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Conversations for Leaders & Teams
Welcome! Since 2020, the Conversations podcast has been dedicated to advancing leader and team excellence by exploring relevant topics that impact today's corporate, nonprofit, and faith organizations. Get social with us @belemleaders or visit belemleaders.org Check out Christian Coaching Magazine @christiancoachingmag on FB and Instagram, or christiancoachingmag.com
Conversations for Leaders & Teams
E90. Leading People—the Jesus Way w/ Father Daniel Brandenburg
We explore how leadership goes far beyond titles, tracing Father Daniel’s mission work and his new book that measures Jesus against top secular models. Practical steps emerge for building aligned teams, treating people with dignity, and making daily prayer a leader’s edge.
• leadership as influence rooted in dignity and mission
• lessons from global missionary work and local impact
• Jesus measured against leading secular frameworks
• the power of small-team formation and delegation
• culture fit, onboarding, and retention through value
• transformation over performance and ego
• aligned diversity versus misaligned goals
• daily prayer as a practical tool for decisions
• simple frameworks for reflection and action
You can find Father Daniels book on Amazon.com and then look for Leader Like No Other. You can also find it with a slightly discounted price @ https://www.regnumchristi.com/en/leader-like-no-other-what-secular-leadership-models-reveal-about-jesus/
Learn more about Father Brandenburg @ https://www.frdanielbrandenburg.com/
BelemLeaders–Your organization's trusted partner for leader and team development. Visit our website to connect: belemleaders.org or book a discovery call today! belem.as.me/discovery
Until next time, keep doing great things!
All right. Well, welcome to Conversations, where today we are sitting down with Father Daniel Brandenburg. Did I say that correctly?
SPEAKER_01:You got it right. All right. Excellent.
SPEAKER_00:So how are you today? Because typically, and I'll I'll just pause here. Typically, I just I read a bio, I ask how you're doing. But I would love for you to just say to the audience, what's important for them to know about you? Because you have got a lot of education, you've held a lot of different roles. You have had what some people would call a health scare in their lifetime. So I would just love for you maybe just to give us a who are you, father?
SPEAKER_01:Gosh, I think most importantly, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. At the end of the day, that's it. You know, we all we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. And the most important thing is that we love God and we did all that we could with the you know the limited time and abilities that God has given us. And hopefully I've been a good son of the Lord, a good son of God. And and, you know, and he called me to be a Catholic priest, I'm a missionary, and and I love uh the mission that I have. It's so beautiful to be able to bring people closer to God and and touch the realities of people, not only here in Atlanta where I live, but also through my work with Catholic World Mission. I'm working with missionaries all around the world and helping the church and developing parts of the world, which is so cool. Gosh, so there's so there's so many ways I could develop here, Dr. Kelly. I don't know if you want to pull on one of those strings, but that's a simple introduction.
SPEAKER_00:You know what's interesting. I mean, when as soon as you said mission, I mean, we all have a mission field that we actually work on. And when you when you talk about maybe the mission work that you do, I'd like to think a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah. Well, I you know, from the time I was a little boy, I have always been drawn to missions. And I think that's why uh, you know, when I was thinking about the priesthood as a kid, I I for some reason I didn't feel drawn to being a parish priest, staying in in one place, but I felt like drawn to sharing the gospel, sharing the good news of Christ everywhere around the world. And I remember reading very distinctly, I remember reading a book when I was in fifth grade about missionaries, about Christian missionaries in Southeast Asia, particularly in Laos and among the Hamong people who were being persecuted for their faith. And it just stuck with me. And in fifth grade, I had to do a book report, and so I drew a picture of myself wearing a black cassock and serving as a missionary priest in Southeast Asia. Now, I've never lived there, but a month and a half ago, I actually went for the first time to Vietnam and right up to the border with Laos. And I was doing missionary work with a group of sisters there that work among the Hmong people. And I remembered that, you know, from that episode from fifth grade and that work. And it was just like a confirmation like the Lord has me on the right path, and I'm doing his work. So the Lord gives us little consolations like that now and then. And for the last eight years, I've been serving as the chairman of the board of directors for an international aid organization called Catholic World Mission. And we help the poor, the needy uh in over 35 different countries around the world. Many of those places were uh Christians are being persecuted. And so to be able, and mostly what we do is we partner with lay people, with sisters, with priests who are on the ground living with the people, working with them, who really know their realities. And so, in a certain sense, what we do is we help bring their dreams to completion, help facilitate them to do more and to do better for the people that they're serving in the local area. So that's you know, that just fills my heart with joy every time that I'm able to carry out that mission and continue this work that we're doing with Catholic World Mission.
SPEAKER_00:And it's so interesting how you, you know, you had that, you know, your your book report, and you had the history and the and the thought of, you know, how cool it would be. I could just see you as you know, like a little child, you know, and then the Lord brings that to fruition. And I love when he does that.
SPEAKER_01:It it is it's so remarkable. And you know, our own human ways would never arrive. Because I mean, how was I gonna arrive to be a missionary? We I you know, my community, the legionaries of Christ, we don't have a community in in Vietnam or in Southeast Asia. We have community in Manila and the Philippines and all in Korea, but not in Southeast Asia. And so it's just, you know, God's ways are just so amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, that's fun. I do like that. Well, I do know that uh I do have your book here, Leader Like No Other. We're gonna get into this in just a minute, but I want, you know, I was thinking about this morning as I was kind of preparing myself. And my my Christian walk started as a young child. My mother had us in Christian school, went to Catholic church. And, you know, when I think about as a young person and thinking about a priest and thinking about leadership, like there was a disconnection there for me. Like never really thinking a priest is a leader. And so I'd love just to sit there for a minute and and maybe talk about what is that, and maybe why is there a disconnect? If there is, maybe you've never heard that from anybody, but but I feel like experienced it. Okay, I'd love to go there then.
SPEAKER_01:I I think that there's a critical distinction that we have to make. Sometimes we fall into thinking that leaders are those who have a position, they've got a title. But actually, when you start looking at the leadership literature, that's a secondary thing that's interrelated with leadership, but it's not leadership per se. Leadership isn't about a title, it's not something you're born as a leader. You develop leadership qualities, and you're not really a leader unless people are following you. And so, yes, a position can help with that, but sometimes it's it actually can get in the way too. So, you know, as a priest, you take on a position of authority of Jesus Christ. And some people are better leaders as a priest, and other people are worse leaders as a priest. And unfortunately, over the years, I've met some really bad, you know, those who have been designated with the authority of the priesthood. Unfortunately, we even know cases of priests who have violated the trust of people in egregious ways. But I've also had the grace of meeting really extraordinary priests who are great leaders. And I've even had the chance to meet a couple of saints in my life who are now declared saints, like Saint John Paul II. You know, you think about like in the 20th century, is there anyone who has been more of a significant leader than John Paul II? Helped bring down the Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall, you know, reconciled nations, traveled the world. I mean, was seen by any other more than any other person in the 20th century. I mean, remarkable guy, a truly amazing leader. And so we can find examples of both bad and good within the priesthood. And I think that's perhaps part of the disconnect, you know, making this distinction between a positional leader and an actual leader, which is someone who exercises influence and and the right attitudes, behaviors that bring out the best in other people.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I think that goes across industries, right? You're gonna have good leaders, not so good leaders. And so thank you for for just reminding that because I think when people think of a priest, right? Somebody, a pastor, it it's like there is they should be a leader, right? Because they have a flock. Right. And hopefully that they're leading effectively and meeting people where they're at, and all those things that that leaders have to do. And I think just as that reminder that regardless of if you're a priest or if you are a CEO of a company or an executive director or wherever you are in that hierarchy, that it's important to remember, yes, you have a title, but it's more than a title.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And I think that's why the studies show, for example, that an a CEO is effective within a company for about 5.43 years statistically. And you can begin to rest on your laurels and think that, oh, because I've got the title, I'm I'm in charge, I'm a great leader. I'm sorry, but that's not the case. We know that from experience. You know, people decline in effectiveness as leaders when they start wrestling on their laurels and they stop doing the hard work of being a good leader.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. And so much does land on their shoulders. I mean, if you're not producing, you're gone. You know, next person is coming in for sure.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that sometimes, uh, Kelly, it leads to the ineffective leadership of some priests because you get ordained as a priest and we're, you know, a pastor in a Protestant church, and then well, you just keep going on, and you know, it's really hard to get fired as a Catholic priest. You know, you just kind of get, you know, we get a little bit complacent at times, and that's not good because Jesus warns us of that. The Old Testament in the book of Ezekiel, there's some excoriating remarks about the bad shepherds. And Saint Augustine has a whole series that he talks about the bad shepherds as well, which are you know a really stark reminder to any pastor that you don't rest on your laurels.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. That is right. Well, let's get into your book a little bit because I would love to hear like what brought about this book. It's called Leader Like No Other, what secular leadership models reveal about Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Well, and there's kind of a fascinating backstory, Kelly. So it's uh I'll share a little bit. I was, you know, doing my doctoral studies in leadership uh through Creighton University's interdisciplinary leadership program. And I loved it. It was great. You know, it started in 2019, finished up uh two and a half years ago. Yeah, two and a half years ago almost. And after finishing those four years of doctoral studies, defending my thesis, going to graduation, I was sharing with a few other priests what I had experienced, the insights and takeaways from those four years of studies. And it dawned on me that not once in those four years had we talked about Jesus Christ as a model of leadership. And I was like, Oh, how is that possible? I mean, just looking at a very superficial level, there is no leader in the history of humanity that has had as many followers as Jesus. No one has had the quality or caliber of followers of Jesus. I mean, men and women willing to lay down their lives for him in martyrdom or to give up family and go off as missionaries. I mean, no one comes even close. The power of his message, the balance of his leadership, the lasting weight of his message, which hasn't faded with time. There's just so many different factors we can say there is really truly no leader that compares to Jesus in the history of humanity. And we'd ignored him. And frankly, I mean, put it back on my squarely on my own shoulders. I kind of forgot about the example of Jesus and his leadership during those years of studies. And so it it introduced a follow-up question. All right, what would happen if we took the top 10 leadership models that have been developed in the secular world, which you know show that that you know, if you practice these things, it will lead to good outcomes from your organ for your organization. Well, what if we looked at those top 10 models and then see how Jesus stacks up against them? That's right. That's the whole book. And it was fascinating. I mean, I've been following Jesus my whole life. I, you know, I've grew up as a cradle Catholic and entered the seminary when I was 17. And I can honestly say, yes, I've always loved Jesus and followed Jesus, but this research opened my eyes to Christ in a whole new way and a much deeper appreciation and love for the Lord.
SPEAKER_00:That's good. I had a chance to flip through it a little bit, and I really like how it says Jesus meets the model, like in in the chapters, and how that how you pull that together. I'm like, yeah, oh yeah, he does meet the model.
SPEAKER_01:And surprisingly so. I mean, I go through each of these top 10 models, and again, these are the top 10 that I chose. You know, you could choose other models, right? And in and you could, you know, look at Jesus from that perspective. But quick presentation of the model to make sure we understand it. That's right. And then look at the evidence from scripture, from uh history to say, okay, does Jesus match this model? Does he live up to it? And uh, I found some really, really surprising things.
SPEAKER_00:I'd like to ask, it's just a publishing question. Your your book is not like a standard six by nine. So I'd love to know I'd love to know the size. How did you choose the size? And look at that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, there was a little bit of back and forth with the publisher because the publisher actually came back to me initially and said, Hey, we think that this might work better in kind of a workbook size format. And initially I was skeptical because like it might look kind of cheesy, you know, and people are expecting like a standard size book. And then the more I thought about it, the more I said, you know, that actually makes a lot of sense for two reasons. Number one, because the book has a lot of charts, it has diagrams and figures. And if you put those into a smaller format book, they get shrunken and it's harder to read them. And so going with a larger format allows for greater ease in reading those illustrations. And the second reason that I thought it was interesting is because I I intended this from the get-go as sort of a support text for a college level or high school level leadership course. And a lot of your textbooks are in a bigger format, and it gives a little more of that feel, like the academic feel to it. Now, I try to strike a balance here of being a book that just anyone could read that doesn't have to be like caught up in the academic side of things, or as a book that could function really well as a course uh for leadership within a a Christian or a Catholic high school or university. Hopefully I'd see that balance.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I think you did. And I and I like how at the end of the chapters that there are those reflection questions for people too.
SPEAKER_01:Questions for reflection, which you can deepen in the in the the ideas were shared in the chapter, but then also some exercises. Uh and this is something I haven't done in any of my prior books, putting in there exercises to develop your own leadership. That because you know how it is, Kelly. We read so many books, you know, you read through something, and then it, you know, it's in one ear, out the other, and you forget about it two months later. But when you actually reflect more as you're going through a book and then do some exercises around it, you retain more.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I'm just gonna read an example of an exercise. You've got to under personal exercises, ask one to three persons. I deeply trust in which quartile they would place our organization. Ask them to provide you feedback on how well you are applying the baseline behaviors and the quartile specific behaviors. So that's interesting because after the reflection, after they've read through the chapter, that all would make sense and to deepen things. Yes. Very good. Excellent.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's particularly important, Dr. Gillian, in in our AI world. Because, you know, we start to read a lot of these articles about the what are the effects on the human person of the use of artificial intelligence.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And what it's doing is it's diminishing our capacity to process things, to interiorize them, to really think. So we've we assume that because we have lots of information or AI has produced some quick questions or or summary for us that somehow we know that now, but we really don't. And so, in order to truly learn things, we we've got to mold them over, you've got to think about it, you've got to ask yourself questions, you gotta struggle to uh apply it, and that takes work. Uh so there's a little bit of work built into uh each chapter here.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and on that AI, yes, it can spit out a whole lot of information for a person, but it is so important to understand that it is just a tool in the toolbox that is not something that you should rely on, and that it does make mistakes, it is not a human being. God did not create AI, it it he created people who created AI, right? But it is not a human.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly right. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Well, let's get into working in leader in team development because we talk a lot about team dynamics, building a culture, and Jesus's team, the apostles, well, they weren't perfect in any way, not at all, right? Maybe even dysfunctional, right? We could say that in some respects. So, what can the modern leader learn from the way that Jesus recruited, trained, and managed his team, if you will?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think the first and most important lesson that we can learn is that uh Jesus spoke to the masses, he healed the multitude, but he lived with his disciples. Yeah, that is, he dedicated the bulk of his time. And this is really illustrative because Jesus is God, he's the second person of the blessed Trinity. He came on earth for a short period of time, 33 years. He spent the bulk of that in silence, in prayer, and simplicity of daily life in his home with his mother, his father until you know he passed. And and then he only spent three years of his life doing active ministry. And of that, the bulk was spent in working with these 12 guys, and one of them betrayed him. So I think a lot of times our our desire is to you know get out there and influence the world. But Jesus stayed in Palestine in a very restricted geographic area, and he worked with a small group of people primarily, and yet he's had the greatest impact in the history of the world. So I think that should instruct our own way of working with people. If you want to have a tremendous impact, you've got to work very deeply with those who can then replicate your impact. And you know, along these lines, Kelly, I think oftentimes of mothers of families. You know, that there's an old saying that comes from Latin, which is the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. You know, I I think of so many hidden uh housewives, mothers who are working and forming their children, raising their children, what a tremendous impact that they have on the world. And I think that as a society, we sometimes we've overlooked that. And you know, we've pushed you know, people to go out into the workplace or have a successful career is the terms that we use. And yet, is not doing one of the most important things and raising the next generation of children, one of the most important things we can do in a society. I mean, the role of a mother is irreplaceable. Uh, and I and I so I think those are a couple of lessons that we can draw out from how Jesus formed his apostles and and and allocated his limited time on earth.
SPEAKER_00:What would you say? Because they they were just everyday people. What would you say to like HR departments when they are looking at who to hire? Like, is there any indication there or does anything bubble up to you with a correlation between Jesus and how we do things today?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I think there's some certainly some lessons we could do. That's a great question, though, and I'd have to reflect on it more. But just on a quick response level, I think one of the key things that HR departments should look for is always cultural fit. We know that that's one of the key indicators for you know that you'll be successful within an organization or company. And I think that was one of the key things Jesus was looking for as well. And even he got it wrong. So if an HR department fails, you make a bad hire. I mean, Jesus had Judas. And frankly, only John was there at the foot of the cross, and uh 10 others, you know, abandoned him as well. So not a great track record for even for the most perfect man who ever lived. So we shouldn't be discouraged when there are misses in in hiring. We we just need to you know learn from those mistakes and move on. I think also we have to remember that it's not just about the hire, it's how we treat the people once we bring them in. The onboarding process, the helping them to understand the culture, to help them feel valued. And we know that one of the major reasons why people leave a company, number one reason, bad boss. Number two reason is because they don't feel valued or they don't feel like they have a pathward forward in their own development. And so it's not just about the hire, it's about how do you treat those people, how do you involve them in the mission, how do you make them feel valued and like they're doing something important. I mean, you look at the example of Jesus, you know, he didn't just go about doing everything himself. You know, like one came at one point in the formation of his disciples where he sent them out two by two. He wasn't with them, he sent them out and and he said, you know, go and preach the gospel and go and cast out demons and heal people. And they're like, What? Me? And and I I can't even imagine what what it must have been like when those disciples started coming back and swapping their stories of the amazing things that had taken place, and they felt like on top of the world. And so Jesus involved them in his mission in a very intimate and powerful way. And so I think, you know, looking at these two aspects of the hiring, but then also of the engagement of people once you brought them on, those are two really critical things we can learn from the example of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00:I agree there. And you know, you you started with culture and how important it is to invest in your people. So they are part of that culture. They feel part of the culture of the organization. And then take it a step further is I have heard more than one time where people are just terminated because with no training, no, this is, you know, you have three strikes in your none of that. And you're just terminated and you're sitting there wondering, what did I do? Right. No real exit interview. And I think that organizations need to commit to their people, not just when they're hiring them, but all the way through to the end.
SPEAKER_01:There's no doubt. And that's part of the culture of an organization. Do you want to have a culture of an organization which treats its employees like you know interchangeable cogs? Yeah or it treats them like human beings who have their strengths and weaknesses, they have their good moments, their bad moments, they have the capacity to grow and develop. Uh if we treat it as a zero-sum game, like these are you know non-changeable, they're just machines, that is a disrespect for the human person. And I think this is why it's so important that for companies to truly build a Christian culture that is exemplifying the dignity of the human person, that's drawing the best out of each individual, that's respecting them and helping them to grow. You know, there's a beautiful uh letter that St. John Paul II wrote on the dignity of human work back in the 80s, and it still holds true today. You know, work isn't just about producing, it's not just about making money. It is has much more to do with what how each one of us cooperates in the creative work of God, how we develop our skills and and leverage those for the good of others. And I think in if we were to have that perspective within our companies about the dignity of the human person, I think it would revolutionize the work world.
SPEAKER_00:Let's do it. I would love to see that letter. Where would I be able to find that?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it's easy to find. It's called in the Latin title is Laborum Exercens. It's A L A B O R E M. And then a space, and then the second word is exertions, E-X E R C E N S. So if you just do a search on the Vatican's website for laborum exertions, you'll find that letter, encyclical letter of uh John Paul II talking about the dignity of human work. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00:So good. I'm looking forward to reviewing that. Thank you. Yeah. For adding that. All right, let's see what else we have here. Again, on developing people. Okay, let's go here. So Jesus's method of leadership was and is for transformation versus just thinking about performance. So let's go there. Let's talk about that transformation versus just performance. So many people are always talking about high performing leader, high performing team. There's more to that, correct?
SPEAKER_01:There is so much more. And it ties back into what we were just saying about the dignity of human work. It's not just about production or performance. It's much more about the elevation of the dignity of the human person, about serving others. It's about elevating our society as a whole. And when we have that vision of human work, then we can we can and which we we can find in Jesus. I mean, what did Jesus do through his work? He he drew others into a mission, elevated their dignity, helped people to find the beauty of life and of eternal life. And so there's a much broader perspective than just producing widgets.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And you have there's value, right? Instead of always performance, I try to help leaders and teams understand what value are you adding to the team, to the organization as a whole. Because it can't be just about you have to have high performers. There's more to it than that. Because if you have all these other things before that, you will have high performers, high performee, but they will be adding value to whatever it is that they're attacking at that time.
SPEAKER_01:And along those lines, Philip, I remember a study that I read, uh, which was really fascinating. They did a test, and it was at uh I don't remember if it was MIT or University of Massachusetts, where they they actually made teams of graduate students, uh, but they they did different types of teams. So they did one team that was all kind of low-performing students and categorized as such. They did another team of all high-performing students, like all the you know, the type A's put together on a team. And then it did another team that was mixed. Guess which of the teams performed the best. Boy, tell me. The mixed team. Yeah, I would think so. It was so fascinating because it wasn't the high the high performers, they all got together and their egos got in the way and they couldn't, you know, they couldn't organize things well, and they were not as productive. And I think it's really interesting because when you have a mix of different talents and some people who are willing to take a backseat, be in a subservient role, or take the hidden roles that are important for an organization to succeed, then you have the glue that holds things together. And I think it's really important for people maybe who are a little more type A or flashier, to have the humility to recognize that these people over here are the key to their success. Uh and and so I think that that is really important that we value each person for what they're contributing. And you know, there's a lot of talk to it's kind of a fad talk about how diversity makes us better. And when they we were talking about that in my doctoral studies, I started looking into the data, and it's actually not true as a universal statement. Do you tell? So diversity it it it depends on what type of diversity we're talking about. Different types of people, different uh skill sets. Yes, that can make a team stronger and better, but But it's conditioned on cultural alignment and alignment in the goals. So if you have a diversity of end goals that you're aiming for, diversity destroys teams. If you have diversity of cultural expectations, or of you know, like expectations like what time you show up for work, or if you can come late for things, or if you can, you know, how you treat other people. If there's diversity in the culture in that regard, it can also destroy a team. So diversity understood correctly, yes, strengthens teams, uh, but understood incorrectly is totally destructive for teams.
SPEAKER_00:I love that you brought that up. And that there has to be clarity. Because when I think about diversity, I like to think about it in a team construct with jagged edges where, but they do have a common goal, they have common values, right? But they're coming together with their uniqueness and how God created them and coming together as a jagged edge team.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is precisely that you know, if you've got different uh ways of looking at things, different mindset, different skills, all that can be brought together if you have that united purpose and you can unite on the values which bring you together. But if you have one or two people that are not aligned with that, that's where you have serious problems within a team or organization.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
unknown:Awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Let's see what else we have here. How are we with time? We've got a little bit of time here. Let's talk about how about what what's important maybe that you would like people to take away from the book? Like what's something there to purchase your book, leader like no other, what secular leadership models reveal about Jesus? What really, what's your hope for this?
SPEAKER_01:That's a great question, uh Kelly. I I would hope for two things at least, and then each person can come away with their own as well. But first of all, I hope that people would come away with concrete and actionable things that would help them to improve their leadership, their organization, their team function, their parenting, their home life. Because looking at the life of Jesus and looking at these leadership models, it refreshes things that we kind of already know, but then brings us back into okay, how can I apply this in my life? And with anecdotally talking with people who have read the book, this one seems to be working pretty well. People are coming with concrete, concrete takeaways that are helping them to become better leaders. And my second hope with this book is that anyone who reads it is going to come away with a deeper appreciation for the singular leadership of Jesus Christ and open up their hearts and their minds to a greater acceptance of the singularity of Jesus Christ. I think looking at Christ in this perspective, and most people don't really think about Jesus topically as a leader. They think of him as a savior, they think of him as a great religious leader, they think of him as a historical figure. But looking at Jesus from the perspective of leadership, it's kind of mind-blowing a bit. And I hope that it will help people to appreciate Jesus Christ at a whole nother level.
SPEAKER_00:Looking at all the facets of Jesus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's right.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I remember in in my doctoral studies when I started thinking of that and bringing that in, it was required because it's a Christian university, read the requirement of bringing, you know, the biblical components into what we were writing about and things. And it was just very eye-opening. And so this book, I think, will be very helpful. And as you said, it's it's not it's not just for a specific just for students, right? Just for wherever you are on the higher, it's for anybody to pick up. It is for a parent, for them to be able to see themselves in here as well. And and having the the reflection to dig deeper and look and maybe have a mindset shift about how you've always thought about your own leadership, you as a parent as well. Because I we know that yes, parents are leaders, and we don't want to discount that. And we had that conversation earlier, but really being able to see ourselves as a leader, and then how are we aligning with how Jesus was a leader and really thinking about that because that can be powerful, especially if we are made in the image of God, right? And then how are we showing up in our everyday life for this? That's right. Yeah, that's good stuff. Good stuff. All right. I would love to give you the last word, Father Daniel. What do you say to our people here who are tuning in today?
SPEAKER_01:Uh very simply, lead like Christ. If you do, you'll you'll see tremendous success. You will see, you know, sometimes you'll be crucified like our Lord was, but that ends in glory. And I I think that when we look can lead like Christ, the people around us will feel engaged, enriched, uh, respected. We'll see greater achievement, but not just the building widgets type of achievement. The type of achievement, the type of success in which our world is a better place. There's greater respect for others, there's more peace, there's more serenity, there's less frenetic activity, there's more focus on what's truly important in light of eternity. That's right.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Nothing else is that.
SPEAKER_01:And that's why, you know, one of the things I I work with executives, business owners. A lot of my ministry is dedicated to working with them. And there are a lot of the people who you know gave reviews for the book and are reading the book and give me feedback and on how the book is helping them. And it's one of the things that I is really encourage these men that I'm working with to do is have daily time of prayer. Because through this, a book like this, I can you know influence a little bit with the people when when they're reading it. I can meet with these guys once a month and talk with them. But if they're meeting with Jesus Christ every day in prayer, they're reading scripture, they're comparing their actions, their attitudes to those of Christ daily in prayer, and and they're in contact with the second person of the Blessed Trinity who is all-powerful, God who can do all things in them, it has a whole lot more impact than just me as an isolated individual. And that would be part of my message to all of your listeners as well, Kelly, to take up that that challenge of a daily commitment to prayer, to listening to God, to speaking with him, to to allowing him to shape and mold our thoughts and our actions and our behaviors so that we can become more and more shepherds or leaders after the heart of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00:One thing though, because I'm going to bring you back here, is that I think people hear a lot, oh, you should pray, spend time, you know, with the Lord. But it is what I have found. The people who I work with, it can be difficult if they're, you know, of the Christian faith and we're going there, you know, within our sessions. It can be difficult for them to number one, understand that it is, you know, you're just you're communicating, you're just talking. It doesn't have to be the the thou and all this. It's like, what is your heart? But I think people have a hard time with thinking that they have to be in a box and pray a certain way.
SPEAKER_01:Have you there's so many different ways of praying, Kelly. And that it all ways that lead to Christ, all the ways that lead to God are legitimate. Okay. There are some forms of of uh prayer which probably don't lead to God that are more self-referential, you know, simply doing breathing exercises or something like that. It's not truly prayer, but prayer is entering into God. And there's so many different ways we can do that. It can and it and God has allowed for all those different ways because we have different personalities. And at different stages of our life, different forms of prayer will be more or less helpful. I love the fourth part of the catechism of the Catholic Church. That entire section is dedicated to prayer, different forms of prayer, different ways to enter into prayer, into that relationship with God. And there's some really great insights there in that fourth part of the catechism that I think each one of us can can leverage to improve our prayer. And it's it's really not hard to pray. I oftentimes use with people who are just starting off the pray acronym. It stands for praise, repent, ask, and yield. And you go through those four steps, you enter into a very natural conversation with God. It doesn't have to be formulaic prayers, which can help at different times, but it's more of that heart-to-heart conversation with God. Then, of course, we have the liturgy, we have uh songs, music that can reach the heart in a special way. We have communal prayer, praying together with other people, the liturgy of the hours. There's so many beautiful ways to pray, and it's not restricted to one, you know, one type of prayer. There's many beautiful ways to pray.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. He wants to hear from you, right? Wants to hear your heart.
SPEAKER_01:And and he wants to pour out his graces upon us, give us his strength and his blessings.
SPEAKER_00:And we leaders need that more than anything.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we do. The the work of leadership is hard, Kelly. Yes. I mean, it it requires really thinking critically about things, studying and researching, doing the hard work, you know, resolving conflict and addressing it, not just running away from it. There's leadership is really hard work. And and that's why I say to busy people who are leaders, you need prayer even more than other people do, because without God's grace, we can do nothing.
SPEAKER_00:That is right. That's a good word there, Father. And thank you for for coming on today and talking a little bit about your book and all these other things that we talked about around leaders and teams. I appreciate that. I appreciate the work that you're doing. People can find your book where?
SPEAKER_01:You can find it on Amazon. Pretty easy. Just do Amazon.com and then look for Leader Like No Other. And my last name, Brandenburg, and it should show up right away. You can also find it with a slightly discounted price on the Regnant Christie store at regnantchristie.com. And it's available on the bookstore there as well.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. All right, folks, you've heard it here with Father Daniel Brandenburg. I appreciate you. Until next time, you keep doing great things, and we'll see you soon. Bye bye. Thank you, Kelly.