E.62 Unmasking the Overlooked Aspects of Caregiving in the Corporate World with Sue Ryan

Have you ever thought about the staggering number of family caregivers worldwide and the challenges they face? Our latest episode will give you a glimpse of their world, as we are joined by Sue Ryan - a renowned speaker, change strategist, author, executive coach, caregiving coach, and mentor. With over 53 million caregivers right here in the United States, we delve into the pressing need for organizations to support their employees who are juggling caregiving and the workplace.

 Sue delivers her signature offerings Intentionally Navigating Transitions - Leadership Through the Dimensions of Change™, The Prodigy Zone™, Leadership C.A.R.E.S.™ and The Caregiver’s Journey.
The Caregivers Journey Course: @ https://sueryan.solutions/course/
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/suearmstrongryan

In the episode, we unravel the layers of self-identification as a caregiver. Sue sheds light on cultivating a supportive environment for caregivers within organizations and the business perspective of offering help to family caregivers. She points out the importance of creating resources for self-identification and education surrounding family caregiving. 

As we move into our discussion on faith and caregiving, Sue shares how her faith and conversations with God have shaped her work and motivations. She underlines the importance of massive acceptance, radical presence, and the indispensability of self-care for caregivers. Gleaning from her personal and professional experience, Sue suggests that even in grieving, we can find empowering lessons and silver linings. So, join us in this enriching and insightful conversation as we explore the complex world of caregiving and the organizations that can make a difference.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi there, welcome to Conversations, where we seek to advance your leader in team excellence by discussing relevant topics that impact today's organizations. Welcome to the show, Welcome to Conversations, where today we have Ms Sue Ryan. Sue's mission is to empower and embolden individuals to maximize the opportunities and potential change will bring. As a speaker, change strategist, author, executive coach, caregiving coach and mentor, she lives this through two passions of her purpose she guides and inspires leaders and emerging leaders committed to business growth and next level leadership to be great leaders of themselves and others. Sue guides non-professional caregivers to become confident, balanced and supported in all phases of their caregiving journey. Sue delivers these through her signature offerings intentionally navigating transitions, leadership through the dimensions of change, the prodigies, own leadership, cares and the caregivers journey. And for all you strengths, enthusiasts, Sue leads with woo, self-assurance achiever, positivity and maximizer. So welcome to the show. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 1:16

Kelly, I am great and grateful grateful to be here and have an opportunity to share with your listeners things that I'm called to share with the world.

Speaker 1: 1:26

And I'm really excited about this. We connected on LinkedIn and that's how we met. And the more that I learned we sat and had coffee that one day and the more I learned about this journey that you're on it. Just it sparked in me. It's like, oh my goodness, I need to see if she wants to come on conversations, because this information a lot of times people don't think about in leadership and organizations when it has to do with caregiving. So I would love to just roll right into. How did this passion just come about for you?

Speaker 2: 2:03

It came about for me that for the past 40 years, roles of non-professional or family caregiving support have been being brought into my life and I've been navigating them in parallel with the other roles of my life, which, for more than 30 years, included my professional career in enterprise application software sales, and what I recognized is the issues that family caregivers face when navigating professional roles, especially because, through the majority of my career, it wasn't appropriate for me to share that I was also a family caregiver because of stigmas and other kinds of things that now many of which have gone away. However, it created an extra burden, and the other side of that is there is a tsunami coming. The number of caregivers is increasing exponentially, or the number of caregivers is increasing exponentially and the number of caregivers is being reduced exponentially many because those baby boomers who used to be the family caregivers are now becoming caregivers, and people, especially after the pandemic, who would have gone into professional roles as caregiving support. They're like I'm out of here, I'm not doing this.

Speaker 1: 3:35

So what are the statistics saying? What are you finding in your research around caregiving? And you just tell me I know that there's probably a lot of statistics out there what kind of jumped out to you or continues for you to kind of scratch your head out?

Speaker 2: 3:52

I'll read off these statistics and we can apply context to them later. But worldwide and these are conservative numbers, because it's not like I've gone to the doctor's office or someplace else and they have a box that says are you a family caregiver? So whatever numbers we're using are on the lower side of what actually is really the true number. So these are still staggering. Just with 18 countries worldwide they've identified, there are more than 25 billion family caregivers.

Speaker 2: 4:31

In the United States alone, family caregivers are providing more than $600 billion in unpaid payer, and there are more than 53 million family caregivers in the United States alone. So the amount of unpaid care that they're providing is significant, and there are way more statistics on all of that. But about 25% of the family caregivers are caring for more than one person. There are about the 53 million that are over 18 years old. However, there are nearly 4 million family caregivers who are 18 years or under, and so we're not talking about just having people who you would have traditionally thought of as more senior or whatever. More than 60% and they've got the numbers between 60 and 70% of family caregivers are either working full or part-time, and by 2034, this is one of the statistics I think is staggering, which is why I really want people in business who may not be thinking of this as significant. One statistic to me is one by 2034, adults 65 and older will outnumber children under the age of 18.

Speaker 1: 6:02

That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 6:03

Yeah, so you know they're, you know and the people who are care receivers a couple statistics on that and we'll move them forward but more than 8 million disabled children under the age of 21. And so when we're talking about care receivers, we're not talking about an age demographic, a diagnosis demographic. We're talking about a variety of disabilities and ages. That the spectrum is significant and this is a sad one, and this is really why one of the reasons that I find it so important to be raising this in the business community More than 40% of family caregivers are leaving the workforce because they can't navigate both, and they're losing over $3 trillion in wages, pensions and benefits.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Now, if you look at that statistic on the other side of it, think of yourself as a business and you've got these valuable, valuable, valuable employees. And when we have more baby boomers, which means that they're retiring, we want to keep every valuable asset in our organization that we can, who can be bringing up and guiding and leading the next wave of leaders. So we don't want people to have to leave. It's also expensive and time consuming to try to replace them. The more that we can do to help family caregivers be able to stay in their roles and stay valuable, because it also helps them, gives them sense of purpose and connects them and money and all these other things, the better off it's going to be. So there are a whole wide range of statistics that help you get an idea of how significant this issue really is.

Speaker 1: 7:53

And that's amazing because organizations are identifying, like the Family Leave Act, so maternity leave and different things like that, disabilities within the workplace and whatnot. But it seems a rarity that I've heard anyway about caregiving support within organizations and you just rattled off a whole bunch of information about the benefits that an organization can have by keeping their people good, solid people who have that knowledge and experience that they've come to know. And so what are these conversations maybe look like for organizations who are listening to this and kind of the light bulbs going off for them.

Speaker 2: 8:38

Sure, the things that are valuable to know. So, ground level, what we're talking about, companies have already addressed things like this in the past when they came up. So, while this is something that they're facing that is newer to them, it's not like they're starting something that's a brand new dynamic they've never done before. They don't have processes. For example, they started, like you were saying, maternity and Family Leave Act. Many organizations now have childcare centers for children. The dynamic of family caregiving is just another type of a focus on a special group of people who are as valuable to you as anyone else and you want to keep them. Part of the conversation comes into when you look organizationally, many organizations will say and I've had these conversations, they're interesting conversations because, all of a sudden, when this door opens for them, they're like, wow, and here's what happens in the conversation. They're like, well, we don't have people coming to us saying that they need family caregiving support, that they don't need benefits packages. They're not coming to us with that. Yes, I understand. And how many of them do you have you've recognized in the company? Oh, not very many. We really we don't have very many.

Speaker 2: 10:05

One of the things that happens is that family caregivers do not self-identify in the work environment as a family caregiver for several reasons. Some of them may not be legitimate in the company they're there for, but they don't want to testing the waters unless the company comes out and says we embrace you. One reason is companies have not identified that they embrace family caregivers and family caregivers. One of the issues they're going to have is they're going to have to be taking some time off. They may have some unplanned time off. They may have to have days where they're only working a few hours. So their schedules may be, especially during their caregiving journey. Their schedules may be impacted somewhat.

Speaker 2: 10:46

If they say to the leadership team I'm a family caregiver, what their perception is in many, many conversations with family caregivers who are also working well, they're not going to give me projects to do, they're not going to promote me, they're not going to give me a bonus because I have to take time off, and so they don't want.

Speaker 2: 11:07

And they say when they're, if they have to cut back, they're going to cut me back. So they're concerned and afraid of allowing the organization to know they're actually a family caregiver, for fear of whether obviously known or just assumed. They're not being recognized and honored and respected, and that's one of the things. And so when you have an organization and they're unaware of it and you raise this to their level of awareness, they're like wow, let's start by finding out, making family caregivers feel welcome to share with us they actually are so that we can then create support, resources and mechanisms, create team structures, do all kinds of things that continue to allow us as a business to thrive, which is what you really want the business to be able to do, while allowing teams to be able to be successful working with family caregivers and yet give family caregivers the ability to stay valuable resources in the organization.

Speaker 1: 12:09

For sure. I feel as though if an organization creates that environment that is inviting for somebody to step out and say, yes, I am, and this is what I need and this is how you can help, I think that more people would probably step into that. But it kind of leads me to the question about how do you self-identify as a caregiver? What does that look like? Because I'm sure that there are a lot of people who are giving care who are not saying I'm a caregiver.

Speaker 2: 12:39

Yes, that's such a great question and it actually works on both sides self-identifying as a caregiver, self-identifying as a care receiver. In the concept of self-identifying as a caregiver there are probably more than three, but I've come up with three different categories. One is I know I'm a family caregiver. I have stepped into it. I understand what it is. I am providing support for someone and I'm not a professional. This is not my job. I haven't been hired to do this. I may be getting paid money for it. For example, if there are several siblings and somebody lives close to mom and dad and one of them is caring for them, other family members may be paying them. So it doesn't mean that the family caregiver is unpaid. That's something. That's a term some people use, but they're not a professional. This is not their job. They've stepped into this to help out, either because there's nobody else to do it, they can't afford any other resource, or they choose to do it. So there are reasons why they would. So one is very easily I am a family caregiver. Another one is I get the sense I'm going to be a family caregiver and boy, I just want to push that down the road as long as I can. I really don't want to have to step into that yet. I want to try to find every other option available before I have to step into that.

Speaker 2: 14:00

So they're resisting being identified as a family caregiver and will be very specific about oh no, I'm not caregiving. So they're resisting that. And the third one is they're afraid to allow people to know that they are a caregiver. They know they are, but especially, like at work, they don't want people to know. Or they also don't want social circles to know, because they feel, either culturally, familially or socially, that they might be judged or that people will treat them differently and they don't want that. So there are some. All of these are fear-based reasons. They don't self-identify.

Speaker 1: 14:42

How do we help somebody step into that role? Because that is, it can be very scary.

Speaker 2: 14:51

It can be very scary, Based on the conversation we're having today. What I'll do is I'll talk about it from the business perspective of it. The program that I created called Leadership Cares, and Cares is an acronym for Caregiving, Awareness, Resources, Empowerment and Solutions. A business would first, from a leadership perspective, come out proactively and say we support family caregivers, we support people who are providing care for a family member or loved one, and they define what that sounds like and looks like. And we support you. We want you to feel comfortable having conversations with us so that we can create programs that support you being able to stay working with us and we can continue to be supporting our customers and providing the level of service and product that we're committed to. So it's from a leadership perspective, giving people permission to step into that.

Speaker 2: 15:58

One of the things that I've done is I've created a resource that asks a number of questions for helping people self-identify if they are a caregiver. Some of those might be our well, and let me take that back. One statement we may not know. We've become a caregiver because we started out just, you know, helping out our neighbor, picking up the newspaper for them and then taking out the trash for them. And then we're like well, we're going to go to the grocery store, Can I pick anything up for you? And then they call us and say I've got to run to the doctor, Could you take me to the doctor?

Speaker 2: 16:36

Gradually, over time, we've been adding additional responsibility after responsibility. There wasn't a thing that says, if you're doing this, you've all of a sudden crossed the line to being a family caregiver and so, under the construct of that, it's asking yourself questions to raise to your level of awareness. How many things am I actually doing? Am I checking on the medications of someone? Am I taking them to appointments? Am I driving for them so they don't have to? Am I calling them on a regular basis because I'm concerned about their health or safety? Am I investing more of my time focusing on what their needs are? Are we doing outsourcing more things? So I have a variety of different things that help people raise to their level of awareness that, oh, maybe I am a family caregiver.

Speaker 1: 17:27

And where can somebody get that? Is that available?

Speaker 2: 17:31

It is available. It's available. I've created an online course called the Caregivers' Journey, where I walk people through the journey, and that is one of the attached worksheets for that. However, what I'll do is I will give you the document and you can put it on your site if you'd like to, and then for your listeners, they can go ahead and get that, and that just helps to check, to self-identify if maybe they are a family caregiver, and that's actually where the term that's where sometimes people will separate the term non-professional from a family caregiver. They're basically very similar, but I have been a non-professional caregiver. I've been a caregiver for people who I'm not related to, but not in a professional capacity. So some people get hung up on the term family because they think it's only members of your family.

Speaker 1: 18:32

So we've talked about the organization. If we were talking, let's go to a team dynamic, let's go down even further from the organization and you have a team member one maybe even more than one on a team who has said you know, I have self identified as a caregiver, I may have some additional needs. How could maybe a team rally around that person?

Speaker 2: 19:00

That is a great question. Several of the things that can be done from a team dynamic is when team members are comfortable self identifying as a caregiver, the entire team understands what they are. Then the team members who don't know anything about family caregiving there's information that can help them understand what some of the impacts can be and the person who is the family caregiver can talk a little bit, to wherever they're comfortable with, about their caregiving journey. Then what the team does is lays out here the things that we're working on and identifies where the family caregiver is involved with them and the responsibilities they have. I've seen a variety of different things be done that, depending on the season the family caregiver is in with their care receiver, they might shift some of the responsibilities they're performing with the team to someone else, or they may have a backup so that if, for any reason, they are not able to be there for an important meeting, someone else has access to their information. Someone else understands that they would be tasked with taking notes or things like that. So they create a process that understands the fact that periodically this person may not be available and when everybody's a part of it, because everybody wants to help. People want to help. When they're able to come together creatively and say what are we going to do, it helps everybody.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Now one of the really exciting parts of this that I've seen in businesses when they have done this is that other people have recognized when they have something going on in their family they're using the same team dynamic, not just because of caregiving but, for example, one of the ones is that somebody was having their knee replaced and they said let's use this exercise because I'm going to be having my knee replaced. So proactively they say they got whiteboards and they put things out and they just shifted things for people to have. So it can expand to a variety of different areas. But it allows the team dynamic to be creative and to be supportive and have backup plans so that the team can be productive and everybody feels good. They're not feeling resentful because somebody keeps calling out and they don't know why.

Speaker 1: 21:20

And that's a great way to display empathy.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Grace, empathy and compassion are so huge.

Speaker 1: 21:29

Yes, Wow, what else? What else haven't we talked about? That's important to get out here today.

Speaker 2: 21:41

One of the things that we had talked about is some of the things that might be helpful for people if they currently are in a role of caregiving. Support and while that's a very broad topic, because you could be caregiving for any kind of diagnosis at any kind of age all of these different things Two things that have been impactful for my life that began in my role as a caregiver and have now expanded to all parts of my life, and people who I've worked with have embraced it in all areas of their life is massive acceptance and radical presence. It came to me when I was evaluating a caregiving experience with my dad, when I felt like I had really let him down caring for him, and it was because, while I had been caregiving for many other people and I knew he had a diagnosis and I had accepted that, I was still trying to get him to do something based on the way I had lived my life and things he had taught me my whole life, and while I was present to what he was struggling with, I wasn't fully present because I was trying to get him to do something that he had taught me about being safe and I didn't realize he didn't have access to that anymore, because I'm trying to do what my dad taught me all my life. And so what I recognized is that there's a difference between accepting something and being present to massively accepting, which is we accept exactly what is. We accept it 100%. We don't have to like it, we don't have to agree with it and in the moment we don't even have to understand it. That may come days, weeks, months, years later. We just have to accept it. And, most importantly, we have to accept it without judgment, not judgment of ourselves or others, of the situation. So we massively accept this.

Speaker 2: 23:38

And when we do, from a presence perspective, we practice radical presence, which is saying, fully focused in the moment, which is all we really have. We're not doing what I was doing. I was wanting it to be the way it had been before, remembering the way my dad had taught me, the way he'd been doing things all his life. And then I was also projecting, fortune telling, projecting in the future, based on what could potentially happen, as opposed to really looking at what the potential impossibilities in the moment were.

Speaker 2: 24:11

And when we practice massive acceptance and radical presence, we are able to see the potential impossibilities in the moment, which means we're able to make the wisest decisions because we're not judging it, we're not clouding it with anything. It's like what is here and now, what do we make the decision? The gift in that is that we're able to make a more challenging decision and feel confident with it so we can move forward and take the next steps and we can get support if that's the right thing to do. But the other part of it is that we can see beauty and even the tiniest little thing, because we're right there, fully present, and we're just observing it for exactly what it is. So I would say that one of the greatest things caregiver, in any area of their caregiving, experience and journey, is massive acceptance and radical presence.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Wow, and you know that can go through and, like you said, it could be in every area of your life that you can be utilizing those, because it's really important if we're going to be present in the moment and really embrace what's in front of us.

Speaker 2: 25:27

When you practice it in other areas of your life, it just keeps getting better and better and better. Yeah, like it's easier, like it's easier, and it's not devoid of challenges, it's just devoid of how, because I also feel like everything in our lives is happening for us. There's a lesson for us in everything, whether it's a challenging moment or a positive moment. It allows us to be able to see that, so we can grow from those things. So it is great in all areas of our lives.

Speaker 1: 25:59

We talked about something briefly when we met for coffee that day and it was about self care, and I'd love for you to maybe just touch on self care for caregivers.

Speaker 2: 26:11

So thank you for asking that Such a great question. Self care and I say self care isn't selfish, it's self love. Self care can be very challenging because we want to provide the best level of care possible for our care receiver and it's easy for us to just shave off a little here or a little there. I don't need much sleep, I can stay up an extra hour after they've gone to bed and do the finances, or I can get up an extra hour early and do the laundry, and so we, instead of going to the gym, will do the laundry or do something else because we want to make sure we're fully present for our care receiver. So we begin to shave off.

Speaker 2: 26:52

Or we haven't defined what self care looks like for us. We haven't said to ourselves self care is so important, and so self care is the combination of what does it look like for you? What does it look like if you don't practice it? Because many of us have stepped into overwhelm and we've seen, when we're not practicing self-care, what happens. And so what does it look like for you? And then, how do you apply it?

Speaker 2: 27:23

Let's say you've only got a minute or two. What would be something you could do in a minute, what would you do if you had five minutes, if you had an hour, if you had two hours? And then you look intentionally. So self-care is something that's intentional in our lives. How do you intentionally incorporate it into your life so that you remember you need to take care of you and you honor that? And as your caregiving journey goes through different seasons, you have different ways of being able to practice it. You also recognize that if you get to a place in your life where you don't have capacity or you feel like you have to shave off self-care, that's a place where you go. I need support. It's time for me to reach out to somebody else because I'm not giving up self-care, because if you're not there for your care receiver, that's a bigger problem.

Speaker 1: 28:24

Yeah, and that kind of has my mind circling back to the organizational element and how, if you are being supported at an organization, how can that organization make sure that self-care is part of the process? That sounds like it's something that would be important, because we want our people showing up well to work.

Speaker 2: 28:47

You want them showing up well and then you want them to have, and I have noticed organizations have done things They'll have. Some of them have like a Zen garden where some of them will have a space where people can go and just be quiet. Some organizations, while they don't necessarily call it self-care, they support the concept of that or they've created programs where somebody could go out and take a course or they could do something. But I like what you're saying is to make it in an intentional part of what people are doing, and truly self-care doesn't have to be something that you have to do an hour in the morning and then 15 minutes in the afternoon or whatever. It can be a variety of different things. It's you figuring out what it is for you and being intentional about doing it.

Speaker 1: 29:34

You know, I know you are a woman of faith, so I would love to hear a little bit about how all of this combined the work that you do kind of you know attaches to your faith, what that means to you.

Speaker 2: 29:50

From a faith perspective. I have conversations with God all the time and my conversations are if there's something I can be doing to provide a better level of support for my loved one, until you're ready for them, please let me know. I'm doing what I feel that I can do and it's very important to me, and yet please keep guiding me if I could be doing something better for their care. And I also recognize I can only control me and, from a faith-based perspective, I thank God. All the time I say I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 30:30

This is our journey. I accept this is our journey. Maybe someday I will understand. I don't need to understand. I accept it and whatever lessons you have for me I don't want to miss. So please allow me to learn the lessons and if I'm not paying attention, thump me. And also, for my care receiver, help me make sure that if there's something you want for them, if there's a lesson they still need to learn before you're ready for them, that I put them in the best position for that lesson to be a part of their journey.

Speaker 1: 31:07

That is beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2: 31:10

Thank you. I really feel like God brought me here for a reason. He brought it all of us for a reason. He's got reasons for the things he does that we don't necessarily understand. This is our journey. I don't fight it. I'm not angry with God about anything. I'm not angry with anybody about anything. I embrace it as what is there here for us to learn. Would I have chosen it? I wouldn't have chosen it if you had given me a list. However, there are all kinds of things we wouldn't choose in our lives if we had a list to choose them. And yet, when we reflect back, we've developed resilience, we're stronger, we've learned things from it. It's the same thing with grief. We wouldn't have the emotion of grief if it didn't have a purpose in our lives, and so, while most people wish they didn't have to navigate grief, there's a reason for it.

Speaker 1: 32:00

There sure is, Wow, A lot of good information here. Ms Sue Ryan, how can people get ahold of you Because I'm sure there's gonna be listeners who you really pique their interest, whether it's at an organizational level, leadership level or individual level who maybe just heard something today and is like I need to just reach out to Sue. How can they get more information? And I will put what you sent me into the show notes there, but how can people get ahold of you? Maybe find out a little bit more about what you do.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Thank you. My email address is Sue at su-ryansolutions. My website is su-ryansolutions and people can reach out through that. I'm on. I'll look on LinkedIn. I don't remember if I'm Susan Ryan. My given name is Susan. I don't remember if I'm Susan Ryan or Sue Ryan on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 33:01

All right, and look for the red hair.

Speaker 2: 33:04

Yeah, you can tell from my profile picture. If you've found there, Let me pull it up real quick. I'll tell you who I am on LinkedIn and those are, and I really want people to know they never have to be alone on their journey. So, yeah, on LinkedIn I'm Sue Ryan or Sue Armstrong Ryan. Yeah, so I'm Sue Ryan, At any rate, wherever they are. I hope that this gives them the opportunity to consider, if they're on a journey or if they are leading others who are on the journey, ways for them to be able to provide an extra level of support. And one other point diagnoses don't discriminate. You can be the CEO of an organization and your spouse or your parents they have something and they need a caregiver and you instantly become a caregiver. It doesn't matter where you are in an organization. You can become a family caregiver.

Speaker 1: 34:09

One last question that I have about it early on about when organizations assess what is a good way for them to be assessing. What does that look like, and is there implications with HR and legal issues? How does that work? Do you happen to have an answer to that? They are very important.

Speaker 2: 34:34

They have it all reviewed and I'm not an attorney and I'm not an HR specialist. I've had conversations. Different organizations have navigated this differently. The recommendation I will say is, whatever you do, run it through legal and through HR, because there are implications.

Speaker 2: 34:51

However, from a leadership perspective, when the organizational leadership communicates to the organization, we understand and we want to learn more about the family caregivers in our organization so that we can provide support resources for them and for our team, so that we can all work together, because it's not just the family caregiver, it's the other people who are impacted. When the organization makes it known that caregivers have permission to then self-identify, then whatever way the organization chooses to do that In the beginning, one of the things some of them have done is a completely anonymous survey. They've said we don't want to know who you are. All we want to know is how many family caregivers we have, how many non-professional caregivers we have, so that we can be considering how to support you. It's having the caregivers have permission to self-identify, knowing that it's okay that they can do that.

Speaker 1: 36:10

Then start taking questions. Reach out to Sue Ryan. She will help you navigate the process for this because it is important. Like I said earlier, it's probably something that organizations are not really thinking about unless it has somehow. Their top leadership has been a caregiver or had to look into caregiving A lot of times. Things at the top they will trickle down if there's been experience up here where they need to know and need to expand that.

Speaker 2: 36:47

It's been challenging as I go into organizations. It's challenging because there are so many things going on in organizations right now. It would be great to be able to push it farther down the road. The challenge is this is not something that's linear, being pushed down the road. It's increasing exponentially, and so the longer that an organization goes without addressing it, the exponential increase in the impact it's going to have.

Speaker 1: 37:18

Well, thank you, sue, for coming on conversations and really unpacking the good work that you're doing, the insight that you have and just your strength and your courage and your collaboration with organizations and leaders and individuals who are meeting with you and having those good conversations about what their next steps are. So thank you so much. I appreciate you and the work that you're doing.

Speaker 2: 37:45

I appreciate you and the work you're doing and helping leaders and everything that you're bringing with the messages that you are, and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to raise this to people's level of awareness so that they can consider it as they move forward. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 38:01

You're welcome. I keep saying it is important work and it's different. And I love the conversation because it's different than just the regular things you think about within leadership and teams and organizations. It's just different, but it's a need to. We need to be having these conversations, we need to be figuring out how to honor our people and doing it with what their needs are, because, like you said, it could look different depending on the person. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 38:37

I appreciate you. I do Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, you, you, you, you, you, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music.