Jay: 0:00

One thing is don't get caught up on the mileage it you know, everybody's journey, whatever distance it is, is equally as difficult or meaningful to them as this was to me. So I encourage everyone to just have fun with it. You know, have fun with running. If you really enjoy it, you know, try to challenge yourself to go further but never think about the mile is just think about you know, the adventure that you're having doesn't matter how far it is.

Chris: 0:32

Welcome to the Find your edge podcast. Get ready to dive into all things training, nutrition, recovery and more. With your new or experienced endurance athlete, a weekend warrior or someone who just wants to improve your health and fitness. This podcast is for you. I'm Chris Newport, founder, head coach, registered dietitian, exercise physiologist and certified personal trainer with the endurance edge and the fueling edge. With more than 20 years experience in the fitness industry. 18 years in multi sport in over 10 years as a sports nutritionist. I'm speaking with athletes, experts about key actionable steps you can take to reach and sustain peak performance and health. Let's do it. Right. Welcome back to the Find your edge podcast. This is your host, Chris Newport. And today. I'm here with one of my athletes. Jay Daly, who just finished the mountains to see 100 miler, and I found your story. absolutely fascinating. And you were just incredibly humble. And so I wanted to share your story with the world or at least with the podcast world. So thank you so much for joining us. Well, yeah. Thanks, coach. Thanks for thinking of me. And it was a unique journey. And maybe this will be good for others that are interested in taking on something like an ultra. Yeah, yeah. So tell us a little bit about your background. Because you you have like great notes to send me usually I'm sending people questions, you were like sending me all your stuff. So I love this like you You do have a background in sport. But give us a little bit of some highlights there.

Jay: 2:14

Yeah, sure. I mean, it is a fairly humble background, and probably some of the athletes that you work with. I didn't do any sports in college other than intramurals, I was a high school athlete. But, you know, in terms of running and competing and things, it really only fostered itself through the last few years where I was just picked up running for kind of a weight loss thing. And then in 2005 2015, I did a few, you know, five K's 10 K's you know, for the fun, and it helps keep you motivated through running. And then I had some friends that were runners and they said you should try some other stuff. So, you know, in the background, I did some Spartan races, and I did the trifecta. And that was cool. You know, that's the three races if they have in one year that you can compete. And then I moved on to the marathon scene. So I did a couple marathons in 2018. Locally, or the state of North Carolina with the tobacco road, which actually is running tomorrow, for those that are living in the area. Yeah, everyone. Yeah, yeah. Right. And then I did the Outer Banks won in 2018. And I realized, you know, Boston was gonna be a difficult Feat. I'm not that fast of a runner.

Chris: 3:28

And those times you definitely don't give yourself enough credit, by the way, so

Jay: 3:35

well, fast, in a sense of what I see those times, those folks turning out, so yeah, it's all in relative terms. But you know, I've always loved running. And you know, I've been doing it for the last 20 years. So I thought, well, let me just go to the next stage and see what it's like to run past the marathon distance. And in April of 2019, I did my first 50k on the MST, that was the bluejay point to the falls, dam and back. And I thought yeah, that was probably the hardest thing I'd ever done, you know, with everything prior to that, including the marathons and the Spartan races, but I was hooked. Yeah, it was a new environment. It was a cool environment, that runners that's a little bit different than mentality and it yet really that endurance is the challenge. So from there 2020 we all know what happened in 2020 COVID hit, which I'm sure a lot of your athletes have experienced in terms of racing and training hurdles and trying to figure out how to stay motivated and stay fit for that next race. But um, you know, I buried through it and I did a 50 miler around my neighborhood that was kind of a virtual thing because my my race have been canceled by COVID in the spring of last year. But I figured out we started working together. Like barely on the cusp of pre COVID. Yep, yeah, yeah. So yeah, and you you had some encouraging thoughts there to, you know, keep the goals in place for sure. And I, I'm glad I faked it. Well, yeah, no, no, it was. And you know, and that is a key thing, too. I mean, because I think race is probably motivate most people, you know, they give that goal, you know, so you have something where you're just not, it's a little more structured, and you have something to look forward to. And Yep, and then, you know, did that 50 mile an hour and then it did another like endurance. Make sure that I repeat this. You did a 50 miler on your own. Yeah, yeah. It's like this. This is not a typical situation. I mean, yes, it was COVID. But still, you were like, I'm doing it. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna do it in my neighborhood. And you did yeah. Yeah, yeah. So that one it was interesting you know, you kind of parked your mobile care unit into elementary school parking lot near my house and had you know, all the aid station things that you would need right there and, and kind of just plot it out a few 50 miler out in backs, with your camel backs and all those things that you carry. And, and that race that will that that virtual experience. I did have some friends that knew I was doing it jumped in. And about the mile 30 to about 45. I had a couple of friends that kind of came out into the room with me. And then my wife ran with me the last three to five miles of that one. So that was pretty cool. Yeah. And then from there, I did a cool one, which if we touch base on later, but it was a four by four by 48. So if you're thinking about ultras, this is a kind of a neat one too, that did around my house, it's four miles every four hours for 48 hours. So you really get used to that kind of sleep deprivation and running and eating and hydrating. And then the before the before the big one before the 100 miler and November coaches, you know, you helped me get through that 100k. So I kind of ticked off all these major running milestones through the marathons, a 50 K's a 50 mile earns 100k. That was the Wake Up Calls. 100k. Because I think, you know, we talked a lot after that one and before it, I think without your running, support, and the nutrition and the hydration testing that we had done and all that the 100 miler would have been a lot harder of a thing to achieve. And that you did that in. I think it was November, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. November another COVID. cancellation? Yeah.

Chris: 7:35

But kudos for, for sticking with it. So would you say leading up to it? Do you think you're like four by four by 48? was really crucial in preparation or what what do you think was? Or do you think it was just kind of the the journeys just sort of going through all of that whole process of doing marathons and Spartans and then leading up to that 100?

Jay: 7:59

Yeah, all that had a piece, you know, that was really integrated into the thought process. This Spartan was one, you know, with that, you know, it's it's an obstacle course type racing. So he did have to do some strength training, there wasn't a lot of running, but it was interval. And then when I was looking back at the after the 100, you know, that was a lot of you ran in between the obstacles, or you walked and you're on, that's the rugged type terrain, and it's totally different. I enjoyed it for that time that I did it, but I wasn't, I wasn't really, you know, kind of, I liked the outdoor sport that obstacles I let's just say I did a lot of burpee penalties for those that no Spartan races. But yeah, then the marathons, you know, those were, that really introduced me into, like, what a real training plan was gonna look like, I tried to create one on my own, you know, and I think that's probably why I got hung up on I wasn't gonna make Boston I think if I had more coaching there, like you said, that probably wasn't an achievable goal, and maybe it still is. And then the other the other ones like the MST, 50k, that was of course, you know, trail running. And just that that long term on the trail, and then the four by four by 48, was that that was a great piece of either run it during the nighttime, and you experience a little bit more of that fatigue, and that weird nutrition and eating kind of on off schedules and trying not to cramp up and hydrate correctly. So I think each one of those things kind of had a piece of education with it.

Chris: 9:32

Very cool. So now we get to race day, because your race story is fabulous. And and I will I do want to touch on first that the fact that your wife ran those last couple of miles of yours sort of training, race COVID kind of situation. How integral Do you feel like support is for doing something like this?

Jay: 9:57

Yeah, it's um should not be overlooked. I don't even know if I'm going to say it with enough emphasis that not even just, it's this moral piece that kind of pulls you along. Because you do kind of find your mind drifting into places that can talk you out of things, they can talk you into walking more, where you probably physically can be running, they give you the distraction, the conversation, that camaraderie, you know that the familiarity of someone like your wife, or a close running friend or partner that maybe has done some training with you knows what you can't see, you know, so they might see that you have something left in the tank, or they might need to tell you when to slow down and you know, you're going too fast, or you know, all those types of things that you really don't pay attention to while you're running or you forget about because you're all you're trying to do is put one foot in front of the other at certain points. So it's anybody that's doing is to try to recruit friends, or someone that you may find that's doing the race or reach out this is they have a lot of training runs for these races with the community that's going to be running them. And you might make some contacts there and join up with them even during their race. So yeah, all that is hugely important.

Chris: 11:16

And that's also not to say you have a family. What did your kids think of this?

Jay: 11:23

I guess they've just kind of gotten used to it. But the extended family that I have, you know, to with my dad and my mom and my sisters, when they when I talked about the 100 they, I don't know maybe they didn't believe I was gonna do it. But they, my dad, still he was a he was he is a marine. And he thought he's like, I never can't conceive, like what you just did. Because you know, we've I never had to do anything, something like that. So some of those little things, they really put in perspective about what it actually takes to do the 100 miler, I think because I ran so much since before my kids were born, it's kind of become second nature. So the distances, they don't even think they bat an eye anymore. They just kind of think I'm a little crazy or a little off. And that's just who I am.

Chris: 12:16

It's the runner thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. So let's get to race day, because you just have such a great race story. So where do you want to start? Do you want to start before the beginning or at the start? I'll let you lead on that.

Jay: 12:34

Well, the very beginning, you know, when we met, we talked about the 100 miler, the one key thing I should say is that we did the view to test and the hydration and metabolic testing. And the fueling, That, to me was the missing piece of the puzzle. So I needed to figure out where those training zones were correct heart rate is a probably a big thing. And Coach, you might talk about that, as you know, how much calories you're burning. And, and I didn't This was my lack of education. You know, even in all those years of running, I kind of knew it, but you didn't know until somebody could actually explain what those numbers meant and what your body was doing when all that when you're getting all that data. And like we were talking when we first met, I'm an efficient sweater. So I like yeah, let's just say like, you know, in the summer, you know, June, July, August, September, you know, after about an hour running my, my shoes start to squish. So what you taught me in terms of how important it was to hydrate, not even while you're running is just be conscious all the time, was very important. And so that that's the kind of thing a big piece of the puzzle, though, that dialing in that kind of training the months ahead of the 100 miler. I feel like I'm still doing it. But that was a huge part ahead. race day. So if anybody's considering you're getting into something like this, I would highly recommend a test like that or getting on that into that journey of figuring out what those your different thresholds are and, and where your sweat rates are and your your fueling because that's almost as important as the the mileage and the hours you're going to be on your feet. Yeah.

Chris: 14:25

And from my perspective, I think the most useful part of that was slowing you down. Yeah, I mean, like so Jay is being very modest right now. He is a very fast athlete. And you have a lot you have a lot of potential in this sport, which I'm super excited about for you. But yeah, it was it's, it's kind of hard to slow yourself down a little bit.

Jay: 14:50

No, you're spot on and I still have a problem with it in the even in the training runs because like I said, you know, do the marathoners in the Spartan Race. They were all for speed. Or, you know, trying to and this is a whole different beast where Yeah, there's a people that are running these, of course, if you if you look up ultras and there are some super athletes out there that turn out some times that are almost mind boggling. But I'm sure even then they you know, they train at a slower pace, and they hit those races on. And that is an extremely hard thing to like, pull back the reins and be disciplined and on your time and because sometimes you just want to let your body go and you feel great. But you kind of forget, I got, you know, 2030 hours of this to do so you really have to be management of your of your time and your, your effort. So it's it's a whole it's a cool thing. It's like solving a puzzle as you run. Yeah,

Chris: 15:48

I like that. I like that. Yeah. Okay, so are we at the starting line? Yeah.Tell us about that.

Jay: 15:55

Yeah. So the star of the race was, let's see, it was 5am, I think five or 6am. asleep? Well, yeah. And that was one of the intro pieces for sure. Like I was so amped up, you know, some of the friends that knew you're doing it, we're texting you the night before, like encouraging you. And then I think at like, 10 o'clock at night, it hit me like, this is happening, right. And not that I was psyching myself out, but I was getting so amped to like, toe the line and get going that I could not fall asleep. I went to bed at like a little before 10 and I have stared at the clock until I think like 245. And I had to get up at four, like a little little after four. And yeah, that was frustrating. I think I ran through the course in my brain for those, you know, hours laying in bed thinking of, you know, all the things that I packed, you know, going through my kits, my prep, like how the pace was going to work, what were my markers were going to be, you know, all the goals that I had in mind. And so yeah, no, that was that was the start of that journey. So really, in reality, you know, probably didn't I only had two hours of sleep for probably, like 50 hour time stretch from you know, the night prior to that race all the way to post race. So yeah, but you know, I'm sure it'll get better. I think it was just the unknown of the first one,

Chris: 17:27

huh? Yeah. And, you know, if timing is gonna work out at all the night before, it's okay. Yeah, you you've been sleeping. Okay, for for the days leading up to it? If I remember. Right, so, yeah, right.

Jay: 17:40

And, and, you know, it's funny one was hitting the race. And, you know, I asked some people to you met along the way. And I said, you know, did you sleep it that night before night? I never slept good before these. So there was some kind of like, Okay, I'm not abnormal. And this is a thing. Yeah. And others had to drive in further for the race, too. So they had a little bit of other logistical things to work out to. But um,

Chris: 18:03

yeah, I feel like that has that was definitely a pro for you is that you were able to train on the course?

Jay: 18:11

Yeah, definitely. You're right. And, and I probably, you know, maybe that's an advantage or disadvantage, you know, I'm going to do others that will be further away. But, yeah, this being literally in the backyard. The MST is only, you know, a 10 minute ride from my house. And there's multiple places to jump on to. I did have the ability throughout the training, you know, on our long runs that you scheduled for me that I could just jump on and learn different parts of the terrain and kind of feel out what the course and the elevation were going to feel like, throughout the race. So I guess that's a good advantage to have. But I for my first one, I'll take it.

Chris: 18:55

Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we didn't sleep well, the night before. And then you get to the race start.

Jay: 19:03

Yeah, it was it was good, cold morning. So the temps were in the, I think the mid Upper 30s, which is perfect for racing and attempts throughout the day. I think it got its warmest in the mid 60s, for a handful of hours. But yeah, this toeing the line. There weren't many racers. For the 100 miler, they had the 50k portion and the 50 mile portion. So I think in total, there might have been around 50 total ish, but about only half of us were doing 100 miler, and y'all knew this sport. So I don't really know many of the people there and I didn't really get to do the training runs that they prescribed because my kids are playing soccer. So the runs just never really worked out for me to meet up with people. But I quickly Did you know, get to meet some folks at the starting line. And, and one of the funny not funny, I ended up meeting these folks later in the first hour and that was, you know, driving into the course you know, it's dark and you think I just don't Want to hit a deer? Yeah, that's, you know, the deer is running across the road. And I had just come up before I got to the rolling view campground where the start race was, there was a tow truck and I thought, Oh, man, I hope that's not a bunch of runners that are trying to get there. There was no other car. So I was glad there's it didn't appear to be an accident. But I kind of plowed through and got to the, you know, this start area. And some I overheard one of the racers say that they they hit a deer, and they had just gotten pulled out of the ditch. And I was like, Oh, I saw I had seen you. And I was like, I'm glad you're okay. And you know, I said, it's probably inappropriate, but maybe it'll break the ice as like the first thing I thought of was the scene from Tommy Boy, where they hit the deer and they put the deer in the car. And they they cracked up because the they thought they were actually joking about the same thing when it happened. But yeah, it's a small world, though. I ended up meeting them in the first hour of the race. And that that's kind of part of that first part of that journey. Yeah.

Chris: 21:02

Cool. So how did the first half of the race go? Or how do you want to divide it? I should say, yeah, we definitely want to get into the nighttime stuff. Yeah, that's, that's pretty juicy. So

Jay: 21:13

yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, well, the first time I'm back is, we can do that pretty quickly. It was so for this particular race, you know, and if others have done ultras, they can be all different kinds of formats. The goal of this one was to basically to run most of the coastline of falls lake. So to do the mileage, they started a rolling view, and you went kind of Northeast, out, kind of near Redwood, and all that. And so they out and back, I think total was like 28 to 29 miles. And that was the first portion, we'll call it that first instance. And it was good. I mean, you started off in the dark. So your, your, your running lights, probably, I think, Daybreak because the time clock just had gone back the week before. So you got a little bit of a earlier daylight with that. I think Daybreak came around seven ish, so you had about two hours of running at night. The cool thing with this one was, you know, there's a clump of people, of course, in the beginning, so you were running with a lot of folks in small groups, just kind of navigating that portion of the trail. And it started for me that the race started to spread itself out around eight, nine miles after that, and that's about one day break it. So you can kind of tell everybody started to feel their own pace and kind of do their thing when when light started to come. And I did, I joined up firms with some folks from the medmen area in North Carolina. And they had run a whole bunch of ultras, and I got to talking to them. And you know, I had I it was a good time. But it ended up being that these were the same folks that almost hit that or hit that deer in the morning. And so there was this kind of small circle of a world. So I ended up running with them from about 910 miles all the way through that first checkpoint coming back at like mile 2029. And we could have been a blessing in disguise. So that part of the race, it was pretty muddy. From mile nine to about miles, maybe 17. Ish, or 19, about 10 miles, it was fairly muddy. I don't know if anyone remembers we had a really wet February. And it only rained a little bit right before this race. But the lake was super full. And it flooded the course for a lot of time. So it made training on the course difficult but the Army Corps of Engineers was releasing crazy amounts of water off of the animals fixing the course and drying it out. So we were pretty good. But there were some residuals. So that kind of wore your legs out my legs out a little bit. And I I hung with the two folks I met I learned a lot about their experiences and ultras they gave me some great tips about what I was going to experience later in the race and you know, not to ignore nutrition and you know, lots of cool tips. And you know, it was a really nice camaraderie there for you know, a good couple hours. And yeah,

Chris: 24:13

like learning as you go, right? Yeah, really? Yeah,

Jay: 24:17

yeah. And like you said, I kind of did it solo, but I also kind of adopted some crews that didn't know that I was, you're definitely

Chris: 24:25

gonna have to touch on the whole Pacer thing.

Jay: 24:26

Yeah. Yeah. So um, but that was a big chunk of that experience. I mean, with that, that first out and back I when I got back to the, to the checkpoint to do this second out, back to falls down. I was a little bit down on myself. I knew I was kind of behind where I thought I could have been. I was probably an hour off of my pace. I thought that would have been in there around 11 o'clock, and it was almost right at noon. Exactly. So I was like, Okay, well, you know, this is just kind of what it's gonna be. I started the trek out With those same folks, but they had, maybe saw something in me that I didn't see me and they, you know, they said, you know, you, you look like if you've got more than you, you don't stay behind and go enjoy your race and, and do your thing. And I remember coach, you even told me that in the training, when we were talking about the prep, it's easy to kind of fall in line and you have to run your own race. And I think they even said it to me, like don't run our race, you got to go run yours, because they kind of knew that I had a little bit more to give. So I graciously thanked them for all their tips. And yet from mile 29, you know, then this is the next part of the journey. So yeah, if you unless you have some questions, we can definitely jump into, you know, 12pm forward. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Chris: 25:47

there's some good some good stuff coming. Yeah,

Jay: 25:49

yeah. So um, so 12. So now you're talking about pace. So you know, in the back in my mind, I'm thinking an hour off of where I want to be. Part of me thinks I feel pretty good. You know, no blisters, there's no big pain, there's no chafing. Hydration feels good. I got like, the peanut butter and jelly and me. I got some pickle juice in me. Some Gatorade. I'm like fueled up at our 12 bike mile 2930 ready to go. And, you know, I guess that's like you said, there's a racer me, I thought, Okay, well, let's not put the foot on the gas. But I picked it up a little bit. And I hit mile 50. So now I'm so low. So I should probably promise that so from for now, from 29 to mile 73. Pretty much on my own solo. So no crew, all I have is the aid stations and what I'm carrying. And I'll meet my wife a little bit on the way. So just,

Chris: 26:47

I think you should touch on that like, yeah, was this race? Were you able to have a pacer? And at what point were you able to have a pacer? And why did you not get a sir?

Jay: 26:58

Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's okay.

Chris: 27:04

I'm not giving you a hard time people just sometimes. I think you were just, at least in my mind, and you can correct me if I'm right or wrong. You were just like, well, I feel bad for asking somebody. When people would just like bend over backwards to help you out. Hopefully, you at least know that now. I do.

Jay: 27:23

And that was a wake up call for posts. You know, even the remarks I got later, you know, we're pretty emotional because you're like, Man, you know, I didn't, I should have not been so humble, or think that I was putting them out when they probably really could have probably pulled me through some of the times that we sit at night that we'll get into that, you know, sport, you know, keeping involved in games in this podcast, you know, the nighttime does get to be fun and unusual. But um, yeah, the Pacers were allowed after that first out and back. So at mile 29 pacers were allowed the rest of the way. And because of COVID, they want you to keep buying about the aid station stops, and they only wanted person in there, which actually, you know, and there were so they, they had some other folks there. And I think it was great. I mean, people were really understanding of, you know, the, you know, maintaining the race rules and all that, you know, just for people safety. But yeah, so, my whole heart, you know, I never feel like, I want to put someone out. So I didn't want to say, you know, no, please, can you help me do it and all that, and I really should have, because there was a lot of volunteering, you know, people knowing that they offered and I kind of just blew them off and said, No, no, no, I'll be good. And I appreciate it. But you know, don't Don't worry, I know you're busy. You got kids, you got a family, you know, and I don't know what, what, where I'm going to be at what point in this course. So I yeah. And we'll talk a little bit more about that. But, um, but yeah, so mile 2932 73, I was pretty much out there on my own, you know, and in relative terms, and it was kind of a Zen thing to you, you kind of get lost out there. But I put my head down and I turned it out. And I hit 50 miles in 12 hours, which I made up and that was my that was my other goal is that that was something of back of my mind said I can do 100 miles in 24 hours. And that reality hit me in the face a little bit later after from mile 52 says certain things start to happen that are out of your control. Yes, so I was just over the 12 hour mark that mile 50. And, you know, feeling pretty good. But I also realized that 24 hours is probably not gonna It was not going to be a repeat effort to do that twice. So I started to pull back a little bit from there. Yeah. So then I get the 100 a, that Mark I don't know. Okay, well, you know, maintaining I think I was hovering above averaged around 12 to 13 minute mile pace, you know, for the, for the duration there, it was a little slower on that first part, but probably got that average back in into that area. And a bra right around a mile, the 100k areas, I think around when I met my wife, she had met me a bluejay point. So I think that's around where we were might have been a little bit before the 100k mark. But that was good. And that's kind of the first place where I realized Man, I wish I had a crew, and I wish I had a pacer. Because when I saw her, that was a big, like, emotional boost, you know, just to see someone that tell you, you're almost there. And you're, you're doing great, you know, and all that. So that was tough, but to leave behind that. So

Chris: 30:43

that was that was 40 miles, you did more than a marathon pretty much by yourself.

Jay: 30:49

Yeah. And you know, you didn't realize you were doing it until later. So that's the thing, when you look back and you're like, Man, that was probably not a great idea. I mean, not that others have not that others haven't done, you know, I know that there's a lot of folks that do these solo and have to because, you know, they travel out of state or, you know, we're many hours to go do this, and they can't bring people with them. So yeah, I know, it's not uncommon to do these things by yourself. But I think a lot of them if they had the preference would love to have a running buddy. Were pasted with them. Also, at least at least for portions of it. If not, you know, of course, the majority. But, uh, yeah, and that's so when I left her, this is where the logistics and like constantly thinking your way through what was going to be left because you're when I left? My I called her my Sherpa. She's probably not gonna appreciate that she listens to this. But um, yeah, I told her that's

Chris: 31:50

a compliment. Yeah, you know, at least in my mind, it's a compliment.

Jay: 31:54

Yeah, you can't climb Everest without one. No. So no. Yeah. So no, she, you know, she left and, or I left and, and I said, Yeah, I really need, I really want to get to the next checkpoint. Because a lot of my lighting and my light gear, the big gear stop was so I had this thing, I was like, I gotta try to get there. And I didn't, I was slowing down. So I got dark. I had lights still on me. So I had I had packed lights, as you know, emergency backups in case, you know, this has happened. So I wasn't completely running in the dark. But when I left her mind, I could tell like things physically were starting to break down. So you know, around that 100k Mark, which is, you know, that 63 mile ish area, my ankles, were starting to feel a little swollen. While I didn't realize you were feeling that would that was what it was, but as I can't, my shoes are getting tight. And my knees are starting to kind of creep up and you know, hips. So things are starting to do their work. And, and kind of going back real quick, you know, for everyone thinking, you know, when I did my 100k Yeah, that was most that was on the road. And road running, of course, is a lot different as everyone can imagine or would logically understand is a lot, you know, the trails are a lot harder intact. So mileage wise, you know, I had been there before, you know, but this, you know, with the terrain being different, and you kind of tweaking your ankle a little bit as you go or you stumble, all takes a toll. And so even though the distance had been achieved before, it wasn't like this, for me at least. So I think that was all the reflection of just the pounding. And then, you know, that up and down terrain and the elevation gain that you're getting and the elevation loss that you're getting to and just starting to work every bit of your core muscle and your stabilizers and everything that you it's trying to keep you upright is, you know, fired up. And it's been, you know, that is around the 12 hour mark probably do in that area, or you know, actually it's probably 14 ish hours at the 100k. So yeah, you're, you're feeling it at that point. And yeah, so this is where the fun part gets. So now, right? Yeah, now start. So I navigated up to the next checkpoint where which was the backdrop with with some lights, and it was dusk, so it wasn't completely dark yet. And so the unique thing about the course was that you hit this checkpoint. And then you had to go another like two and a half miles past that. And then there was a turnaround and you kind of came back through that same checkpoint. And so it was the return of that checkpoint, where it's pretty much you know, flat out dark now and every year the headlights and there's not many runners anymore, so as you can imagine, there was only 2425 of us, and we've all kind of spread ourselves out so the fast runners are kind of gone. And I think I'm in the middle of the pack looking back around, like the 100k was in the seventh place mark. And so there's not many people around, I ran into a few. And, but you know, it was dark, and it was hard to tell who was coming in who was going at that point. But, uh, so I hit. So now I hit the checkpoint coming back. And this is where one of the big mistakes was made. Before I'm heading back to rolling view. So this was, you know, I did the turn around and came back through. And I, I was I was pretty warm, you know, I was running the temperatures were probably at that point, getting there probably in the maybe 50s at that point. And, you know, because I've been running most of the time or, you know, run walking, I wasn't feeling cold, I didn't think I would need to put layers on. And this is, again, going back to where a crew would have told you, it's going to be cold soon. And you should probably put that hat on that you put in your bag and the long sleeve shirts. And that was the number one mistake that if anything, you know, I packed it for a reason, right? It was there, it was known, I knew that the temperatures are gonna go back in the 30s. And you know, I should have known better to with the breeze coming off the lake, it was going to be cooler. And when you start walking, you're not generating much heat anymore. So that was a, that was something that haunted me for a while. But on that portion, though, of leaving, I had run into another runner. And she ended up being the second placed female on the in the race, which is pretty awesome. And I kind of said I was starting to struggle physically too. And I wasn't really sure how much more I was actually going to be able to run in the dark, let alone by myself. Just physically, my stabilizer muscles were pretty shot and my hip flexors were it was gonna be tough. I kind of just I think it's hard because you swallow some major pride in saying, Well, now I just want to finish and is you're not going to finish like you had hoped for. And it wasn't like a lack of training or anything like that. I think I just wasn't really my body didn't know what it was going to feel, you know, after 70 miles of trail run hounding. Yeah, that counting and I guess you just don't know until you get there. Right. And and I think that's I'm sure that this is a journey for those that are listening that have done ultras, this probably sounds maybe hopefully familiar to you all that. Yeah, I mean, every foot forward was going to be a new experience from there on out. And you know, that, that education is something that I'm going to continue to learn from, and like you and I will kind of put into the training plans to try to, you know, see where we can, you know, get you those extra 30 miles later, which is a lot to say out loud. But, um, but yeah, so I met this other fantastic runner, woman, it was our first ultra as well 100 miler at that. I said, Hey, you know, why don't we do you mind if I just share some lighting and, you know, some camaraderie, I think I just, you know, at that point, I was thinking, I just need to, I'm gonna need to walk a little bit and just kind of figure out my legs and kind of get everything under, you know, situated and figured out and she was she graciously like, allowed me to join her for a while. She had a pacer and a crew. And you know, that so this last 30 miles was I tell you what, that this is really what it's all about in terms of endurance running and, and what ultras are about in the journey, they can you know, that 100 miles I, we always say that that miles is it sounds like a lot, it really is the journey. It's not necessarily. It's just this thing that you go on, and you just want to kind of prove to yourself that you have it in you and you know, so it was it was really cool. She, she had her son with her that did it. And he, we have some similarities. It's funny, you're trading stories and he is in college and he just became an EMT. And I was like, man, I was I was an EMT, I volunteered as a firefighter, and we shared some stories, and I it was awesome to hear some of his and it was great to see, you know, a youth kind of evolves and thinking of that as maybe a potential career. Her husband was running with us. So her son and husband would split. So one would kind of drive their mobile unit, you know, to the checkpoint, and then they would swap out and then the other one would drive up and they had it perfect. It was it was really cool. When I was thinking and watching them I was like, This is what I should have asked for, you know, and but it was really an experience and they were, they were super nice to, you know, allow me to become part of their family for you know, 10 hours of this Race and, and just kind of share their company. And, you know, her husband, I got to know what he was about. He's, he's a Navy captain. And he's in charge of taking care of the submariners. You know, they they're from Virginia. So that was just an amazing story. And, and she was also a nurse, and they had a huge family, and they had a soccer family. So it was, it was really cool. You know, so we're getting on it. And she had fallen just before I had linked up with her. And she was a little hesitant on, you know, would she be able to kind of sustain this, this race to without getting hurt the rest of the way? And then we kind of had this agreement, I said, Well, you know, I'll jog with you, you have your son and your husband, and you know, we'll kind of, you know, we'll just look out for each other. But I said, you know, if you feel it, like take off and go, you know, if you if you want to go. And she said the same to me, if I felt physically, like I was ready to take off to do so. And it was funny, we kind of hour by hour would kind of have that conversation. And we both just didn't, we wanted to enjoy the experience without like having a major injury occur. So we kind of made this, you know, mutual agreement that Yeah, we would kind of hang out with for this the rest of the way. And it was a blessing in disguise to say that I it would have been really hard to be so low out there at night, and not talking yourself out of you know, staying in the race, you know, and so that they were like, you know, the perfect, it will just it was like meant to be Yeah. So it was pretty cool. Let's see what else happened. Lighting lighting was good. I mean, my headlamp burned out about an hour before daybreak. So advice everyone else. I had other lights too. headlamps are pretty important. That's another piece of equipment for the next one, I'll probably upgrade and get like a better battery life, I thought it was going to be pretty good. But you know, you have to factor in potentially eight to 10 hours of meeting that. So I kind of ruled out I forgot the first two hours. I had used it in the beginning and I failed to get that recharged appropriately. But you know, it was we had plenty of other lights. But a good headlamp is very wise to have, especially on the trails and trying to stay with the blazes. And and you know, keeping your sights on, you know, navigating that correctly. Yeah, that was a big one. No. Nutrition, I guess. I don't know if you want to get into that.

Chris: 42:29

Of course. Yeah. So all the chocolate covered raisins, Jay Yeah,

Jay: 42:35

yeah. Yeah. Well, as you can imagine, so this is my night naivety or naive, I'm being naive about nutrition and being cold. So I know coach will probably chime in here. I'm shivering and trying to stay warm. I probably burned a lot more calories and energy. Yeah, trying to do that. And I got really hungry. You know, those last 10 hours there that last 30 hours. 30 miles of this race. It was kind of it was funny, but not because you hit these checkpoints and they have some food and and you start eating things that you just didn't have in your cards. Like I remember jonesing for they had somebody at one of the aid stations had these chocolate covered marshmallows like hell no, they were the best. I can't find them. I've been searching.

Chris: 43:26

It was magic marsh. Yeah,

Jay: 43:29

I swear. I I'm curious if they even existed now. Yeah, I might have been on some weird in some weird place. But they were amazing. Like, I even It was funny, because when I first ate them, I said, Oh, are these gonna be here when I come back? You know, cuz you get the loop back. And he said, I said, Oh, great. And they were and I was like, hey, do you mind if I like take three of these. So I don't even know how many calories they were. But

Chris: 43:56

Joy's when you're out there?

Jay: 43:58

Yeah. But um, that was probably like those in Fig Newtons. You know, I felt it was funny because I was hoarding like, I was like, well, I stuffed my pack with all these things. But, um, but I was I was super hungry. Like, it was kind of amazing how much hungrier I was. And, you know, maybe it was just body being off kilter. You know, like, you're also not used to being up this long. So I think your body's just trying to find maybe as much energy as it can to just stay awake and sustain, you know, and, yeah, looking for any kind of carbs or sugar it can get, and, you know, ramen noodles were amazing. You know, that that hot, warm thing in your belly. You know, they had some boiled potatoes and Kcb is so those were the big items. But yeah, I was pretty shocked. And, you know, again, that's a learning curve. You know, it's how cold I got. That was that could have been dangerous too. You know, if I were by myself that that could have been potentially a bad thing. And the last thing about that, you know, the folks, the lady and her husband and their son that I was running with, they even do it. And, you know, they saw it in me and I kind of refused. Because multiple times it said, you know, we have a spare blanket in the car. You know, it's a soccer blanket, we just keep there in case. And I was like, No, you know, you knew me like, No, I'm okay. Like, it'll be all right. And finally, they're like, Look,take the blanket. Yeah. And they and I, like, I look like, you know, it was hilarious. I had, like, covered over my head and like, Yeah, and I just kind of trudged along with it. And I kept that, you know, for, you know, good three, four hours, and it probably saved me a lot. Because just having that over your head, and it was amazing how much warmth you got right back. So, again, they were frustrating that I was ignorant, and I didn't pay attention that you but that's part of the, you know, don't Yeah, you just don't know. So that was pretty, pretty awesome, though. And I'm glad that I made some friends along the way. And you know, it The cool thing is I've linked up with them through social media. Yeah, following them and encouraging them on their next trail races and let them know where I was thinking about running next to see if they would be there. But also, you know, sharing stories, and yeah, so the, it is a great community. And, you know, now I feel like I've met some folks along the way. And yeah, it's been pretty awesome. So.

Chris: 46:33

So other than the what sounds like having a crew and or pacers to tell you to put your shirt on? It was cold. Is there anything else you think you would have done differently?

Jay: 46:49

Ah, man, that's a great one. You know, I think not so much. I mean, those are the two biggest items. You know, elevation is something that maybe is something that we do in our training, which, spoiler alert, you're already helping me with now with the next the next go, is, um, it's really hard to do if you don't live in the mountains, or you know, where, depending on where you want to do your ultra races is, is really taking a look a hard look at the course that you're going to pick or the terrain you're going to run in. And it's hard to mimic what you're going to be up against. But trying to find a way to get creative with simulating what tired legs are going to feel like until the point where you're not going to get injured. Of course, you don't want to run swollen ankles and knees. But I think that would be another takeaway is I think we did an amazing job prepping for this. But I also asked a lot of you coach to kind of get you ready for it. Because, you know, it was less than 16 weeks that we had to really focus on the 100 miler, you know, after I found the MST 100 to sign up for I think it will I signed up for it in a little bit in December, which wasn't too far after the 100k. Because the other

Chris: 48:08

uncertainties then too.

Jay: 48:09

Yeah, you're right. I

Chris: 48:10

mean, we're like, the vaccine had just come out. And yeah, we didn't know whether races were gonna go off or not. But yeah. ultras are luckily one of those that are you could generally be pretty well socially distanced. Yeah, as you described for 40 miles of your journey.

Jay: 48:28

Yeah. I know, it was, I was super happy to that they were able to get this grace on. Yeah, it was really frustrating for a lot of people, a lot of, you know, a lot of athletes and, you know, people who love these environments, not necessarily even maybe for the competition, but just the camaraderie or that training goal. You know, that you look forward to that to that T shirt into that moment where,

Chris: 48:52

you know, you your buckle. That thing was legit, I'm gonna have to be I'm gonna have to get another picture of it and make sure that I posted that thing was amazing.

Jay: 49:02

Yeah, so yeah, that's a great piece, you know? So all those out there. I mean, if you're not familiar with ultras, you know, the cool metal is a belt buckle, which, you know, I've always kind of giggle that, but it is, um, that is Oh, yeah, that's a piece of hardware. That is really, yeah, something else. It felt really awesome to have that in my hands at the end. It's just, it's unique. Yeah, it's, it's just a great reminder of something that, you know, geez, when I started running in 2001, you know, 100 miler was never there. You know, it was never a thought. So this was just a kind of a cool thing. And, and, you know, the nice thing is no matter you know, people who run my sister runs like just a 5k and all that, you know, they they're amazed and I thought, you know, one thing is, don't get caught up on the mileage, it you know, every, everybody's journey, whatever. distances is equally as difficult or meaningful to them as this was to me. So I encourage everyone to just have fun with it, you know, have fun with running. If you really enjoy it, you know, try to challenge yourself to go further but never think about the mile is just think about, you know, the adventure that you're having doesn't matter how far it is, you know that it sounds kind of hokey and corny, but that's really what I feel like it's all about and you know, most of the running community, you know, is like that, too. So, that's a big piece of advice. I hope for everyone is don't think you have to run more than a marathon and to have fun just enjoy it.

Chris: 50:39

So you're jumping ahead of me?

Jay: 50:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: 50:42

Because we have to do our two to three tips. But we are we get there. What was the what was the weirdest thing that happened to you either in training or on race day? Or maybe even the silliest other than the marshmallow test? That was pretty awesome.

Jay: 50:57

Yeah. Oh, man. sylius Oh, so you put me out there and some night runs before this and and I kind of hope nobody from like the homestead parks and RECs. I know. Yeah, so I saw Yeah, but um, one of the one of those ones your say your senses are really like heightened when you're out there by yourself. You know, whether you're on a road or in the woods, man, there was something that fell in the in one of the creeks out by the entities or Church Road area of homestead is in the dark. I think I might have ran my fastest mile ever. To back to my car. I you know, I'm sure it was nothing but the sound of whatever fell in that Creek did not seem like normal. I don't know what it was. But that that was one of the funnier I like by myself moments that I've had. I mean, there's other ones where, you know, during the training ones, people would see you I did a five hour run and they're like, what do you do? And I was like, yeah, that was a train training run. here so some of those are kind of as quirky things are you know, you know, they're funny, but I think that incident in the in homestead was funny to me, because when I got back to my car, I almost kind of laughed, but I had to look back at my splits and I was like, yeah, that was pretty fast mile.

Chris: 52:20

Yeah, adrenaline is a beautiful thing.

Jay: 52:22

Yeah, it was wild. But you know, I think those I'm sure if people had those things or animals have come up on them the other night runs where you're running your lights, there's some deer on the trails and kind of pick your head up and he's just see these eyeballs looking at you. Yeah, that was pretty wild and crazy and funny. But yeah, those are some of the great moments so that honestly I guess I I really love about trails, there's a you are out there by yourself even on trail runs but some of the things that you just come up on are really special and you have to even stop sometimes and try to take a picture or just stop and you know not worry about your pace this taken your hawks or Eagles to deer to just different things. It's just as a really cool thing and I think along the journey that those are some of the really great moments I like just kind of being out there and just seeing some things that you don't see when you're running on the road. Yeah, pick it okay pass by cars.

Chris: 53:21

And you mentioned your headlamps what were your most essential like the piece or pieces of gear that you absolutely would not do without

Jay: 53:34

Yeah, Camelback of course you know that became my buddy I mean he was that the noon tablets that you recommended the pseudo noon tablets when doesn't know that it's like a like a electrolyte supplement that you can throw in your water and helps with that that like salt balance and you know we talked about that that sweat tests you know, for me hydration was key. So keeping those with me that was a that's probably my number one buddy piece of equipment of course and that's that's probably the easy one and not something you did your marathons with. Right? Right right. So yeah, like training and getting used to wearing that pack and all that you know and carrying the water and just getting used to drinking that much that often you know you that's a whole other piece of the training and that you've had you had to remind me a lot on his techniques of you know, goat taking goats or using your, your your watch you know, when you get buzzed, you know too as also as a reminder to Hey, take a drink, you know when that when your split, your buzzer goes off or your mileage marker goes off on your on your wrist. So, you have to me finding a good Camelback or a good vest for these kinds of races. That that's a key piece and you're the one I ran within this race was not the one I ran with. When I did my my 100k you know, I had to get used to that not a big deal with equipment but you know you do you don't want to run into numerous In a race with new stuff, so by far, and then yeah, of course, like you mentioned, second, and just as important is lighting. Yeah, I had some good lighting, the lighting I had was, when I was doing the nighttime trails, I didn't go on the single track too much. So I didn't really realize how much lighting you would need, you know, because I was running more of the bike and bridle tight trails that are wider, and you know, you have better visibility. And you know, you have that same on the road. So my lighting, I was used to that kind of visibility, that's where I learned a little bit better have a like, little higher lumens, or a little bit better a reach for your lighting on your headlamp, or any other lamp is, is really key when you're kind of on a single track. And not it didn't wasn't a detriment, but that is another key piece of equipment I would, you know, recommend folks think about the test out

Chris: 55:56

No. All right. So I know you already kind of mentioned your, you know, not getting caught up with the mileage is there. Maybe one or two other tidbits to leave people with on if they were to get started or even in your journey. What What would you want to leave them with?

Jay: 56:16

Yeah, so that Yeah, the distance, um, some things to think about is when you're plotting out that course, one thing is any new training, and this is something I had learned a little bit too late in the training as you would read it and you'd see advice on some Facebook groups or, you know, forums that you would read, a lot of people would say, walk the uphills Yeah, listen to that, save your legs. And, of course, you know, which hills you can walk up. But interval training is pretty much what endurance training is. And when you think about interval training, think about running intervals for 24 to 30 hours and having the mental fortitude that when you stop the walk, or the mental strength to say, start running again, because you can easily zone out. Because you're exhausted or, you know, do you just don't want to at that moment, but what I would do is, you know, if I did walk a hill, I would pick a spot, you know, maybe 50 or 100 yards in front of man or feet, whatever it would be a landmark or a tree or route and say, okay, when I hit that route, I'm going to start running again. So you kind of do you, you can walk in and you can walk it as slow as you wanted to get to that room. But um, but that you had to tell yourself got to keep it going. Because, you know, a if you slow down too much, you're gonna get too tight, and you're gonna start to feel the pain set in, but you just, that's just another piece. But also to in that larger part where I was mentioning, like, if you can scope out the course or if you can mimic what you're going to be up against I think I mentioned this to you coach you know, kind of towards the end when we were looking at the at the course and where the aid stations were This is a good way to do it is to mentally chew that course up in your brain is like the mileage don't get stuck on the mileage you can think about when's the next aid station going to come and think about that as the segment of the race you want to achieve it within that segment. Get creative and create your own goal and say okay, well this segment I'm going to slow this down and I might back my pace off a little bit till I get to the state station kind of recover. And then that next segment will be the next piece of the race that you and that's kind of like what it is its own you know, like I don't know I'm the 1980s 90s kid you know with Pac Man you kind of take that little pellet and you to that thing as you as you manipulate that course and yeah, I think that helps because you're out there a while and you kind of you don't want to get stuck on shoot I'm only at mile 30 I have 70 more of these ago because if you start thinking like that it's you're gonna go down a dark rabbit hole where you just have to think I only have three more miles till the next aid station or my next Pacer is going to be meeting me at this crossroad. I can't wait to see them, you know, like so all those things that I'm telling you all now I learned as I went and those are those are some kind of things I I didn't know until I done it. But I hope that you all that'll be a little bit of a those that listen might be a cool way for you to tackle something like this or maybe taking a shot at doing a trail race or an ultra or Hey, shoot, it would even work in any kind of race you think about those different ways to set small goals in the big picture.

Chris: 59:41

That's awesome. Yeah, very, I think that's a great way to end things. What I heard was just keep putting one foot in front of the other and really focusing on the good things.

Jay: 59:53

Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah, when you hit your limits, don't be afraid to ask people you know whether it is a You know, a coach that can help you or a friend or someone like definitely. Yeah, reach out and get advice and test the advice, you know that? Yeah, it's, it's, it was fun. It was a blast. And, you know, I really look forward to the next challenge and you know, seeing what, what I learned and can put to that next one, so it's gonna be fun.

Chris: 1:00:22

Oh, really briefly, what's your next race? You got it?

Jay: 1:00:25

Yeah, so I'm gonna do a 50k as funny air quotes a training race in the sand hills area on Labor Day weekend. But the next kind of big one is going to be Hanging Rock the pilot mountain in on October 2, so anyone's listening do sign up, I'd love to see out there. So this one is a shorter race. It's 50 miles, but the elevation is the same I experienced in the 100 mile for the MST. So I'm going to get almost like twice the punch in half the distance. So yeah, it's going to be so that elevation Yeah, yeah. So that, that'll be the big one. So but then then 2022 Yeah, definitely look forward to hitting that next belt buckle on that 100 miler again, so,

Chris: 1:01:11

yeah. Awesome. Jay, thank you so much for sharing your journey for sharing your experience. I just I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did, because I just, I could sit here and you know, it's like Papa Bear read me a book.

Jay: 1:01:28

Well, no, thank you very much for the opportunity to talk to everyone and good luck to everyone out there and hope to see you along the way. Thank you.