LIBF Level 4 Qualification Deep Dive | John Somerville & David Tait

Why 30 to 39 Is the Best Age to Become a Financial Adviser 

Is 30 too old to start a career in financial planning?

A lot of people would say yes. The reality is the opposite.

The 30 to 39 age group is the fastest growing cohort entering financial planning right now, up 13% according to fresh FCA data. And the average age of a financial adviser in the UK isn’t 56, like most people assume. It’s 48.

In this episode, Sam sits down with John Somerville, Director of Financial Services at the London Institute of Banking and Finance (LIBF), and David Tait, Founder and Managing Director of Redmill Advance, to dig into why this is the perfect window to start, what the LIBF Level 4 qualification actually involves, and what firms need to do right now to attract the next generation.

They also go deep on the qualification itself. How it works, how it differs from the CII and CISI, why exams can be taken at home with no booking required, and why the case study approach is changing how advisers learn and qualify.

If you’re between 30 and 39 and considering a switch into financial planning, studying for your Level 4, or trying to bring younger talent into your firm, this is the episode for you.

What we cover in this episode:

• Why the 30 to 39 age group is the fastest growing cohort entering financial planning, up 13%
• Why the average age of a financial adviser is 48, not 56, and what the FCA data actually shows
• Why fewer than 150 practicing IFAs in the UK are under the age of 25
• How the LIBF Level 4 qualification works and how it differs from the CII and CISI
• Why LIBF exams are split into two parts and can be retaken without sitting the whole paper again
• How the six-week case study replaces the traditional written exam
• What the new LIBF Chartered Member status means and who it is for
• Why not starting an academy is a missed opportunity for financial planning firms
• What AI means for the future of financial advice and why relationship management is the answer

Financial Planner Life is sponsored by Redmill Advance

Whether you're starting out, already qualified, or building a training academy, Redmill Advance delivers expert-led learning, exam support and CPD from Level 4 to Chartered.

✅ Trusted by top UK firms

👉 www.redmilladvance.com/fpl

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Transcript

Welcome Back And Marathon Banter

SPEAKER_03 0:04

And today we welcome back David Tate from Red Mill Advanced. They are, of course, a training and development sponsor, and he has brought with him John Somerville from the LIBF. And we're going to take a deep dive into the level four qualification. You're going to love this episode if you want to understand more about passing the qualification or putting it into your business as a credible trainer. David, welcome back to the Financial Planner Live podcast. You're our main sponsor, Red Mill Advance, with some fantastic training and development, supporting academies, financial planning companies, financial services companies for years in the past and years to come. But today you've brought a guest with me. Uh it's uh John Somerville. How are you, sir? I'm really well. How are you, Sam? I'm mate, I'm brilliant. Listen, I just saw your medal for the marathon. Well done.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Thank you very much. My sponsorship works. Yours if it wasn't for yours and David's sponsorship, I mean, genuinely, what a what a I had no choice. Yeah, that generosity, I had to get it over the line. Tell me a little bit about your time. Well, 3.14, which is phenomenal. Six minutes under my PB. The stars aligned, Sam. What can I tell you? It was a great day. The the you know the weather was fantastic, and yeah, people amazing. London Marathon is just the best race in the world. Love it. Full stop.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Well done. And how much money did you raise for charity?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

£2,100 for Activity Alliance, uh, which is a disabled charity getting disabled people into sports. So very proud to have represented them for the last 13 years. Well done, John. Thank you. Yeah, congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Amazing stuff, like especially personal bests as you get older. I think that's probably one of the most amazing things as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

So I can tell you one thing, Sam. I'm never running a three-hour, 14-minute marathon ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Everybody wants that four hours sort of slot. I'm lucky enough never to have been above that, always been below. And yeah, nice to get faster as you get older, just as you say, something quite but benchmark set now. So new time next year. And number 14 is definitely coming up. So space is reserved with the charity and away we go.

John’s Career And Industry View

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Love it. John, you've been around in financial services for quite some time. But for those that maybe don't know who you are, could you just give us a bit of introduction? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Um, I've been uh in financial services longer than a lot of the career changers that join us, I think, as far as you know, as far as age is concerned. So around 33, 34 years I've been in financial services. I started as a financial advisor and worked as a financial advisor for many years, which um it's a good place to cut your teeth when you move into LD later on in life. And uh certainly uh moved around some of the big players. So worked for Aviva, uh worked for AX, Legal in General, worked for Nationwide Building Society, and also worked for Intrinsic, which is now Quilter. And Quilter obviously being a very big player in the networks uh and that market as well. Um, and then uh finally at uh L IBF of where I've been for the last eight years as director of financial services.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Fantastic. And what's your relationship then with the great David Tate?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

The great David, I mean, how could you not have uh how could you not go through life and uh in financial services and not not get to meet the great? Um David and I have been working together for the last sort of 12, 18 months on various different uh academy projects, one in particular with Quilter uh and their academy, which has been an absolute privilege to be honest with you, David, to work with you and your team have been an absolutely top-notch when it comes to that. I think really the the best thing I can say is that David and I can just leave our teams to it because we have such phenomenal people working around us. Um so we'll leave the detail to them, don't we? We do indeed, yeah. But they are tremendous. I mean, a great bunch. The fact that um the Quilter team, the red mill team, and the L IBF team, we don't even really need to uh they they just play as one team. Yeah, and I think that's one of the big strengths we have, you know. When they get together, there's no boundaries when it comes to demographics of team and people and what have you. We all work for those people that want to join the industry and want to join the profession, and it's a big move, you know. Anyone that comes in and they want to go through an academy, it's a huge amount of work, a huge amount of effort, a big life change. Moving into financial services can be a real uh phenomenal change in anybody's lifestyle. Um, but of course, the rewards that financial planning gives to those people, I think, is you know, you you must you've seen it over the years as I have, and you know, it's given me a great life, I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

I'm sure David would say that it's a hugely rewarding industry, yeah. It's given me 30 years I've been in the game, um, John. So yeah, it's been very kind to me.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

And that's the beauty of it, isn't it? You know, the fact is, you know, I'm a middle-aged white guy, right? And and I I'm genuinely enthusiastic about I don't know, I'm 56 now, another 10 years in the industry, maybe, and I'm as enthusiastic today as I was when I joined. In fact, I was petrified the day I joined. I didn't know what I was doing. Um, but I was 23 years old, I was young. I was employed by a woman at that time, um, um, Stephanie Austin, I'm sure she's uh uh hopefully she's still around somewhere. I'm sure I'm sure she is. Um, but that was um she interviewed me on my birth birthday. Um, and so that gives you an idea of how long I've been around. So, yes, and you know, it was it was just uh incredible experience learning the trade back then.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

56 years old. I mean, like we had a bit of a pre-podcast chat, didn't we? And I was educated because I thought the average age of a financial planner was 56. If you type that into Google, that's absolutely everywhere, apart from one report that's now behind a firewall. I don't

The Real Adviser Age Data

SPEAKER_03 5:52

quite know why it's behind like a paid full wall. Yes, the actual report where it's less than that is out there. So tell us a little bit about that because you asked them to do that as well, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

I uh yeah, so it's part um one of the things that I do um altruistically, if you like, for um the gain of the profession is I work alongside Tom Heggerty in the New Talent Alliance, part of the Consumer Duty Alliance run by Keith Richards. So well-known figures in the industry. Um, Tom being the CEO of Simply Biz. Um, but he takes that role as chairman of the New Talent Alliance very, very, very seriously. We really want to get young people involved in the business. And we weren't sure, we weren't really of the numbers that were coming through and what the demographics look like, how many people were working in different age groups. And we were seeing a lot of career changes, a lot of people coming into the industry in their 30s and 40s, not in the 50s that we were talking about, and a lot of people retiring and consolidating their businesses. And with a few conversations with the FCA, who have been extremely generous with their time, actually, I have to say, um, they pointed Tom in exactly the right direction to create a freedom of information um uh request. And with that data directly from the FCA, so I can assure everybody who's listening to this, this is data from the FCA, this isn't data we've made up or something we've just brought together. Your average age is 48. It's not in the late 50s.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Um, so there are there is a group of people at the end of their careers who uh are business owners and are continuing to move that profession in that direction, but they're handing it over now. And we're seeing younger people coming in. Um, we're seeing a huge number of people in between 30 and 40 years old changing careers at that point in time. Um, our theory behind that, and you know some of it is done through anecdotal research and discussion with um, funny enough, our friends at Quilter, interestingly, who who do a lot of career changes. You've got people in their 30s who change career from sports people or the armed forces or police or uh medical professional teachers want to change, and they tend to change in their 30s because their family situations are a little bit more settled, and you may have a partner who has a regular full-time job who can support the other person who wants to change career, and you tend to find that people who move into either mortgages or financial advice at that time will happily change. It's a bit different when you're in your 20s and early 20s these days, when if you're trying to get on the more on the property ladder, trying to get some savings together, it's very, very difficult for those people to um enter financial advice as a career because there are so few employed positions, and that's I think the thing that's really sort of holding that population back. So actually, when you look at the numbers, there's fewer than there's certainly fewer than 150 practicing IFAs out there at the moment that are below the age of 25. And I think that's pretty sad, actually. I think we should be looking to actually develop those as first careerists into the profession. Now, don't get me wrong, that's practicing IFAs. So to caveat that, that doesn't include um administrators and power planners and that sort of thing who are probably developing their careers. So there's a lot more than the figures suggest. But those figures are very difficult to analyse because the SCA doesn't gather that. So you've got to do a bit more research on it.

Why Under-25 Advisers Are Rare

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Why do you think that is though? Why do you think so many un there's so little under 25s working as registered financial planners?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, and I would like to touch on this data as well, but to answer that question, Sam, um I think it's because we're not doing enough to attract young talent into the industry. Um and I mean from um uh education onwards, so from school onwards, school and university. Um, I think the industry is perceived in a certain way still. Um, and that is there was actually a really cool bit of research done, and I've mentioned it before by the LAN cat, but they interviewed a number of um young individuals and just asked them a question, which was Um, what do you think a financial advisor does? And describe a financial advisor. And some of the responses were hilarious, but you know, it was everything from um uh you know, middle-aged 40-something guy wearing a grey suit who plays golf a lot, um, you know, to someone who has to be super duper at maths, you know, really it's all about numbers and and and and working with numbers. So the perception for individuals who are very, very young, um, that is the perception of the industry. And I don't think that it's been spoken enough at school because it's not that. And the industry's changed hugely over the last 10, 20 years. I mean, in terms of the research, um, this was a it was a great piece of research. I mean, Tom Haggerty is is yeah, I really respecting him as an individual, um and actually the fact that he's gone and he's tracked this data since 2023 um through to 2026. But it was a really interesting read for me because in some senses it reaffirms some of the numbers that I've been talking about, um, but it challenges others. And the numbers that it reaffirms is you know, those under 25. And we've spoken about this quite a bit, that there's less than 200 individuals in that age range in the industry. Again, the data supports that, so it tells us that you know we're not doing enough at school and university. Um, in terms of the total number of advisors in the market, this report um looked at that as 31,000 and something, so the numbers are around 31. And we had been talking previously, Sam, give or take, we were saying around 35,000. So again, it's quite reassuring to see that you know those numbers um it reaffirms what we have been talking about in the past. Um, interestingly, um, again, over 60. Um, so it reaffirmed that there was about 6,500 individuals in that age bracket, which accounts for about one-fifth of the total advisory population. So, an interesting start for me though was that 30 to 39 range, and um, we had seen a 13% increase in that 30 to 39 uh age range, and that's second careerists. So that's individuals that are coming to market uh as a second career. I think one thing that's important to note from the data as well, though, um whilst that's encouraging, um if you look at the total number, which is 31,000 advisors in the market, and you look at age 50 to um or age 50 plus, it still accounts for 50% of the total advisory population that's out there. So it was around 15,000, 16,000 in total between you know over the age of 50. So it is in some senses still an aging demographic, but actually it's nice to see that when we had previously spoken around that age bracket of being average age 55, it does lower that down to uh when you look at the data across the piece to probably closer to that, as you say, 48, 49 uh age range. But the big indic that you know, the big change in that data, the big and really encouraging thing that we see is that 30 to 39 uh age range plus 13% tracked over that period. And that's a clear indicator that um second careerists are coming to market. And there's a number of reasons for that. I'm happy to talk about them, Sam, but maybe we'll we'll touch about that. Okay. Um so I I think the reason for that is, you know, you look at second careerists who are interested in financial services, they may be a little bit more established in their career. Um so making a shift into, you know, the thing about financial services is there's lots of options that's flexible, self-employed, employed. I think if you're in that age range of 30 to 39, you may be in a position that you can um absorb some of that financial um burden when you go self-employed. You're a little bit, you know, you've maybe got a bit of savings behind you and you can make that transition. I think the other huge thing, um certainly for me, that it indicates is that um, you know, there's there's so much transferable skill in other industries that can um come into our industry. And second career is coming from um certainly in my experience, I see a lot of military, um perhaps teachers, um, perhaps sports individuals, professional sports individuals, and again in that age range, and actually that, you know, within those particular disciplines and others, there's huge transferable skills, um, you know, um, ability to um network, you know, deal with people on a one-to-one basis, ask really good questions, the discipline that comes from military in terms of you know, they can feed into that discipline of being a financial advisor, set days, set meetings, set times, all that kind of stuff. So, look, the data is um encouraging. I think 30 to 39, seeing those second careers coming in, is brilliant. The age range as an average over that piece is certainly reducing. I think it's important that we recognise that and and talk about that. Um, but there are still concerns there. I mean, you know, under 200 individuals um under the age of 25 just tells us as an industry that we're not doing enough to attract those young people in the industry.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

One is on my podcast, the um at the highest age range. Um sorry, the 30 to 39 is the highest percentage of my listeners' age range. So the 30 to 39 spot. We get a lot of people that come through the podcast that have uh transitioned into financial planning as well. So it wasn't like this kind of first point where they've learned about the profession and then end up moving into it. So it is encouraging to hear, encouraging to see. And I think it just hits the nail on the head. There's a lot of academies that are set up and a lot of firms that were set up to be able to cater for the second career financially. They're in a hopefully in a better position to be able to take on a new career. And let's be let's face it, you know, when you're going down a self-employed route, you need a good 12 months in the bank to be able to cover yourself. You need to have some level of financial security, but also a level of confidence, right? Because you're going to go out and you're going to work with people. Um, perhaps you've built relationships with specific niches in the past. I've seen recruitment consultants, I think that's an absolutely killer market in financial planners to look at. And the reason being because recruitment consultants have a niche, they specialise within a certain area. So they have some really key decision makers within businesses, and obviously they've got candidates. So what they do have is a bit like the financial planner life model. I was a recruiter, right? But I understood what financial planist

Routes In Through Protection And Media

SPEAKER_03 16:10

is, but they understand what their audience does. So I think that transferring from recruitment into financial planning is absolute gold. So it's about identifying also all these different areas out there where people can come in, use their existing relationships, use their existing niches and transfer it into financial planning. But I think we see that more in 30 to 39. But how do we get more younger people? Because I've had a couple of, there was a couple of girls that came on the podcast. They are 22 years old, super, super successful, both running their own businesses, right? Both got over 10 million under management. One of the girls' businesses, she's 2023, a business is valued at 440,000 already under St. James's place. It's phenomenal. You know, they struggled, they definitely struggled a bit with the investment side of the business and found like um it was very difficult, you know, difficult to build relationships around that. But where they leaned into quite heavily was the protection. So selling protection. One of them is like the top 0.05% at St. James's place for for selling protection products. You know, and young, you think younger people, if they lean into that, that's gonna bring them into the profession. So that's one area I think. If you're gonna enter into the financial planning, we had um what was her name from our um Helland. Helland we're talking about like you know, uh the value of protection advice. And if you do teach somebody how to sell protection advice, that's a great route into financial planning.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

That's one area I think that we could the the profession could do more of is raising actually what protection is and the value of protection to families and what you're actually doing, which then becomes a lead-in to full fat financial planning. Yeah. What do you guys think? You know, what can we do to get more people involved?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Well, there's a there's a number of routes in and a lot of them have disappeared over the years from a eyesight perspective, it's not obvious where it is, but companies like OWL are starting to rediscover it. It's being rediscovered through protection, funny enough, as a starting point. But if you're young and you come in, and I remember my days being I I can remember that far back, Sam. You'll be amazed to know. Um, but when I was 23, I was promised a client bank, right? And I turned up at my office in Wellington Street in Cheltenham and felt, you know, got my new suit on 23, they never quite fit in the way you expect. And you, you know, walk in shiny shoes and you know, you sit at your desk, and you I pulled my filing cabinet open with three files in it, and you realize straight away you've got a challenge, and it's a difficult one as well. Where do you find the people to talk to? It's all well and good getting the skills, we're good at that. We we put the skills in place, we put the behaviours in place, and we put them put put the knowledge in place. Those things are teachable. Um, but your challenge tends to come from where do I start with who I'm gonna talk to? How do I develop that? And that's a that's a skill in its own right, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Right, yeah, indeed, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Um, so some will come to it because they'll have very supportive firms that they'll come into and there'll be a client bank ready for them to start venturing into. Some will develop their own client banks through talking to their networks. This is why armed forces are brilliant for this. They've got a black book full of contacts and they can just go straight to them away they go. It's it's it's easy for them, and also they're so disciplined, like you say. Give a squaddy a job, right? And that they will just right, that's it. I'm gonna do it, and I'll follow it to the lesser. So just so yeah. Um, but when it comes to and that's the same for every a lot of people, by the way. I'm not saying it, you know, I'm not picking just like that phrase really.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

I think the pro anything process driven around um prospecting, yeah, is gonna work within financial planning. Totally. You know that if you've prospected and you've won clients and won relationships and generated income, you're best positioned to move yourself into financial planning. If you don't have that level of sales and that relationship experience, you're gonna struggle because you've got to learn that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I think we've got to also um, you know, the industry's changed. I think we've got to think about well, if we're going to attract young individuals into the industry, how are we going to do that? Um, you know, the old traditional recruitment methods of past just, you know, they aren't really going to work. I mean, something I was talking about on another podcast recently was around fin fluencers. And look, the reality is is that um, you know, if you're 18, 19 years old, 20 years old, you're probably following a number of finfluencers. You've seen um financial uh services finfluencers coming through. And I think that that's one way, Sam. You know, they have a voice in the market, and actually, um, you know, leaning into that as an industry. Now, it comes with a note of caution, obviously, um, that you know, we work in a regulated industry and there is a potential danger there around fincers that um it shouldn't be seen as advice. But actually, you know, I think that that is a reasonable route to attract individuals, certainly the young individuals into the market. And then um you talk about well, where how else do you do it? Um, you know, it has to be at school, it has to be educating them at school level, it has to be educating them at university level. Um, but social media ultimately is you know, is is the route. Podcasts, what we're doing now, you know. Um, I mean, I know your demographic you mentioned was in that 30 to 40 age range, but I am certain that you'll have you know younger listeners as well. Definitely, 100%. Um, so the stuff that we're talking about now and raising awareness and changing the perception of the industry, you know, it isn't back in the day, you're right, John, you turn up in day one and your gray suit that doesn't fit. And that's how it was, right? And that was the market. And I was the same. My um, I do know what phone books. Who remembers phone books?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yellow pages, and yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

So that was you know what? That's how I prospected back in the day. One of my biggest clients came out the the the phone book. It's not like that now. So, anyway, um, you know, we could uh reminisce about days of old, but the reality is that as an industry, I think we have moved on significantly over the last decade. Um, the data is clear that we're not attracting young people. How do we do that? We have to look. At where young individuals are spending the majority of their time. It's on certainly train them, sorry, not train them, sorry, certainly educate them at school level, university level, around the benefits of coming into the industry. But let's think about social media and perhaps influencers as a great example of that as well.

Sponsor Message From Red Mill

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Hi, sorry for interrupting this episode, but I just wanted to let you know that it's sponsored by Red Mill Advanced. They're the UK's leading provider of interactive e-learning courses, specifically for the financial advice sector. Their best in class e-learning CPD courses span technical knowledge, leadership and management skills, business skills and compliance knowledge, while their exam support courses help your people pass their CII, CISI and NIBF exams first time. It's all delivered on a powerful learning platform that makes reporting CPD to the FDA seamless and gives leadership teams full knowledge and skills visibility across their entire organisation. That's why companies like St. James's Place, Quilter, PLC, Hascot Lloyd, Foster Lenovo and DeVere trust Redmill to keep their advisors and wider teams competent, compliant, and at the top of their game. So to book a free demo, get yourself to redmilladvance.com and they'll do the rest. The two girls I

Why Look Beyond The CII

SPEAKER_03 23:23

mentioned actually, and the reason I got so excited about them was because they were telling me that the content they're putting out on um Instagram is being picked up by young girls in school looking at them and being inspired about what they're doing as a career. And that really kind of made my brain go, there's a chap called Tim Briziana who is um part of the PFS, and he's he's doing a you know a project at the moment uh to educate children about careers, children, young adults, teenagers, about careers within financial playing. And those two girls are just like, well, you have 44, you guys are in your 50s now, right? Yeah. Are they gonna relate to us? No, no, they're gonna relate to the girls that are out there talking on Instagram on the platforms and TikTok that they're on, and that's the people that we need to inspire to be able to build media around them to be seen as a really interesting career to get into. So those two girls have actually um both agreed that they're gonna get stuck in with the financial plan of life and we'll create some content that's aimed at that at that younger generation. Yeah, I think it's just super important, and we would all have to kind of find those different ways to do it. Qualifications are never going to change though, are they? You're gonna need you're gonna you're gonna need your qualifications in financial planning.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

I mean, you know, CII is a big name that everybody hears. You've got the CISI out there as well, and of course you've got the L IBF. Definitely. Um, I think you know, what I really want to do today is um I want to do a bit of a deep dive into the LIBF and understand it a bit more so people kind of don't just go directly for, say, the CII, which that tends to have a bit of a monopoly, you know, in in some respects. Um, and the more I learn about the LIBF, um London's Institute of Banking and Finance and the qualification and the platform and um how you've developed the qualification over the years as well, it sounds really, really interesting. So we want to deep dive into that. Just you train out all three, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

We do. So we are uh agnostic in terms of um the professional bodies. Um so we train CII across uh both the level four and level six range, so our range and through the AFs. And we do that at academy level, so large employers. Um we train the CISI as well. So we have our route to level four on that, which is the IAD, um, and then we also train through PCIAM as well, which is our route to level six there. And then we um support and work very closely with the the LIBF as well, and uh we work slightly differently with the L IBF in terms of um how we've developed our content, which again we'll sure we'll go on to talk about. Um and we run large scale academies together in partnership. And actually, one of the names snuck out earlier, which I'm sure they won't mind us mentioning, is Quilter. And that's been a recent project, um, and we've worked really closely together in partnership on that just to achieve the best client outcome, Sam. So, yeah, we we work across all three bodies, um, and the LIBF is is certainly part of that.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Fantastic. Can you break down a little bit about how that L LBF qualification is made up? Are there modules and it's six in the CII, how many are in the LIBF? So give us a breakdown of

How The LIBF Level 4 Works

SPEAKER_03 26:22

that.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Yeah, so we we are six modules again. Um we the um standard is exactly the same throughout all qualification awarding bodies. So when you look at the um they call them the APEC standard, so we're not gonna get too technical. You can look it up if you want to, but it's it it's um basically a set of standards that all qualification awarding bodies have to uh face into, and we have to ensure that the FCA are happy with the content that we've put together and it's examined in exactly the right way. So we are off-qual recognised as well as FCA recognised as well. So, first and foremost, anybody that's in any doubt whatsoever that one qualification awarding body is above the other, that's it totally incorrect. They all follow exactly the same standards. What differs is the methodology and the way that people learn from us. We have always been, first of all, quite academic in the past, and that sounds like it's a bit of a grey matter kind of way approach to learning, but actually it's completely the opposite of that. What we're well, I say that you do need to have some brain cells clearly. Um well, mine are decreasing significantly in the in the last few years. But legs are good, legs in the marathon. So um, but what I what I mean by that is that we're a lot more practical. So what we want um students to do is to think for themselves, and by thinking for themselves, they learn in a in a different style, in a different way. We're not um you know, textbook driven. In fact, we don't have a textbook, everything's online. Um, you can order a textbook, but um we which we can print off through Amazon, Amazon no problem at all. But our primary focus is to use an online tool um using our um LMS, our learning management system called Brightspace. We have total uh autonomy over and we develop our own learning um systems through that particular platform. And the way it works is completely um autonomous to any external learning. However, a lot of training partners really like the way that we do it because it means they can plug in their own digital learning resources very, very easily to it. Hence the reason why um David and the team at Red Mill have been absolutely uh passionate about bringing their learning systems towards ours, and actually it just fits in quite nicely. And of course, the way that we work together is if there's any um doubt about some of the learning materials, we can change them instantly, and it's then changed for the learner instantly and updated, and we our updates are phenomenally quick, um, to the point that actually our learners don't notice if we've made any changes, we do it so seamlessly. Um, but the six modules, so as you would expect, we have uh the regulation model, which a module, which of course everybody seems to be a little bit reticent about, they're never very keen on financial services regulation and ethics. Um, I I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to this. So I actually retook my financial services regulation ethics over Christmas, and so I'm quite a recent adopter of the way our studies work, and I can tell you, you know, just because I'm the director of financial services, it doesn't mean to say I'm not close to the way the learning works. And um this the experience was phenomenal. I used to train it a long time ago when I was at intrinsic, uh, so that particular subject matter is quite close to my heart. I don't find it as dull as other people, but that's just me. Um, but the examinations, each of each one of the modules is split into two. So you can have your cornflakes and your cup of ear grey in the morning, take module one, pass it, hopefully, um, and then go away, do a bit of work, do a little bit of study, have a bit of lunch, and then do module two in the afternoon, and rather than taking the entire exam all in one go, but the exams are taken at home. Yeah. And so you don't need to leave the comfort your home. You there is a set of circumstances you have to go through to get the room checked and get a camera and a webcam to look at the room. They are remotely invigilated, they are recorded, so if there's any case of any possible cheating going on, it will be picked up. Um, but that said, when you're taking the exam, you forget about all of that and you just focus on the exam uh in your slippers if you want to, um, and do it in whatever room you're comfortable in in your in your house, and then um get your results practically immediately.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Um it's very instant and it's very controllable via the person who's going through the process. Totally. Well, somebody who fails an exam, how quickly can they retake it? Immediately.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Now we wouldn't recommend that clearly. But you'll be surprised. Some there are there's the odd person that will potentially fail something. And let's be fair about it, regulation ethics, it does happen. You know, we we have a pass rate that is exactly the same as the rest of the that are as our competitors. Um, but what you tend to find is that the student might fail by one mark, uh, which is hard to take. When you walk out of an exam room, traditionally you've met and you've missed by one mark, you're kicking yourself, and then you've got a rebook, and it's going to be two or three weeks away, and you know, then you've got to go back and restudy again, and it takes a bit of time to get your knowledge. It's a bit like um uh if you look at Slash from Guns N' Roses, right? Okay, you know, phenomenal guitarists, and we go on or Brian May is this exactly my uh obviously I've got I'm wearing wearing the badge, so clearly I am a fan. Um but it doesn't matter who you are, to get yourself back up to performance level, you've got to do a lot of practice, okay? So these guys don't turn up at a venue and just say, Right, okay, here we go, right? Give me the guitar and away we go. Splash probably does. Actually, he probably could, to be fair, but he does play every day to be fairness. Yeah, exactly. But it takes a while to sort of get into that performance mode, and so and this is no different with exams. So um, if you're kind of on the cusp of passing and you want to take it in the afternoon and rebook, then you can do that, which is absolutely a phenomenal way of doing things. And obviously, we do restrict the number of retakes you take because clearly, if you've missed three times, that's not necessarily you're not going to suddenly pass four times on the fourth attempt.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

If I have to retake it, do I have to retake the whole exam?

SPEAKER_02 32:31

You don't. That's the beauty of it. So if you if you've got financial services regulation and ethics and it's split into two modules, um, you you pass module one, fail module two, then you just take module two, whereas traditionally you'd have had to have taken the entire exam all over again. You don't need to do that with L IBF. Right. And then the other four modules that are multiple choice are taxation and trusts, investments and pensions, um, and protection. And once you've done those, you can then do the case study. Now, this is the final sort of um traditionally a written exam that we and we used to have a written exam for that particular module a long time ago, but we changed that. It was something that I was very I in fact, I instigated that within L IBF to get that changed because uh you do not get the best exam performance from somebody who's just learns from a case study and then regurgitates that in an exam room and just writes it down, and that's not necessarily the way to get good performance.

Case Study Assessment Done Differently

SPEAKER_02 33:33

So we changed it to a case study where you've got six weeks to put that case study together. There is full plagiarism software out there that will measure it and mark and make sure that there's nothing going on between the candidates, that they're doing their own work. Each case study is changed every six weeks, so they're getting something different every six weeks. Um, they are manually marked, so you don't get an instant result on those, but actually, that's no different to if it was a written exam. And the beauty of it is it's always one going. So if you if you do happen to fail that case study, then you literally just jump onto the next one and start and start again. So it's really not a difficult thing, you're not going to get sort of too far behind on that one. Whereas with the written exam, you get all that stress of having to sort of learn it and redo it all over again. Um, and the beauty of it is that when you've done your case study, it's yours. I I always like that analogy, you know, you've done all that work, and a lot of those you write it down, you send it off to the exam centre, and that's it. Actually, you keep, you know, you've sent it and and uploaded it, but actually that's your work, and that's the whole practical element of the way we like to work is that actually, you know, what you've learned, you keep and you retain, and you can use it over and over again, but it's very, very practical to the day job because you're doing a case study and you can ask a colleague for advice on certain things, you can do the research as you're going along, and you can formulate your own dissertation effectively before you submit it, which I think is just phenomenal. Plus, you know, alongside um training partners like such as Redmill, they give all the coaching as to how to go about completing it properly as well, you know, how you go about putting the case study together.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Sorry, yeah, Kirkham.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

No, I was just going to say exactly that. Sam, there's some, as you can probably hear actually, there's some key differences uh in the L IBF route to level four and actually level six as well, versus others.

How Red Mill Supports LIBF Learners

SPEAKER_00 35:19

I mean, for us, um, it made more sense for us to not rewrite the entire LIBF training so uh because it's so good and it's delivered in in a certain way on the LIBF LMS. So instead, what we chose to do was write supplementary material. Um so we do have supplementary learning material that feeds into the LIBF material and references that and feeds back to it. It's digital learning, so that sits within our LMS, but as John mentioned, and we make sure that that's very seamless for the delegate. And then one of the key things, as again, John's just mentioned, is we will um it's our tutors that will train. I think Quilter's a great example of that, both at level four and level six, actually. They can access that supplementary um digital um support, which is obviously helping enhance the potential of that pass, um, but also access the expert tutors, and that's on a weekly basis in terms of you know those important touch points, and it's also um classroom time at the end of that learning to make sure that we're kind of putting the icing on the cake at the end of that digital learning. And then there's some other really great stuff in there. I mean, um, that again is different. Um, you know, things like and for example, the fact that each exam is broken into two parts, and you don't have to, you can, you know, if you fail one part of it, you only have to to reset that. Um, and you can understand why some clients out there might um feel that that route is um a particularly good way to support, you know, the delegates that are moving through through those academies. Um so yeah, we we support it in a supplementary way rather than rewriting the in the entire content like we do for for other academies, and it works extremely well.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Just seems like such a modern, flexible approach to training, the LMS. It it really, really does. And you've obviously subscribed to that model, you've built a whole business around it. So it kind of feels a little bit like a match made in heaven. And I think if you do then bring in the classroom-based stuff, which you obviously phenomenal as well, it becomes an extra benefit, doesn't it? Another add-on, another tool to the learning experience through the L IBF, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

I would say, you know, without a shadow of a doubt, um it's so complementary to each other, you know. First of all, it's a huge compliment that you know, the way that David likes the way that we do our digital learning, it's practical and very easy for a training provider to take their learning materials and just put the two together. Um, because the standards, as we've already discussed, you know, you you are still training the same things, you're still learning the same things to become a financial advisor. But the route through to completion of that, we've taken this very digital, very forward-thinking approach, very flexible approach. Yeah, but also equally, you know, if we think about our client here, you know, Quilter, one of their real um huge mandates is to get these people through for their clients

Speed Versus Readiness In Academies

SPEAKER_02 38:10

and working as financial planners in a very, very good rate of time. So you and the balance is really difficult, you know, you don't want to whoosh them through, get them to a point where they're you know signed off but not necessarily ready for the job. And then at that point they fail because they find it difficult to not only apply their knowledge, they also find it difficult to then create the client banks that we've been talking about to actually try and do the marketing and all the other bits that make an advisor successful. Um, but at the same time, you don't want to be too long in the process where they because it's a costly process, you know, it's an expensive expense not only for the employers or the for the for the for the advice firms or for the nationals or for the for the network, um, it's expensive for somebody who's career changing. Because the longer it takes them to learn to earn money, the more they're going to be under a huge amount of personal stress and pressure in order to perform. And that's the worst thing, isn't it? It's it when you're under pressure to perform in sales, especially. And I'm I'm I say sales because it's not the dirty word everybody seems to think it is far from it. We say it all the time on it. Oh, that's okay. I mean, good company. Yes, we you know, we are an advice profession and we are a profession, absolutely no no way about it, no two ways about it, but you've got it, you you have to sell your service to a customer. That's phenomenally important. But at the end of it, you you know, I've seen it over years and years and years of advisor development, and we have a habit sometimes of rinsing good people through a system that doesn't necessarily work for them. We talk about different people with learning styles, there are different people with working style, different styles as well, and how they approach work is it can be different. So the the squatty uh analogy we've just used, that's easy because you you you just say, right, point them in that direction, just you know, make sure you're on your feet and go and wind them up and off they go. And it's as easy is as simple as that. But there are some people that need a little bit of nurturing, a little bit of guidance. This is how you do that, and then there are others that are real brilliant self-starters, like the ladies you were mentioning earlier on. I mean, what a what an incredible pair. I mean, that sounds like the dynamic duo to me, and that's really what you want in business. And there are some people that are picking that stuff up and going with it. So imagine the perfect storm, and this is really, you know, uh something that I'm clearly passionate about, and something I really want to see more of in the industry before I leave it in 10 years, if we can turn the dial on the younger people coming in who appreciate the digital learning, but are also skilled in the marketing elements that are different to how the later generations are using marketing, they're clearly different and using different um platforms to develop their clients. Where do they start? Well, actually, marketing to their own age group is great, but they don't have any money. So you start with protection, you move on to mortgages, and then the wealth then gets handed over. And we know that there's the great wealth handover that's coming and is currently going on at the moment, those people will become wealthy, but you develop them as clients from an early age, and then you work with them throughout life.

Prospecting Skills And Building A Client Bank

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Do you do you provide prospecting training? Um, it does go the academies, doesn't it? Really, that's the main area.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah, I mean, look, as a training provider, um, we do. So we have um it's in a number of areas of our digital training um around how to network, how to conduct meetings, you know, it gives those that that guidance. Um we take some of that into the classroom as well. I mean, from an academy perspective, Sam, um, we are largely responsible for what we call the kind of first term. So that's getting people qualified in the quickest possible time frame. Well, sorry, that's not necessarily true in the most efficient time frame and in the most efficient way. So we tend to be that first part, but in all academies, there is a handover then to part two and part three and part four. And that actually, in general, with the large academy provider sits with them that they will train their people on um, you know, those particular skills. But yeah, I mean, look, as a training provider, we we train this stuff, we have digital content, we take it into the classroom and we teach these soft skills, these behaviours, you know, the things that you have to do to enable you to build a business. Because that's what we're talking about here, right? Building a client bank, building a business, networking, prospecting, key parts of the role of a financial advisor.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Yeah, I love it. One thing I love about the LIBF um qualification as well is it does offer that flexibility. So going back to that, if somebody is not feeling a hundred percent on the day that the actual exam would be under another body, you know, they still got to go or they've got to cancel, right? Whereas you could actually just go, right, I'm gonna change that date, or I'm going to I'm gonna do it at a different time, or I feel really good, I feel really confident, so I'm gonna actually go in there and do the do my exam today. Yeah, you can do that, right? You can do that completely, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's just powerful. That just that gives people the control about because people get anxious, right? People get worried about exams and like you know, and you want to be able to do it when you're in the right frame of mind. And um, I think that just gives another level of control, which I think people will it does, it absolutely does, and that is certainly the case.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Um,

Structure, Tracking And Exam Flexibility

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I would say with academies particularly, though, Sam, um, you know, it tends to be quite structured and because that's important for the um the client. And what I mean by that is there'll be a set structure for the cohorts, the delegates that we train that will say you're moving through the self study over this period. So the digital access, the digital study online. You're then getting time in the classroom, you're then getting that kind of endpoint where we bring everything together into a day's training virtually, and the exams tend to follow that. So you're absolutely right in what you're saying that there is that flexibility. Um, but for those academies, it tends to be quite structured. Which actually is really important because if you're entering an academy programme, you want that structure. You know, you want that the ability to look at something and say, right, well, there's a start point and there's an end point, and it's mapped out for me in a way that's very structured.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

And the and the way we support that is at any time, every candidate that is going through that academy, we can inform David and his team, and we can also inform Quilter's team as well, exactly where each student is on their journey. Are they fitting in with that timetable? Are they taking their exams at the points that they're saying they're taking those exams, what their passes are, or if there is a failure, what's going on with that? And they have real-time data from us, which I think is extremely important. Um, that way, then all three, you can imagine it's you know, it's it's it's a quite an effort to get three companies to um coordinate this sort of um, you know, at the end of the day, 20 to 30 students at a time, and then a regular occurrence of those going right the way through the year, and knowing exactly where each one of those students is, it's uh it's an art, it's an art form that my team has that I do not possess, but that's why I have a great team, you know, and that's why we, you know, we work towards. So that that in itself is very, really good. The the original question you said about, you know, okay, um, I can I can just book on and book off. The interesting way our system works is that you don't actually book your exam. There is no booking system, you just decide you're going to take the exam. Right. In the same so you basically open the if you can imagine it, if I give you um, you know, analogy, if you look at the textbook, by the way, for those that are listening a bit younger, the textbook is like Google made out of a tree. Okay, so that's you know, it's the paper thing. Um, but if you go to the last page and the exam's on the back page, you just go to that and take the exam, right? That's what it's like. You literally click the button that takes you to the exam. There's no booking involved, and you just take the exam. It's as simple as that. And if you need to rebook, you go back into the system and you rebook. If you are ill and you need to rebook it, you can you you don't there's no rebooking because you haven't booked it in the first place, if that makes sense. You are when you're ready, you

Chartered Status And Chartered Member

SPEAKER_02 46:11

take it.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

So with the L IBF, I know with the CISI, uh the CII, there's a big emphasis on chartered, and financial planners do want to be chartered. You know, there's a big emphasis on becoming chartered, especially now it's being considered as a profession. Um, what about the LIBF? Can they go chartered?

SPEAKER_02 46:26

They can go chartered, and and we're bringing something new to market very, very soon as well, which is amazing. So we will be bringing together a chartered membership. So we already run chartered associate of our um sister company, effectively the L FBF. They hold the Royal Charter. Um, so you can become uh Chartered Associate of the L FBF for level six, as you'd normally have for level six routes, and that is obviously exactly the same level as you would be at the CII, CISI. You gain that chartered status. Um, however, what we've recognized is that there are others that you know, and actually there's only 15% of the marketplace that are at that chartered associate level, but actually, there's a lot of um advisors out there and a lot of mortgage advisors and financial advisors that are at level four, are studying, are continually showing exceptionally good CPD, continual learning, are doing a phenomenal job for their clients, but never really reach chartered status of any description. Now we're going to be introducing something called chartered member. And the chartered member means that as long as you can show you that you're qualified, that you can pass an ethics paper, and that you have, if you're level four, three years CPD, um, or at level three, mortgage advisor, four years CPD, you can become a chartered member of the LF LIBF, which I think is a phenomenal thing to have. Something new to market, and it is recognition of ongoing professionalism and ongoing learning, which we are all about. We're very, very proud of that. And that flexibility and that digital approach and that approach that allows us to be able to do that sort of thing is simply because we are dedicated to getting that new profession through where they are recognized for being the brilliant advisors that they are without having to go down the uh go into that level six where they get a higher level of uh recognition at Chartered Associateship. So you can be a chartered member or chartered associate of LF L IBF, which I think is just tremendous. Uh so watch out for that. That's coming very soon. Um absolutely uh really excited about that one.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

So and that's the same with it because it's on the learning platform as well, is it?

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Yeah, yeah. So basically you come through us, you apply through our our website. Um, we um will obviously look for evidence of that CPD, so it has to be recorded, has to be recorded in a normal way. Uh for financial advisors, actually, this is pretty straightforward, right? But for mortgage advisors, a bit of a new thing. However, it's often seen that mortgage advisors don't have a regulatory need to do CPD. But what we've discovered while we've been doing the research to put this together is, and it's really exciting to say this, that actually when you look at the majority of mortgage advisors out there, they do CPD and they record it and they record it with their networks, and the rec networks ask them to do it and they do it willingly. And so it's they don't really get the recognition for the job they do in this very, very difficult marketplace, the mortgage market. And then to move those mortgage advisors on to become the wealth managers of the future, it's an ideal opportunity to recognize them for what they're they're really good at, you know, and and and they are the future when it comes to there's a part of the research that um we did through the uh FCA as well as the research that Langcat have done, there is an intersection of mortgage advisors and financial advisors. So about 8,000, um, so we've got 30, 35,000 at the top end. Of those, about 8,000 are also mortgage advice qualified as well. So there's like I bet you never thought you'd ever see a Venn diagram ever again after leaving school, right? But you could put a Venn diagram in place and the intersection in the middle, there's 8,000 in there that do both. Um, and but you know, they do this incredible job of being we talk about the holistic advisor, uh, and the holistic advisor often looks at mortgage advice, financial advice, and in a lot of respects, later life planning as well, because it's a very mortgage transaction-related um uh industry and qualification. All those together, to me, add up to a huge amount of learning that those individuals have done without going to the level six side of things, and they should be recognized for um the work that they've achieved and the professionalism and ongoing learning that they've shown, and that's where the chartered membership comes in.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Yeah, it's very cool. I mean, I can attest to that, you know. I mean, we um in terms of the CPD systems that we have, it automatically records and records and reports on um advisor CPD, but we segment it into core PTS if you're a more uh pension transfer specialist. Um there's some IDD in there. We won't talk about IDD not being a thing anymore because most companies are still recording 15 hours um and mortgage. So actually we get to see this now. Interestingly, I think that's great actually to hear. That's that's a new one to me as well. So that's uh really great to hear. But we support first. No, it's brilliant. Yeah, well, it's fantastic to hear because um we support that level six journey, but clearly a big part of what we do is supporting CPD. Now, what's interesting, John, is that within our CPD recording and reporting tool, at the click of a button, you can export as either a CII export or a CISI export because the way that that's uploaded back to those professional bodies are slightly different. But now I'm thinking we need an L IBF export in there as well. So uh we must take this offline with the podcast finishes.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

I literally got approved last Thursday.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

So this is obviously, you know, we've not had a chance to well we we are literally going through version three of our CPD recording and reporting tool. We're investing to release a new version very soon. So if you're quick, we might be able to build that. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

I think there's a challenge we ought to face up to straight away. I think there's some really exciting stuff. So yeah, definitely.

Better Collaboration With Professional Bodies

SPEAKER_03 52:26

I think the collaboration between you know the training companies and companies such as the L IBF, you know, it's it's needed, isn't it? Is it becoming more um more like that over the last couple of years? Are you feeling like you are building more of an allegiance with the CI, CISI, LIBF?

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yeah, I mean I absolutely feel that way. The relationship with John is you know, we've become uh very close and the it's very important because you're building a partnership, and actually a partnership you know equals trust that's about feeding back both ways. And we do that, you know. We um John's very receptive to feedback. We um have reviewed all of the L IBF's content as part of writing our supplementary content with that. We've actually fed into that, and John's been really receptive around um some of that feedback equally so it comes back to herself. So that partnership is very close, and that can only be good for the client, Sam. You know, when you're working together, professional body and training provider, that's going to be good for the client. But it's the same for the other professional bodies. Um, I had invited um one of the directors at the uh CII onto the podcast. They couldn't um make the sessions that we're doing today, but would like to come along to another one. Um again, we're very close with that body. It's really, really important that we are. I I speak to them. And similarly, you know, we're an accredited partner of the the CISI. Um, if you look at our CISI content, when that digital content's been delivered, there's a representative there at the start of our digital material saying, hi, you know, you're looking at Red Mills material, we endorse Red Mills. So having that um relationship with the professional bodies and truly building that in the sense that there is a you know a real um honest, open uh feedback, it it's only good ultimately for the clients that are accessing that content. So to your question, yes, I think that um we certainly strive to have a close working relationship, in fact, a partnership with those professional bodies great stuff.

Starting An Academy And Recruitment Fit

SPEAKER_03 54:29

Now, if someone's listening to this right now, they're an individual learner, okay, or they could be a company that's thinking of considering uh setting up an academy or something along those lines. What should they do? How should they reach out? How should they start their journey?

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Um, well, from my perspective, um, so academies are our bread and butter. You know, we're known for it in the market in terms of those exam academies. Um, so the first thing to know is if you're launching an academy at scale, it's not just about the training and development, it's everything that happens behind that academy, Sam. I mean, of course it's about the training and development, right? Because you're wanting to move hundreds of people through uh, you know, get them qualified in the the most efficient and first-time best first time pass rates, it's important that you know that training provider is good at what they do. But when you're trying to launch something at scale, L IBF Academy, CII Academy, whatever it may be, there's so much more goes on in the background. You know, when you're trying to coordinate cohorts of 15 to 20 people over you know, 400 people, it's a lot of administration. So they have to think about this stuff, you know, all the coordination in the background. We do that as a training provider, it's not just about you know that front-end um training. So that's a big consideration. Um, I think another big consideration to think about when you are um looking at a large-scale academy is uh you know, contingency that um we have um a number of chartered trainers or a number of senior trainers that deliver into you know our blended training into the classroom. Um, if one of our trainers happens to be sick, we had an instance actually literally just two weeks ago. You know, we had training to be delivered at 9:30. Um, we had a phone call at 8 a.m. in the morning. One of our trainers who was delivering that daughter was really unwell. We were able to find a solution to that because we have multiple trainers. So, again, that's something that you have to think about when you're launching something at scale is how can we make this work? How can we make sure that the machine behind the actual training itself is running really efficiently and we take all of all of that on. But ultimately, I think you know, if you're considering launching or looking at an academy, you want to be part of the solution to solving the advice gap. It starts with you know picking up the phone and speaking to us. Um, and as I say, it's our bread and butter. So not only can we support your academy, but we can tell you the best way to put it together, to launch it, to structure it, to run it. Um, so yeah, it starts with a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

What about this I'll finish on this one? What's a common misconception that firms have around starting academies?

SPEAKER_00 56:59

A common misconception, you're putting me on the spot with that one. Um, a common misconception. Um, do you know where it really starts with academies, um, Sam? Is it actually starts with the recruitment of the individuals that are ultimately going to be part of that academy? And actually, it's really important that you get that right. It's really important that you have a robust assessment model for the individuals that you want to bring into your academy. Because look, our job is to train them, is to get them ready to walk into that exam or set the exam from home and actually pass it. But really, for these companies, they are um building really well-trained financial advisors to ultimately go out and give advice. There's a commercial element to this, you know, the clients long term, these advisors will be working for this company, will generate revenue for the organization. You want to make sure that starts with a good, robust recruitment process, and the people that you are bringing into your academies and you know are going to be the right type of individual for your organization. And I've seen this work in both ways. You know, I've worked within um some academies where we've had to coach that a little bit around the quality of recruit that's coming through. Um so I would say that in terms of your question, a common misconception is that it really isn't as simple as you fill that hopper and everything's going to be okay. You actually have to have a really strong understanding of the types of individuals that you want to attract into your academy in the first place. So it starts with a good recruitment process.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

I love it. Listen, Champs, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for coming in and sharing your uh your journey together. Brilliant to learn about the L IBF. I'm super interested in it. I know if I was starting a financial advice business with an academy, I think I'd be leaning into the L IBF. For me, it's the flexibility. That's the key thing. I don't want to be able to have to force somebody to go down a specific route. I want them to choose the path that they take, how they learn, you know, times they take exams, retaking things without stress or pressure. Um, and also to be able to do things at their own speed. I think that's really, really important as well. So no one's getting frustrated in the process. But what I also like is just the is the level of detail that you go into in respect of the learning data and how that's fed back. But also, as you said, you know, these great big workbooks are they really needed? So if you're creating content that's for a diverse range of learners, which is super important, and we had an episode on neurodiversity as well. That's very excellent stuff. Really, really good stuff and the great work they're doing over there at Redmill. So they really care and understand about all these different learning styles. So for me, you're ticking that box in the new world when it comes to passing qualifications within financial planning. So I'm really looking forward to learning more about what's going on at the L IBF and the journey that you're on and the advancements that you're making to your platform. Because I think it's going to impact new people coming in, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 59:50

We we've literally scratched the surface of what we're capable of, you know.

Apprenticeships, AI And The Close

SPEAKER_02 59:54

We've moved into apprenticeships now. So come and talk to us about that. You know, um, there's a great, you know, what you've just talked about on the academies and the the misconceptions. Not starting one is a is a missed opportunity if you don't get it right. And then more than anything else, to encourage that those young people in a supported route through to drive the very, very best of our industry forward, to get the numbers up that are needed to service those clients in the future, and to understand actually as the change is happening in technology and how the changes happen for the population of the profession in its own right. You know, people are worried about, oh, you know, why would I go into financial advice? It's a bigger, you know, bigger thing here, but you know, AI and uh that's going to do the job surely and all the rest of it. I can assure you the FCA don't view it that way. They do see AI. I think AI, you know, how have we got through this entire podcast without mentioning AI? Somebody explained that in that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Yeah, we um it's an important topic. Uh AI not today, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

But it but it has to be said that you know, be assured that AI will change the job, but it won't stop the people being part of it. And I think that's the real key to it, you know, is where do we all fit into that? And I think that the relationship management that a financial advisor brings to their their customers for the future is so so important and will continue to be so. So that's the way I view it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time today. Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

Thanks, absolute pleasure. Thanks, Sam.