E94. Power Literacy: The Leadership Skill No One Teaches but Everyone Needs w/ Kisha Wynter

We sit down with executive coach Kisha Wynter to name the leadership skill almost no one teaches: power literacy, the ability to navigate organizational power dynamics and build influence without formal authority. Kisha breaks down the mystery of why top performers still get stuck and how plugging “power leaks” helps leaders speak up, advocate for their teams, and drive enterprise impact. Plus, we explore and discuss:

• power literacy as a core leadership competency beyond hard work and expertise 
• why cross-functional influence determines promotions and initiative traction 
• the shared responsibility between leaders and organizations to build this capability 
• reframing power as values-based and generative rather than destructive 
• power leaks as learned survival responses, not personal failure 
• common leaks like hesitation, over-accommodation, weak boundaries, and avoiding visibility 
• practical ways to plug leaks through preparation, speaking early, and voice practice 
• decoding the visible org chart versus the invisible influence web 
• “who influences the influencers” and why decisions happen before meetings 
• framing, trigger words, and adapting language to organizational context 

Find this dynamic leader on LinkedIn by @Kisha Winter, or on her website, yourpoweronleashed.com.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

SPEAKER_01 0:01

All right, well, welcome to Conversations, where today we have Keisha Winter, who is an executive coach, author, and speaker with over 20 years of experience inside Fortune 50 companies, including GE and Citibank. She partners with senior leaders and executives to strengthen resilience, expand enterprise influence, and navigate complex organizational power dynamics. Having coached leaders across more than 50 countries, Keisha is known for helping high-performing executives surface and dismantle hidden success inhibitors, often rooted in legacy patterns that limit scale, impact, and decision quality. Her work enables leaders to build durable influence, scale leadership capacity, and deliver results at the enterprise level. Welcome to the show. How are you today, Keisha?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Doing very well, Kelly. Fantastic. It's great to be on the show. I'm happy to have you here. Where are you coming to us from? I'm in Stanford, Connecticut, about 45 minutes north of New York City.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Right. Busy, busy there, or tell me about the area.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

The area is very suburban or metropolitan. So it's close to the city, but you know, we get to have the beach and the calmness. So yeah, it is a little busy, but not crazy. It is not New York. So where you call home right now, right? Where I call home and I love it. It is the spring, and the weather is getting beautiful, and the flowers are coming out, and everything is blooming. So including you and your business. Including me and my business. Thank you.

What Power Literacy Means

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yes. Well, today you are coming to us with a phrase that might be new to some leaders that is power literacy. So let's get into the what is power literacy and then the why behind it. So what is this power literacy that you so often talk about?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah, I love that you bring that up. You just dive straight. I talked, I talk it about it as a leadership leadership competency that determines whether or not you succeed in corporate, but literally nobody teaches about, right? What we learn in organizations is that, and we're rewarded for this, especially early or even mid-career, that we work hard, right? Work hard, perform, deliver results, build expertise, and automatically advancement will follow. But unfortunately, people don't understand that there are power dynamics that you have to be able to learn to navigate through to help you not just advance professionally, but also to create impact within your organization. So if you're delivering results, but you're not able to influence people across other functions, you're not able to gain traction on your initiatives, or even if you're a leader, you're not able to properly position the people on your team so that they can advance and get promoted themselves, you'll get stuck professionally. So I say power literacy is really learning how to function across the organizations to influence people, especially those that don't necessarily report to you. Right. So it's it's more systemic, it sounds like it's learning how power works. Wow. Really be able to navigate organizational structures to be able to initiatives and your career to advance.

Why Results Alone Stall Careers

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah. I I think so many times people within organizations, they're thinking about just their little corner of the world and never really expanding that and why it's important. So why do you feel that power literacy is it's a missing competency, as you say, within leadership today?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, because in most organizations, they really, and you know, I have over 20 years of experience resources. And most organizations, they're all about the bottom line, right? So delivering results and meeting your targets are really important. But how you do it is not really explained. And a lot of the times in order to push initiatives forward, you're not just influencing the people on your own team. You have to work cross-functionally across departments, especially in complex situations where there are competing priorities. And so, for example, if you're working in HR and you know you want to improve employee morale, for example, or you're working on a compensation project, but you want to change behavior. It's not just about like, do I get this budget approved so that we can push merit increases forward? It's really understanding how you want to drive behavioral changes across functions. And so maybe in HR, people are thinking about how do we engage people in the organization effectively. And so they're thinking more about the interpersonal skills. But somebody in the sales functions really they're focusing on how do I bring in revenue? And that requires a different skill set of driving, of hitting the pavement, of talking to clients. But these sales leaders may not, you know, maybe under skilled in terms of how they use inspiration, for example, to influence their team, which ultimately impacts whether or not the people on their team are going to be motivated and driven to bring additional revenue in the organization. And so it's really understanding what really influences and impacts people to move across the organization rather than what you want them to do. It's really breaking things down in a way that's going to resonate and inspire them to move. And so that's why I say powerless literacy is really important because it's not just about getting the things done, it's about how you do it and whether or not you're able to bring people along with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

So who's responsible maybe for the thought of power literacy within an organization?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Go ahead. I think it's two ways. I think, first of all, it's an individuals have to be aware because when you get stuck in your career and you're like, you know what? I'm doing all the things that they're telling me to do. I am hitting my numbers, delivering results, doing all the things that I'm supposed to be doing, but there is something that's missing that's stopping me from advancing. And you may not be able to finger point what that thing is. And so taking a step back and saying, you know what, like maybe earlier in my career, me, you know, having deep domain expertise in my function, for example, if you are, I'll talk about, you know, NHR, you're really good on designing a training course, or you're really good on whatever you're working on from a recruiting standpoint. But when you want an initiative to be pushed through through the organization, you have to convince the finance person. You've got to convince the people in sales, in operations. And so, how do you position it in a way that is gonna, it's gonna, it's they'll walk away saying that, you know what, this is important to me as well. And so, from an individual standpoint, assessing whether or not you're able to influence people across the organization that don't necessarily report to you or you don't have immediate authority over is a really hard concept, real or skill set, I should say, to develop. And you may not be able to know what it is. You're like, but I'm doing all the things, I'm working harder. I'm like, yeah, but you're working harder, the wrong skill set. So that's one. But it's not just an individual thing, it is also an organizational thing as well. So organizations need to understand that maybe they've been approaching leadership development from a place of let me help develop executive presence and strategy and communication, but they're not really focusing on what, how do people move out of working in their silos and really walk cross-functionally effectively? And if if HR or the leadership team is not able to build the competency in these people, then the you know, leadership was stalled. It would eventually impact the effectiveness of the organization. And finally, the bottom line, decisions. For example, decisions across functions may get stuck, priorities may not be pushed forward because there's a lot of organizational complexity, and and leaders are not understanding how to effectively navigate that. And so that is when it becomes not just an individual issue, but it's really a leadership development problem, which I think leadership team owns, not just HR.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

So it sounds like very being intentional, you know, with a skill set, being able to adapt and learn and all and grow within a skill set of that. And also looking at it, it sounds like to me from what you're saying, is look at it as a strategic objective. Like it can be very strategic if your organization then is looking to be intentional with it, you know, add that to our strategy. This is our strategy, this is how we do things.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of it is, I mean, when you think about influencing, a strategic influence in particular, it becomes more and more important as you ascend the ranks within an organization. You're really not expected to just know your function. You're expected to be able to navigate across the entire enterprise and become more of an enterprise thinker rather than a specialist within your function. Within your, when, you know, when you're when you're below the manager level or even at the mid middle management level, you are focused on developing the expertise and the functional competencies. But the higher you go up in an organization, you now you begin to think at the enterprise level. And so all of this is happening in most organizations. The problem is that we are not actually naming it. And we're saying, okay, this person is really good at what they do, but maybe they don't have the influence and skills, maybe they don't have the executive present, but we're really not naming what the problem is. And that's why I developed the phrase power literacy to really help you understand that this is really a competency that you have to build as you grow within your career and advance within an organization.

Using Power Without Losing Values

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Excellent. And it also sounds like with what you were sharing today, is that typically we think about power in a negative way, right? Using power in a negative way, but this is a very positive way to be using power and embracing power for the organization and for yourself as an individual.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, it really is. I talk about the fact that power is not good or bad, it is how you use it that determines what it is. So before engaging power, you really have to define what power means to you, right? So because we've we've witnessed negative impacts of power in our organizations or in our society, we may be shrinking back, or certain individuals may shrink back and reject using power itself. But I talked about a lot about aligning usage of power and anchoring that in your values. So, what does that mean? You don't want to use your power to punish others or even to violate your ethics. You want to be clear that the power that you're using is really generative rather than destructive.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

And so using it, using it for good, good. So, for example, one of my core values as a leader is really about how do I contribute to the profession or the career to have other people's advance? Contribution is a big value of mine. And so if I'm a leader in an organization, I'm not using power just to advance myself. I'm using my power to advocate for the people on my team and to use that effectively. And that may, that may require me to develop skill sets to influence across the organization so that I can advocate effectively so that the person on my team can be advanced. Because if I don't develop this advocacy skill set, the people on my team will suffer because they may be doing the best work ever. But because I can't articulate the impact of their work, I'm not going to be able to effectively advocate for them and contribute to their professional and even their personal growth in the best way that I could. And so I think about it as not destructive but generative, but it has to be. Power can be used for good or evil. And one of my themes as a coach is ensuring that good people are in positions of leadership so that more good can be done in the world. And so instead of stepping back from saying, I don't want to engage in power because we've seen how power has been corrupted, I want us to reframe that and say, actually, my power is going to be grounded in contribution or whatever my value is, so that not only can I benefit, but the people around me and my organization can benefit as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

It's a lot of reflective work that has to happen. It sounds like.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yes, it is. And, you know, as you know, this as a coach, the most effective leaders are the ones that are taking a step back and they're reflecting like, what do I want the impact of my leadership to be? What is the legacy that I want to leave going forward? Because at some point you get to a certain level, and yes, you have the money, you have the income that you want, you're able to provide for your family. All the basic things on that Maslow's hierarchy are met. And then now you get to the top of the hierarchy around, you know, actualization, not just self-actualization, but actualization of others. And I know most people, you get to a certain point. It's like you're no longer in fight or flight or survival mode. Now you want to leave an impact that's bigger than yourself. And that is what I always come back to to reground and say, okay, I'm not just going to do my job as a leader. It's a what is the purpose? Why am I here? What's the impact that I want to make?

Power Leaks That Drain Authority

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Absolutely. And that does take getting quiet and really reflecting as a leader. And that should be part of a leader's journey is taking that time and you know, getting a coach to help you on that road of reflection. Absolutely. Excellent. Well, let's talk about these power leaks that you talk about. So tell us what are these power leaks? And then maybe some common power leaks that you have. Let's hear about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

So I call power leaks as these unconscious patterns that really drain our agency, it limits our influence, it dilutes our authority. And the reason I call it power leaks, a lot of people will call it self-doubt, lack of confidence, um, imposter syndrome, which is so overused and so common, right? I mean, people talk about all these, but it assumes that something, especially the word in syndrome, it implies that something is wrong with you. That's right. And I reframe that to say that power leaks are not personal failures, really, that they're rational responses to social friction that people encounter when they're stepping up and they're using their power. So I'm saying step into your power, become power literate, assert and own your authority. But depending on the culture of the organization that you're in, also depending on your demographic background, depending on where you were working, or even the function or the field that you're working in, people may be feel backlash or penalized. So, as for example, women in the workplace, when they step up and they are a little bit more assertive in certain companies, not all, it's not rewarded, it's actually penalized and you're, you know, called, you know, mean words, like you know, the B word and and all of that. And and so instead of really beginning to develop the skill set to step into your authority, you come into a fight or flight, a survival trade-off where you shrink in order to navigate the tension that you feel. And so the reason I reframe it, it's it's really to make you realize, you know what, you're you're doing this not just because something is wrong with you, you're doing it because you may have noticed that when you utilize this power that you already have, there may be negative response to it. And a lot of it could happen with social conditioning based on how we were raised. Like, you know, when I was brought up, you know, my in my culture, when I was brought up, I was told that children just to be seen and not heard. I don't know if your parents told you that when you were grouped.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

My parents did, yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Right? Children is to be seen and not heard, but then you get into corporate and it's like, own your voice, be assertive, speak up. And it it activates this real discomfort within our body because we haven't normalized owning our voice and stepping up. So your leader may come to you and say, What's your perspective on this? And you don't want to push too hard because you may not consciously remember what it was to be silence, but your body in your DNA, your your body remembers it. And so now you're like, oh my God, something is wrong with me. I'm not, I don't have confidence. No, it's not a lack of confidence, it is because you have learned to silence yourself. And so that's why I reframe it because I don't want to put the power, the blame on the individual. And so, what does it look like? It may be hesitation to speak up. I just implied that. It may be over-accommodation with certain things, not being willing to set boundaries, discomfort with promoting your work, or speaking about the impact that you're doing. And so that's really how it shows up. These are what I call power leaks, could be mostly unconscious and a lot of times also conscious patterns.

unknown 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

And and you alluded to this, and and I don't know what research says, but I would think that women, females have more of this than the male counterpart.

Plugging Leaks With Practice

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah. Yeah, I would say generally speaking, in speci in the specific context that we're talking about, because women have not historically been rewarded for speaking up, stepping into their power. As a matter of fact, in many ways, there's been backlash around that. And we and we see it, even if it hasn't happened to us, we turn the TV on, we see a woman leader that you know we know of, a politician or a corporate leader, and they're more powerful. And you see how generalist society reacts to them. And so even if we don't experience individually, it's we see other people receiving the penalty of it, and we receive the message internally, oh, be careful. Because if you're like her, this is what's gonna happen. And so I want to name it because I think it's really important to understand that it's not just what you feel, it's based on what you're acting in a way to preserve yourself. It's really survival mechanism. And so the first step really is that identifying where it comes from, and then, you know, training yourself to really begin to own your voice, begin to own your power, taking little steps so that you can begin to build that competency rather than consistently silencing yourself. Because it's one thing when other people silence you, but it's a totally different ball game. And we're more damaging, in my opinion, when we silence ourselves. Right. Yeah. So we need to like plug the leaks. Plug the leaks. I say plug the leaks, and a lot of it in we are coaches, it goes back to the first thing is mindset. So I'll give a perfect example. I had a client that she came from a toxic work environment. And her and I, you know, she was constantly spoken over. Leaders that she worked with, you know, basically lack of integrity, took the work that she did and took credit for it them themselves, you know, didn't reward her for all of her hard work. I mean, years of going through this. So we were coaching, we coached together, and she left that organization and came into a new work environment. And when she was in this new work environment, she had a really this leader hired her and was super supportive of her, but she would not speak up in certain situations and in certain meetings. And actually, she was also a manager herself, and so she had some, I would say, really insubordinate people that worked under her as well. And she wouldn't complain to her manager because, again, from the toxic environment, everything that happened was her fault. And so she really wasn't stepping up into her full potential as a leader. And I said to her, I said, Look, you're operating off old trauma. You haven't really stepped into this role and really tested. The environment to see whether or not those behaviors that you were penalized for there, whether or not it's going to be celebrated here or not, right? If it's going to be rewarded here or not. And I said, we've got to take one step at a time. I need you to one begin to before meetings, really think through. And she's a very smart person, but we had to go take a step, think through what are the points you want to make. Like practice them before and go in and try to speak up early. Don't wait till the end because one, you may miss the opportunity, but opportunity, but the longer you wait, is the more nervous you get, right? So we worked on that. And she was again, the leader was so supportive of her. Oh my God, we didn't think about it like this. This is how we're going to update our strategy accordingly. And she was totally rewarded. And on the flip side, with the people that were reported to her, reporting to her, when we talked about how do you manage the situation? I'm like, proactively speak to your manager, the one over one, and bring it to the leader. And actually, when she brought it, to be honest, she didn't even have to bring it because that leader approached her first and said, you know what, I've noticed a different difference in the behavior with the leaders reporting to you as a woman, versus when they had the prior person who was actually underperforming in the role and he happened to be a male. And I do think that a lot of this has to do with them not respecting your role as a female leader. And he basically had a whole conversation with HR and her, and they resolved the issue. One person was put on a performance improvement plan and they turned around and everything is fine, and the other person was exited because, you know, like he is she's a female leader. She can't become a man. So if you don't respect me, then like you're and you're insubordinate and you don't belong in the organization. But I tell that story because she was again having a lot of power leaks based on the old situation she was experiencing. And I want to be very clear, every organization and every leader is not going to be like this. But if you experience it one time in your life or in your career, you may not update the software in your brain. And you continue to act the old way and shrink yourself and it reduces your impact. And as a result of me and her working together, not only did she step up in her power and contribute at higher levels, it allowed her to continue to be advanced in that organization. So she got promoted from director to VP within a year within a year. So it's really important because it really impacts the effectiveness of the organization, but our effectiveness as leaders as well, if we learn how to stop the leak, the leakage. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yes. And practice is so necessary. Hearing your voice come out here and continually practicing the words that you want to say, the points that you want to make. There is power in that. And whether it's, you know, as you said, whether it's in a coaching session where, you know, you're you're helping that leader through that practice, or whether they're doing it there in session and then on their own, you know, in front of a mirror or whatnot, so they could hear themselves. Sometimes I have clients record themselves so they can actually hear their voice.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Hear your voice, use your voice, practice. I I love that. That recording is really good. Practicing it in person with a coach, writing it down, you know, getting a workbook. You know, we'll talk about the fact that I have a book called Your Power On Leash. And I give a lot of tactics on how to begin to plug up our, you know, the or stop the leak, I should say.

The Invisible Map Of Influence

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Very good. Excellent. Excellent. Well, let's continue on here. Let's talk about how leaders build strong aligned teams while increasing their strategic impact within the organization. So, what does that look like about the building and aligning teams? And you you've kind of had this thread going through the conversation already, but maybe put it all together here, what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah. So the first thing when you think about taking this at a team level, it's really understanding the vision and the mission as a leader that you have for your team. Because at the end of the day, your team has to understand what's the purpose of the team, right? That's the most important thing. And how that officially maps to the overall strategy of the organization. What's the contribution that each person is going to make to your team? And then what does the team, what's the team's impact on the overall organization? And when we think about, you know, bringing it back to influencing, right, as a skill set and really helping your team, if you have people that are reporting you, to understand how to develop the skill set around influencing, it's looking at I call it the visual organizational map, and then the invisible one.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

This this is this is how when we talk about power literacy, like in every organization, there's context, and you have to understand the context in your organization to increase your effectiveness. So I talk about decoding the map, right? So beyond the personal, beyond your leakage of power, once you own your power and you own your voice, the next step is that you have to be able to influence relationally. So this is this is relational power. That's the second step. And then I'm going to bring it to the organization. The relational power is all right, like if I want to influence you, I said I talked about it before, I have to understand what's important to you and reframe my message in such a way that you're going to want to buy into it and you're going to want to support it. Because if I only come to you with an initiative or a proposal or a project as something to work on and articulating in a way that's going to be important for just my organization and my team, then you over there in finance are not, you're not going to be inspired or want to engage. And so from a relational, relational standpoint, you have to understand how to position things in a way that people are going to be like, oh yeah, this is going to benefit me too, right? But once you're, once you establish that, the next level is what we're talking about, the team and the organizational level and understanding, right? If you want to influence in a room, people usually wait until they get to the room and they they present their talking points or they put up their PowerPoint slide on the page. But a lot of times decisions are made before you even get in the room. So what's the invisible map? It's asking questions like who influences the influencers? Like who is actually listened to in the room, regardless of the rank. And it may not be the most senior person in the room. It may not be the, I don't know, CEO of the company. It may be the executive assistant or it may be their finance VP. And a lot of times, you know, people be talking and you'll see the leader look at someone or listen to what the leader is, you know, the leaders listen to what somebody else is saying. And boom, if you're paying attention, you realize, oh, yeah, the person that influences the true decision maker is the person you have to influence first. So again, asking your your your yourself the question who influences the influencers? That's one. Were you gonna say something?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

No, I'm just saying that's so true. Everything that you just said, I've seen that work time after time.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

And you're like, what am I doing wrong? And I'm like, it's it's not understanding that decisions are truly made in the meetings before the meeting. These private pre-meetings are happening and you don't know. And so it's taking a step back and really understanding not the latter, right? But it's more of a web. Yes. And really decoding that. And then also understanding, like, even as a business owner myself, when I do presentations to organizations, I have an organization that I'm working with them to bring in a leadership development program. And I'm working with their HR leader, their CHRO. And she says, okay, don't use psychological safety. And I'm like, what? Don't use emotional intelligence. Like, we're, yes, you're gonna train on all those words, but those words will definitely trigger resistance, right? So understanding what framing is going to trigger resistance and what is going to increase the likelihood of your initiative being championed. So it's one, understanding who is influencing the room, but also two, understanding the language that's important. So in that in this situation that I'm talking about, they don't want to hear all the HR terms. They want to understand, right? Like if we train our leaders on this, how do how does this help us differentiate our leadership team against the competition, right? So it's this competitive differentiation because you have specific leadership skill set. How is this gonna help us bring in more different more differentiation and more business for our organization? So instead of using the lab, all the skill set that I'm gonna teach, those defined. Yeah, it will still still be psychological safety. It will still be all the things. I just can't use that word because it's gonna trigger resistance. And as somebody with an organization, you have to know what those trigger words are and what those buy-in words are as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah, and that takes communication, it takes communication, conversations, listening, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Hearing what is being said, all those crucial skills, observation, paying like if you're new to an organization, you might not know yet. And so you may have to ask people, like, and even when I was preparing for my you know presentation with this leader, I asked HR person, I was like, okay, what like what should I not say and what's gonna work? And then she was she luckily asking the right question. She's like, All this HR language, do not use it. I'm like, okay. Whereas in another organization, the exact same word used because actually psychological safety was one of their key competences that they wanted to build because innovation was such a big, what do you call it, uh, thing for them, a big value that they knew that if they didn't have psychological safety, the innovation would be reduced. But they were much more advanced. Their leadership team was much more advanced than this other organization. So I was just like, she's like, do not use that language. And so it's not about right or wrong, it's about understanding the context that you're in and decoding that for the organization. So that may include, as I said, talking to other people, also paying attention to who are the most influential people in the room. What are they saying? What's the language that they're using? And how is how is your positioning different different from yours? What best practices can you learn from them and apply it to your language so that you can get your initiatives pushed across? But again, that's only when you're in the room. We also have to do the work before you get to the room, which we talked about.

Key Takeaway And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Good stuff, Keisha. Wow, oh my gosh. From the beginning, what does power mean to you? Talking about these unconscious patterns and power leaks, about asserting your own authority, decoding your map, dot, dot, dot, all these things that you brought today. So enlightening. And I'm sure that that the audience is really going to be taking. I'd be taking notes if I was listening to this, as I was taking notes myself here. But good, good stuff. And I would love to give you the last word. What say you?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

You know, I say to people, high performance is what keeps you employed, but it's power literacy that determines whether or not you advance. And so developing the ability to influence is going to make a big difference in your career trajectory. How can people get a hold of you? They want to connect with you, Keisha.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

They can find me on LinkedIn by my name, Keisha Winter. So K-I-S-H-A, W-Y-S-N-E S N-T-E-R, because people always get the spelling wrong, or on my website, your poweronleashed.com. And I also have a book of the same name called Your Power Unleashed, and that's available everywhere. Books are sold on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

And is it also on your website if people want to check?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

It is also on my website. So you're go to yourpoweronleashed.org and they can buy it on my on my website as well. It's all available. And by the time this airs, I should have an audiobook of it. Uh, because that should be coming out in two weeks. So by the time this airs, you will also be able to order the audiobook and listen to it in your car.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Well, congratulations, Keisha, on that. And thank you for joining me today on Conversations for Leaders and Teams. And until next time, you keep doing great things, and we'll see you soon. Thank you.