E95. The Most Expensive Leader In The Organization Is Checked Out w/ Dr. Jamie Hardy

This video is about Dr. Jamie Hardy

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, welcome to Conversations, where today we have Dr. Jamie Hardy, the lifestyle pharmacist, a clinical pharmacist, speaker, and founder of innovative wellness. With over 20 years of experience in healthcare, she now partners with organizations to improve leadership performance through science-backed well-being strategies. Her work focuses on helping executives reduce burnout, increase energy, and build sustainable high performance. Dr. Jamie's insights have been featured on national TV, radio, and podcasts. And she has received multiple honors for her impact in leadership and wellness. Welcome to the show, Dr. Jamie. How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Hi, Dr. Kelly. I'm doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to get into our conversation today. Oh, me too. I'd love to know where are you coming to us from? Yeah, I am coming to you from Memphis, Tennessee. Memphis, Tennessee. Good barba cue. Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Ah, yes. Oh.

Well-Being As Business Strategy

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Well, I am really excited about this conversation about well-being because we hear about it a lot. And I know that you talk about shifting conversations from surface-level self-care to strategic well-being. So let's hear the word well-being. You know, we hear about it in our in our workplaces. Maybe it's a little bit different, you know, where some people will think about well-being than others. So why should let's talk about executives? So, why should executive well-being be viewed as a core business strategy rather than personal responsibility?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yes, I love talking about it from an enterprise level, especially because oftentimes when we hear about well-being, the onus or the responsibility, the duty, the work is placed a lot of times solely on the shoulders of the individual. And for a very long time, I focused my work on helping female executives with their well-being strategy. So managing their stress, properly fueling their body, creating boundaries around work and home and life so that they could have those periods of strategic rest. And through that work, I realized something. The organization that these leaders operate within, where they help drive the culture forward, where they manage and lead others, that was completely being left out of the conversation. And something else that really opened my eyes to this was women who had gone through my programming as individuals, in some of their feedback as we, you know, closed out the time that we spent together. They said, you know what, I really enjoyed this. It was so beneficial, not just in how I'm showing up in my home and showing up with my friends and family. My team is talking about what a difference they're noticing. It would be great if my coworker knew about you and knew about what you did. And that's when I had a light bulb moment, like, hey, wait a minute. I'm helping these executives work on themselves, but what about these organizations? What about the other women? What about the other leaders that are there that have not connected with me? You know, they need to have some skin in the game too, because how is it that we're working on reducing depletion and you know, strengthening all these other areas in the individual and the organization does not have any stake in this? And they're benefiting and they're also contributing to the depletion that these leaders are needing recovery from in the first place. And so got it. So that is where the work that I do resides. And unfortunately, this was not always welcomed in some of the earlier iterations of these conversations because some people just aren't ready to hear, like, hey, this is not just checking off a box. This is not just putting, you know, we offer well-being perks here in our organization or putting things in a in the HR benefits packet or the brochure or posting signage in the break room and just kind of checking that box. That is not sufficient. What is happening in the day-to-day lives of the leaders who are within your organization? And we had to start talking about it and addressing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah. So it sounds like, you know, your light bulb moment that you had, these leaders really need to have the light bulb moment as well. Because if they are benefiting from the ripple effect of well-being, that's exciting. That's definitely exciting. And they should get excited about that because we want healthy organizations, healthy leaders, healthy organizations. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah. And there's been a lot of data coming out surrounding this topic because, like employee well-being and retention and the word burnout has just been, you know, rampant. It's elevated the need for these conversations. And even some, you know, large-scale publications and some of the consultancies are even talking about the global workforce. For example, Gallup released a report, right? Talking about the disengagement and the significant stress that people are experiencing. And the primary driver was determined to be leader and manager engagement and that well-being within those groups. Because as you mentioned, there is this ripple effect. You know, this executive well-being trickles down. And it has to be, in my experience and observation, a top-down approach because leaders cast a shadow. They help set the tone, they model what the culture really is, not what we say, but through what we do. And that's why I'm just so passionate about having conversations like this with you and other experts to share some solutions to hey, say, hey, how can we move this from, like you said, those surface level, you know, check boxes to really something that is ingrained into the way that we do business in our organization and how our people really feel. And that also, Dr. Kelly helps to determine whether some people slowly, quietly dim their light, start to disengage, pull back, and even some that are so depleted, they end up looking for options and opportunities elsewhere and leave the organization completely. So this is, you know, well-being meets business strategy, beats organizational structure, meets organizational impact, and even longevity. And so whenever I start talking about well-being through that lens, that's when I start to see people lean in more. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Absolutely.

The Hidden Cost Of Burnout

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Well, you know, you mentioned burnout. What are maybe some of the hidden costs to organizations when leaders operate in this, you know, constant state?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah. Burnout has a high cost. And the thing about burnout is that it can be a little sneaky. And it's not always what people think it shows up as. And so I like to reframe it around, you know, this cost conversation because a lot of organizations are entirely measuring the wrong thing. And so when we think about costs, we think about expenses, right? But I like to put a spin on this to really, you know, galvanize this point. The most expensive leader in your organization is not the highest paid person. We think a lot about salary and packages and compensation. The most expensive leader in the organization is the one who is still physically showing up, but they mentally checked out months ago. And so they're physically present. They are, you know, not bringing their very best ideas and creativity and ingenuity, you know, energy, leadership presence to their work anymore. And that is what I like to call the invisible depletion. Because they're really there, but they're so depleted. And that is the cost that is impacting the financial baseline of these organizations. Because not just that one leader, but just think about the people who report up to that leader, right? And this is one of the most expensive but least measured opportunities or risks sitting right inside a lot of leadership structures at this very moment. And as we mentioned with the Gallup, you know, data, these disengaged managers can be some of the single greatest predictors of the teams that then become disengaged, right? And then that just kind of erodes the performance of the organization at all. And that's why I like to really call this out and get people to think about who are the people in your organization who were once the rising or shining stars? Who are those exceptional, vocal, most engaged, most creative, most willing to kind of press the envelope or challenge the way we think and do things. And now they're in meetings and they're not really saying a lot. You know, that that is a huge cost. And so that is one of the ways that burnout can absolutely show up. But a lot of human resources, directors, and chiefs, and even chief people officers are not really keying in on those individuals because those are people who are depleted and who are showing some signs of burnout. But it's not, you know, the way that people automatically associate it with it.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Well, I think people are quick to judge too. I mean, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors with people. We are just, you know, unfortunately, many times judging, you know, and putting our own spin and our own story to somebody else's story, and it's not right. So we need to know our people. Yes. Yes.

Boundaries That Protect Energy

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Let's talk about boundaries. So, how can leaders create boundaries that protect their energy? So, if they're we have these depleted leaders, we need to protect that energy without compromising performance or results. So, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah, so boundaries can be a little tricky. And I say that because we have to think about in these organizations what are we rewarding? Are the ones who are constantly raising their hands or accepting and accepting more or being voluntole, you know, about expanded roles or additional stretch goals and objectives and projects, the ones that are the first to arrive and the last to leave, the ones who don't take any time away from work despite pay time off being a part of the benefit package, right? What are we rewarding? Who are we seeing being, you know, shouted out in the team, you know, newsletter or some type of kudos or you know, token of appreciation or acknowledgement being given to? And that is what can sometimes work against this whole idea of, well, just create some boundaries. Well, am I gonna be shunned? Am I gonna be labeled as not being a team player or not as dedicated or being a slacker if I do put some parameters in place to safeguard my mental health, my physical health, my emotional stability? You know, what are we really communicating to our teams? So we have to address that part first. What are we really rewarding and promoting here? Do our people really genuinely feel cared about, or is it just we care about you as long as you keep performing at all costs, right? And with all that being said, I'll say that of course there is this duality of how do we work together, the individual and the organization, we have to move away on both fronts from treating rest as something that has to be rewarded, right? It doesn't have to be earned. So taking those moments for strategic rest, you know, time away, or even not taking calls or responding to emails after the designated workday hours, putting some things in place to handle emergencies. I get this a lot whenever I start talking about these safeguards for the team and safeguards for the leaders. Well, Dr. Jamie, things happen. What if there's an emergency? Well, we can plan and implement some emergency protocols. And how do we determine what's really an emergency versus what can wait till tomorrow? And then what is the hierarchy in terms of who is responding and in what way? And so that is where I love to always go with this conversation around boundaries. And I think about, you know, my time and my tenure as a clinical pharmacist. I went to school, you know, for pharmacy, learning how the body operates when it's at its best, how it, you know, functions when it's not, and what can we do to intervene and solve those problems? And so I like to think about all these things from a body or biological or physiologic, you know, standpoint. And so this idea of you know putting some parameters or boundaries in place to protect, you know, time for rest, white space on calendars, even during the workday, dedicated times for you know, nutrition and meals, not just being at your workstation constantly or eating as you work. All of those things tie into the well-being of the leader. And we can put some parameters or boundaries around those sacred activities that we as humans need just to function, you know, and then just thinking about executives and founders and leaders, you know, your brain is one of your most valuable assets. So all of these things that we do in the well-being space help to support that asset, right? And so that's the bigger, you know, conversation around boundaries that I just like to always call out.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

And it's hard for people. It's really hard. Like to have white space in your calendar. That could be very difficult for somebody to incorporate. And I always say it's about baby steps, right? Just a little bit of white space, try it on, you know, then you can increase. But yeah, and I think it's it's important for the person to understand how they operate and what's important for them and how they work best, right? Because in the United States, we are a culture of executors. Like it's, you know, like you said, you know, come in early, stay late, you know, and get as much done as you can, take on those extra projects. But there's more to life than that.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yes. Yes. We are so much more than just our work or the output. And you made a great point about this, you know, do more, this hustle culture that is very unique to the United States and just, you know, doing more, more, more.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah. We have to unlearn a lot of our habits as leaders. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

And I think until somebody either goes through burnout or something similar or knows somebody, is very close to somebody, I think that's when the aha moments come. Yeah. But it it is. I mean, it's nothing anybody would want to experience. No.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

And unfortunately, some people go through burnout multiple times. And and it's just like, when are we going to make some changes? This is obviously not sustainable for you, right? It's, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Until we get the lesson right, it's always gonna come back to us.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yes, yes. And that's one of the things that I, you know, enjoy talking through with you know people like you when I come into organizations. I talk about the fact that all this needs to be modeled, right? Leaders cast a shadow. And so when your senior leadership team shows up fueled and rested and operating from capacity rather than depletion, and they have, in certain ways, put some parameters in place, you know, whether they're doing all of the things that we named, they could, like you said, just be starting with baby steps. So maybe it's being intentional about I'm gonna get up from this desk and go eat my lunch. I'm gonna go sit outside. The organization has invested in this beautiful outdoor area. I'm going to go, yes, I am the, you know, director of whatever department. I'm gonna get up and get my lunch and I'm gonna go sit out there. Just imagine the ripple that that will have through the team as people are walking by and they see, hey, isn't that so-and-so outside? So just those baby steps can make such an impact. Absolutely.

Building Sustainable High Performance

SPEAKER_01 18:20

All right. Well, let's get into more practicality, Dr. Jamie. What are some of those practical steps leaders and teams take to build a culture that supports sustainable high performance? So we've got these leaders. Hopefully, it's you know, well-being is within the organization, but what does it take to really sustain high performance?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah. First, adopting the idea that depletion is not an individual problem, right? The organization has to play a role in, you know, solving for this. It's not a personal problem. There are things that the organization can do in collaboration or partnership with leaders. So that's first. And owning, owning the responsibility to help solve for it. So some simple things that come to mind are knowing where you actually stand. So many people I found kind of bury their head in the sand or they're not noticing the markers that depletion is lurking under the surface here. And so, one of the ways that people can actually get like a pulse or a snapshot of the well-being culture of where their leaders may stand when it comes to depletion is to do a short assessment. And I actually created one and it's a free diagnostic, and it's really short and only takes about 10 minutes. And that's where I typically start whenever I have conversations about approaching a strategic, you know, type of partnership with an organization working with their leaders, is to let's do this assessment and know what things might be lurking under the surface that are signaling some of these problems that might just bubble up. We don't want it to become like full-blown burnout, full-blown resignation after resignation, because these are some things that we can start, you know, working through, but you have to first know where you are. And then once you know where you are, making the commitment to actually, you know, go on the record and say, you know what, our people matter here, and we're gonna put our money where our mouths are. We're going to build this into how we operate. We hear you, we see you, and we are committed to working collaboratively to help this be a place where you want to stay and grow and thrive. There's this misconception that I've heard several organizations, and I'm not going to call anybody name, right? But I've heard some of them say, oh, you know, our comp our competition across town is poaching our talent pipeline. And I found that not to be the case in most instances. It's that those opportunities look better because in speaking with your competitor, they got the sense that there's something different over there than where they are. It's not just about my output. It's not just about me doing more, more, more. They made me, just in that conversation, feel more cared about as a human than I do where I show up physically every day. And that is a huge problem. But there is a solution. Organizations can solve for that. And implementing some of these things that we mentioned really reiterates to your leaders that we do care about. You when you talk about the hey, I see that you know you've been staying late, or you're still here, or when are you gonna you and the family gonna you know do something? Have you all been on a vacation? Have you just taken a day just to garden it? I remember you used to have these passion projects or these hobbies. Tell me what you've been up to. Having some conversations with people, human to human, person to person, those little things can be the deciding factor in whether someone who is contemplating making a move, just those acts of care and concern might be enough to get them to change their mind or to say, you know what, these people really care about me. And we're we're having these, you know, workshops and we're having you know different resources that the organization is investing in. You know, well-being is what we really do here. I can really, you know, vouch from what you know my company is doing. So that's the second thing, the investment in well-being and making it real inside of the culture and the day-to-day experience that people have. And lastly, I'll say just making sustainable performance something that has accountability attached to it. And what that means to me is not just having, you know, just doing lip service is what I call it, having, you know, conversations. No, it's about like what we hear out of office message, you know. I'm not receiving or responding to emails, you know, after 5 p.m., I'll respond, you know, in the morning. Just those little things can make a huge difference in supporting your team and having some, I guess, autonomy and feeling supported in putting some of those safeguards in place around themselves, them feeling backed up and supported in doing that, and you as the leader modeling it. So actually having that level of accountability kind of weaved into the culture. So those are the three things that immediately come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

That's awesome. Thank you for that. I'm telling you, I think that, you know, organizations, while they use the word wellness, they need to first understand, right? That's what I'm hearing from you. They need to understand what is wellness, they need to understand their people, they need to give opportunities so those conditions, so wellness can really thrive within organizations, so their people can be sustainable, so the organization can be sustainable. So, yes, they end up with positive results, right? And that bottom line balloons.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yes, all about the people, all about the people, all about the people.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Well, I appreciate you coming on and really unpacking what wellness is, especially from an organizational view and looking at it as a strategy. And I would love to give you the last word. So, what say you?

Baby Steps And Free Diagnostic

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Okay, well, yeah, well-being absolutely has to be a part of the strategy and not just the individual's, you know, personal responsibility. And I just want to give everyone who's listening, whether you are a leader, whether you are the person who is driving the culture at your organization, this is possible. It doesn't have to be this overwhelming undertaking as we share today, starting with some baby steps. There, there is definitely some unlearning that needs to occur in replacing some of those, you know, thoughts and habits that don't serve you from a sustainability standpoint. Replace those with some of the things that we shared today. Um, I am from Memphis, Tennessee, as I mentioned, and one of the things that my granny taught me was that you never show up to anyone's house empty-handed. And so, Dr. Kelly, I want to give your audience something that they can use definitely to put some of these principles into practice that we talked about. I mentioned that free diagnostic that I had developed. I use this with some of my strategic partnerships when I go into corporations. It's also one that can be used by anyone that's listening today, and they can grab it at Leadership RetentionIndex.com. It's a quick 10-minute diagnostic tool to assess whether some of those patterns are lurking beneath the surface that may be signaling that depletion might be existing in your organization. So definitely um take advantage of that free resource at leadershipretentionindex.com and it'll give you some real-time data to make some decisions around in your organization.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Excellent. And we'll be sure to put that link in the show notes. Dr. Jamie Hardy, thank you so much for joining us on Conversations. And until next time, you keep doing great things, and we'll see you soon. Thank you so much, Dr. Kelly. Bye. You're welcome.