Today we're talking with Rich--a phenomenal photographer, African safari guide, and just great person all-around. Having had a long, yet still ascending guiding career, he's got a lot of sage advice for seasoned photographers and budding photographers alike.
We go over a lot, and there is so much to take away from this conversation. We get some excellent thoughts on storytelling in photography, discuss his ambassadorship with Sony, his favorite lenses for various photo safaris, and even a bit on the role of social media and other media in conservation photography.
We talk about a few key pieces of gear in today's episode and you can learn more about each of them, and purchase them if you wish, at the links below.
Sony RX10 IV - All Purpose Camera
Rich's Favorite Safari Lens - 400mm f/2.8 - Canon - Nikon - Sony
Rich's Favorite Gorilla Lens - 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon - Nikon - Sony
If you'd like to check out more from Rich, you can find him at the various links below.
Rich's Instagram - @richard.degouveia
Rich's TikTok - @richard.degouveia
Rich's Website - Safari Architects
Court's Portfolio
Court's YouTube Channel
Today we're talking with Rich--a phenomenal photographer, African safari guide, and just great person all-around. Having had a long, yet still ascending guiding career, he's got a lot of sage advice for seasoned photographers and budding photographers alike.
We go over a lot, and there is so much to take away from this conversation. We get some excellent thoughts on storytelling in photography, discuss his ambassadorship with Sony, his favorite lenses for various photo safaris, and even a bit on the role of social media and other media in conservation photography.
We talk about a few key pieces of gear in today's episode and you can learn more about each of them, and purchase them if you wish, at the links below.
Sony RX10 IV - All Purpose Camera
Rich's Favorite Safari Lens - 400mm f/2.8 - Canon - Nikon - Sony
Rich's Favorite Gorilla Lens - 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon - Nikon - Sony
If you'd like to check out more from Rich, you can find him at the various links below.
Rich's Instagram - @richard.degouveia
Rich's TikTok - @richard.degouveia
Rich's Website - Safari Architects
Court's Portfolio
Court's YouTube Channel
My guest today is Rich De Gouveia, a phenomenal wildlife photographer who specializes in African safaris and beyond Africa. I say that because he's also supremely adept in experience in photographing far-flung places like Madagascar, which is technically Africa but quite different, but also much more familiar places on the African continent, but still atypical safaris like viewing mountain gorillas of Uganda and Rwanda. The stuff we cover in this episode is so helpful and includes things like Rich's approach to storytelling in his photography, his favorite lenses for African safaris and gorilla trekking two very different endeavors his Sony Ambassadorship and, of course, his impressive social media presence, which he greatly uses for conservation storytelling. We're lucky to have Rich here and I'm excited to welcome him. Rich, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Richard:Thanks so much, Court. Thanks for having me today. I'm really excited to be on the show and chatting with you.
Court:Rich, you have an extraordinary CV for lack of a better word resume of the places you guide, the things you get into, the photographs you have access to and really make for yourself. It's an incredible guiding career that you've assembled and I follow along closely, and, of course, later in the podcast we'll talk about how others can follow you a little bit more closely too. But one of the questions I have right off the bat is having to do with the unique style of an African safari. The vast majority of your quote unquote classic African safaris are vehicle based or vehicle supported, however you want to put it, and so my question is kind of twofold here. So you have obviously unique access to wildlife vehicles when you're photographing in Africa.
Court:What have you learned over the years about how to best photograph from vehicles?
Court:And then the second part of that is what of those experiences do you translate to your on the ground work to make to perhaps make it even better? And the reason I say all this just as background rich guys everything from your classic mainland East and Southern African safaris, but also some of the really cool outside the box stuff like gorilla tracking and Madagascar, and I'm sure we're going to hear and learn about other places too. But yeah, to boil it down, what have you learned, what are some tips, what are some things you've internalized about photographing from vehicles to make the most of it? And how do you take that and say you know what? What of those lessons might make my on the ground stuff even better, If that even exists? I'm kind of challenging you there to see if there is a bridge that maybe you've learned, or at least appreciate the ability to say pivot easily around an animal when you're on the ground on foot. But let's start off with your thoughts and ideas, what you've learned over the years and how to best shoot from vehicles.
Richard:So, again, the vehicle based safari stuff is is really fascinating because of the situation that's gone on over years and years and a lot of the places that we get to travel to and based on where you get to go National Parks versus private reserves will change all of that aspect, because in private reserves we get to go off road, get a bit closer. The animals are accustomed to getting you closer, but understanding the animals behavior and and giving it a sense of space, so many guides and so many people are focused on trying to get as close as possible to that animal and 99.9% of the time that is not the best photo you're going to get is being close, because the closer you get to something, especially out of a vehicle, you have this downward angle where you're looking down on something and you lose the background. Boca, you lose the impact of trying to get somebody to eye level so that they feel more comfortable around those things. You know there's so many aspects to it. So I love encouraging our local guides because as a private guide I'm on the back with the, with the guests is encouraging and creating a relationship with the local guide to say, ok, cool, we have long lenses, let's stay back. Let's give the animal a bit of time and space to feel comfortable with our presence so it doesn't feel like we're just rushing in and creating this discomfort within the animal. So you start from further back and you start getting landscape photos, animal in situ, animal with the environment and really creating an image, because anyone can get a portrait image inside a zoo, you just have to zoom in. But in a while there you want to show that animal in its space. That's what makes it so beautiful. It's what makes it makes us able to go back to the same parks to see the same animals, because they're in a different place, in a different setting, in different light each and every time. So that, for one, is one big thing. And understanding that it becomes vehicle based.
Richard:We're always looking at how we're going to take the next step, because if an animal is lying in one spot, that's not often what we're going to get the magical photo from. The magical photo comes from prediction, from understanding animal behavior, for being ready for that next moment and saying, ok, cool, it's come from that tree to that tree. The likelihood is it's going to go to that next one and mark territory there. So let's go wait there. Let's not get it while it's sleeping, let's go wait in this spot. We've got these photos that give us a general idea of where we've been.
Richard:But now we need to make a photograph and in order to do that, you have to place yourself and you go, set yourself up in the next location, ready to take that shot, having the ability to have a few seconds to get your shutter speeds right, to get your aperture right, to understand what the background is going to be behind that animal.
Richard:And sometimes we hit it and it comes up perfectly. 70% of the time we miss it because that's the nature of prediction we don't know what the animal is going to do next. And then that translates a lot to when you're not in a vehicle and you have more ability to move around, say something like a Lima or a gorilla, where we a little bit more controlled in how we move around. But I would take guests and say, okay, cool, let's go wait here, because the silverback has moved here, so that more than likely the females are gonna follow along. This way, we'll get them into those positions and then taking the advantage of, while you're on foot, to get as low as possible so that you can shoot up and make a big gorilla look even bigger, or get into a position where you're shooting almost at eye level with a Lima that's in a tree, rather than shooting from the bottom up and seeing just a butthole, which is not gonna give you the greatest photo in the world, Ha ha such sage advice, especially that last part.
Court:That's great. You just shared like three or four awesome gems there. I kind of wanted to recapitulate a little bit of that One. You started talking about the angle, right, so a vehicle, that's the thing is, when you're in a vehicle and it doesn't matter if you're in Africa or Yellowstone or the Arctic anywhere when you are out of necessity need to be above the ground, just you and the audience start thinking about the angle when an animal is on the ground and as you get closer think back to like 10th grade trigonometry that angle gets more obtuse. It actually increases, such that the view is photographing further and further down towards the animal and, like Rich said, you lose that beautiful background blur. You lose some of the essence of the photography that you're trying to get with a really cool landscape around the animal. So that's huge, the idea of staying a little bit further away, using telephoto power to your advantage and seeing what happens.
Court:And that's the next part, and I love this because it really speaks to what we try to do, as, in some cases, sort of like wildlife experts and biologists. First and I mean I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the way I look at myself, as I'm kind of a biologist first and photographer second, even though they grew very parallel to one another. But knowing the wildlife behavior is such an awesome thing as a photo guide and it's something that I think we have as a super big superpower there. And then, of course, talking about this wildlife and landscape shot right, I mean, you took the words out of my mouth. That's like exactly what I preach all day long is that if you get that classic wildlife portrait and you can't tell where it's at, it could be in a zoo, it could be anywhere. So super, super good advice there.
Court:So the first thing you shared about yeah, we have a telephoto, we had the lens. Let's stay a little bit further back. I want to talk about gear a little bit there. So what if we're talking about a good beefy telephoto that allows you to stay a little bit away, makes that angle a little more acute, that makes it seem as if perhaps you're at eye level, maybe literally eye level, but at least it makes it seem close to eye level to a lion, to a wild dog, to what have you? What talk to me about some of the lenses that you think are primo for African wildlife safaris. I know this can be a very subjective, contentious issue, but I'm sure you have your own opinions and let's hear. Maybe, if you don't have a tip top favorite, you know a list of your favorites.
Richard:So I love that. Corten, the idea of lens and equipment choices, especially lens choice, is certain integral part to capturing an image, especially if you do this over and over, because every time you change a lens you change the perspective from which you're photographing, so your photographs completely change when you use a different lens, depending on where we are, will give us different things. If I'm saying the Saabi Sands, I could get away with a 300 mil lens, no problems, because you get so close to the animals and it's quite dense in terms of its foliage and vegetation, so that limits us in getting far enough away With something. Some way like the Serengeti. A 600 mil would work so much better because you've got these wide open planes that allow you to see further and drop that angle even more. But the way I like to see photography and the lens choices based on destination and based on your capacity to utilize that.
Richard:There are so many great products out there. I love my 400 2.8. And the reason why I bought the 400 2.8 is because I can put a 1.4 times converter on it when I go to the Serengeti and I've then effectively got almost 600 f4. Or when I'm in the Saabi Sands or in Botswana and I don't need that sort of length. I take that often. I've got huge amounts of light and great bokeh, but it's a huge lens and on its own it's weighing almost four pounds, so you need to be physically fit to be able to carry that. Without that ability to do that, it's all good to have the gear, but no idea, that's not gonna get you anywhere. In that case. Some of these bridge cameras are doing incredible work in terms of that. I love the Sony RX10 Mark IV and I'm waiting desperately for the Mark V to come out because I think it is such a powerful camera. It goes all the way to 600 f4. It's in a tiny body that anyone can handhold, and that effective distance and that beautiful f4 gives us a little bit of bokeh. It's got great image quality. So, depending on where you are on that scale, it's always a good thing to think of.
Richard:And if you're spending the money that some of these safaris cost, if you do have gear say you're traveling with 100, 400, because that's the lens you've got, and you're spending 20,000, 30,000 on a trip isn't it worth going out if you have the capacity to then rent a 600 f4 because you're going to the Serengeti. You don't have to go spend 10 grand on buying one. You can spend a grand or two on renting one for that time and ensuring that the people you're traveling with have the ability to bean bags or the gimbal heads for you to be able to control that and get the most out of a lens like that. You can still bring your 100, 400 should it not work, but you can at least buffer yourself and really extend yourself each time you go out and then you go to the gorillas and you say, cool, I'm gonna rent a 70 to 200 or a 135, 1.8, just as something completely different. You know how can you push your creativity by taking these lenses on.
Court:Love that. Awesome, awesome advice. And for those that didn't get a chance to write that down, the Sony RX10 Mark IV. I'm gonna echo Rich's thoughts there. I've had numerous guests in Africa and Borneo and Alaska, you name it. Bring this camera and it is awesome. It's really impressive. You don't have to change lenses. It's yeah, it's a 24 to 600.
Court:I actually didn't know it was F4 at 600, which is stunning. That in itself makes me think, geez, maybe I should look further into this one, but it's really cool. It's really one of a kind. It's been on this Mark IV version, which Mark IV just means like the fourth iteration of it for years now, which is anomalous for the camera world. So I mean, I'm personally expecting the Mark V any day now. Rich may know more about that than I would. We'll kind of get to his Sony connections here, maybe a little bit. But yeah, super cool camera there. And then I love to hear you talk about the 400 2.8. It's funny. I rarely see that out in the field. I rarely see it on Instagram. I don't hear much about it. I oftentimes see the 500 F4, the 600 F4, the 300 2.8, but long, long time that has been like my dream lens. I don't own it, but if I were to be in a Safari type setting, as much as Rich would, I would say it's a worthy investment, very worthy. So you love that.
Court:Have 400 2.8, yeah like because you can instantly pop on a moderate teleconverter and basically get to 600. So that's super cool. I think a lot of people when they do have the point in their photo career or their travel career and or the means to do it, it's oftentimes a choice between those big primes, right, the 300 2.8, the 400 2.8, the 500 F4, the 600 F4. And so you're thinking the 400 2.8 is your choice. They're all relatively similar weights, the 300's notably less, but more or less big old bazookas, lots of telephoto power, super big apertures or awesome low light and bokeh. 400 2.8 is your choice. Yeah, Rich.
Richard:Yeah, I just like it because of those variances, because I can effectively, like I said, 1.4 teleconverter, two times teleconverter, and then I'm at 800 F5.6. You've got all this movement. It's also that tiny bit lighter and tiny bit smaller than the 600. And that size difference. When I'm traveling and putting stuff in a bag, I can carry my 400 2.8 in my Peak Design travel bag and walk with it on the plane, and that makes all the difference too, to be able to carry it on and keep it with you. You don't wanna have to carry the clunky bag that comes along with it.
Richard:The only thing that comes with a prime, the challenge that comes with a prime is understanding how much it's gonna change your photography, because you cannot zoom, so your creativity when you have a 100 to 400, 200 to 600 doesn't matter the variable lens that you have, but being able to move back and forth makes a big difference.
Richard:In this case you actually have to move the vehicle back in order to get that space, or you're that close that you're now shooting portraits or more artistic stuff to be able to work with that. And in order to balance that out, I always have two bodies, so I'll have a second body with a 70 to 200. In case I need to, I'm too close or I'm outside of the range of that lens, then I can change and be able to shoot something wider and still have the effective use of it. But that all comes in, and then we talk about the Sony again and bring back the bridge camera, even the cannons that have these same bridge features that have long lenses. But when you want to, you can zoom out and get to a point that's far more advantageous to get and make a photograph, make something pretty, Love it.
Court:Yeah, what a killer combo 4028 and 70 to 208. Well, you heard it from Rich. That is his go-to safari combo. I couldn't agree more. That is an awesome setup. Then you mentioned a 1.4 extender. I haven't spoken a lot about extenders on this podcast. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Yay, nay, obviously you're in support of them. Are they ubiquitous, like, do you use them all the time? Are there certain cases? What are your thoughts?
Richard:So teleconverters are interesting. They've been a dividing factor for years, years and years and years. I think the first iterations of them were always an extra piece of glass that suffered an image somewhat and people were going well, is it really worth putting it on? A lot of the times now even that question comes in because we have these high megapixel cameras that okay, if I'm not that close, I can just crop in and I'm still at 30 megapixels or 24 megapixels. But I've found that the new generations of these teleconverters are incredibly sharp. There's almost zero loss in image quality across the way, especially with the mirrorless iterations of it.
Richard:I think with the mirrored versions when we were DSLR there were definite cons to it, but now it makes sense the only thing that really has to be thought of. And it works well on a 2.8, but it doesn't work well on a 100, 400, or 5.6. Because the moment you drop that on, you're not just getting closer but you're shutting that aperture down. And light is such a key thing in wildlife photography. We're always trying to get as much light as fast as shutter speed to freeze the action, to be in control of that situation, and the moment you put that converter on, you are stifling that ability to get more light. So it is a balance. It's a complete balance. That's why I find with 400, 2.8, it works beautifully. 100, 400, it doesn't even pack in my bag. I don't even bring it close because by the time I get there I'm at f9 and I'm out of the gap.
Court:Yeah, back in the day when I used to shoot a lot with the 7200, 208, I thought you know this might be the best kind of wildlife combo Get a 7200 and a two times converter and that way I can get a 400 f5, 6. I dropped that like a bad habit. It was so soft, like I might as well just shoot with the 7200 and crop in. It was so disappointing. But I love to hear what you say about the new muralist iterations. That gives me a lot of hope. And, of course, for those in the audience, anytime you use a teleconverter or tele extender tomato tomato on a prime lens you're in a way, way better shape Zoom lenses. Just they don't really behave very well but teleconverters. So I continue on this lens and gear thing.
Court:I remember seeing a photo from you, rich. Oh, I see a lot of photos from you, but a particular one of chimpanzee. I'm pretty sure it was in Kabali, uganda, and I was looking at like your shot settings and I saw you're shooting with a 135 1.8 lens and I'm like, what is this guy doing? He's using a wedding photographer lens on an epic chimp track. Of course the photo is stunning. Talk to me about that, like 135 1.8. Is that a routine lens you bring with you just because of how unique it is, or what's what's going on there?
Richard:So, again, I'd mentioned a little bit earlier that every time you go out with a new lens, you're allowing a new perspective, a different way to view the world. And the thought was well, I'm shooting our close cousins and this is a portrait lens, so why can't they be a portrait? On top of the fact that it is so dark in the jungles that trying to shoot over 200th of a second and you're fighting. So having a 1.8 is incredibly advantageous, but shooting with that lens and its prime one. And I'd shot for years with the 70 to 200. So I had the same images over and over again, each time still the same gorilla or same chimpanzee with the same perspective, and the moment I put a new lens on, it changed everything.
Richard:So with my ambassadorship with Sony, I got to test different things out. So it was a case of I'm in the prime seats to be able to say, oh, I'd like to test that one out, can I have that for a week while I go to the gorillas and chimps and have a shoot with that and I loved it, I loved it, I loved it. I haven't put it permanently in my bag because it's an expensive lens, but it's a nice one to toy around with, and I don't think it's the last time I'll go. My next one I actually want to fiddle around with is a 50mm f1.2.
Richard:Again very prime, very portrait-based low light, shallow depth of field, good bokeh, and see what I get out of the the gorillas and chimps. With that. Again, slightly wider, create more jungle shots, but with the shallow depth of field and speed to be able to freeze the action. So it's always a consideration how can I change what's going in front of my camera to change the perspective of what my view is going to see when they look at the photo on Instagram or on any form of media?
Court:Heck. Yeah, I love it and it was a stunning photo. We'll provide links to his Instagram where you can see that photo and many others. Yeah, it was just. It was stunning, it was. It was a portrait.
Court:And the cool thing is, you know, we were kind of dogging some of the wildlife portraits on the Serengeti and whatnot. When you're in that dense forest of Kabali, there is no mistaking you were in the legit jungle. I mean, there's vegetation and leaves everywhere. You can't mistake that. And that's also not to say. You know, wildlife portraits are fantastic wherever you go. We're really talking about thinking outside the box here. But that lens super awesome. Love to hear it. Okay, so another, another big place, and then, you know, this will sort of be our last little foray on lenses and gear. But gorilla trekking what's your go-to lens for gorilla trekking? What do you? What do you have on your? Your camera, as you, you know, drop your bags off with the, with the trackers, and you head into that last hundred yards. You're stepping over vines. You know, you got that anticipation, no matter if it's the hundred time you've done it. You've got a camera, a lens on and maybe a lens in your pocket. What do you have?
Richard:So my go-to is a 70 to 200, 2.8 mm, that variability of being able to go a little bit wider and have the portrait ability of the 200 and get a bit closer. Without a doubt that lens was it was almost built to go shoot primates, but in that same setting the lenses are so important, but how you strap them to you is so important too. And having a good strap to be able to put that camera around you and tuck it behind you. Because you're in a forest environment, you're walking between things, like you're saying, you're stepping over vines, we're in windy and penetrable forest they didn't call it in penetrable for nothing and I think the the way you go in and the preparation that you have, not just with how you're gonna shoot but how you're gonna carry, I very often would take a second body. Or I will take one lens and one body and focus one track just in one dimension, and then the second track.
Richard:I may then go okay, cool, I'm going to take the 16 to 35 mm and shoot uber wide and wait for gorillas who may walk past me to get down low. Shoot up creates a different atmosphere again, just changing the perspective and pushing myself. For a first time at 70 to 200 straight away. If you're doing four tracks, then I'd say, okay, one of them, be out there, throw it all out there, leave your 70 to 200 behind, take a lens that's gonna challenge you creatively and throw yourself in the in in that pot and see where it comes out. And but yeah, it's a. It's a very fascinating choice of stuff. Like I said, the 50mm is now my next one. I want to play with the 135mm I've used before. I've taken a 400mm in there, which was very interesting, but a lot to carry and the porters look at you funny when you bring them a bag that weighs 10 pounds to then carry Gorilla eyelashes.
Court:Yes, exactly, that's, that's fantastic. Are you ever using your, your iPhone, your smartphone, when you're in there?
Richard:All the time, all the time. Video, the, the, the iPhones offer so much, or the phone photography is so spectacular at the moment. It gives you the ability to video and the video quality on them is spectacular. For those close-up situations or if I need to jump to a wide angle, I can quickly drop in there, and I'm often taking photos of guests with the, with the animals, with the, with the phones, so that I can share those memories with them too, because very often, as a photographer, we're caught in a position where we are taking the photographs and we have none of ourselves doing what being there. So I love, I love capturing people and the situation so that they, too, have these memories to take back with them and just enjoy the situation.
Court:So I want to zoom out here. I guess pun intended there or we'll. We'll go to the 30,000 foot level here and talk. I want to talk a little bit about your photo style. I you know, the more I see photographers, other photographers, the more I'm seeing distinct styles, very specific characteristics. We have some folks that do a lot of editing. We have some folks that are going more for a purist or or very, in the moment, minimal editing style, and this, really this question, isn't so much about editing as it is your overall style when you, when you create a photo, everything from setting the photo up to dialing the settings to getting it to the final version. What is the rich digivaya photo style and why? What's behind all that?
Richard:you know, since the moment I picked up a camera and started studying what it is to be a photographer, and this question of what's your style? How do you get to that style? I have always been very much a documentary style photographer, but I've dabbled in so many different areas I've done portrait photography, I've done architectural photography, I've done macro photography and the use of all of these different skills starts to hone and change the way you perceive a photo or perceive how you're going to portray it, and I'm a big fan of making photographs, so style is not key for me. I I completely understand what you're saying and there's so many photographers that I can go who. That's his style. I can see the photo. I don't need to look at the name. I know who the photographer is.
Richard:For me, it is about telling stories. We as guides on top of photographers as we were talking about biologists and expedition leaders first, with our photography, following in the footsteps of everything. For me, for people to understand the plight of the animals, the incredible understanding of behavior and how that's put out. I want to show people that. I want somebody to look at a photograph and feel what it felt like to have a lion right there to see a gorilla yawn right next to you, to be part of that situation, because there's so many people that will never get to see them in person. The closest they will get to see them is either in a zoo or in a photograph. And without educating those people, what is the point? How are we going to save those animals if those people who never see them don't love them? So I would like to connect people to those beautiful places that I'm so privileged to get to and let them experience them too, through a cell phone or through a computer screen or a video, and that is a big part of it. I think video, too, has become a huge part of my way forward, and I've been influenced very heavily to push towards it, because there's so many stories that can be told with video that can't be told by camera, and vice versa.
Court:Yeah, you brought up the idea of conservation, the weaving of the two together, and that's something I view personally is very, very important in my work. I know you do as well. I want to come back to that. But you hit on something that I think you might help shed some light on, which is the storytelling aspect. I think most photographers, especially those that have been doing it for a while or view themselves as a bit more serious or go on at least a trip or a couple trips a year. They know storytelling as a part of it. But I for one think it's probably the most abstract thing to teach, to teach in a classroom setting or various ways.
Court:But I wonder if you could help kind of walk us through your mindset Like you might even think of a recent situation where you rolled up on an animal in Saudi sand or elsewhere and talk to me a bit about what's going through your mind in more or less setting up for the shot specifically with a storytelling element. You alluded to it a little bit with behaviors and, of course, the environment. I think your wise words on photographing wildlife in landscapes versus strictly portraiture I think it taps on that as well. But I love to hear your thoughts, your methodology, almost your workflow. You roll up on an animal on an African safari and you're thinking, storytelling what's going through your mind, and feel free to fabricate a wildlife encounter situation as you wish, but specifically with how can people start basically doing the same, rolling up on an animal, whether it's on an African safari, whether it's elsewhere in the world, and how do they begin that moment with storytelling in front of mind?
Richard:That's such a great question and I think, as you had pointed out, it's such an elusive thing to try and put in your brain and put forward. I think the more times you've been in a situation or done something, the clearer your objective becomes in the story. And I don't even have to fabricate much of a story, because I actually had one on our last trek in Rwanda in December. We'd walked in one of the gorilla families that actually left the forest and they were feeding on eucalyptus outside of the forest. And this is clear human-animal conflict. It's clear that the space in the forest is not enough and they're coming out to get something else and the drive of conservation is to create enough space for them so that they can breed successfully. So we have less interaction with people and ensure that people's livelihoods aren't influenced by the wildlife. So we minimise that contact and we walked into the situation. The whole family was walking around and I could see the volcanoes of Volcanoes National Park in the background and I thought to myself the photo I want here is to show one of the gorilla with the volcano, because it's showing habitat, it's showing space, it's the greatest opportunity I'm going to have, because they were on a hillside on the edge of a hillside and I wanted that in the background, and the volcano was a little covered. And, as an added bonus, there was a forest expansion portion that had been bought out by WWF, right behind where the gorillas were, and it's just like here's the story. This is the full story. They're out of the forest, there's the expansion, you can see the rows of bamboo that had been planted and the volcanoes in the background, and so that was the photo I was setting out to try and capture One, hopefully a silverback, because he has the prowess, the strength, the leadership, the wow factor that comes along with it.
Richard:It's like shooting a male lion versus a lioness. A lioness is really beautiful, but you throw the mane in there and it suddenly becomes something more, and eventually I went off. The guest were very comfortable where they were. I made sure everything was set and the guides because I've been there so much, let me roam a little bit more and I followed the second silverback. He went down a little bit and he sat down and he was overlooking the WWF field, with the volcano in the background and the angels were singing above me and I didn't know what to do with myself, but I got really low to make him look big. He sat down. I put him on the right hand side, looking in towards the photo, so the composition becomes a huge part of that storytelling. And then the aspects flowing through because I'm shooting with a wide angle, I've got a little bit more depth of field, which gives us a little bit more to the photo and being able to flow through it.
Richard:It was this really really powerful image that came out of it and I was really excited by that because it's telling a story that I wish to impart on people, and when we are looking at people who don't get to do this very often, having a guide like yourself or myself go in there and be able to plant seeds of ideas is a great way to do that, to start their thought process, saying think about, when they do this, what is the story that's going to come with. The other way I like to do it is, if I'm going to a new place, is I research photos from that place. I want to see what the place looks like. So I can already start forming those stories in my brain, and I might take 10,000 photographs on a trip, but I'll narrow it down to the ones that tell me stories. That will give me 200 images of that, and I'm not taking 10,000 different images.
Richard:I'd rather take 1,000 photographs of that one gorilla looking out in different ways, so that at the end I can say oh, there wasn't enough depth of field there, so I added a little bit more here, or I took some away there, or I went a bit wider so that I can ensure that when I get back to my editing process that I can recreate what my eyes saw. And that's what I want out of the Lightroom experiences to recreate what my eyes saw. Sometimes we tweak a little bit past to get a little bit more creative, but for the most part, for me it's the recreation. Our eyes are the best cameras in the world. Our memories need to be held within that camera, and that's what I'm doing with a camera.
Court:Amazing. I hope you have just inspired me and opened my mind to at least for me kind of a new way of thinking about incorporating the storytelling, which is you have to well, I want to say have to. That's very definitive. But you will benefit from going into a trip, a photo session, with an understanding of what the stories are first. Right. So rather than just getting walking up to a place or rolling up into wildlife and saying, well, what can I make of all this that tells a story, you're going another level and obviously you understand the world, wildlife and relationship. You understand the human wildlife conflict. You understand a lot of this stuff which is very, very innate to who you are.
Court:But for other people out there, those in the audience, what a cool lesson, so powerful, to think about going into a trip, going into a day, photographing in gosh your own literal or metaphorical backyard and researching the stories that exist there to then tell them through your artistic vision. That is awesome, awesome advice. I really love that. So fantastic, thank you. So. Thank you so much for sharing that. So I want to come back to the idea of conservation. I'm a conservation photographer. You're a conservation photographer. I think a lot of folks in the audience that I think would love to and be very empowered by using their photography for conservation. Could you tell me a little bit about how you're currently doing that and also maybe some advice to folks that want to know how to either start their own novel quests on that or maybe advice that things that you're not doing but other people could consider how do you weave, and how should others weave, conservation and photography together?
Richard:I think, first off, anyone going on a trip like this and going to take photographs is already actively partaking in the conservation effort Because of the fact that we're giving money to local communities. Yes, it's a capitalist system, but we need to be able to feed money into a situation like that to make it viable. If something doesn't have an economic value, it's going to fall apart. So just by being there, you're already having an effect on conservation. You're growing that point and making the wild world a better place. So that's the first part. Second part is figuring out how you wish to do it, and this is always the question that I ask somebody when they say okay cool, what camera should I buy? What is the purpose of your photograph? Are you taking the photograph to gain memories for yourself, in which case your cell phone is going to be a great thing? Are you looking to print a few photographs and put them up on a wall? I've recently dived into the digital photo frame world and it blows my mind because suddenly I have 5,000 family photos that I haven't looked at in years and years and years, which are rotating on a little screen, and my kids are absorbed in that. So my next step is okay cool. I want to get one of those nice big TVs like the frame that Samsung makes, and then have my best images go through that. Then I don't have to have one print. I can have 100 prints that rotate every six hours. So that's the next level. I'm getting my enjoyment out of my images and other people that come within that proximity also get it All. We start pushing it out to social media, which a lot of people are on, and we get lost in this world of how we become relevant in that world. It's an irrelevant place that people are trying to get hundreds and thousands and millions of likes and followers and everything that does not change your social standing. It really is about the people you impact within. Impact within that crowd of people that see your images and take in what you're saying, and it's not just about the art of photography, it's about the story you tell with it. What have you learned when you're photographing that thing?
Richard:A lot of my push at the moment is doing conservation activities and trying to get people to be hands-on in conservation so that they get to experience that they know that the dollars that they've spent, they're physically imparting that awesomeness onto this animal. You're helping it in a physical way and, at the same time, getting cool, different images. Thirdly, and this is my latest attempt is now to create a book, a self-published book, which for profit or not for profit doesn't make a difference. It's a challenge for myself to share these images in print, because seeing it on a screen and seeing it on a piece of paper and I'm looking in the background of what you've got behind you I know the spaces, I've seen all of those things with the Madagascar stuff but seeing it on a canvas or on a piece of paper changes the view of that photo, and we've become so digital that we just get stuck behind a screen and it doesn't give the same feeling as paging through a book. So that's almost the next step to it.
Richard:And then, if you really want to throw it out there, you find worthy causes that will then give you the ability to maybe auction off a photograph for a specific conservation event that you wish to contribute towards. And that's where you're now taking extra money on top of all the other things you've done in order to make a difference. And it all is within your sphere of influence. You have to find your sphere and where you are at and how you do that. All photos may just be shown to your friends and that's enough for them to go on a trip to be experienced, and you've already added to conservation by the fact that they are going on that same trip.
Court:Yeah, there's a great, I guess, combination of quotes that I often say that you cannot save what you do not love and you cannot love what you do not know. So I think photographers, especially folks that are trying to get into conservation photography, they think a little bit beyond the obvious. They try to think like you know what you're talking about, like the auctions, the donations of photos and all that, and those are fantastic and they're absolutely the next level, but sometimes people don't give enough credit to the idea that your photographs get other people to know things and then to love things, to then save things. So I think that that's one of the more obvious yet more powerful ways photographs can impact conservation across the world. I want to move on to a couple other things, a little bit different topics here.
Court:You have achieved something quite unique, I think, in the photographic world, which is your relationship with Sony. You are an ambassador you mentioned that earlier and I think that a lot of photographers out there in the audience would, of course, benefit from and would love to know you know how can they link up with camera gear companies? Obviously, the number of companies that manufacture and fabricate actual cameras is finite and those are more competitive, but there are a lot of other groups out there. Do you have any advice for people of how to get linked up with them? You know, is it as simple as putting together a portfolio and putting a little pitch deck in line, or is it more luck in right time, right place? What has your experience been and what would you advise others to do?
Richard:So I would first off go that there's a bit of luck and a bit of work involved in everything. Knowing the right people and the right person to chat to and being able to put your foot in the door and get that work in front of people is lucky. I was, my flow was very lucky in the fact that the people I knew put me forward and assisted me in getting to that point. So I was first an icon ambassador because of my relationship with my lodge that I worked with for many years and they put me forward. Then I did a photo talk for them and they were like, okay, cool, let's get this guy on board. And then I changed to Sony and they the people who were bringing in the Nikon were bringing in Sony. And then they helped me swap over and I just kept relationships. So it was all about relationships. What people don't understand is that very often we all want this cool stuff that comes with it, but they also want something in return. There's a little bit of feedback. I had to give a certain number of images across to Sony. I had to give. I have to give appearances to them, I have to give workshops. I have to bring things to the table to bolster the brand. And, yes, you get paid for it or you get paid in kind for it, but it's not always as glamorous as what people perceive it to be. It's a great ego boost, cool, pat yourself on the back, it's great. Sony wants to see my stuff. I'm very lucky that I had it, since I've moved to Portugal. I had to give up my ambassador ship because I couldn't fulfill my duties in South Africa. And again it's that I'm aligned to the brand because I really believed in what they were producing. And when I jumped on board with Sony, I wanted to get in on the bottom rung and was just very lucky to get through that stage and become an ambassador and get to experience things, and for one, it got me through COVID because guiding stopped, so that was my sole form of income, was trying to be creative for that.
Richard:But it's not always the be all and end all. It is an ego boost and people are searching for these things to say, oh, peak design gave me this for free, because I have a following of this. It's nice to get stuff for free, but they expect something in return. So figure out how you can offer them something that will bolster their brand and they'll be far more amenable to you assisting them. A portfolio of images does one thing, but starting to create content and going okay, cool, I got DJI Mike, this is these are the things I use. Blah, blah, blah Court. You've got an epic podcast that we're sitting chatting on now. If, at the end, you say this was shot on XYZ, people start noticing that and the brands start coming to you. Everyone's trying to bang down the doors of the brands to get something for free. It's the people that are actually doing stuff that the brands come looking for you, not the other way around. So how can you add value without expecting anything in return? That is so good.
Court:I had no idea what you were gonna say, but that is just a brilliant, brilliant point, one that is kind of obvious in some ways, but also very novel and very eye-opening in others so fantastic. On a similar front, I'd be remiss if I didn't chat about your social media following and your social media presence. I think it's something that's just actually fantastic to your personal mission of showcasing the wild world and getting folks to know things, to love things, via a very, very popular platform. I wonder if you could share a little bit of thoughts and maybe words of wisdom there for young or new photographers out there that wish to use social media the Instagram, the YouTube, others to grow their following, but also to do so in the right way, to do so with a greater purpose in mind of getting people to again know and love this natural world, to save what we have and protect it.
Court:For a long time, you alluded to it a little bit earlier. Something that I've always read and also believed about. It's about how you impact those individual people in the crowd. Of course, you have more or less hordes coming through to see your photos and some of them like them, but then it's that very filtered out, distilled amount of people where you have a really big impact. Those might be the people to focus on, but I also don't wanna put words in your mouth. What is your approach to social? Maybe a few words on how you got to be where you're at and what your thoughts are.
Richard:So, again, social media is an interesting. It is a platform, it is a tool that a photographer or videographer gets to use to put things out into the world and, in my opinion, it is about the value that you add to the viewer's life that makes the difference. I've had a few videos that went uber viral. We're talking 100 million views viral. That naturally throws likes and follows and everything on it. That number is very arbitrary because it's fickle. People are following you for the next crazy thing, the next time a gorilla beats his chest or a lion runs and jumps on something.
Richard:That's not what we're looking for. It's about the photos and the videos that people get to read the content, those that actually sit with your content and go through it. And how do you add value to that? And my value proposition, as my time's gone on, has been let's try to go viral, let's go put stuff up, put stuff up and then, as you go through that and it doesn't add the value that you expected to. So the thought process has changed to how can I give people more value and interact better with the people that I do want to interact with, not the people that are going? Oh, my goodness, get out of there. You shouldn't be in that space, because they have absolutely no idea or are even willing to embrace the thought of what was going on in the video.
Court:Yeah, that is excellent. I love that. Well, rich. Thank you so much I want to. So obviously fantastic advice, so many gems in this talk today. People, no doubt, are falling in love with you as well and they wanna know where to find you. Where can we direct people to get more of Rich DeGurvea out in the world?
Richard:So I have on my Instagram handle is Richard DeGurvea, same on TikTok. We're on YouTube and my company, arcearth, where we're just trying to create more conservation driven safaris, and we're just out there. I have a photographic website to buy prints, but again, it's not what it's about. It's really I just I wanna meet cool people who wanna learn and if you've got questions about this stuff, I'm happy to entertain them and help people grow, because I love seeing people love wildlife and love photography and grow with it as they're going along.
Court:Rich, you're so generous with your time and humble. I am humbled by you. Thank you so much for joining us today. I will put all of those references, all those spots in the show notes. So you can be, but I clicked away from more time with Rich.
Richard:Rich once again thank you for joining. Thank you, Kourt. Thanks for having me. Man, it's always a pleasure to chat and I'm gonna see you in a couple of months. I'm at your side of the world, so I'm sure I'll be bumping into you and it'll be great to share another chat. I hope so.
Court:Well, that was a lot of fun. And what sage advice. Am I right? If you'd like to learn more about Rich, please check out the links in the show notes where I have his websites and social media handles. I also have a few links to recommend gear we spoke of, and if you use these links to purchase gear on Amazon, you are directly helping to support this podcast. So I thank you in advance.
Court:Lastly, don't be a stranger. Keep in touch. If you'd like to email me thoughts and comments on the podcast or ideas for future episodes, please do so at. That's a long email, be ready. Thewildphotographerpodcast. At gmailcom. It's thewildphotographerpodcast. And at gmailcom. If you'd like to see more of my own photography work, please visit courtwailincom. That's C-O-U-R-T-W-H-E-L-A-Ncom, or on Instagram at court underscore wailin. Oh, and I'm also starting to post episodes from the Wild Photographer on YouTube on my channel at courtwailin. You can just search for the Wild Photographer and Courtwailin on YouTube or any of my podcast titles, as I steadily start to upload them. Thanks for checking those out and all of your support thus far. It's a pleasure and until next time, follow us on social media.