Season 1, Episode 1: Hate Crimes on College Campuses: Students' perspective

Inside Out Outside In  - is framed around the themes of diversity, inclusion, and equity. Our goal is to educate, inform, and build community as well as inspire change.

Today's episode is focused on hate crimes on college campuses, particularly as it relates to racial incidents. In the studio with me today are students Krystina Jackson, Matthew McClain, Vanessa Villar, and Sneha Jayaraj.

They're here to share their experiences attending predominantly white institutions as students of color, particularly when there's a racial incident or a hate crime on campus. I'm curious to know where do they get the strength and fortitude to move forward in these critical times and what meaning do they take from their experiences 

Resources for this episode:
https://www.jbhe.com/2020/01/hate-crimes-on-college-campuses-and-in-higher-education-spaces/

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Coronavirus-Is-Prompting-Alarm/247999

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/05/802904167/watchdog-group-minority-college-graduates-may-pay-higher-interest-rates

https://missoulian.com/news/local/university-of-montana-reacts-reflects-on-social-media-blowback-to/article_44d0b0fe-14c3-589f-8f37-904cf7ce2c29.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/education-department-whistleblower-forced-out-transgender-students_n_5e336a7cc5b611ac94d1fb1d

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-White-Resentment-/247921

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/01/30/boalt-hall-denamed/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/01/31/berkeley-coronavirus-xenophobia/

https://digitaledition.courant.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?pubid=e1bdb9a0-d9e0-4569-842b-54331efd8091&edid=3271c395-b29c-4c50-9b11-c92c9ba52c60

https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/ball-state-students-seek-retirement-of-cop-calling-professor

https://fox61.com/2020/01/29/attorney-general-tong-opens-investigation-into-former-hartford-clay-arsenal-apartments-landlord/

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/slave_play_Hamden/

https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-uconn-racial-slur-lawsuit-20200114-eaigon2lybeu7buuq3gucurwce-story.html

https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-uconn-racial-slur-lawsuit-2

Transcript

Christiana Best:   0:10
Hi, everyone. My name is Cristian a Best, and I'm an assistant professor at the University of Saint Joseph's and this is inside out outside in, a podcast developed for and by colleges and universities, the podcast is framed around the themes of diversity, inclusion and equity. Our goal is to educate, inform and build community as well as inspire change. Today's episode is focused on hate crimes on college campuses, particularly as it relates to racial incidents. In the studio with me today are Krystina Jackson, Matthew McClain, Vanessa Villar, and Snaha Jayaraj They're here to share with me what the experience has been like attending predominantly white institutions as students of color, particularly when there's a racial incident or a hate crime on campus. I'm curious to know, where do they get the strength and fortitude to move forward in these critical times? And what meaning do they take from their experiences? Let's listen to a recording of our conversation about hate crimes and racial incidents on college campuses. Can

Christiana Best:   1:36
you tell me a little bit about yourself, specifically your academic career in background?

Krystina Jackson:   1:42
All right. Um, I'm Krystina Jackson. I'm a second year policy practice student at the UCONN School of Social Work. I'm getting my master's in social work right now. I'm concentrating in international studies, and I'm receiving a human rights certificate as well. Nice. And I have my bachelors in psychology.

Christiana Best:   1:58
Great. Great. Wonderful.

Matt McClain:   2:01
My name is Matt McClain. Uh, I'm currently getting my masses in secondary Matt education to become a math teacher in high school level. My underground. I started a difficult college as an M. O K. Scholar studying business. And then I transferred to UCONN, and I got my degree in math. Thank you.

Vanessa Villar:   2:21
My name is Vanessa Villar, I graduated from the university of Connecticut in 2018 with a bachelor's of communications and a minor in Latino studies. Thank you.

Sneha Jayaraj:   2:31
My name is Sneha Jayara,. I got my undergrad at University of Connecticut in economics and psychology, and I got a master's in public policy at the University of Connecticut.

Christiana Best:   2:40
Thank you. It's great to have you guys here. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to talk about this topic, which is very, very important. We're talking about hate crimes on college campuses today. And, um, when When I think in terms of hate crimes. I'm thinking in terms of racial hate crimes or hate crimes motivated by religion or disability or xenophobia on dhe. Also LGBT Q. Okay. There

Christiana Best:   3:09
spent a number of hate

Christiana Best:   3:10
crimes in colleges now, right? Syracuse University was the last one I heard about through the media. Certainly Yukon has had its own issues. Um, as well as other schools. Um, when that happens, what can you tell me? How did it How do you deal with it? What are your thoughts about it?

Krystina Jackson:   3:31
I feel like when I hear I automatically just I'm not surprised anymore. Like it's just another occurrence that has happened. I guess the only surprising thing is that people still I think that they can do these things and get away with it, I guess. Like the reason thing that happened on the store's campus concurrent with, um, three individuals saying the n word loud outside in front of some dorm rooms, charter old buildings, I believe Onda, um I mean, like, I understand. Like kids get intoxicated in things like that and, you know, do stupid things while they're in college. But I'm not sure if it was attention seeking. I'm not sure. You know, if they truly believe that that was the right thing to do at the moment. But, um, my whole thing about it is the response from the school. Like, how does this school respond to something like that? Um, it almost seems as if that, um, the school waits until it blows up into a bigger situation to say anything when they knew what happened all along. So I know in the stores campus, they waited until police were involved. They wouldn't until end of lee. C. P. Came on the campus to do some sort of community dialogue. And then, um, the president sent a message out saying that this was unacceptable. And to me, that's more of a political response and not an emotional response, which is what students want to see.

Christiana Best:   4:54
Thank you. Thank you. Um, so for you, the biggest issue is the administrator's response and having them respond timely and genuinely, and in a way, that bring about some form of change,

Krystina Jackson:   5:10
right? And something that seems genuine. Not, um, like when I say political. I mean, like, they're waiting for the most opportune time to speak in a strategic way. and I think students, especially students of color, want to see that they have a zero tolerance when it comes to these things,

Matt McClain:   5:28
All right, I think that I had on that. They not only wait for the most opportune time, they will wait to see if it will fade out first before there is even an opportunity at all. My biggest problem. When I was at UConn, there were so many instances where you're getting e mails from administrators or the president of the school, and they're saying we don't tolerate this blah, blah, blah And then they'll host one community conversation where it's already all the students who are already having these conversations. They give. They give us a space that give whoever wants me involved this space They say, Talk about it, They'll bring police there so they're already making it confrontational. You'll have other students, other white students in particular who will come in and become confrontational, and then it's over from that, and then that's like the end of the conversation until something else happens and that's really unacceptable. It's really mind boggling, but it's like like Christina has that it's so very political and that's all. That they're ever going to make it

Sneha Jayaraj:   6:39
right. And to add on to that, um, what you're saying about, is it just the administration is the administration. Plus it's the students as well themselves. Um um, the students who are coming from schools where it's also unacceptable, you is seen as susceptible. And so they keep doing stuff like that. I'm not surprised at all with how these students are acting, because all the way kids in my school said the N word, you know, And it was a white suburb, majority Italian, Um, and so I'm not surprised at all with these actions because they were let go in high school, middle school and elementary school, someone they go to a predominantly white institution, they're still seen as like, Oh, this is fine to do it over here too, Um, and just needs to be stopped right from the beginning.

Christiana Best:   7:31
So you're saying that while we're hearing about it in the second, that postsecondary institution this goes on in elementary and high school in genetic

Sneha Jayaraj:   7:41
definitely 100% C

Krystina Jackson:   7:43
s. Wow. Yeah. I can't even, um, add to that, like just from my own personal story. It was third grade when I had. I mean, it probably wasn't my first incident with racism, but the 1st 1 that I remember and I remember, like how all like little Children have crushes on each other. I had a crush on this white boy in my classroom, and he stood up in front of the whole class and said, I don't like Christina because she's black and I was like, my first leg microaggression, I guess that I, like, truly remember on DDE that just goes to show that like kids as young as that third grade are experiencing racism are commiting racist acts. Even if they don't know what they're doing. They may be learning at home and bring it to school with, um

Christiana Best:   8:31
right. Wow, thank you for sharing that. Yeah,

Vanessa Villar:   8:37
and I think it's like just that on So what you're saying? I think it's shameful to think that in college that is their only time. They're kind of being addressed to like if someone had, um like, in your instance made the explanation at at 1/3 grade age, then you would think that by the time they come to university campus they wouldn't be you know, still doing those micro aggressions Still saying, you know, things that are not right in terms of race? Um, yeah, I think in that

Krystina Jackson:   9:08
instance is, Well, like I come from a Caribbean background, my parents are very, very Jamaican. And so they've always instilled in me to be proud of my blackness. And, um, to understand that you know why people are always going to understand you, and they're not always going to treat you the way you want to be treated. And in that instance, in third grade I stood up and I said, That

Christiana Best:   9:30
is

Vanessa Villar:   9:30
wrong and you need to tell his parents

Krystina Jackson:   9:33
and I was upset about it. And the teacher did call both of our parents and explain what happened. So it did end up being resolved. I guess as much as you could say, it could be resolved. Um, but yeah, I don't If it was another black child, though, that didn't really understand the situation that was going on. It might have turned out differently,

Christiana Best:   9:53
right? Yes, Yes. I'm amazed that it's happening at such a young age, you know, and that it is happening so frequently outside of and prior to post secondary.

Matt McClain:   10:09
I feel a lot of it is because students do not identify with blackness. So through cultural responses and just through media, so many kids feel comfortable saying the n word or other micro aggressions. And, uh, I try so hard to just combat what they're saying, and I'm one of the very few who will do so. I'm also a part of the African American Club. We have a campaign where we're trying to get students to stop saying the n word. But it is so exhausting because you could literally say, like, you should not be saying that every five minutes they'll say it to their teachers will say it to the other Students will just say out loud because they want to. They feel comfortable doing so. It's just normal language for them now.

Krystina Jackson:   10:58
And because of

Sneha Jayaraj:   10:59
all colors,

Matt McClain:   10:59
all comments this is so hard to regulate. And you can imagine how many times you here in one day, and that's exhausting.

Christiana Best:   11:09
Wow, you know, you said something that made me think. And I gonna ask this question of all of you when you hear it. It could be exhausting. Um, whether it's directed at you or someone else or just collectively. You experience this Ouch. When somebody either used in word or have a micro aggression against you, Right? And so how do you deal with that? How do you take care of yourself?

Matt McClain:   11:39
I don't know. Sometimes you just gotta decompress when you get home. Uh, take your mind off it if you really think about it. Especially from a social work perspective. Social justice never stopped. So if you really if you really think I'm on it, you can never take a break. But realistically, when you're by yourself or within the confines of people who are comfortable with sometimes just have to take a deep breath and think about something else or act on something else besides work all day. Yeah.

Krystina Jackson:   12:11
Yeah. I definitely pick and choose my battles. And there's times where I'm just like you. No, no, I'm not even gonna address that. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna put myself out there because that's energy that I have to now to spend into the universe that I don't want to at the moment cause I'm saving it for later from myself. And so Yeah, I feel like that is self care. To me, self care isn't always, um, just like, I don't know, going home and painting my nails. It could be, but like, at the same time and is also saying no.

Christiana Best:   12:41
All right, so you're aware of the setting you're aware of maybe possibly losing control either by taking in the impact of the pain as a result of that act. Um and so you just kind of hold it. I'm gonna pause. Hold it.

Vanessa Villar:   13:00
I agree. I feel like sometimes if you don't feel like it can be a learning opportunity, then you shouldn't stress yourself out or put so much pressure on yourself to teach someone something that she ate. They should already know. Like an intimate Isn't the role of the oppressed to do that? Yeah. Like like you said, I think pick and choose your battles. Like if I feel like it's not the right opportunity for me to, you know, have ah fruitful and thoughtful conversation or, you know, ah, calm discussion. And then I won't even engage in it, you know, raise.

Christiana Best:   13:34
It's not the role of the oppressed to teach the oppressor, right? And when you confront it. It's There's always a teaching aspect to it. And that's work. You know, you not only have to control your anger control your pain are your trauma. But you also have to teach. Right? Um, do you get tired of that?

Sneha Jayaraj:   13:57
Yes. Yeah, And I

Vanessa Villar:   13:59
feel like it goes into

Krystina Jackson:   14:00
a bigger conversation about Ally ship, which I had on my campus recently. We had a community dialogue around Ally ship and just talking more about how being an ally doesn't just mean that you sit in the back and listen all the time. Sometimes being an ally is like being on the front line so that people who are oppressed don't have to constantly to spend their energy fighting oppressors.

Christiana Best:   14:22
Good point. Good point. When

Vanessa Villar:   14:25
I was an underground, um, I ran Aysel multicultural diversity senator under with the undergraduate student government. And I ran in opposition with the intention of, um kind of putting myself in a space where I knew I wasn't the norm. And, you know, I had the full intention of just being the voice of the people that were underrepresented. And of course, I've got what is what I was doing. But like you said, It gets so tiring. And I was in that space where no one looked like me. No one I can understand what you know, things that I would go through our things, that people that are in my surrounding areas go through. And as much as I would say this is something that you know we're doing, this is something that we feel, and as much as I would repetitive Lee would do that if little overwhelmed and overwhelming to keep saying the same things. And I felt like I was talking in that one was listening. Um, and by my senior year, I was like, Yeah, I've really had enough. I had three years of putting myself in the in the space where I felt uncomfortable and I didn't feel like it was the right space for me. As much as I I cared about the position. And much as I cared about having the opportunity to me, it felt like so much work and so much exhausting work that I decided to leave, right? No.

Christiana Best:   15:54
Yeah, very important. It's almost like the work has to be done. We need to have somebody do it or some groups do it, but it's so exhausting that in doing it,

Christiana Best:   16:06
you just, you know, in terms of survival, you just sometimes have to let it go. All right. You know, one of

Christiana Best:   16:36
the things I was thinking of when I heard some of what you said was How do you talk about this in the classroom? Like, Have you experienced issues of micro aggression or unintentional racism in the classroom, among your peers, from a teacher from a professor? Is that part of your experience? And if so, how do you address that? And if someone listening, who is thinking of going to college one day? Um, how do you help them navigate those? You know, water's really?

Sneha Jayaraj:   17:13
Ah, that question was actually asked, took a social anthropology class that you can and the professor asked The class it was 100 people was a big classroom Electra hole. Ah, do you think sexism is a problem in today's climate and everyone raised their hands? Um, then she asked, Do you think race is a problem in like five people raised their hands? Yeah, and it's because people are uncomfortable, like you were saying before, with the whole conversation around a race like everyone knows it's a problem, but they don't want to address it. And they kind of just I kind of want to quietly put it under the rug. Um, And so the question that you asked about having it being a discussion in universities, I think is also part of the teacher, the professor's administration, to constantly talk about race and everything that they do like in their research, make sure that they have race and every single part of data sets. Um, make sure that they say in the beginning, it class that when they're going through the syllabus, Uh, they do have, like, a portion for, ah equity, but they don't really go that deep into it, Ray. And so make sure that's in every single, um, thing that they're talking about, because race is part of every single thing in society.

Christiana Best:   18:35
Yeah, thank you for that.

Vanessa Villar:   18:38
I feel like

Krystina Jackson:   18:38
going off of that. Um, if professors don't do that, it falls on the few students of color that are actually there and like myself, like I'm in a predominately white institution and I'm going to talk about race. Race is embedded in all of the problems that exists that we talk about in the classroom. And then when I do that, I'm labeled as this pro black, anti white girl. I don't know, um radical. Yeah, radical thing. Which I don't even think it's bad where, um, I get labeled like that all the time, and I just think people don't understand the amount of, um, just I guess this goes back to the amount of energy that you have to do spend again in the classroom to feel the need to be validated and affirmed and your experiences, but then also having to, like, have the burden to teach everyone, like teach all the students in the class and the Professor because the professor is not doing their job. And I recently had an experience with a supervisor for my field place man. So we have to do, um, like, internships for a program. And, um, I was talking to her about white institutions and, um, just, you know, things I've heard, um, are read about them or things I feel about them on. And she felt the need to say that I was angry and she repeated it many times She's like, You're an angry person, you're an angry person, she said. I don't know how you'll fit into society with your views or in this work. I had kind of just walked out of my internship on Spot Center, An email. I said, I need to switch my internship immediately. Um, goodbye. And so that's not the first time something like that has happened. But I need to, like, go home after that and, like, reassure myself that, you know, you did not do anything wrong because

Vanessa Villar:   20:28
racism will have you feeling

Krystina Jackson:   20:29
like you are in the wrong or what you're saying is not really true or what you experience didn't really happen. And that's really not the case.

Christiana Best:   20:37
Yeah. Wow, that's an extraordinary example. Thank you for sharing that. Wow. And that also talks about well being right, but also what happens when someone in authority projects their perspective on to you in a very negative way. You're initially coming into the profession. This person is revered. They have a lot of power. Um, and you are just beginning your profession. So do you. Stay. Take what is being said and turn yourself inside out to try to fix yourself or do you walk away? And it sounded like you felt empowered and you knew that you needed to step away at that woman. So I want to just say thank you for that, because it really speaks to, um, you know, people perpetuating institutional racism but also seeing a different perspective as one that is negative, Um, and trying to, you know, crush your ego and startle you at the very beginning.

Krystina Jackson:   21:47
No, I'm glad you said that because I did turn to other professors and other faculty at the school for advice. And the only advice they gave me was to keep my head down and keep going, especially the faculty of color. And that didn't resonate with me. I don't know if it's just like my Jamaican unruly spirit inside me, but yeah, it just it didn't make sense to me. First of all, I'm paying for this education, and this woman had an obligation to teach me certain things. And if I'm not able to speak freely, or if she's not ableto welcome diversity of thought in her presence, then she's not someone I want to learn from.

Christiana Best:   22:26
All right, All right. Wow. Now What they said is something we've done historically. You know, we put blinders on. We know we have to jump through some huddles, and so we just do it and keep it going so that we can get through it. The thing is, by doing that, we're not helping those behind us and that we're hurting ourselves as well. Right? Um so it takes courage to do what you did, and I want to commend you for that. Thank you. Yeah,

Matt McClain:   22:57
definitely. I think to just add on that it's to me. It's all about being unapologetic. And I really learned this my freshman year when I was em. Okay, scholar, because that was around the time where the black lives matter movement was really kind of near its peak, not saying that it's fizzled out or anything like that. But just in the news, in the media, all over the world. And that's really when I started protesting and just from the different class classroom settings that I was in because of my program and just having the experience of protest ng I learned really two things to be ah, prophetic leader or a foot soldier of any kind in a movement yet the number one on yourself with information. Because knowledge is power, that's it. Sounds cliche. But Israel. There's nothing more powerful than knowledge because, especially when you're in common a confrontational conversation when they run out of something to say they start attacking you. And that's when you know, like, where are we here? You know? I mean, I'm I'm above you in the conversation just because you no longer want to have this conversation. And I think the other thing is to recognize that I didn't say or anybody in this room didn't say something based on the feelings of somebody else because they didn't want to hear it. I think that's like, so absurd, ridiculous and just self centered To think that someone else shouldn't be able to speak just because you'll be offended. Although it doesn't even affect you at all, it effects obviously, the person saying it affects all the people in their lives. So everything that they said it has intention and it has meaning and has validation. And I think by being unapologetic, it's like you defined yourself as like I said what I said and that's it, because if you don't say, then nobody else will. And if nobody else is gonna advocate for you, then what's gonna happen? Nothing.

Christiana Best:   25:07
All right. So for students who are thinking of going to college and they're hearing in the media about these hate crimes of parents that are sending their Children to colleges and white institutions and they are concerned about sending their Children to these institutions, what do you say to them? What do you say to the parents, Would you say to the students,

Matt McClain:   25:29
Goto hbcu? That's a tough question.

Vanessa Villar:   25:36
I feel like if I had to do it all over again,

Krystina Jackson:   25:38
I probably would have went to an HBCU. But if I did go to an HBCU, I also wouldn't know what black students and PW eyes they're going through. And that is a unique experience. So

Christiana Best:   25:53
you want to tell the audience with PW eyes?

Krystina Jackson:   25:56
Oh, predominately white institution.

Christiana Best:   25:57
Okay,

Sneha Jayaraj:   25:59
well, I guess I read this paper, actually, um, about how a lot of college admission people are actually not taking people who have, um, background in black activism. So there's that going on already. Um, in just the college admission, folks are also, you know, being very anti black. Ah, what I would tell students who are incoming into thes PW by institutions would be to join organizations. There's always a lot of community groups eso I joined when I first started. You can I joined UNESCO. Ah, and that was an organization that is really focused on human rights. Um and so, uh, naturally, there was majority black and brown people in there Funny. And so

Christiana Best:   26:54
even just

Sneha Jayaraj:   26:55
having people who were, like, super nice to me at you can I

Christiana Best:   26:58
was, like, really surprised. It's always like,

Sneha Jayaraj:   27:01
Okay, so that was, like, my transition in, Um So because I surround myself a majority black and brown folks. So it was I kind of like a naturally did that. And even when I was young, my best friend was Pakistani, Lebanese, and so I'd actually subconsciously do that re, um, So do that. And don't try conforming with whiteness, cause you're just gonna you're gonna harm yourself and you're gonna be come and secure You're gonna like, you know, I kind of hate yourself when you're turning yourself with white folks, right? Um and yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna Yeah, so yeah, I was to say so

Christiana Best:   27:41
tell me a little

Christiana Best:   27:41
bit more about that. Do you believe that all white folks are harmful or you know, how would that? How does that look? You?

Sneha Jayaraj:   27:52
Um, no, I wouldn't say that All white folks are harmful. But I would say, Ah, you can empower yourself, everyone. You can empower yourself by having close friends that are, um, brown and black because yeah, because, uh, I feel like in society, we're already doing a lot of, um, anti black sort of environment around us. And so when you surround yourself kind of with people who understand your environment Ah, then you think I guess I see more people thriving with that rather than

Christiana Best:   28:37
I see,

Sneha Jayaraj:   28:38
um, folks who are starting themselves with white folks, but not not, uh, they're not harming. But I'm saying that in this society, everyone is a little anti black until they unlearn it.

Christiana Best:   28:58
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah,

Christiana Best:   29:01
I feel like, um so I want

Vanessa Villar:   29:04
So I grew up in our fruit and I all my life, I've only known Latino and black people like I can probably name on my hand, like five like white people that I knew growing up. And so when I went to UConn like, it was obviously, uh, an eye opener being the minority in the case. And and so I would say, Like Snow said, like there are communities and there are groups where I surrounded myself with people who are like me and I was actively involved in the cultural centers. Um, I worked at the Puerto Rican Latin American Cultural Center and, you know, I met people that you identified it in somewhat their experiences like me. And So, um, and I feel like going to Yukon gave me the opportunity to see that the world isn't just like black and Brown, you know, And I wouldn't have known that because I've raised my whole life in Harford. Um, and I think it gave me that kind of navigating me in the way that I could, um, get into spaces where it's not what I'm not familial, you know? So, like, I don't think I would ever I would've ever done that had I not gone to a predominately way institution. Um, and that's just me. And I feel like, you know, and I hate when people or I hate that people do feel so uncomfortable in spaces like it. I mean, I myself, I can't say that I have never had, like, walking into a room and not felt uncomfortable when I'm them of the minority. But then I also feel empowered. And I also feel strong that I am the only person in that room and that I'm, you know, like despite, um me being a little different or you know, me not being of the same race I can. And I do have all the same qualities. Um, professionally. Occasionally, you know, there's an empowering piece in, but it is hurtful that people feel so strongly that there that it isn't, you know when I understand that,

Christiana Best:   31:12
right? So for you, it was a challenge to transition from ah, very familiar setting where it was primarily black and brown people, Latino and African Americans, for the most part, and to a white institution where the majority of people all right, But yet that challenge, you were able to navigate it in a way that has prepared you. It sounds like for the world. And when you find yourself in that situation where you are literally the minority, you feel like I can. I can manage this. I could navigate this. I I could do this. Right.

Christiana Best:   31:55
Okay. Okay. Yeah. There's two sides to different stories, right? Eso

Christiana Best:   32:26
in one hand, it feels secure and affirming to be with people who are like you who look like you who understand you, um, but understanding that there are spaces where that's not what's going to happen. And you have to be able to navigate that space balances. Yeah, but I think you were saying, don't lose yourself by going into a white space and not having an affirming, um, environment for yourself, right? So

Krystina Jackson:   32:59
difficult. Well, to your point about, like, if I think your question was is all white people harmful, right. I think that all white people have the potential to be harmful. And I think that if there is a white person out there that believes that they're not or they don't have the potential to be harmful, that is alarming. And that's probably the most harmful person out there. And so, um, yeah, for me. Um, I grew up as an athlete before I even came into, like, social justice stuff. Um, I played soccer all my life and in the U. S. For girls, at least it's predominately white sport. And so I was that token black girl on the team growing up, and I did experience a lot with them, and I did go through great lengths to try to fit in with, um, like to the point of even like harming my hair, because thinking that straight hair was something I needed to have, um So, yeah, I feel like when you do hang around people or white spaces as a person of color, um, or just a marginalized identity, that you feel the need to change yourself to fit into some type of normalcy that you feel that you don't have. And it wasn't until, um, honestly, my master's program and getting more into social justice issues that I started to realize how important Ah, black space waas and a ah, whole black space that was just for black people. I had black friends growing up that we're like mostly West India, and they didn't play sports or anything, and that kept me grounded. But, um, as I like reached each higher level in soccer, it was the more white people I was around and, um, I started to lose myself, I think. And so I think it's important as like, a personal color going into these predominately white institutions to know that this place was not created for us things. Place was created by us, but not for us. And so with that being said like, don't be afraid to claim a space for yourself and the other people that look like you and have the same identity as you. And don't be afraid to say hell no when people are like that's anti white or or that's discriminatory because it's not

Christiana Best:   35:29
wow, very powerful, creating a space. I

Christiana Best:   35:33
hear that

Christiana Best:   35:34
a lot about being in white spaces and having to minimize who you are. Your identity, whether it's sperm in your hair, straightening your hair or for some people, it's lightning, their skin or dressing a certain way. Or for those of us who are immigrants, it might be changing our accents or the way we speak right, um, so that we will be approved by the dominant culture and we would fit in and we would assimilate. And there's a lot of push for that because, you know, it's easier to accept someone who represents while they may be part of the minority group, you know, And I mean that in terms of numerical, um, they're not. They're more acceptable if they sound like, look like as close as possible to the dominant group. Right? So there's a lot of messages about about how to change that, and we get it from my own people, too, don't we?

Matt McClain:   36:39
Yeah, that's definitely historical, though When you're in a obviously a system of oppression, you have to survive first. Yeah, so a lot of times, often times when you're getting that energy from people of our own identities or backgrounds and they are, let's say, um, conforming, tow the system of oppression. That's because they're just trying to survive. So I will always respect their opinion. However, I just can't live by that same ideology,

Christiana Best:   37:13
right? Right now,

Christiana Best:   37:16
how do

Christiana Best:   37:16
you deal with people who cannot hear your opinion? Because it's not one that conforms with the dominant culture, right? The the messages get along, you know, go along and get along, right? Lack of a better word. But so

Christiana Best:   37:37
how do you How do you do? How do you

Christiana Best:   37:38
stay true to your identity in a in an environment that says you shouldn't that gives you all kinds of messages. Um, and

Christiana Best:   37:48
how do you

Christiana Best:   37:49
balance, um, people either accusing you of being rebellious or being the angry black woman? How do you do that? What's that like?

Matt McClain:   38:02
Honestly, I think there's a very interesting question, because I feel and this is my and my experience off. This might not be free, but I feel like this brings up a generational conversation more so than probably anything else, because throughout our entire lives through our entire childhood, we are taught to go above and beyond what our parents did right. However, when you get to that position where you may, or you may be more knowledgeable than them or you just may have more interest and just a little bit bolder than they were, you get that resistance so it's all about like you have to control your space as much as you possibly can, and this is very difficult to do. Expressing. We tell my family because you do not always get to control how often you see your family, especially if you still live at home or you just interact with them often. Of course, you don't want to lose the people you love. But you also have to understand, like, Okay, now, this is going to be either traumatic or just difficult for me to endure. So I have to find a way to step away and find my space, find my piece and find my people. Just because they're family or you've always known them doesn't mean they had to be your people for every aspect of your life. So I think it's important to be able to separate yourself.

Christiana Best:   39:27
So you also have to navigate the space in your familiar group. The in your familiar community. Yeah. You. So it's a

Christiana Best:   39:35
lot of navigation going on. Absolutely. Like

Matt McClain:   39:38
code switching

Christiana Best:   39:40
the coats, your code switch on campus in the

Christiana Best:   39:44
classroom. You have to do that. Sure.

Christiana Best:   39:52
Wow.

Krystina Jackson:   39:53
No, I would say that, um I think it goes back to being unapologetic again and just understanding. Like, I tell myself all the time that you know, I'm living my ancestors wildest dreams. And just for that, like I need to say whatever I need to say that is on my mind and do whatever I need to do because they obviously did not have the chance to do so. And so for that, that is why I keep my mom open. And I say what I need to say,

Christiana Best:   40:23
Right, So that's very interesting. And I'm going to ask the question of all of you. What, in your past, whether it's ancestral or from a different country or a parent or grand parents Who in your past would you say have been most influential to you on Dhe has helped you both personally and career wise, academically, in terms of your identity. And, you know, you're solid nous around who you are,

Sneha Jayaraj:   41:00
huh? Helplessly. Definitely. My my mom, um, she would always tell me growing up that I'm not America like your Indian, your Indian. Um, I am glad

Christiana Best:   41:17
you told me

Sneha Jayaraj:   41:18
that because I love being Indian. Um, I embrace that I'm Indian. American, right hyphen. Ah, and I was always known. I was like that weird Indian girl growing up Great. Um, but I still love that about myself because

Christiana Best:   41:36
people were

Sneha Jayaraj:   41:36
definitely bullying me for sure. They're like these white kids who would ask me what world I'm from right every day. Um and like by still truly still loved being Indian rate, because that's like something I bring in, All right? And it's a collectivist society, right? We're living in an individualistic society right now in America, especially New England. Um, and I feel like one thing that really keeps me going is my collectivist background. Because I like community. I like I like the we not the me. Right, Um, and that keeps me going. So if she was really influential in my life and still is a

Christiana Best:   42:16
great great, wonderful thank you for sharing that. Thank you, Mom. Great.

Vanessa Villar:   42:29
I would say, um maybe a mix between my mom and my cousin. Um, so my mom didn't have much of the education. She did. Have she started, um, what would be postsecondary education in Peru, But, um, that those degrees don't come over here. So, um, she knows the importance of education and always, like, pushed me too. Um, you know, obviously pursue my studies and pursue what I what I want to dio but doesn't have the experience yourself. Especially being from a different country. Being from Peru never was really able to help me navigate all appoint a college resumes or any of that. However, one of my older cousins, who I would say it's I still look up to. She, um she did com come Peru, at the age of 17 enrolled in community college, was able to transfer Thio refusing Josephs and got her master's degree from there. And I always look up to the path A She did took her so long, you know, to not only go to community college, but then how will take E s l class is and community. Um, but she finished with her master's degree. And I still, um I would say that that's one of my biggest motivating factors. Um, is to see, like, someone actually being able to do it. Of course. My mom pushed me, and she's like, You could do everything you want to D'oh. But, you know, unfortunately, she doesn't didn't have the opportunity to do it.

Christiana Best:   44:05
All right, All right. Great. So, having those two ladies in your life have been instrumental in getting you through some of the difficulties. Great. Thanks.

Matt McClain:   44:16
Okay. So, um, I feel like this conversation is a lot more complex for me. Okay, So I'm interracial and my Mom is white and my dad is us American black. And to be honest, growing up there was, there just wasn't enough conversation about race. The only conversation that I can recall off the top of my head about race was how it could benefit me or how it could make me successful navigating throughout this world and, I mean as an interracial blackmail. I'm always a token in every situation that I'm in, especially around white people. So, like they told me how to navigate, I am really teach me how to navigate that. But they commented on that however just learning about myself identity as a person of color, as a black person, as a person from the African diaspora, that really was all me all self reflection. And then when I went to the M. O K program Ah, at the M. Okay, scholar, I study Martin that the king, his teachings, his practices, his lecturers, his speeches, his sermons and I also went to, um on a civil rights tour in Alabama in Georgia and my daddy from my daddy family from Alabama. So Alabama is like home from me. That's as far as my lineage goes for the African diaspora, Unfortunately. So when I went there, it was like a whole, like I went to the Mecca. Basically, it really changed my whole life for real. And I just don't know. I embrace my blackness after that moment, and I have not looked back since. So and I'm not I'm not tryingto talk down Mom and Dad. Have you ever listened to

Christiana Best:   46:05
you? I

Matt McClain:   46:07
can never put into words which are taught me. However I feel when it comes in myself identity as a black person, it was me.

Christiana Best:   46:16
Okay. Okay. Thank you. It was you with the environment that they provided for you and the opportunities they provided for you. But are so the M o k program right community in Alabama Absolutely good staying here.

Krystina Jackson:   46:37
So for me, I feel like my person would be my grandma on my dad's side. Um, I feel like she's a lot like me, or I'm a lot like her in the sense of like she knew at a young age that she needed to do more with her life and she don't know how she was gonna get there, but she was gonna do it somehow. And after she had my dad in Jamaica, she left to go to England to find work. And both my grandma's actually did that. And what got them over here was domestic work. And, um, like for her to get through that because, like, domestic work is not easy. Like she was raising other people's kids that, you know, she still has their pictures in her house right now. And I just look at her as being so strong and and so unapologetic about what she needed for herself. And, you know, no man was gonna take that away from her. Not even the confines of a country was gonna take that away from her, in which I respect so much. Um, and I just grew up with her telling me all the time that, you know, just get that paper. Just get that paper and the way to tell you nothing. So that was my my goal. Just getting that degree on dhe. I know that, like when she sees me graduate, my master's it's gonna be like, the ultimate thing for her, like Like it's gonna be almost like everything she's ever been through was all worth it. and, you know, like that's that's literally what keeps me go. Just let just knowing that she went from country to country Thio to come here and find a property, you know, get her money in order and raise her kids by herself. Four of them on dhe, you know, because she did that. I'm able to do all the things I can do today,

Christiana Best:   48:18
all right? She sounds really, you know, fabulous. Yeah, she was like a pioneer.

Vanessa Villar:   48:26
She she was like

Krystina Jackson:   48:27
a pioneer. But at the same time, she's just this little old Jamaican woman that you know,

Christiana Best:   48:31
just stays in

Krystina Jackson:   48:32
her house and, you know, cooks our food and cleans and doesn't She needs to do and she homes all day. She's so cute. But at the same time, she has so much might and someone strength inside

Christiana Best:   48:46
of her, And you

Krystina Jackson:   48:47
could see

Christiana Best:   48:47
that Absolutely s. So I just want to

Christiana Best:   49:17
ask the question because you raise something for me. Um, the issue of talking about race in the in your home, you know, Was that ever an issue? Did it ever come up? You said it didn't. But having parents who are both black and white. Um, did it come up in an unintentional way in anyway? I mean, what was it like to understand who you are as being black Indian, You know, interracial Latina. What is it about your child? Did anything happen in your childhood that was, um, motivated by a parent or some incident that helped you understand this Painful or not,

Matt McClain:   50:06
So I can elaborate on Sorry. So if I were to backtrack it the best way that I can explain it is so I'm a teacher's home. He's teaching language. So in a school, we have was called the curriculum, which is like the regular content and then the hitting curriculum.

Christiana Best:   50:22
So the formal and informal

Matt McClain:   50:24
Exactly. So I feel like I got definitely a spicy splash of the hitting curriculum, especially from my dad. My dad's black, he's unapologetically black and, like, I don't know what I really If you were to ask my mom right now, which parent? I'm more like she would say him just because, like, I just embraced who he was so much so did my twin brother. And like, just threw that we definitely we embrace our blackness, just threw him being black and being who he waas, however, and, like I remember, he used to have conversations with us about like if we were to encounter police or blah, blah, blah. But that's really where the conversation ended right then and there. If you even attempted to have a conversation about racism, especially amongst white people who are in our family or and people relative in relative proximity to us dark comedies and got shot down, it didn't need to be hired. It was concluded for me. So, like that was that on that and I don't know, It says it's a very complex situation when you're in it interracial family or couple or relationship, however you want. Call it because many times an interracial relationships, and this is my problem with them as a whole. The black person is taken away from the black space and have to assimilate toe whiteness. So there wasn't really going to be a time where we was gonna live like my dad had to work up in the world, and he wasn't going to go back. So working up in the world needs you going to live in a white, white on white neighborhood where affluent people live so uses he had to conform to that. I can never explain the things that he may have just had the silence or deal with however he dealt with. I can only explain how I did or how he taught me to do it. And it just it wasn't as expressive as I reflect on it now, as I would have liked it to

Christiana Best:   52:42
be okay. And so I just like to plan to see it with you in terms of when you have your own Children. If you do have your own Children, what would that look like as we go around the room? Think about that. Definitely. Yeah.

Sneha Jayaraj:   53:02
So, um so when I was young, I remember my, um, dad saying both my parents would always talk about race. My dad still talks Maurice, like every single day. And, um but there's also a difference and shade like skin color. My mom is like skin, and my dad is darker skin. And that makes a difference in how they talk about. And that's when I really started realizing. Like, skin color makes a huge difference in your conversations. So my dad is always so when I was young, they would say, um, you can't trust Whitey And then I would ask, like little self, like 10. My 10 year old smells like, Oh, like, why not? And, um, then they wouldn't elaborate. They were doing just like, you'll see, you know, on. And, um, my dad's been called a black guy before and stuff like I sees more darker skinned grape. I am. So he's really faced in his work environments and the repercussions of that and everything as well. Um, and so yeah, that's still that's a conversation that happens. It happened in my house, in my home. Ah, and I have a brother. He's 11 and he's actually bringing you back from school now, too. And I'm like, Oh, this is interesting, Like he's noticing. It was also because now I'm talking about it now. My parents were talking about it. We're all talking about it, right? And so, um, he's like a little basketball player, and he's always practicing, you know, shooting hoops and everything like that. You love us basketball. But he feels like his gym teacher. Um never calls on him, you know, he said that there he's only calling on the white kids because they're kind of assuming that the white kids are better than basketball than the Indian kids. So just giving a background on demographics is like majority brown now the youth. So it's like majority, um Brown, like DC like Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani? Definitely. Yeah. Yes. Teacher, huh? Ah, and so, um, I got some frustrated rate because you want to still, like, show people that he's got a hoop. So they chose on the gym. Teacher chose him. Ah, to set an example two days ago because the gym teacher wanted to show how, um it's hard to to shoot like multiple hoops in a row. So they chose him because they're assuming that he's gonna miss. And so he got chosen. He shot 12 hoops in a row on, and he's like, super happy about and he comes back home and he tells us this, and he's like, happy about it. But it's just so frustrating because it's like saying Why is he going through stuff like that? And then he's also telling me that the darker skin Indians are the ones who are getting bullied the most. So once again, it's like that colorism. The anti blackness is still going on and in everywhere in America. Um,

Matt McClain:   55:57
everyone. The world,

Vanessa Villar:   55:58
Yes, everyone in the world for sure.

Christiana Best:   56:01
Um, you know, something you said that's really interesting is that he was selected as an example to feel. And while he knew that and he took the challenge and showed them that he can achieve it and he's not going to fail. How is that impacting his psyche? Somebody

Krystina Jackson:   56:28
flipped it like it

Christiana Best:   56:29
did with time.

Krystina Jackson:   56:30
The shot?

Christiana Best:   56:30
Yes. Which is great. Yeah, but what if he

Christiana Best:   56:34
wasn't as enthusiastic, You know about it. And he didn't practice and he wasn't referring to, you know, ready to go, Because I need to say Enter CE to either symbolically or explicitly use an 11 year old to demonstrate what failure looks like. You know any 11 right? Yeah, it's just, you know, and what message are you giving the white students great. How does that contribute to what's going on now on college campuses?

Sneha Jayaraj:   57:16
And these teachers are the same teachers I had growing up. So it's like these air, the same exact teachers, you know, which is also another problem. We need more black and brown teachers way

Christiana Best:   57:25
need black and brown teachers who are awakened, you know, because if they're putting blinders on and keeping the head down to get along, they may not explicitly do it. But if they saw it or heard it, they're going to say, Just keep your head down and keep it moving. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Matt McClain:   57:48
So I actually have a comment on that when it comes a failure on college campus. So when I transferred to Yukon, um, like I said, when I went to every car was a business major. So I went into Yukon assuming that I would be a business major and I actually didn't get into the business school. So I had a little reflection, period, and I decided that I wanted to be a math teacher. So I went thio, um, the math advising office to see how I could switch majors. And this dude had never met me before. He'd never seen me in his life, and he's looking at my transcript, and I'm not that I'm sitting there thinking I'm like I did 3.5 like I have very good grades. Um, he's looking at my transferred. He looked at me and goes yet Don't bother. You're not gonna get in. You're not gonna make it. You're probably take four years of finish, so find another major. And I said, Oh, really? Okay, So, I mean, I just one thing that I believe in itself. Advocacy. So I went and found somebody else who was gonna help me get to where I wanted to be. But like that could have stopped me right there. And I would have had to do something that I didn't want to do or just completely different, right, Which is like,

Christiana Best:   59:03
I'll give up.

Matt McClain:   59:04
That's a problem.

Christiana Best:   59:05
Yeah. Yeah. And it's a problem for students coming in who don't have to support you and are not used to having toe advocate in that way. Absolutely right. Wow. Thanks for sharing that any, um, conversations at home about race when you were growing up.

Vanessa Villar:   59:30
I think that's such a complex question. Just because, um, you know, identify as, uh, Latina Peruvian, American. Um, but growing up, like at home. You know, my parents came from Peru in the eighties. Um, and at the time, I don't I think they really understood race relations. The united states, let alone race relations in Peru. So, you know, because in Peru, like race isn't the same as a race here, you know, like there is anti blackness and all a lot in America and Peru, especially, um, And in Peru, you know, people don't identify as black. They don't. Even though there are black Peruvians, they are Afro Peruvians. There is also like Asian Peruvians as well, but they don't identify in the in terms of race in that way. And so then coming to United States, I don't think they fully grasp that concept as well. So I feel like the conversation of race didn't really start until I got older and I started to kind of question, um, like what my mom would identify as or what my parents identify as, um and then think about what? I'm identifying us. Because then I don't really understand either. You know, um, and then starting to learn about again, like the race relations and I saved versus in Latin America. Um, you know, growing up, my mom was always called on ***, which is black. And you know, she never really her. Yeah. Yeah. Her nickname is ***. like, and it's It's black. And so my mom never really explained that. And, um, in terms of that, it is because she's a little darker skin. Um, you know, and and I don't think like they fully again understood grasp the concept of res. But then when I started to educate myself on their, um, and ask, um, questions about how race was talked about our home, it's very, you know, it goes back to the stereotypes, you know, Um and it goes back to those micro aggressions and, um and it hurts because it's like I didn't know that. That's kind of where race in their mind was in, Um, you know, I think something my mom told me is that my grandfather would say, You know, you can't makes the races. Can't You can't mess up your race Like And I didn't know that that was something my grandfather said goodbye, but that that But it's true because there is, you know, that the anti blackness in my in America, um and so I think that now it's obviously a lot better. I try to educate my family all the time, like about you know what things are not okay to say things air. Um and, you know, and try to educate also that, you know, there might be some ancestry and our lineage. You just don't identify with it because you weren't raised to identify with it. And And I know, um, you know, I don't animal never, like, identify myself as a, uh, black women, because I'm not, um, but I know that in our lineage, there has to be, You know, Pearl is usually indigenous a lot. People have straight black hair. I have nothing like that, you know? And I have certain features. I know that. You know, there has to be so ties to some African ancestry. But again, I got what I ever find myself. Is that because that isn't what you know? It's not in my reflection of what I am. I I am a lot. You know, I am Peruvian American, raising an eye. States okay. Yeah. Well, thank you

Christiana Best:   1:3:35
for sharing that. Yeah. So it's a cop. It's complex, right? Yeah. And people are at different places. But what's worldwide and what we know is that the darky you are, the less valued you are. I think we can say that worldwide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we do know that the first human beings started in Africa came from Africa. So it's always amazing, you know? Um wow. So talking about race and our families is uncomfortable, to say the least, um, for many people, they're just beginning to have that conversation for many people, if there are not black, but they have some ancestral lineage that is connected to B in black. They may not talk about it. It may be a form of shame or stigma. Right? So it's it's really interesting. Um, how we get to where we are today, you know? And so I too close. I just kind of want to ask you two things. One. What message do you want to share with the world? Um, on this topic. And the other one is, if you were speaking to a faculty or an administrator in a higher education institution, what would you like them to know about what it's like to be a person of color or a black person walking in white space, whether it's a classroom or in campus or going to, ah, math advisory office? You know, What's that like?

Matt McClain:   1:5:27
Um, so I actually think about that second question a lot. When it comes to my grad program. I would love to ask my professors, Just sit there and ask them What would the conversation about race be like if I or someone like me was not in this room right now? Because I know from my experience, a lot of times out there, we had a multicultural class of whatever it may be like. The topic of conversation is race and just a different forms of oppression. However, when I'm sitting there reflecting after we just had this conversation, I had to do most of the talking or like it never passed the surface. So, like no one learned anything if I wasn't here. So, like, how would that conversation go? If I was not here would be my question. My own comment for everybody. Vote okay, I really need out a

Christiana Best:   1:6:26
vote like

Matt McClain:   1:6:28
you don't understand how many people fought for you to vote. It is the least that you can do, and even more so than that, out of respect for our ancestors, you should have respect for yourselves in the future generations because if you do not vote, the status quo is not going to change. And you will be complaining about the same thing you did today. So So

Sneha Jayaraj:   1:6:53
you see how the Boston Activist one by one vote yesterday Yeah,

Matt McClain:   1:6:59
amazing

Vanessa Villar:   1:7:04
love community needed a recount.

Christiana Best:   1:7:08
Wow. Wow, that's wonderful. Yeah, Anyone else?

Vanessa Villar:   1:7:16
I feel like

Krystina Jackson:   1:7:16
if I were to tell somebody that is trying to be in my shoes or is ah, person color part of marginalized identity, I would just say Do whatever you can to be or true and full self and do whatever you can to reach your full potential no matter what that means. Because I do. I do believe that we're all in this journey to find our true potential. And for people that exists within marginalized populations, it's much harder for us like I think about like I bought it with anxiety a lot, and I feel like, Well, I used to think medication for and I don't know And when the reasons why I started it to not take medication for is because I started to feel like this anxiety that I'm having, It's not because I I'm producing it. It's because of the world around me that's producing it. And I don't want to put myself on these pharmaceuticals because the world around me is messed up. I'm not messed up, you know. And so, like, just like realizing that understanding that I was able to have some more introspection and be more mindful and understand that like I could process myself through this journey. If I understood that there's an internal me and then there's an external around me, And so for myself, I just tried to present as myself the best I can and whatever room, in whatever space. And even as when we're talking about white spaces and how hard it is to still be yourself like that is how I win the day by being myself and saying what I needed to say, because nobody else in this world made me small or put me in the box that they wanted me to fit in. I created my own box, so I think that's what people need to do it, especially young people to start creating your own box.

Christiana Best:   1:9:09
Wow, very powerful. Thank you for that.

Sneha Jayaraj:   1:9:14
I guess from guest this the economy or the public policy from like, make sure to invest in Ronan black businesses. You know, make sure to put your money where you want to see it grow and divest in the big business is the corporate support the the union's, um because they they make a difference. Especially here in her for the working families party does a lot for, um Harford. Um, yes. Um and yeah. So I was say support your Ah, you're black and brown. Friends were also starting up businesses. Um, market them, support them advertised. Um, um, because a lot of people are starting up businesses like nowadays. So, um, definitely support with that.

Christiana Best:   1:10:09
Thank you for that message. Yep. Great.

Vanessa Villar:   1:10:13
Um, I would say I think maybe some advice just says things have helped me, Um, reflection really important myself. Reflect all the time, Um, in goal setting and thinking of what, Like, um, you were saying, Like, what? What's your purpose in life and what kind of things you do you want to leave in this world? And what steps are you going to take to get to that? Um, you know, and I think every step is this is a step. I think like even just getting up in the morning. That's one step as to what your legacy you're gonna leave behind so that. But in addition, Thio also look for other resource is and collaborate. Um, don't feel like you have to do everything on your own. I learned that the hard way. Like don't feel like you hadn't take everything on your back because you cannot. You don't have to. There's so many other people there that have the same goals. Focus and can help and support you. And it's healthy to do that. Um, and also just to relax. Sometimes, you know, you don't always have to, um, take on every hurdle you see. Sometimes it's okay. Thio just, you know, look at the hurdle. Question it

Christiana Best:   1:11:42
and he Oh,

Christiana Best:   1:11:47
wow, This has been really powerful. I want to thank you all for coming and sharing and helping people to understand how it is to walk in your shoes,

Christiana Best:   1:12:02
what your experience has been like and how you cope with it. And you're doing a fabulous job. In today's episode about his crimes on college campuses, a few of the statements that were made by the guest speakers resonated with me they are. It isn't role of the oppressed to teach the oppressor. Another one is. I was talking and no one was listening. The third racism would have you feel what you experienced didn't happen. The fourth don't conform with whiteness because it will harm you. The fifth is everyone is anti black until they unlearn it. And the last one is I live my ancestors. Wildest dreams. In today's episode, several themes emerged. Identity and identity politics. Having role models, creating safe spaces on and off campus, learning to navigate white spaces, being self reflective, addressing microaggressions and understanding the formal and informal curriculum. We hope when you listen to a podcast, you would come out of it being more informed. We hope that this would build community within higher education. We also hope that faculty can integrate this information in their curriculum on distort having conversations, using the information here to educate themselves and their students. We hope that parents can use the information for educating themselves about the college campus community, and we also hope that administrators can use this knowledge to be impactful in their policies and procedures around diversity, inclusion and equity in our next episode, we will be speaking to faculty to get their reactions and insights about the conversation you just heard with college students. Please join us again as we continue this important conversation. Thank you for listening. And I'll see you next time on the inside. Out outside, in podcasts.

Gabe Herman:   1:14:22
You have been listening to the inside out outside in podcast. Our executive producer is Gabe Herman, our production assistant is Snaha Jayaraj. Original music for this podcast was composed by June Aino the inside out outside in podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the Hartford Consortium for Higher Education. The view's information or opinions expressed during this podcast or solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of any college university or the Hartford Consortium of Higher Education. Thank you for listening.