E77. Transforming Leadership Through Deep Forgiveness: A Conversation w/ Dr. Diane Swanson

How does deep forgiveness transform your ability to lead effectively? Join us as we sit down with Diane Swanson, an inspiring author, speaker, and leadership coach, who shares her remarkable journey from the depths of personal hardship to becoming a beacon of hope in the Christian recovery industry. Diane's story of overcoming a devastating divorce and her struggle with fear will resonate with many leaders.

Dr. Swanson delves into the concept of strongholds. These spiritually influenced lies can shape our behaviors and beliefs, leading to self-sabotage without our conscious awareness. Diane emphasizes the power of integrating faith and sacred community to confront these lies, fostering true forgiveness and freedom.

Diane further guides us through the discovery and healing of leadership barriers, symbolized by a spiritual leadership mantle. She highlights how life events and feelings of unworthiness can hinder our leadership effectiveness, but by addressing these issues spiritually, we can restore our God-given authority to lead.

This conversation is essential for anyone yearning to reclaim their mantle and lead with divine authority.

Connect with Diane, find her books, and course @ https://www.drdianeswanson.com/

Transcript

Transforming Lives Through Forgiveness and Leadership

Speaker 1 0:00

Well, hey there, and welcome to Conversations where today we have Diane, who is an author, speaker and leadership coach. Dr Swanson has a doctorate in strategic leadership and is an ordained minister. Diane serves full-time as the national director of women's programs at Hoving Home, a ministry that helps women in addiction rebuild their shattered lives. Diane has served in the Christian recovery industry, both in the US and internationally, for more than 20 years. She has a passion to equip leaders to transform lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Diane is the author of Forgiveness why and how to Forgive and the Leadership Mantle. Diane, welcome to the show. How are you today?

Speaker 2 0:46

Thank you. I am so pleased to be here with you. It's such an honor. Thank you. You are welcome and doing well.

Speaker 1 0:53

Wonderful. Well, congratulations on your books. And before we dig into the questions that I have here, I would love to hear kind of what propelled you to write in the space of forgiveness and leadership, because some may find those as polarities.

Speaker 2 1:13

Yes, oh well, what a great question. I really have to tell you, though, it was not this long term plan. Well, one day I'm going to do this. It was probably birthed out of my own personal need. I went through some really hard life events. One was divorce.

Speaker 2 1:33

That was just crippling in the moments, you know, and I didn't know how to unpack all of the pain that was in my heart, even though I was a believer and had been a believer, attended church, faithful I'm actually was in active ministry at the time and um, but that pain was so large it it crippled me, you know. And and when you are walking around with a wounded heart, a bitter heart and in, uh, an angry heart and an angry heart, it just leaks into everything you do and everyone you know. And yet there's also accompanying this incredible blind spot that you just don't see how truly what's the word I'm kind of looking for handicapped, that you really are, and so you're walking around in sincerity, but you're sincerely wounded and blind. And it was just. You know, the more I pressed into the Lord, the more gently he just started to reveal my own need for deep forgiveness, just started to reveal my own need for deep forgiveness, not that $5 debt, but that $40 million debt. You know the deep one that you just bury and it's like I'm not ever going to think about that again, but that doesn't heal it. And so he took me on this amazing journey. And when I did learn how to unpack my heart, all of my close relationships were impacted. My children learned to forgive.

Speaker 2 3:12

Where I worked I worked in a ministry. I shared the concepts and I saw my best friend's lives transformed and ministry partners' lives transformed and ministry partners' lives transformed. And then the Lord said okay, now that you're free, let's have you roam around the world. And he took me out of my little job and gave me a great big job. And I realized quickly in this great big job I didn't know how to wrap my mind around what I needed to do. And he said, okay, good, let's go back to school. And I'm like, no God, you got the wrong girl here. I I, no, I don't, but I did. I recognized it as the voice of the Lord and I was obedient and kind of went back to school kicking and screaming and terrified, hadn't been in college for 30 years, knew it was the voice of God, knew I had to do it inside Did it afraid, and I went back to school and got my master's in organizational leadership and knew that I wasn't done then, and I took a year off to give my brain a reset. And then I went back and got my doctorate in strategic leadership and even though leadership wasn't on my radar, god had placed me he had already placed me in a place of massive leadership, and so how delightful it was. As I went through school, everything was immediately applicable to what I was doing, and so my second life transformation came through education, and I just adore it now.

Speaker 2 4:55

Obviously, I adore leadership, but I think the best part is I like a blending of those two things, a blending of those two things. I like to see leaders absolutely equipped for leadership, but I like to see them healed from those internal barriers that keep them small and ineffective and insecure. So that's why I love those two topics. I think they absolutely go together hand in hand, because if you can't conquer the things that are internally keeping you from being a good leader, you won't succeed as a leader. You'll lead harshly, You'll lead with intimidation, You'll lead with all the wrong weapons, not the weapons of God. So that was testimony.

Speaker 1 5:46

I love that and to see where God has, like he continued to position you yes For his plan. It definitely wouldn't have been written by you, the plan that he had for you, correct?

Speaker 2 6:00

Oh no, no, I would have been. You know, leadership wasn't on my radar. In fact, my default settings were stay small, hide, be the support person, not the one out front. And the Lord was like no, I'm going to put you right in front and let's see what you can do. And he had a lot more confidence in me than I did.

Speaker 2 6:26

Sadly, and you know, this is actually a very common trait for women With every nation of the world. Women are raised, unless their parent intentionally raises them, different. They are raised to be support people, not the leaders. Women are noticed by what they've accomplished. Men are noticed for their potential, and when we have that mindset, we as women just fit right into that slot. And so it was really God's idea that didn't lead me, but he actually pushed me from behind because I was afraid. I was insecure, but I was more afraid of not doing what he asked me to do, and so he convinced me I did it, and the more you do it, the less afraid you are. I'm not afraid anymore. I've been doing it for a minute or two.

Speaker 2 7:33

So, but when I, when I went back to school to get my master's, that first semester was so intimidating, the second semester, not so much. And by the time I'm in my doctorate, I got into a routine and was truly enjoying it. And I think attitude was everything. I remember being in one of my classes, one of my semesters, early on, and I just kept having this mantra fall out of my mouth, didn't even recognize that I was saying it. This is so hard, this is so hard.

Speaker 2 8:15

And the Lord just had me sit down and had a talk with me. He's like it is if you keep talking about it that way. But look, I'm really working hard to answer your prayers, diane, would you work with me? And I'm like, guilty, guilty, lord, this is a gift, this is a gift, this is a gift, that's right. So, yeah, once I changed my attitude, truly, it got a lot easier and I could not just tolerate it, I could truly, truly enjoy it and look back and see the transformation, how far God had taken me. One thing's my, the dean of my class, the very first year of my master's program, very first class of my master's program, I'm sitting in orientation and he said if you will stick with this, I promise you you will be promoted in your job before you finish this. And I was promoted twice. So there's just absolutely a transformation that comes answering the call of God, doing what he asked you to do, and even if you have to do it, afraid.

Speaker 1 9:36

That's a great place to be on this side of it.

Speaker 2 9:40

Yes, on the front side I'm scared.

Speaker 1 9:46

Well, you talked a little bit about internal barriers, but you know most leaders, they like to know what's ahead for themselves, for their teams, for their organizations. But what are some of those?

Speaker 2 10:05

internal barriers that really sabotage that leadership. That might not be on a leader's radar? Great question. So I would say the majority of them are not on your radar unless you can go through some evaluation and get other people's perspectives of your leadership, which absolutely requires a tremendous amount of humility, which absolutely requires a tremendous amount of humility. Right, you've got to not be there to defend yourself. You've got to really take it because you are identifying blind spots. If you knew you were a bad leader, you'd be embarrassed, you'd be ashamed. But sometimes your employees are too afraid to even tell you that you are harsh or short or unrealistic or just a jerk. You know they're too afraid, and so I would say you really have to fight with the weapons of God, and I'd say number one on that list would be the character qualities of Christ Be Christ, be loving, being gentle, being full of humility, and then do. Probably one of the best tools to get an honest opinion of your leadership would be a 360 evaluation, where somebody outside, where it can be done anonymously and there's no threat of repercussions and you don't know who said what you know. But the internal barriers probably are really the ones that you have to address at a spiritual level.

Speaker 2 11:46

Unforgiveness I'd say that's probably number one. If you have unforgiveness, even way back in your childhood, if you had parents who didn't parent well, there's always going to be issues, even if you can say, well, they did the best they could. Well, yes, of course they did the best they could. But that doesn't negate the fact that you were offended, that you were hurt, that you were neglected, you were abandoned, you were rejected, you were belittled, you were beaten, were belittled, you were beaten. You know all of the ugly if it's not forgiven, it still sits there and time doesn't heal those wounds. It's like you know, my first career was in nursing and so when someone had a big wound that needed to be healed, the only way it could heal if that wound was free of infection. And because you can't have healing in the presence of infection, unforgiveness is infection, and so you have to get rid of the infection. You have to get rid of the feelings of betrayal and hatred and anger or just numbness because it was so bad, you just shut off your emotions and then, once forgiveness happens, then you can heal, then you can start moving forward and learn the right way to act.

Breaking Strongholds and Leadership Mantle

Speaker 2 13:30

And you know, I'm from the recovery industry, right, so we have this word trigger that we use a lot. That triggered me. Well, the healing that God gives vaporizes the trigger. If you don't want somebody to push your buttons, let's get rid of the button, right. Let's get that area in your heart so healed you don't have a button for them to push, and so that's what forgiveness can do, and what happens is you get rid of that anger, from that old wound of your mother, and your relationship with your mother will improve, even if you have one, because that spot's not there anymore to filter through, to taint, to keep you from going so far. Because if you don't trust someone completely, then you automatically, defensively, out of self-protection, put up a barrier against them.

Speaker 2 14:32

Right so, but the other things is, all of these critical life events cause us to believe certain ways about ourselves, about God and about people, and those are lies. You know, not every person is going to hurt me, not every man. I've been through a lot of bad relationships. Not every man is going to hurt me. Lot of bad relationships, not every man is going to hurt me. But if I have this lie, or if I have this lie of no one of any worth will ever like me.

Speaker 2 15:13

Then if I filter all of my intentions and my plans through that filter, I will keep my relationship superficial, I will reject before I feel like I'm being rejected. I will self-sabotage but be completely blind to the fact that I'm even doing it. Why? Because in 2 Corinthians 10, god describes that these are called strongholds. They are spiritually influenced lies that we believe as truth, sincerely as truth, and it actually takes the power of a sacred community and God to help us realize that we're even acting this way, or that we're acting out of a rejected heart, that we're acting out of a bitter heart or we're acting out of insecurity. I didn't realize I was insecure until I could look back and see that I was insecure.

Speaker 1 16:21

And it goes back to all those things that we're not seeing. It goes back to what you said in the beginning are going to come out in our leadership yes, in a very nice way. Many times.

Speaker 2 16:34

Right, right, Because you know what is parenting, it's leadership.

Speaker 1 16:40

Absolutely, it is yeah.

Speaker 2 16:43

Yeah, and so you know, our very first exposure to leadership is being parented. And if those parent leaders hurt us, we grow opinions Right. And if we currently struggle with thinking every time the boss calls me into the office that I'm going to be in trouble, that's a clue that shouldn't be my default setting right, that I'm not enough and they're going to be mad that I'm not enough.

Speaker 1 17:16

That's right.

Speaker 2 17:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1 17:20

Well, what role does faith in God play in addressing these barriers for leaders?

Speaker 2 17:27

Oh, probably the most important role. Because, you know, going back to that verse in 2 Corinthians, 10, 3 through 5, that verse starts with we wage war, not as the world does, and in fact the weapons we fight with are divine, and so a spiritual approach is destroying the things that can't be destroyed without God. So the lies that we believe and the unforgiveness that we have takes the power of God to heal us. Jesus provided the payment for forgiveness of sin right, and without that payment, sin will own us. We're a slave without any recourse of freedom other than Christ, but in Christ we're completely free. But if we don't access that freedom, if we just think we got this blanket goodness, I'm cool, I'm righteous, jesus did all this for me and don't walk the walk, don't have the conversations, don't have a priority relationship of God in my life, then I'm kind of just deceived, I'm fooling myself. And a lot of times we don't access forgiveness, even as believers, is because, oh, for a variety of reasons. One we don't even know we might have the need, but it might be so painful, so emotional, that I do everything I can to not think about it and see, the process of forgiveness requires, oh, some things that might really make us emotional, like I will have to look at that event and I will have to look at the face of the person. I mean not in real life, but in my heart, in my mind. I would have to look at the face of the person who hurt me and choose to say I forgive you and to let that go, to take the hook out of my heart that's connecting me to that person, and put that hook in the hands of God and say, lord, I'm trusting you to take care of that. I released him from all of my debt and I'm trusting you to take that. And that process could be painful. It could be so shaming you feel so ashamed that you even have to look at that moment. And so you know and the worst things that you've been through in life, the harder that process can be. And you know, I work in the recovery industry and every woman who walks through the doors of where I work has a truck, a semi-truck, full of regrets and bad life experiences, and I mean some just horrendous that would make us gasp. And I'm just so proud of them for even walking through the door.

Speaker 2 20:46

But sitting down to forgive is an enormous effort. Oh, such a big job. And so for me, as someone who wants to help someone, my superpower, my weapon against darkness at that moment is gentleness, it's kindness, it's unconditional love and acceptance, it's encouragement, all the good things of Christ. Because just to even whisper God, forgive me for God, I choose to forgive them, for. Forgive me for God, I choose to forgive them.

Speaker 2 21:32

For it takes such a great strength to sit there and then you got to let yourself be emotional and sometimes, oh, I want to get emotional, I don't want to cry, I don't want to be vulnerable there's the word, because we've equated vulnerability with weakness. But vulnerability is not weakness. It's such a tremendous strength to be vulnerable, such a tremendous strength to be humble, right To admit that I need help. Who wants to do that? You do if you want to be free, right, and that's why you know, for me personally, my best healing moments didn't happen to me by myself. It happened to me with someone holding my hand in the process. And that's what we do for each other, right? That's sacred community. We help each other on this journey. We walk together, we say you know what? There's nothing you can do that would make me love you less. Nothing you can say that will make me love you less. So let's walk through this together.

Speaker 1 22:47

Yeah, the healing moments that you said, those moments where you've made that decision, because forgiveness is a decision. You have to choose that, like you said. But that is, there is sacredness within that and it is such a gift to yourself when you make that choice to forgive.

Speaker 2 23:11

Such a gift right? Best self-care ever? Yes, yeah, you know, and forgiving yourself honestly is the hardest. The hardest because for some reason we've resigned in our heart I don't deserve it. And so you know, especially when you look back on your, on your little child self, and you see that little girl that was mistreated or made fun of or neglected and you've judged that little girl as not worthy to be loved. But that's yourself. And so a hatred can grow. But it's wow, so far under your radar that you haven't noticed that you've just tried to destroy that little girl with addiction, with bad relationships. You tell her she's not smart enough, not pretty enough, you withhold her from promotion. You can't do that job, you're not good enough for that job, all lies.

Speaker 1 24:21

All lies. I've been there.

Speaker 2 24:23

Yeah, yeah. But if you'll go back and you forgive that little girl for being mistreated and unloved and unprotected and tell her how wonderful she is, how valuable she is, then you'll, you'll start in the now loving yourself better.

Speaker 1 24:45

That's right. Yeah, that's good stuff, all right. Well, let's move to this your book, the Leadership Mantle. So you talk about this mantle of leadership and we hear the word mantle of leadership picking up your and we hear the word mantle of leadership picking up your mantle. But I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about this and unpack how you see the mantle of leadership.

Discovering and Healing Leadership Barriers

Speaker 2 25:12

Sure. Well, let me just start by kind of telling you what I think the mantle is for me, and I'm going to just really talk in spiritual terms. I'm going to just really talk in spiritual terms. So let's pretend that you are among royalty right now and you see this beautiful cloak that the king or queen wears. But this one's even more spectacular because it's covered in diamonds and jewels. It's costly, it's gorgeous, it's exquisite, and when you put it on, you feel rich, you feel important, you feel powerful, you feel commissioned and honored by God. That's your mantle. That's the mantle that gives you permission to lead. But this is spiritual. So let's just pretend you're already wearing that, but it's invisible. But there's a weight to it, there's an authority accompanied by God. You know, this mantle wasn't given to any of us because we deserved it. This is a commission of God that goes all the way back to Genesis, chapter 1, where he's commissioned us to rule, to reign, to govern, and so that's the mantle and we grow up into it.

Speaker 2 26:40

But the problem is, we can have life events especially if it impacts the way we were parented or the way we acted as a parent that will completely destroy our mantle and we say you know what? We don't say this out loud, maybe, but we say it in our heart I'm not worthy of this mantle. I got to put it over there because I'm not worthy. I can't wear it and the way we rationalize that lie of unworthiness and maybe you think it's validated because the things that you did were real.

Speaker 2 27:19

A lot of people who are in addiction have abandoned their kids or have had abortions. People who are in addiction have abandoned their kids or have had abortions. But even someone who's had a miscarriage or given their child up for adoption can feel like a failure. Or you could have an adult child who you've raised to serve the Lord, but as an adult they went away and you feel like a failure as a parent and you've resigned in your heart. I failed at my most important leadership job. I'm not worthy to be that leader, and so we take it off and we set it aside. And that's when we lead harshly, out of insecurity, out of anger. Whatever we're holding against ourself, you can't keep it inside. It will leak on everything you do and all of your relationships. Right, god says that bitter root defiles many.

Speaker 2 28:18

And so the leadership mantle is about answering that call of God on your life to lead, and identifying and repairing or destroying the things that keep you from being a good leader, but using a spiritual approach. So, yes, I believe you should do all the skills, but this book isn't about skills. This book is about how can I get God to fix my broken pieces as a leader. And so the book is written actually as a Bible study in a way, because at the end of every chapter you're going to have reflection questions and scripture to meditate on and things to pray about.

Speaker 2 29:13

Because we want to take a spiritual approach, we want to equip you to fix the lies that you believe, to fix the unforgiveness issues that you faced for, to fix the idols that you've set up that keep you off track, to value sacred community. You know, even as a leader, sometimes we think, oh, if I'm a leader, I can't have any close relationships. Well, that's a lie, that's going to keep you crippled Right. And so we have to have the sacred community. We have to have doesn't have to be a lot, but has to be a handful of people who we can be completely authentic with and vulnerable and be willing to be wrong and we give them permission to speak into our life, even to say the hardest things. That's the only way we get better. So the book is called the Leadership Mantle and actually it addresses the father mantle and it addresses the mother mantle, because both women and men were commissioned to lead, but we lead differently.

Speaker 1 30:48

That is true. I have to say right now that I am just so captivated by hearing you talk about this. It was just there's so much richness from a spiritual approach to really engage and entertain what that looks like from the lens of spirituality.

Speaker 2 31:12

It's just good stuff For me, you know, for me it was the. For me, jesus is the game changer, right yeah?

Speaker 1 31:22

And.

Speaker 2 31:23

I value counseling, but counseling is not going to break my strongholds. I value education, but education's not going to relieve me of my unforgiveness. I need that close personal relationship with God. I need the power of the Holy Spirit in my life.

Speaker 2 31:45

I need to be supernatural sometimes you know, and that only comes from my very intentional, deep relationship, trusting relationship with God. And so, but once I have that, once I have my love commitment, my marriage with Christ, I will pile on the wisdom and the knowledge of people, I will pile on the skill sets, I will pile on the processes, policies, procedures, organizational development, strategic thinking, all of those things. But only God is big enough to hold it all together for me, so how do you like?

Speaker 1 32:44

what is your approach for helping people overcome?

Speaker 2 32:45

these barriers that you've been talking about. Well, you know, the bible says that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and so so you know. First, all I just practice good coaching, right, good Christian coaching, the art of asking powerful questions. That is, you just have to listen and you listen to what their fears are, you listen to what they repeat, because God says the heart tells on itself by what we say, and that's your superpower, right there. I mean to look at it, to pray over the people that you're coaching and to say, lord, what are they really feeling? I'm hearing the symptoms, but what's the source? And and then you ask good questions, you know, like questions like so, from what I'm hearing, can you describe what you feel? And how old do you feel right now when you're talking about that? Oh, you feel 14. What happened when you were 14? And talk to me about that, and you know, and you kind of figure out what kind of issues that they're having.

Speaker 2 34:07

And what usually happens with every good coaching session is this moment of self-discovery. It's this moment of self-discovery and then at that point you might have to put on a different hat and lead them in a prayer If they don't know how to pray to forgive. You're in charge of doing that. You're in charge of helping them to learn how to pray, because it's not just Father God. In the name of Jesus, I forgive everybody who ever hurt me forever Amen. That didn't cause much faith. I didn't need any faith to pray that prayer and I didn't have to look at anything that hurt me, right, I can still hide that pain away. So helping people to unpack to pray is probably one of the best gifts we can give each other.

Speaker 2 35:08

But how do you figure out? How do you help them? You ask good questions. That's the best. And you know why I like that? Because when they discovered it themselves, especially the hardest moments of reality, nobody did it to them. It's hard enough. It's really hard when you have to discover oh my gosh, I'm the problem. But if somebody told me I was the problem, then my defenses would go up, my walls would go up and I wouldn't believe him. I wouldn't. But when the Holy Spirit reveals it, then the humility sets in and the healing can begin. And that's why I like coaching. And that's why I like coaching, because you're helping them discover the areas that need healing and, once a, light is shined on it, then you can begin the steps to fix it.

Speaker 1 36:16

Yeah, and it doesn't happen overnight.

Speaker 2 36:20

No, it's a journey. It is and it's all it can be, in layers too. You know, you can have all that you need for one job, but the next job is bigger. You know, and I like this quote by Ronald Reagan. He said you know, and I like this quote by Ronald Reagan.

Speaker 1 36:41

He said God rewards a job well done with a bigger job, and he does.

Speaker 2 36:44

You know you succeed in this area. And God says, okay, now we're going to go bigger, but once you go bigger right that prayer of Jabez he expands your territory. Oh wow, look at all the things I'm not equipped for. Oh wow, look at all the things I'm not equipped for. Oh wow, look at all the areas I haven't attended to in my own self. Oh, I never realized I was so afraid. Oh, I never realized I was so insecure. I never realized I needed more training. So you know all of that new, but it came from a blessing, it came from promotion that new, but it came from a blessing, it came from promotion, yeah.

Speaker 2 37:26

Oh, dr Diane Swanson, where can people get this book? Well, I have a website, drdianeswansoncom, so you might want to start there, because I have the links to the books, both my book on forgiveness and my book on the leadership mantle. But I also have curriculum on the forgiveness with videos, which is really great, not just for individual use but if you wanted to help lead a group of your people, bible study or your work group. I've had several ministries use both my leadership mantle and the forgiveness curriculum as part of their staff training for leadership development, so that they can attack those internal barriers. But I also have some free downloads, some documents that you can use, and my books are also available on Amazon. The curriculum's not the curriculum's only available on my website. But yes, please give it a look and let me know what you think and share your success stories and reach out to me if you have questions. I love the questions.

Speaker 1 38:46

Well, I want to thank you for this very real conversation. I appreciate you so much and I'd love to give you just the last word. What would you like to leave the listeners with today?

Speaker 2 39:02

Don't let the lies of the enemy keep you small. Answer that call of God to lead. You know he's calling you to lead because the devil never wants you to lead right. And if that voice is persistent, that's probably Jesus asking you to get out there. And you know you might be bad at it. Do it bad, do it afraid. You'll get better. But answer that call and I promise if you'll just take a step forward to the very next step, he will meet you, he will equip you and we need you.

Prayer for Leadership Prosperity

Speaker 2 39:47

God's counting on us to lead. He's counting on us to raise up Christian leaders to bring transformation to people's lives. He wants you to start that ministry. He wants you to be a coach, a leader to your team. That he's already given you. He wants you to be better and you know the only way to improve the ability of your team is to go look in the mirror and improve yourself first of your team is to go look in the mirror and improve yourself first.

Speaker 2 40:22

So one of the last things I'd like to do is pray for the leaders. Can I do that? Yes, absolutely, father God, I thank you for the brave men and women who had told you. Yes. Thank you, god that they didn't come to you and say, oh, look at me, how amazing I am. They probably came to you and said, lord, I don't even feel worthy, but because you asked, I'm telling you yes. Thank you, god, for their yes. And Lord, I just pray blessings upon them.

Speaker 2 40:55

I pray for their families, I pray for those internal barriers that you're starting to shine a light on. I pray God for their finances, for those ideas that they're not even sure that they should do. But, lord, I believe those ideas, that vision that you've given them for that ministry, those ideas, that vision that you've given them for that ministry, for that job, for the way to raise their family, for the education piece that they need. What I believe, that's you. You are pointing them in the direction of where they should go.

Speaker 2 41:29

Father, I just pray prosperity on them, that they have the money for the education. They have the money to start the ministries. They have the ability to raise up those businesses, those organizations that you've placed in their heart. Father, I pray for them to be surrounded with sacred community. I pray that the power of God just rises up in them and that your word becomes more real. I pray that you talk to them when they're awake, in their quiet time, and you talk to them in their dreams, and I just ask you, god, to show them their greatness, convince them that you have called them to do amazing things. In Jesus' name we pray Amen. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.

Speaker 1 42:18

I received that. Thank you so much, dr Swanson.