E96. How Leaders Build The Conditions For People To Flourish w/ Scott Mitchell & Dr. Aidin Brown

In this episode, Scott Mitchell and Dr. Aidin Brown explore what it really means to flourish at work and why thriving is less about chasing outcomes and more about building the conditions for healthy growth. We connect personal purpose to team dynamics and organizational culture, then get practical about trust, belonging, and the kind of leadership that strengthens people instead of draining them. 

You'll here about:
• defining flourishing as holistic thriving and purposeful living 
• separating success and achievement from the ongoing process of flourishing 
• using pruning as a model for growth through hard seasons 
• building conditions for flourishing through psychological safety and trust 
• spotting “not flourishing” through micromanagement and low safety 
• distinguishing flourishing teams through belonging and high-quality interactions 
• moving from compliance to commitment as a sign of healthy culture 
• recognizing organizational markers like collaboration, tone at the top, and clear accountability 
• treating employee development plans as real growth paths, not box-checking 

Visit Scott @ breakthroughcoaching.life, or on LinkedIn. GS Mitchell-N P O B T. 
You can find Dr. Aidin Brown @  www.monhars.us, and on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Conversations, where today we are welcoming in Scott Mitchell and Dr. Aidan Brown to explore what it means to create conditions where people, teams, and organizations have the opportunity to flourish. So welcome in you two. How are you today, Aiden and Scott?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Doing good. I'm doing good. Thanks for asking. Thanks for asking. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah. I'm just looking forward to the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Me too. Me too. Because this is it's it's always enlightening when I have leaders like the two of you come on and we really start exploring uh around like this topic of flourishing. But first, I'd like maybe for you to take a moment and just give the audience a high view, who you are, what you do professionally, and let us know where you're coming to us from today. So who'd like to start?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

So Scott Mitchell, and I currently live um just south of Cleveland, so Northeast Ohio, where we're right in the middle of spring. And so what I do is I am an executive coach and CFO advisor, specifically in the faith-based arena. So I've been 40 years. It's amazing to think, okay, 40 years in ministry. Working with churches, working with small to medium to larger nonprofits, ministries, and just really enjoy this space as a CFO. I do have a CPA license too, so I've got a little stint there.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

All right. Well, thanks, and welcome, Scott. Dr. Eden Brown.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

All right, welcome back. I'm here in thank you. I'm here in Central Florida, Orlando, Florida. And I serve many, I wear many hats. I must say I am Jamaican. So one thing we say in Jamaica is that I'm a I have I'm on track of all trades. So a little bit I serve as executive chairman for Mona's Enterprise right here, president for the Association of DSL Professionals, and president for Sapphire Life, which is a nonprofit organization that we have here in Central Florida. I'm looking forward to the discussion on flourishing because this is something that has pinked my interest. And one of the things that we'll be looking at, we recently launched, well, launched Mona's Jamaica Limited back in Jamaica. And part of what we're doing, we're going to be doing leadership workshops and all of that. And we're going to be targeting the justice of the peace, which is more of a volunteer role in Jamaica. And I going to be looking at well, introducing flourishing as well because the event is going to be an executive servant leadership luncheon.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Oh, congratulations!

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Thank you. You don't let any grass grow under your feet. You are always going, going, going.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

I need to get some, make sure I'm getting some rest.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yes, that's right. Well, thank you for taking the time as well and coming in and talking about this conversation about flourishing.

What Flourishing Looks Like

SPEAKER_02 3:22

And you know, flourishing is one of those words where I don't know, you don't always hear it. Right. I I feel like it's one of those words that maybe is an older word, or maybe it's a new word, and we're just maybe, you know, people are kind of grappling with flourishing a little more. Many times it's attached to well-being, is what I've, you know, been reading and whatnot. So I'd love to hear from both of you. And Scott will we'll give uh Aiden just a minute to rest a minute after his technical debacle. Uh, and when you think about when you think about flourishing, what comes to mind for you when you hear that word flourishing?

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Okay, so I'm just gonna do a riff off of the fact that I'm in northeast Ohio and we're in the middle of spring. So I'm a hiker. It's what we like to do. And so getting out on a trail and seeing the forest begin to flourish, and all of a sudden, all the leaves and just the green that comes from with the new leaves. So they're not dead leaves, they're new leaves forming on the trees, on the trees, and life is beginning again. And you see small flowers, you see the butterflies, you see birds that are migrating through, and you've got this flurry of activity. And to me, when you ask that question, that's where my brain went was out on a trail. Nice, everything's fresh, it's new, and it's alive.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yes, and it's alive. Excellent, Dr. Brown. What about you? What do you think about when you think of the word flourishing?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

When I saw that question, I actually made notes of all of these so I can don't forget. I remember I was in Canada last October for my niece's graduation. And it's interesting that when you were younger, you used to get these postcards, and it had all these scenery on the postcards. And I remember seeing those cards and to actually see the the trees that surrounding the environment in Canada, where all the trees are just flourishing in their in their colors and their blooming. For me, I'm like, huh, it's where for people living and working in ways that allow them to thrive intellectually, emotionally, socially, physically, and purposefully. Because that's the greatest thing. Because I believe if you're living in your purpose, then what's it say is, but each of us have a purpose, and flourishing is about becoming the fullest version of oneself for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yes. So I love the connection there between the forest and the trails and the blooming, and we have the people blooming, right? And living and living. Oh, do I hear an echo? Do I hear an echo? Or is it just is it just me that hears an echo?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Let's see. No, you're magic.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Let's see. I don't hear it now. Come back. We'll just cut that out. Synology. We give grace. So let's let's continue on this this trail of flourishing, of thriving, of blooming, of living.

Success Versus Flourishing

SPEAKER_02 7:24

And when we think about that, let's think about success and achievement. So let's think about maybe leaders in that capacity, or you know, individuals. It doesn't have to be leaders, but individuals in that capacity. So how is flourishing maybe different than success and achievement, if at all?

SPEAKER_01 7:47

That that's an interesting one, and I'll maybe I'll I'll jump in, Scott. It's because I made note of that because when I saw that, I'm like, hmm, success and achievement. Yeah, because you can be moving and you're not getting anywhere. So for me, success and achievement are often outcome focused whereby they measure what a person has done, earned, or attained. Rather, flourishing, however, is process focused and holistic. Person can be successful on paper. And uh some conversations we'd have before that away, and where some people still have their degrees just wrapped up in their frame and wondering what's going on, but yet still they feel exhausted and disconnected. Right. Like what is my purpose? Why am I doing this? So that's that's my take on that one.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Yeah, thank you. What about you, Swan?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Well, that that kind of connects into what I was thinking in that question, is I think of John 15, where it talks about he is the branch, we are the vine. And you know, unless we're truly abiding in Christ, we are not gonna flourish. We're gonna be that dead branch on the side of the trail. And where I see success and achievement is I see those as results of flourishing and abiding. So as when we're talking about our souls, right? My soul will flourish when I learn how to abide in him and I stay in that place, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

And you know, I never see flourishing as like a destination where you flourish and you're done, right? Just like you know, the branches, right? You're you're clipping, so there's new growth. And that's how I I look at it as a a process. So although, as you said, we can have success and we can attain things, but we always have to be maybe even asking ourselves in these, where did I flourish? How did I flourish? What created the attainment and the success?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Right. And and and if I if I may add that, Dr. Wilan, these two questions came to mind when I was thinking about the success and um achievement is achievement when you when you ask yourself, achievement is basically what have you accomplished versus uh flourishing apps, how well are you living and becoming? And you mentioned something just earlier that draw my uh my mind to this. And as the truth grows, you have to clip, clip, clip, clip, and it it grows more and branches come out, and it's got to talk about the connection. And people, some people might think or feel that for them to grow, they have to be stuck in one place or one shape or form, but flourishing is in many different shapes and forms when we look at the trees, the branches.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

And if I can continue with that, you're talking about pruning, right? For it's not just allowing growth without structure or for no reason, but you know, we we require as human beings to be pruned at times to go through difficult times. Yes, and the difficult times I've noticed it doesn't mean I've stopped flourishing, right? Because I'm still abiding. It's just uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable, but after that, then more fruit, more success, more achievement comes. It's the result of the pruning, but it's the remaining abiding during that time of stress and growth. And so when we talk about personal, but even organizationally, yeah. Sometimes the breakthrough comes after really hard seasons and times in an organization where pruning has to happen, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah, and there are conditions, right? Everything there the conditions need to be right. So even when you're pruning, right? And going through

The Conditions That Help People Thrive

SPEAKER_02 12:43

that. So what might be the conditions that need to exist for people to flourish? And that's you know, maybe personally, professionally. What does that look like? What might it take?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

And and as we've pruned the tree, the tree has as we think about pruning, we don't just go start cutting a tree. There's a strategy to this, and you have to be skilled at doing it. And what's the purpose of tribbing the tree, of pruning the tree? What's the meaning behind it? And when you look at it from a human standpoint, psychological safety. If I step out, if I go out, if I do this, is the if I clip this part of the tree, would it fall over here? What will happen if you go that side? And and and along the process, we'll look at what growth opportunity exists. Because we're going to cut a part of the tree and knowing that, yes, this power will grow back, this power will not grow back, right? And and and and and we have to balance that with well-being as well. So as we look at pruning and we look at the tree and our lives and all of that, the well-being and balance, having that physical emotion to understand and develop the mental resources needed, right? Necessary to sustain as you flourish. And and realized fulfillment, I must say.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

It sounds, it sounds like there's some strategy in there.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Well, well, in when we look at it from even from personal to organizational, we have to best be strategic in whatever we're doing in order to flourish. And one of the things, and I'm I'll mention of this maybe often, recently the Minister of Justice in Jamaica talked about JPs getting more involved in their communities. And what I've learned over the years with servant leadership, I've been doing this before learning servant leadership at university. So I now want to help my fellow JPs to understand that what you're doing, it's a service to the people, not to yourself. So we have to, there have to be a way. And one of the main reasons why the minister says that is because there are a lot of issues with JPs, JPs are charging, and that's not what you're supposed to do. It's a free service because we represent the queen, the king of England, yes. So it's now how do we strategize and make it work for us? How can we bring transformation to the community, the people that we serve? So flourishing in itself, we now have to look at how do we, how how us as JPs help our community to flourish. So it it does require some strategic initiatives. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Scott, what say you?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

So, you know, I think there has to be trust. So I've been, you know, in a few organizations throughout my career. I was the one to go in when there's trouble. You know, God brought me in, you know. That's kind of where I thrive is, you know, when there's issues. And so I've always gone into an organization in trans when they were in transition. And the transitions that moved smoothly or smoother, transitions are never smooth, but those that went smoother were those where there was a culture of trust. Because in order for people, and I know we're gonna talk about teams, is in order for them to flourish, they've got to trust the one in charge. And if we're going back to pruning, right? If a friend of mine is helping God prune me, I have to have a high level of trust in my friend. That's right. Right? There there has to be, I Dr. Aiden talked about psychological safety, right? The truth has to be spoken in love.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Right? Even when it hurts, but love also has to have truth, right? Yeah. So, you know, it's there's got to be safety. There's got to be a high level of trust. And you know, to me, those are the conditions that have to be there. And people have to be ready for change. That's true. Flourishing talks about growth to me, about new things.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And and and and that is why I scott the mind is so important because as we think about it, in order for you to flourish, we have to have an open mind.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

And from a Christian standpoint, we have to know that our lives are not our own. We belong to God. So He directs our path. The scripture tells us that. So as we go through the pruning and we go through all of that, there are the conditions, it comes with it. That we have to one, have an open mind, and from an organizational standpoint, as you say, we have to trust our how have trust our leaders. And as leaders, we have to ensure that we're in a position to even trust our own selves with the decisions that we're making for the people. Because at the end of the day, my philosophy is each person who said that they have who they serve in leadership positions, you are going to be accountable for the people who are under you. That's right. One day, one day. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Big word there. Mm-hmm. Indeed.

Flourishing Without A Faith Lens

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah. And I'm wondering, so what if what if somebody's tuning in and they're like, well, I'm not a Christian. So how would this how would this look for me? Like to flourish or not to believe in something that's the guiding force and whatnot? What what say you there?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Still Well I think we can all identify in a work environment. I think we probably had enough experience to be at least in one job where there wasn't a level of trust. Because trust goes both ways. So you know when your boss doesn't trust you, and all of a sudden we feel micromanaged. Yes. I would say micromanaging that environment is not conducive for flourishing. That's right. Okay. So we know what not flourishing is. Right. So I think for someone that's not a faith, you know, it they understand those differences. They know when there's not trust in an organization or there's not a safety factor. And so, as leaders, regardless of whether they're working like I do in a faith-based organization, there is still a need for trust. Yes, there's a need for that culture to exist, right? That allows all people to thrive. Because you know, as Christians, we believe we are all created by God, so therefore we each have value. And so I've got to be a person of integrity, of trust for all people. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah. I remember years ago I was sharing with a colleague of mine at a former employment, and I said to her, I saved up enough money to buy a bed. And she smiled. That was like within six months or something. And it was almost the end of the year. And I said to her, You know what, Miss Anne? Every year we celebrate our birthdays. We throw big parties, we have food, we have friends and family over. But what are we truly celebrating? What have we accomplished within that 365 days of the year? Did we grow? Did we achieve anything? Were we successful in some of our endeavors? So what are we really celebrating? Oh, I like that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

That's a good thought there. Hopefully, I'll remember it in 11 months.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Which which that's that's why and that's why I tell I I tell people this that and this goes for our non believers, our our our our our everyone, because in order for you to grow. You have to know what is going on with you. In order for you to move to move from point A to point B, we have to strategize and we have to think logical because am I growing or am I going?

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And hopefully you're growing, or else you are going.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

And we've all got a purpose, don't we?

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yes. And when we discover that purpose, and when we're moving towards that, we're growing in that purpose. That I think is when that sense of thriving, flourishing comes into play. I can think of a job, and I list it as my most miserable job. You know, it didn't have one. We all have one. Okay. I was in a place that didn't fit who I was. Didn't fit my, you know, strengths finder, didn't fit personality, and you know, it was a very rigid environment. And I moved I went to that position after being a CFO of a large organization. So I was used to overseeing $30 million a year. And now I moved into this career, and I learned a whole lot in two years. But it didn't fit. But I would say I didn't feel like I was thriving in flourishing.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah. Yeah. Well, good thing that you're not stuck.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

And and and and if I may, if I may add, yes. And at that point, Scott, when we're celebrating that other birthday, that's when we say to ourselves, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Maybe there's something else. But I'd promised my wife, I would not change jobs again. But by the end of that one, she's like, you can change jobs. This is not worth any of us because none of us are flourishing.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Oh, that's right. The effects it does have. Wow. It does.

What Makes Teams Truly Flourish

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Well, let's turn our attention to teams and flourishing. So many times we look, you know, high-performing teams, high-functioning teams. So, what distinguishes a flourishing team from just like a functional team, a team that's functional? We can bring in, we talked about psychological safety and trust. We can bring that in and anything else that uh kind of comes to mind with teams and flourishing. What does that look like? Team that's flourishing.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

That that that's an that's an interesting one because the difference lies in the quality of human interaction and the environment that supports them. And as we mentioned about the psychological part of it, I won't stress that too much, but there's one thing that I often say, and I've been saying this of recent. If I don't feel like I belong to a team, then I will have no purpose here. I won't find a purpose here. I don't think this is the place for me. Because when you build belonging basically creates a sense of acceptance. Yes. But it also waters the creativity, the passion, and the best thinking from the employees at work. So if I feel like I belong, yep, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna this is now where you say initiatives start to show. People start to go above and beyond, people start to extend themselves because I feel like I belong here. There was an organization, and I say this, and I say I'm gonna say this on every opportunity that I get. Let's hear it. When I was told to apply for tuition reimbursement at this company, and when I was doing the doctoral degree, and when I got the form, it didn't have anything for doctoral programs, not even PhD, not even PhD. So I said to the director, why would I do this? This says masters or other MBA or other masters, and he said, Well, you know, you never know. Just complete it and submit it and yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay, after two attempts, I did it. He asked me twice, and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna do this. And this is coming, which is a which is alarming, and tell me if you agree with me or not. This is coming from an HR person. An HR person. And I remember a few years ago, I made a presentation and I said, I think this is where HR now they're confusing themselves between HRD and HRM because they don't know what role they play. The HR manager sent back an email. I saved it because this is going to be my talking point, and asked if my doctorate is real. Is this a true is this a true doctorate degree coming from an HR person? And I can tell you this. I never saw myself belonging there, not not growing there. And to and to make matters worse, a senior director in the company got a DB afterwards. Is there so for me? When I saw that question, I'm like, yeah, belonging. Because we have to create that that that that place where people feel accepted and wanted. And from an HR person, I'm like, she needs to reconsider her job. Because HR, as far as I'm concerned, you don't only manage processes, you manage people. Yes, yeah. And how are we making creating a flourishing environment? That's right. Because that person failed, she failed. But there's no there wasn't no nurture in there for flourishing.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah. Gosh, I'm so sorry about that. That's a terrible experience.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah. Well, we will have this is what creates stories as we go along. It's actually every opportunity I get.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

There's ways to improve HR, isn't there? That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Scott, two in teams. What do you what do you see as far as how do you look at a team and say, oh, they're flourishing.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

So, you know, when Dr. Aiden was talking, he was talking about the quality of their interactions. And that got me to thinking down, in a sense, a rabbit trail. Because quality interactions create quality results. Amen. Right? And I you were touching on that through your conversation, and it was like, you know, when we belong to a team, when we're safe in that team, you know, we can then have disagreements, true disagreements, because that interaction then allows us to have better results. We're not all yes people, right? It's not just agreeing with what the leader of the team says we should be doing, but rather there's pushback, there's figuring it out because there are real issues in leadership that need to be addressed, but oftentimes aren't because that belonging, that safety, the trust does not exist.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Yeah. And it takes cultivating those conditions so it can exist. Because we could want it, we could want to feel like we belong, we can want to trust our team members, you know, we can want all day long, but unless everybody is putting in the effort to create the conditions, so yes, I belong to this team, and I feel like I belong to this team, and I feel that not even that I feel, but I know I can trust my team members. I know that they'll have my back.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

And that takes work beyond the functional part of a team, the workings. So these are like the inner workings, maybe of the team.

unknown 31:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

The too many teams forget about or they don't know. They don't know some of these aspects of teamship that are so important to cultivate.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah, and and and if I may add, as we look at trust, psychological safety, and the b and belonging, with I I believe that without these, these elements, team may perform inadequately, right?

Compliance Versus Commitment In Culture

SPEAKER_01 31:36

But often operate from a compliance standpoint rather than a commitment standpoint.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Compliance versus commitment. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. And Scott, I mean, you're all about compliance, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:52

I should be, right? But actually, that's been a lot of when I walk into organizations, especially the organizations I walk into are more visionary-led. And you know, you need an interpreter between the compliance accountants in the room and the visionary. Yeah. And that's oftentimes where I found my space of going, okay, we can't just go up to the visionary and say, oh, the IRS won't let us do that. One, it's hogwash. We're just hiding behind the IRS. Two, that means they're gonna go do it without asking you in the future. So you have to have a two-way street of trust. Yeah. If I'm just saying accounting speak or compliance speak, then I haven't earned the trust of my leader. But I find that if I can get the why, right? If we can have a good dialogue, then trust begins to happen.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

And then I can say no to certain things. That's right. But I love typically in in love. In and love. It's usually no to this way. However, you want this as your result, I think we could do it this way. Would that work? Right? So now because we've had a full conversation, instead of immediately saying no, but again, I find the visionary has to be open to having that conversation rather than just running with their idea. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

And it goes back to the conditions, it's creating those conditions, yeah, right, so these conversations can can happen openly without people getting, you know, all crazy and figuring it out together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

I would have to say it takes a secure leader to allow for those under them to flourish. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna say and grow maybe even more than they are, right? We can't be afraid of a subordinate being better than we are. Yeah, because there are some, I mean, especially my age, I'm looking at, okay, you know, I've been 40 years in ministry, so therefore I mean I am a little older. Yeah. We we gotta raise the younger ones up. That's right. Right? We gotta train, you know, upcoming executives, that's right, upcoming leaders. Because and not worry about them having a better idea than us.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

And it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

We want to, we want to encourage that. You know, because what happens if we're no longer there? The organization doesn't thrive, you know. So yeah, but it's about the intentionality.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Um and and that's why I to add to that, Scott. I often say as a leader, it's not I think my my book on Beneath the Crown, leadership rooted in service, passion, and purpose. It speaks to leaders. Don't look at your position because I have arrived at and it is about me. But it's what goes on beneath that crown is what makes you a leader. What do you do for the people around you? And how many, how many individuals under you can say that they are flourishing, they're growing. And when I I remember, excuse me, we had I had a supervisor years ago when I worked at the credit union, and one Saturday we had to go to the ATA machine four times, four times because ATA was just not working, and we get keep getting notification. And on the fourth time, I was going home, I was driving my car, someone ran in the back of my car, and all of these things. But why did I do that on a Saturday? Why wasn't why I never complain? Because the leader that I had then was somebody who goes out for her people. Yeah, so in that case, when you think of yourself as a leader, how are people below you trusting you to really bring them to a point of flourishing? Bring them to a point where I see purpose, I see value. Yeah, and I would want to come here not because I'm faithful to Monarchs, but I'm faithful to Dr. Brown because of what he has installed, inspired me. And I'll maybe share this for the last of it. I used to mentor a young man back in Jamaica. He migrated, the family migrated. And what is interesting about that mentorship program was I meant I was his brother's mentor, not his mentor. And every time I called to talk with him, my mentee, he wouldn't never talk. So his brother always came with the phone. And I we developed that relationship, and another friend of them, of theirs, and the family migrated to Cayman. He saw me on Facebook, the family saw me on Facebook, we connected again, and my mentor still haven't said anything. And his brother is the one who actually was following me, and he said, I want to come to America, I want to be where you are. And I'm like, okay, he came here, and I remember that's years ago, and he came here and found love. I, as a notary, performed the ceremony. That's amazing. And up to today, he told them when I was doing my final project and I had that workshop, Dr. Whalan, my workshop for my final project. He flew from Texas to Florida to attend the event, my leadership workshop, and he was just a supervisor. And now he's the operations manager. My event was February. He went back and in March, March, April, April, he had his certificate because we all gave them a certificate. And he took his certificate back and frame it and had it as a desk. And his his his whole demeanor coach and everything, within two months, he was promoted to manager. And he told everybody that story that listen, that man, that man, he's he's the best mentor I've ever had. He called me his uncle today. So when we look at being in people's lives, yeah, are they flourishing? Are they what what are what what is it? How is it that we're impacting their life? And that's a thing that as leaders, we have to say to ourselves at every anniversary that we celebrated leadership, have I done anything to impact anybody?

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Yeah, and you never know who you're gonna impact, like in this instance. It's brother. That's incredible. Yeah, yeah. So when we think about that from that organizational, let's let's go there.

Markers Of A Flourishing Organization

SPEAKER_02 39:38

When you think about the markers of a flourishing organization, how do we know it exists? So we talked about the individual, talked about the team. So how do we know at the organizational level the flourishing exists within there?

SPEAKER_01 40:01

I think uh we can we can consider the responses from employees. Are they engaged? Are they trusting leaders or the organization to think of their best interests? Yes, I want to come to work, but is it that I saw something recently where employees, if they're late, they're fined. And I'm like, what are you telling me? That high retention of talented employees. I heard a story where this organization and a CEO must ask, would you fire an employee with 35 years of experience that cost a company $250,000, or would you keep it? And he said, Why would I fire all those years of experience? We can make that this $250,000 and the collaboration that we bring across departments, right? And from a holistic approach for the organization, our customers, our internal or external customers, our communities, our stakeholders holders, what positive impact is that our operations impact is created on those elements. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

What say you, Scott?

SPEAKER_00 41:32

So, you know, you talked about this collaboration across departments, right? You know, that makes me think of, you know, we've heard of this silo mentality, right? And I've been in leadership meetings where you have different department heads and they can only think of their department. We can't do this because this will make us do more work. It may help fundraising, but it's gonna cost the accounting department to do extra work. And that's where, you know, I'm like, okay, accounting team, we're losing the silo mentality because it's about the fundraising, it's about the programs, it's not about administration at the end of the day. It's about who we're reaching, who we're serving. And so to me, part of that marker is you you have that collaboration between your departments, between especially the leaders. So in the CPA world, we have an expression called tone at the top. And so you kind of know what kind of issues you're gonna have with the accounting audit by your interaction with those leading the organization. So if there's a bad vibe when you're interviewing the president, then there's a ding. And you're gonna have to say, okay, we're gonna have to take a little bit deeper dive into some things, because the tone at the top says, you know, we don't really care about compliance. Right. Right? But the tone at the top is we don't care about silos. We have a common purpose, and so there's clarity from the top, there's clear communication. And I'm gonna throw out the accountability word. Yes, there's clear lines of accountability, but also, you know, you got your job performances, but I'm also gonna say you're gonna have your development plans. Yes. Right. So we're not just telling people where they're doing things wrong. We're helping them improve. We're exploring where they would like to grow and how they could then serve the organization better. Yeah. So we're really, you know, those are things that I would say talk about a flourishing organization.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

And I'll just add to that, you know a flourishing organization exists when people consistently report that they are valued. When growth is happening, when they are connected and they're inspired by their work. Yeah. Right? And and results matter, but flourishing organizations rather achieve results in ways that strengthen people rather than depleting them.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Right. And I would say they have consistent results. Right? Yeah. When your people are flourishing, right, the results are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Certainly, there may be, I mean, in down economy times, right? There may be times when you have to pull the team together and say, okay, we're struggling. You know, the financial metrics, because of the outside forces, mean we need to make some decisions.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

How do we work as a team to make those hard decisions?

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Yeah. You know, Scott, when you mentioned the development plan, I I think that it's crucial that organizations understand how valuable that is, uh, not only you know for the employee, but for the organization itself, and being able to, you know, not be a box checker for development, but really think about how can we help our people thrive so the organization is seen as a a flourishing organization and really implement and create those conditions so they can, and for leaders to understand the importance of it.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Absolutely, because you know, but it takes getting to know who works for you.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Right? You have to have those conversations, and you can't for me, I could never say, you know, you're gonna be here five years. No, it's where where do you want to go? You know, let's not restrict it to just the organization, but I want the best employee, and sometimes that means that they're gonna develop to a place that they're gonna leave. Yes, but that's okay because while they're with me, they're gonna give their best. That's right. Because I'm pouring into them. I am making sure that they as an individual develop.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Yes, yeah, and and that's a part of the pool in process. It is pruning, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Yes, uh oh wow, what a great conversation, you two.

Final Advice And How To Connect

SPEAKER_02 47:37

This has been amazing. Yes, yeah, and I would love to give each of you a last word here. So if you could give leaders one piece of advice about creating environments where people flourish beyond what was already said, because there was a lot said, what would it be? And make sure you tell people how to find you too at this point, following that. So what what advice would you give? Scott, what say you?

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Okay. So I'm gonna say to have a flourishing organization, it's intentional, right? You know, I'll go back to the hiking, you know, where the woods are just being allowed to kind of do whatever they want, they're getting kind of wild, right? And but when you take care of something, you it flourishes even more, right? And the weeds are gone, the vi the invasive vines are you know not there, it takes intentional effort, a lot of effort. Culture is not easy, but you can't leave it to its own because the unintended consequences happen, right? And so, you know I love all things leadership, and so you know, I am an executive coach as well as a CFO advisor. Oftentimes organizations come to me because they're struggling, right? Cash flow is one of those signs, right? The organization's not thriving. We need to make some decisions, but I'll you know, it's oftentimes the issue isn't the cash flow, it is a symptom, right? That's right. I can look at a balance sheet, I can look at a you know income statement and tell you you have other issues. Money is just a symptom. Yeah, so how you can get a hold of me, got a website, it's breakthroughcoaching.life, as well as you can find me on LinkedIn. It's GS Mitchell-N P O B T. So that's short for nonprofit organization breakthrough. Excellent. Thank you, Sky. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

When leaders genuinely care about growth, well-being, dignity, and potential of those they lead, they create cultures where people are willing to trust. Leaders see people see uh people as human beings first and resources second. Flourishing is not something leaders can mandate. It is something that cultivate through consistent actions, authentic relationships, and a commitment to helping people become the best versions or the better versions of themselves. The greatest leaders do more than just achieve organizational goals, they create environments where people lead stronger, wiser, and more capable to do more, be fulfilled right when they arrived. So when that is what the true measure of leadership and the foundation of human flourish is. So I'll leave it at that to think about. I'll leave it that right there for you to think about. Um I'm at Monars Enterprise www.monars.us, and um I'm working on my brand, building my brand. Um two years strong, going three years next year, thank god. Um, and I'm on LinkedIn. So if you want to connect with me, I'm on LinkedIn, Aiden Brown, and um email address is aidin.brown at monhars.us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Excellent. Well, thank you both again for joining me on conversations, terrific conversation around flourishing for people, for teams, for organizations. And until next time, you keep doing great things. We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Thank you.