How A Career Pivot At 45 Built A Purpose-Led Financial Planning Practice

In this episode of Financial Planner Life, Sam Oakes speaks with Heather Hiley, founder of Heather Hiley Financial Planning and a Partner Practice with St. James’s Place. Heather shares her inspiring transition from retail and e-commerce into financial planning via the St James's Place Financial Adviser Academy at the age of 45, showing what’s possible with courage, curiosity, and commitment.

🔥 Key Takeaways:

• A Non-Traditional Start: Heather began her career in retail and ran a furniture business for over 10 years. Despite a long period without contributing to her pension, she felt a renewed interest in finance and discovered financial planning as a meaningful next step.
• The St. James’s Place Academy Journey: Heather explains why she chose the SJP Academy, how it helped her gain both qualifications and client-facing experience, and why resilience is essential when launching your own practice.
• Building Her Practice: Heather shares the reality of her first year. It was quiet at first, with an empty diary and no clients, but consistent action across face-to-face networking and social media helped her build momentum and credibility.
• Purpose-Driven Marketing: Instead of pushing sales, Heather committed to financial education in schools and community groups. Her genuine passion for helping others naturally attracted clients who resonated with her message and approach.
• Recognition and Contribution: Heather won the Mike Wilson Award for overall contribution at SJP. This acknowledged not only her business progress, but also her community involvement and mentorship within the SJP ecosystem.
• Supporting the Self-Employed and Business Owners: With a background in business ownership, Heather relates strongly to self-employed clients who often overlook financial planning. She uses her experience to support them in building secure financial futures.
• Giving Back with Purpose: Heather shares the emotional story behind the Alice Hiley Memorial Trust, founded in memory of her daughter. Her personal journey has deepened her empathy and shaped her purpose, both professionally and personally.
• Looking Ahead: Heather is focused on three things: taking a well-earned break, continuing to support her growing client base, and relaunching her charity with renewed energy. She’s also planning to bring in another adviser as her business grows.

 Why This Episode Matters:
If you're considering a career change, thinking about becoming a business owner in financial planning, or want to understand how purpose can shape professional success, Heather’s journey offers valuable lessons and heartfelt inspiration.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Heather And Her Mission
• 3:40 Career Change At 45 Into SJP
• 8:15 Inside The SJP Academy
• 15:30 Year One: Building From Zero
• 23:10 Networking And Social Media Strategy
• 30:20 Financial Education As A Growth Engine
• 38:50 Winning The Mike Wilson Award
• 43:50 Outsourcing, Capacity And Plans To Hire

Transcript

Sam Oakes: 0:00

And today's guest on the financial panel life, of course, is Heather Heiney. She is from Heather Heine Financial Planning. She is a Palmer practice of St. James's Place. We talk about her Mike Wilson Award for giving back to St. James's Place.

Heather Hiley: 0:13

I've not been able to go back and sort of share. And there's a few few things I know I did along my way that really, really made a difference. So it's it's great to be able to give back.

Sam Oakes: 0:23

We talk about her career transition from retail, e-commerce, into financial planning at the age of 45.

Heather Hiley: 0:30

If you're in the e-commerce space particularly, it's um it's very analytical. Um so you're likely to have really, really good analytical skills.

Sam Oakes: 0:40

We talk about her business development, what she does to win clients, and how financial education in schools to youngsters, teenagers, and adults is helped her generate a ton of clients. I hope you enjoy the episode. So, Heather, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you?

Heather Hiley: 1:18

I'm good, thanks for having me.

Sam Oakes: 1:20

You're welcome. So I'll tell you what, great place to start, which I always do, is just tell us who you are and how you got into the financial planning profession.

Heather Hiley: 1:29

Okay, so so I'm Heather. Um I'm from Heather Highly Financial Planning, clueing the name. Um, and um yeah, I'm a partner practice with them with St James's Place. Um, so so my um I'm a I am a true career changer. Um so I started my life as a finance management trainee in MS um a few years ago, a fair few years ago. And um so yeah, I had a passion for numbers, um, but quite quickly realised I actually had more of a passion for the commercial, the making the money. Um so moved across, had a career with MS as a store manager, moved across to Tesco as a store manager, um and then I'd always had a passion to work for myself, so I um moved across and started a business with my husband, uh a furniture retail business, uh, which we had for 10 years. So I was a business owner uh at that point, and that was um 21 years ago. So I have now pretty much worked for myself 21 years, um, which is um yeah, doesn't come without its challenges. Um, but yeah, so I so so we had this business. Um, I'm sure we'll pick up later um Sam about what what happened within that business. We did exit out of that business, um, and then for those years thereon I consulted and also had um a couple of other um businesses on the side, and and it was during those years that I realised that as um business owners, there's so much we have to think about with our finances. And for you know, total transparency, I probably had 10 years where I didn't pay into a pension, which you know, as I now know, was not the right thing to have done because we had some fantastic years that could have put me in a in a better place than I'm in um right now. Um, so yeah, so I had I still had this hankering for the finance world, it never went away. So even though I I made that transition, it was there. Um, consulting, you're helping people, you're helping people's skills, you're helping people's businesses. Um, so as I started to uh hunt for my next thing, um really financial planning was the thing that started to come into my into my head because it had it had always been there and I got it.

Sam Oakes: 3:40

Right, and it stopped you there because how old were you when you first I suppose you learnt about financial planning as a career?

Heather Hiley: 3:51

Um I suppose I started to think about it around my early 40s. Early 40s. Yeah, early 40s, and actually transitioned into it at 45.

Sam Oakes: 4:03

At 45 years old, okay. So you went through the St. James's Place Academy then.

Heather Hiley: 4:07

I did. I did, yes. I joined the Academy when I was 45. Yeah.

Sam Oakes: 4:11

Brilliant. So the SJP Academy is a fantastic place for career switches. And I've had some great great people come on the podcast and met some amazing people switch from all different backgrounds, all different careers. Um some of the most successful, the ones that have run their own businesses before. It doesn't have to be that they've come from a finance background. They have those transferables here that will make you resilient as a as a financial planner, right?

Heather Hiley: 4:45

Yeah, and you definitely need resilience.

Sam Oakes: 4:49

You definitely need resilience. So let's just talk a little bit about that journey then into SJP. So, how did you find out about the academy and how did you get involved? What convinced you that that was the right route? Did you look elsewhere? Did you look at the open market, or did they do just a bloody good job of convincing you that that was the right part?

Heather Hiley: 5:07

Um so so I did look everywhere, um, but only scratching the surface everywhere, if I'm honest. Um, once I got more involved with SJP, um for me it just felt right. And I think one thing I've always trusted throughout working for myself is is my gut. Um so if my gut says it feels right, it's generally been right. Um, and yeah, once I started on that journey with SJP, I actually stopped conversations with others because I knew it felt right. It also offered the opportunity to still work for myself and change career, um, which wasn't necessarily the case everywhere that I looked. Okay. And you know, when you've worked for yourself for a long time, working for someone else is is is a big deal.

Sam Oakes: 5:51

No, 100%. And that's what I suppose the SJP Academy will offer you is the ability to work for yourself. There are two routes, isn't there? There's the route in as a partner, running your own partner practice, and then there's working underneath a partner practice as a financial planner. Both can offer self self-employment, uh, but one gives you the autonomy to run your business how you want to run it, the other is you're working under an existing partner practice. Um both avenues allow you to generate your own clients, um, but one allows you to run your business the way you want to run it, whereas the other one you have to buy your clients from that business that you join a little bit later on down the line, but could be a useful pathway for somebody that might just not be quite confident yet in respect of running their own their own part of practice.

Heather Hiley: 6:33

Definitely, Sam. And I think had I not had the business experience, I'd have taken that route. Um, but having been a business owner for a long time, running a business was the bit that was easy, the bit that was comfortable. Um, it was the financial planning, the financial services bit that I needed to really master.

Sam Oakes: 6:50

Well, talk to us about that then. So the financial planning bit was the bit you needed to master. Tell us a little bit about your early days journeys and how you approached that, what the training in development's like.

Heather Hiley: 6:59

Yeah, so so so as you said, I I came all the way through Academy, so obviously you know, take qualifications and then come into Academy and learn the the skill of working with clients and supporting clients and helping clients. Um the Academy um was fantastic for me. It did give me what I needed in terms of literally almost from start to finish of the process of you know learning the turning the theory into practice and actually coming out at the end, being able to sit with the clients and and go through the process and advise. Um but it's a bit like drive, it's a bit like learning to drive a car. Um you know, you take your test and you get that pass, and then you actually go out and do it, and then you really learn. Um, so I think that first period after coming out of the true academy bit, you know, if you like, where it's sort of classroom learning type type, um, was was the biggest, you know, the biggest learning curve of this whole process. Um, because actually, once you're with a real client, it's it's slightly different to theory.

Sam Oakes: 8:03

So those that are listening right now and just want to know how long that classroom element actually takes and what was covered within it and what you found beneficial. Tell us how long that took and what you learned during that period.

Heather Hiley: 8:14

Yeah, so that period's um just under three months, um, and that takes you from where you've got your qualification, um, and then literally we'll build on all of the different uh all of the different aspects of a of a client journey, really. Um so it's very, very client focused, it's very much about learning the the art and the skill of of you know of of exploring your client of fact-finding of all of those things, and then it takes you on to actually formulating advice and and so on. So it takes you through that whole process. And what's brilliant about the academy is each week you sort of build on that next step and next step, so that by the time you get to the end of that quarter, you're actually able to bring it all together and and effectively deliver it in a role-play manner, um to prove that you actually can go out there and do the job. Um, so for someone like me who's who I like to know everything to be able to do something, it the the sort of um structure and the the logic of the structure really worked for me.

Sam Oakes: 9:09

Okay, so you've gone through the academy, you've got your qualifications, you've learned the blueprint, how to be a financial planner, what to do, what the meetings are like, etc. So you're away, off you go, and you start to run your own business. What was it like within your first year? What's the realities of running your partner practice on your own within the first year, self-employed as a financial planner?

Heather Hiley: 9:27

Yeah, so the reality is it's quiet, right? It's it's you know, if you if you wanted to get up on a Monday morning and just sit and look at a blank screen, you you can, um, because that that is the reality, you know, no clients. So I started filming complete base, like like many of us do. Um, nothing in your diary, you know, and you create everything. And so and I think that's where having the business experience really helped me because one of the things I'd always learn to my businesses is I never have an empty diary, like you never ever have nothing in your diary. If there's something every single day, there should be something planned in your diary. Um, so and the reality is, you know, if you if you've got responsibilities, then you want to earn money as well. So there's this I want to go out and do it in the right way, but I also need to earn money, and and and I think that's quite a hard balance for a lot of people coming in. Um, I was um, I suppose having the business experience and built business before. I didn't have a lot of expectation of what I would earn in year one, um, if I'm honest. It doesn't mean I don't want to, but I didn't have a lot of expectations. So um, so for me it was it was go out and do everything to build the right reputation, just get out there and make people realise that I'm not retail heather anymore. I am a financial planner, I am a financial advisor, and actually, you know, 20 odd years of being in retail, I needed to make sure the world knew that I was now doing something different. Um, so that's how I approached it. So for me, it was network, like anywhere, everywhere, socially, business, you know, and social media. Um, so that was that was what sort of my my approach.

Sam Oakes: 11:01

So a bit of face-to-face in respect to going out when you say networking, networking, face-to-face, and then you double double that up with a bit of social media presence as well. Okay, you didn't just put your hat on one thing, you you mixed it up with both. And how did that work out? Where did you start to get your business from first?

Heather Hiley: 11:18

Yeah, so um so so so my model, and it still is today, it hasn't changed, is that I make sure I'm visible physically. I think personally I connect with people well in person. I think that is one of my skills, is that I can talk to people and I can talk. Um, so I don't struggle to go out and connect with people. So for me, my model is still go out and do that. And whether that is just my own social life or whether that is formal business networking, it doesn't matter. Um, and then make sure that everybody I meet I connect with online, um, predominantly through LinkedIn, but also through uh through Instagram, which actually surprised me um in terms of what that's done for me, and I'll I'll talk about that later, maybe. Um, but yeah, so it's and then make sure that I then post and interact online. It's not just about posting, it's also about being social online. So it's twofold, it's meet in person and then make sure that people still know I'm there all the time and actually add some value so that maybe it resonates with them over time.

Sam Oakes: 12:16

Before you started, did you build a business plan? Did you put something together where you were gonna go, right? These are the people I'm gonna target, these are networking events I'm gonna go to, these are people that I've worked with previously that I feel might want to use me and my services. Did you do that?

Heather Hiley: 12:33

I did. Yeah. So part of the process with SJP is that you need a business plan. Um, and and if I'm honest, the business plan is more of a marketing plan than a business plan, truly. You know, it is actually how are we going to grow this business? Um, so yeah, so I had a I had I had a very clear business plan. I was told by some people in SJP that it was I was going to be too busy because I was trying to hit lots of different things. However, my belief was always go out and do everything and then and then learn from that and then shape and from there. And that's how I built businesses before is you know, try you you start somewhere, you have a plan, but actually sometimes that plan is taken in different directions, and that's okay.

Sam Oakes: 13:12

Um and did that happen with you then?

Heather Hiley: 13:16

Did that happen with me in this business? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So um there was things on my business plan that I went out and tried, and that and then they didn't, you know, they didn't come to fruition, and that's okay, because I just said, right, we still you know I stopped doing that, and I and I moved to the things that are actually you know producing results, um, but also that I'm enjoying because I do believe if you're enjoying something, it will produce results longer term.

Sam Oakes: 13:40

And were those things that you started to enjoy and you started to produce results from, can you share what that was and were they part of the business plan or did they materialize through trial and error?

Heather Hiley: 13:51

Um, yeah, so there's probably a bit of both, really. So, you know, certain certain networking groups versus others, um, I wanted to look at the financial education uh world. So SJP um partner with Red Start, which is um the material is fantastic to go into sort of schools and education settings and deliver that education. Um I've always sort of supported giving back into education anyway, so that was sort of right up my street. But actually, whether it produced results, initially for me I didn't worry about too much, um, but but it has. Um so actually to do more of that, you know, is is is fills fills me with you know what I want to achieve, which is give something back um while I'm in you know in this space, but also does does does give me the visibility and and does actually lead clients to you as well.

Sam Oakes: 14:42

So interesting. Let's let's look into that then. So delivering financial education, are we talking to children? Are we talking to young adults? Are we talking to adults?

Heather Hiley: 14:49

Um yeah, so I've done them all. Yeah, so I've done um into children in primary school age, um, so five to seven year olds and then 10 to 11 year olds. The 10, 11-year-olds um workshop is is fantastic and it really does um grab them. Um, I've done some work with 16 to 18 year olds in colleges, um, and then I've done some work with adults um either in community groups or also in businesses. So I have done um sort of different levels.

Sam Oakes: 15:16

Okay, and then let's look at the school one because it's a lot of people that get stuck into going in and giving back in the schools. I think giving back is a great way to build brand. I think it's non it's not intrusive, it's quite um altruistic, and I think people look at it and go, wow, that person's actually giving up their time to deliver some educational content to our children. Teachers might watch it and go, that's really interesting. So I'm keen to understand how you would turn that into a moneymaker. So if I took 365 days a year and I went out and just did financial education for free, could I could I make money out of it? And how have you done it in the capacity that you have? And and which age group has actually led you to a client.

Heather Hiley: 15:55

Okay, so I genuinely don't go in and do it to create business. Okay. Yeah, so I think I think I think that's why it works. Because I if I think if you go and do something that you are truly believe in and are passionate about, then and yes, I do then share on my social media because it does build trust and it does give credibility. So that's how that's how I that's how I monetize it, I suppose. Um, I do share it, I do share to to people out there that I'm doing that. But actually, I think it starts with go and do something you're truly passionate about, don't do something you believe in, and actually other things follow. Um, and I think I've I I've I've probably always worked my life like that. So I've always been involved in in education, I've been on a governing uh body, I've been chair of governors, I'm now a trustee of a multi-academy trust, and I've done those things now over 15 years, so that's not something new for me, and it has allowed me to get into the financial education space and deliver these programs. Um, but actually, that's the person I was before. So for people seeing me doing it, it's not just for money. However, does it help? Of course it does, it absolutely does, as long as you share it, as long as people know about it.

Sam Oakes: 17:06

Didn't you win some of you won an award as well, didn't you, with St. James's Place? The Mike Wilson Award. So just tell us a little bit about that Mike Wilson Award. Does that tie into education?

Heather Hiley: 17:16

Yeah, it does, absolutely. Yeah, you're spot on. Um, so it's um so the Mike Wilson Award is for all-round contribution, um, Academy Partner of 2024. Um, didn't have a clue about it, didn't know I'd been entered for it, which is even better because when you get that call, it's just pretty amazing. Um, and and and when I, you know, when I talked to them about why, you know, why why me, um, they very much talked about the fact that I I embraced everything. Um, so yes, I built a business, uh, you know, the business is is is on its way to being successful, or maybe at this stage already successful. Um it it was also about um charity work, about work in the financial education sector, it was about engaging within SJP, um, so making sure that I, you know, got to know people in that business and have taken help from others, but also given help um back where I can, even at even at my fairly early stage. Um, yeah, so it was it was deemed sort of overall contribution.

Sam Oakes: 18:17

Did you yeah, lovely, I love it. Uh did you in respect of your own partner practice at the moment, how long have you been growing that for?

Heather Hiley: 18:24

So I came out of sort of true academy um February 23.

unknown: 18:29

Yeah.

Heather Hiley: 18:29

Um so just over the two-year mark. Yeah, so feels like a lot longer.

Sam Oakes: 18:36

Have you have you built any employees yet? Is it just yourself? Have you got employees? How do you support, you know, how do you support the administration power planning? And you've got aspirations to build it for a business to give them this up for a different way. Absolutely.

Heather Hiley: 18:49

Yeah, so so I I came into this, um, and I think I touched on this before. So I had a business plan, but the business plan was more around what I did. Um, and I've employed people in my in my own businesses for a long, long time. Um, so I've actually enjoyed a little bit of a period of time of it of not employing people um because it's just quite hassle-free. Um, however, I also miss it, so you know I say that lighthearted. Um, so at the moment I outsource, so I outsource admin and I outsource power planning. So, yes, I have the support, couldn't do what I'm doing without the support, and and those people are fantastic. Um, I will grow. Um, I think now I'm in it, now I'm in this space, now I've you know got my confidence in this space. Um, yeah, I absolutely will grow. And I've I'm already sitting down, I've got a bit of a sort of um loose business plan to bring an advisor in at some point. So, yeah.

Sam Oakes: 19:41

Oh, lovely. Okay. But when did you start to feel like it it it was starting to make sense as a financial planner? But you were you knew that you were going to start to make money or you were starting to make money, you started to to generate clients or referrals. When did that when did that start to happen?

Heather Hiley: 19:57

Yeah, so I came out in February twenty three and I remember. Hitting New Year's Day of so 1st of January 2024. And have I got that about those dates right? Yes, I think. You know, when you think, gosh, the years are going by. So I came out and I remember New Year's Day, I started getting messages from people saying that you know they were obviously hitting the new year. And literally that week, I think I got something, and I can't remember the exact number. Nine of 10 people contacted me in that first week of the new year. And I was like, okay, I've got a business now. Like, you know, that work I put in, that networking, that sort of those social media, that getting out there, making sure people are aware of that I'm now in this space, not in retail anymore. Um, that's that was the moment when literally it was okay, it I'm here. Like people now are coming to me because they're ready. So um, yeah, and really literally from there on it it flowed. Um, whereas those sort of 10 months before had been a bit stop, start, stop, start.

Sam Oakes: 20:55

So I know somebody who just talked about New Year's resolutions and New Year, you know, New Year's financial resolutions. He runs a financial resolutions uh workshop over uh the the the the the foot you know in between Christmas, so so Christmas and New Year, he puts it in there and then obviously puts it over in the new year as well. Absolutely fills up online webinars with people. So if you put you know, like a like a three-day workshop. Over over these five days, I've got you know a hundred slots available. If you want to come in and start to work out what your financial resolution should be, whether that's working how much, you know, how much you've got for retirement, or are your savings in the right place? And I'll build out a financial New Year's resolution plan for you. So by the end of it, you know what you've got to do. And like absolutely is inbox gets filled because everyone's off work and everyone's thinking about it, and everyone's kind of coming to that end of the year thinking, damn it, I don't know what the hell I'm doing next year. Like I promised myself, well, you said it yourself, right? And you must come across people who are self-employed that don't have pensions in place, right? And you don't like it's it's quite a normal it's quite a normal thing for entrepreneurs and people who run their own businesses to to not think about their pension, right? Is that is that a key area that you're generating business in? You know, are you finding those types of clients in that space?

Heather Hiley: 22:08

Absolutely. And you know, one of the things I said when I came in was I can work with self-employed and business owners because I get it. I've been there and I felt that same way, and I have not thought about those things, you know. So it's it is like you say, it's normal. So yeah, I attract a lot of um sort of small business owners and and the self-employed for that reason. And it is an absolute pleasure to know that you're doing something that will long term really make a difference and you know helps with the whole tax thing as well.

Sam Oakes: 22:32

Just reflecting on your previous experience, then so you said you worked in retail. What was it you were actually doing? And how did you feel that that experience helped you transition into financial planning? If someone was sitting in retail now in the position that you were in, you did a bit of e-commerce towards the end, but you were consultant businesses as well, right? But like how did it, how did it help you transition into financial planning? Because lots of people probably sitting in a retail capacity thinking or e-commerce capacity thinking, do you know what? I wouldn't mind a wouldn't mind a career change.

Heather Hiley: 23:04

Yeah, so I think I think if you're in the e-commerce space particularly, it's um it's very analytical. Um, so you're likely to have really, really good analytical skills. Um, and I know we talk a lot about with our what role, it's about people connection, and it absolutely is. I mean it really, really is. But actually, having um an analytical mind or or a curious mind at least around figures can I think can help. Um, I don't think it's key, I don't think everyone needs to have it, but I do think it can really help. Um, so I think that's that's something from an e-commerce side, I think it is powerful for anybody coming across. I think for me it was slightly different because my background wasn't e-commerce, it was true retail, and it was and then and I think then mainly running businesses. Um, so for me, the the the transition across having been a business owner means when I sit in front of a business owner and I've got business owners now who have lost businesses, I've got business owners that are selling businesses, I've got business owners that are starting businesses, I've got business owners that are really growing businesses, and I've done all of those things, might not be in the same industry, might not be in the same scale. It doesn't matter, you know, the power of being able to truly understand and talk to them about those things. And you know, our conversations go off in all sorts of tangents because I love listening to people that are in business and and what they're doing, um, but actually, it allows me to really get in and really support them.

Sam Oakes: 24:27

Interesting. So that's quite a cool market for you, then dealing with business owners. That's that's sort of bread and butter, that's where you feel the most comfortable. I'm intrigued by business owners as well. Being one yeah, I did 17 years of running my own business. Um it's weird actually going from so I'm now employed on one side and then self-employed on the other. So I've got foot in both camps, which by the way is stress is stressful.

Heather Hiley: 24:50

I think you've done well to go back to being employed. I think when you've worked for yourself for a long time, that's um that's quite a different shift.

Sam Oakes: 24:58

Well, I'm looking at it, the way I've got to look at it in my head is um it's like I'm consulting. That's the way I look at it. Yes. So I've got I've got my own business over here, which is my my baby, and then I'm in another business, and I'm using my experience here to consult on this business here. So I don't think the employee hat is a hat that I wear very well, and I suspect anybody in here will tell you that it's it's it's hard when you've you when you've worked the way that you've wanted to work for some time. Um very, very difficult to adjust yourself, basically. I find it hard anyway. Um, but I'm grateful for the experience because it's teaching me a lot by being employed, especially within financial planning, which is I've never been employed within financial planning. And the reason I did it was because I wanted to gain that level of experience. Like I ran my own recruitment business, I've got my own podcast marketing agency, I talk to financial planners day in, day out. But to be in here and behind the scenes and to see how it operates and how it works was is a great experience in education for me and one that I'm grateful, I'm grateful for. Um have you gone back into St. James's place and delivered any training or development based on your personal experience?

Heather Hiley: 26:03

Yeah, so I've been invited um back into Academy um a couple of times to go and and and really share how I've built a business um from scratch, um, because it's not easy, you know. Uh no one would ever say to you it's easy. However, there are people out there that that want to give that a go, um, regardless of what their background is, as you say, it doesn't matter. Um, so yeah, so I've I've I've been invited back in. Um, I love doing that stuff. Um, I love being able to go back and sort of share. Um, you know, and there's a few key things I know I did along my way that really, really made a difference. So it's it's great to be able to give back. I mean, the one thing with SJP I found coming through is that everyone is so happy to help. You know, other partners will will step in and help you. So being able to do that for others. So as I say, I've gone back in and done some sessions with an academy, but also some of the development managers will hook certain individuals up with me so I can just have a bit of a sort of matter to them, really, and share some of what I've done and to help them, which which I love.

Sam Oakes: 27:06

Good. Giving back and helping others. And do you find that that early do you find that that early part of your career now that you're actually in that you it's funny because someone might go, I haven't got enough experience to be able to train somebody or to, but it is almost like that. The better, the the quicker that you can the quicker that someone can show you what year one looks like or year two, once they're it whilst they're in it, I think there's such a huge benefit. Having the person who's 10 years down the line with half a billion under management, isn't it's aspirational, but you know, you you need to hear the person say it's bloody hard, like you know, it's a real struggle, and this is how I deal with it, and it's normal to be pulling your hair out and not knowing what you're doing, or wondering where you're gonna get business on, and thinking, why have I done this? You know, it's normal and it's nice, it's nice to hear those, isn't it? It's nice to be able to identify with someone who's who's going through that process a little bit earlier on and could kind of uh reflect on what they're doing to get over those hurdles or what they've learned to get over those hurdles. I think that's a key thing, and that's what I like about SJP. A lot of giving back goes on, not just from the partnership as a whole, but from individual advisors coming and sharing stuff very, very early on, because that's the most impactful time to actually do that, right?

Heather Hiley: 28:12

Yeah, absolutely. And it and it carries on. So, you know, at my stage now, there's still partners that may be two, three, four years ahead of me that will come and do the same with me. And it is, it's it's it's really powerful. I do remember the first time they asked me, I was like, What me? Come and talk. Like, I'm just getting going. Um, but actually you're right, it's absolutely the time because you're still fresh in it, you're still feeling it, you can almost share the the reality of it.

Sam Oakes: 28:34

So yeah. Um what about um what about the future for you? So when you got into financial planning and you sat down and you uh you looked at the blueprint, if you like, for St James's place, what did what excited you about it? Because it is an ecosystem where you can build a business and you can eventually exit, right? Tell us a little bit about the things that excited you about the the blueprint or the future of being an SJP partner practice.

Heather Hiley: 29:03

Yeah, so I think as you say, there is a there's a clear way in and there is a clear way out um with SJP. And I think having had my own businesses where there was never that clear way out, um, it did offer a lot of security. Um and and you know, and I I think that that's something that for a lot of people coming in, um, I I will often talk to them about what's your exit plan. And I mean, if you'd have asked me that 20 years ago when I started my first business, you know, what's your exit plan? I'd have gone, what? Like this is it for life. Foolishly, how naive I was. Um, but you know, I would have said that. That's literally what I would have said. Whereas now I'm I'm far more realistic about um, you know, that there's there's different there's different avenues and there's different ways for me potentially to exit. Um, not that that's what I'm thinking about right now, but but it is you're right, the ecosystem of of SJP is is powerful in that it allows that. But that's really important for clients as well. So I have had clients say to me, you know, what happens when you retire, Heather? You know, and it's brilliant to be able to say, well, it it won't just happen like that, and I'm gone and you don't know what to do, you know. This is this is this is how it works in in SJP, and and I do think a lot of clients really like that.

Sam Oakes: 30:15

Right. Do you have your eyes on buying out partner practices? Is that something that's part of your strategy as well? So as retiring IFAs exit out of SJP, are you looking at buying client books and and building your business that way?

Heather Hiley: 30:29

Yeah, so potentially. I think to to bring in an advisor, um, it's something that I've got to consider. Um but for me it would have to be the right the right person and the right location um to make it work. Um so I'm quite I'm probably quite specific about what I would what I would buy, but that's okay. You know, that that's that that's fine. Um but yeah, to grow, I think there's there's a reality that that that will probably happen. Um and you know, I want to make sure that if I bring an advisor in, there's plenty obviously there for them um to be able to work with. So it will be really important that I do that at that stage.

Sam Oakes: 31:02

Yeah, I think that just echoing what you said about the um ecosystem that has a proven strategy to build a business and to be able to exit that business, I mean that is really, really powerful. Being a you know, as a recruitment business owner, 90% of recruitment businesses and they never sell. I was lucky that I managed to sell mine. It wasn't for a lot. But I tell you what, in those years that I was thinking I was gonna build it and sell it, I I thought I was gonna walk away with a hell of a lot more money than I actually did. And when I when I do talk to SJP, when I do talk to those ecosystems that allow advisors from day one to say, look, this is the goal, right? You're gonna get here in 10 years. If you have this level of AUM, this many clients, this much income, this is the value of your business. And we can value it based on the fact that you're in our ecosystem. It's not like going to the open market where everyone's bidding for it and it's different. Yeah, you know, they can genuinely look at your business from start to finish and give you a clear indication of the worth of it and give you somebody to actually transition that business to. So as you rightfully pointed out, you're not just exiting and leaving your clients in the lurch, you know, you are gently transitioning out of the profession. In fact, you can even like break apart your business in SJP and sell it to other people if you want if you wanted to actually do that. So either raise some capital over a period of time when you need it, um, or just to gently kind of edge out. And I think that's a really beautiful thing. And I being a business owner, though, never really thought outside of the fantasy of selling a business of what I think might happen because we're so caught up in the moment, there is a kind of um reassurance that I get. And I've often said I've said I've spoken to so many people St. James's place, and it's interesting because I I genuinely like if I was considering building a financial advice business, like business, I think SJP is a hell of an ecosystem to do it in. It creates that kind of support network, but allows me to be an entrepreneur within it. And and and that's what I that's what I like. And when I'm seeing people go in, you know, not everyone's a success. You know, not everyone goes in and a success. But if you've got that business uh building mindset, I think having the ability to know what your exit could look like from day dot is powerful. And I think for me, I would consider that over a time period because I could go right at 50, you know, I'm 43 years old, 43 years old. I've always considered like at 50, I might actually become a financial planner. You know, I'm kind of quite up for that. I think it's a good age, right? I think it's a good age, I can get out of there, I can do it. I've got loads of experience and I'm building upon all my experience now, all the marketing and all of that kind of stuff. I thought I could go in and do that at 50 years old. I could do that for 10 years until 60. What could I build in 10 years? You know, and going in and having a blueprint where someone can actually show me it, it's like, well, that sounds really, really attractive to me.

Heather Hiley: 33:40

It is, it is, and uh so so um uh when we talked before, Sam, you're aware that I've you know I've exited out of businesses in different ways so far. So I've obviously exited out of one business where where we liquidated, I've exited out of one business where we sold, um, and I've closed another one down. Um, so coming in with this, you know, where there is this opportunity to make sure that you understand, and and like you say, I think they they're doing it gradually over time and raising capital gently over the time is is probably more realistic, and is probably what I would think will happen um with my with my business. Um, but actually it's it's it's so powerful because you don't have a clue what will happen with your business when you decide that you've had enough. And I've got clients now trying to sell their businesses and they've got tremendous figures in their head of what they believe their business is worth, but actually finding a buyer is a really, really hard, hard thing to do.

Sam Oakes: 34:30

Um, you never know what might happen in business, and you never know what might happen in life. No, people go through ups and downs in life as well, and it hasn't always been roses for you, right? And I know that you uh have the Alice Highly Memorial Trust, which sounds like an amazing charity and trust to be a part of. But what is the story, story behind that, Eva?

Heather Hiley: 34:54

Yeah, so so as you say, I've I've definitely been through through some through some tough times, as as many of us have. Um so uh my my second daughter um was diagnosed with a congenital congenital diaphragmatic hernia at C D H. It's a bit easier to say, um, at a 20-week scan, um, and uh was expected to um be born um and uh be operated on within a couple of days and and then probably lived quite a relatively normal life um with with maybe a bit of asthma, a few problems maybe potentially with the lungs. That was sort of what we were told, what we were expecting. Unfortunately, when she was born, um she she only lived for seven hours because her heart gave up, um, which I have to tell you is probably the hardest thing I'll ever experience in my life, and it and I think it has it's made me who I am. Um I'm not saying I wasn't a good person before, but it's definitely made me a better person. Um, because you know, when you deal with something so well, it's just wrong, isn't it? You don't expect to lose your children. Um, that um yeah, it has made me um resilient for sure. Um, but also it's made me um I've always tried to help others. I can't say I wasn't like that person before, but it's made me like have this true like purpose. I use that word, you know, um it can be used too easily actually, but it has meant I've I've always had this inner feeling that I need to my life needs to have purpose and because she couldn't live. Like I always feel like I live for her as well. Um, so yeah, so um and look from there we we had to organise a funeral, which is probably one of the most horrendous things you ever have to organise in your life for your own child. And a lot of people wanted to come, we had this massive outpouring of support, which was amazing, but I couldn't I couldn't cope with it. Um so so instead we organised a private funeral and then we organized a fundraising evening because we said, let's give back, let's give back to the hospitals that were amazing, you know. Um, absolute um shout out for all the all the hospitals in the area that looked after um myself and Alice. Um, so we had this evening, and bear in mind this is nearly 15 years ago, um, we had this evening, we raised £5,000 in one evening, which was a lot of money in an evening, you know, that we were so we went we went home that night, you know, quite overwhelmed, really, and and sat up all night saying, We're quite private people, but actually we have the power to do something. Like out of out of something really horrendous could come some good. Um, and and that night the charity was was born um because we realised that we actually could do some good. Um, so yeah, so we we uh had the charity for 15 years, we raise money to support the outcomes of neonatal babies, predominantly in the northwest of England. Um, so what we wanted to do was that people got involved, but actually, um you know it led to equipment or staff training in the areas where their children, their nieces, their nephews, their friends' children were going to be born and and potentially would would be looked after. Um and we also raised the awareness for congenital diaphragmatic hernia as well, which is um fairly rare, but not as rare as as you think.

Sam Oakes: 38:01

Not as rare as you think, is it? Is it something that comes up with the case?

Heather Hiley: 38:04

Yeah, so one in one in five thousand babies die of CDH, which sounds not a lot, but when you actually look at some of the stats of some of the other things that that you hear of children born with cystic fibrosis, all those things, it's actually more common. So yeah, not as uncommon as you think. But then but they still don't have a cure, they still don't know why it happens. So um we try to support in that way as well.

Sam Oakes: 38:24

Well, if you can send me that link to where our listeners can make donations, and um I definitely want to make a donation to that heather. So if you can send that across to me, I will make a donation and we'll make we'll make sure that that gets shared on the uh description and the article that we put out as well. Because um, you know, amazing work and something quite traumatic to go through. I couldn't imagine it being a father of a daughter myself. So I think when you told me that, I wells you up because it must be absolutely um heartbreaking to go through that. But turning that tragedy into supporting others, I think is a noble thing to do. And I said, Yeah, as you said, giving giving up your time to deliver that higher level of purpose to to support others who are going through potentially the same stress and anguish and heartbreak um trauma that you've gone through is um admirable. So keep up that amazing work, and and obviously she lives on Alice in your heart and in your purpose, right? And that's the most beautiful thing.

Heather Hiley: 39:17

Yeah, and look, you know, because of the charity, people know her name, and that's that's another amazing thing that came from the charity. It wasn't intentional, but yeah, it absolutely is. Um but yeah, it I think it's I I've I've met people through the financial planning, so clients through the financial planning that have gone through similar situations, not necessarily the same, similar situations or uh similarly heartbreaking situations. Um and so often I end up sharing it, which uh I never thought I would. It's not like the first thing I tend to tell people. You know, people people that have known me for a while sometimes don't know because it's not Heather and this is what happened to me. It's it's it's is it is a part of me. Um, but it it you know. Does allow for people to talk quite openly about some of the tough stuff they've been through because I don't shy away from talking about things.

Sam Oakes: 40:07

No, exactly. It allows people to, yeah, your personal experience of that allows people to get vulnerable with you as well. And it can often put things into perspective sometimes, and we sit there and we think we're having a really hard time, and then someone opens up and tells a story like that, it makes you realise, okay, right, maybe my problems right this second can be solved. Something like that is something which is painful for a long, long time. Um, I've spoken to quite a few financial planners that help families with clinical negligence and PI, uh personal injury, um, and families that are living with children that have got um, you know, long-term illnesses, uh, disabilities where, you know, in the long term, a financial plan needs to be built out and more often than not, sometimes it has to go through the courts to be able to justify it. And I always found that a really fascinating and interesting area of financial planning, you know, having being able to be able to support a family through the courts to be able to make a claim to be able to provide long-term care, uh, not just for the child or the person that's been injured, for example, but also for the family that has to be there to support, because there's a huge amount of support that gets on that goes on with that. And that's another kind of whole area of financial planning that you can open yourself up to, which is um truly quite aspiring and uh and interesting. Um, Heather, what does the next couple of months look like for you? I always say like you know, the next year, but I'm intrigued into what's what's what's happening in the next couple of months. What's your plans? What's your what's your big tick list? What are the top three things on your tick list to do in the next couple of months, do you get a a holiday? Right, yeah. I'm me.

Heather Hiley: 41:38

Yeah, I'm me. I think look, I think when you go into this, um building your own business, and it doesn't matter what business it is, does it? You've got to give it everything. And I and I hear people that say, Well, I work for myself because I want the flexibility to do this and that and the other. And don't get me wrong, I have that flexibility. If I want to go at three o'clock and pick up my child from school, which I mean she's a bit older than that now, but you know, when she did, I did. But that doesn't mean I then didn't work till nine, ten o'clock at night to make up for the fact that I had that flexibility. So starting this business, the last two years I have worked every hour I think is possible between Monday to Friday. I'm quite strict with my weekends. It doesn't mean I don't sometimes work, but I never see clients at the weekend. I am quite, I uh you know, I need to give my family some of me, yeah. Um but um so so this year I have yeah, I've just I literally hit the new year and haven't stopped. Um so I'm truly ready for a break. So that's number one. Um yeah, on there. Um number two, I think, will always be to make sure that I'm doing everything that's right for my clients. Um so and that goes the next two months, that goes forever. Um, you know, I I I do I think being in retail, you know, I didn't have the impact on people that I have today. So, you know, when I sit down with someone and create a plan and say yes or no, you can retire, or yes or no, you can do whatever, I feel the weight of that. I really do. I feel that that that on me, and I and I want to feel that. I think we all should feel that actually, um, because it's you know, we're we're not we can't mess with people's lives, can we? Um, and in retail, I didn't have that. So I definitely think that's something that yeah is my will always be my focus and is probably my focus for for the next period. Um and the third one, I'm gonna bring it back to the charity actually. So we we we had a bit of hiatus in the last few years. We've relaunched this year and we've got our first event, a week today, um, which it's just a bit of a social um i in our local area. Um, but actually, I I need to give that what it deserves um because when I am so busy with the business, it it can sometimes get a bit of a backseat. So yeah, um, making sure that that that that charity gets back to where it was in terms of visibility is really important as well.

Sam Oakes: 43:51

So, what I took from that, your top three things is and I love the fact that you put yourself first, actually. I love the fact that you put yourself first because I think running a business office. Yeah, and I'm guilty, I'm very, very guilty of that. Very guilty of that. So I'm I'm with you. And I find it really hard to put myself first. And then obviously, you've got the clients that you're looking after, you know, you're putting them in that list as well, and you're putting your charity in that. So, what it sounds like to me is you're somebody who likes to give back to others, but you're starting to recognise that giving back to yourself um is really, really important. And you're probably feeling that burn running your own business and to give yourself that space, give yourself that that that um that uh fill your chalice up before you can start giving giving it to somebody else because you can give them an empty chalice head.

Heather Hiley: 44:35

Absolutely, yeah. I and I and look, I I I don't pretend that I don't work stupidly hard and I don't pretend to other people that if you're gonna grow a business, you've got to sacrifice something. Like you you you do. Um, but I also know when I'm ready for the break. Yeah. So they're important.

Sam Oakes: 44:50

However, it's been an absolute pleasure hearing about your journey there at St. James's Place, your transition from retail into financial planning and all the good things that you're doing. It certainly sounds to me that you are an actual planner with a higher purpose. You enjoy what it is you do, and the big part of that is helping others. So love it. So thank you so much for joining joining. And if anyone wants to reach out to you to find out more about uh you, your journey, potentially maybe working with you at some point in the future, uh they can do so via the comment section because we're going to put your contact details in there, okay?

Heather Hiley: 45:19

That's brilliant. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me, Sam. It's been a pleasure.

Sam Oakes: 45:23

You're welcome. Thanks, Heather.

Heather Hiley: 45:25

Thank you.