Employed Financial Planner Academy - The Openwork & Redmill Advance Partnership

In this episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast, Sam Oakes is joined by Helen Longland from Openwork and David Tait from Redmill Advance to explore how advisers are really being developed in today’s profession and what it takes to build an academy that works at scale without losing quality.

Helen and David bring a long-standing working relationship into the conversation. Having partnered on previous academies, they share how that experience shaped the decision for Openwork to work with Redmill again when launching its new Academy. This episode gives a clear view of how that partnership operates in practice and why trust, transparency, and delivery matter when developing new advisers.

The discussion begins with the wider industry context. An ageing adviser population, ongoing challenges in attracting new talent, and why firm-led recruitment alone is no longer enough to address the advice gap. From there, Helen explains how the Openwork Academy has been structured to provide a clearer, more supported route into the profession.

Listeners are taken step by step through the Academy journey. Starting with RO qualifications and internal licensing, where technical knowledge is built alongside advice skills and communication. This is supported by Redmill through structured learning, blended delivery, and clear visibility on learner progress.

The journey then moves into central employed practice, where individuals begin working with real clients while being supported by experienced advisers, managers, and coaches. This stage also includes Competent Adviser Status sign-off, removing a key barrier many face when entering the profession.

From there, the focus shifts to ongoing development. Advisers continue to build their capability through Openwork’s Business School, with access to continuous professional development, leadership training, and further qualifications. For those looking to build their own businesses, the Route to Principal provides a structured pathway into running a firm, supported by peer-to-peer learning and growth programmes.

The episode also explores the flexibility within the Academy. Individuals can progress at their own pace, with the option to specialise in protection or mortgages, or continue through to full diploma-level advice. A key part of this is the employed route, which remains rare in the market and plays an important role in attracting both younger entrants and second careerists.

Alongside this, Helen shares insight into OWL Financial, where she is Director. This provides a self-employed protection route, with real examples of individuals building advice businesses alongside existing careers before progressing further.

Throughout the episode, David explains how Redmill supports the Academy at every stage. From

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And today on the Financial Planner Live podcast, I'm joined by the brilliant Helen Longman from the Open Work Partnership. She's also the director of Owl Financial, and she's going to go into a bit of detail around the Academy here at Open Work Partnership. And with her today is David Tate. They spent a lot of time in the profession together, and David supports that academy. What I love about this academy is they'll take people on employed. And today, Helen and David take us all the way through the academy from start to finish. Exactly what to expect if you are interested in joining the Open Work Academy. David, Helen, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planet Live podcast. One of my favorite topics is training and development and academies, or any company really, that are taking on people, brand new people into the profession, so we so desperately need it. It's such a shortage of financial planners. And it's wonderful to be sat down with you because I've heard some amazing things about the Open Work Academy, mainly from this guy. And it's a reason for that because he sat right next to you, and we're going to get into that as well, okay? But so uh why don't we do that? Um just explain why you're sat together, how you know each other historically, and what you're up to today. So, Dave, why don't you kick things off?

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Sure, no problem. Um so my relationship with Helen goes back to 2019.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah, I think that's about right.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

So about six years, seven years, something along those lines. And um we first met actually when uh Helen was I want to get your title right, was it Learning and Development Director at SJP?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

It was a little bit even before then, yeah. I think I was kind of head of quality learning or something like that at the time. There's been a lot of different titles, Sam. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

If you're along the way. But yeah, at the time, um I was trying to convince Helen's predecessor um how good our exam content was. And um Helen basically he retired out and Helen uh basically took over his job. Yeah, and I was very fortunate that I got to pick things back up with Helen at that point, and really we've built that relationship over the last six, seven years. So it goes back as far as 2019.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Fantastic. So new learners, training and development, financial services, academies. This is your wheelhouse then.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Tell us a little bit about you then and and what you're doing at open work at the moment. Where are you?

OpenWork Business School Explained

SPEAKER_01 2:22

So I'm kind of 30 years um born and bred into the uh into the industry, if you like. Um, and I've always, throughout my financial services career, had a passion about learning and just absorbing what this brilliant profession has to offer. Um, I fell into learning and development and kind of found my my passion, really, my my sweet spot. Um, and I've been fortunate to work with some of the biggest academies um in the country, and I moved to open work and um helped establish their business school, which is their learning and development proposition for the whole of open work. Right. So it's really quite unique in the market. So that looks after the colleague population, the leadership of the business, as well as the advisors and the firms. Um, underneath the business school sits the open work academy, which David now works with.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

That's amazing. I want to hear a little bit more about this business school. I know we're going to probably touch on it a bit later on, but let's just bring it up now because that's really unique. I guess it's kind of like an intranet of learning for anybody within open work. And for those that don't know, there's uh AR firms underneath Open Work. Just give us a bit of a brief overview.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Thank you, Sam, for asking that. So open work has kind of three distinct parts under the umbrella of the Open Work Partnership. So there is the network, which is open work. There's also two plan, which is an independent financial advisor arm, and there's the area that I'm responsible for now, which is our financial, which is a protection-only business under the umbrella. And the business school, which I ran right up until the end of last year, and you can tell, still passionate about, really looks after the learning and development from everybody across the group. Right. And the reason for that is because there's so much crossover now in the skills that we all need. And it made sense to harness it in one central place rather than have pockets of LD all around the business.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

I love it. And does it get used?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

It gets really, really well used. I think when I first walked into the business, it was quite an unkept secret. So a big part of my role was kind of really shining a light on the brilliant content that was there.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

I think, you know, you probably agree on this, David. A lot of the networks out there do not offer that level of training and development, that ability to sort of lock into some centralized training and development. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

I think certainly from an advisor point of view, what we see in the marketplace is that people focus really well on one particular area and they're very good at it. But what we've built out is kind of support from right from the very start from Academy, right the way through to those people that are looking to find their next generation of business owners and making sure that they can move their business on successfully.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Well, let's face it, you know, growing a business, wearing so many hats, recruitment is one of them, training and development is one of them, running a business, doing absolutely everything. So being able to offer that support, that development, the um direction, I guess, and the signposting of how to build a business. And you've taken it a step further because you've got the academy. Yeah. So it's even training them from scratch, right? Yeah. So that's pretty cool. So there's a few phases to this academy. So let's get straight into it. Yeah. So we've got phase one. Um tell us a little bit about phase one of the academy then. What what are you doing in that in that phase? And and David, we'll get involved into how you get stuck into that as well for open work.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah. So phase one of the open work academy is more about the individual and the skills that they're bringing. So the things that we'll look at there is um their personality profiling to start off with, to understand a bit more about themselves and how they operate. They will look at business planning. So making sure that people understand the business of financial planning, whether they're an employed role or not, it is still a business for them to think about. And then we think about things like introducing behavioural finance to really help people understand um the connection they need to build with their clients. I love it. From that phase, that's where David and Rebel Advance come in. So I'll probably hand over to you for the qualifications piece.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yeah, happy to. So that's um in terms of that's our bread and butter, Sam, right? So um we're very privileged to run the Open Work Academy, and it's an academy actually that's run at scale. Um I think this year we're looking at somewhere in the region of about 100, 120 delegates, something like that, that will move through the academy. So that's about seven to ten cohorts approximately over the year that we're going to run through of 10 to 15 people. Um and the academy is all about technical qualification. So this is as I say, it's our bread and butter, it's what we do in the market for many academies. And for open work, it's a specific journey that we take them through as part of that qualification framework. So within open work, we start with R01, so that's regulation and ethics. Um, it's a very broad subject, but it's not a particularly deep subject. Um, I'd go as far as saying, if I'm being totally honest, it's as dry as toast, but it's the pillar, it's a foundation of the diploma. Um actually, I've recently sat that Sam. I've uh I've gone through it again just to have a look at it, and I can again confirm it as as dry as toast. Um so it's an interesting one, but the programme that we have, um it takes you through it in a very structured manner and we we try and liven it up a little bit. But R01's the entry point. We then move on to R05, which is protection. And interestingly, actually, for the people that are listening, um R05 is the only level three qualification in what is a level four framework. Um, so R05 and R01 together, we tend to find that they're quite successful, they're high pass rates. And I would actually go as far as saying that's market wide. Um, you know, we tend to find that those particular parts of the qualification and we see high pass marks in those. And it builds confidence for the delegates because it's they're a third through their diploma. So at that point, we can say, you know, you're a third through your diploma. It's amazing. We then take them through R0 and R03, and actually those two papers really gel together extremely well. It's investments and tax. And you see a lot of commonality in both of those papers. So you could do three and two, but for open work, we go two and then three. And at that point, um, well, actually, internally we call it the we call it the Bon Jovi metric because they're halfway there. So yeah, I know, right, I know, I know. But we do. So um, but you're halfway through, so you're 50% way through your qualification at that point. And we then take them to R04, which is pensions. You know, pensions is a paper in its own right. Really interesting. I love pensions, but it's definitely a paper in its own right. And finally, R06, which are the case studies, and it's the closest thing really to financial planning you're going to get. You're taking all your technical learning through Arrow 1 to Arrow 5, and you're applying it in a case study um environment. And that works really well for the open work academy.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah, love it. Okay, so time-wise, how are delegates spending their time? Is it classroom-based? Is it is it online? How are you opening the doors for people doing this qualification training?

Phase One Skills And Mindset

SPEAKER_03 9:00

So we are a digital first provider. So, in terms of how we run our academies, um, it is self-study, so and blended with classroom and tutor training, but it's all done on a virtual basis. So, all of our content is structured inside a learning management system. Um, each of the ARO modules, there's lots of different types of learning in there, and that's really to cater for all learning types. So, we actually spoke about this, I think, in our last podcast that we did together, Sam, that um, you know, the different types of learners kinesthetic, audio, visual. So, in terms of our digital learning content, it caters for all of those learning styles. It's really important. Um, and you'll find videos to watch, you'll find testing to do, you'll find PDFs to read, you'll find e-learning to interact with. But it's digital, so there's a period of self-study. And what we do week on week is we bring those individuals into the virtual classroom setting and they get time with our tutors. And that's where we get to wrap our arms around them. That's a safe space for them to really talk about any issues they're having, if there's anything they're struggling with, if there's anything they want to really focus in on. And our trainers, obviously, in those sessions will look out for those cues as well in terms of those delegates that are maybe struggling a little bit. And then finally at the end, we bring them into a virtual classroom so they get a day or two days depending on the programme. And that's really the icing on the cake, it's bringing everything together. So the program is all done online via a learning management system, digital study, study, lots of different learning assets in there, and we wrap our arms around them with our charter trainers.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

I love it. Helen, if let's say, for example, you've got a ton of delegates who are going through the process, um, from your perspective, how do you know where somebody is in the process um through their qualifications and whether or not they are struggling?

SPEAKER_01 10:40

This is such an important question, Sam. Thank you. Because I think before I knew about David and Rev and their proposition, we were doing training the traditional way. So people were given the good old manuals and they were working on them. The difficulty from that, from a um an academy standpoint, but also from a general training standpoint, is you don't really understand what the learner experience is when they're going through that. From my experience of working with systems like Red Mills, I can go in and see from the background exactly how far somebody's progressing through a module. Right. So I can see if somebody hasn't been in and they haven't done any learning for a couple of days, for example. And that enables me to empower trainers to say, well, don't put your arms around that delegate, see what's happening, see what's what's holding up. Is there something something here that we really need to understand and know about? Equally, we can go in and we can have a look at the scores because there's so many exams now, aren't there? Yeah. Um, that people can do on that system. For me, like testing is so important in this. It's really easy to absorb yourself in all that technical learning and think, oh, I'll know the answers, the questions that'll be fine. Practice questions is the secret to getting through your RO exams. I think we'll probably agree on that.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

100%.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

So having that understanding of where people are getting on just enables you to give them the nudge to get a tutor involved if we're seeing kind of consistently not great results.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Okay, cool. Where in the journey where someone starts their qualifications, Hannah's in the corner, she's listening, she's going through her qualifications at the moment. When should people start leaning to those practice questions?

SPEAKER_03 12:13

So, in terms of, I'll answer that, Helen. In terms of the way that um our programs are laid out, there is testing at the end of each module. Right. And really that's about embedding that learning. So you've gone through um, you know, reading, you've gone through e-learning, you've gone through watching videos, and it's broken down into modules, and each module focuses on key parts of the syllabus. And we always test on those key parts of the syllabus at the end, and that's reinforcing the learning. It's reinforcing the learning you've learned from that particular module or that particular week. And that testing continues throughout the programs. There's that end of module testing, and then we have full mock exams at the end. And actually, just to circle back a little bit to what Helen was saying, because the data is actually really important. It's really important from a client's perspective to understand, you know, how people are interacting with that content. Are they interacting with that content? Are they reading it all the way through? How far through are they? And as Helen said, it's it's critically important when it comes to the exams, the testing. Are they hitting the numbers that they should? Because that would indicate that they probably need a little bit of extra support. But what we do is we actually look at that data as well as a learning provider, because it's really good cues for us as well. And we can look across with academies at scale, um, we are running multiple cohorts of 10, 15 individuals, sometimes 20 individuals in a cohort. It gives us a really unique opportunity to actually look at the results that are coming out the back of that testing. And if we see trends as a learning provider, so for example, there seems to be a common thread where people aren't doing so well in IHT, that's actually a really good indicator for us that we have to look at that part of our content. We have to consider whether we've got that right, perhaps enhance it, perhaps put extra videos in there, perhaps think about that from a tutoring perspective. So the data is not only really good for the clients and critical for the clients because it helps us support the delegates better, it's critical for us as a learning provider because it helps us improve our content as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

I love that. The speed of changing something that doesn't work through feedback. Yeah. And you guys work together in that capacity to ensure that that happens quickly to the next delegates come through, or even somebody who's just a little bit behind, is going to get that swift change that's going to improve the process, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah, and it's about open communication between as a partnership, right? And that's that is truly a partnership.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Do you see that you see that as a partnership between you two at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Without a shadow of a doubt. So, you know, um, what I've found working with Red Mill is that it isn't a cookie-cutter approach. Right. So, for example, within the open work academy, we support mortgage and protection advisors as well as people that want to go on and do their full wealth qualification.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

So if there's somebody on our academy and maybe they have the ambition to be a wealth advisor to start off with, but they've started their ROs, they've done R01, R05, they've done CF6. If they want to hop off the bus at that point, we will fully support them doing that. That's a really good example, I think, where I've worked differently to how I've worked with Redmill in the past about how that works. Yeah. So, um, which is really good to see because it's about understanding the people that we've got on what's the right thing for them because ultimately that's going to be the right thing for their clients.

The R0 Exam Roadmap

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Yeah. And I mean, the partner is definitely a partnership, Sam. It's how we operate as a business in terms of working with our clients truly in partnership. But I mean, what does that really mean? You know, it means that we've built a respect and trust for each other, that actually Helen's not scared to give me feedback now and actually come and say, Well, actually, Dave, you know, this isn't quite right, or we've noticed this. And that to us is golden. It's absolutely critical because it gives us the opportunity to really then improve upon, you know, the the product that we have, the delivery of this, the training that we're giving to those delegates. Um, but that's what partnership is about to me. It's about two-way communication, being very open, trusting each other, and actually feeding back both ways.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yeah, I can probably bring that to life with a bit of an example if that helps. So one of the times we were working together and we found that um a particular cohort, we felt actually just having the the digital content and the training at the end isn't quite where are we missing the mark? And from discussions together, we came up with a solution of well, let's, you know, let's look at how Red Mill might be able to help us resource weekly drop-ins. Yeah. And I remember at the time it was a kind of that's a big ask, Helen. Yeah, that's a big ask. Let me go and look at it. Yeah. So there's never been a time when David's just kind of gone, look, this, no, no, I'm overcommitted. I'm out. It's a let me take it away. This is a big one, and and we will we'll look at it. Um, and that level of honesty has always been really, really helpful, I think, in that relationship.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah, and that's actually a great example because um the way that our academies are structured now include those weekly surgeries, but that was actually because of feedback in those early years um from Helen. So that's golden, honestly, getting that type of feedback and that that um real honest feedback about what's best for the delegates. Because at the end of the day, Sam, we've all got the delegates' interests in mind. I mean, our job is to get them through their exams and get the best first-time pass rates that we can. Um, but we've both got the same goal. Um, so that two-way communication and feedback is critical to the success, certainly, of the open work academy.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, I love it. You're a specialist in what you do, which is getting people through those exams and passing those qualifications, whatever they might well be, because it's not just RO exams that Redmond Advance uh deliver training on, is it? You do the CISI, you do, yeah, an IBF.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Well, we do um level three, level four, and level six is the first thing to say. So it's not just about um uh the diploma journey. That's pretty typical in academies that we take people through the diploma, but we have chartered level academies, you know, people that want to progress into that chartered um advisor uh status. We can support that and we do support that. Okay. And you're right across the professional bodies as well. We support the CII route, we support the CISI route, and we support the LIBF route. With open work, we um it's the CII route that we go down and it's the regulated diploma and financial planning. So the R01 to R06.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Oh, sorry for interrupting the Financial Planner Life podcast. I hope you're enjoying it. Now, if you think that you would like to be a guest on the podcast, because you have a product, a service, or a business that you would like to promote, maybe you want to attract some new talent to your business, there is a link in the comments where you can actually apply to come on the Financial Planner Life podcast. You get that full end-to-end experience that you're so used to from the Financial Planner Life Studios. And if you feel like you've got a podcast that you'd like to start, or maybe a video project, again, click the link in the comments section and book a meeting, and let's discuss that project and get it going in 2026. Now, back to the show. Being able to use Red Mill, does that free you up as an academy to then put resources into uh skills and behaviours that make the financial planner? We know qualifications are required, but we also know skills and behaviours are really important. There's a terminology you said to me a little while back, skill stacking. And it's at stage one that you start to do this. Is that sort of how this operates? Like they take care of that side. You can focus your energy and tension on the skill stacking around the behaviours. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

That's how we work it in in open work. So there's um there's different facets to our academy. For the employed academy, so those people that are employed by the open work partnership work in our partnership services function uh run by Anna Bartholomew, they do skill stacking from day one. So whilst they spend a little bit of time in the classroom in that first phase that I mentioned, they'll also be sitting next to existing advisors, existing power planners, existing admins in the office. So they're learning those practical skills as well as having the tutor-led sessions as well. Okay. And whilst they're doing their RO journey with Redmill, it the same thing happens. So they're not in the books kind of or on the digital content, I should really say, nine to five. Actually, outside of that, they are working next to other people. And we have kind of coaches that are around them to help them on their journey. So, yeah, it's just learning things gradually and doing it, I think, in a much more sustainable way than kind of cramming in a classroom for for you know X amount of days about, you know, come out of this and you will be the best listener in the world. It's about, well, no, how do we gradually build that up?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

So we're talking on-the-job training, skills and behaviors, classroom-based, and support in respect of qualifications. We haven't even got, we haven't got out of stage one yet. No. Yeah. So this is some serious support. Serious support. Good. That is very, very good to hear because anybody's listening to this, they're worried, you know, second careerists wanting to move into the financial planning profession. It could be young individuals embarking on a new career. They hear horror stories of how tough it can actually be going into smaller firms, for example, and maybe not getting the level of support required, really, and the investment needed to be able to progress through quite quickly but confidently to become a financial planner. Now, I just want to stop at phase one a second, because I think we just need to also address why academies.

unknown 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

You know, why are they so important in the profession right now? So let's take that one head on and then we'll go back to the phases and start talking a little bit more about it. Because we're also going to talk about whether or not he's self-employed or employee, right? Yeah. So let's let's just talk about like why academies, you know, let's just tackle that one. What do you what do you think, Helen?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

For me, it's it's about that advisor gap. It really is. I think all of us, no matter which position we're in within um financial services, we recognise that there is an aging demographic um in advisors, and we need to we need to feel that, and we need to feel that at scale. That's why we've seen across the profession so much investment in our in our young people. So with the open work academy, our average age is now 36, which is dramatically different from um from the you know the rest of kind of the I mean, you've got the figures on it, haven't you, David? Probably add some colour to that.

Digital Learning And Practice Testing

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, if you zoom out and you talk about the advice gap, what we're talking about here is that there's not enough financial advisors in the market to satisfy that need of consumer advice. Um so I was looking at this recently, actually. I was looking at um recent, a recent survey done by FT. So it's a very credible source. And it was the end of 2025, and it was saying that there's approximately 35,000 financial advisors in the market. And I would agree that's probably broadly right, give or take, 5%. You know, we're probably there or thereabouts in terms of the amount of financial advisors. That sounds like a big number, but it's not when you look at it much broader. Um, you know, it's really well documented. Helen mentioned it, that the average age of that 35,000 pool of financial advisors is 55 plus Sam. Um, I was reading a really scary statistic actually, um, and this was a great bit of research done by the LANCAT. Um, and this research was actually just recently published, and they looked at a cross-section and um they seen that 6,500 of those 35,000 advisors were age 60 or over. Now, that's one-fifth of that total pool of 35,000 advisors. Conversely, which I think is an a really telling stat as well, um, is that from that pool um there was less than 200 advisors that were 25 or younger. So that tells us a couple of things, those statistics. It tells us that, well, first of all, a fifth of the advisory marketplaces is 60. If they're not retiring now, they're definitely going to be thinking about it. If the average age across those 35,000 is 55 plus, then we are facing into a serious issue in the next two to five years, let's say. And the other thing it tells us with the fact that there's only 200 advisors who are 25 or under, is that we're just not doing enough to attract young people into the profession. We're not doing enough at university level or school level to make financial services more attractive. Now, there was actually some more research. I actually it's worth taking a look at it if anybody's listening, because it goes on to identify the interview, some of those young individuals and what do they think the financial profession is. And it's actually really quite funny to hear some of the some of the um kind of chat that comes back from that. Um, but if we just zoom out on it just ever so slightly more, because I think this is really important uh in terms of there is a clearly an advisor gap there and there's a demographic issue. But why it's important is um there's 18 million, 18 and a half million consumers that need financial advice or need should be seeking financial advice. Currently, there's four and a half million people are getting that advice, so there's 13, 14 million people that just aren't getting any advice. It's crazy numbers, absolutely crazy numbers. If we have a retiring demographic, we have people that are screaming out for advice. There's not young, you know, young advisors coming through. And this is exactly what the academies in part are trying to solve. Um, you know, we are trying to find and support new industry entrants through really excellent, well-structured academies that don't just teach them the qualifications, but teach them the soft skills, the behaviors, the skills to be financial advisors. That's exactly what these academies are about and they're trying to solve. So, yeah, we have a major issue in the market, and and everybody knows it. And I'm happy to say that we are hopefully part of that solution, or at least they're trying to be.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, and can I pick up on just a couple of things that you said there, David? So it's really interesting. Um, I was hearing the other day that one of our um young people who's on the academy, Joe, so he's ex ex-military, and he said that his perception of financial advice when he first, even when he first started, was that it was all going to be about strategy and it was all going to be about figures. And what he's found is even just in the like couple of weeks that he's been on the academy, it's about humans.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

The job's about humans and the enthusiasm there and the light in the eye is there. And that's what I think is something that's really special. And I think the other thing that I notice is, you know, talking to many practice principals, you know, that those kind of 60, 50, 60 somethings, are passionate about art industry profession and they want to see it grow and they want to bring on young talent themselves, but they don't have the time to give them. And so what the academies are really good at doing is saying, brilliant, you recruit your brilliant people that you see, brilliant young talent, trust us in the academy to be able to develop them in the way that you need. So, for example, in open work, it's not just the employed model, they might be employed by a firm or they could even be self-employed by a firm. But the firm will trust us to use Red Mill to do the professional qualifications. And if they want the academy to provide the sales skills training, advice skills training is as we'd call it today. I'm showing my 30 years calling it sales skills, um, then we will do that. But equally, if a principal says, no, actually, you do the qualifications, I I want to, I want to kind of help that person grow in in the way that my firm does it. Yeah, we're here to support that flexibility too.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Really, really important. So you again, for the listener, you you you have an ecosystem, don't you, uh, of financial planning companies within open work, right? Protection, mortgage, and uh, and wealth. Yeah. So you you understand that on a scale where you can actually interact with those individual businesses of all different shapes and sizes. That's a fantastic thing. You mentioned a two plan. I'm really, really good friends of the guys at one financial. Yeah, you know, so I I I know the different shapes and sizes of those businesses that are that are there. Yeah. So you must also understand then the challenges a firm of a certain size would have trying to train and develop those people. So the solution that you're offering is if you're underneath our network, you're a firm of a certain size, whatever, yeah, we know you're gonna have some troubles. It is hard. You want to attract, use our academy and we'll help you grow. And you can pick apart it, you know, if you want just a qualification site. Yeah, brilliant. So that's a great I know I love that. Are you finding people within within the open work network? Are they leaning into it?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

That's where the academy in open work was born, actually. Right. It was born from firms recruiting their own advisors and leaning into the centre for the academy to provide the training. And it's only this year that we've branched out and started our kind of internal intake to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Great. Perfect timing then, because you touched on employed, you touched on self-employed. Okay. A lot of the academies out there are geared towards self-employment. Yep. Yeah. So not many out there geared towards employed, you can probably count them on one hand. We're starting to see a few more come through. Yeah, we are, yeah, definitely. Tell us about this academy then. Who is it open for? You talked about self-employed and employed, and go on and tell me what if they're employed, what's what's a starting salary, for instance?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah, so the starting salary is from uh 37,755 is the starting salary for a wealth advisor.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I mean, that's a really good salary to start a career within financial planning.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Considering that you're going to be trained to become a professional advisor. Yeah. And have access to such a huge marketplace.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

David was talking about. I mean, at that level, I think is a great starting salary and it should be attracting more people into our industry. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

I think I do know what people say, like, you know, what do we think is a good starting salary for a trainee advisor? And I think actually it is an incredibly reasonable salary for somebody starting out that will give them confidence that they're entering a profession that is financially going to cover their costs and things, you know, because there is a cost associated to this, right? You've got to pay your bills and everything. And it is a professional job. Yes. You know, it's funny, isn't it? You know, expecting all these people in what we call professional services to start self-employed all the time.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

It's not for everybody. For some, it's fantastic. And I have some great success stories in some of these academies that have the self-employed route. It makes total sense, right? But not everybody wants to go self-employed, especially um young people. You know, it's too much of a risk.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

You know, I know they don't, you know, you can't move on Instagram or whatnot. If you're an entrepreneur and running your own business and got seven companies on the side, then you're making it in life. Yeah. But actually, the reality of it is it's a tough job financial planning, and you do need a financial security whilst you're going through the process. So love that. Kudos on that one.

Why Academies Matter Right Now

SPEAKER_03 29:52

I think it's an interesting point to raise, actually, Sam, because um there are lots of options in terms of um different routes into the industry. I mean, it's such a rich profession that we work in, and you're right, you know, for entrepreneurially minded individuals, um you can go self-employed. But actually, what that is maybe um, if I may, uh better suited to is perhaps second careerists because maybe they've had a successful career. They want to build something themselves within financial services, that self-employed route could could very well be right for them. I think if we are as a profession looking to do more to attract younger generations in, so that you know, 200 people, 25 or below, it definitely is not for everybody, um, but it's definitely more challenging, I would say, for someone of that age to think about growing something, think about growing their own business and all the challenges that come with that. So you're right in what you said. I have seen more employed options coming into the market. I think the Open Work Academy is fantastic for that in terms of some of the options internally. Um, and it's it's brilliant to see because hopefully it'll do um what we hope it'll do, which is attract some of those younger generations in.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

And what's really interesting, just to come in there, my new role in OWL Financials, that OWL is a very different business in UK financial services. So it focuses on protection advice and it focuses on bringing protection advice to local communities, multicultural communities. So we have over 26 different nationalities working with OWL. Wow. And the re the reason I mention that is that we have a much younger demographic too. And interestingly, I was talking to a young man the other day. He only graduated this time last year. He's a self-employed full-time protection advisor, and he's been phenomenally successful in his first 12 months through sheer talking to people in his local community, understanding the real need for protection. You know, 86% of people in the UK have no income protection. I mean, financial resilience is a real issue in the UK. He is switched on to this and is making huge successes. And I'm delighted to say that he's going on to do his mortgage qualifications and he wants to be a wealth advisor. So for me, this is the young talent that we cannot ignore. There are some real, there are some, I'm sure you will, there are some real entrepreneurial people throughout our communities within the UK. And I think um it's really easy for us to think all you people, all young people want the easy ticket of a salary. I say easy, you know, um very, very loosely. Um there are people that are super hungry, super entrepreneurial, that are up for the challenge and that will do it that way too.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

I also think, you know, if it would I mean in respect of protection advice, it's so needed and it's so impactful. It's a positive impact um job, right? You're gonna protect families, right? Someone dies in a family, you know, there's no protection in place, horrendous. Yeah, yeah. They can cause some serious problems. So being able to have that purpose where you go out and you are protecting families in whatever capacity, I think is is admirable. So it's good to hear that. Um, you you spoke to me before me, you spoke previously about um a sort of specific kind of niche, I suppose, of of people who who who work for OWL almost part-time. Um, and it's also a great link into perhaps getting more females as well into the profession. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

OWL, I'm very proud to say, is literally 50-50. Literally 50-50. So it is a beautiful business to work in in that respect. And what we have is people are protection advisors, and many of our advisors do have other incomes. Um, for example, there's many of our Filipino community who are advisors who are also nurses, but they need additional income. Because they are nurses and they work in the medical profession. Boy, do they understand the need for protection. They see the impact on families when family members don't have protection. So if you want people that are passionate and understand the purpose and the real reason why they're giving advice, boy, does that unlock that key. And of course, as people build up their expertise and they build up, you know, their experience. Um, and if they have the desire to, then of course they, you know, then then we help them kind of look at well, what would your business plan be if you wanted to do this um full time? So there's a full range of people.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Do they ever sort of do they ever sort of open their mind up also to the complexities of the NHS pension and then start thinking about, well, actually, like, you know, I I've got an NHS pension, um, it's quite complex. Um, perhaps there's an opportunity for me to advise on pensions.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Do you ever get anybody's sort of Yeah, absolutely, and we'd really fully support people putting them through their their qualifications and moving into one of our firms in the network to go um and give mortgage or wealth advice? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

When you when you're going through those phases and you said you can get on the bus, you can drive the bus along, you can go all the way to being a wealth advisor, but you can jump off at any point, whether that's protection or mortgage. Um, do you often get people jump off and go into protection? And if so, how long do they tend to stay there before they might jump back on the bus?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, so um we do definitely have people that are kind of careerists in protection. And um, you know, I I've been my background's very much wealth management. So moving um into the protection sector has really opened my eyes to just how complex protection advice can be these days. Just the plethora of choice out there in um, you know, from the different providers is incredible. Yeah, so it is a profession in its own right, and we also see a lot of wealth advisors don't touch protection.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

No.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

And it's a real, it's a real miss. So I think there's a huge opportunity. And what we see a lot is referrals from mortgage advisors to wealth advisors, and vice versa. And having that trusted relationship, I think it's really important. Love that.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

I mean, from a learning perspective, Sam, I can probably attest to that as well. I mean, protection is hugely important. Um, absolutely, it's the absolute foundation of financial planning. But actually, in terms of our CPD proposition, the protection CPD that we have, it's so widely used. Um, so widely used. And actually, you spoke about NHS pensions. We have pensions master classes that touch in on that type of stuff. Well, I only say that because again, it's so um so important and so well used. Actually, two things have happened to me in the past, and I think it really hits home around the whole protection message and just affirms what Helen's saying. And actually, one thing was my financial advisor back in the day um refused ultimately to give me any investment advice until I had sorted out all my protections, which I think is amazing, and it was absolutely the right thing to do, and because of that, I've got great protection in place and I understand the importance of it. But it's such a huge market um protection. And actually, one other thing, because I think it's it's quite good that when I was originally back in the day, I was always trained back in the um late 90s uh to do this. Whenever I sat down with a client, um, because I was an advisor a long time ago, um, was to ask the simple question of do you plan to die before you retire or retire before you die? Because in either case, you're gonna need to fix your pension or your protection. But let's start with your protection. And that stuck with me for 30 years, and actually it's just such an important thing because one of those events is definitely going to happen first. Yeah. Um, so protection is massively important, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

I think um when I was working for a vivo, I was a trainer uh Viva years ago before I became like a recruitment owner. Um and I always hammered home it was it was protection, pension, and then investment.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Yeah.

Employed Versus Self-Employed Routes

SPEAKER_00 37:15

So, like, you know, what happens if you die? What are you gonna do when you're older? And if the only left over talk about investments, yeah. I think you kind of like the wealth management has kind of gone the other way where it's like, let's, you know, if we've got any money to invest because of the model, I guess. And I understand that, um, but it does leave a huge amount of opportunity. And there's so many financial advisors that swear by protection having that conversation. It's such a great opportunity for you for young people, uh, anybody coming into the profession to really open up those conversations. Yes, they are difficult conversations. Now, if anyone's listening to this and they want a little bit of extra knowledge, of course, you've got Redmond Advance that can provide that training or academies like yourself. We produce the just covered podcasts for Legal in General. So on there, you get lots of financial planners, lots of mortgage advisors, protection advisors sharing stories around protection. Yeah. And how they position protection, how they use it in principle to actually get people to buy into it. One of the most amazing stories was one of the ladies who actually works in the marketing department at Legal in General, she lost her husband. It was very sad. But she came on the podcast and spoke about it, and it was such a raw and emotional story. I mean, there were tears and everything, you know. We were sat in the corner going, Oh my god. It was so sad. She's now married. She's got you know the next stage of her life going on. She's got children, it's looked after, the house is paid for. In fact, she didn't even talk about the house being paid for, she talked about the time that was left being spent together as a family, going on holidays, you know, how that they they think they had an extension built or something whilst he was there because it allowed them to have more space together in his later stage of life. And it was it's such an emotive kind of sell. And it's not manipulation, it's positive affirmation, isn't it? You know, it's it's good. So yeah, I'm really pleased you guys talked about that. And you know, it's just something that I think that you know, as as as as Hannah goes through the process of becoming a financial planner and we talk about it, you know, I want her to get the best training and development around protection advice because I just think it's going to give her the solid foundations about to have high-level EQ conversations with clients that are in the things that matter the most, their family. Yeah. And I think it's really, really important. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

I think I would just say as well, actually, I love the way you spoke about that, Sam, because you're so so passionate about it. And I wonder if that comes from your trainer background, because that's definitely compliment and kudos to your trainers, David. That's what comes across in their training. So it's not just the dry technical, this is this is what you need to know to pass the exam. It's about actually, does anyone here know any live examples of how this would work? Let me tell you about this story that I know about and let me let me bring this to life for you. And that's what makes the difference. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

And it is about bringing it to life like that, isn't it? Through good training. Yeah, that 100%.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

You need time. You need time to train people, and this is what you're building is the ability, the time. You're taking the pressure off with the employed package, the employed route, expert trainers who deliver on the areas they're experts in. So leaning into each other as well, which I absolutely love. Right, brilliant. Let's go back to the stages. Let's go to stage two now or phase two. And someone's gone through the process, they've got their level four qualifications. Helen, what's next?

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, so that's really um with the employed route. So when people are employed at the center, that's where they would be full-time giving advice um to clients um day in, day out, but also sitting alongside more experienced advisors. So they're never on their own. It's probably worth um mentioning that there is a manager within um their kind of framework who is almost a kind of a coach to them. Love that. Sort of sitting alongside them because we all know from our experience that this isn't a kind of um a straightforward journey that kind of goes, you know, like that. It all of our careers are wiggly, aren't they? They all go, they all go up and down. And working with clients is, you know, there's that there's lots of highs and there's lots of bits so where you have to be really super resilient. So they've got that support that's around them.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

So what can happen is people have got some choice here. So they can stay with the center and they can continue to um uh uh advise and service new clients and existing clients from the center. Or they could choose to kind of jump off and be brave and to establish their own firm. Right. And we provide them with support and training from our root to principle program about how you can really set yourself up for success. Because what we've seen, I think we've probably all seen this, is there are so many brilliant but accidental business owners in financial planning. Um what we want to create is brilliant, intentional business owners.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

I love that. So one thing's gone there, having a mentor in the business, that's fantastic. So every step of the way, again, identificing identifying anybody's who's struggling, uh support, whether it be emotionally, um uh signposting to the right direction in respect of extra learning, CBDs, yeah, all that typical type of stuff. So that's really good to hear. Love the fact that someone can start employed, and you're telling me that if all of a sudden they feel brave enough, they could actually go, do you know what? Can I forego the salary and can I have a go at building my own business and becoming a principal? You tell me that's okay. Yeah, yeah.

unknown 42:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Do they have to for so they have to um do they have to see out of contracts? Is there like 12, 24 months before they do that? When you know, what's the rules?

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, so typically, so there's no kind of fixed rules around how we how we do these things because we want to treat people, you know, as individuals, and you know, if we try and box people in, it's it's it's not gonna be healthy for everybody. But what we we do try and do is look at okay, if this is where you want to go, how can we set you up the best for success? Now, obviously, we would want to see them stay within the open work framework, set up their AR. So that's why we support them super well, so that they're confident that they they would do that with us.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

In the ecosystem, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Absolutely, stay within the ecosystem. And so, what we'll do is we put them through a 12-month route to principle program that will cover absolutely everything from what do you look like as a business owner? You know, why are you why are you doing this? Why are you making that that leap of faith? And what is it that you really want to build here? And then we'll look at the kind of nuts and bolts of it, really understanding the levers that people can pull within their business to um to make it grow and to succeed. And we'll look at things like, you know, your first hire. So, you know, are you gonna do this on your own? Are you gonna have a power planner or an administrator? And how are you gonna go about hiring that person? What's the culture in your business gonna be? What do you want that to look like? So all of these kind of rich things we'll take them through in that 12-month period. Right. So they're really set up properly for success moving forward for their business.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

And these things are really important when you're running and owning a business, Sam. I mean, we recognise this as well. Part of our proposition covers leadership training. And actually, and I I separate these leadership and management trainings. Leadership is more the entrepreneurial parts of running a business, um, whereas management is maybe more about the practical aspects of management. Teams and things like that. But we also recognize actually that these skills are hugely important. And that's why we have them in our armory. Anyone that is taking the first steps to running their own business, it's not there's lots of balls to juggle when you're doing that. And actually, some of these kind of core skills are hugely important.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Have you ever identified somebody early on in the process who is a natural-born business leader but lacks the confidence? And you've actually almost kind of lit a fire underneath them to help them move towards business the business principle route. Have you ever done that together or not? Or is that something you just let them feel out for themselves?

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Well, what I can say is we've trained thousands of delegates through qualifications over the years. And we talk about this stuff internally all the time because the tutors are in the classroom with these trainees. But what we do is we debrief kind of week to week and with the tutors and we understand to make sure actually if anybody needs any extra support in the classroom, we're seeing those early signs. But we always have these conversations, Sam, which is candidate delegate X is absolute born leader, you know, absolutely going to fly through this program and go on to set up. Um delegate Y probably needs a little bit more support. How can we wrap our arms around them? So actually, because we've trained thousands of people, we absolutely um can identify those that we believe are are probably going to fly and set up. And actually, we've seen some people that go on and have very successful careers as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

And just on that point, slightly different one though, but just about picking up on the different different delegates. I know there's been several occasions, David, where you've picked the phone up to me and said one of our teachers has noticed that particular candidate is is is struggling a little bit. Yeah. We think they might have some learning differences. Is there anything that you know? And we'll look and say, well, there's nothing on our nothing's been disclosed to us, but what they've enabled us to do is to have really subtle but but good, deep conversations with people where we have actually uncovered they've had additional learning needs, but have been a bit embarrassed about them and felt that it might have affected their chances of being successful, which isn't the case, I have to have to say absolutely. But that's where your trainers have picked up the mantle. I remember one instance in particular where we had a conversation and I said, Well, can you train and have a chat with them? Now I was expecting this is going to be a 10-minute chat, you know, you're dyslexic, right? Okay, we treat you this way. No, no, no. This was a full-on, deep conversation with that individual, and they had a whole different learning plan because of it. Um, so that's the level of support that is available. And that was when you were working, you know, at considerable scale.

Protection Advice And New Talent

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Yeah, no, absolutely, Helen, and that's our job. I mean, that's the tutors are there to kind of feel out those situations, but it comes back to partnership where it's really important that we are talking, you know, as a kind of client and provider and partnership around these things because people are all individual, they're different. Um, and actually, um we are in a privileged position that we get to recognize that as we're running them through training. It could be the simple cues, um, like the trainers are coming back and feeding back to um us internally and saying, well, uh, you know, delegate A had their camera off for two hours of the day, or delegate B didn't switch it on at all, or delegate C was actually a little bit quiet. And I know that she wanted to ask questions, but she wasn't doing it. And they'll go and they'll prod and they'll prompt and they'll actually pick up conversations with those delegates directly. And we will feed it back and we will say, look, we're maybe a little bit concerned here, or we've had a conversation there, and we've discovered this, and perhaps that is some additional um needs, you know, around dyslexia or dyspraxia or something like that. And these things are really, really important. And actually that's the difference between it's the difference between running exams and actually running in partnership real academies where we're properly feeding in in partnership with our clients, where we're identifying this stuff and feeding it back.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

You also fine. I had somebody and um went through another academy who's been on my podcast, a chap called Dan, you might might know him actually. Um Dyslexia. Dyscalchia, is it? Well yeah, problem with numbers like me. Dyscal dyscalchia, how he came to say it. Dyscalculia, is that it?

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

ADHD, yeah, which is similar to me as well. I've been diagnosed with ADHD. And he never thought he could be a financial planner. Not in a million years did he think he could become a financial planner. Yeah. But with the right support in place, he is, and he's thriving. And he's not really self-employed. Yeah. So it people who are listening to this who feel that maybe they can't do it because they feel that they're um learning challenges, differences. I love the way you said differences, not difficulties, by the way. Loved that, picked up on that. Um, I think look, you can look past that because if you've got the level of um ambition, EQ, and willingness to learn, then the right ecosystem and academy will uh support you, not shame you. They will help you. And that's a really, really important thing, isn't it? And also I love the fact you've got these eyes and ears there, because it's almost like vulnerable clients, isn't it? When you're given advice, it's like vulnerable learners. And the last thing you want is somebody who's given up something or uh embarked on a journey and feel like they're getting left at a wayside. But like school, if you don't pass this curriculum in the right way and answer the questions in this way, then you're not a great learner. So hang about, we all learn differently, thanks, right. Absolutely. Yeah, so you're setting it up, and also I guess when you do that, there should be an eagerness for you to create a solution for somebody that has a different learning style because you can then create the blueprint for the next person coming through. And then it is fully inclusive.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

I love that. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

And and ultimately, Sam, we see ourselves as an extension of the client. I have an acute awareness that when we're in that classroom and we're delivering that training, we're doing it on behalf of, you know, as part of that academy, that client academy, the open work academy. And as such, you know, what we do reflects on our client, on open work. Um, and it's really, really important that we're delivering in a way that is actually caring and we're wrapping our arms around those delegates. I think it's hugely important. Great stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

You said about the center. Just just let's just give some people some context. So again, like I'm just going to play the part of an employee person. I've gone through my process, I've had my salary, I'm going through the learning. I'm also spending my time in the center. I'm alongside administrators, power planners, um, coaches, trainers, um, which is brilliant. Yeah. But I'm trying to get my head around a center. Does that mean I'm in somebody's business underneath open work, or does it mean I'm I'm separate? I'm in a head office. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yeah, so it is our head office environment. So and we've actually got well kind of two centers, um, but it's where our kind of main um, I guess you should call it our operations hub for open work in Swindon. So within that, we have um a department called Um Partnership Services, which is kind of the hub of where the academy people sit. But we've also got that's where um the likes of I am for our Fountain Financial, it's where we've got our um training and competency team, it's where we've got our um quality checkers, you name it, business schools sit there. So that's that's where they kind of sit within that that full centre. We've also got some um mortgage and protection advisors with the partnership services team that are based up in our two-plan offices in Leeds as well. So it gives some flexibility in terms of um locations there.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

But equally, other people through the academy might be from a firm. So it may be that they're working within their firm as well and kind of coming to us, if you like, for their learning.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

So one of the big things that always comes up is when you want to become a financial planner, there's always a competent advisor sign-off. And people get quite nervous about that. Um what do you do around competent advisor sign-off? And one of the biggest things as well when somebody becomes a financial planner, and especially when you have to kind of eat what you you you kill that mentality of going out and you have to prospect and find new business and everything along those lines, which can add another level of pressure if you're going down a self-employed route. But what do you do? Do you do you do you have a bank of clients that you then pass on to that advisor? Do you do do they do they have to go out and prospect and win their own business? Um, and how does the cash sign offs you know work?

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Yeah, so from the the employed um perspective, we will provide them with the clients. So that could be with some of the clients that that we have within open work, or it could be that it's some of our firms, maybe, um, maybe some of our firms are they've got low resourcing for whatever reason and they want to lean into the centre to help advise their clients while they're you know while they're sorting out some other resource problems. So there's there's always kind of clients for them to be to be looking after. We have dedicated training and competency managers that will help them through their sign-off process. So if we described it in terms of so if somebody comes to us first of all and they do those kind of um personal bits I spoke about, so their personality profiling, the business planning, the um behavioral finance qualifications, and then they'll do their skills piece. And while they're doing their skills training, that will include their licenses within open work to enable them to be able to be competently advised on our products and services. And that's the point where they'll start to look at CAS.

Phase Two CAS And Route To Principal

SPEAKER_03 52:51

I think it's probably a key point on CAS, actually, Sam, is that I mean, if if we think about CAS as essentially the company that that individual is working for, saying, okay, the training wheels are off and you can go out and you can advise and not be under supervision. So it's a process to ensure that the uh client is comfortable with them out advising. Um and really when you break it down, that's about risk. It's about risk for the client. You know, is this person able to go out? Are we deeming them as competent to deliver advice? And what's great about the academies, great about open work, great about other academies, is that caste process is woven into the academy structure. And it's it's really important because if someone goes out and they self-study um and they run through arrow one to arrow six um of their own accord and they get their ticket to the game, they get their qualification, it can be difficult for them to go out to market and actually find an you know a financial advice role and because of that uh cast process. Whereas inside academies like open work, as I say, it's it's woven into that process. And it doesn't actually feel like you're going through a process to be signed off as competent, because that entire academy process, um, right through, let's say, if it's 12 months, you know, you are inside an environment that's wrapping its arms around you, you're really bonding with your colleagues, you're bonding with your managers, the TNC individuals that are signing you off. It feels just part of that overall structure, that overall academy structure. So with CAS, I think that there's probably if you're out and you're self-studying and you're getting that qualification, it can actually be more challenging for you to go and you know, find a role off your own back. Whereas if you're joining a great academy, like the many academies that are out there, like open work, is woven innaturally to that process.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

Genuinely sounds brilliant, doesn't it? Sounds like a partnership made in heaven, you see. I love it. Fantastic. It's so good to hear about positive, well-structured, um, flexible career development plans to get into the profession that can start with a basic salary. I think it's been so long where it's not had it, and it's been such a challenge to getting people into the profession. And the burden and the responsibility also landing on the shoulders almost of this aging population of businesses that it really is a cottage industry, right? It's it's it's not loads and loads of businesses of size that can actually invest in the next generation. So open work and that responsibility. Of course, you have a network of advisors, and I suspect they're probably average age that you've got to do something, you've got to do it. Um, and that's positive to see because it's only gonna have a positive impact on the profession as well. Helen, you have you play with a really straight bat. Everyone I talk to you, you're very honest and direct. You know, what's the best thing about David and the team there at Red Mill? Come on, don't forget this question, Sam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

What's the best thing? I think it is that follow-up, Sam. So um when we when we started working, you know, I'll be really honest. When we started to work um work more closely together, it was when we were going through a request for proposal um process, which is stressful for providers that are pitching, essentially, for a um for a firm to take on their work. Which is stressful when they're not really not at all, at all good. Um but during that process, all providers are gonna say, we'll give you amazing customer service. And I must admit that, you know, I'm a bit kind of of course you will. Of course you will. Because that's what people are always gonna say. What I've always seen is absolute follow-through on that. So where there have been things, because we have worked together for a long time, where things have missed a beat and skipped, I've always been able to pick the phone up to David and say, right, we've got a bit of a bit of a spicy issue here. Can we have a chat? Can we talk about it? And it's always, always, I was trying to think of anything that had been resolved like outside of 48 hours, and I don't think there's anything where you've not come back to me on that basis. One of my nervousness, so because I'd worked with David before, when I moved to open work and I was looking at, okay, well, how do we do professional qualifications here? How do we build at scale and kind of make sure that we've got, you know, a top class proposition for our learners? I knew that David was the right and Redmill was the right solution. And I had to be confident of that because I didn't want to put my per my professional reputation on the line with open work about recommending, you know, a provider. And one of the nervousness I had around that, so I was able to pick the phone, you know, up to David and say, Look, I'm looking at different providers in the marketplace. You guys have never let me down, but boy, are you at scale now. Like, you know, nice problem to have.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

But it's been phenomenally successful. So David and I were able to have that open conversation about tell me how you're still gonna give me that service. How is that actually gonna happen? So I think um there's something in about trusting that honest conversation, and you you know, you know whether people are really being honest with you on the back of that. So so that's that's what I would say. And and it's worked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

Well, the one thing that's for sure is Helen isn't scared to pick up the phone and say this is a bit of a spicy issue, and it's not quite and actually uh you may or may not remember this, but I certainly remember this. Um and it goes way back to 2019-20 when we're nervous now.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

No, no, it's good as good.

Partnership Standards And Closing

SPEAKER_03 58:09

Honestly, it was when we uh it was when we first uh launched actually the St. James's Place Academy, so back in the day, which were now we're still successfully uh running, it's a great academy. I'm happy to say that. Um but Helen was responsible for that at the time, and um, when we first launched it, we were probably a month, six weeks in, something like that. And there was a couple of things that weren't going quite quite as to plan. And uh I'll never forget a phone call. Helen called and said, Look, David, this is the situation, this is what's happened. Um, you know, do you want to talk to me about that? And I looked at it, and the you know, the best in my view is just be honest. And I remember at the time saying to Helen, Look, Helen, I don't have any excuses for that, that shouldn't have happened. It did. However, if you give me the opportunity to correct to correct it, it will never happen again. And it didn't. And I think that's ultimately what Helen's saying, and I think that's how partnerships are forged or forged on trust. I think that there has to be really good two-way communication, there has to be a real willingness for both parties to listen to feedback and learn from it, and that's something that's really, really important. And Helen speaks about and did speak to me in terms of the open work academy. And thank you for that, by the way. Uh the open work academy around um, well, we're looking to, in terms of open work, scale this, you know, and continue to scale it to serious numbers when you're looking at over a hundred delegates. How are we going to maintain that that service? And this is a non-negotiable for me, Sam. You know, it really is, and uh it's so critically important that we deliver a really good service to our clients because everything else flows out of that, you know, it's just really, really important. And yeah, we do that now by making sure that we're getting feedback, you know, in terms of the training we deliver, the feedback on the products that we have, so the exam content and and collating that data. Um, and we have internal meetings and we talk about this stuff and how can we improve on it. Um, and it's just hugely important and it's absolutely uh a non-negotiable. I think service should always be put first. It's back to what I said to you previously around people before profit. Um, and even to the extent actually that it really isn't genuinely not about you know rinsing that sponge for every penny we can get out of every relationship. It's not about that at all. And actually, probably a good example of that, Helen, is um we um in the last 12 months, we um we spent thousands, tens of thousands on developing a new app. It's got um it's available on Android and Apple, and you can download it and it's got thousands of new technical questions in there. And we developed it because we expected it to be a product line, a commercial line to generate income for us. Um but what we did instead was we gave it to our academies and now we just give that free to the academies. And the reason we do that is because it enhances pass rates, it's helpful to the delegates, it's helpful for those clients. So it you know, it really isn't always about just trying to extract every penny, it's about working in real partnership to try and get the results that we all want, which is first-time pass rates and looking after those delegates as best we can.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

Yeah, absolutely love that. Look, I I do my due diligence now. I've made mistakes in the past with the financial plan of life, working with companies that didn't quite um deliver on the promises that they were saying when they were coming on the podcast. So, due diligence to me is is is massively important. I take it very seriously. I I want new people to come into profession. People are listening to this podcast too and they're acting on it, on the conversations that are being had. So um I did due diligence on on Redmill, you know. I worked with SJP and we even did a podcast under SJP and you know, I really got to understand it and hear it, hear about the academy, how they do it, uh delegates, etc. So I was like, okay, great, okay. So when it came to choosing uh Redmill as a partner of mine, I it was like I'm not just gonna go, hey, I want a sponsor. It's like I want a partner. I want someone who's gonna deliver on what they say they're gonna do. So you as well, in respect of what you're doing around the open work, it's delivery. And that's just a super important thing for me. You know, 10,000 listeners on a monthly basis is what we have here. But a top 10 careers podcast, 60,000 followers. People are people are acting on what we talk about here. We've got we have a level of responsibility. So it's brilliant to get people like you, Helen, on the podcast, going into detail, being very transparent about what it is that you actually do, and also just open it up for all different learners of all different shapes and sizes. And I know it's gonna be good because you're working with David. Okay, there you are. Say, listen, so um happy to have you on the podcast today. I'm really looking forward to continuing uh finding out more. So I'm gonna sort of knock on the door a little bit. Owl sounds like a right hoot, so I'm well up for that. Absolutely is. Let me tell you. I'm there with the bonjour V Pun. Yeah, 30 minutes. I was waiting to do that one. Thank you for your time. Thank you.