How Financial Planners and Investment Managers Serve Wealthy Families

Most financial planning firms have both a financial planner and an investment manager. Far fewer have a team that operates as a single unit, with a shared philosophy, clearly defined roles, and a consistent client experience regardless of who's in the room or where the client happens to be.

In this episode of Financial Planner Life, Sam sits down with George Davey (Financial Planner) and Matt Beddall (Regional Managing Partner) from Titan Private Wealth, to discuss what that kind of partnership looks like in practice and why it makes such a difference for the clients they work with.

George manages over £100 million in client assets and specialises in repatriation work for clients returning to the UK from the Middle East. Matt spent 25 years at some of the UK's largest investment management firms before joining Titan to help build something different. Together, they argue that the relationship between a financial planner and an investment manager is among the most undervalued in the profession.

George and Matt discuss what a genuine house view means for client outcomes, how their roles complement each other during client meetings, and why service will always matter more than performance when building long-term trust.

They also get into the One Titan philosophy, what it means for clients who move abroad, come back to the UK, or have financial lives that span more than one country, and why very few firms can follow a client through those transitions the way Titan can.

The episode's key takeaways 🔥

• Why a shared investment philosophy produces better outcomes than a bespoke-for-everyone approach
• How financial planners and investment managers divide roles to give clients clarity rather than confusion
• Why service comes before performance, and what that looks like during volatile markets
• How Titan supports clients repatriating from the Middle East and other international markets
• What One Titan means in practice for clients whose lives and wealth span multiple geographies
• Why long-term trust is built through consistency, not strong quarters
• What draws experienced investment managers and financial planners to Titan, and what they find when they get there

Whether you're a financial planner curious about what a true investment management partnership looks like, or an experienced investment manager wondering if there's a better place to do the work you love, this episode is worth your time.

⏱️ Timestamps:

0:00 - Introduction: George and Matt's backgrounds

5:30 - George's route into financial planning and joining Titan

12:00 - Matt's 25 years in investment management and why he made the move

19:15 - What a genuine house view means and why consistency is the product

27:40 - How financial planners and investment managers work together in practice

35:10 - Building trust with ultra-high-net-worth clients over the long term

42:25 - Repatriation work and the complexity of worldwide  clients

50:00 - One Titan: following clients wherever life takes them

57:30 - Service before performance: lessons from five years of market volatility

64:00 - What the One Titan philosophy means for the future of the business

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_01 0:04

And today on the Financial Planner Live podcast, we have George Davy, who is a financial planner, and we have Matt Pedable, who is an investment manager. They both work for Titan Wealth, and today they're going to talk about their relationship when it comes to managing ultra high net worth clients. I hope you enjoy the episode. George, Matt, thank you for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. It's a very special episode with our partnership with Titan Wealth. And today we're going to learn all about what it's like to work for Titan Wealth in the ultra-high net worth client side. Matt, you're an investment manager. George, you're a financial planner. Both of you specialise in the ultra-high net worth space. So we're going to find out a little bit about how you work together, what that looks like. There's plenty of people out there that don't know. They don't work with investment managers. So let's educate them. So, George, I'll tell you what, first off, why don't you tell us how you got into the financial planning profession? I'm going to ask you the same question, Matt, in a minute, and how your paths came together.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah. So, firstly, thank you for having us on. How did I get into it? Joined a national advice firm that had one of these advisor pathway jobbies. So I initially studied something completely unrelated to finance, studied industrial design at university, tried to get into the industry from university, essentially was a bit of a weird transition at the time. So I went away and got a year of sort of sales experience and ended up joining the same company that I'd initially applied to, but on their fast track to advice. So I jumped in there, um, worked through the exams in sort of six months or so, went through, did a bit of bit of admin, bit of power planning out as an advisor, kicked out at 24, so I was pretty young sort of first step into advice, which you'll never admit at the time, but when you look back now, you probably would admit that 24 is pretty young to be sitting down telling people how to retire and what to do. Um but people may still say that now, right? Um, I think a lot of that is a a personal thing, a confidence piece, um, and know what you're talking about. Um that was great for me because it kind of cut through that how do you get from admin to power planning into advice? It was a pathway that was kind of laid out. And for me, I'm very, very happy that I went down that route. Um, it gave me a lot of structure. I came having come from that sort of more salesy background, um I think that mindset helped quite a lot in getting through the exams in relative quick time and having a good bunch around me at the time. I massively benefited from the other people on my um on my intake for that uh advisor pathway, basically. Um we'd get into the office at seven in the morning, revise until nine, we'd stay from five till seven, revising together audio books on the way to and from work. So it's pretty pretty all in. Um but me and particularly one of the other guys I was with, but all of us really wanted to just get get through, get out, and get get in front of people and doing the job really. I love it.

Joining Titan And Accelerating Responsibility

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So how did you get how you know what how did you get to Titan? When did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Um so I started with a I was at this national advice firm, then I went on to another uh large advice business. Titan was about a year or 18 months, 18 months, two years old. Uh heard about them a lot in the press, uh, in the in the industry press, what their growth objectives were and what they all have looked like. Um and someone sort of mentioned to me why why don't you why don't you have a look and see what you can what you can do. So I um had some conversations with with uh one of the guys at Titan and just before the acquisition of LEBC, which was the business that basically created the advice pillar within uh within Titan. Um so I ended up joining LEBC at the time. They were formal investment partners of Titan at that point. There wasn't necessarily a plan to be Titan, but it was B the energy was kind of there between the two. Um joined LEBC. That acquisition then went through about a year or so, a year to 18 months into um my time there, and then so through acquisition, but uh that's kind of the journey, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

I love it. So you've been here for about two years at Titanworth? It's coming up to three. Coming up to three years, fantastic. So fast moving business, they're growing rapidly. Yeah, lots of moving parts. Did that sort of environment allow you to take on extra responsibility quite quickly? Did it accelerate your career?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I've I'm a big proponent of be in the office, be in front of people, front of mind, um, at a time where a lot of people kind of worked. It's the I I joined uh 20 Feb 23. So COVID would had happened, we'd sort of worked out what life looked like. Um a lot of people were very keen on working from home at that point. I was going to the office sort of four or five days a week, um, getting in front of the the sort of senior bods in the London office, and that helped me massively. Um there's not a load we don't have a huge presence in London as a as financial planners, there's uh a few of us. Um so it gave me a really good environment to then get in front of the right people, get in front of, get get on some of the good projects um and kind of prove prove my ability in that sense, I suppose. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

So, where are you today then? What job role have you got at the moment and what's your responsibility?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, so financial planner. Um I do a lot of work with the guys that we've got over in the Middle East on clients repatriating to the UK. Um, that probably makes up uh a good maybe 40 to 50 percent of my book. Now I've got UK uh clients who I've I picked up some of them on joining, and then some of it's grown more organically whilst I've been here or a few different different routes as well. Um the repat's just really interesting. Do a lot of the high net worth piece as well, so trending quite quickly up in terms of the average AUM per um per client, which is obviously a good place to be, and it's quite motivating as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, well, it motivates lots of people, doesn't it, when they start to work with those high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. Yeah. Typically, what is the average investable assets of the clients that you you would deal with as a financial planner? How big is the AUM that you manage?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

In my book, um I think my average is between eight and nine hundred thousand pounds or so um per client at the moment. Uh total assets just over the hundred million pounds mark at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Fantastic. So, how long have you been a financial planner for?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Seven years, eight years, seven years.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah, coming up eight years, yeah. Maybe a ton under management.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

I mean, that's pretty impressive, Matt. What would you what would you say about that? Is that I'd agree.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah, I think that's fantastic going.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Um just goes to show that you know George is well, firstly, had the had the real appetite to do it, hence getting through everything so quickly to get him in the position to then start building his career. I think it's admirable.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, I love it. Well, Matt, now we've got you on the mic. Tell us a little bit about who you are, your little journey up to Titan and what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Yeah.

Matt’s Career Shift From Big Firm

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Um so I'm the regional managing partner, is my official title, of Titan Private Wealth. And Titan Private Wealth is the investment management business that sits inside of Titan Wealth in the UK. And my journey here has been I've not been here as long as uh as long as George. In fact, I've been here two years today, um, as it turns out, just thinking about it. Um I've had 25, 26 years working in a large UK-wide investment management company. Um Latterly running a big office with 40 people, nearly£2 billion worth of assets under management, and a very large client book personally to look after. And I, you know, I I got into this. I wanted I wanted to be a stockbroker in the mid-1990s, late 1990s. I wanted to be a stockbroker. In fact, I'd wanted to be a stockbroker since I saw the film Wall Street in 1995. Um, Wall Street. Not the Wolf of Wall Street, Wolf Street, nearly as bad. Um, and so I sort of pushed myself to do you know business and economics at university, then trying to find a job. Um, and I got one at the trainee contract to be a stockbroker at a regional stockbroking partnership in 1998, and I went from there through various incarnations into this much larger national business and wound up being a divisional director and heading up all those people and uh having a fairly fairly uh senior leadership role. Um But the last few years there I was getting disillusioned with with the with where the business was going. It was almost it almost felt like we were too big and we couldn't react well enough, I thought. Um and I always thought I'd be a lifer, but it turned out I I wasn't. My mind started to shift and I thought, you know, for the first time ever I need to look potentially have a look at a at a different opportunity. Um and I knew the business that I now work for, Titan Private Wealth, fairly well. Uh they used to be called Cardales Asset Management. I knew them well. I knew that Titan had bought them. Um I'd always had a conversation with Cardales about how they worked, I'd always liked it. Um and so when they got taken over by Titan, um, became Titan Private Wealth, I took the opportunity to talk to James Cabri, who's a group, one of the group CEOs of Titan Wealth, um about the prospect of joining. And it was a conversation that went on quite a while. Went on a few months, good few months. But I decided that really I wanted to make the move. I I wanted to offer I wanted to do two things mainly. I wanted to join a business that was more nimble and that we could react better, quicker to clients' needs, to clients' investment portfolios. I love the long-term track record, investment track record, that is, performance track record of Titan private wealth. Um, and that's something I wanted to offer some of my high net worth clients. And, you know, always also wanted the opportunity to try and build out Titan Private Wealth and attract more experienced investment managers like myself to join. Um for hopefully for the main reasons that I joined, because I could see knowing quite a lot of people in that space of similar age and younger who who were maybe a little bit disillusioned at the much bigger firms that this could be a place you could come to.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

What are those limitations that you started to see then in the larger organisation that made you turn your head? What was it that Titan Private Wealth were doing that made you go, do you know what, that that's exactly why I used to bring that shit up?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I I know I keep using the word nimble, but I'm gonna use it again. I it it was really a lot of it was around being able to react. I f I I felt like I was sitting on a an oil tanker and you know, various projects or ideas would get put in place, but they they either never transpired or were a year or 18 months down the line, and the opportunity in a lot of cases is almost gone. And you know, I could see, and certainly the conversations I had prior to joining, I could see that that wasn't the case at Titan. That there was much more of a if there's a good idea here, we're gonna get on it, get on with it, and and and and make sure it happens. And you know, a lot of a lot of that, the the majority of that is hopefully for the benefit of the client. Um I like the way uh that we manage money at Titan Private Wealth in particular. It's quite different to the majority of larger investment managers in the UK. And I would I I would dare to say that I think a lot of the larger investment managers would like to manage money in the same way as us, but it they can't get there. I think they've got embedded investment processes that that it would take a really big shift to move. And that that was that was one of my main reasons for looking. I saw something that I like that I'd like to offer to my to my c to to to clients full stop, the to the clients that I was looking to bring uh to Titan.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

I love it. So autonomy decision making, you were in a quite a large firm, quite a senior role. Did you feel like you didn't have it?

Why A House View Matters

SPEAKER_02 12:39

To a certain extent. Yeah, um to a certain extent, you know, you've worked your way up to a r to to to a position of senior leadership, but it felt that certainly in the firm that I was in, it felt that there were some d decisions being made for the company that just weren't being necessarily thought through, weren't being talked through with uh with leaders like myself who've got responsibility for people who sit in front of clients and for as somebody who sits in front of a client, that decisions were being taken by by people who probably never sat in front of a client. And that that that eventually started to make me think, actually, you know what, we really should never lose that that ability to to the people that are making decisions about what we do with a business should, I think, have had experience of sitting in front of a client. And I feel that quite strongly. So that was one of the main driving forces. And your voice is being heard. Oh, definitely. Yeah, you know, I've you know, I've joined a business where you know I currently sit on the executive committee of Titan Private Wealth, and we've been through an awful lot of change and transition in the two years since I joined, all setting things up even you know, even better for the client and better for the future. Um, a lot of decisions to be made, and uh and yeah, my voice counts you know as highly as an ex person on the executive committee. And you know, we've done an awful lot. We've done an awful lot in a very short space of time, which uh I'm really proud of because that's what wasn't happening in my previous business.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, I love it. Brilliant. Working together then, investment manager, financial planner. George, tell me about that. Have you ever done that before in the past before you join Titan Wealth? Have you got experience of working investment managers so closely?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yes, but in an environment like the one that Matt's talking about where it's quite um slow moving. Oh, old, old, old, old businesses, I think is probably probably the so there's a lot more tiers of management that um may or may not be adding the value they maybe think they they are, uh, which slows things down quite a lot. So I'm used to that relationship of of having um financial planning, investment management in in a room together. Um the solution, the way we're able to deliver it is is different here, I think. Um the clarity of what we're what we're looking to do and what we're looking to achieve here is is actually quite appealing. That might sound quite a counterintuitive, but a house view really, really exists at Titan. You're uh you there's one there's one source of best thinking, right? If if this is what you think clients should be, and that's what we think clients should be in, unless there's unless there's a need for them bespoking per client. Um I've worked in an environment where you can speak to three different investment managements with three different ideas of what should be doing, what we should be doing per client, which as a solo investment manager, yeah, fine, fair enough. But if you're if you're working for Titan, there should be a Titan approach to the Titan where thinking that works, it's provable, and we can then provide the I you know I I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Uh you know, a financial planning and investment management client should get the same experience, be they managed in London with you, in Harrogate or Yorkshire, with me. You know, the the outcome should be the same unless there's a real reason for it not being the same. And you're absolutely right in what you just referred to, you know, in the firm that's that you and I have worked in before, there's a huge disparity of client outcomes depending on primarily depending on what the investment manager thought. Yeah. Whereas we've got, you know, across a business a real I'm gonna use the word process, and I know people don't really like it, but it is a it is a a think a way of thinking and a process that says every client should enjoy this, because this is how we do it, and okay, there might be the odd one where we do it slightly differently, but there's a real reason for that. Um and it's a very I think it's a very strong um and powerful selling point to clients that we really believe in the way that we build portfolios, the way that we give advice. And if it's right for Mr. Smith, why isn't it right for Mr. Jones or you know, whoever turns out to be the client, and and really no matter what size they are, it's it's about being able to deliver something that is really consistent, I think. Whereas in a lot of firms, the the outcomes could be very different depending on geographically where you do it, or even in the same geography, the same office potentially, who you happen to be speaking to.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah. I think I think the big thing is process is fine where process had value is a good thing. Process is bad where it is not allowing people to be trusted to do the job they're there to do. Um where I was before, you could have two investment managers that sit three desks away from each other in the same London office. One is all in on UK equities, one doesn't touch them. That level of difference. And it was impossible as a financial planner to work in an environment where I might speak to Matt one day who his performance record is this, and I might speak to uh Sarah another day and her performance trait record is this. But then per client they're bespoking to a significant degree, um, just because they think that's what their value is, and they think that's how they demonstrate value. Um, but then it's impossible to say, well, this is what you're likely to get from a well, not likely to get, sorry, past performance is an indication of future return. But um this is what this is what has been seen in these portfolios for a balanced risk investor, for example. You can't say that if everyone's doing different stuff, or investment managers are doing different things per client because that's how they see their role. Whereas we have a house view that will be followed unless there's a reason not to be in that. So if that's cherished holdings, if it is existing company shares that you've got, if you're still working for one of these businesses and you want that exposure and you've got that knowledge of and trust, then then that can make us more comfortable with holding sort of higher exposures to individual individual businesses. But if you don't have those, then every balance risk investor in theory per per investment approach should be in the same or a very, very similar portfolio because that's what we think is the right thing, and that's then the performance that we we report is related to those those those portfolios. Yeah, I I agree.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

It's you know, consistency and being able that gives that puts you in a very powerful position when you sit in front of new clients in particular to say, you know, this is the way that we do it, this this works, we know it works, you're not going to get you're not going to get something random happening here because we've got a way of managing money that we believe in. And and you know, I very firmly believe in it. That's a like as I've already said, that's one of the main reasons I joined Titan. Very firmly believe in the process. And processes need to adapt, investment processes need to adapt, and ours has and will and will continue to do so. But the very core thinking behind it has been in place for the last 16, 17 years, delivered really superb returns for clients in all different risk levels because you don't have to be a high high risk client to get the same equity equity holdings for the equity portion of your portfolio, or just own less of it, the the the lower down the risk scale you are. So it it's it gives you a real confidence as a as an investment manager and a financial planner that you you can tell the client what they're gonna get. No, you can't tell them what the performance is gonna be exactly, but you can tell them the way that we're going to do it. And that's not, you know, fundamentally that's not gonna change. And that feels really you if you're enthusiastic about it, like we both are, that comes across very strongly, I think, with clients and it resonates with them without a shadow of a doubt. I love it.

Repatriation And International Client Support

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Brilliant. You talked about repatriation, yeah. Tightened wealth of acquired AHR, yeah, an international financial planning company. Yeah, it's a very mobile world now. Clients are moving all around, no one wants to be here paying crazy taxes, so they're leaving the leaving the country, but they're coming back as well. They are coming back.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

So just tell us a little bit about the impact that being now part of an international financial planning business has when it comes to managing high net worth clients.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, it's a great place to be. There's very few firms that do it well. Um, clients coming back from Middle East, from Australia, wherever they are, every different region or area will have its own niches and nuances. And a lot of financial planning firms will have the providers that they've got on panel and they'll be the only ones they work with. That rigidity can work really, really well when you've got a good commercial rates. Middle East is a good example. They've been set up in an environment where the regulatory environment is completely different. Commission is still a thing, surrender charges are still a thing, exit penalties are still a thing. So we can't say, oh, well, you've come back with a bond with XYZ provider. Um, if you want us to work with you, we've got to transfer you out. Oh, well, it's going to cost me£50,000 to do that or£100,000 to do that. It could be huge amounts of money with some of the clients and some of the asset sizes. Um it's it's a really good place to me, it's a good niche to have to be able to deal with these clients and say, oh, well, it if if they're coming from similar sources and they've got similar sorts of products, we can sort terms of business with those providers and we can work with them in the UK. Um, and that gives a that gives then a client uh tighten approach over there. They come back. Over here, and they've got a tightened approach still. It might be slightly different because of the environment they're in, but we can we can keep working with the products they've got versus having to pick it up and drop it into something we're familiar with because that's easier for us, we can bend and we can be flexible with that. In the same way that if I've got clients who uh the media will have you believe that no one comes back to the UK, right? But if you if you're in the position where the what the media likes to say, where everyone is leaving the UK, fleeing the UK for all the reasons you just mentioned. Um we have people who have specialisms or or licenses to work in all different regions. There's very few that we don't now. Um so for me to be able to say, been a pleasure working with you, you're going to move to Dubai, I'm going to introduce you to uh whoever it may be over there who who we think is going to work with you well, personality and fit and everything. Um it's great to be able to do that and have a good number of people that we can refer to and stay within the Titan group. Um and that then works quite well from a commerciality perspective for group keeping hold of client assets, but from uh financial planner here or over there, you've got also then your own sort of internal BD type uh approach there where where client flows go one way or the other.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

I think it's really important as well. Like I I've been in the international space, I've done some work within the international space, um, and there is a reputation for international, yeah. Um but I think what's really great for Titan Wealth is that the UK business obviously the Channel Islands as well, but U UK UK business first before international. I like that approach, you know, where I've seen a lot of international go into the UK, the UK space and kind of bring that culture, if you like, into the UK space, some of it positive in the way that they are um geared towards say generating clients. Yeah, you know, there's a real kind of almost uh um uh you know a drive to sales, yeah, getting out with new clients, push, push, push, push, push. There's like a high performance mentality that often comes that way in back into the UK. Um, but I think from a trust perspective, I think if a company has got a good grounding in the UK and those clients are going away and they're coming back, it's a better place to be um than the other way around. That's my personal opinion. Matt, what do you think of that?

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Well, I'm so I've I've not had any experience of the repatriation work that that George is doing. But since arriving, I have had experience of introducing um clients and prospects of mine to other parts of the business outside of the UK that I really couldn't have done in in my previous world. Um and you know that that's been that's been really powerful because right I keep saying powerful, but that's the way I feel about it. Um that's been powerful because you never want to sit in front of a client and not be able to offer them something that will be helpful to them. Um, and if it is the right thing for a client to be considering repatriating out of the UK to Dubai or uh or or you know, wherever they want to go. And increasingly, you know, a lot of people are going to the Middle East. Um, we've got businesses, as you already mentioned, in Guernsey and Jersey, we'll soon have businesses all over Europe that we'll be able to cater for people. It's great that you can make that introduction and actually still stay as part of that client's journey. Um because typically when you know the clients who the clients who are making this move, they do come back to the UK and spend time in the UK, and and we're all looking after them. So I still feel I've got a level of responsibility because I've recommended that they talk to somebody in our Dubai office, for example, or in our Guernsey office. So it's it's nice to be able to offer that without it just being a shut door to say, I'm really sorry.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Um you're gonna have to find another route, or I could introduce you to another firm, but I don't work in that firm and I don't know how they're gonna look after you. I think being able to know you can look after a client and hopefully never have to lose a client because of their personal circumstances are changing. That's you know, finding that a really, really, really, really strong.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah. We will regularly do calls where you've got the ex-international advisor on the call with the the new UK, if that's me or if that's one of the other guys in the team as well. Um so there's still that connectedness. And we're as a business, we're not scared to refer to third parties. We think that's brilliant, and where someone can do something better than what what we're able to do, but there is a massive upside to having that in-house um link when you when you're handling relationships and passing relationships on. Um if some people make mistakes, we're all humans. There will be mistakes made, not in every relationship, but in some relationships, and sometimes it can be multiple mistakes. But if you can it's a lot easier to get amongst that and get it sorted if it's someone that's within group and crack a whip or know who to go to to get something sorted quickly. It's very hard to have any control, if any if ever, any control over that, if it's a third party being referred to for whatever reason. So it's quite nice to have that comfort. There's the the connectedness and and the the oversight.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

And you know, I'm I'm at the I'm at a different end of my career to use your you're nearer the start and I'm nearer the end. And if you've been looking after somebody or you've been, you know, working with somebody for 20, 25 years, they have a change of circumstances and they do choose that they want to, you know, want to move out of the UK, you know, you you feel very invested in in those clients. And a lot of them are, you know, a lot of them become friends and you want to do, you know, you want to do the level best for them. So, and so I think staying in as part of that contact point, even though maybe on a day-to-day basis you're then not looking after them, that somebody you trust, because that's who you've passed it to within the group, is doing it. I think staying part of that chain of of understanding what's going on for that for that client and their family is is is mega important. And I think it's important, it's really important to the clients as well.

Trust Takes Time With Wealth

SPEAKER_01 27:49

It's keep the door open. Yeah. Not closing the door, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you're still there, you still have a conversation with it. It kind of leads me on as well, because when someone entrusts you with significant wealth, how how do you build that trust? Because it's you know, there's lots of financial planners, lots of investment managers, want to work with high network object. More money the better, right? I think how do you yeah, how do you build that trust?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

The easiest way to summarize it is just do what you say you're gonna do, do it well and care about it. And I think if you do that, it's very hard to go wrong.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I agree, and I I think also accepting that sometimes these are relationships that can take years to build. You know, not everybody's just gonna drop on a an ultra high net worth client. That you'd be very lucky if you just dropped uh, you know, an ultra high net worth client, just happened to drop in your lap. It's about it's about understanding maybe how how they're how how their thinking has changed if you've known them over a while and they've become wealthy during that period, which typically for a lot of people involves selling a business, you know, they have a liquidity moment, and and it's probably always been likely to happen. But if you've been part of that journey with them and helping guide them so far, but but with them knowing and you knowing that that's going to happen, um it's it there's a real point of trust that when that does, you know, when there is a liquidity moment in the instance I'm talking about there, the first person that they're going to want to talk to about what we now do with this is you. If you've if you've stuck with them and maintain that level of trust and advise them the right way. Um and and then as George says, you know, the great wealth does bring complication for people. It's no longer just a straightforward version of you've got a GIA and an ISA. Um there's an awful lot more you need to think about, and working hand in glove with a financial planner to build a proposition. You know, that that could be there, could be all sorts in there. It could be philanthropy, it could be moving things offshore, it could be the all sorts of things that could need need to happen, or advice that should be considered and given to somebody with significant wealth is you know understandably different to somebody who walked through the front door with a few hundred thousand pounds who's still working, staying in the UK, etc. etc. So it gets more complicated. Do the expectations change? Do you think I I don't necessarily think they do, because you know, I I'd like to think, although I have seen it happen, but with most people, they don't change because they suddenly become wealthy. Okay. They have more opportunity in life, generally, with with wealth. Um, but fundamentally they're the same people that you've known and have worked with over a longer period of time. But it it then does mean that you you need you need more to look after to ensure you're looking after their interests. So, you know, for example, working as a pair, investment manager, financial planner, and you know, and and sometimes necessarily, you know, I work with external accountants, lawyers, um, all part of it. You you build a team around a very, very wealthy client. And if you can all work together and trust each other, you can have some really fruitful conversations and outcomes.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Where would you say planners add the most value in that part of the relationship then?

Structuring First Then Investments

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Um it's quit it's so it varies so much from client to client. So as Matt was saying, so I had a call uh recently with a client where I'm not actually going to do anything uh immediately for this client, but I've introduced him to accountant solicitors to look at doing some property structuring stuff. Um, but you never know what could come up down the line. That's part of that sort of thing where relationships take time to develop and being in the being there and sort of orchestrating stuff in the short term um might help in the in the longer term for that. Um also where we can often be that almost the conductor of a of a range of relationships as well, often with accountant solicitor being the starting point. Sometimes you need one or two other people, sometimes you need one or what one of the two as well on that side. Um financial planners there's complexity in what we do, and it gets more complex as the numbers get bigger. I think we're doing the job wrong if we pass on that complexity to the client. So if we can keep things super simple, brief but detailed enough to for them to get comfortable. Um, if a client ever leaves a meeting feeling bamboozled, then you've probably done something wrong. Um we're very much there for the structural piece. Then Matt, one of Matt's team will be there to do the investment stuff. In my world, the investment stuff is super important. You'd be an idiot to say it isn't, but it's secondary to getting the structures right. Because if we can get the structural can agree more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

So what comes first then?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Like you need to like the structures from will we'll client objectives then funnel down into okay, this is what you want to do. So you could have three clients with five million pounds, um, with maybe even minorly different objectives, but their plan is likely going to look quite different. You've got then the different structures that the asset the the money will fall into, um, or the purpose of uh say there's funds that are ring fenced for for certain certain reasons. And then within those structures, then the investments fall into place. So you might have different different risk profile per structure. So then MAP may produce a balanced risk portfolio for shorter-term assets, a higher risk portfolio for the longer-term stuff, or the or the estate planning piece, whereas stuff that's in trust for kids and bits and pops like that as well. Um, but what if the objectives will lead the structure? Um, the investments sit alongside that as very, very important, integral to what we're doing. But from a financial planning perspective, objectives lead everything. Structuring is super important. If we can make tens of percents of um uh optimise things to reduce tax by tens of percents on the gross value when you're looking to draw down in five, ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years, depending on the type of planning that we're doing, that will make a lot bigger difference than uh shaving a couple of percent on on or off here or there.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Do you ever do you ever get worried about like you've got clients, you've had long-standing clients, you've had long-standing clients, right? Do you ever get worried about introducing them to each other just a could it rock the boat?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Does that happen? It's look, it it it does happen, and I'm sure people do worry about it. I think if you if you build up a level of trust with your colleagues, and in so what do I mean trust is a very wide word, but trust in your understanding of what of their ability and their capability, but m more importantly, that you know, let's say it's me that's introducing a client to George, that I know that you know, I know that George is you've got to get on with c you know, you've got to get on with particularly very, very wealthy clients with big pots of money where there could be other family members that are involved. You've got to find a way of getting on with people. Um and I think it's you know, it's it's it's mega important that that we uh get on and trust each other because then that just that just oozes oozes into a meeting. You know, we're not we're not competing to oh you you know, I need to look after more, you know, that bit, and George will do that bit. We're you you're acting as a team. You're a team, so complete team, and it and you react, you know, you react like that as well. Um, you know, I've got a fair understanding of financial planning arrangements, and I'll contribute something to the conversation more often than not as a point to for for the financial planner who's in the meeting with me to pick that up and then give their expert view on it, and vice versa. You know, George has probably got an opinion as whether whether or not we should own NVIDIA in our portfolios, and he might lead with a with a question on that, and then I'll fulfill, you know, I'll fulfill the rest as to why we do or we don't. Um so I think you know, knowing one another, trusting each other, that comes across really, really well. And and and well, my experience is that clients clients like that. If it's obvious that you're at odds with each other, well, you're not going to get anywhere. You're not gonna get anywhere at all.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Yeah. And things above and beyond investment performance. What else kind of do clients really value? You talk about the relationship and having to be able to get on with them. Does it differ from other financial planning roles, perhaps, or other investment management positions where you have to go a little bit above and beyond and into their personal life and hang out with them?

Service Over Performance In Tough Markets

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Well, I sometimes that happens. I I think you know, for me, there's always one thing that always comes ahead of performance, and that's that's service. Yeah, I think yeah, you you agree. You know, the the the the service level that you individually, you as a team, you as a business give to the client will resonate more with them than performance. You you know, if you if you're if you really look after a client, the service levels are excellent, um you'll you'll be forgiven a difficult year performance-wise. So it's not all it's not all about performance. I think I certainly think service comes first. Performance is important, really important. Um but that ongoing trust and and service level that you don't let that dip. Yeah. Like you said, you you constantly striving to just give the best level of service to a client that you possibly can. And that you know, that's that's what we do, time wealth.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, I think for new clients coming in, if it's I mean, one thing that is worth mentioning as well is that we are still fully independent. So if there's a third party that they want to use, or if there's other solutions that are more appropriate, we'll we we're not boxed into you come into Titan, you'll get me and Matt, or me, or a version of me and a version of Matt. So there's a lot of flexibility in there. And from a planning perspective, we'll have to discount the other alternatives to get to a point that we recommend to use A an in-house product, but but B the in-house product being TPW's TPW's solution as well. Um, but if the if that relationship has come through and the service you get from the start is uh a me plus a Matt, um they know what they're getting, they then know what each other's roles or each of your roles are within that relationship. They know who to come to for what particular thing, and you're speaking to the specialist in that area versus um speaking to someone who is kind of trying to do everything behind the scenes but isn't actually doing everything because we're using a third party to do this, that, and the other over here. So you've you've got total visibility, speaking to people who've got the finger on the pulse of their respective areas, so they're gonna feel very looked after. Um they're gonna have a higher touch service naturally because they've got two people to to to speak to uh about what they're looking to achieve. Um I've kind of gone off on a bit of a tangent from the point I was originally going to make, which has gone out of my head now, so I might let Matt speak until he comes back.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

No, I I agree with everything you've just said, and I I think you know, like you said, Sam, you you know, do you do you do you start going out for dinner with these people, etc. etc. Yes, sometimes that develops into a really strong relationship that's also a friendship. Um and and that's that's amazing. That's amazing that you can you know that you can sit with a client and not have just have to talk about discounted gift trusts and uh you know how much we've got in the US versus Europe and and stuff like that. And you get it, and you get to know the families, and particularly very wealthy families. This is a lot of that is about generational planning, yeah. And and and that works best when you actually know the people that you're trying to arrange the planning for. And you know, all families are different, but I think the families where it does work best are the ones that are open about the wealth.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Um some people choose not to be, and it comes as a complete shock to the children or grandchildren when something happens and they realise just how much money there is there. So openness amongst them promotes us to be able to give you know the best collective advice and strategy for them.

Hiring Great Investors Through Autonomy

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Yeah, I think it's just it was the point that you're making earlier around performance. And if we if we go into every client and essentially we hate the word sell, everyone in the industry hates the word sell, but if you're if you're selling a proposition based on performance alone, the only thing you can guarantee is you're not gonna be the best performing fund every year, every quarter, quarter in, quarter out, every year, year in, year out. So it's the one thing that you can you can control your approach, but you can't control the returns year on at all if you can give yourself the best chance, right? Performance is important, but the relationship, achieving objectives, giving every client, every single meeting, I'll probably say three or four times, our our core role is to provide peace, mind, comfort, and confidence to clients. And if that's in a relationship where both of us are in the room, that's the joint objective. Um, in the good relationships, the the clients that we we work with for a long time, you'd be surprised often how small a portion of the conversation performance makes up. If you've had a a year where it's not been brilliant, we'll be the first we'll be the ones to bring that up and talk talk about that and talk about what's changed, if anything's changing the portfolio and why. Um but if they're if they trust us based on how we're working with them and how we have worked with them to that point, they're not going to be worried about a year of performance because they've been sort of coached into the understanding that you're not going to be winning all the time. But as long as you've got a good emergency fund, you've got uh the level of risk per pot that is appropriate to the objective of those different pots, then it shouldn't be something they lose sleep over. And very few clients actually do. We've seen it quite a lot over the last five years. 08, 09 through to 2020 or so, kind of an investing dreamland, cheap, cheap debt. Every company could do bad companies could borrow and look like all right companies, all right companies borrow and look like good and good look like great companies. Um, everything broadly did this to differing degrees. It was really hard to explain to clients what risk was and what volatility was and what it meant. Volatility's back, it's been back since 2020 and it's been pretty prolific in recent years. But you had a lot of clients who were very unsettled with COVID because everyone thought it was the end of the world, then Liz Trust blowing up the bond markets. It was the lower risk investors that saw the volatility in markets at that point, which felt quite unfair. Um, there are a lot of conversations around performance there. The last year there's been a lot that's gone on, Trump Liberation Day, but the number of calls that we had after the Trump Liberation Day, that market sell-off there, um, was immeasurably less than Liz Truss or COVID and uh the few bits that had happened in between because people are understanding of volatility, but they've had, especially those clients that have been with us for for the last few years, they've seen that and they've seen how we react to that and they see what the answers are.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Um, in a similar way, it it's a conversation the same way that budget's coming up. Do we take all our tax free cash out because I've heard this, that, and the other is going to happen. They just they understand we're very consistent because we have a house view and we've got an approach, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Matt, you're building an investment management team. Yeah. Uh you've had some success so far. What's attracting those investment managers to tie and wealth into your team?

SPEAKER_02 43:08

I think I think the the the there's two or three things in particular. Um one is there is in the investment management world in the UK, it's kind of dominated by a handful of very big, uh very big companies. And they're getting bigger because they keep merging with each other. Um I think there are a lot of investment managers out there who feel that they are, you know, they're losing the ability to um not not to go and build a client a portfolio that that client should have, although I'll go back to what we said earlier. We believe that most clients should have the same portfolio because we monitor that like hawks. Um just that they want to be able to offer their clients something that has consistently done well for a long period of time, and I think some of the bigger firms they they they're getting bigger and bigger and it's causing they they I use the word nimble again they can't be nimble enough around their investment process to ensure that all clients are getting getting roughly the same treatment in a in a timely manner at the same time so that that's quite attractive to a lot of experienced investment managers with with you know with existing books so that there is that aspect that that's one thing that we can offer from an investment process perspective um the other angle is you know we're still but Titan is a fast growing business um Titan private wealth sitting inside Titan wealth is a fast growing business is you know there are clients coming to us from different parts of the group but there's still plenty to do and and having experienced investment managers to come in and help drive I go back to what I said earlier around having ideas around services that we might provide etc and to actually be involved in building those out and that that's what's happening you know we're bringing in we're you know we're we're bringing in investment managers from other firms we've been successful at that in 2025 and those guys are bringing their experience and helping us build out more of what of of what we we know we want to do but bringing that experience in is helping us do it doing doing it quicker probably than we would have done it ourselves but but also that you know the vast experience these guys are bringing means we're going to get it right um and not everybody will have that opportunity in the firm that they might have worked at for 10 15 20 years with us you will have that opportunity to be involved and and be involved properly in building something that's quite attractive to a lot of people um and then I guess you know it is that aspect that if if you feel you are sat on an oil tanker and you want to I don't know whether this is the right the the right way to look at it if you feel like sitting in a roller coaster for a little bit come come to us it's good it's it's hard work it's good fun um and that that's really resonating with people so you know we've been very successful so far 2025 bringing people across we're gonna continue to do that um you know we've got full support from the business to do that I'm driving it and you know watch this space hopefully we're gonna have a whole number more investment managers dotted around the country over the as we go through 2026 and 27.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Do you find that autonomy and accountability does shape better professionals?

SPEAKER_02 46:41

I think it gives prof it gives professionals that we give them a chance to do something that they wouldn't get to do. Yeah um now you know will we get to such a size where we can't do it like that yeah inevitably but we've got a a really long way to go a really long way to go on that so um so I think that's you know that having that the accountability that the the chance to have your say put your you know put your hat in the ring to say I want to get involved in this I want to help Titan build this whatever this is um that's here to stay for quite a while and and and I I think there's a lot of really good professional people out there who all they've really ever done is is sit at a desk go out and see their clients they've done that really really well but they've got some great ideas that they've not really had a funnel to to help put them out there and we want to we want to hear what they are and can we facilitate that?

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Is it something that Titan should be doing it's kind of like entrepreneurialism isn't it but it's entrepreneurialism you know that how many people are sitting there thinking I wish I could kind of just get stuck in and make a change doing a difference.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

And you know that that is fed into this business from the very very top. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

I imagine that having I imagine having autonomy in the right areas is the important thing there right if if you go back to what we're talking about of sort of big national firms where you might end up with a different investment proposal proposal or proposition for one one person to the next person that's meant to be delivering the same thing autonomy there probably isn't actually super helpful it's just risk really isn't it?

One Titan Culture And Open Leadership

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Yeah exactly and you know let's be honest about it from a regulatory point of view the regulator hates that absolutely hates that as they should you know we we should be offering things that are consistent which is what we do. Yeah and if you've then got autonomy to go and build your business within the business in the way you want to that's pretty motivating and ultimately no one talks about it but that's how you get paid as well th the the the there's that as well but I think you know we also have we have a really a relatively flat structure in Titan you know I know we're getting bigger and there's more and more people every week every month but the founders are still very interested in every single part of the business and go out and about and make themselves known to talk I mean I talk to them every week you talk to them every week they're interested to know what we're doing and if you know if you need support or if you you know what what can we do what more can we do to help make this more of a success than it already is and and so there is that entrepreneurial spirit for people to think you know slightly wider than they might have done in previous roles.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

It's in some of these large organisations it's very difficult to communicate isn't it across the business with so many different people in it. There's a phrase that's being put around by James one Titan. Yeah yeah and this is why we're here you know we're all about sharing the journey of the people that work at Titan not only for outside world to have a look in and see what's being done and how it's being done at Titan wealth but also to connect the business and educate the business internally and that's what we're doing with the Titan Wealth podcast as well which we're going to start filming which we're really looking forward to doing. I've got to ask you guys like when you when you think about the term one Titan what does one Titan mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Um I'll go first if so we've spoken about it already but what part of what it means to me is that no matter what a client's circumstances or situation we Titan can look after them be it in the UK or overseas that that there is one Titan and we can do what you want you know whatever you need we can offer it to you without you having to go and look look elsewhere. So that that for me is is certainly a very very strong part of one Titan that we're a you know we're now a global business um and that that ability to be to behave in this entrepreneurial spirit building a business a global business but at the same time know that the there really shouldn't be a reason for losing a client if their circumstances change so that's about one Titan that's about me knowing that I can post somebody straight to Dubai or to Guernsey or you know in time elsewhere in Europe or wherever it turns out to be the full knowledge that we all know what we're doing here and that's one Titan.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah but I think cut through any selfishness it's can be pretty uh pretty selfless getting other people involved or being happy to hand relationships over even if that going down to commercials even if that impacts your AUM or whatever but if the best thing for the ro for for a client is to be with another um another part of the business if they're moving abroad or whatever that's a good outcome for the client and it's good for good for group as well if they're if they're staying within the Titan within that one Titan piece. But also the fact that Matt and I and uh different versions of me and different versions of Matt will work together closely happy to share relationships and and deliver good outcomes on that side is is there. But we're all everyone it's a friendly bunch everyone's happy to to chat to everyone in the offices um yeah I've been to Bristol office London I've been over to Dubai and it's it's a good team environment wherever you are um and that makes a big a big difference it makes it a lot easier to come into work when you're working with with people you like I think there's there's real excitement that we are all involved in building something and and the majority of people I would say feel like they do actually have a direct involvement in something that is growing and it's going to do well.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

So that that draws people together it's a common a common belief that we're part of something that's actually this is something quite special dare I say it.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

If you've got good ideas and you put them across in the right way they will be listened to. That doesn't mean that everybody with every idea will be taken on because not every idea is a good thing. But I've had a few different bits where it's different ideas for different sort of market segments and I've presented to either the sort of head of the advice pillar or even group both group CEOs plus head of advice pillar plus one or two other people in the room with a presentation of why I think we should be doing something a bit different to how we were doing at the time and they'll listen to that if it's a decent idea. It doesn't mean everything gets taken up but if you've got the people at the top bought into the idea that we want a a good business that people want to be part of but also we want to listen to what people are saying and allow them to to develop within the business that's a good thing and you don't need to be you don't need to leave to go somewhere else if you can fill those ambitions.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

And you know we're now coming back to the one time piece we're now 1200 1300 people whatever we are going to get bigger anybody can pick up the phone and talk to James Cabrier or Andrew Fear on our CEOs and they'll they'll talk to you you don't need an introduction they'll listen to the what's I actually text James because I went to that meeting and I text him and I said you know you I didn't text him so I phoned him up because he said stop sending emails and stop texting just pick the phone up and have a conversation I just picked the phone up and had a chat with him. Yeah and I loved it. You know receptive am I going to go meet him in Dubai next week he's a big WhatsApp.

Final Thoughts And Thanks

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Yeah it is true and and that that kind of openness and sort of approachability etc that helps with you know draw people together yeah yeah for for the journey that we're all on and it does feel like we're on an exciting yeah journey motivating for clients and for staff and for the business.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yeah that's definitely motivating especially I've been in businesses where CO walks past they don't even look up and they don't want to talk to you. It couldn't be more abundantly clear they don't want to talk to you and they don't know who you are and they don't want to change that. You'll see James or Andrew sort of wafting around the London office or whichever office they happen to be there they get around the offices but they'll they'll be very very happy to be pinged and and and set some time aside.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Fantastic fast moving very exciting business to be a part of a huge ton of opportunities across the group across the world what a great time to be part of one time right yeah yeah fantastic thank you so much for sharing your journey um about investment management financial planning the symbiotic relationship and um looking forward to hearing more thanks really enjoyed it thank you cheers