well done, mate. I've played before you have you? Eh, come on Before me, mate. Ah, come on, you fooled me, mate.
Speaker 3:Oh, too hard.
Speaker 1:That's a hell of a shot, oh hello.
Speaker 2:Get this ringer Ooh.
Speaker 3:Go on, pop him in. If I miss now, I'm be really nice one, yeah eventually oh, I mean, that's ultimate.
Speaker 1:Just back of it, slap it in you love to inspire other people obviously the president of the PFS. Yeah, why do you get involved in that? Why is that so important to you?
Speaker 3:Wow. So I think you know I've been doing this job a long time now and I think I've learned a lot from other people during that period. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. So for me it started out as a case of trying to give something back to the next generation. That's why I got involved with the Power Panel, originally helping to create content, shape the future of financial planning, and that kind of evolved into being asked to join the board as a member, director and then president and chair most recently. But it feels as though, you know, we're at a bit of a turning point in the PFS.
Speaker 1:We're trying to become more inclusive, we're trying to become more member focused, and it's something where I feel like I make a real difference so if you just sit down with somebody you know they're thinking about becoming a financial planner, yeah, what would be your inspiring speech to get them on board?
Speaker 3:I would just tell them what amazing career it's been. You know it's. It's the ability to change people's lives, to create your own um, create your own business, your own career, having control of your, having control of your own diary, control of your own earnings. Where else can you get that?
Speaker 1:What do you think we can do to attract more women to the financial planning profession?
Speaker 3:I think we need more female role models talking about what a great career it is. I think you know it's a job If you've got women who want to have a family, they want to take time out, men and women. You know it's a job that allows you to do that. You've got complete flexibility. So we just need to be talking about it more. I think actually what we need to do is be talking about it earlier in people's careers, so people tend to come to it as a second career. Particularly women will come to it further down the line. What I want to do is get us into sixth form universities you know, further education and be talking about financial planning as a career for those early starters.
Speaker 1:I also think the character traits of women high empath, great relationship builders. Whenever I talk to women that are really super successful within financial planning, they can start waxing lyrical just how well suited women are to financial planning and just how sort of underserviced women actually are. And with a huge amount of wealth transferring hands, I think it's like 53 of all millionaires by 2027 yeah are going to be yeah um, women, yeah right, and 60 of all wealth is in the hands of women by the end of this year, apparently by the end of this year.
Speaker 1:So the dynamics are shifting. The dynamics are changing. I had a couple of ladies um on the podcast. Quite recently they set up a mummy's group on facebook, right, so the post some of the content in mummy's group. They're also meeting women at the actual school gates and they were like well, how are we going to generate clients? And quite literally, on a hyper-local basis, they're meeting women absolutely everywhere and women are coming to them. Once they know that they're financial advisors, they're coming to them. But I'll tell you what they also do. They refer a hell of a lot more than guys do they do.
Speaker 3:Women will talk about things like that. Guys tend to be a bit more closed about things, but women are quite happy to share. When they've had good service or they've found someone that they work really well with or that they've gelled with, they will talk about it. They'll talk to their friends and we talk about building a power team around them. So we work with women and other financial professionals to build a power team around our clients and that works really well.
Speaker 1:I also think as well women will look out for their partners. So let's say, for example, husband's not quite keen on talking about their own personal finances. They might feel a bit uncomfortable about doing that. Women tend to will go and seek out the support that a guy needs, for example. So, if they are seeing financial advisors, they are hearing the conversations. They're going to bring them along to somebody who's a little less intimidating, perhaps to sit down with them both to have that conversation.
Speaker 1:So I've heard that a lot as well. Yeah, a lot of wives are referring husbands into financial planners and that's where, when you talk to financial planners, you think female financial planners, what? It's all just women you're dealing with. It's like well, no, actually it's like about 50 50 it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I definitely agree with that. I mean, I've got clients where you have met the the wife first of all, the part, the female partner first of all, and then they've brought the husband in at later date and I think there's been this misconception for ages that women don't take financial advice or women don't invest. Yeah, load of rubbish. Women do invest. They will take risks. They just learn differently. You know, women want to, um, understand more. They'll ask more questions before they make a decision. So it's, it's for, you know, and I think female financial advisors probably understand that a little bit more, whereas you know this is sweeping generalization, but men can mansplain things a little bit, which can put females off we can gonna hit the ball, mate.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, missing that. Just think of it as an egg. Oh, look at that. Come on, I'm glad you're on my team, jesus. It's a lovely shot. That's immense. Go on, it's a hole in bloody one, isn't it? Oh my God, what a shot, mate. That was quality. Come on, partner. Probably the best shot I've ever seen.
Speaker 3:Feeling the pressure Go on.
Speaker 1:Nice Carry carry. Carry.
Speaker 3:I got to hit it. How are you feeling?
Speaker 1:Sam Alive. I've never felt more alive in my life. This is going to be it.
Speaker 3:That's what happens when you wear Vans on a golf course.
Speaker 1:That was a bit slippery.
Speaker 4:Get down.
Speaker 2:Hmm, too hard. Yeah, shot Down ball.
Speaker 3:Just go from one side of the green to the other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, get your money's worth.
Speaker 3:Every step's in.
Speaker 2:Good legs, good legs, good legs Do you want me to go again? Yeah, go on, finish him off. Oh yeah, there we go, it's in the hole. Well done, birdie. Dad. Chicken gets a birdie. Was that a?
Speaker 3:birdie, was it Lovely Birdie? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when it comes to business development, let's talk about that. So quick fire what three things do you think people should think about or do around business development to help them kickstart their careers within financial planning?
Speaker 4:I'm going to cheat.
Speaker 4:I'm going to say referrals, referrals, referrals Is by far and away the best way that you can grow a business, and I think there's too much of a People say that they've got a grubby feeling, asking for referrals, and that doesn't make any sense to me. We know that we can help every single person that we potentially speak to, so why should you feel embarrassed about asking somebody and they don't have to have been a client for years to give you a referral. It could just be somebody that's not even a client yet. That's a prospect. But if they've enjoyed the experience to that point in time and they've gained value from just being asked insightful questions, being helped to think about things in a different way to how they'd thought about their life previously, that's added value, even if there's not even a financial product at the end of it. So it makes sense that I can ask that person if they'd like one of their friends or family or somebody that's got a similar situation to themselves, to have that experience. So don't shy away from it. I love it.
Speaker 1:So, when it comes to referrals, obviously people do struggle with that. Maybe it's to do with when's the best time to ask for a referral, so what do you think about that?
Speaker 4:I will simply ask you if I can show you value with what we're about to do. You've been open-minded enough to come along and speak to me. The only thing I really ask is that if you did find it really helps the fact that you're working referral to referral to referral, Then, hours down the line, once you've had a couple of meetings, you can simply ask the person because they would have agreed. That's a reasonable statement to make. You can ask them if they found it valuable and when they agree to that, they know what's coming next. It's the fact that you want them to introduce you to somebody else.
Speaker 1:And do you ever get embarrassed by that?
Speaker 4:No, I mean, it's not that I'm completely shameless, but it's just that I know I can help the next person and even if it's that they walk away, they don't become a client. I'm going to leave them with something that's valuable enough that it's going to make a difference, and when you always ask for a referral.
Speaker 1:How often do you convert?
Speaker 4:My numbers are about 70% conversion rates. You've got a warm relationship to start with. They know what they're expecting because they've been teed up a little bit by the person that's introduced them, so it's that little bit easier.
Speaker 1:So, as for a hundred referrals, you're going to convert 70 of those. Yes, that's not bad business, is it no, just from asking a question, yeah, I guess what you're saying there referral, referral, referral is the quickest way to business development Makes sense then yeah, I think there's a lot of distractions out there and there's a lot of people that think there's maybe easier ways of doing it.
Speaker 4:Social media, um, could drive a lot, you know, a boatload of inquiries, but I think you're 50 of the way there if it's a warm introduction and they knew somebody else that's already had the benefit of your experience. There's that trust that you've already got 50 of what you need before you before you even open your mouth, um, and that's difficult to replicate in any other way and so what about you?
Speaker 3:I mean you, you've obviously spent a lot of time getting all your qualifications, etc. Over the years. Um, what do you think it is that clients look for in an advisor? Is it the credentials, the qualifications? Are they looking for someone they can talk to or a mate they can go down the pub with?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think I think it's a bit of both. You know my my stance on that is personality comes through an awful lot in planning. But I think if you can have best of both worlds maybe be as qualified as you can be, but also have that personality, you know, down the pub with someone yeah, that's great, isn't it? But you need to be able to get on with people, and I want people to have the confidence that I've got the technical ability through the exams and the qualifications, but also get on with me, because I think if you don't get on with people, it's not going to work as a long-term relationship. So I think there's a bit of both in that answer, for get as qualified as you can technically and also be personable. And I think what I like to try and get across in a lot of my LinkedIn posts is the humour. You know if you can have a laugh with someone.
Speaker 2:Definitely it certainly breaks the ice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's certainly coming across in your posts. Good, good, that's the idea. Yeah, I think you're right. People buy people, don't they?
Speaker 2:They do, yeah, don't they? They do, yeah, yeah. And I have a bit of a joke with some of the guys. I say, when a client comes on a team's call, if their camera's off but I can hear them. I'll say, oh, I can hear you, but I can't see you. Just just flick your camera on. And then they'll flick the camera on and I'll go no, no, no, turn it off, turn it off. And if you get a laugh, you know you're gonna get on yeah, and if you get a stern face, you think oh, this is going to be hard work.
Speaker 2:So yeah, having that ability to sort of bring a bit of humour in and having that ability to make someone smile and laugh and feel relaxed, I think it's and it is something you can work on. You know my guy I used to work with in South Africa years ago. He was really dry Right and he practised and he, you know it was part of his role to try and come out of his shell a bit and he did and I think it helped him as an advisor.
Speaker 3:so I think it certainly helps put people at ease, doesn't it if? You've got that humour if you can build that rapport definitely and it doesn't always happen straight away.
Speaker 1:It can take time where do you want to hit? Where's the bloody tree in the Jesus Right? So update on the scores. Mike Yule, sam Oakes. Two up, obviously, obviously, chicken Tuesday man over there. Guy Skinner, carla Brown unfortunately, big fat doughnuts. We're about to mix things up. I'm about to tee one off with Guy Skinner, let's go. So I've been practicing. Oh my god, is that the right way around? Yeah, I've been. I've been practicing a little bit at Topgolf in Dubai. Paul Taylor, what am I looking like?
Speaker 2:Remarkably average.
Speaker 1:It's taking a long time. It's because I hate this, it's pressure isn't it.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize how much pressure it actually is.
Speaker 4:I take it honestly. Welcome to my world, Sam. That's the best fresh air shot I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:Give it a haircut. Whoa yeah, what a hit. Well done, hit the tree. Was that a driver or a tree wood? Come on, do you play golf? No, ok, good.
Speaker 4:I mean, I don't think I can even swing it right the whole way.
Speaker 2:There we go. Imagine if you started when you were 9 or 10. Right, we're playing from there, aren't?
Speaker 1:we. So, mike, you're sneaking in with a bit of branding Chicken Tuesday, trying to smash this off the tee. Oh, f**k, f**k to it. I'm giving up golf. I'm actually giving up golf.
Speaker 2:That is literally going that's in the water give me that weapon, you, I'm done.
Speaker 1:Get away from that you so we're taking a break from the golf just to talk about something a little bit more serious. There's an amazing charity called stand by me, which is a bereavement counselling charity, and Guy Skinner is a patron of it and you're doing a little bit of charity raising and hopefully, if you're enjoying the episode, maybe you can click the link in the comments and make a donation. But, guy, can you just tell us a little bit about Stand by Me, the charity, the great work that they actually do, and why we're looking for donations?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we support children in North Harts and Steve Village. They will have been bereaved relatively recently, referred to us by adolescent and mental health services. These are children that are struggling. Examples I could give you. Where I've volunteered We've got children that just fall asleep at school. They can't think about anything apart from the person that's died. They get told all sorts of things like the person has just gone away and they don't actually come to terms with the fact that the person's died. But we give them the space and the hope to grow around their grief and know that life goes on and that tomorrow will be a better day I love it.
Speaker 1:We're certainly, here at financial plan of life, going to be making a donation to that fantastic charity and we urge that you do the same. Now back to the. So Mike, got you into a bit of a tricky spot here, mate. Yeah, what's the crack? How are you going to get out of this one?
Speaker 2:Well, it's about 180 to go. I could have a go at that, but this is where a bit of course management comes in. See, if I duff it, I'm in the trouble. So I'm just going to play a little shot out to the side, get on the fairway, play safe and then have a better third shot into the green Cock-a-doodle-doo. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Oh, that was it. I could have taken that.
Speaker 2:Go on, get up there. Nice, get on up.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's powerful.
Speaker 4:Well done, well done Mike.
Speaker 2:Sit oh. Mike hit the ball, Yulee oh.
Speaker 1:Good luck, carla.
Speaker 2:Well done, thank you.
Speaker 1:Oh, halfway there. So going into the fourth hole, it's now 2-1, with Guy and Carla pulling one back. So all to play for in hole four. So as financial planners, then, guy, you spend a lot of time with people, probably not even charging them, maybe giving things away, I guess, for free. Is that the case?
Speaker 4:For sure Every first meeting. There's no expense to it. So I wouldn't use the word free, because then it seems like it's got no value but it's always at our expense, it seems. Use the word free because then it seems like it's got no value but it's always at our expense. It seems like it's given away, but the reality is most people actually come on board as a client, so you kind of just factor it into your pricing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, there's loads of other things you can give away, though it's not just like giving away to clients. You can give away time to other advisors, you can help with people's training, you can pick up the phone to people if they're struggling, um, and that's what I think is great about this group. We've got quite a supportive network. We're on WhatsApp. We'll help each other and it's a great support network, and that's all free time, but you get a lot out of it as well?
Speaker 1:Do you find that you do get a return on investment when you do things like an altruistic mindset?
Speaker 4:Without a doubt, it's not always directly. It can happen indirectly. It might be that you've got better recruitment as a result of it, or you've just got a bit more notoriety, and they do pay off over time. But look it's. The act of being selfless is actually quite a selfish thing. Sometimes, as well, it does make you feel good about yourself, so it depends how you value it and how you think about it.
Speaker 1:I had a financial planner recently on the podcast who set himself up one day a week in a community library. Just by doing that, he became the community financial planner, the go-to person, and, off the back of it, over the over the years that he's been doing it, he's just been generating clients left, right and center because he's known as that person who's adding value in the community. And that all started by giving it away yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4:It's a great model. I think it's something that far more advisors could adopt. But clearly, if you're just starting out, you can't give away too much for free. You've got to put food on the table and things like that. But um, what comes around goes around. There's definitely karma in this world, okay so how do they balance that?
Speaker 1:a new financial planner they're thinking like they want to get in front of people, they want to get talking to people but they're nervous about perhaps they're worrying about putting food on the table you've got to see the long game.
Speaker 4:So, uh, it will, it will come back to you, but you've got to have some level of urgency. It's it's a strategy alongside other things that you would do, so you might have a reasonable number of clients already some money coming in, and then start developing pro bono workshops in the community. It's something I've actually done. Earlier this year I did, I did the first um community event, but it was. It was again. I didn't actually make it free, it was for a charitable donation. I don't want people to think of it as free and also, if there's the commitment that they've got to pay, then they're more likely to turn up I think boundaries is really important when you're starting out.
Speaker 1:Probably isn't it knowing what you should charge for, what you shouldn't charge for, how to position your services, though it doesn't feel like you're giving it away for free, because when it's free, maybe it devalues the level of service you're actually providing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, without a doubt, and again, as post-RDR, one of the difficult things our service used to be priced by the providers effectively. Now that we've got control because we can charge the fee that we decide, I think a lot of people can actually underestimate what the cost of delivery of advice is and they're undercharging. And you've got to take a look at what are your costs and work it out from the kind of I just want the profession to be better at what we do. I want everyone to raise their standards, I want everyone to be able to talk confidently about planning properly, holistically. So let's share what we know about it, rather than having paid for courses necessarily. You know, we've been the beneficiary many of us that are a bit more experienced for many years of other people that are willing to give us their knowledge, their insights, without charging us for it.
Speaker 1:Well, guy, I always appreciate people that come on to my podcast and give up their time, essentially for free, to be sharing their journey and their experiences with those that are thinking about becoming a financial planner already in the financial planning profession. So you have indirectly helped our audience anyway, and, if anybody wants to know, there's two episodes that we've got with you that are fantastic on the financial planner life, talking about how you built your business, how you niched down with well to you know, build a business around the legal profession. So it's been super, super helpful and I know we've had so many people come back to us telling us what a wonderful episode it is. So, providing that feedback, supporting others, I think, through podcasts, through youtube, through power panels at the pfs these are all things that financial planners can do to inspire those to either get in the profession or get ahead if they're in it right without a doubt, and I don't know what the statistics are, but it seems to be a lot of chat about the fact that many fail in their first year.
Speaker 4:So we've got to change that narrative. We can't have people getting qualified it's an expensive thing to do and then just falling at the first hurdle. Yeah, there's a bit more support required and, and again, post rdr, where it's fee based, there's not commissions it's not quite as easy to think about what's my charging structure, how do I get to a competent status? And there's not that kind of level of wraparound that they used to be with, with self-employed or even employed roles. Um, so a lot of it's going to need to come from the community and we'll just die out if we don't do it, which is probably the saddest thing, but but more so for society. Yeah, because I think we do make a great difference, a lot of of people's lives. And why stop at about circa 4 million people in the UK? Why not double that? Why not treble it? And just imagine how great it would be if everybody walking around in the world knew what they were doing with their time and their life and had intention. It would be a much happier place, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And what I love about the events like today, for example, is collaboration, not competition.
Speaker 4:We've got financial planners from all different backgrounds here, all different companies coming together to share their knowledge and to help support the wider community, which can only be a good thing. Right 100? I've got a chat with our house cap on james's place and I'm directly authorized, but we get on. Surprising, isn't it?
Speaker 1:that's actually quite cool. I have to get you a financial planner like he's gonna absolutely belt this one. Go on, mate, jesus.
Speaker 3:Right above the trees, Right have a shot.
Speaker 1:That looks good, that's good.
Speaker 3:I don't know where my tee went there, that looked rather good Nice. That was my aim there. Just get out the bloody bunker.
Speaker 4:Do the moon walk out?
Speaker 2:There you go, nice Swing, don't let me down, big man, go on. No, it's right, straight in the sand mate.
Speaker 1:Oh no, just over the sand. Is it on Matt? How long have you been playing for About?
Speaker 2:an hour. Go not in the sand On your balls. It's running Good shot that'll go.
Speaker 1:Lovely shots. So both are here with the same amount of shots, but who's going to sink it?
Speaker 3:Well done.
Speaker 2:Yes, well done. That shot Easy when you don't know how Well played Great hole.
Speaker 1:So the PFS president, carla, tied that hole. It's all to play for. On to the next one, when it comes to actually building a client bank from scratch. It's something that you did at quite an early age and actually we had a conversation recently about the average age of your client bank being under the average age of most financial planners. Client bank, how old are the clients on average? With yourself, average age is 53, 53, yeah, and how many have you got under the age of, say, 45?
Speaker 4:55 percent of the clients are under 45, so it's quite skewed because we've taken on a few people's parents. Yeah, had I not done that but I'm not going to repel those people then it, then it would be below the 50 mark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so these are clients that you've worked with for quite some time. They've grown older with you. How old were they when you met them?
Speaker 4:They were similar ages to me when I started, so about 27. Last week I had a meeting with a 26-year-old lawyer and earlier this week I had a 36 and 38-year-old couple, and protection is the thing that's going to be, the thing that will get them on board in the first instance that they're earning large sums of money but they're not quite there yet with their asset values. But once you've got that in the bag, if you like, and they're a client, it's established they'll come back, but it's a necessary evil and I don't want people to get away from that fact. Just because you're young doesn't mean you're invincible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose, when you're thinking about it from a young financial advisor perspective, starting out with clients that are around about your same age, protection is going to be a massive need, especially if you're, say, in your mid-twenties.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. It's really relatable, isn't it? So I think one of the advantages you have if you're a young advisor getting into this is if you can use protection and work with people that are similar age to yourself. You've got a lot in common and you can think about what life will look like, the needs that you'll have. But what really do you have in common with somebody that's, say, 20, 25 years older than you Not as much and are they necessarily going to take advice from somebody that much younger than them? That was my kind of fear at the time when I started. I know that's not necessarily going to be the case to everybody. They're going to have credibility that I perhaps felt I didn't have, which is why I lent on protection. But I knew protection was a vital thing, and I suppose not everybody does know that. But I firsthand knew that with the loss of my dad and my sister with a multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's a story that you can actually relate to. You can tell people what's happened to you, which then gets them thinking about their own futures and potentially what might happen, which perfectly positions protection to cover them, their family and hopefully protect them for their lives.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely, and you don't know what you don't know. So you know, my dad didn't know when he died that he would have daughters that went on to have mental health problems and multiple sclerosis. So the future is just very much unknown.
Speaker 3:Ah yeah, that's the best one today that.
Speaker 1:Lovely shot.
Speaker 2:Shot Well done.
Speaker 1:Right. So, mike, was that part of your game plan then sticking in the trees?
Speaker 2:No, not really. Sam Carla hit a great shot. She's on the fairway, I'm in the trees, you're in the trees. She's got two shots on me on this hole. This is going to be trouble, you know.
Speaker 1:Mate, it's getting spicy, that's for sure it is. Take me over there driver.
Speaker 2:Good shot. Well done, right, buddy. Where is it? I've no idea, let's go find it. Eh, it's in here somewhere, there it is. Where is it? I've no idea, let's go find it. Then it's in here somewhere, there it is. Ah, straight past it. Have you got it? Have you Right, didn't see that. Right, sam, I need some help here, right? So I just want you to knock it here middle of the fairway. Yeah, so nice, easy stroke what over there, just into the middle? How about over there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of those trees Beauty.
Speaker 2:I've got another club. You can't get better than that. That'll work. Good shot. Partner Like it. That was a good shot. Yeah, Just need a new.
Speaker 1:A-tone now, but far from that, oh sorry. Okay, so a lot of people struggle with business development, mike, yeah, what's your quickfire tip?
Speaker 2:I'd say threefold. Number one get good at referrals. If you've got a client bank, ask them for referrals. Two, get good at prospecting, speak to people. And three, use social media. You know, it's been a game changer for me and I think if you have all three and you're good at each of them, yeah, you're going to succeed.
Speaker 1:Your biggest tip about social media what should they use and what's their approach?
Speaker 2:I think there's so many now, with people saying YouTube's better and Facebook's great. For me, linkedin has been fabulous and the biggest tip I'd say is consistency. Even if you're posting rubbish, if you're posting every day, people notice you posting every day people notice you, we're up there.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Got to work on these hand slaps though.
Speaker 4:Great shot, well done, super it gets better as the day goes on.
Speaker 3:I think it's the nerves have dissipated. I'll go horribly wrong yet. Guy, what's your plans around growth, succession etc. For the future?
Speaker 4:It's a little bit arbitrary, but I think I've got 10 years left in me at the current sort of cadence. Maybe it'll be longer than that if I can find a different rhythm. But for me, succession is all about growth. If I can create a trail of people behind me and a big enough book of business that makes it attractive for somebody else to take it away, that's what I've got to do. What about yourself?
Speaker 3:similar really. Yeah, I mean, we've um just recently recruited a graduate trainee, um. The plan being, we've put together a five-year plan to bring someone from completely new out of university um through to charter financial planning within five years, and so the aim is that we're going to do one of these every one to two years. Uh, keep bringing in the clients so that these new advisors look, look after, but the plan being they're going to be my succession going forwards. So we've got one which is already part way through the process. We've got the new one starting in july and hopefully we can make this into a repeatable process. We're bringing in really, you know we're going to have highly qualified planners who can take it forwards so how big do you think the company will get to?
Speaker 3:very good question. I don't know. It's already bigger than I ever anticipated it being. To be honest, um, it's kind of grown arms and legs and turned into a bit of a monster. Um, I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. I mean, we grow up organically, um, I have bought businesses historically, but not in recent years, um, and we're in a really lucky position that, um, most of our new inquiries comes as referrals from existing clients, so we don't have to actively market and we're also focusing more on what is our ideal client. So who do we actually want to work with and being a bit more selective about that and spending time with the right people? So I'm very aware I haven't actually answered your question there, but I don't know.
Speaker 4:I mean, that's the answer, probably is you just keep on. Yeah Well, you know it works, you're enjoying it and the sky is potentially the limit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what about yourself? Have you got a size you want to get to, so a size you want to get to or so in the next nine years.
Speaker 4:I know where we should be yeah but my expectation is it'll be a bit more like a hockey stick and actually I'll exceed that. That's if it's business as usual. Yeah, so there should be greater scaling to it. Once you develop people and then you've got to get to that size and level of attraction that somebody else would want to to acquire it, or it's a management buyout or employee ownership trust exit route and do you see the people you've got in the business already as potentially ones who've got the appetite for a management buyout or eot?
Speaker 4:absolutely, yeah, they are. They are superstars. You know, we um we recently lost a couple of people that um weren't necessarily quite the right fit, but we very much got our recruitment spot on now. Um, and we can be quite deliberate right fit, but we've very much got our recruitment spot on now and we can be quite deliberate and slow with how we attract people.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Which I think is the key.
Speaker 3:Definitely. I mean, we've learned that the hard way, where we've hired too quickly and then regretted it later. Perhaps kept people longer than we should have done as well.
Speaker 4:So I think it's really important that you do take your time and get the right people into your, your practice, isn't it, without a doubt, can massively impact the culture? Yes, yeah, and it's a very costly exercise when you have to part ways, and painful yes, that's the shot.
Speaker 3:Very good, that worked.
Speaker 1:Lovely shot Nice.
Speaker 4:Shot Got my legs Got my shots.
Speaker 2:Good shot, very good, that's the one Good legs. Look at that slope, there you see. Look at that slope there you see Uphill. Remember, sam? Is that what it is? Uphill? It's a good go, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Golf Boys must be relaxing.
Speaker 3:Close.
Speaker 1:Not bad.
Speaker 3:Nice one innit Very good.
Speaker 2:Give me a gimme it or not, get it in.
Speaker 1:Great, we didn't mess about mate. We didn't mess about on those. Go on, that was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Slow and steady.
Speaker 1:I swear to God I was connecting then.
Speaker 2:Wow Right, that's a good strike. Stop before you hit the bunker.
Speaker 3:There you go, stop, stop, stop.
Speaker 1:No, that's good Right. So, guy, business development is always a bit of a struggle for new advisors that are coming in, but I think often they overlook probably one of the maybe easier ways to develop new client relationships and win new business and generate that vital income in the early stages, which is protection. What's your take?
Speaker 4:on that Absolutely. I think if you don't want to charge high fees for investments and not necessarily everybody can afford to pay a high fee the great way to subsidise bringing a client on board is actually being able to sell protection in the first place. So if you've got a £200 a month premium, that's going to pay you about £4,000 of commission, and if you're charging, say, £2,000, which is what we charge as a practice when somebody comes on board, it's a £6,000 case for a new client, client that can subsidize in the first couple of years a client that might be slightly under where we'd want them to be, but we know they're a high earner. They're just not rich yet. They're what we'd call a henry and they've got that trajectory and protection allows for all that to happen.
Speaker 1:So we think about protection, though a lot of people get put off by the conversation of death, right, critical illness, you know, terminal illness, all these horrible things that might happen in our life and maybe destroy our families. But is that a good starting point? And how do you actually get into that conversation and put the client at ease so it doesn't look like you're trying to spook them into buying a policy?
Speaker 4:I suppose it's a slowly, slowly thing. You don't lead straight in with that. I'll always ask people to think about the finite aspect of life, because if we don't think that we're going to die ever, where's our motivation to actually live in the first instance? The spoiler alert is we're all going to die, aren't we? So it's not even an if it's just when. And I've done enough things with numbers around this that I can show people that actually, if we've got the propensity to take more risk with our investments and put some money towards insurance but invest slightly less, then you'll stay in your seat when you are critically ill. If you are critically ill, but actually you'll have a bigger investment than if you just took a bit less risk with your investment and invested more. So it protects the investment, not just the individual. So it's how you frame it as well.
Speaker 1:What part does stories play in being able to develop that relationship to position protection as a product or a solution?
Speaker 4:that that family might need, stories play a huge part. You've got to be relatable. Facts will tell, stories will sell and a story really is just data, but with the soul. So you're making it relatable, so somebody can really picture themselves in that scenario.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love that. And outside of me, who's been playing some fantastic golf?
Speaker 4:Outside of you. I'm very impressed by Mike Yule. He's good, isn't he? He is yeah, yeah, yeah, I think he could do with probably a smaller handicap. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Well, he's back. Six foot seven Long levers help, long levers do help. He's impressing me, but I'll tell you what. Paul Taylor, someone to watch a bit later on. Looking forward to watching him.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I am. I'm excited to see that actually Somebody that can talk you through what they're thinking, how they're playing, It'll be a treat.
Speaker 1:Love it All right mate, let's get back to the game. Perfect.
Speaker 2:Full swing. Yeah, it's coming backwards. Okay, the bank will help here, karl. Yeah, it'll come back, zidane. Oh oh, you're getting over though. Well done, get up. Oh well done, mate. Oh well done, nice Lovely chip. Yeah, that'll work. That's a beauty, oh Thanks.
Speaker 3:Rick.
Speaker 2:Good shot, mate, Well done good shot Ooh. It's in yes, well played, thank you. Brilliant Well played, sweet pistol, two alls High fives.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's all square going into the last hole. Over to you guys. Who's going to win? This Pressure's on El into the last hole, Over to you guys who's gonna win this Pressure's on. El Presidente or Mr Chicken Tuesday Guy, what do you reckon? We're turning up the heat. We're gonna have some fried chicken at the end of this one. Right, we're looking at 261 yards. Mate, what are you playing off? Got my driver out.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna try and give it the full works, short of the bunkers on the left. Chip on two putt, win the game.
Speaker 1:Sounds like a plan to me, mate. Let's do it. Let's do this. Le Francais.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's getting worse. That'll work mate.
Speaker 1:Nice, well done, that'll work, that's ideal yeah. Right ready?
Speaker 2:Are you ready? One, two, three, oh, oh. No, this guy's gone. Yeah, oh, where did yours go? I've got no idea.
Speaker 1:Beautiful shot, good shot. Oh, stay right, you creamed it.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, oh no, oh, no, oh, no, oh, no, oh no.
Speaker 1:Oh it, oh no. So, carla, 28 years working in financial planning, you must be doing something right, but there are plenty of people out there that do struggle with business development. Maybe it's just like the plethora of opportunities that are out there and ways now to actually develop business. So let's just recap on your career when it comes to BD, what works for you?
Speaker 3:So I think my biggest tip would be to be where your clients are. You're not going to have people walking through your front door, so you've got to go out and sit where they are. So if, if your ideal client is in a particular profession or you know, particularly with supporting people or something like that, then you need to go where they hang out. Yeah, so get yourself to networking meetings, go to professional events where they're going to be. Just start talking, um you know, find out what interests them. So if your ideal client, for example, is a certain age group and has kids going to a certain school, go to that school. Just put yourself at your client's front door so they know and get to know them. Start conversations. Don't think for a minute that the first meeting you have with somebody is going to turn into an appointment.
Speaker 2:It doesn't.
Speaker 3:It takes time to build relationships, for people to get to know you, to trust you, to like you and to build relationships, for people to get to know you, to trust you, to like you, and it happens organically that way.
Speaker 3:I think too many people start out and think oh, I'm going to speak to my auntie, I'm going to speak to my cousin, you know, I'm going to get all these people rushing towards me with business and it doesn't happen like that. You know it's difficult, so you've got to build resilience. You know you've got to get used to people saying no, um.
Speaker 3:But also I think one of my biggest tips is be really careful who you take on. Make sure you're working with people that you like, that value what you do for them, because you know you've worked really hard to get to where you are. You've done a lot of exams, a lot of qualifications, you're knowledgeable, and if somebody doesn't value you that or value your time, then they're not the right fit. So move on. There's always going to be somebody else who needs your help. You know there's so many potential clients out there, so many people who need our help. Clients are a scarcity. Getting them to engage is the hard bit, so it's just making sure you're having those conversations and being in the right places a lot of successful planners that I speak to do tend to niche down.
Speaker 1:They tend to understand the pain points and the problems those clients within a specific niche might have. It might be people dealing with NET developers. It might be people dealing with legal professionals, sports people. It could be women divorcing multimillionaire. Ceos like Kerry from St Anthony's.
Speaker 3:Place. I mean it's a super duper niche. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:How important was niching down for you? Is it something that you've hung your hat on, or have you almost always kind of played the open game?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've pretty much been open from the outset. We're starting to niche a bit more now. So we're now focusing on working with female founders, and the reason behind that is that I am one, so I know the pain points, exactly what you were just saying. I understand what drives them, what motivates them, but also what potential risks they might encounter. So I feel it's an area that I can add perhaps more value. Um, but that's a fairly recent development. Up until then, we've really been quite generic. The important thing has been working with nice people yeah we've had, you know, nice people only love it.
Speaker 1:So you're leaning into the fact. Look, get face to face, get to these networking events. You don't have to always go down the route that feels the easiest, which might be social media, which is often balls gold, really, because it does take even more time, I think, via social media to generate clients.
Speaker 3:What you're saying is go back to the old school, get face to face definitely as ai comes in to make your job easier yeah, frees up your time to go out and do the business development that makes total sense to me go to networking events and speak to people, love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fantastic advice cheers. Oh so stay down, love it, people buy people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fantastic advice, cheers oh.
Speaker 1:Does it stay down? Just get it in the hole, mate. Yeah, I don't want to be on a losing team mate. Little bit of gardening there. Oh, he says Tipmarsh over here.
Speaker 2:Is it short, yeah, oh, short, god. Is it short, yeah, short.
Speaker 3:Aw, too hard he's on.
Speaker 2:There we go. Don't listen to the experts. Play your own game, Sam.
Speaker 1:Pass it from there. Fair play In. It goes Bit of wind behind it, oh no.
Speaker 3:Here it goes. A bit of wind behind it, oh no, go on, go on, go on, keep rolling, keep rolling.
Speaker 1:Come on, mr Oakes, right, so I need a putter. Oh, you want your putter, thanks. So it comes down to this. Even Stevens, this is putt to win the game, unless Carla sneaks in with a little putt of her own. So let's see if I can send it home.
Speaker 2:Oh, well played partner God. Now I feel the pressure. No, pressure, no pressure.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, well played, well played.
Speaker 1:Carla.
Speaker 2:Well played. Well played. Well played. Well played. Well played, well played. No pressure, yes, well played. Well played, carl Well done. Well played partner Right.
Speaker 1:So there we go An honourable draw. It's been a great day. There's been a few birdies, a couple of eagles well, one chicken at least and a lot of fun. Hope you've learned a lot about financial planning, careers within it, what to do to get ahead and maybe a little bit of golf Cheers. Well done guys, well played guys.
Speaker 4:That'll work. Here we go. The biggest transfer of wealth is going to be those people who are looking to leave the profession that's not a highway.
Speaker 2:There is it that?
Speaker 4:highway that car guy.
Speaker 1:Where's my ball? Ai threatening quite a fair few jokes out there at the moment. Do you think there is a risk to the financial planning profession and to financial planners? But once you've got a few clients, you really need a great attitude and a great process.
Speaker 4:Is this closer than the gimme that I just gave to you? I don't care, no pressure.
Speaker 2:Literally everyone is staring at me. Do you want the flag out? No, definitely not. 46-year-old eyes for crying out loud.
Speaker 4:Nice and good shot, we'll take that. Starting to question your handicap a little bit, paul, I thought it was really important for people to be able to frame what exactly is a financial planner, and what do they do?
Speaker 2:A financial planner is a bit like a golf caddy. They're there by your side to give you tips and advice, but you're the one actually doing it.
