The Truth About the Dead Sea Scrolls | Digging Deeper Podcast

It’s very likely that the story you’ve heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls and the young shepherd boy who was chasing the goats… isn’t quite the way it really happened. In this final episode of Season 2 of the Digging Deeper Podcast, Barry and Dan talk with Shebly Kando, the grandson of the famous Khalil Eskander Shahin “Kando”, the antiquities dealer that played a key role in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls after they were find found by Bedouin shepherds, and hear him retell the story of what is considered to be one of the greatest archaeological discoveries of the 20th centuries. 

Discovered in the caves near Qumran, the Dead Sea Scrolls are ancient scrolls that include portions of nearly every book of the Old Testament scriptures, dating back over 2,000 years and dramatically closing the gap between our modern Bibles and their earliest sources. From the handwritten scrolls written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, to the copper scroll and jars (some of which are still owned by the Kando family today), this episode describes the evidence that shows how faithfully the Bible has been preserved across centuries.

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Today on the podcast, we will talk about one of the most well-known and one of the greatest archeological finds of all time. As you join us today, we will talk about how impactful the Dead Sea Scrolls have been. Welcome to Digging Deeper, the podcast where we talk about geography, archeology, people and cultures of the lands of the Bible. By exploring these areas, we hope to broaden your understanding of the biblical narrative. You can learn more about all of us here at Appian Media, and watch our free video series at Appian media.org. Our sponsors for today's episodes are the Sia Bookstore and Sacred Connections. We'll be more than happy to tell you a little bit more about them a little later in our show. When we discuss how the Bible came into its modern form, a question that a lot of people ask is, did the scribes do a good job copying the text? Do our current copies do justice to the original autograph, the one that was actually penned by whether it was Moses or Paul? And for the New Testament? Well, we've got pretty good within 100 years, and it's a very small gap. But for the people said, wow, the master edit text, you know, they were pretty faithful. We know that, right? But that was not written until the first copies we have are 89, 80. Yeah, that's a long time after even Malachi, which was written in 400 BCE. So it seemed insurmountable. There's a huge gap. How do you close that gap? And then there was a chance finding in some jars hidden in some caves that changed it overnight. And that 1400 year gap dropped by 1000 to 1200 years. So, Mary, what are the Dead Sea Scrolls? Well, that's a that's a good question. And I thought what you said was, was absolutely fantastic, because the Dead Sea Scrolls are incredibly important for us to understand, and have confidence in the validity of the text that we read in our Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls were found, in a number of caves, around the Dead Sea. Obviously. That's why they're called the Dead Sea Scrolls. For the most part, centered around a location called Qumran. We think that they were written, by a group of Jews called the Essenes, and they were probably written in the first century BC, around about that, that time. And so that helps us, as you said, to have further confidence in our text, because it took that the last text that we had around 1000 A.D., all the way back down to, the, you know, first century BC. And so now we're within a few hundred years of when the originals were written. And so because of that, we can have, confidence in there. One of the things that, a lot of people are maybe get confused about a little bit is they think that they're purely, pieces of Scripture. And there was a lot of Scripture in there. But it was actually, the scrolls, the about, their way of life, the rules that they lived their life, by the way they conducted their community, things like that. And so it was more than just, sacred pieces of Scripture itself. And so, it was an unbelievable find. And, has, you know, sent shockwaves through the, the biblical community worldwide since. And so, in addition to the sacred scriptures, maybe some hymns and prayers, legal documents. most of them were written in Hebrew, which is, of course, primarily what the Essenes would have spoken. But there are a number of pieces written in Aramaic and Greek, which were obviously very popular languages at the time as well. I remember reading a book on. There was one scroll that was different. It was written on copper. Yeah. And people are. It's a treasure hunt based on reading that. But what typically would these have been written on? What kind of. Yeah, well, most of them were written on parchment. I mean, that was the kind of the common, writing medium of the day. That's what they would have used. And that's what they found with most of these scrolls. They were mostly written in parchment, stored in jars, sealed up for a couple thousand years before they were found. It's a great environment to put them in. Yeah. That's right, that's right. So the question everybody asks, how were they found? Yes. Yeah. Well, I could tell you, but I would rather turn it over to someone who knows the story much, much better. Dan and I have a friend who lives, in Bethlehem. His name is Shibli Cando. And, we'd love for him to tell you the story. Directly. We've been able to get him, on a call, and we're looking for that, and we'll pick up that call with Shibli right after these messages. During the entire history of AP media. We have had a number of companies that reached out asking if they can sell our products. And one of the companies, one of the first ones to contact us was CEI bookstore. PSI bookstore has been in business for over 70 years. They are a nonprofit. They are a religious bookstore and retailer that sells Bibles, books, church supplies, other religious resources. They're located just down the road from us in Athens, Alabama, but they actually serve customers all across the United States. If you're ever in need of any of their wonderful products, we would recommend that you reach out to them. Their website is true books.com. I also want to talk to you about Sacred Connections. It is a safe online space for Christians to connect as well as build meaningful relationships. They have a focus on community and different channels connected to interest groups and events. And so there is something for every user at every life stage right now. If you download the app and you use that code, digging deeper, you will receive a special discount for all the listeners and the Digging Deeper podcast. We invite you to start your journey by going to their website today and learning more. Their address is Sacred connections.com. Now back to our show. And we're going to get to, talk to our good friend Shibley. All right. Dan, today we're we've got a special treat. We're joined by Shibley. Kando is a good friend of both you and, me. He is joining us, from Bethlehem. And so we're thrilled to have him with us. And, but we'd thought we'd ask him a few questions with Shibley. Welcome to the podcast. Well, it's a great pleasure to be on your podcast, guys. And it's an honor. And also, and according to our cultures over here, we can wish you still Merry Christmas, because in the 1930s, Christmas Day is going to be okay. All right. Well, if you don't mind, let's just open it up by asking you about you, your family, your your wife or children. Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Where were you born? But I'm born in Bethlehem. Raising Bethlehem. Get my education in Bethlehem. And, my family too. belong to the candle family. And the candle family is known, you know, by whoever knows us as involvement, of my grandfather with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, as he's the one who wrote the world attention to this discovery. And, from there, you know, it started to circulate information with our people, and it ended up with me. And I mean, you guys, which is. Well, it's been a pleasure for us as well. Tell us a little bit more about that story. Tell us. Tell us the story of, how the dead Sea Scrolls were found and your grandfather's involvement and all that. Well, the story actually is, kind of. It holds like the Swiss cheese in whatever. No, you know, publicly and what we've written in so many books and so many, documentaries about it, burying your is maybe when you came, you heard something different than what it's written, you know, and and that's why when our brothers and sisters, when he used to hear that they were looking at surprised because, first of all, if you say the shepherds wanted to go listen to their lost image and found that and caved those stone, which doesn't make any sense. Actually, when you say shepherd boy, our country over here in our country is like when you say shepherd and cowboys in the U.S., okay, it's a nickname. Yeah. For a person who work in whatever, you know, as a cowboy or shepherd boy or whatever boy, or a good boy. So, those guys actually, most of their time in the wilderness, whatever they used to bring to my granddad to chicken. And sometimes my grandfather used to send them because my grandfather also, since he was a kid, is they had Kellogg. You can't kill his artifacts. He was so deeply in love with this type of things, which it could be used for in such a kind of experience. So basically it took him over two years to convince those two brothers to even approach those caves, because in the mentality there in the country and issues that they were afraid, they were scared that there might something be hidden in those caves other than animals, which it's called the gene. So the gene, the back goes to that spirit. So after two years, they were able to finally he was able to convince them they reached. They throw the stone back up, I mean, before it comes out to see it's safe, secure. They went inside. He saw a few things. But what caused the rise? What was in the wall of that key? Which there was square holes. And each hole there was black. So they came back to my grandfather. And this is something we should admit. That's where the truth that neither my grandfather was expecting to find something like this, the piece of leather he was able to tell. It's old. Yes, but is it authentic or not? Is not blue. For five months. Okay. Cautiously, carefully. Tell the inscriptions on that piece of leather that here and look how God works. You know, it's it's. We always say everything that that can happen or nice. That's word or nothing out of the whole mystery or whatever. They grab us from the very few which it was written. His mother from the ancient fact, which I'm sure you can use something biblical digging in the Bible, finding out that's referring to the Bible to see what I'm from. Finding out that that big, thick, dry leather. It's almost the whole book of Daniel. So for him, the biblical issue was more important than the archeological issue. Yes, we should get back to the caves and read them whatever they can find. So from 1947 till about 52 53, something like this, over 80% from what they found in the caves, and they're showing it to so many archeologists, professors, clergy, whoever can say anything about it. And the only people who really had some kind of idea, but also and you what they are, but also they have the same suspicions about the scientific patient or the Dominican priest because they have, the biblical school, you know, over which they were all like geologists, right? Yes. Same issue. If it is authentic or not, to 1858, when he gets to our bishop to take it outside the country, to start showing it to other people. So I travel in so many countries in the Middle East and in Europe with the United States and through Princeton University, the medical researchers and the years went by. Everybody then started coming after my granddad to buy and to get them to, you know, deal with him about the scrolls, which he kept refused selling or giving it to anyone. Still, 1967, after the 60s or this was doing on display in this sort of museum, except few pieces, couple pieces which he kept him as a member of back of Kingdom. Which one of them you already. So guys in the shop. The jars? Yes. The other one is the second jar, which is going to be displayed in my shop, God willing, in the coming months. Oh, that's wonderful, wonderful. So, your family once your family, you know, handed over the Dead Sea Scrolls to the authorities. how did the the nation of Israel. Thank you. What did they give you or your families for that? Well, what they give my grandfather, actually, yes. Big question. 14 days in jail. Well, that wasn't quite the answer. But, we know that you, Unfortunately, and I know. Yeah. Because, what's happened is, since we read in the newspaper and what I did the first couple of days right before the Wailing Wall, even praise was the name of the Lord came to us living 14, 15 hours, negotiating with him to try to convince him to deliver peacefully. Or just like this. Of course, he refused. As I always say, make it easier to think for 14 days. Confiscate everything from, yeah, whatever he was hiding in some of the friends, you know, Jerusalem and and so they confiscated basically everything you know from him. And the only compensation he has of plus like to compensate him for, putting him in jail for two weeks. Yeah. I don't know exactly the exact amount. So it was the license to be with antiquities because it was prohibited and allowed to. And he became the first official licensee here in the history of this country. And this profession still goes in the family from generation to generation. Well, that's true, Dan and I have been fortunate enough to have been in your store many times. And of course, you and your family continued to run the store. Tell us a little bit about, the, the store itself and, the history of it and, kind of what you're planning in future. Well, the store or the one that you've been in, actually, it's, being built in 1999, unfortunately, is saying history repeats itself because that one, the opening of it was October 1999, January 2000, the first by the star. Yes. And today, Christmas. And that took us five years of zero worth. Oh my name you know I, you know came from the family. You know, as you know when the family grown up you have to start looking for your own future for your kids and each one's it's not became a big family in, in the care of the family. So now I started my own shop, you know, and, I put, as I say, all my savings over doing that one and do it in the right way. And the October 20th was supposed to be the old grand opening. Over seven war. Right. Well. Praying that this will end it up soon, because the people, especially the Christians of Bethlehem, are the most who suffer in the whole country. Yes. Other than the innocents that have been gone, Gaza and from the Israeli side or from the Palestinian side, from both sides. But after that, you know, the only people who were really suffering in a bad way are the Christians. And. Yeah. Depends. It's not 100%, 99%. Sure. And tourism cut down. Nobody was expecting something like this. There is no any kind of source of income. The suffered is growing bigger and bigger and bigger. And we have no kind of any legal or social or religious kind of backup that is going to support and help us to stay there. Yeah. And so far as that leads 89 Christian families. They already left. as I said yes it is sad. As I said, and I've been to your shop many times. Tell us about tell us a little bit about that jar that you mentioned earlier that's in the shop. I've been watching from the, that the scrolls been found in. There were five jars in, in the Israeli museum, one in the Vatican. And the candle family. Do with candle family, whatever it is. So is considered the largest, the biggest, and which is this is one of the two jar factory, which we have the it was, you know, always have been. They haven't been confiscated because they were the only two pieces that were displayed. Authorities were obviously looking at it. They were thrown in the kitchen. It's one of the drinking jars that they were coming off with water. And after, like a few years, they found that the missing parts of the excavation, they tried to take it from my grandfather, but they got the relationship started establishing between my granddad and some of the Israeli government, which that's, you know, I love them to keep it. And it became part of my family heritage. And that's why I'm in the shop, which the book of Isaiah were found in it. And the Temple Scroll, the other one which you believe is going to be in my shop, is the one that the book of Daniel and, and, the Trinity, which being found in. Well. That's fascinating. Yeah. Okay. We are actually. Because of the, I don't know, the, the word actually itself. It's it's completely different than before and in so many ways that they don't like the idea of history. They don't like, look at your background that where you come from, what you are and they come up with. And sometimes it's legal, sometimes just to harass you and just to frustrate you, which no, we are having issues and renewing our antiquity license, even with the Palestinian side or with Israeli side, even there are a lot of, yeah, go into computers, which, they are clueless about archeology and about, antique viewing and, but actually they're giving them the what is the purpose behind it? What is the reason? Well, well, I want you to know that, Dan. And, first of all, we appreciate you being taking some time to be with us here on the show. And, we want you to know that you are you and your family are constantly in our thoughts and prayers, as well as all the people over there. And, Keep us all in your prayers, because nothing we need more than this, even the hope that became very how we say it. Not hopeless, but we are doubtful about it. There's a whole. But at least we still have our faith. Please keep us in your prayers. Not just me and my family, but keep all your brothers and sisters in Christ, in the city of Christ, in the city of Bethlehem. You praise, please do. And we will. We will. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. And, Dan and I look forward. Can't wait to see you again soon. Amen. God bless you. God bless us all, our brothers and sisters in the US. We pray for them to pray for all our brothers and sisters. Thank you so much. You too. Thank you so much. Okay. Dan, wasn't that unbelievable? Oh, it was great. I love the fact modern technology. I'm sitting here a couple feet from you. Yeah, and it seems like I'm sitting. Right there next to him. From someone halfway around the world. Well, we we appreciate Shibley, and his time is good to talk to him. So, Dan, just real quick, tell me in your mind. A couple this really significant things that you feel are important about the Dead Sea Scrolls. Just a couple. Well, one is just when we look, they had portions of pretty much every book of the Old Testament, what we would call the Hebrew Scriptures. They didn't have the Book of Esther, but everything else was there. And some of them, it was pretty much the complete book. We think about Isaiah. We think about Daniel. Those are huge scrolls, especially the Isaiah scroll. And even in Daniel, when you look at what we have from a thousand A.D and 80,000, and you look at a thousand BC. Yeah. Or 100 BC, in this case, they line up exactly in Daniel, there's Aramaic and there's Hebrew, and transitions are exactly the same. A thousand wow. And with this gap that now has been just connected. Yeah. They date actually, paleo graphically, which is people who actually study handwriting and how they go through the years. I didn't realize that was actually a really. Yeah. But they can date these and there's three groups they date them to like 250 BC to 150, 150 BC to 30 and then 30 BC to 8070. The writing style changed in each of those groups, and so they know during which of these three times exactly. you can look and realize the scribes were meticulous. They did an amazing job accurately copying and making sure that what was written is a copy of what exactly was written. Once again, it seems that when the critics of the loudest, the God has something to let us all know that he's in charge and his ways are true and right. No one would have imagined finding documents to prove that 1000 years of scribe's transcriptions were accurate. But in the providence of God, he has had a community of scribes living in a very arid land who put away their writings for the future. As we study the Dead Sea Scrolls, we can trust that our Bible is accurate, as is the words that God wanted us to hear. We know that God, who is faithful in making sure his written word is transmitted correctly. Will also be faithful when he tells us how we can be made right with him and become his adopted children. We serve an amazing God and as such we should always obey him. Spend our time reading, studying, and talking about God's Word. Digging deeper is a production of Appian Media. We're a nonprofit media production company that is 100% crowdfunded. If you are interested in learning more about how you can support Appian Media and our work so that we can continue to create more great and free content, visit us at Appian media.org slash. Listen. If you'd like to contact us, you may reach Barry at Barry Dot right now at Appian Media. For and I am at Dan Kingsley at Appian media.org. We would love to hear from you and answer any questions that you might have. The special thanks to the entire Appian Media team, who are all doing their part to make this a success and a very special thanks, goes out to our supporters and those of you who have listened to this program. Well, that's it for season two. It's been a fun ride, Barry, and a long time coming. So thank you for sitting here. Thank you for your interest in spiritual and biblical things. It's always an honor to sit next to your side. I appreciate it so much. And we are already looking forward to next season. We have a lot of ideas and more interesting insights and discussions on the lens of the Bible we want to bring you. But until then, thank you for listening. To digging deeper.